Would this bad manner poison Bowazon work?

[KICKZILLA]

I only got the 1 response... and no follow-ups in my topic here:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=478326

wondering if anyone else had some opinions... i'm basically making her with extra gear i have
thanks

[Omikron8]

considering most bowazons die within seconds against decent duelers/any pally no this would not work except against morons

[KICKZILLA]

you sure? pub games i join with a faith zon in em have always done well...it's just rare to see one with all gg eq, 3x 40/15'ed tiara, 40/15'ed armor, p faith, 36 3/x/x scs, ias kb gloves, etc... <--- there's no way a bowazon like that couldn't clear a room a 30 secs
i'm just wondering if the one i described could do ok

[Ce Olba]

you sure? pub games i join with a faith zon in em have always done well...it's just rare to see one with all gg eq, 3x 40/15'ed tiara, 40/15'ed armor, p faith, 36 3/x/x scs, ias kb gloves, etc... <--- there's no way a bowazon like that couldn't clear a room a 30 secs
i'm just wondering if the one i described could do ok

Not even a Bowazon like that beats a half-decent BvC, I'm 100% confident. Just look at MCM whooping the *what I heard* the best bowazon on that realm. And being supposedly the best bowazon, I bet it's packed with 32020s and 120/45/9x-100, 160/60/9x-100.

And no, a bowazon is by far one of the worst pub pk'ers. No offensive, but there are simply too many characters that beat them. Bowazons are also glasscannons, meaning they deal decent or high damage, but die quickly.

A BvC without Dooms already rapes Bowazons. Now add 1 doom and Grief, that translates into total rapage of a Bowazon.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Not even a Bowazon like that beats a half-decent BvC, I'm 100% confident.
Unless your expectations for a "half-decent bowazon" is very higher than of mine, top Bowers like mentioned can easily beat such BvC's.

Just look at MCM whooping the *what I heard* the best bowazon on that realm. And being supposedly the best bowazon, I bet it's packed with 32020s and 120/45/9x-100, 160/60/9x-100.
Not true. "Best" Bower will probably be stacked with 3/20/5frw's, much more expensive than perfect fine sc's of vita, 120/45/30 frw, and Fort. I have no doubt Mcm can beat any bower in the game, considering 1) his build simply overpowers bowers, 2) he is greatly skilled, and 3) he can afford very effective gear.

And no, a bowazon is by far one of the worst pub pk'ers. No offensive, but there are simply too many characters that beat them. Bowazons are also glasscannons, meaning they deal decent or high damage, but die quickly.
Completely disagree. Firstly, bowers do not have to be "glasscannons". They get +3 Life per 1 in Vit, and there are rare occasional zons with Enigma, life pool, cta, max dr, max res, and go for survivability to sacrifice damage and ias. Secondly, how are there too many chars that can beat them? Compared to uber versatile builds like BvC's yes, but bowers can definitely keep hellofa lot of builds dead before even reaching them. Thirdly, I think 7fpa knockback 7~7.5K ga's is worth to sacrifice survivability.

A BvC without Dooms already rapes Bowazons. Now add 1 doom and Grief, that translates into total rapage of a Bowazon.
Ask yourself, is it fair to compare 2 builds that where one just completely overpowers other simply by its dueling style? That's like saying Windies suck just because by comparing them to Ghostsins.

Unlike what many other people think, my hardly the best 6.7k bower can easily beat 75% Smiters and 90% non BvC Barbs in pub, whether they may have max block or Enigma or w/e. Only real problems I face are bug merc users, windies, trappers, and bvc's. Even then given enough distance beforehand to spam multi I can beat surprisingly a lot of them. Don't let zon's low life deceive you. Stacked FRW / TItan + SS Switch / decent D/A/E zon can take down 1/4 of any melee char's life with just lvl 1 LF run LF run tactic before dying. Casters are generally pretty easy for zons, maybe except big mana pool ES sorcs. HDins, FB Sorcs, Bone necs, you name the rest. I find them to be real easy.

I have played both BvC and Bower, and yes, I would choose BvC for most dueling aspects. Then again, there are few builds that can easily overpower a good BvC, wouldn't you agree?

[Dexterity]

it's a dead class

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

it's a dead class
lol. I can understand Ce Olba, but that comment is just dumb. :wink3:

[Thoridian]

Just look at MCM whooping the *what I heard* the best bowazon on that realm. on b.net*

I bet it's packed with 32020s 3205s
120/45/9x-100120/45/30frw
160/60/9x-100.Fort because you already got enuff ias lol
And no, a bowazon is by far one of the worst pub pk'ers. Not really, a top bowzon can clear pubs and rape preety much everything besides good smiters and bvcs

Then again, there are few builds that can easily overpower a good BvC, wouldn't you agree? There is 1. A top bone necro, goes about 50/50 or more in top BvCs favour.

[HappyAssassin]

This forum really has a hard-on for BvCs. Honestly, the fact that there are a few phenomenal BvC players on each realm doesnt make them as incredible as everyone seems to think. There are also phenomenal Necros and Assassins and Smiters and Hdins, all different types of class. It seems like every time someone posts a char idea, the answer eventually becomes "BvC will beat it!"

To answer your question Kick, a really good Bower can easily dominate pubs, she needs very high run walk to desync, an SS/eTitans switch to fury with, and good switching / dodging skills. I've seen plenty of it, the fact is that most barbs and pallys (your main threats) can be made to miss a lot by desync, and with the right build you only need a few arrows to really hurt em. Add in dodge, block, uninterupable Fury with knockback and slow, and you've got your pker. NKing is incredibly easy with a Bower. Just dont run out of arrows.

[Thoridian]

, the answer eventually becomes "BvC will beat it!" Because a BvC WILL BEAT IT, thats a fact.

[KICKZILLA]

Thanks for all the response Dennis/Happy etc..

I guess I'll try to look for 3 run walk/x/x sc's instead of my poison charms :( But honestly, that was the main reason i wanted to make her, for the poison charms/bramble...just to be a little different. The game is very old and unoriginals...i like trying different stuff even if it's only slightly different.

Maybe I can use them for a Plague javelin zon lol...

edit, to all the people mentioning BvC baba's, look this is just pub dueling. 75% of pub duel games are filled with cookie cutter Hammerdins. The rest are sosers. To bury a build like this just because it might lose vs a gg BvC baba ONCE every 25 games or however often you see one, is not fair at all...

If I can take out 75%, i'll be satisfied...just a casual dueler here.

[Romper Stomper]

Properly built bowazon with lfury on weapon swap is underrated, especially in a team where some protection can be provided.

Hammerdins need doom or grief to beat a good bowzon.

[HappyAssassin]

woops, got behind the posts :smiley:

[SicHalo]

This forum really has a hard-on for BvCs. Honestly, the fact that there are a few phenomenal BvC players on each realm doesnt make them as incredible as everyone seems to think. There are also phenomenal Necros and Assassins and Smiters and Hdins, all different types of class. It seems like every time someone posts a char idea, the answer eventually becomes "BvC will beat it!"

