View Full Version : pvp troulbe vs pallies...
so ya..those grief smiters and hammerdins r owning me lately... ill win maybe 40% of time.. :/
my gear is pretty top notch now..charms are decent...build is correct for BvA
i know its not a question of gear/charms in terms of why i keep losing to em..
ne tips on how to approach em?
and plz..nothing like "play defensive vs hammerdins" (obvious)
KillaBrothers
03-06-2006, 14:38
The problem is that you're BvA...
Against all orientated chars are absoulutly gear dependant and need godly (I mean GODLY) gear to compete with specific chars in theyr environment (meaning finghting a purely melee char - smiter)...
Your weapon range 3 - right ?? Most smiters have range 2 - right??
What I do against smiters is:
I try to wirlth away from them as they attack. I usualy wirlth away in zigzags.
Having lower range they hardly can play defencive - if they do, aprouch them slowly (walk - don't run) and start ww'ing before any of you can hit another and don't ww straight through him, ww around in a triangle (not a perfect triangle - it's just a hint).
Smiters like to brake out of defencive play suddenly and charge to ya. Be prepared for that and ww asside or in zigzags backwards.
Walk just when neccessary - you're a ww'er. Attack while moving, move while attacking
I'm not much of a BvA fan - hardly could I afford one too, so my knowledge about fighting hammerdins is questionable, but:
Attack from below.
Try to attack from left bottom corner - you'll se his feet in a corner of your screen, but he woun't see ya at all (the red life bubble). The problem here is, that a good player will not allow this easily.
His dmg is unresistable, so dich any resist for any kind of offencive mods. Both rings angelics.
A widowmaker on swich may help to confuse em' and give chance of sudden hit-and-run move...
The problem is that you're BvA...
Against all orientated chars are absoulutly gear dependant and need godly (I mean GODLY) gear to compete with specific chars in theyr environment (meaning finghting a purely melee char - smiter)...
But if he said he's got "godly" gear already. By the way, could you list this "godly gear" you use?
Your weapon range 3 - right ?? Most smiters have range 2 - right??
False. 95% of all smiters use BA, which is range 3.
What I do against smiters is:
I try to wirlth away from them as they attack. I usualy wirlth away in zigzags.
Having lower range they hardly can play defencive - if they do, aprouch them slowly (walk - don't run) and start ww'ing before any of you can hit another and don't ww straight through him, ww around in a triangle (not a perfect triangle - it's just a hint).
Not a single decent smiter will follow in your whirls, but desynch ahead of them and smite on the path of your whirls, causing him to do masses of damage. And why walk? Smite is un-blockable.
Smiters like to brake out of defencive play suddenly and charge to ya. Be prepared for that and ww asside or in zigzags backwards.
Walk just when neccessary - you're a ww'er. Attack while moving, move while attacking
Walking is a bad thing, ain't gonna help versus an attack that cannot be blocked. And not a single good smiters "charges to ya", but rather ahead of your whirls, with godly desynch skills, and slays you. Or teleports ahead of your long whirl and slays you. Ask Morotsjos about Goldwrap.
morotsjos
03-06-2006, 14:54
so ya..those grief smiters and hammerdins r owning me lately... ill win maybe 40% of time.. :/
my gear is pretty top notch now..charms are decent...build is correct for BvA
i know its not a question of gear/charms in terms of why i keep losing to em..
ne tips on how to approach em?
and plz..nothing like "play defensive vs hammerdins" (obvious)
make sure you have high ar. use angelics and enchant. if you just whirl carefully you shouldn't have any problems at all with most of them.
KillaBrothers
03-06-2006, 15:03
Not a single decent smiter will follow in your whirls, but desynch ahead of them and smite on the path of your whirls, causing him to do masses of damage. And why walk? Smite is un-blockable.
Not a single decent barb will make long enough whirls for you to do that.
Walking is a bad thing, ain't gonna help versus an attack that cannot be blocked. And not a single good smiters "charges to ya", but rather ahead of your whirls, with godly desynch skills, and slays you. Or teleports ahead of your long whirl and slays you. Ask Morotsjos about Goldwrap.
Ok - about walking. I didn't evin menion blocking.
running means faster. It's much easyer to make longer path of movement which will allow a smiter to tele and smite as you stated. Anything that's happening fast is a potentiol space for human mistakes.
KillaBrothers
03-06-2006, 15:07
And I never said I had a godly BvA equipment.
I also stated that I'm no BvA fan.
I got myself a BvB and was giving a little advice from my experience in melee duels about fighting smiters with ww barbs.
*EDIT* You should try to give a better advice instead of complaining about mine
And I never said I had a godly BvA equipment.
I also stated that I'm no BvA fan.
That was obviously stated towards the thread starter.
I got myself a BvB and was giving a little advice from my experience in melee duels about fighting smiters with ww barbs.
Fighting smiters with a BvB is crap, since Smiter>BvB, whereas BvCs are pretty equal with the best smiters, e.g. Morotsjos and Goldwrap.
Not a single decent barb will make long enough whirls for you to do that.
Try dueling Goldwrap or any decent smiter who knows how to desynch. Btw, Goldwrap desynchs even when he buys manapots.
Ok - about walking. I didn't evin menion blocking.
But walking=blocking.
running means faster. It's much easyer to make longer path of movement which will allow a smiter to tele and smite as you stated. Anything that's happening fast is a potentiol space for human mistakes.
Incorrect. You walking or running doesn't affect the speed your ww moves. It only affects when you yourself move. But no, it won't affect the speed your ww moves ahead. Also slower whirls= more time spend in smite range= more chance of being lifetapped and more chance of being hit. Versus smiters the faster you whirl the better, since you cannot block their attacks.
