what pvper without enigma

[asdzxc]

Is there any pvp build without enigma that can beat most pvp builds. I spend a lot of time calculating,rebuilding adapting but i can not think of a build that is effective without enigma. May be templar but he is easy sorbed(bm). Please help me i am very tired of all this ****s.

[stoutewolf]

werewolf druid, they cant tele in werewform so there is no need for one:grin:

[Wuben]

Blizz sorc. Really.

[asdzxc]

Blizz sorc. Really.
i am not big fan of sorces. Hm werewolf intrigues me. How effective is he against sorc, hammers and smitters ?

[MegaFlame]

A liberator doesn't need to use enigma, since he can desyn charge which is nastier than tele'ing in many cases.

[Wuben]

But you need enigma anyways on a liberator.

[kingdryland]

My input. Non enigma builds are all that can't tele (shifters) ,that can tele even without it (sorcs) and melee only or melee oriented that don't need to tele and/or are better off with something like fortitude or whatnot. Somewhere in between are amazons that can tele but slowly.

[stoutewolf]

i am not big fan of sorces. Hm werewolf intrigues me. How effective is he against sorc, hammers and smitters ?
i have no problem with a hammerdin, smiters are very hard though.Sorcs arent that much of a problem most of the times. Werewolves rely alot on duell skills though and i am not the average druid player i think:wink3:

[asdzxc]

i have no problem with a hammerdin, smiters are very hard though.Sorcs arent that much of a problem most of the times. Werewolves rely alot on duell skills though and i am not the average druid player i think:wink3:
sorcs not a problem. What about defensive sorcs, who blast you with fire balls two screens away.

[stoutewolf]

sorcs not a problem. What about defensive sorcs, who blast you with fire balls two screens away.
make them offen sive, they cant hit you that way so there is no need to play like that, if they come close just rabies them or kill them with fury. Both are 1 hit killers mostly

[kmk-soldier]

hmz dont think that the guy has the same items then you stoute :)
you have one of the best druids and quite good control i heard, so its for you a lot easier then for a starter

would suggest a sorc

[asdzxc]

make them offen sive, they cant hit you that way so there is no need to play like that, if they come close just rabies them or kill them with fury. Both are 1 hit killers mostly
I am not a starter i play diablo since 1.07. But in 1.10 and 1.11 almost everthing changes. Caster become overpowered(maybe not the right word) and without enigma a lot of duels are imposible. You kill a sorc in single fury. How about es build with massive mana. And sorc can make their balls invisible(very easy). They can hit you without getting too close. I don't know what kind of sorc you have dueled but in my private serv there is six or seven sorc with mad skills.

[pedu]

I think rabies cuts through their mana shield, and eats right off their life. Just need that one hit :thumbsup:

[Ce Olba]

I am not a starter i play diablo since 1.07. But in 1.10 and 1.11 almost everthing changes. Caster become overpowered(maybe not the right word) and without enigma a lot of duels are imposible. You kill a sorc in single fury. How about es build with massive mana. And sorc can make their balls invisible(very easy). They can hit you without getting too close. I don't know what kind of sorc you have dueled but in my private serv there is six or seven sorc with mad skills.

An ES fb sorc has at most like 23k damage. That's 3910 after PvP penalty, and 391 after 90% FR. Now, Stoute's druid has 10k life, that's 10 000/391=25.5-> 26 fbs to kill him. He needs 1 hit. And who says he cannot force you on the offense somehow? Also, it's pretty easy to avoid FBs, unless they are invisible.

[asdzxc]

I think rabies cuts through their mana shield, and eats right off their life. Just need that one hit :thumbsup:
oh ya i forgot about that skill. Yes it pierce through es and kills low life sorc. But you just can't get that hit. And if sorcs survives rubbies you probably won't have second chance.

[asdzxc]

An ES fb sorc has at most like 23k damage. That's 3910 after PvP penalty, and 391 after 90% FR. Now, Stoute's druid has 10k life, that's 10 000/391=25.5-> 26 fbs to kill him. He needs 1 hit. And who says he cannot force you on the offense somehow? Also, it's pretty easy to avoid FBs, unless they are invisible.
how do you think dru can get the hit if sorcs don't come to your srceen. And exactly how far 5 ranged weapons can hit.