To answer your question Kick, a really good Bower can easily dominate pubs, she needs very high run walk to desync, an SS/eTitans switch to fury with, and good switching / dodging skills. I've seen plenty of it, the fact is that most barbs and pallys (your main threats) can be made to miss a lot by desync, and with the right build you only need a few arrows to really hurt em. Add in dodge, block, uninterupable Fury with knockback and slow, and you've got your pker. NKing is incredibly easy with a Bower. Just dont run out of arrows.


its not so much the "hard on for bvc" is that they can beat virtually anything but the greastest bvb.

I have a range of duelers, my mage and my ww/trapper both of these build i love cuz they do well in alot of situations but usally my bvc can cope with alot more drastic and tougher situations, and im starting to get to the point on it where im getting good enough to clear out pub rooms or atleast kill 8 to 9-10 ppl in most pubs.

I dont underestimate bows, but its true alot of chars can deal with bow amas, most of the time u just need to strap a doom on and its over, (i try not to do this ) but still....

however some of the smarter ones i see carry SS+ titans on switch for when an oponment getting in their face, i.e barb or smiter etc.

I have seen some well built bow amas an soem skilled ones, but to be honnest if its bvc vs bowa and both players have high skill the fight is more determined on how the bvc plays.

As for smiters, i believe they have an easier time with bowas IIRC.


I think u should do ok with bowamas if u know what ur doing but it one of those builds for me that seem to need good gear or could be destined to fair badly or fail.

[Ce Olba]

on b.net*

Bad memory.

3205s
120/45/30frw
Fort because you already got enuff ias lol

Never played Bowazons, so never bothered to find out the optimal setups.

Not really, a top bowzon can clear pubs and rape preety much everything besides good smiters and bvcs

Well, it's not like BvCs would have any trouble with 90% of pubs, as they were made thinking of pub games.

There is 1. A top bone necro, goes about 50/50 or more in top BvCs favour.

Well, a top boner will of course be a hard match-up, but is still beatable. Compare that to BvBs, pretty much unbeatable for BvCs, unless you go tele around and shoot arrows with Widow. But even then they can grab fcr gear and Enigma.

lol. I can understand Ce Olba, but that comment is just dumb.

Well, I look at everything at the BvC point of view, as BvCs clean pubs pretty easily. And a BvC should always be a part of a imaginary "pub game". This makes the arguement of bowazons cleaning pubs in 30 seconds false.

[SoAmazing]

BvC = barb vs. Caster right? Casters as in sorc?

[Ce Olba]

BvC = barb vs. Caster right? Casters as in sorc?

Not only sorcs. Casters as Hammerdins, Trappers, Sorcs, Windies, Fire Druids, Fohadins, Warcry Barbs, Bonemancers, Novamancers, to mention the most commons. But BvCs can also beat Smiters, Zealots, Fury Druids, Bowazons, Javazons, Conc barbs, Zerkers, Chargers. Well, anything except Top Notch BvBs.

[SoAmazing]

BvB's = barb vs. barb? What is the difference? A BvC focus on? what? Mele? But doesn't a BvB do that also? Im a noob as you can hear :shocked:

[Ce Olba]

BvB's = barb vs. barb? What is the difference? A BvC focus on? what? Mele? But doesn't a BvB do that also? Im a noob as you can hear :shocked:

BvB focuses on killing other barbarians mainly. They can also kill other melee types.

BvCs focus mainly on killing Casters (fohers, boners, sorcs, hammerdins, trappers etc), but is capable of killing almost all melee builds (except BvBs).

Why BvB beats BvC? BvBs have blocking, more damage, more defense. BvCs have no blocking or shield, less damage, less defense, but more life.

[SoAmazing]

hmm... So i guess theres an eternal discussion going on about who's best... BvC or BvB? :) How come they got more life the BvC's?

[SicHalo]

hmm... So i guess theres an eternal discussion going on about who's best... BvC or BvB? :) How come they got more life the BvC's?


BvC= No block

becasue of no block this means bvc have very low amount of points in dex infact some use base dex

so this means more points can be put in vita instead.

Also bvc have very low str some build with base other build with a little strenght.

So basically a bvb ghas to spend alot of point in str and dex instead of abvc who can dedicate all to vita or very little to these other attributes hense why the life is higher.

[SoAmazing]

So the BvC doesn't use str and dex because a shield is useless against casters? But if they can dual wield they should hit harder? or? :shocked:

[Thoridian]

more damage im 99% sure BvC does more damage because of dual wielding, and if u mean that BvBs use forti, BvCs can use it too so their damage is either equal or BvCs do more.

BvC or BvB? : BvC is the best because BvBers are dying to basically to everything except to other bvbers lol, not to mention that BvB has alot of trobules with catching others.

How come they got more life the BvC's? BvCs dont have a max block therefore they got like 150-200 statpoints free. These free statpoints are going to boost your vitality.

[Ce Olba]

im 99% sure BvC does more damage because of dual wielding, and if u mean that BvBs use forti, BvCs can use it too so their damage is either equal or BvCs do more.

I'm not referring to Fortitude, I'm referring to all the extra STR they got. A BvB _will_ beat a BvC, due to having more damage _and_ blocking _and_ defense.

BvC is the best because BvBers are dying to basically to everything except to other bvbers lol, not to mention that BvB has alot of trobules with catching others.

Well of course they have troubles with others, they only focus on other barbarians. Why do you think there are games such as "barb vs barb"?

BvCs dont have a max block therefore they got like 150-200 statpoints free. These free statpoints are going to boost your vitality.

More like 50-100, unless you do not use any charms or gear at all. (203 dexterity for max block @ lvl 90).

[Thoridian]

I'm not referring to Fortitude, I'm referring to all the extra STR they got. A BvB _will_ beat a BvC, due to having more damage _and_ blocking _and_ defense. Nope. The only reason BvCs are dying to BvBers is that BvBers got block and defense lol

btw. bvcs do the same or more dmg cause of second weapon.

[Ce Olba]

Nope. The only reason BvCs are dying to BvBers is that BvBers got block and defense lol

btw. bvcs do the same or more dmg cause of second weapon.

Yet you cannot disagree that they do more _straight_ damage on their main weapon. Why is this? More STR.

Also, wasn't it so that I was the one to tell you to do this and that, and not the other way around? AnakinDarkNoob, wasn't it?

[SicHalo]

1 hand dmg yes the bvb does do more dmg in primary hand, however due to duelwielding a BvC can do more dmg overall from the second hand dmg, beast included.

But A bvb will usally win due to the block, higher defence and higher ar.

and str=ed

[Thoridian]

Also, wasn't it so that I was the one to tell you to do this and that, and not the other way around? just because you told me few things doesnt mean i cannot argue with u oO

AnakinDarkNoob, wasn't it? Thats a character name based on a Tibia player Anakin Darkwood whos the biggest retard i've ever met, so i changed his name to Anakin Darknoob which means it is a name that has nothing to do with my knowledge.

[SoAmazing]

I'm not referring to Fortitude, I'm referring to all the extra STR they got. A BvB _will_ beat a BvC, due to having more damage _and_ blocking _and_ defense.



