Which has the highest dmg potential?

[mongerman]

Zeal + fanaticism, or vengeance + conviction?

[Ulthrion]

In what way do you mean?
Against monsters that go to -100% resistances in all three?
Adding all the 5 attacks from zeal together?
At hell difficultly with 50% physical resistances?
Just for getting through areas?
Damage per attack or damage per second?

Farseer *Ulthrion

[mongerman]

wow didnt know there were so many options...ok assume I'm want to know about them all hehe

[mongerman]

Then again, I guess I'm looking for the build with the highest dmg per sec combined with high survivability in hell. Thanks in advance for the input.

[hellspare]

Zeal is obviously faster than vg, and fanat gives ias as well, conviction just lowers resists. I personally think zeal/fant is better overall.

[Diab]

Not looking this up on any skill calcs or anything right now, but as far as I remember, Vengeance can have a much higher damage output than Zeal. Conviction also not only lowers resistances, but also lowers the monsters' defense.

However, most monsters in hell difficulty are immune to elemental damages, thus lowering Vengeance's effectiveness, even with Conviction. Also, since you say you're also looking for "high survivability", Zeal would be much better for that since it's a purely physical attack, and attacks much quicker, to allow you to leech much quicker.

I would go for Zeal & Fanat if I were you.

[Ulthrion]

Zeal probably does the most damage per second as hellspare told you, but the vengeance + conviction does most damage in parties (because all sorceresses, trapsins and javazons benefit extremely from the conviction). Also, I think that vengeance has a better survivability for a few reasons:
1) Elemental resist aura's (synergy for vengeance) give a passive +max resist allowing you to reach 95/95/95/90 resists easily with guardian angel (note that with 90/90/90/90 you'll take double the damage from elemental attacks compared to 95/95/95/90).
2) Little physical damage means that you can actually survive iron maiden (that is: you'll take away around 60%+ of your life with a single hit, while zeal can 1-hit kill you).
3) You can kill every monster in the game with little to no difference in killing speed, while the killing speed of zeal goes down drastically against physical immunes.

In addition, with zeal you can place 20 skillpoint in defiance for holy shield, but the added defense compared to a 20-point holy shield with only 1 defiance skillpoint (with vengeance) doesn't make much difference in PvM.
Backdraft is that you'll leach less, but I've never found that to be a problem really.

All in all, Zeal is probably the best for soloing and in combat parties, while vengeance is the perfect addition to any caster party because he can tank anything and everything, and increases damage output for the entire party (both casters and combat characters).

Both are very good builds, just chose whatever you prefer.

Farseer *Ulthrion

[hellspare]

Vengeance will most likely do more damage yes, but most of it is elemental, and monsters, especially bosses in hell have at least some elemental resists, most are immune to one. And since vengeance is so much slower than zeal, if you get swarmed by a couple dual immunes you might find your killing speed dramatically slowed down.

Zeal does have problems against PIs though, this is where vengeance shines since it can kill anything in the game, unless it's what, magic immune and PI?

[niner]

Conviction+Zealot will solve all these issues.

No mana needed
kills PI with lower def and res
fast
Balanced
can use throw weapon on switch gimmers with tri-elem +physical dmg wastes IM casters
Party friendly

[Doctor Clock]

At hell difficultly with 50% physical resistances?


This was taken out after .09.


this is where vengeance shines since it can kill anything in the game, unless it's what, magic immune and PI?

Magic Immune applies to skills like Blessed Hammer, Berserk, and Bone Spirit, not elemental.

Remember, Conviction can break immunities, so even if a Unique monster is immune to two elements, one of the immunities is usually broken. At any rate, a Zealot can probably deal out more damage per second than an Avenger. However, Avengers are fun nonetheless, and if you have a powerful 1h weapon, I suggest you give one a try.

[niner]

Zealot makes 5 hits per attack- Venger 1

Zealot has ar bonus.

Zealot needs 2 mana to attack- Venger many more, will be vulnerable when mana suckers ranged or melee hits him.

[iliketoplaydiabloalot]

most of it is elemental, and monsters, especially bosses in hell have at least some elemental resists, most are immune to one. And since vengeance is so much slower than zeal, if you get swarmed by a couple dual immunes

You realize that conviction removes 90% of immunities. Also veng has 3 different elemental attacks, so if a monster is dual immune, and the conv doesnt work, theres still that 3rd elemental damage source that will kill the monster with -100% resistances.

