Infinity with Sorc question

[chek]

I am a Meteorber in the process of making Infinity. Just an Hr and eth Thresher away. Lol for me thats about a month of work haha but still close. It will be my first and I was wondering if I have to remake my sorc. Does the -85% to resists mean I dont need to max my masteries? Should I remake with less than 17 in cold and less than 20 In fire mastery? Please explain this interesting runeword to me!

[Soepgroente]

Monsters resists are capped at -100 so if that conviction gives -85 then you'll never need more than 1 cold mastery (+skills should take it to a respectable level) and those points are better spent in ice bolt if you want more dmg. But I would advice you to pump fire as much as you can after 20 orb/1 mastery. And fire mastery you should still hold at 20 because that doesn't do -resist but extra damage, so that will work extremely well with conviction.

[chek]

Ahhh i didnt notice that fire wasent -Resist. So I should still remake and then i will have 17(5-6 without + stats) more points to pump up orb and fb/metior with right?

[slynth]

If you're willing to spend the time to remake your sorc, do it.

[Soepgroente]

Then again, 5-6 points when you're pvm and have godly quipment isn't much, so only do it if you really want it to be perfect.

[chek]

hmm well each point in fire bolt is another 14% on top of fireball. So 5 pts could be like 2000 dmg since im taking 14% on top of like lvl 33 fball. Orb is a diff story though. Ice bolt only adds 2% to orb and I am unsure if this is worth the points. It really sucks having to remake but i had an idea i wanted to try anyways. Right now i put ss on with -10 str so if I die, sure it cant go back on till i throw a +10 ring on. I want to make a +30 str 3 sock mask so that the +30 on SS cancels it out and then I will have 20 more vit. Yea its a pain in the *** if I die, but I dont really ever die. An now that i think of it 2 rings would take up less space so maybe 2 high str rings instead.

[Soepgroente]

Yea on fireball dmg it's a lot.... btw max fire bolt before mastery, as you'll be using fireball a lot more and the meteor dmg will be similar. I'm personally maxing bolt atm (20 orb, 7 master, 20 meteor, ball, 1 mastery, rest in bolt) and the ball dmg gets really nice (5,5k now I think, without skill charms, kills every normal monster in 5 hits or less, diablo goes down in literally under 2 seconds with stacked meteor/fireball spamming)

[chek]

so are you saying maxed bolt/fb/meteor does more dmg than maxed fb/meteor/mastery

[Soepgroente]

That is correct, as you'll be using ball most of the time and that bonus is 14% from bolt compared to 7% from mastery, so you'd need many points in the synergy before the point in mastery is better, but as you'll have +10 fire skills easily you'll do more dmg doing 20 in bolt. Meteor damage is slightly lower but the ball makes up for that easily as you'll be spamming that in-between meteors.

[chek]

Soepgroente... I did not realize this... I only use meteor for boss killing so I assume once I buy the infinity the -85 res will more than make up for the lost meteor dmg. I would love to have a stronger fball since i use it most for snipeing backing it up with orb for crowd control.

I have all the runes for infinity but am having trouble finding the eth 4os thresher. Hopefully I can get one soon im offering good but not many around.

How many points in bolt before mastery is better? not sure i understood that part since 14% always seems better than 7%

[chek]

I am still interested in an answer to the above question. Thanks :wink3:

[Tinitha]

Instead of re-making the meteorb... why you don't do a pure light sorc with maxblock? Conviction on infinity breaks almost all lightning immunities and it is very easy to do solo Baal , countess, council, CS and Travi with that sorc. U can allways switch gear from one sorc to another and test the difference. As personal experience... I have a lvl 95 Meteorb and a lvl 93 Pure Light... 1st one is sleeping (and will be) since I had my infinity made.
Suggestions are:
20 CB, 20 Lightning, 20 Chain, 20 Nova, 20 LightMaster, 1 Tk, 1 Tele and 1 Heat, finished at lvl 93 (last thing to max is Nova), str for storm, dex for maxblock, base energy, rest in vita.

Cheers.

Tin.

[chek]

Tinitha Ahh a interesting proposal! :thumbsup:

I assume I could Solo meph also?

Heat??? you mean warmth?

Are you using tals on your pure lit sorc as well?