Well of course they have troubles with others, they only focus on other barbarians. Why do you think there are games such as "barb vs barb"?



More like 50-100, unless you do not use any charms or gear at all. (203 dexterity for max block @ lvl 90).

Isn't it different from player to player when u hit the max block spot? I mean, better sheild, less dex for max block right? :smiley:

[dkay]

Zons are only good on teams. any half assed idiots can beat a zon 1on1 with the typical cookie cutter classes.

why mention bvc ce olba? just say bva. or any pally using doom/grief.

[dkay]

and whos the best zon on west? i know turbo salsal is pretty good and even he got owned by my hdin when i 1on1ed.

[Ce Olba]

Zons are only good on teams. any half assed idiots can beat a zon 1on1 with the typical cookie cutter classes.

I have to admit, Zons are damn good on teams. I would just love to see a team like BvC + Boner + Bowazon, as the Boner I would ask for that team has amp and golem. That would result in 2 very strong defenses, and 1 very strong offense.

why mention bvc ce olba? just say bva. or any pally using doom/grief.

I mention BvC because I play a BvC and you do not need a BvA to beat a Zon. Yes, any pally will most likely defeat any Zon too easily.

Isn't it different from player to player when u hit the max block spot? I mean, better sheild, less dex for max block right?

Well, most people use a Stormshield as their shield. It needs ~203 dexterity to hit max blocking on lvl 90 with no Eld. With Eld ~188.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

and whos the best zon on west? i know turbo salsal is pretty good and even he got owned by my hdin when i 1on1ed.
Straight Hammers? Or you cheat with a Grief? :tongue:

[KaythonXE]

BvCs lose to:
Hammerdins
BvBs
BvAs
Zealots
Smiters
Necros
Es maxblock fbers

Let's see
Blizz sorcs
Annnnd Fallens. :)

[Ce Olba]

BvCs lose to:
Hammerdins
BvBs
BvAs
Zealots
Smiters
Necros
Es maxblock fbers

Let's see
Blizz sorcs
Annnnd Fallens. :)

BvCs beat hammerdins, BvCs beat Zealots easily, BvCs beat Smiters, BvCs beat Necros, BvCs beat ES maxblock fb'ers.

Don't you already get it? BvB is the only opponent that a BvC simply cannot beat, at least not whirl v whirl. However, with teleport and Widowmaker it _is_ possible.

[KaythonXE]

Yeah? Did a BvC ever beat me? No. No proof BvCs can beat hammerdins. Explain how a BvC stands a chance against a 50k defence 25k ar 10k zeal zealot? Oh yeah, he doesn't, because they have the same range. Darn. :/
Add to the list
Fendazons - They pwn bvcs

[arbing]

okay whatever you say KaythonXE ^^|||..
yes everything will be alright... you are the King in the entire universe and the best in the almighty world of pvp ^^
happy now?

[KaythonXE]

Yeah I'm happy. n.n I'm just gleeful, drank a little too much today. But, the fact is a lot of the people here are into the bvc fanboi-ism, and it's clouded their judgement that the ONLY thing that can beat a bvc is a bvb. Please, I crush BvCs all day. And they say, and I quote from about 100 different BvCs 'It's hard to beat a hammerdin, if possible at all'.

[Ce Olba]

Yeah? Did a BvC ever beat me? No. No proof BvCs can beat hammerdins. Explain how a BvC stands a chance against a 50k defence 25k ar 10k zeal zealot? Oh yeah, he doesn't, because they have the same range. Darn. :/
Add to the list
Fendazons - They pwn bvcs

GG clip whirls? Yes, a BvC did kick your ***, but you complained how it was your "medic". Next time that you want to prove something and lose, do not lie.

Yeah I'm happy. n.n I'm just gleeful, drank a little too much today. But, the fact is a lot of the people here are into the bvc fanboi-ism, and it's clouded their judgement that the ONLY thing that can beat a bvc is a bvb. Please, I crush BvCs all day. And they say, and I quote from about 100 different BvCs 'It's hard to beat a hammerdin, if possible at all'.

Sorry, I'm not a fanboy, I'm an actual BvC player. How about you duel some _good_ barbs instead of those gf/mf barbs? Someone like ling probably will do.

And yes, the only character that always beats BvC is BvB. BvCs _do_ beat hammerdins, necros, zealots, to name a few of the classes you said they do not beat.

Those people that you could quote are randoms. Try getting that quote out of FriggenSaget, Smash or Dagon. You won't.

I can say that I beat hammerdins in every game I go to, yet I do not say that Hammerdins do not have a chance. You say that BvCs do not have any chance, and make up false arguements that you cannot back up with anything except foolish numbers. The best hammerdins are quite a competition to the best BvCs, but they do not match the difficulty of BvBs or Bonemancers, due to Bonemancers having summon stack and possibly decrepify, and BvBs having higher defense and block.

[SoAmazing]

Whats the difference between a BvC and BvA then? Isn't a BvC practically a BvA?

[Ce Olba]

Whats the difference between a BvC and BvA then? Isn't a BvC practically a BvA?

BvAs have maximum blocking, and more defense than BvCs due to points in Shout and Iron Skin.

BvC can beat almost any build, except BvBs. BvAs can beat even those.

That's the difference.

[arbing]

well those 100 bvcs are not that good infact the majority of them doesnt have a clue on what they are doing. Yes a 'good' hammer will give a 'good' bvc a tough fight with proper teleing AND desycn hammer but it doesnt mean that they are not beatable. IMO a 'good' bone nec with 75% block/ minior stacking is a tougher match to deal with for a bvc.
no i am not a 'fanboi' of bvc, i am just stating a fact. :smiley:

[KaythonXE]

Yo. Clip whirling doesn't work if the Range of the weapons are equal. And when people clip I walk at an angle into the ww and then zeal. Kills, cause no shield. Gg bvc by a zealot. BvCs are soo pathetically easy to defeat. Am I a random? What. Because I tele onto BvCs and KILL THEM? If infact 95% of BvCs mutually agree hammerdins are a nearly impossible to kill, then wouldn't it be your little 5% that are the randoms and that are outcasts? I'm still awaiting a challenger.

I cannot back up anything because the competition just isn't there. No BvCs I beat are good enough for you, they're just 'randoms'. And all the good ones, aka luis, is scared to duel me. :) And that's not just out of my lips. My cousin was reading this forum, while searching for my counterstrike name, and he called me up randomly and said Wow that kid was scared ****less, not wantign to have his pride beaten. BvCs are ezpk for a hammerdin. So call me a mf hammerdin, all you want. And call every one of the BvCs I kill a mf/gf barb. But the fact of the matter is, I beat every single BvC I come up against. The only GOOD reason to have a BvC, is for team duels. And in team duels they never switch out their weapons unless they're the only ones left alive. They're good for bo, and leap.

Arbing you're retarded. Minion stacking doesn't help when you're facing a barb with points in leap. I know, I have a zerk barb. You leap, leap, tele, zerk(or ww) and they're gone. If minion stacking is THAT hard for you to duel against, then why can't a paladin slap on eternity and omgz minions!