[riath]

how do you think dru can get the hit if sorcs don't come to your srceen. And exactly how far 5 ranged weapons can hit.

The wolf has large r/w, making dodging fireballs quite easy when the sorc is offscreen. The druid might not be able to hit the sorc, but the sorc can't hit the druid, which means the sorc would have to come closer to land any hits.

My vote for a non-enigma pvper would be a Libby.

[Von Lazuli]

How about a Bramble WWsin?

Or a BvB?

Laz

[RetroStar]

T/V V/T or Liberator.

[MrGoth]

Any barb with a single point in leap or leap attack and who knows how to use it wont really need enigma. This hurts bvc builds who like to tele & ww, but it doesnt kill them...just makes catching someone harder {or more fun, depends on how you see it}.

Also any assassin with df might not need to use enigma, depending on her build. Flying out of traps range on someones merc might be bad if it destroys all your traps.


I really only find teleport useful for getting away from a bone prison or when i'm cornered / being locked on & need to jump in a house.



If your just against enigma, and not against teleport in a duel, you can always just use a naj's staff on switch or some charged amulet. The staff would be my choice, lots of charges & about 1k per charge repair cost.

[arbing]

Any barb with a single point in leap or leap attack and who knows how to use it wont really need enigma. This hurts bvc builds who like to tele & ww, but it doesnt kill them...just makes catching someone harder {or more fun, depends on how you see it}.

Also any assassin with df might not need to use enigma, depending on her build. Flying out of traps range on someones merc might be bad if it destroys all your traps.


I really only find teleport useful for getting away from a bone prison or when i'm cornered / being locked on & need to jump in a house.



If your just against enigma, and not against teleport in a duel, you can always just use a naj's staff on switch or some charged amulet. The staff would be my choice, lots of charges & about 1k per charge repair cost.

not any good caster is gonna get caught by a barb's leap or leap attack if it's for mobility. have you seen how slow the barb leap is when it's leap to a long distance?

teleport is useful in offensive side for any bvc... or for any barb that have to 'catch' the caster..... leap/ leap attack is NOT enough for any half decent casters. try leap to a nec from a long distance. He'll tele out and spam tons of bone spirits near where you are landing and when you land... bam eat alot of spirits at the instant.

[MrGoth]

You sort of make it out to be like a barb leaping towards a necro as an offensive ground covering tactic...

You must not have been around any desynch barbs, their main way of getting up close and personal is running towards {usually in some predetermined path, for a necro tis usually circular}, with lots of %frw, leaping near enough here and there to keep the guy locked up a tid bit so they dont just sit there and spam or run, and when in range ww threw. Run off with a trail of white magic following em and repeat.

I havnt dueled with a real barb for a very long time, and I'm not down with all the current tactics, but I'm pretty sure that this is still used. I mean not every bvc just tele's & ww's, theres alot of foot movement too. Some simply don't want to rely on it, and with enough practice I'm sure they can handle their own just as good as some tele barb can.

[blobswannabe]

i have no problem with a hammerdin, smiters are very hard though.Sorcs arent that much of a problem most of the times. Werewolves rely alot on duell skills though and i am not the average druid player i think:wink3:

I play on us.west nl. I heard david let you use his wolf why don't you duel me and prove to me that your skills can somehow make werewovles beat other builds. i'll even handicap myself by using no shield on my othter chars and only 1 axe on my bvc.

[blobswannabe]

Any barb with a single point in leap or leap attack and who knows how to use it wont really need enigma. This hurts bvc builds who like to tele & ww, but it doesnt kill them...just makes catching someone harder {or more fun, depends on how you see it}.

Also any assassin with df might not need to use enigma, depending on her build. Flying out of traps range on someones merc might be bad if it destroys all your traps.


I really only find teleport useful for getting away from a bone prison or when i'm cornered / being locked on & need to jump in a house.



