View Full Version : BvC and BvA
Uchiha Sasuke
18-07-2006, 08:24
I was interested in making a BvC or BvA before ladder ends. But i'm not sure which...
What advantages does a BvA have over a BvC?
What advantages does a BvC have over a BvA?
Which is cheaper to build efficently?
What gear would I use for each?
Both have the same basic style of gameplay... right?
I was interested in making a BvC or BvA before ladder ends. But i'm not sure which...
What advantages does a BvA have over a BvC?
What advantages does a BvC have over a BvA?
Which is cheaper to build efficently?
What gear would I use for each?
Both have the same basic style of gameplay... right?
1. BvA has maximum blocking, giving it easier time versus Bowazons and a possibility to beat other barbs.
2. More life, more Leap, better in killing casters due the these
3. BvC, by far. You need pretty damn much wealth to make a good BvA compared to a good BvC. I have a good BvC, yet I could not make him into even a half-decent BvA, as he would end up with like 5200 life, which is 900 less than my BvC, all for maximum blocking.
4. Do a search for "dumbpig" and "blobguide", and look for threads like: "WW barb guide. short" and "new blobguide", these 2 will be blobs's guides. Also I suggest checking Rom's BvC guide on battle.net forums, the BvC guides on D2jsp, and I will, just to make sure, post my own "brief outline of a BvC" to the end of this post. As for BvAs, it's almost the same, except that you can use a shield and Fortitude. Check Dyn's PvP Guide in the Sticky for more information.
5. They're played very similarly, yes, however on BvA you have to be more careful due to less life.
Stats:
lvl >=90
63 str (if +40 from anni+torch)
47 dexterity (if +40 from anni+torch)
rest vitality
Skills:
20 Leap
20 WW
20 Axe Mastery
20 Bo
5 Nat Res
5-6 Inc Speed
Rest Shout
Pub Gear:
CoA 'BerBer'
Enigma
GriefZ 34/xxx
BeastZ xxx%/+>=36
Arachnid's Mesh
2x Ravenfrosts with 18-20 dex and 240-250 ar
Draculs with 15 str
Triple or double resistance boots with frw and str or dex. In case of double resistances, these resistances should be Fire and Lightning. With Triple Fire, Lightning and Cold.
Highlord's Wrath
2x Dooms
Stash gear:
Fortitude
Widowmaker 'Hel'
2x Angelic rings
1x Angelic amulet
2x fcr rings with >60 mana
Demonlimb
Kiras
Lightning Stack (4 ort armor, 19-20/1x's)
TGod's
Life Tap Wand
Treachery
Hotspurs
Trang Gloves
Arreat's 'ed/ias'
Charms:
Optimal: 33x max/ar/life scs (only if perfect), 4x fhr/allres scs, Annihilus with 20 stats, torch with 20 stats
Very Good: 33x ar/life scs, 4x fhr/resi scs, Annihilus with 19-20 stats, torch with 19-20 stats.
Good: >20x ar/life scs, 4x fhr scs, Annihilus with >15 stats, torch with >15 stats, the spare spots you have you should fill with plain 20 life scs or 20/17s or 20/11s.
Decent: 3x ar/life gcs (13x/3x), 4x fhr scs, rest 20 life scs, torch+anni total stats >30
Poor: None
Very Poor: None
Extreamly Poor: NONE!
Things you want to achieve:
10k ar with the Pub Setup mentioned
>6000 life
20 fcr with pubsetup, 40% fcr available when needed
all res 75
40% frw from Inc speed
Enough lightning resistances to negate a foher when needed
48% fhr breakpoint hit
There's my "brief outline of a BvC", a very basic version of a "guide" in a way. I wrote this after all the BvC guide asking threads, so I just copy-paste this into each of them.
Uchiha Sasuke
19-07-2006, 08:00
I can get all of that except some of the charms and the CoA. The charms... I'll finda way to get those. What about CoA? What's a good replacment for it?
'Ber' 08 gaze on NL is a decent replacement for a CoA.
well if ur struggling with the coa and charms forget the bva imo as u will need good wealth to build this properly and be as affective as possible.
The only reason i choice a BvC is that im not really interested in bvb fights and deslike the stormshield having to carry this. Also u end up with lowish hp.
BvA has the edge when it comes to bvb but will still likey lose to the best bvb.
I can get all of that except some of the charms and the CoA. The charms... I'll finda way to get those. What about CoA? What's a good replacment for it?