*EDIT* You should try to give a better advice instead of complaining about mine
I will leave the "better advice" for morotsjos, who has beaten Goldwrap. Myself I have no business with smiters since I keep losing to Goldwrap no matter what. Oh, and Goldwrap is the best Smite v All player on Europe.
KillaBrothers
03-06-2006, 15:31
A BvB is > smiter any day in my book.
If you can beat good BvB with your smiter or whatever else - :thumbsup:
And the names you're pointing out doesn't impress me simply because I don't know these people or theyr chars.
And I know that r/w doesn't effect ww speed (I never stated that ither) - I was talkning about plane old walking on foot. Please stop interpretating my posts as you like.
*EDIT* English isn't my language and I'm far from being the best typist, but I think that i type clearly enough for the people who want to understand what I'm trying to say.
A BvB is > smiter any day in my book.
If you can beat good BvB with your smiter or whatever else - :thumbsup:
And the names you're pointing out doesn't impress me simply because I don't know these people or theyr chars.
BvBs use a shield, thus they lose the profits of two weapons, they also got less life than BvCs or BvAs. The only good things they got is more dmg and more defense, but Smite ignores defense. And yes, Goldwrap, the best Smite v All player on Europe _will_ beat pretty much _any_ BvB. Too bad he gave up his char.
And I know that r/w doesn't effect ww speed (I never stated that ither) - I was talkning about plane old walking on foot. Please stop interpretating my posts as you like.
I was also talking about the walking speed. And no, it doesn't affect the ww's moving, unless you take away your boots.
*EDIT* English isn't my language and I'm far from being the best typist, but I think that i type clearly enough for the people who want to understand what I'm trying to say.
English is not my native language either, just finished my 9th school year today, got a 9 on English, on a scale of 4-10, where 4 is failed and 10 is perfect. And my English teacher gave me a book called "Anthology of Texts", a book that they use to teach the history of English in a University in Helsinki.
KillaBrothers
03-06-2006, 16:07
I was also talking about the walking speed. And no, it doesn't affect the ww's moving, unless you take away your boots.
Yet again we seem not understand each other.
(and to think this is because of just a few words I wrote in my first post on this thread:banghead: )
I said to approuch your foe slowly, as in don't rush, thus walk. That is all I said about walking. Nothing on blocking or ww movment speed.
Please do not take it as an offence. I assume you've built quite a lot of them smiters, but how many BvBs have you made?
KillaBrothers
03-06-2006, 16:23
English is not my native language either, just finished my 9th school year today, got a 9 on English, on a scale of 4-10, where 4 is failed and 10 is perfect. And my English teacher gave me a book called "Anthology of Texts", a book that they use to teach the history of English in a University in Helsinki.
OK - good for you:unimpressed:
That was was most impressive and informative.
Hey, anyway - congrats on the good mark in english. Keep it up and have a good summer:thumbsup:
hardnfast
03-06-2006, 17:33
Fighting smiters with a BvB is crap, since Smiter>BvB, whereas BvCs are pretty equal with the best smiters, e.g. Morotsjos and Goldwrap.
I dont agree, my BvB has maybe an easyier time vs smiters than my new BvC.
The reasons being I get to use arreats + fort and still have 50% DR, also I'm more likely to get hit by a charge with my BvC as his defense is low and has no block. Having said that I dont find smiters that hard with my BvC, V/T's on the other hand I dont seem to have the skill or gear setup to beat at this stage...
*edit
Nevermind, you mentioned the damage in your previous post. Thats what happens when you leave the message window open and forget to submit
i think that ba smiter and pb smiter fact is wrong, most will use Pb due to reaching the smite bp automatcally which would set them up better if someone wore anti smite gear, i.e slow, doom etc, DESPITE the range disadvantage.
Also the reason why BvC is better vs the smiter is the fact they have higher life, max dr while using a duelwield setup, more ww dmg from the 2 hand setup, faster WW speed due to BvC made to hit a certain WW speed i.e 40% with full gear in increased Attack speed, while still maintaining full hit checks.
And block does nothing vs a Smiter the only use i can see for the shield is the dr but even then this is why a BvC uses CoA Ber Ber.
I find versus smiters, not the pros like goldwrap as i have yet to fight him or see him in action but against the basic shift+ smite usally clipping type WW work. Clipping usally allows u to hit the opponment without him being able to hit u with the smite and it works well. IF and i state IF the smiter charges you which i have seen quite a few do its a GG fight as u simply WW away.
EDIT
If you fight vs hammerdins, the best chance is to play slightly defensive, i.e use Widowmaker and leap, if the hammerdin is slightly distant use leap on the spot to help prevent potential tele-hammer and use Widowmaker to wear it down with OW and venom dmg. Also if the tele near switch to WW and simply WW away to get possible hits and rinse and repeat the above strategy.
Using long WWs also help and try not to get possitioned near Walls as they can use this to cage u in a hammerfield.
Desyncing hammerdins are harder fights and Long WW work better here and so does alot of leap, never stay in the same possition too long try to keep moving.
