Ladder VS. Non-Ladder

[XAndrewX]

So whats the difference between Ladder and Non-Ladder other than your being ranked in Ladder? I asked my friend the other day, and he said that you cant hack things like items or chararacters on Ladder, but you can on Non-Ladder. Is this true. Also why do you prefer Ladder (or Non-Ladder)?

[Dagnome]

The diffrence with ladder and "open B-net" is just that. Ladder is closed Battle net as opposed to open. People can hack easily on open beacuse the chars are stored on their PC as opposed to on the Blizzard servers. People who play "closed B-net" haveto save their shars onto the server which makes them relitivly impossible to hack, edit, or anythign like that. That is why hacked items are never a problem in closed b-net. There is no diffrence between non ladder and ladder execpt for, as you said, the ranking. I prefer Ladder beacuse thats where the more experienced people are, or just the crazy ones. The problem is you get people like these CoF guys who will level one guy to get on the ladder first. You really need to be playing the ladder from the start and power level to get on the top. I have been thinking of switching to non ladder just beacuse I dont really wanna remake all my guys, start with nothing, just to attempt to get a spot on the ladder. I only play ladder beacuse my friends do.

[XAndrewX]

The diffrence with ladder and "open B-net" is just that. Ladder is closed Battle net as opposed to open. People can hack easily on open beacuse the chars are stored on their PC as opposed to on the Blizzard servers. People who play "closed B-net" haveto save their shars onto the server which makes them relitivly impossible to hack, edit, or anythign like that. That is why hacked items are never a problem in closed b-net. There is no diffrence between non ladder and ladder execpt for, as you said, the ranking. I prefer Ladder beacuse thats where the more experienced people are, or just the crazy ones. The problem is you get people like these CoF guys who will level one guy to get on the ladder first. You really need to be playing the ladder from the start and power level to get on the top. I have been thinking of switching to non ladder just beacuse I dont really wanna remake all my guys, start with nothing, just to attempt to get a spot on the ladder. I only play ladder beacuse my friends do.

Yea I see your point about wanting to switch. The only thing is I love the fact that its hard to hack on Ladder. I am actually excited for the Ladder season to start. IDC if Im on the ladder or not, I just like the fact that everyone will have nothing. Its new and fun.

[Dagnome]

Ya but even if you are playing Non-ladder its the same thing. Anything but open Battlnet is saved on servers and is relativly impossible to hack.

[fledgeling]

Dagnome, you are a noob and please stop posting in this thread.

Ladder and non-ladder characters are both stored on bnet servers.

after a certain time of playing, ladder characters become non-ladder (a new ladder season starts)
so all the wealth accumulated on Ladder becomes nl (you cant bring chars from one to other, the only transition is made by blizzard once per ~1,5 year)

ladder is 'fresh' when the season starts everyone has 0 items, while on non-ladder people accumulated LOTs of items

some of these items are so old, that they have really strange statistics (so called preLOD items for example)
also on non-ladder there are lots of duped items from the long past

people can dupe on classic ladder too, but noone (?) really does it, because there are no shops for classic diablo
on LOD, in the ladder you also have some additional things (new runewords), but these dont exist in classic

playing on NL means meeting lots of rich ppl wearing dupes, they will probably give you nice items for free, since they have godly dupes
you will never become as good as them however (well, you can if you find better items, but it's really hard to get something better than the best dupes)

on ladder - never played there actually - everyone is probably poorer, everything is more expensive (altho the season started quite a long time ago and there are lots of rich players)





LOD ladder = the place of the mass dupe

NL classic = place where the OLD dupes are

also Dagnome's belief that hacking "closed bnet" is impossible is quite funny, because such things occured all the time during the history of diablo.
Personally I believe that like 10-20% of the runes on LOD-ladder are dupes created by the shops, in order to pay the players for other items. (they dont dupe 100 chakos but dupe 1000 runes - and buy 100 chakos, 100 wizardspikes, 100...)

also if bnet cant be hacked, explain me why there are so many 32020 on LOD
or how did the bugged items on LOD exist

[Dagnome]

I have been playing Diablo 2 since its release, I know where I stand on the "experience ladder". I dont play LOD but classic had the same bugged item issue and that isnt from hacking, that is from mistake in coding/errors in game. This will be fixed eventualy if Blizz hasnt givin up on Diablo 2. I dont play LOD so I dont know how many morons are on their, I do know classic and have never run into any "duped" items. I know in its earlier patches it has been easier to dupe things. The way people go about duping now, I wouldnt know. I play Ladder, only ladder.