[Ce Olba]

Yo. Clip whirling doesn't work if the Range of the weapons are equal. And when people clip I walk at an angle into the ww and then zeal. Kills, cause no shield. Gg bvc by a zealot. BvCs are soo pathetically easy to defeat. Am I a random? What. Because I tele onto BvCs and KILL THEM? If infact 95% of BvCs mutually agree hammerdins are a nearly impossible to kill, then wouldn't it be your little 5% that are the randoms and that are outcasts? I'm still awaiting a challenger.

Fact remains, 99% of all barbs have no idea of how to use their barbarians. And no one wants to waste their time on you, because you will just make up pathetic excuses or it will be your "medic" once again.

I cannot back up anything because the competition just isn't there. No BvCs I beat are good enough for you, they're just 'randoms'. And all the good ones, aka luis, is scared to duel me. :) And that's not just out of my lips. My cousin was reading this forum, while searching for my counterstrike name, and he called me up randomly and said Wow that kid was scared ****less, not wantign to have his pride beaten. BvCs are ezpk for a hammerdin. So call me a mf hammerdin, all you want. And call every one of the BvCs I kill a mf/gf barb. But the fact of the matter is, I beat every single BvC I come up against. The only GOOD reason to have a BvC, is for team duels. And in team duels they never switch out their weapons unless they're the only ones left alive. They're good for bo, and leap.

Whatever your cousin said doesn't matter. You're twisting Luis's words into so that they make you look like somekind of a hero. And no, they're not "scared" to duel you, they just cannot bother to waste their time on you. Morotsjos challenged you to duel on Open, and you dodged with the arguement of "lag", however the lag hurts the BvC more than the Hammerdin.

How about you make a BvC, play with it for a while, and see if it only fits for team duels?

And if I'm a part of a team, I do not hesitate to be the offensive one. Not because I'm stupid, but because BvCs lack a ranged offensive attack.

And you cannot go judging every single barb player by a few pub gamers. Everyone knows that pubgames _do not_ represent the better duelers. You will have to contact the better ones via forums, PMs, messages, mails.

As a BvC player I can easily say that BvC fit for a lot of things, not only team duels. In team duels BvCs are one of the most useless characters, as they can only Leap and Bo, unless your team is capable of backing up the barb via curses or auras.

Arbing you're retarded. Minion stacking doesn't help when you're facing a barb with points in leap. I know, I have a zerk barb. You leap, leap, tele, zerk(or ww) and they're gone. If minion stacking is THAT hard for you to duel against, then why can't a paladin slap on eternity and omgz minions!

Hammerdins do not slap on Eternity because A) it cripples their damage and fcr B) most Hammerdins are mf hammerdins and thus very dumb. And yes, minion stacking versus a Boner _is_ hard, specially if the bone has IM or Decrep. IM makes it so that if you hit the minions, you lose a darn lot of life, thus forcing you to use lifetap wand or zerk. If you use lifetap wand, you have to chase the boner, aka he can get you into his IBS fields. If you use Zerk, you will end up dead pretty quickly due to a) interrupted zerk b) blocked c) hit a minion d) missed.

As for paladins, lifetap wand makes eternity pointless, as they do not have anything to return the damage, except for Thorns, and thorns is not used, due to the fact that you have to keep teleporting to keep the minions up, but if you teleport, you cannot have the aura up.

[KaythonXE]

No the fact is everyone told me to go duel luis, that moron Thoridian would repsond 'dueled luis yet? xD' and I finally find him and what does he say? No? I'm not twisting his words, I'm saying what he said and adding what I think he actually was. Fact is, if I lost to him, you guys would go nuts saying all your crap. But if HE lost to ME which could easily happen I don't give a rat's *** what you say, he'd be in for flames like hell.

I've seen paladins keep minion's stacked without moving. Thus thorns could be kept up.

I did make a BvC. I had no trouble with any bone necros, I had no trouble with sorcs besides top end fbers and pretty much any blizz sorc. Let's see.. Some bowas killed me, even when I had ss on. I couldn't get to them, due to the arrows hitting me. Locking me in block or fhr. And it's not like I built him bad. I used.. 2x 20 str ar res fcr rings, Arachs, dracs, 40/400 Griefz. 274/40 Beastz, some crappy defense normal arreats with cham. Metalgrid. And Rune slippers. 20/14 btorch, 20/20/8 anni. Charms were.. 9x 20/5s, 3x 30+ wc lifers, rest 32020s. All in vita, about 7k life. And my technique wasn't off either, I knew how to triwhirl out of a tele in the most effective way. Though, I was used to doing it with two claws, so my triangle had to be tighter than with zerker axes. Different ranges. The fast is, even if I put on angelics I did NOT have the ar to defeat a hammerdin. Summon stack necros never stopped me, bone necros never did. It was paladins, and other ww barbs. Occasionally, a wwsin. There were too many things that could defeat me with ease. This is not the case on a hammerdin. As you cannot name one character that can completely and utterly destroy a hammerdin.

[arbing]

Arbing you're retarded. Minion stacking doesn't help when you're facing a barb with points in leap. I know, I have a zerk barb. You leap, leap, tele, zerk(or ww) and they're gone. If minion stacking is THAT hard for you to duel against, then why can't a paladin slap on eternity and omgz minions!
please dont make personal attacks altho i wouldnt mind you doing so :rolleyes:
duh... i have a bvc myself also, you assume i dont know the use of leap?? heard of im and 75% block? unless you use lifetap wands, you are force to use tele zerk with im on. ww will just killed you if you ww the skeles. and no 75% block WILL most likely block the zerk. And no... minion stacking & IM alone is not a big thread to me but combin with a 'good' nec then yes..
It will be easier to duel against 'good' nec that doesn't use IM/ skeles.

[KaythonXE]

I was always able to leap them far enough from their summons that a triwhirl could be achieved. But clearly you can't do a clean triangle and thus im and the summons would be a problem. That's your fault, not the 'difficulty' of it being any harder than dueling a hammerdin.

[SoAmazing]

BvAs have maximum blocking, and more defense than BvCs due to points in Shout and Iron Skin.

BvC can beat almost any build, except BvBs. BvAs can beat even those.

That's the difference.

Well, isn't it obvious that BvA's is best then?:wink2:

[arbing]

leap far enough?? for tri ww?? what's their fhr? 0%? please count how many times you have to leap for them to be out of the minion stack without tele away. 2 leaps and they are out of the stack? lie more please... the range is not that small when you do tri ww...

P.S IIRC one of you post last page said tht a bvc cannot beat a bone necro and now you are saying that bvc have no problems against them.... make up your mind please :rolleyes:

[Ce Olba]

please dont make personal attacks altho i wouldnt mind you doing so :rolleyes:
duh... i have a bvc myself also, you assume i dont know the use of leap?? heard of im and 75% block? unless you use lifetap wands, you are force to use tele zerk with im on. ww will just killed you if you ww the skeles. and no 75% block WILL most likely block the zerk. And no... minion stacking & IM alone is not a big thread to me but combin with a 'good' nec then yes..
It will be easier to duel against 'good' nec that doesn't use IM/ skeles.