I didn't read all the resopnses but using a hel widowmaker on switch will even the odds against hammerdins
Edit: Let me be more specific. Guided arrows from widow will give the pally OW which will chip away at his life and make him go offensive and try to tele on you and hammer. The only BvC that I really considered to have beaten me is Pet on WSCNL and he does short zigzag (not triangle) whirls down and to the side so I can't NL tele and hammer and I can't predict where he is going. If he tries to desync you just shoot a few arrows and then whirl even if you don't see him on your screen
I didn't read all the resopnses but using a hel widowmaker on switch will even the odds against hammerdins
Edit: Let me be more specific. Guided arrows from widow will give the pally OW which will chip away at his life and make him go offensive and try to tele on you and hammer. The only BvC that I really considered to have beaten me is Pet on WSCNL and he does short zigzag (not triangle) whirls down and to the side so I can't NL tele and hammer and I can't predict where he is going. If he tries to desync you just shoot a few arrows and then whirl even if you don't see him on your screen
As you're on USWest SCNL, try locating Smash. There's someone who _will_ give you trouble. If you didn't know, Smash is mcm, who in turn is the best BvC on UsWest SCNL.
And well, if you do long whirls, the hammerdin can just tele ahead of those. I guess I'll have to try getting some shorter whirls off.
The reasons being I get to use arreats + fort and still have 50% DR
Any EUSCNL barb can do that easily. As for others, 31+15=46, think that's close enough? And you also lose a lot of damage when wielding a shield, due to not being able to dual wield. As for charges, only stupid smiters would abuse charging to attack. Good ones will just use charge to desynch or move. If you give them enough time to charge you off-guard, a good smiter will have teled on top of you and smited you at least twice in the time the other crapsmiter gets 1 hit by charge only to be annihilated by a ww going away.
Yet again we seem not understand each other.
(and to think this is because of just a few words I wrote in my first post on this thread )
I wasn't thinking about the FRW, rather pressing the whatever-button to change from run to walk. The only way this will affect your ww is if you take off some frw at the same time.
I said to approuch your foe slowly, as in don't rush, thus walk. That is all I said about walking. Nothing on blocking or ww movment speed.
To me walk=walk, not walk=approach slowly. You should rather use "approach slowly" if that's what you truly mean and if it has nothing to do with switchin from walk to run and vice versa. And yes, if you walk, your block is 75%, if you run, it's 25%. That's the "walk=block" thing.
OK - good for you
That was was most impressive and informative.
Hey, anyway - congrats on the good mark in english. Keep it up and have a good summer
It wasn't "informative", it was off the topic. And I do not know if you're trying to be sarcastic, but getting a 9/10 on a scale of 4-10 is a shame to me. I could've gotten a 10 if I would've been a little more keen on the lessons, but I never was really active there, except for knowing just about everything. Except for a few words.
However, if you're not being sarcastic, thank you a lot. As for the summer, I hope it gets warm soon, right now it's been raining the whole day. Good summer to you and to anyone (I mean, ANYONE) who's reading this, good summer and do not forget to get a good looking tan. (which is something I will miss, most likely, since I spend most of my days writing here and listening to music, on PC of course). Also, I suggest you to try to enjoy something like a glass full of ice and cola. Really good.
OT: Gosh, I ruined my lightblue shirt while eating yesterday, spilled some gyros on it. Gyros is pigmeat. Now I have to use my white collarshirt, which I'm afraid to dirt at any moment. Specially since I'm also wearing beige pants. Hope my laundry will be done soon. Funny, when my friend was here (in this world), I said to him how collarshirts look "life", which is something that people who go out a lot wear, but now that he's away, I wear collarshirts almost always. I hope he will forgive my cruel words, if he still is there, somewhere. (And do not spam the "I understand how you feel", since it's about 99% certain that you have no idea, and that will just make me feel a little more annoyed of this thing called life)
As you're on USWest SCNL, try locating Smash. There's someone who _will_ give you trouble. If you didn't know, Smash is mcm, who in turn is the best BvC on UsWest SCNL.
And well, if you do long whirls, the hammerdin can just tele ahead of those. I guess I'll have to try getting some shorter whirls off.
I've tried locating mcm, but no dice. Pet claims he is better than mcm; don't know how true that is though but he is one heck of a BvC. It ended up 1-1 though so not too bad. According to blobs, long whirls desync so the pally may charge into your whirl if he is trying to desync too
KillaBrothers
04-06-2006, 10:45
It wasn't "informative", it was off the topic. And I do not know if you're trying to be sarcastic, but getting a 9/10 on a scale of 4-10 is a shame to me. I could've gotten a 10 if I would've been a little more keen on the lessons, but I never was really active there, except for knowing just about everything. Except for a few words.
Grate - so you're a some sort of a genius...
Incradible academic achievement to have a 9 or a 10 in a 9th grade. Post your marks after a few ears in university. If they'll still be 9s and 10s - then you might impress someone.
However, if you're not being sarcastic, thank you a lot. As for the summer, I hope it gets warm soon, right now it's been raining the whole day. Good summer to you and to anyone (I mean, ANYONE) who's reading this, good summer and do not forget to get a good looking tan. (which is something I will miss, most likely, since I spend most of my days writing here and listening to music, on PC of course).
I was not being sarcastic when wishing for a good summer.
Thank you back on this...
I'll try my best to have a good summer, but I'm working and I woun't get a vakasion (I evin forgot how to spell this word - sad isn't it:cry: ) this summer, but clearly I'll get payed for my work, so it'll help me in making my summer good:evil:
Also, I suggest you to try to enjoy something like a glass full of ice and cola. Really good.
I love cola:thumbsup: . But beer is still better:drunk:
Just some friendly advice: Please don't throw around "well-known" or professional player names. I have found they are extremely closed-circuit and 90% of the people will not know who the hell they are, and thus will not care. Of the 10% that do know, 90% will have known through hearsay, and the tiny 10% of that 10% will have actually played with the person in question.
Not all of us (nearly none of us, I should say) run with the big dawgs (dogs?), so don't throw their names into the equation like it means anything.