[WarlockCC]

Ya but even if you are playing Non-ladder its the same thing. Anything but open Battlnet is saved on servers and is relativly impossible to hack.
There is open Battlenet, which you described perfectly. Chars stored on one's own computer.
And there is closed Battlenet where the chars are stored on the battle.net servers. I would like to elaborate on this though. Just to define it a bit further.
Closed battle.net is divided into Ladder and non-Ladder.
non-Ladder is where all the characters of previous Ladder seasons are.
Ladder is where all the current ladder characters are.

Since there have been methods to copy items in the past, certain unscupulous people have duplicated(copied) or duped items which they thought where good.
These copies, and even their original, are called dupes. These dupes are not supposed to exist and where made with illegal, according to the terms of use, third party programs. They are not to be promoted or glorified on these forums for obvious reasons(they damage the Diablo economy).

Ladder is, as far as I know, clean of these dupes. That is a big reason why people play Ladder, because everything there is legit, weather or not you win a duel depends on your skill at skilling/playing a char, the luck you have had with finding or trading items and the luck you have with hitting your opponent.

Another reason why people play Ladder is because it's nice to have a fresh start where everybody starts with the same 2 scrolls and 4 potions. Unlike non-ladder where people could have characters which are several years old and all the items that go with it. To some it is a daunting task to begin in that already thriving economy with nothing and work your way trough it.

Personally, I just play non-ladder, but I understand very well why people play Ladder.

At the end of a Ladder season, all Ladder characters are simply moved to the non-ladder section because they are then last season's Ladder characters. :)
Ladder is then clean again and everybody starts over from scratch on the Ladder. You can still play your 'old' Ladder characters, they just can't mix (or twink) your new Ladder characters.

[Dagnome]

So your saying that they are "duped" with third party programs? That is could be applied to any sort of closed b-net. That is something we all cant avoid, many people go out of their way to find ways to hack a game. Please note, I said its relativly impossible to hack. Like I said, some people go out fo their way to hack a game, they make it a mission.

[fredsta54]

So your saying that they are "duped" with third party programs? That is could be applied to any sort of closed b-net. That is something we all cant avoid, many people go out of their way to find ways to hack a game. Please note, I said its relativly impossible to hack. Like I said, some people go out fo their way to hack a game, they make it a mission.

lots of ppl hack on classic and lod ladder

mh, fc, aa, godmode, etc.





Fred

[imakeigloospat]

There is open Battlenet, which you described perfectly. Chars stored on one's own computer.
And there is closed Battlenet where the chars are stored on the battle.net servers. I would like to elaborate on this though. Just to define it a bit further.
Closed battle.net is divided into Ladder and non-Ladder.
non-Ladder is where all the characters of previous Ladder seasons are.
Ladder is where all the current ladder characters are.

Since there have been methods to copy items in the past, certain unscupulous people have duplicated(copied) or duped items which they thought where good.
These copies, and even their original, are called dupes. These dupes are not supposed to exist and where made with illegal, according to the terms of use, third party programs. They are not to be promoted or glorified on these forums for obvious reasons(they damage the Diablo economy).

Ladder is, as far as I know, clean of these dupes. That is a big reason why people play Ladder, because everything there is legit, weather or not you win a duel depends on your skill at skilling/playing a char, the luck you have had with finding or trading items and the luck you have with hitting your opponent.

Another reason why people play Ladder is because it's nice to have a fresh start where everybody starts with the same 2 scrolls and 4 potions. Unlike non-ladder where people could have characters which are several years old and all the items that go with it. To some it is a daunting task to begin in that already thriving economy with nothing and work your way trough it.

Personally, I just play non-ladder, but I understand very well why people play Ladder.

At the end of a Ladder season, all Ladder characters are simply moved to the non-ladder section because they are then last season's Ladder characters. :)
Ladder is then clean again and everybody starts over from scratch on the Ladder. You can still play your 'old' Ladder characters, they just can't mix (or twink) your new Ladder characters.Ladder isn't clean from dupes. When the reset of ladder was, you could transfer items from NL over to L in a 5min period.