Tell me what I'm supposed to put in the report of a bad post and I'm on.

As for Kaython, a tip: Metalgrid is crappy.

I've seen paladins keep minion's stacked without moving. Thus thorns could be kept up.

Then why are there no hammerdins with eternities? Because not a single half-brained dueler will tele on top of a hammerdin.

I did make a BvC. I had no trouble with any bone necros, I had no trouble with sorcs besides top end fbers and pretty much any blizz sorc. Let's see.. Some bowas killed me, even when I had ss on.

You're not supposed to use SS on a BvC. As for Blizzard sorcs, that's where skill comes in. If you get hit by blizzards or ice blasts you're pretty dead quickly, due to almost -100 cold resistance.

I couldn't get to them, due to the arrows hitting me. Locking me in block or fhr. And it's not like I built him bad.

Then apparently you lack the skill. Not a single bowazon will be able to beat a half-decent BvC. Doom>Bowazon Ez. If you start making up "bm" arguements, all I can say is you lack conversation skills.

I used.. 2x 20 str ar res fcr rings, Arachs, dracs, 40/400 Griefz. 274/40 Beastz, some crappy defense normal arreats with cham. Metalgrid. And Rune slippers. 20/14 btorch, 20/20/8 anni. Charms were.. 9x 20/5s, 3x 30+ wc lifers, rest 32020s. All in vita, about 7k life.

You shouldn't use 2x 20 str rings, rather 2x ravenfrosts, unless people on your realm are retarded and have zero block. In that case, 2x fcr/mana/resistance/life rings. Stats do not help barbs, unless you build on them, and then you're stupid. You shouldn't use that much 20/5s, rather 9x 20/17s, 33x 32020s and 4x 5/11s.

And my technique wasn't off either, I knew how to triwhirl out of a tele in the most effective way. Though, I was used to doing it with two claws, so my triangle had to be tighter than with zerker axes. Different ranges. The fast is, even if I put on angelics I did NOT have the ar to defeat a hammerdin.

Well, then people on your realm have more than 75% block, inhuman amounts of defense or you're pushing it to your favour. I've yet to meet a hammerdin that I couldn't hit with my 26.6k AR. 19.6k with no Enchant.

Summon stack necros never stopped me, bone necros never did. It was paladins, and other ww barbs. Occasionally, a wwsin.

Try a boner with Oak sage, merc, clay golem, IM, decrepify, max dr and 75% block. That _will_ be a damn hard match, due to a) minion stack b) Im or decrep (im makes ww useless, decrep slows it down too much) c) low damage (due to max block and max dr)

There were too many things that could defeat me with ease. This is not the case on a hammerdin. As you cannot name one character that can completely and utterly destroy a hammerdin.

Well, then you just do not know how to duel those classes, or you made several mistakes, or you lagged or you did something stupid (tele on top of a hammerdin, whirl through a smiter, use no stack vs foher, tank a zealo).

As for Zealots, they are easily beaten. However, I admit the fact that a good Zealot _is_ a hard duel, due to lifetap triggering pretty much every zeal. But they're stil beatable.

I really, really suggest you start using a BvC, get good with one, and then come here and see if you still claim that they are only good in team duels.

I've dueled with a BvC ever since the Ladder reset, and I've by far been the most useless in Team Duels. Why? Because my team usually consists of at least 1 semi-ranged attacker (boner, fb'er, windy), myself, and in some cases a third character, that usually is ranged too (fb'er, boner). However, rarely do I see any need to have more than 1 person in my team, as that person is a necromancer player, a good one. Actually, good enough for Morotsjos to bother dueling him. And if you didn't know, Morotsjos is the best BvC on "our" realm, Europe.

[KaythonXE]

Yeah. Ce Olba. What makes a BvC better than a BvA if a BvA can do just what a BvC can but it can do more? Hm? Arbing. It normally takes me two. Which is fairly easy to pull off. I must have more skill at your fanboi class than you do.

[KaythonXE]

Tell me what I'm supposed to put in the report of a bad post and I'm on.
This means you're reporting me? Oh well. Metalgrid is an awesome amulet. I especially enjoy using it because it makes beating a BvB extremely easy. IM, then bone prison with marrowwalks. :) I win. I couldn't think of a better amulet that suited my needs. I needed a bit more ar, and res, and a backup plan to kill melee chars.

[arbing]

okay whatever you say lol ^^ they must have only 1-2 minion stacked... say whatever you like... i dont consider myself a 'fanboi' of any class, i play for fun and i like many class including bvc, but i also like, bone nec, hammer w/grief charge, t/v, windy, glass cannon zons etc. (well i guess i am a 'fanboi' of cookie cutters...)
you 'might' or 'might not' have more skill than me or whoever, the fact is that i don't really care =P
and most people on this forum seen you as more or less a troll or something. If my comment can increase your E-Pride, well i am happy for you ^^. The fact is that i don't really care of who's a better player than who.. ^^

[SoAmazing]

Oprah Oprah Oprah!

[Ce Olba]

Yeah. Ce Olba. What makes a BvC better than a BvA if a BvA can do just what a BvC can but it can do more? Hm? Arbing. It normally takes me two. Which is fairly easy to pull off. I must have more skill at your fanboi class than you do.

BvC>BvA in killing casters, due to the fact that the BvA lacks points in Leap and life. As for overall, I consider BvA a BvC with low life and a BvB with low defense and damage. However, BvAs can be good too, but it takes extreme wealth and skill.

As for metalgrid, it pales in comparison vs Highlord, as Highlord adds a huge amount of damage. However, yes, Metalgrid can be useful if you lack AR or resistances, but I would still take the damage of Highlord's over the resistances or AR of Metalgrid.

Kaython, I'm sorry for the fact that you had bad experiences on BvCs. Yet that doesn't give you the right to say that BvCs totally suck. Not until you've dueled each and every BvCs and beaten them all 5-0. Which will most likely never happen, due to a few factors.

[KaythonXE]

Well. Damage isn't needed, it really does not add -that- much damage. It adds 33% to do double damage. The only characters you need lots of damage against is paladins and necros. Since any vita sorc won't have enough damage to matter, and the es sorcs you will need your OW rather than raw damage. My opinion, anyways. And the highlords 20 ias is wasted.

[Ce Olba]

Well. Damage isn't needed, it really does not add -that- much damage. It adds 33% to do double damage. The only characters you need lots of damage against is paladins and necros. Since any vita sorc won't have enough damage to matter, and the es sorcs you will need your OW rather than raw damage. My opinion, anyways. And the highlords 20 ias is wasted.

Well, actually, the damage added is useful everywhere. You see, it helps you finish off your opponents quicker. Yes, the damage mostly matters versus Boners due to their bone armor, but also Windies, as you need enough damage to kill their minions, and deal decent damage before they go away and resummon.

As for ES sorcs, it does help even there, as more damage -> es broken quicker -> dead quicker -> better.

Of course damage is not _needed_. Heck, you can go beat people around with a cracked waraxe, 500 life, no teleport and charsi'ed gear. It's just a bit harder.