Okay, I respect that you may think Smiters > X Barb. But don't use this Goldwrap fellow from Europe server to reinforce this. Hell, a lot of us don't even play on Europe! Get my point? And furthermore, these are supposedly extremely elite players being named. Thus, just because Goldwrap is the pwnage with Smiters does not NECESSARILY mean Smiters are the bomb, always.
Just because a shooting ace is good with a revolver doesn't mean the gun is better than the assault rifles the rest of us are toting.
Muzzy Roberto
06-06-2006, 05:14
What's all this 'desync' that's being thrown around? What's that mean?
desynch occurs when a chars r/w is so high that even tho hes runing n a straight line, it will look like he "cut off" to others and appear out of nowhere
neways, against smiters, u said clipping, as in very short quick ww's
Not all of us (nearly none of us, I should say) run with the big dawgs (dogs?), so don't throw their names into the equation like it means anything.
But yet all the worthy people do "run with the bit dawgs". The people who are "worthy" are the ones who actually know what they're talking about, the ones that got skills too.
Okay, I respect that you may think Smiters > X Barb. But don't use this Goldwrap fellow from Europe server to reinforce this. Hell, a lot of us don't even play on Europe! Get my point? And furthermore, these are supposedly extremely elite players being named. Thus, just because Goldwrap is the pwnage with Smiters does not NECESSARILY mean Smiters are the bomb, always.
Just to clear this up. A smiter who knows how to desynch and telesmite>most barbs. A smiter who only knows shiftsmite and random charges<pub barb.
Just because a shooting ace is good with a revolver doesn't mean the gun is better than the assault rifles the rest of us are toting.
Yet this ace can most likely take all of you rifle people down in a one-on-one duel, as he doesn't need the be far away and his revolver fires faster.
KillaBrothers
06-06-2006, 11:19
Hey
Ce Olba, you simply ignore the point made by me and by pdpsiSS...
We (and probably majority of people here) do NOT know goldwrap or whatever else maniac smiter player. We just don't.
I could start pointing out barb names that you for sure wouldn't know and claim that your knowledge of melee duels is somewhat incomplete just because you do not know them. (you didn't say that about us directly, but the point was clear)...
Where I and clearly pdpsiSS come from, there are some grate barbs that cannot be beaten by smiters, and where you come from, abviosly smiters beat barbs. We could argue forever who is better - the barbs I know or paladins you know, but the argument allready became pointless.
What if I'de start convincig you that in some parts of my country you can hunt unicorns if you dress up like santa and take with ya into the woods only a pack of salt, salami and four rusty warnuts. You'd be right to say that I live in a dream land. But this is not the case, now is it? You haven't encountered a barb that can beat a godly smiter? Grate! I do believe you! I really do! There is such a possibilitie! But I haven't encountered a smiter that that can beat a godly barb! You should admit such a possibilitie. Is it so hard to accept that there are some people convinced otherwise than you?
Hey
Ce Olba, you simply ignore the point made by me and by pdpsiSS...
We (and probably majority of people here) do NOT know goldwrap or whatever else maniac smiter player. We just don't.
Then substitute "Goldwrap" with whatever is the name of the best smiter on your Realm.
I could start pointing out barb names that you for sure wouldn't know and claim that your knowledge of melee duels is somewhat incomplete just because you do not know them. (you didn't say that about us directly, but the point was clear)...
I do not need to know some random names, the most important BvC names happen to be Morotsjos, mcm, blobs, luis. And I never claimed that my knowledge of melee dueling is perfect, but since I've dueled multiple times with the best available smiter on my Realm, I think I can claim that 95% of all smiters are total crappers who have no idea of what they do with all the items. Most of all smiters are shiftsmiters. I've only seen 1 telesmiter and zero desynchers in pubs. That tells you already that most smiters, which is the most common class in pubs in EUSCNL, are crap.
Where I and clearly pdpsiSS come from, there are some grate barbs that cannot be beaten by smiters, and where you come from, abviosly smiters beat barbs. We could argue forever who is better - the barbs I know or paladins you know, but the argument allready became pointless.
My point is that even the best of BvCs/Barbs loses to the best of smiters. IIRC morotsjos said he was about equal with Goldwrap. But yes, in common pubs, I do beat more smiters than I lose to. But if we take a common piece of **** BvC and a common smiter, the smiter beats the barb since barbs are way harder to play.
What if I'de start convincig you that in some parts of my country you can hunt unicorns if you dress up like santa and take with ya into the woods only a pack of salt, salami and four rusty warnuts. You'd be right to say that I live in a dream land. But this is not the case, now is it? You haven't encountered a barb that can beat a godly smiter? Grate! I do believe you! I really do! There is such a possibilitie! But I haven't encountered a smiter that that can beat a godly barb! You should admit such a possibilitie. Is it so hard to accept that there are some people convinced otherwise than you?
I have encountered a barb that beats 95% of all smiters easily, character name Dagon, better known as morotsjos. But what I'm saying is that if you try to duel a very good smiter or a v/t you're most likely to lose, unless you yourself have exceptional level of skill. If I'm in a pub with Goldwrap, he beats every single barb in there without a sweat. Why? Because he's got skill.
morotsjos
06-06-2006, 11:52
Where I and clearly pdpsiSS come from, there are some grate barbs that cannot be beaten by smiters, and where you come from, abviosly smiters beat barbs. We could argue forever who is better - the barbs I know or paladins you know, but the argument allready became pointless.
thing is that you claim that bvb-barbs > smiters, so your arguments really lack credibility. no shieldbarb stands a chance vs competent 50k+ def telesmiters, especially not when they start using slow. you simply need the extra damage from beast to kill them consistently.
although barb has advantage over smite at the very top level of dueling the sad fact is that 99% of barbs will never even put up a fight against any random telesmiter.
hardnfast
06-06-2006, 12:33
thing is that you claim that bvb-barbs > smiters, so your arguments really lack credibility. no shieldbarb stands a chance vs competent 50k+ def telesmiters, especially not when they start using slow. you simply need the extra damage from beast to kill them consistently.
although barb has advantage over smite at the very top level of dueling the sad fact is that 99% of barbs will never even put up a fight against any random telesmiter.