Either a 1 socket CoA with a Ber and high-ish DR, or a Ber Vamp Gaze.
'Ber' 08 gaze on NL is a decent replacement for a CoA.
Eh, that's obviously a highly duped item. IIRC that's what they call "pimping of dupes" ? Also, what would be the stats on this one?
Eh, that's obviously a highly duped item. IIRC that's what they call "pimping of dupes" ? Also, what would be the stats on this one?
25 PDR IIRC.
08 Gaze has stats as follows:
8% mana
8% life
100 % ED
15% slower stamina drain
25% PDR
16 MDR
The 25% PDR is the important thing here, though I believe the leech would be useful against druids. Anyhow, add a Ber and you have 33% PDR, which is nice.
Uchiha Sasuke
20-07-2006, 22:00
Err.... Yeah. I'm ladder so no gaze for me.
How bad would it be if I used less dr from something like... say... a ber'd shako? =/
Err.... Yeah. I'm ladder so no gaze for me.
How bad would it be if I used less dr from something like... say... a ber'd shako? =/
mmm. About this bad:
With CoA And Enigma:
6 000 * 0.17 * 0.66 =
673.22
With Ber'ed Shako and Enigma:
6 000 * 0.17 * 0.76 =
775.2
775.2- 673.2=102
However, take into account that this is with the worst possible CoA 'BerBer'. With a perfect one the difference is 153 damage. This is just using a 6k (default tornado damage) as an example. The 153 damage is after PvP penalty. It might look insignificant, but that times 10 makes it into 1530, which by far is _not_ irrelevant.
Use 1 socket Ber CoA or Ber Vamp Gaze. _Never_ use Shako, it simply sucks for DR. 1 socket Ber CoA gives you at least 18%, at most 23% DR, whereas a 'Ber' Vamp gaze gives 23-28%.
Use 1 socket Ber CoA or Ber Vamp Gaze. _Never_ use Shako, it simply sucks for DR.
That's pretty much it.
That's pretty much it.
OT: I think I remember your name mentioned on being a known/good BvC in some post here. Makes me interested. Somehow I got the picture that you equal to the Rom or th3_0n3 on b.net forums. Correct me?
Uchiha Sasuke
21-07-2006, 01:36
Guess I'll be baaling for a while longer. =/
What about BvA? What kind of gear does he use?
Guess I'll be baaling for a while longer. =/
What about BvA? What kind of gear does he use?
it uses pretty much the same gear as a BvC except with the Storm shield added also the use of forti or bvb type armour.
Uchiha Sasuke
21-07-2006, 10:10
it uses pretty much the same gear as a BvC except with the Storm shield added also the use of forti or bvb type armour.
Nevermind about the BvA then. =/ I thought i saw a 75% block pheonix.... but thats not possible which means I hullucinated. Or I was abducted by UFO's or somewhat.
I can't find dumbpig's guide. I found his BvC short guide... but I'm not to fond of it.
no phoenix is crap shield in monarch which most come in it would require 300 ish dex at lvl 90 which will severly cut ur life, not to mention u sacrifice DR from the shield as well meaning u can not wear an arreat in bvb.
Nevermind about the BvA then. =/ I thought i saw a 75% block pheonix.... but thats not possible which means I hullucinated. Or I was abducted by UFO's or somewhat.
I can't find dumbpig's guide. I found his BvC short guide... but I'm not to fond of it.
For dumbpig's earlier guide, search for "dumbpig" and look for "ww barb guide. short". For the newer one, search for "blobguide" and look for "new blobguide".
Why are you not "too fond of it" ?
Uchiha Sasuke
21-07-2006, 17:43
For dumbpig's earlier guide, search for "dumbpig" and look for "ww barb guide. short". For the newer one, search for "blobguide" and look for "new blobguide".
Why are you not "too fond of it" ?
Too short. =/
Hm... It seems BvC is more of a 1v1 build.
Also... would kiras alone be a good helm? Then I'll just go picking on the casters in duels. =/
Too short. =/
Hm... It seems BvC is more of a 1v1 build.
Also... would kiras alone be a good helm? Then I'll just go picking on the casters in duels. =/
Kiras is a bad helm to use in Pubs, as it lacks dr or skills or anything else useful except the resistances.
BvC is _not_ only a 1v1 build, it's a pubkiller. However, in team duels, BvCs can be useful, as they can tank a lot and give their party bo and Leap.