[KaythonXE]

I don't even bother with damage on es sorcs. I switch to my dooms, and a OW belt for about 85 ow. And i hit them once and they bleed to one health, then if the doom doesn't kill, which sometimes it doesn't, any hit will. Windies I leap so their minions aren't a factor. And yes, in this instance, I should use highlords against a necro.

[Ce Olba]

I don't even bother with damage on es sorcs. I switch to my dooms, and a OW belt for about 85 ow. And i hit them once and they bleed to one health, then if the doom doesn't kill, which sometimes it doesn't, any hit will. Windies I leap so their minions aren't a factor. And yes, in this instance, I should use highlords against a necro.

A little something. OW that is on 1 weapon doesn't affect any other weapons, only that one. So you have 60% OW per Doom, not 85%.

As for ES sorcs, you rarely meet any decent ones, and when you do, they're fb'ers and whine about leap or hotspurs. Not like I care. However, there are some good ES sorcs, that play offensive. Versus them you have to rely on OW. I like to use Widowmaker :smiley:

As for Windies, their minions are _always_ a factor, unless you Leap 5-10 times before you teleww, and they _will_ have teleported away at that time. You're better off with Howl+Leap+triwhirls. That's what I do, so that I can ignore the minions totally, as they're running away. If the druid goes to resummon, I can always follow, or unsummon namelock, or howl again and make the duel a boring one.

But, as politely as I can, I would like to ask you not to badmouth BvCs based on experiences that you've had in public games, or by playing one. Rather seek for the good ones, or make one yourself and train a lot. By far, Hammerdins are very beatable, and good ones do not give a moment of rest to the BvC.

[KaythonXE]

I have seeked out the good ones, and he didn't want to duel. I find that two close leaps render the enemy far enough away from his summons to be able to effectively kill him without interferance.

[Ce Olba]

I have seeked out the good ones, and he didn't want to duel. I find that two close leaps render the enemy far enough away from his summons to be able to effectively kill him without interferance.

You found one, he has quit D2 because of boredom. All others, well, you've made up excuses, such as "medic" and "open lags".

Howl>multiple leaps versus windies. However, 1 leap+telewws is the best. At some situations, you do not even want the minions to go away. I remember when I dueled my friend's druid, I gained about 600 life from leeching from his wolves with quick short whirls. He ended up dying after I had gotten to 1200 life and triwhirled him.

[HappyAssassin]

@Kaython, honestly, I can see where you're coming from. Spend a week reading posts on this forum and you would get the impression that BvC barbs never lose, are the ultimate, perfect dueler, and are the greatest demonstrators of skill in PvP today. It's not like people try and paint this picture (well, maybe a little), but there are a lot of people here who are very proud of their BvC skills and constantly remind everyone of it. And many of them are very good, very well known. As far as I can tell, they aren't saying they win 100% of their duels, but it might sound like that to you. Everyone has been saying that BvCs CAN beat any char, not that they always do. Still, it's kinda a natural reaction to backlash against it. But your claims go way to far in terms of saying they are bad. Maybe they aren't as good as they are made out to be when you duel them, but they are very strong.

@ Ce Olba, I really think this forum could do with a little less BvC > all, ty. I know you play a BvC very well, not eveyone does. I do very well on my WWsin also, but I don't post up in the PvP section to inform everyone that a WW/Trapper would beat this char or that char. Imo it only really adds something if a member askes how they would fair against BvCs.

Peace.

[Ce Olba]

@ Ce Olba, I really think this forum could do with a little less BvC > all, ty. I know you play a BvC very well, not eveyone does. I do very well on my WWsin also, but I don't post up in the PvP section to inform everyone that a WW/Trapper would beat this char or that char. Imo it only really adds something if a member askes how they would fair against BvCs.

Peace.

Well, well. I've pointed out multiple times that BvCs > not all. Just that BvC > most. I do not exactly "play very well", but I do play well, at the very least.

Well, if you would look at both the barbarian forums and the PvP forum regularly like I do, you would see that there are constantly threads asking for BvC or BvA help. That's something that I can give to them, so of course I will be there to help them. I will of course say that if they do not beat build X, they shouldn't get all depressed.

However, people like KaythonXE, who make up things out of nothing and act like a king piss me off quite a bit, and I will rather write an essay of how much he is wrong than breaking my brand new wireless keyboard. It's true, I do have quite a temperament, meaning I get angry/mad quickly, but mostly I can keep it out of the forums. However, when stubborn people like Kaython appear, it's like drinking too much Coca Cola, you have to vent some of it out at a time.

[Thoridian]

I can say that I beat hammerdins in every game I go to, Lies. RIPs > u for example lol

Yo. Clip whirling doesn't work if the Range of the weapons are equal. And when people clip I walk at an angle into the ww and then zeal. Kills, cause no shield. Gg bvc by a zealot. BvCs are soo pathetically easy to defeat. Zealots belong to PvM, I've yet to duel a zealot that can beat me. Theres no way a zealot will beat a bvc who knows what hes doing.

Am I a random? yes

Because I tele onto BvCs and KILL THEM? If infact 95% of BvCs mutually agree hammerdins are a nearly impossible to kill, then wouldn't it be your little 5% that are the randoms and that are outcasts? I'm still awaiting a challenger. Move to europe and for sure me, dagon, olba, luder or sichalo will prove you otherwise.

[TheBassman]

BvCs beat Zealots easily


I realize my post on this comment is quite late, but I don't agree with this statement. I've been melee dueling with my Zealot for quite some time and have beaten many BvCs. Some may have been poorly geared but many had the tri-whirls down perfect with Grief + Beast and I've managed to come out on top on more then a few occasions.

You'll probably tell me I'm wrong, seems you do it to anyone who questions your comments about BvCs. But I find, although BvC is a great build against every class, it does not beat Zealots easily. :wink3:

Can't wait for you to shoot me down with a few words of your own :grin:

~LesC

[De4dEyE]

Tri whirls aren't a good idea against zealers that sport high damage. Short whirls that ride the edge of your range are much safer.

[Ce Olba]

Lies. RIPs > u for example lol

I said "every game I go to", not "every single hammerdin". And no, there are no RIPs in every game. More like 1 in 50 games.

[SicHalo]

I realize my post on this comment is quite late, but I don't agree with this statement. I've been melee dueling with my Zealot for quite some time and have beaten many BvCs. Some may have been poorly geared but many had the tri-whirls down perfect with Grief + Beast and I've managed to come out on top on more then a few occasions.

You'll probably tell me I'm wrong, seems you do it to anyone who questions your comments about BvCs. But I find, although BvC is a great build against every class, it does not beat Zealots easily. :wink3:

Can't wait for you to shoot me down with a few words of your own :grin:

~LesC

u are rite a good zelot can beat a BvC or give a BvC a tough fight, due to the fact zelot has high dmg (ds, life tap, etc) bvc has no block and low defence.

But tri WW as stated is not the best technique for this fight at all.