However you gain an extra 300%ed from fort, keep the 20% AR bonus from arreats and 50%DR. Also on uswest ladder I haven't come across that many good telesmiters. Charge desync seems the more common strat or chase and smite.*
I think a ww barb has the edge vs a random selection of public dueling smiters.**
Goldwrap, he beats every single barb in there without a sweat. Why? Because he's got skill.
Agreed, it comes down to this, I've experianced some asswhipping's against more skilled players.
* sad but true
** uswest ladder
However you gain an extra 300%ed from fort, keep the 20% AR bonus from arreats and 50%DR. Also on uswest ladder I haven't come across that many good telesmiters. Charge desync seems the more common strat or chase and smite.*
But you lose the chances to hit with Beast, thus you lose masses of damage. Also, BvCs on my realm can have 50% DR and dual wielding due to a bugged item. Also, other barbs can prebuff with fade and have 46% DR and dual wield, and Fortitude on of course.
I think a ww barb has the edge vs a random selection of public dueling smiters.**
BvA or BvC yes, BvB not, unless dual wielding.
Agreed, it comes down to this, I've experianced some asswhipping's against more skilled players.
* sad but true
** uswest ladder
Yes, skilled players whip many asses with their leather whips of "owning".
Hmm, yes true about the AR from beast. Put that down to me posting without thinking, also true about prebuffing fade however its not an option for me as the stash is already overflowing.
Do you have a merc carrying enigma/forti/other armor, a random helm and a widowmaker? if not, do so. Saves lots of space.
hardnfast
06-06-2006, 12:51
But you lose the chances to hit with Beast, thus you lose masses of damage. Also, BvCs on my realm can have 50% DR and dual wielding due to a bugged item. Also, other barbs can prebuff with fade and have 46% DR and dual wield, and Fortitude on of course.
Hmm, yes true about the AR from beast. Put that down to me posting without thinking, also true about prebuffing fade however its not an option for me as the stash is already overflowing.
morotsjos
06-06-2006, 14:57
However you gain an extra 300%ed from fort, keep the 20% AR bonus from arreats and 50%DR. Also on uswest ladder I haven't come across that many good telesmiters. Charge desync seems the more common strat or chase and smite.*
I think a ww barb has the edge vs a random selection of public dueling smiters.**
Agreed, it comes down to this, I've experianced some asswhipping's against more skilled players.
* sad but true
** uswest ladder
who says bvc doesn't use fort? anyway fort is dumb since you need the mobility from enigma vs telesmite. i dont consider smiters that don't teleport as threats anymore.
if you take x random pub barbs vs x random pub smiters the smiters will win most of the duels. sad but true.
most barbs have huge problems beating even the dumbest chasing smiters.
hardnfast
06-06-2006, 16:15
who says bvc doesn't use fort? anyway fort is dumb since you need the mobility from enigma vs telesmite. i dont consider smiters that don't teleport as threats anymore.
Nobody says they dont use it, on uswest ladder they wont have 50% dr if they do.
if you take x random pub barbs vs x random pub smiters the smiters will win most of the duels. sad but true.
most barbs have huge problems beating even the dumbest chasing smiters.
Ok, that all good. Just not my experiance dueling on uswest ladder.
morotsjos
06-06-2006, 17:29
Nobody says they dont use it, on uswest ladder they wont have 50% dr if they do.
Ok, that all good. Just not my experiance dueling on uswest ladder.
with fade they'll get either 46% or 50% dr depending on if they use dungos or not. you must have really ****ty smiters if they cant beat pubbarbs. i am 100% sure i could beat 99% of all barbs without any problems by just telesmiting, and i suck with smiters in general.
mainaman
06-06-2006, 17:33
who says bvc doesn't use fort? anyway fort is dumb since you need the mobility from enigma vs telesmite. i dont consider smiters that don't teleport as threats anymore.
if you take x random pub barbs vs x random pub smiters the smiters will win most of the duels. sad but true.
most barbs have huge problems beating even the dumbest chasing smiters.
that is why most smiters think they are godly.when im in game no matter how many smiters there they will always host me. but they are in for a surprise :banghead: :dizzy: and end up unhosting me.
yesterday this bm smiter ended up calling his friend windy to help after he saw he cant beat me first with his hammerdin, second with his smiter (which was pretty bm by the way : exile, doom)
But you lose the chances to hit with Beast, thus you lose masses of damage. Also, BvCs on my realm can have 50% DR and dual wielding due to a bugged item. Also, other barbs can prebuff with fade and have 46% DR and dual wield, and Fortitude on of course.
BvA or BvC yes, BvB not, unless dual wielding.
Yes, skilled players whip many asses with their leather whips of "owning".
Do you have a merc carrying enigma/forti/other armor, a random helm and a widowmaker? if not, do so. Saves lots of space.
this is correct cuz as i said in an earlier post the shield gimps ur performance even on my badly equiped older bva i used to duelwield and the only source of dr i have was the 15% dr on verdungos and i was still doing pretty well.