And the odds of meeting such a monster with dual immunities than even a lvl 25 conv cant remove is quite rare, if not impossible short of Uber Trist.

[acdcrocks]

hey whats max dmg for vengeance i just made one and he does 4291-5336 is that max if not plz tell me what is and how to get it :)

[Bjam]

I don't know what the max would be, but it's a lot more than that. With a perfect eBotdz + Fortitude + War travs + godly damage charms, you could probably average 6.5K+. Add a might merc with a pride polearm and it would go way up from there.

I have a nice setup. At level 81 I have 1900 life (no CTA), 34% DR, and I average 5.5K without the merc. I do use a merc, but with holy freeze for crowd control (the main weakness of an Avenger when he's solo) and no other auras. I plan to switch to a might merc with a Doom when funds permit, so I can have the best of both worlds.

I also have a well decked out Fanatic Zealot. He is far more powerful (kills much faster) than the Avenger, but the Avenger makes you a party favorite. Trappers, Fire or Lightning Sorcs, and LF Javazons will all proclaim you as their new best friend. You can tank, or stand back and watch the fireworks.

[niner]

I don't know what the max would be, but it's a lot more than that. With a perfect eBotdz + Fortitude + War travs + godly damage charms, you could probably average 6.5K+. Add a might merc with a pride polearm and it would go way up from there.

I have a nice setup. At level 81 I have 1900 life (no CTA), 34% DR, and I average 5.5K without the merc. I do use a merc, but with holy freeze for crowd control (the main weakness of an Avenger when he's solo) and no other auras. I plan to switch to a might merc with a Doom when funds permit, so I can have the best of both worlds.

I also have a well decked out Fanatic Zealot. He is far more powerful (kills much faster) than the Avenger, but the Avenger makes you a party favorite. Trappers, Fire or Lightning Sorcs, and LF Javazons will all proclaim you as their new best friend. You can tank, or stand back and watch the fireworks.

Make a conviciting zealot with faith merc and you could be the hero, crowd controller, and the fireworks.

[Bjam]

Make a conviciting zealot with faith merc and you could be the hero, crowd controller, and the fireworks.


I like it! Too late for me now, but sounds like a great idea for next ladder.

Would you stick with Conviction when solo, or switch to Concentration/other aura?

[EDIT] Thanks Niner; I forgot you were the Whateverdin Author. So cool, but so expensive. I think I'd have to kill 2 or 3 of my characters to make one. Not sure I'll go that crazy, but I'd love to see one in action.

[Diab]

hey whats max dmg for vengeance i just made one and he does 4291-5336 is that max if not plz tell me what is and how to get it :)

I remember a long discussion thread about which skill outputs the most damage, between Vengeance and Charge. Seeing as you can get upwards of 20k Charge damage, I'd expect the maximum Vengeance damage to be around that much as well.

[niner]

I like it! Too late for me now, but sounds like a great idea for next ladder.

Would you stick with Conviction when solo, or switch to Concentration/other aura?

Conviciton all the way save for some momentary cleansing/redemtion.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=414604

[acdcrocks]

I remember a long discussion thread about which skill outputs the most damage, between Vengeance and Charge. Seeing as you can get upwards of 20k Charge damage, I'd expect the maximum Vengeance damage to be around that much as well.

i boosted my dmg up to 13k , any1 have a link to that dicussion about vengeance yall were talkn about?

[Pucho]

i boosted my dmg up to 13k , any1 have a link to that dicussion about vengeance yall were talkn about?
and that is max damage, right? at what speed are you attacking?
I know you can reach around 10k average damage at 8 fpa 1 handed (and I doubt you can get it much higher than that without party help) but the gear you need for that is pretty much impossible to gather.

[mongerman]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Was farming NM Baal when he dropped a guardian angel, so I already have a endgame armor for my pally. Just curious, how high lvl are the items NM Baal can drop for a pally?

[AnimeCraze]

Zeal is faster, and leeches more. Also, zealots can use grief, and avengers cannot (well, they can, but they will suck bad).

[Diab]

i boosted my dmg up to 13k , any1 have a link to that dicussion about vengeance yall were talkn about?

I'll try to search for it for you, but it was probably at least half a year ago.