What is your main attack and strategy on baal/baal minions?

I heard strong lit sorcs use griffons and uber uniqes? how many people could be in game and you could still handle baal/baals minions?

[Soepgroente]

The 7% and 14% work independantly; they multiply one another. First the synergy bonus multiplies the base damage, then the mastery multiplies the final damage. So if the synergy bonus becomes much larger than the mastery bonus you'd be better off with a point in mastery on the next level up.

Example, 100 dmg fire ball (for easy calculating) with 10 points in bolt gives 240 damage, then your 100% mastery will multiply it to 480. One more point in a synergy would bring this up to 254 base damage, then taken to 508 by mastery, and a point in mastery would bring you from 240 base damage to 496 damage. But if you've maxed out bolt and have 10 in meteor for a 420% synergy bonus with again 100% fire mastery, you'd have 520 -> 1040 damage , improving to 534 -> 1068 with a point in meteor or 520 -> 1076 with a point in mastery. So if you have a lot of +skills maxing both synergies will usually be higher damage to ball, especially if you then have a couple points to place in the mastery, but if you're shy on +skills then doing a few more mastery is better sometimes, even for ball damage :wink3:

And lightning sorcies own.

[chien]

I have my question in another thread but I think I should ask here. I have my pure light sorc with full Tal set/spirit shield with infinity merc. I've read Soepgroente's guide and debate for using full tals set. With infinity, is full tal's set still have advantage over partial tal set? Especially for pure light sorc?

Thanks!

Chien

[chek]

I would be curious to hear the answers to chien's questions also.

[koto]

First, those guides are somewhat out of date, and second, it depends on what you're doing. Griffon's Eye is a ludicrously good helm for lightning-based caster builds, and on its own pretty much defeats Full Tal's. The remaining advantages that Tal's set has - additional health, fhr, and and resists, are trivial. FHR is no longer a big issue due to the 55% available on Spirit. You can reach the 86% fhr breakpoint easily with Treks and/or charms. Max resists is easily achieved with the addition of torches, spirit, etc. And while more health is nice, it's not important enough to a sorc to sacrifice anything else for.

Infinity light sorcs can easily do solo baal runs in 8 player games. Meph and Diablo go down in like 2~3 hits after static in 8 player games (if you roll high). Max lightning damage gets up to 50k+, and you can fire it off twice per second - there really aren't many monsters that can stand up to that kind of damage. Especially since the only lightning immunes you'll see after conviction are resistance-stacked bosses (primarily LE).

[chek]

Koto whats the best gear for a lit sorc then since full tals seems out of the picture. I will list my guess below.

Helm:Griff
Armor:Enigma Mage Plate
Ammy: Maras or +2 fcr ammy
Wep: HoTo
Belt: Arach
Sheild: SS for block, Spirit for Power
Rings: Soj, FCR
Glov: Magefist.
Boots: Need wartrav here for mf.

I am unsure of the CL and L breakpoints. But with the options above could get around 135+

Thanks for more additional information

[koto]

Again, I don't know what you're planning to do with this build. Do you want to PvP? MF? Uber team?

The Block/DR from stormshield is unnecessary unless you're playing HC, or are planning to PvP primarily against bowazons and melee. If you're going to MF, I'd recommend an MF shield of some kind on switch.

Assuming Hoto/Spirit on main, that's 75% fcr already (get a perfect spirit, it's not expensive). You'll need 30% more, and then the rest of your equipment is negotiable. Griff gives you 25%, so if you wear an fcr ring you won't need fcr on anything else. So you can wear an MF belt, MF gloves, etc.

If you're going to wear Enigma all the time (which you should, considering the enormous strength bonus), remember that you don't have to put a point in teleport.

[chek]

Koto

MF only; but the occational PvP when some nub offers a lum for maras then calls me a noob and thinks his lum is like the bomb and gets me all pissed off.

I would like to have CTA/ 2nd cheap spirit on switch but maybe thats unessesary.

So the bp is only 105%?

the MF gear you suggest is pretty solid. I can always Topaz the helm as well.