On my bvc i am able to be comfortable deal with 30% dr very few smiter i have seen have forced me to change my armour to switching more dr gear.
And that is a fact crap smiter>crap barb simple.
The problem with barbs is most do not know how to ww vs a smiter, i.e WW through the smiter and get hit too many times and with exile it makes the situation worst as msot barbs don't know how to deal with life tap etc.
dragongelf
06-06-2006, 21:04
i found a new way to be beat a smiter...
well... not really a new way... im just not sure if its been mentioned yet... and it might not be the best way but it works for me...
basicly use a doom ba with the holy freeze aura... it slows them down more then enough to whirl over them and they wont always have the speed to teleport away. it saved me a lot of damage against a lot of smiters and it gave me the upper hand against many smiters and hammerdins leaving me with an 80% ish winning streak
i found a new way to be beat a smiter...
well... not really a new way... im just not sure if its been mentioned yet... and it might not be the best way but it works for me...
basicly use a doom ba with the holy freeze aura... it slows them down more then enough to whirl over them and they wont always have the speed to teleport away. it saved me a lot of damage against a lot of smiters and it gave me the upper hand against many smiters and hammerdins leaving me with an 80% ish winning streak
most use this technique anyway nothing new.
dragongelf
06-06-2006, 22:05
most use this technique anyway nothing new.
yeah i thought so... but just thought i'd mention it anyway...
hardnfast
07-06-2006, 01:35
that is why most smiters think they are godly.when im in game no matter how many smiters there they will always host me.
This is part of the reason I enjoy dueling pub smiters.
this is correct cuz as i said in an earlier post the shield gimps ur performance even on my badly equiped older bva i used to duelwield and the only source of dr i have was the 15% dr on verdungos and i was still doing pretty well.
Agreed, my last 1v1 duel vs a smiter I used only verdunogs and enigma for dr
and won 4-1
with fade they'll get either 46% or 50% dr depending on if they use dungos or not. you must have really ****ty smiters if they cant beat pubbarbs. i am 100% sure i could beat 99% of all barbs without any problems by just telesmiting, and i suck with smiters in general.
I have seen a few bvc's on west using fade prebuff, I just dont seem to have the stash space.
Yes west does have ****y smiters, it also has some really good ones. I was 10-0ed recently vs a T/V.
morotsjos
07-06-2006, 14:26
This is part of the reason I enjoy dueling pub smiters.
Agreed, my last 1v1 duel vs a smiter I used only verdunogs and enigma for dr
and won 4-1
I have seen a few bvc's on west using fade prebuff, I just dont seem to have the stash space.
Yes west does have ****y smiters, it also has some really good ones. I was 10-0ed recently vs a T/V.
same here, i have treachery on merc but never use it.
t/vs or v/ts are completely different and way harder than regular smiters.
mainaman
07-06-2006, 18:22
Agreed, my last 1v1 duel vs a smiter I used only verdunogs and enigma for dr
and won 4-1
I dont use dungo,but i use coa +nigma so i have enough dr, and in case i meet a smiter with more def then i put on agelics and in extreme cases enchant.
As for V/t's ever since i got all the gear i need -ort kiras/4 ort armor/fade prebuf ,tgods and a bunch of 20/11 lr scs in inv , i'm yet to lose to them -->haven't met any good ones that can desynch properly,well met one actually but still didn't have problems beating him
hardnfast
08-06-2006, 03:26
I dont use dungo,but i use coa +nigma so i have enough dr, and in case i meet a smiter with more def then i put on agelics and in extreme cases enchant.
As for V/t's ever since i got all the gear i need -ort kiras/4 ort armor/fade prebuf ,tgods and a bunch of 20/11 lr scs in inv , i'm yet to lose to them -->haven't met any good ones that can desynch properly,well met one actually but still didn't have problems beating him
I have an ort Kira's in the stash now so I will go with kira's / enigma / tgods to start with. I was already using a few 19/11 20/11's SC's
Romper Stomper
08-06-2006, 07:13
The only difficulty with V/T or T/V is that of gear -- if you don't have enough light res AND AR, you're going to have issues. DR is of SECONDARY IMPORTANCE to having enough light res and AR.
Romper Stomper
08-06-2006, 07:14
I guess that would be "TERTIARY IMPORTANCE" to two other facets...
valentino
08-06-2006, 07:45
I'm thinking to switch from Pally to BvC barbie cuz' boring,
My best char currently is T/V, please gimme some lessons,
I wanna learn how good barb duel against smiter-variant paladin.
Please bring your good barb, good tactics ,well prepared,
and lets have some fun duels.
I just wanna test my pally against good barbies before switch to,
trade pcombat lifers, and some godly stuff for barb stuff.
Account -> *TheRedTeam ESCNL
(Paladin level 91.5, 4.1k life base str build, 75%block, 50%DR, 86% FHR,
no Lifetap of course. :wink3: )
Plz gimme a whisper while in game or post your good barb acc. here
Thx!
(btw, I'm also thinking of remake another pally for BM pub :P eg.
Draculs, Exile)
if ww carefully u shouldnt lose to any smiter.
any type of ww barb can beat smiters. bvb barb u still dual wielding.
If u aint good at wwing, use grief + doom to slow his smiting speed, and use celgaw or nofersious belt to make him even slower. Attend good amount of ar is necessary.
To make thing even eaiser, grab a lifetap wand, curse the smiter and ww through him with ur grief + doom, and u will heal faster than he dish out dmg, not to mention his slow attack speed.