But a BvB or a BvA will do much better vs zelots due to block and pretty much make chances small for zeal

[Thoridian]

I realize my post on this comment is quite late, but I don't agree with this statement. I've been melee dueling with my Zealot for quite some time and have beaten many BvCs. Some may have been poorly geared but many had the tri-whirls down perfect with Grief + Beast and I've managed to come out on top on more then a few occasions. Then as you can see the barbs you dueled could be rich but still not skilled / they didnt know what theyre doing. No good BvCs triwhirls a zealot, thats just suicide.

I said "every game I go to", not "every single hammerdin". And no, there are no RIPs in every game. More like 1 in 50 games. But still.. .And youll never beat them because youre rarely online so ur not even getting better and ur not training any anti hammer techniques...

[Ce Olba]

But still.. .And youll never beat them because youre rarely online so ur not even getting better and ur not training any anti hammer techniques...

Because most pub hammerdins are very easy, even without any gear changes. As for getting better, that's a fact, but I'm already above the skill level of pubs, so I do not see any necessary _need_ to get better. It's rather my gear that needs to get better. For example, due to my charms I lose about 200 life compared to 33x 32020s, my resistances are not all 75 due to missing a bit on poison, I'm about 1k behind 33x 32020s in AR, and lots of damage behind (about 250 PvP damage, 1300 normal damage (99 max from 32020s and +44 average from Grief). Right now my Grief's damage is about 5800, it would be about 7100 with 33x 32020s and 40/400 GriefZ. With all optimal gear, I would have 7328 average damage on GriefZ (right now 5814) and 4908 on BeastZ (right now 2172). However, this is with 15% superior GriefZ and 285/40 BeastZ.

Also, it's not like I care about losing to mmmm .. 2 hammerdins out of how many?

Also, it's not like losing to a few skilled people means that I'm ****. You should really lay low on the "you cannot beat mr.X" thing you got going on. I can say you<Mat, which is 100% true, I can say you<Vadim, which again, is 100% true. What else? Oh yeah, Karol>You.

1 thing to you: Never say never. You cannot foresee the future. I said "I will never have Enigma on my Hammerdin" back on Ladder Season 2. It's not true right now.

[Thoridian]

Because most pub hammerdins are very easy, even without any gear changes. As for getting better, that's a fact, but I'm already above the skill level of pubs, so I do not see any necessary _need_ to get better. It's rather my gear that needs to get better. For example, due to my charms I lose about 200 life compared to 33x 32020s, my resistances are not all 75 due to missing a bit on poison, I'm about 1k behind 33x 32020s in AR, and lots of damage behind (about 250 PvP damage, 1300 normal damage (99 max from 32020s and +44 average from Grief). Right now my Grief's damage is about 5800, it would be about 7100 with 33x 32020s and 40/400 GriefZ. With all optimal gear, I would have 7328 average damage on GriefZ (right now 5814) and 4908 on BeastZ (right now 2172). However, this is with 15% superior GriefZ and 285/40 BeastZ. Are u sure the dmg difference between 20life scs and 33x 32020s and perf grief is THAT BIG? I mean 250pvp dmg is ALOT...

You should really lay low on the "you cannot beat mr.X" thing you got going on. Why ? Im just trying to get you online so u'd finally duel or so (aka you'd keep on getting better). Play hard, go pro.

I can say you<Mat, which is 100% true True
I can say you<Vadim, which again, is 100% true. Atm yes, but someday ill be beating him cause im at least training, while you dont.
What else? Oh yeah, Karol>You. Depends on his playing style. If he telesmites then yes, if he charges then me>him. Ill also beat him one day because as i said, im trying to get better by practising...

1 thing to you: Never say never. You cannot foresee the future. I said "I will never have Enigma on my Hammerdin" back on Ladder Season Word. But still youll NEVER beat them because ur not even trying >.>

[Ce Olba]

Are u sure the dmg difference between 20life scs and 33x 32020s and perf grief is THAT BIG? I mean 250pvp dmg is ALOT...

I'll have to see into it. However, I'm quite sure that's what it is. It might be less though. I re-calculated it, came out as 250.27031 PvP damage

Why ? Im just trying to get you online so u'd finally duel or so (aka you'd keep on getting better). Play hard, go pro.

You should stop saying such things, because:
a) I never said I'm invincible
b) You're not getting me online, what you're doing is rather making me not get online
c) You should know already that I have too frequent errors to play actively. However, a month after I get my new monitor, I'll go buy new cds for D2. Then I can even buy them legally, as I get the new monitor on my birthdate, and here you can buy D2 if you're 16, and I will be 16 this year. That's exactly 8 weeks from now on. However, add 2-3 weeks due to the fact that I will need to receive my monthly allowance.

True
Atm yes, but someday ill be beating him cause im at least training, while you dont.

Well, you should know that I would be training if I didn't have errors. I will also have to see how much D2 time I will have once I change schools.

Depends on his playing style. If he telesmites then yes, if he charges then me>him. Ill also beat him one day because as i said, im trying to get better by practising...

Yet he beats you. That's a fact. It's not about his playstyle, it's if he wants to go the easy or the hard way.

Word. But still youll NEVER beat them because ur not even trying >.>

Well, I'm not even trying because I rarely meet them, and because I got too many errors for long duels. I would've already dueled Vadim a lot more than I have, but his playstyle doesn't allow me to. I mean, he plays too defensive, so that I end up getting the errors before I even get a hit on him. .. And I remember a time when he said he doesn't want to play that defensive.

[KaythonXE]

Luis sold unperms as perms. :O

I killed BvCs with my charger. Not with a 2h weapon. But when they have both weapons out I use Hoz and ebotdz w/ max block and more damage. = Dead bvc. And you can't say he didn't know what he was doing. Because he ww'ed away from the charge. Still died.

receive my monthly allowance.

Lol.

I'm under the impression that many hammerdins on Europe suck. Probably like almost all the of the BvCs suck on East. The fact is, there are many skilled desync hammerdins on East. Thus why, you would die. Could you HONESTLY say you could kill 4x hammerdins with your BvC? Cause that's about the average in each pub.

I think I killed Luis, or atleast his character. Someone told me he was in Friggen. I killed FriggenOak and FriggenSaget. :O

I'd much rather have 37x 35ar/20life scs over 32020s. Ar is my problem, not damage.

[SicHalo]

Luis sold unperms as perms. :O

I killed BvCs with my charger. Not with a 2h weapon. But when they have both weapons out I use Hoz and ebotdz w/ max block and more damage. = Dead bvc. And you can't say he didn't know what he was doing. Because he ww'ed away from the charge. Still died.



Lol.

I'm under the impression that many hammerdins on Europe suck. Probably like almost all the of the BvCs suck on East. The fact is, there are many skilled desync hammerdins on East. Thus why, you would die. Could you HONESTLY say you could kill 4x hammerdins with your BvC? Cause that's about the average in each pub.

I think I killed Luis, or atleast his character. Someone told me he was in Friggen. I killed FriggenOak and FriggenSaget. :O

I'd much rather have 37x 35ar/20life scs over 32020s. Ar is my problem, not damage.


I like how u mention desync, this is the only chance vs a good barb the fight is almost a 50/50 if u just purely tele hammer then im sorry to say but u would lose.

And IIRC u where the same guy saying desync is newb in another thread?