Helm:Griff(Topaz) 24%
Armor:Enigma Mage Plate 90%
Ammy: Maras
Wep: HoTo
Belt: Arach
Sheild: Spirit
Rings: Soj, Nagel 30%
Glov: Magefist
Boots: Wartrav 50%

Add gheeds 40% and thats ~ 240 mf. I could get the rest with charms or like you said have a switch with mf items. I like to have alot of + skills for killing speed. I like to do runs fast starting at Baal down to Andy skipping Diablo. If i find I have too much FCR or Overpowered its easy to switch out arach and magefist.

[koto]

Breakpoint for normal cast is 105%, breakpoint for CL/L is 117%. If you want fastest possible lightning, keep Arach's. Hoto+spirit+griff+arach = 40+35+25+20 = 120%. Magefist isn't really necessary at all. If you're running low on mana, frostburns would be a better choice. Otherwise just use chance guards.

The biggest problem is that traditionally a large chunk of MF has come from weapon/shield switch. Consider dual-isted Ali-Baba + Rhyme (or in extreme cases, quad-isted monarchs) - that almost doubles your current mf%.

Lightning sorcs don't need tons of +skills to kill fast, because they have very high damage naturally. It's very easy to reach 30k lightning damage, and that's all you really need, especially for 1-player mf games.

[chek]

Yes difinatly for 1 player CTA is not needed. But for MF it is generally agreed that ~300 is fine and you have degrading benifits thereafter. If i get to ~300 with charms and have CTA on switch I could bum rush pub games and kill Baal with ppl in game gaining more drops from his minions.

Is that a good plan?

[Tinitha]

@Chek:

Answering your questions...

Sure, u can solo meph too.
And toast lvl3 durance of hate council guys as they lose their light immunity.

Heat->Warmth... sry... English is not my first language... as u can see.

No Tal's set on light sorc, m8. Will tell you which gear I use l8r.

Baal minions strategy: No strategy... chain... and chain again... and again... and they die. All of them. Sometimes Lister is light immune... then I tk him and merc takes care without problems.
Baal strategy: 4 statics, 5 lightnings. He dies too.

Now, let's talk about gear for solo Baalruns:

Sorc is lvl93 with lightning and sinergies maxed, light mastery maxed, 1 tk, 1 tele, 1 warmth :rolleyes:
Next 2 skills will be thunderstorm 1 and frozen armor 1.
No ES, as I prefer maxblock way.
Sorc built will be over for me at lvl 95.

2 options for me:
(1) Safety: shako umed, mara's, hoto, viper upg umed, storm umed, upg frosties, 2xsoj, thundergod's, upg waterwalks. On switch: CTA and spirit shield. All this gives me 70FCR, maxblock, 40% damage reduction, stacked resists over 110, 35K Lightning damage, 13K Chain damage.
(2) Speed: +3 light Tiara with life and fire res, mara's, eschuta's with light rbf, viper upg umed, 35%FCR spirit shield, upg magefists, 2xsoj, thundergod's, upg waterwalks. All this gives >117FCR, maxed resists, 46K lightning damage, 16K chain damage.

Charms on both setups: torch, anni, 6 lightskillers life, 1 mana life gc, rest mana life scs. (3 squares free)
Life for both setups is around 2000... mana around 1500 (ofc, with CTA BO)

Merc: Act 2 holy freeze
Gear: eth ca infinity, eth hf plate fortitude, upg eth gaze
damage is around 6K.

I have arach, but I prefer on both setups to ignore souls... so I use Thundergod's. I don't have griff. That would change my setup for sure.

I hope this helps.

Cheers.

Tin.

[chek]

Tin thank you for the excellent detail:grin:! If I am going to make a Lit sorc I would like to use griff since so many have said it is the best by far. Dont you warp faster than the souls can hit you? or is tgods an in case of lag option.

what did you think of this idea.

Helm:Griff(Topaz) 24%mf 25%fcr
Armor:Enigma Mage Plate 90%mf
Ammy: Maras
Wep: HoTo 40%fcr
Belt: Arach 20%fcr
Sheild: Spirit 35%fcr
Rings: Soj, Nagel 30%mf (Wisp for baal run)
Glov: Chance Guard 40%mf
Boots: Wartrav 50%mf

120% FCR
234mf + Gheeds(40%mf) + 4x(7%)mfsc = 302%mf

Since I want to mf and pick up lots of stuff I wouldent have 6 light skillers but maybe 1 or 2 with life/mana sc's.