The only difficulty with V/T or T/V is that of gear -- if you don't have enough light res AND AR, you're going to have issues. DR is of SECONDARY IMPORTANCE to having enough light res and AR.
yeah as if u dont have enought light res they can whore out the foh, if u lack too much dr they can run u down with smite.
if ww carefully u shouldnt lose to any smiter.
any type of ww barb can beat smiters. bvb barb u still dual wielding.
If u aint good at wwing, use grief + doom to slow his smiting speed, and use celgaw or nofersious belt to make him even slower. Attend good amount of ar is necessary.
To make thing even eaiser, grab a lifetap wand, curse the smiter and ww through him with ur grief + doom, and u will heal faster than he dish out dmg, not to mention his slow attack speed.
this tacktick then comes down to what weapons they use, which is either grief pb or grief ba. I know a smiter who uses pb and carries some speed gear to counter as much of the hf as possible.
Ba smiter will not have a chance vs this technique.
mainaman
08-06-2006, 16:01
yeah as if u dont have enought light res they can whore out the foh, if u lack too much dr they can run u down with smite.
this is not entirely true
with my set up i have exactly zero dr and still kill them v/t's
even the ones that try and desynch arrownd me, it only takse careful ww
I mean if you use only standard gear, no dupes, in order to stack high enough to negate conviction you will end up with zero dr...
this tacktick then comes down to what weapons they use, which is either grief pb or grief ba. I know a smiter who uses pb and carries some speed gear to counter as much of the hf as possible.
Ba smiter will not have a chance vs this technique.
if the smiter uses grief pb, then ww barb will have range advantage. so either way the smiter is gonna lose no matter what, just how u play ur barb.
this is not entirely true
with my set up i have exactly zero dr and still kill them v/t's
even the ones that try and desynch arround me, it only takse careful ww
I mean if you use only standard gear, no dupes, in order to stack high enough to negate conviction you will end up with zero dr...
yeah but this is not the same vs a good v/t u can deal with the not so skilled but high skilled will prolly mean death.
And @ Rancors no decent smiter will ever let range advantage be a deciding factor, i.e charge desyncing where WW stops to get right into the path of WW, tele smite etc. All of these things simply cancel out the dissadvantage, even some use the hf flash then smite as it slow down ww enough, walk/run speed to stay in range long enough to hit with smite.
If ur talking about shift smiters then yes this is correct but even if the smiter used ba the technique clipping still works so it has very little out come for this type of duel.
yeah but this is not the same vs a good v/t u can deal with the not so skilled but high skilled will prolly mean death.
And @ Rancors no decent smiter will ever let range advantage be a deciding factor, i.e charge desyncing where WW stops to get right into the path of WW, tele smite etc. All of these things simply cancel out the dissadvantage, even some use the hf flash then smite as it slow down ww enough, walk/run speed to stay in range long enough to hit with smite.
If ur talking about shift smiters then yes this is correct but even if the smiter used ba the technique clipping still works so it has very little out come for this type of duel.
yes, v/t is a different matter, but we're talking about pure smiter right here.
Usually if the smiter tries to charge desynch, good ww barb will try his own ww desynch. i generally just ww randomly that if the smiter keep charge around and hopefully he will accidentally run into my ww. If the smiter tries to tele on top of me then i assume he is really bad cuz a barb can just ww away every time if i see this happens. By using doom, it can reduce his charge speed, so he wont most likely to desynch if he stays on ur screen, which u should be doing.
Long wwing is used in every single melee duel, (besides facing hammerdin) and if u have good frw speed then u will have greater chance to desynch. Generally, if i know the person is playing offensively, i ww randomly if he is on my screen. Aggressive smiter can't beat ww barb, so as other melee builds who need to get up close, ww is just superior. Even if the person plays defensively, u can tele on top of them and ww away, so pure smiters pretty much have no chance if u have doom on. Holy freeze aura reduce his smiting speed and frw speed, so the smiter has no chance get close to u while ur ww is moving and chipping his life away.
btw, good barb doesnt need doom and can still beat good smiter, doom just makes thing easier. That's why most smiters won't duel ww barbs with doom, cuz the duel just be in favor of barbs. Good smiter pretty much needs the lifetap to beat a good ww barb.
As i said pb smiters do not get affected much by doom and if played rite can still beat a barb.
And wot u mean "Which u should be doing?" i have no problems vs smiter cuz most of the time i know what im doing, my Doom is rusting in my stash cuz i hardly ever use. and HF does not help much vs desyncers i know this from using hammerdin cuz i dueled a barb using doom and i was still desyncing ok.
WW does desync but long WW is not the answer to everything, the weakness with long ww which is done too long is a pala can simply tele in ur path flash hf and simply smite u out. and vs a tele smiter using just WW will not help u if he is good. Even vs hammerdins u cant just use a ww too long or the pala can simply desync or tele right a head of u to be greeted with a hammer.
As i said pb smiters do not get affected much by doom and if played rite can still beat a barb.
And wot u mean "Which u should be doing?" i have no problems vs smiter cuz most of the time i know what im doing, my Doom is rusting in my stash cuz i hardly ever use. and HF does not help much vs desyncers i know this from using hammerdin cuz i dueled a barb using doom and i was still desyncing ok.
WW does desync but long WW is not the answer to everything, the weakness with long ww which is done too long is a pala can simply tele in ur path flash hf and simply smite u out. and vs a tele smiter using just WW will not help u if he is good. Even vs hammerdins u cant just use a ww too long or the pala can simply desync or tele right a head of u to be greeted with a hammer.
okay now ur talking about hammerdin...hammerdin does not need to get closed as smiter does. What i mean get up close means that the smiter needs to go infront of barb to smite if ur not shift-smiting.
of course dueling hammerdin long wwing will kill u.