If your just against enigma, and not against teleport in a duel, you can always just use a naj's staff on switch or some charged amulet. The staff would be my choice, lots of charges & about 1k per charge repair cost.

barbs and windy are argueable the 2 builds that benefit from enigma the most. The reason barbs are able to stay competitive after all that melee nerfing and castor boosting is cuz they now have teleport. If you take away that, you are screwed agaisnt any ranged casters. Mind you in 09 there weren't such builds and tele bone mancers with 6k damage or 20k damage fb sorcs. In 09 barbs could pretty much kill anyone not a barb in 1 ww and only zons and other barbs could deal siganificant damage to them.

[stoutewolf]

I play on us.west nl. I heard david let you use his wolf why don't you duel me and prove to me that your skills can somehow make werewovles beat other builds. i'll even handicap myself by using no shield on my othter chars and only 1 axe on my bvc.
hmm, cant you use an char @ europe so i can use my own wolf? I am really used to him.
Tell mw what build the char is btw, fury/rabies and what equip?

i really hope you can find a char @ europe so we can play instead @ east/west

[stoutewolf]

I play on us.west nl. I heard david let you use his wolf why don't you duel me and prove to me that your skills can somehow make werewovles beat other builds. i'll even handicap myself by using no shield on my othter chars and only 1 axe on my bvc.
double post sry

[blobswannabe]

hmm, cant you use an char @ europe so i can use my own wolf? I am really used to him.
Tell mw what build the char is btw, fury/rabies and what equip?

i thought redempt said he let you use his wolf and i think his druid is at least decently equiped. (has high 30 lifers etc) tomb reaver,ebotd,grief,etc.and i don't have any char on europ realm.

Like i said since his druid problaby isn't quite as good as yours but i'll handicap myself by using half gear or no charms. I just don't see how wolves can beat anyone half decent. The most that a decked out druid has done to me was take to 1/7 of my bvc's life before dying or going to akara when i was being chased around by 3 hammerdins. And i'd feel even guiltier to use another against them.

[stoutewolf]

i thought redempt said he let you use his wolf and i think his druid is at least decently equiped. (has high 30 lifers etc) tomb reaver,ebotd,grief,etc.and i don't have any char on europ realm.

Like i said since his druid problaby isn't quite as good as yours but i'll handicap myself by using half gear or no charms. I just don't see how wolves can beat anyone half decent. The most that a decked out druid has done to me was take to 1/7 of my bvc's life before dying or going to akara when i was being chased around by 3 hammerdins. And i'd feel even guiltier to use another against them.
whisper me the account+password and lets check the gear of the wolf etc...maybe some nice chit chat

[blobswannabe]

whisper me the account+password and lets check the gear of the wolf etc...maybe some nice chit chat

it's not my acount. oops i meant dkay, dkay is his forum name redempt is his bnet account with the druid.

[stoutewolf]

it's not my acount. oops i meant dkay, dkay is his forum name redempt is his bnet account with the druid.
ok i will whisper him..are u on west or east? whats ur account?

[blobswannabe]

ok i will whisper him..are u on west or east? whats ur account?

west i have a lot of different ones cuz i spread all my chars out. But most of them should be on his f/l but i'll tell you anyway. die.hard , red[pr], royalpaladin14 are some of the main ones.

[stoutewolf]

west i have a lot of different ones cuz i spread all my chars out. But most of them should be on his f/l but i'll tell you anyway. die.hard , red[pr], royalpaladin14 are some of the main ones.
you can reach me @ *mfbiatch (europe and west account) add me @ msn :boudewijnbroers@hotmail.com

[Noite Escura]

An ES fb sorc has at most like 23k damage. That's 3910 after PvP penalty, and 391 after 90% FR. Now, Stoute's druid has 10k life, that's 10 000/391=25.5-> 26 fbs to kill him. He needs 1 hit. And who says he cannot force you on the offense somehow? Also, it's pretty easy to avoid FBs, unless they are invisible.
I'm not familiar with Druid skills, but wouldn't equiping Venom Ward make the Sorc almost untouched by Rabies?