Is this build still viable without so many skillers? It has more mf than your build so sacrafices a bit.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

I really don't see a use for enigma. I'd rather get something like CoH. You don't need much from enigma (only the +2 skills). The +str is easily satisfied by actually putting more hard points in strength. But, with the rest of your gear, it wouldn't be a HORRIBLE choice. You should be able to do good damage, even without skillers. My friend did 10k light with full tals and 2 sojs.... and you have WAY more skills/+% than him.

[koto]

First, I'm assuming a vit build. In that case you should have 2k+ health after BO - meaning that with 75% resists, souls won't be an issue, even without any absorb. You can avoid lightning by just walking to the side. Teleporting is a bad idea against packs since there will usually be a bolt going towards you as you exit your teleport.

If you can get your resists elsewhere, Enigma is a superior armor, since it saves you 70+ points in str, and provides more MF (which is what this guy wants). Enigma also gives you +1 to teleport, which saves you a few points if you're not going for ES.

10k is extremely low for a light sorc. You really want 30k+ to maintain good killing speed. Remember, lightning damage range is enormous, so your average damage is basically half your maximum. On a roll of 1-10k, your average damage is a mere 5k - my zon's 1pt strafe does that much damage.

[chek]

Yea I am not sure what the dmg will be with this build but I would like enigma for the str and mf. I think my res might be low but I can add a couple 5% all res charms if needed.

at lvl 90 i will get like +68 str so thats +68 more pts I can put into vit. Even with sorc that is nothing to shake a stick at.

I should be able to get a 5/6 cta pretty easy so the 2k life shouldent be a problem at all.

I will probably build this in a month or so when I can gather all the gear. Finding good griff's is a pain. I will be continually checking and updating on this thread feel free to comment I will reply.

[Tinitha]

Tin thank you for the excellent detail:grin:! If I am going to make a Lit sorc I would like to use griff since so many have said it is the best by far..

I agree. I'll use one as soon as I get one.

Dont you warp faster than the souls can hit you? or is tgods an in case of lag option.

I don't have lag at all... and even with >117FCR setup, I often get hit by 1 or 2 souls. There are some places where the souls are deadly: dead ends, and cross corridors. In there u will probably get hit, if this happens, u will need some absorb to stay alive.

what did you think of this idea.

Helm:Griff(Topaz) 24%mf 25%fcr
Armor:Enigma Mage Plate 90%mf
Ammy: Maras
Wep: HoTo 40%fcr
Belt: Arach 20%fcr
Sheild: Spirit 35%fcr
Rings: Soj, Nagel 30%mf (Wisp for baal run)
Glov: Chance Guard 40%mf
Boots: Wartrav 50%mf

120% FCR
234mf + Gheeds(40%mf) + 4x(7%)mfsc = 302%mf

Since I want to mf and pick up lots of stuff I wouldent have 6 light skillers but maybe 1 or 2 with life/mana sc's..
Is this build still viable without so many skillers? It has more mf than your build so sacrafices a bit.

Well... as MF setup it has the problem of damage dealt, so I think u need a bit more of killing power to do the job. This built will do it but slowly... that means less MF in absolute terms.
As an option...
I suggest you to have dual setups for MF and Kill, and do fast baalruns and tp back to town to switch gear for maxed MF before last hit. It will take only 10-15s to switch an u can do both things: max damage and max MF.

But it's worth a try.
Cheers.

Tin

[chek]

Thanks again Tin,

I can use wisp to run to throne if its a problem after bo and max lit rez. Remember with nigma I will have a bit more life. I dont expect to run into too many dead ends because I have a keen sense of what direction to go :wink3:

As for damage if you were to calculate griffons in properly I believe this build would be as much damage as your speed sorc or more. Without the gear and formulas I am unable to verify or deny this though.

I am currently building a gg hammerdin so I cannot build this for 1-1.5 months but I will continue to check this thread and respond. :grin:

[koto]

Okay, here's how to tell if souls will be a problem: do you have 75% resists? Do you have more than 2k health? If so, you're fine. On that rare occasion where a bosspack spawns with conviction, put on a wisp.

Your build will have enough damage, don't worry.