Whether is pb or ba smiter doesnt matter. Pb smiter doesnt get his smite speed affected but ur walking speed still get slow downed, how u gonna get up to close to a fast moving ww barb who just constantly ww away from u doing? no way. if u run that's even worse cuz u have 0 defense and 33% block.
Tele doesnt work on bvc barb as they usually use enigma as well.
im not saying smiter cant beat barb, but i say the best barb > best smiter. Barb is just more superior than smiter usually.
not really a typical bvc vs smiter setup normally is forti armour.
also from experimenting just some random testing Luder a member here was able to tele smite before the aura got into effect, bearing this is mind and how desynicing works, as charge is a very fast attack, even though i mentioned desyncing on hammerdin the charge desyncing technique is still the same principle i.e charge + vigor etc.
And u will be surpised how well tele smite work cuz it not always essential to tel on top of the player but where the WW ends or in the path.
And that is true Good BvC>Good smiter but in some extreme cases this can be the complete opposite.
But on the flip side it usally is crap smiter>crap ww barb
not really a typical bvc vs smiter setup normally is forti armour.
also from experimenting just some random testing Luder a member here was able to tele smite before the aura got into effect, bearing this is mind and how desynicing works, as charge is a very fast attack, even though i mentioned desyncing on hammerdin the charge desyncing technique is still the same principle i.e charge + vigor etc.
And u will be surpised how well tele smite work cuz it not always essential to tel on top of the player but where the WW ends or in the path.
And that is true Good BvC>Good smiter but in some extreme cases this can be the complete opposite.
But on the flip side it usally is crap smiter>crap ww barb
... i dont think bvc barb can use fort armor with base str, and u will need the str from enigma to use CoA. Generally with grief + beast the dmg should be enough.
u can ask anyone here who plays smiter just how annoying when dueling a ww barb with doom.
Using doom against hammerdin is pointless cuz it doesnt slow down the fcr and he will be teleing most of the time, and charge to dysench. That's why hammerdin doesnt really consider a "melee build", but rather a caster build with short range. Any ww barb with half of a brain knows that hammer does too much dmg, so that makes the barb to play defensively against hammerdin.
Unless ur going to suicidal attack, but u need TONS of life to do that.
... i dont think bvc barb can use fort armor with base str, and u will need the str from enigma to use CoA. Generally with grief + beast the dmg should be enough.
u can ask anyone here who plays smiter just how annoying when dueling a ww barb with doom.
Any decent BvCs won't be base str. For example, my barb can use Fortitude+Grief+Beast+TGod+CoA+Draculs.
And no, dueling a ww barb who uses Doom is not "annoying", as the barb loses a tad of damage. Try dueling versus a smiter who uses Holy Freeze and you forgot that Ravenfrost in stash. That's _annoying_.
Any decent BvCs won't be base str. For example, my barb can use Fortitude+Grief+Beast+TGod+CoA+Draculs.
And no, dueling a ww barb who uses Doom is not "annoying", as the barb loses a tad of damage. Try dueling versus a smiter who uses Holy Freeze and you forgot that Ravenfrost in stash. That's _annoying_.
ravenfrost doesnt negate slow effect from holy freeze.
and it's pretty pointless for the smiter to use holy freeze cuz u lose too much dmg from fanta and u just make the barb wwing better.
aura flashing is not possible in 1.11.
no one really build base str bvcs anymore. I used to have base strenght but there are too many limitations with base str i.e its much harder to stack when needed, using duress or forti vs hammerdin is very usefull as it helps the dmg and OW. also versus smiters the forti armour or duress is good, or use forti vs javzons.
For the extra say 1k life u have to sacrifice too much versatility and flexability.
Also i dont think raven can do anything vs holyfreeze only vs normal freeze.
not really aura flash does work if u keep it out long enough then switch out fana this should work. the whole idea is by sloing the run walk speed, this means the smiter can also land alot more hits as ur a slower moving target so this increases the chances of lifetap as well as landing more hits, + a smiter without fana still does enought dmg anyway.
morotsjos
08-06-2006, 23:06
ravenfrost doesnt negate slow effect from holy freeze.
and it's pretty pointless for the smiter to use holy freeze cuz u lose too much dmg from fanta and u just make the barb wwing better.
aura flashing is not possible in 1.11.
holy freeze is hella useful vs barbs, especially in conjunction with slow. it's easy enough to flash hf when needed just like barbs do with dooms on switch.
ravenfrost doesnt negate slow effect from holy freeze.
and it's pretty pointless for the smiter to use holy freeze cuz u lose too much dmg from fanta and u just make the barb wwing better.
aura flashing is not possible in 1.11.
Yea but Ravenfrost is my only source of CBF, so it slows me even further, so that I pretty much crawl. That's annoying. And yes, it might make it better, but when the times already has a lifetap on you, you're the only one really taking any damage.
Also i dont think raven can do anything vs holyfreeze only vs normal freeze.
Are we forgetting the fact that Holy Freeze has cold dmg, which makes you frozen? Both the slows target and cold. That gets _aaaannoying_.
hmmmm i guess base str is not verstaile. But i still use my base str barb and he still works fine vs. smiter variants, just wont kill as fast as barb using fort. My bvc barb duels pretty much any char beside another ww barb, and when i go against hammerdin, i definitely need that extra 1k life.
Most bvb barb or high dmg smiter use fort and wont be able to teleport, so i use widow sometime whcih is quite fun but breaks the meaning of melee duel.
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