[stoutewolf]

I'm not familiar with Druid skills, but wouldn't equiping Venom Ward make the Sorc almost untouched by Rabies?
they have fury as backup skill, venom ward doesnt have alot of block so fury will kill her easily:grin:

[kingdryland]

they have fury as backup skill, venom ward doesnt have alot of block so fury will kill her easily:grin:

Venom ward,the armor,has not alot of block? :shocked:

[Glorft]

Fury/Rabies druids are strong - nobody concerns a wolf as a dangerous dueler but i can tell you they are if the person on the keyboard and infront of the monitor knows what he's doing . There are alot of characters that could kill without enigma but in a more difficult way and be less efficient but this doesnt mean that they wouldnt. My opinion is that a charecter is not so dependant from the items - aka enigma - but from the skills that the person controling the hero posesses. Correct me if im in a mind blurr.

[stoutewolf]

Venom ward,the armor,has not alot of block? :shocked:
bweh my bad, dunno why but i was thinking he ment the shield :O. Well rabies cant be sorbed and nor poison length reduced will work on rabies.

[WhiteAlien]

If not secret. What's your rabies dmg per sec and total over xx sec?

Never dueled serious wolf so I want to be ready if I'll see one :smiley:

[arbing]

You sort of make it out to be like a barb leaping towards a necro as an offensive ground covering tactic...

You must not have been around any desynch barbs, their main way of getting up close and personal is running towards {usually in some predetermined path, for a necro tis usually circular}, with lots of %frw, leaping near enough here and there to keep the guy locked up a tid bit so they dont just sit there and spam or run, and when in range ww threw. Run off with a trail of white magic following em and repeat.

I havnt dueled with a real barb for a very long time, and I'm not down with all the current tactics, but I'm pretty sure that this is still used. I mean not every bvc just tele's & ww's, theres alot of foot movement too. Some simply don't want to rely on it, and with enough practice I'm sure they can handle their own just as good as some tele barb can.

bone prison/ wall screw desynch pretty bad, yes i seen a couple (some of them are decent) of 200frw barbs with frenzy on duel a relatively good bone nec on uswest, and no they cannot beat a good bone nec just by running when they are playing defensive... spam 1-2 spirit tele out of your screen. spam some ibs and comtinue playing defensive. and no you cannot get a good necro/ sorc 'locked up' by using run/walk only and you will most likely not able to be in range to ww 'threw' them.

also a good tactic for bone nec if the barb does not have enigma/ tele is iron maiden you first, spam a couple of bone prison around. if you ww the bone prison you're dead, if you use leap and leap out of the prison, he can spam tons of bone spirit and when you land you take tons of damage from spirit. I didnt come up with this tactic, i saw it from that duel. And the barb got no chance of winning if the bone nec does this trick.

[blobswannabe]

bone prison/ wall screw desynch pretty bad, yes i seen a couple (some of them are decent) of 200frw barbs with frenzy on duel a relatively good bone nec on uswest, and no they cannot beat a good bone nec just by running when they are playing defensive... spam 1-2 spirit tele out of your screen. spam some ibs and comtinue playing defensive. and no you cannot get a good necro/ sorc 'locked up' by using run/walk only and you will most likely not able to be in range to ww 'threw' them.

also a good tactic for bone nec if the barb does not have enigma/ tele is iron maiden you first, spam a couple of bone prison around. if you ww the bone prison you're dead, if you use leap and leap out of the prison, he can spam tons of bone spirit and when you land you take tons of damage from spirit. I didnt come up with this tactic, i saw it from that duel. And the barb got no chance of winning if the bone nec does this trick.

tele frenzy is better than that. u can chainlock frenzy people pretty easily since frenzy makes you run almost at tele speed u won't lose the lock easily. also if your str bugged frenzy can make u go invisible. desynch + invisible frenzy bug +chain lock frenzy = 320489302843029 hacking accusations.

[stoutewolf]

If not secret. What's your rabies dmg per sec and total over xx sec?

Never dueled serious wolf so I want to be ready if I'll see one :smiley:
30k poison over 21.6 seconds if i remem the time right. -res isnt factored in:grin:

[sam beam]

my most effective non-enigma oriented character has been a pure crusader (charger), i was able to kill all but the quickest sorcs and absolutely every zealer i ever encountered. other classes were handled at about a 50:50 rate, but i had trouble beating even the worst ww/bvc barbs. if you would like a gear setup/ skill allocation, i would gladly provide one.