How come you found blobs's guides "too short" ? They tell you exactly what to do and what to use, without too much bull****ting. That's what you should expect from a good guide.
The tone of blob's guide is really inflamatory. I really like th3_on3's guide on bnet forums
The tone of blob's guide is really inflamatory. I really like th3_on3's guide on bnet forums
the_one=rom=deadeye here. His guide is not complete and I think it's got too much babbling. I prefer Luis's version of Blobs's guide, it's short enough yet informative enough.
Uchiha Sasuke
21-07-2006, 20:20
the_one=rom=deadeye here. His guide is not complete and I think it's got too much babbling. I prefer Luis's version of Blobs's guide, it's short enough yet informative enough.
I like babbling though.
But anyways... I think I got a 20dr gaze so I'll socket it with a ber and live with it for a while.
What about charms? You said a few 13 life/13 ar ones were decent with rest as +20. Thats not even 100AR, so how does it help? Just wondering =/
I like babbling though.
But anyways... I think I got a 20dr gaze so I'll socket it with a ber and live with it for a while.
What about charms? You said a few 13 life/13 ar ones were decent with rest as +20. Thats not even 100AR, so how does it help? Just wondering =/
Charms:
Optimal: 33x max/ar/life scs (only if perfect), 4x fhr/allres scs, Annihilus with 20 stats, torch with 20 stats
Very Good: 33x ar/life scs, 4x fhr/resi scs, Annihilus with 19-20 stats, torch with 19-20 stats.
Good: >20x ar/life scs, 4x fhr scs, Annihilus with >15 stats, torch with >15 stats, the spare spots you have you should fill with plain 20 life scs or 20/17s or 20/11s.
Decent: 3x ar/life gcs (13x/3x), 4x fhr scs, rest 20 life scs, torch+anni total stats >30
Poor: None
Very Poor: None
Extreamly Poor: NONE!
Where do I recommend 13ar/13 life scs? The lowest 3 130+/30+ ar/life gcs, each of those gives about 760 AR while you lose 71 life compared to 3x 20 life scs. I myself use 126/35, 130/31, 128/38 gcs IIRC. I also got a 1/12/5 max/ar/fhr sc, and a 20/33 life/ar sc, and a 5/15 fhr/ar sc. I got 9377 AR with the recommended pub setup. My ravens are 247/18 and 241/20.
Uchiha Sasuke
21-07-2006, 20:47
Oh, I see... Gc. =/
Which would be a good place to find them... if you know.
And how expensive are they to buy?
Oh, I see... Gc. =/
Which would be a good place to find them... if you know.
And how expensive are they to buy?
I paid a soj each, on EUSCNL. Soj being the european currency. Example: 1 soj -> Enigma.
Uchiha Sasuke
21-07-2006, 20:55
Gah... =/.
Well, I guess thats not TOO bad.
OT: I think I remember your name mentioned on being a known/good BvC in some post here. Makes me interested. Somehow I got the picture that you equal to the Rom or th3_0n3 on b.net forums. Correct me?
That's me. :]
My guide is pretty long winded, yeah. It's because I try to cut down on the amount of typing I'd have to do when someone asks me a question that might not be completely covered by the guide. I did update though, with some minor spelling corrections and chunks of specific dueling info.
That's me. :]
My guide is pretty long winded, yeah. It's because I try to cut down on the amount of typing I'd have to do when someone asks me a question that might not be completely covered by the guide. I did update though, with some minor spelling corrections and chunks of specific dueling info.
What most bothers me in it is the fact that you listed the gear a BvC should use versus a FBer and the gear a FBer most likely uses, yet there's no strategies of any kind. Also some major builds are missing, due to, what you say, "leaving the good ones last" or something among those lines.
Well, it's good to know that we got the best BvCs here on DII.Net, such as Ling, Rom, MCM, Morotsjos, Luis. I wouldn't say that I would be among the best, but I've been spending quite a time on searching for optimal stats and charms setups.
Oh, about the FBer thing - that's the last thing I was putting in right before my net cut out for like 2 months. However, in the last few days I've updated the guide quite a bit, with some of the more common builds you run into, so the guide is getting closer to being done.
most of the barb guides are good, i got my basic idea from blobbs and even bigrobs i think tunners barb.
The only probs with blobbs i found is its a bit out dated also its like he automatically assumes ur good which some of the technical advice given and may be better if it was more broken down for beginners, also not much mentioning on alternative gear.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.