They are some good hammers. I win alot vs hammers but i have also lost vs good hammers. But il tell u tele hammer the only way this could work vs me is if i lagg or u get me while im afk or without go etc.

And plz don't tell me how u rape bvcs with ur charger cuz it dont relate nothing to me, like i said time and time again i eat most bvcs on mage but i know for a fact this will change vs someone who can play decent.

[KaythonXE]

Cuz it don't relate to nothing. That means it relates. Learn English. I desync, but I prefer teleporting to it. And yes. My teleport will destroy 99% of barbarians I come across. The advantages to teleporting is you can overwhelm the position of the enemy with hammers then move in for the kill. Desyncing at a barbarian can be bad and good, good if you manage to come in under the radar and bad if the barbarian suspects and whirlwinds. Can you say hella' damage and little block?

[Ce Olba]

Cuz it don't relate to nothing. That means it relates. Learn English. I desync, but I prefer teleporting to it. And yes. My teleport will destroy 99% of barbarians I come across. The advantages to teleporting is you can overwhelm the position of the enemy with hammers then move in for the kill. Desyncing at a barbarian can be bad and good, good if you manage to come in under the radar and bad if the barbarian suspects and whirlwinds. Can you say hella' damage and little block?

The hell of it, I beat about 99% of all sorcs I come across, yet I'm not claiming that they would suck. That's what you're doing. You claim things that are not true. And then you turn events so that they're on your side. Heck, I can go and beat three pub games clean in a row, yet I won't claim that I'm the best ever.

As for the telehammer, as long as you use is _very_ effectively and _very_ offensively, it can work as a killing machine. Such people as RIP_TheJesus use this technique very effectively.

As for the desynch thing, a barb cannot whirl forever, they will have to stop for a bit of time, as the manapots take time to have their effect. This is when you're supposed to get them. However, wise barbs will make sure that they will not run out of mana by taking breaks at times, and rather running a bit than whirwinding that way. Myself I get killed by some random hammerdins sometimes for a few reasons mostly:

a) misjudgment of opponent's level of skill
b) misjudgment of opponent's remaining life
c) they catch me off guard
d) they jump me in the middle of a duel

a) happened with RIP_TheJesus and NK_YOU. b) happens sometimes, but rarely. c) also happens sometimes, mostly when playing with widowmaker. d) is the most frequent, happens in about every game I go to. The last one was a crappy v/t + hammerdin vs me. Well, got the hammerdin dead, but then my d2 gave me the unhandled exception error message. As for how I die mostly, it would be a combination of b,c,d or b,d or c,d. Rarely do I mix up something else with a.

SicHalo, what are the names of your possible NL character? I have a feeling I've dueled one of them. My BvC would be Mutodori.

[SicHalo]

hmm well my barb is actually called Master_Halo and my ww/trapper which i dont use much, needs a rebuild is called ww_trapper.

I think the other day u was in a pub withme Ed and Vad with the barb but u lagged out.


And my mage is ladder.

EDIT

This is why i dissagree with KaythonXE cuz he beats barbs but then claims him>barbs i mean i can say i beat alot of hammerdins succesfully, and when i do die its more layed out like ur reasons u stated, or possible lag.

Even with the mage on ladder i tear alot of barbs up but i know from my own skill that if i was the barb i should not lose consecutively to a mage. Of the mages i meet 2 so far, havent seen that Zaccu guy arround, i beat both of them without little probs however mst of the ppl on ladder have not even heard of the word stack.

Hmm i have been struck a few times with that error although i don't know what it is.

But it has not happened recently or for a good while.

[Ce Olba]

hmm well my barb is actually called Master_Halo and my ww/trapper which i dont use much, needs a rebuild is called ww_trapper.

I think the other day u was in a pub withme Ed and Vad with the barb but u lagged out.


And my mage is ladder.

Well, actually. Vadim is my friend, I helped him to restart D2 after a long break that he had. Back then I wasn't even that wealthy, so I gave him my rends and my azurewrath. He traded both for a soj IIRC, then he traded stuff on, such as soj for a botd and that botd for 2-3 sojs, he now has a welfarish necro. As for Ed, I met him from these forums, he took contact to me to duel my barb. As for "lagged out", it's not lag, it's the unhandled exception error. I have no idea what the heck causes it, but I somehow have a guess it could be the cds. It's not my connection, as it's very stable. It's not my pc, as I've put an image that resets my pc to the date that it was reformatted. I've even reformatted the PC. So the only thing that's left is D2. It cannot be overheating either, as that would most likely cause my pc to freeze or restart. Which it sometimes does, but mostly doing gaming. Also, I did clean the dusts from my fans, but that only helped once.

[Thoridian]

but then my d2 gave me the unhandled exception error message. Try formating ur HDD and then after it, install windows and they try to defragmentate ur HDD. After that install d2 and defragment again. Worked for me at least (a year ago or so)...

[PFS]

Kaython, I'm sorry for the fact that you had bad experiences on BvCs. Yet that doesn't give you the right to say that BvCs totally suck. Not until you've dueled each and every BvCs and beaten them all 5-0. Which will most likely never happen, due to a few factors.
Does this mean that you can't say a BvC is better than every other class out there until you have dueled each and every player of every other class on every realm? Winning EVERY match 5-0?

[Ce Olba]

Does this mean that you can't say a BvC is better than every other class out there until you have dueled each and every player of every other class on every realm? Winning EVERY match 5-0?

Well, not exactly. He says that BvC are _total_ trash. Meaning he believes that every build in the game can beat a BvC. That's just about 98% a lie. There are a very few builds that will beat a skilled and well geared BvC. Mainly BvB and godly Bonemancers.

Try formating ur HDD and then after it, install windows and they try to defragmentate ur HDD. After that install d2 and defragment again. Worked for me at least (a year ago or so)...

Let's see. I format my HDD about a little over week ago. Re-installed a different version of Windows (XP Professional instead of Home). Ran defragment. Installed D2. Ran defragment again. Nothing's changed.

[DuffMacane]

I've just read the first page and the last couple posts.

I have yet to see a zon that will beat my smiter/foh. And it's not like I use foh. It's rare to see a bowzon w/ high life, most go for damage it seems. It's not even that high. 1 hit may lower like 200+ but then by 3~4 hits at most I'm already at them smiting which is usually gg.

Just from my observations evade/dodge/something else just seems to get in the way of the zon, since it effectively prevents the zon from running or getting the last hit in. In melee I mean. vs casters It probably does a lot.

what are the dmg ranges for a zon anyway? like smite weak would be 2k, mediocre 2.6k, and high 3.1k.

[Thoridian]

weak bow = anything belows 4k
medicore to quite high = 5-6k
high = 7k+

Let's see. I format my HDD about a little over week ago. Re-installed a different version of Windows (XP Professional instead of Home). Ran defragment. Installed D2. Ran defragment again. Nothing's changed. Then dunno >.< It worked for me o_O

in d2 support file u can read that you have to:
uninstall d2
run scandisc and defragmentation
install d2 again
update graphic drivers
check if pc is not too hot and if it wasnt overclocked
and if nothing helps then send an email to support@blizzard.com

lol