[WarlockCC]

So your saying that they are "duped" with third party programs? That is could be applied to any sort of closed b-net. That is something we all cant avoid, many people go out of their way to find ways to hack a game. Please note, I said its relativly impossible to hack. Like I said, some people go out fo their way to hack a game, they make it a mission.
Some people made a few bucks selling their duped Diablo items on e-bay, that is why they went trough so much trouble to hack. All for minute monetary gain.

Also, as Fledgeling mentioned there are indeed preLod items in non-ladder.
Things like uniques without a level requirement.
Rare rings which give elemental damage.
Rare boots which give str.
-40 req mod
Rings with 30+ res of any one type
These are just a few of the kind of items which can't drop anymore.

[WarlockCC]

Ladder isn't clean from dupes. When the reset of ladder was, you could transfer items from NL over to L in a 5min period.
OK, so people preaching that Ladder is a utopian society where no duping or dupes exist are either full of it or out of the loop.
Well, it's good to know how little it actually differs, thanks for the heads up. I almost propegated the naive dream of a hackfree online game.

So in that case, the question stands to those who play Ladder. Why ? :)
Because Blizz defaulted the ladder checkbox to on ?

---===---
Excuse my second post in the same thread within ten minutes.

[Dagnome]

That could be true. These games were realeased a while ago, about 6 years? There are flaws in every game. The question is, who exploits them or not. Its hard being a legit player.

[fledgeling]

as far as I remember there was a working classic duping method in 1.10
working on ladder of course

classic ladder is believed to be "dupe free" because, well all the dupe methods are made for LOD and there are no old dupes

demand creates supply

LOD economy is totally harmed, some of the runewords would be very hard to create without mass duped runes etc

[Dacar92]

Dagnome, you are a noob and please stop posting in this thread.


This is what I am talking about! Is this kind of personal attack really necessary? Go elsewhere. I am tired of it.





.

Personally I believe that like 10-20% of the runes on LOD-ladder are dupes...

I would say that 60 - 70% of high runes are dupes on ladder. Why are there so many CoH's? So many BoTD's? You can't tell me all those vex's, zods and bers fell in legit games.

[XAndrewX]

LOL
What happened to just dropping an item (or gold) and <b>right</b> when you pick it up you click on a potion to supe it. Oh the says when duping was o so easy.

I will just edit out that comment for now...Dacar

[Zodijackyl]

Some people made a few bucks selling their duped Diablo items on e-bay, that is why they went trough so much trouble to hack. All for minute monetary gain.

Without duping, I've made over $4000 selling D2 items, mainly ones from old ladders or stuff I would never use. I enjoy PvM, and I find alot of items that I'll never use, but can get me some cash. Even if I couldn't sell, I'd still play the game because it's fun.
With duping, it would be a hell of a lot more. One well known duper,..., made near $20,000 a year off duping D2 items in not much time.

[Kiwi Legend]

Without duping, I've made over $4000 selling D2 items, mainly ones from old ladders or stuff I would never use. I enjoy PvM, and I find alot of items that I'll never use, but can get me some cash. Even if I couldn't sell, I'd still play the game because it's fun.
With duping, it would be a hell of a lot more. One well known duper, ..., made near $20,000 a year off duping D2 items in not much time.


bullocks...

[Dagnome]

Ok, I think people are getting a little off topic. This thread needs to swing back on or be closed. We are not here to dicuss the profits that can be made from playing D2.

*Notes the recent posts about duping and money made*

[WarlockCC]

I think this isn't far off topic.
Original topic : Why play Ladder or non-ladder.
Ladder play reason : dupes in non-ladder
Then the arguement was brought forth that there was duping in ladder.
Then the question of why people would dupe.
Followed by the answer of minute monetairy gain.
And the amount was mentioned merely I think to show that for a very select few, and we are talking like one in 100000 people, the gain was not minute. And one could also have gotten this trough fair play.

Imho this is just natural development and/or progression of this forum thread.
But I am open to input as to how you would see this thread develop. Kindly enlighten me.

[vasya]

Dagnome, you are a noob and please stop posting in this thread.

Ladder and non-ladder characters are both stored on bnet servers.

after a certain time of playing, ladder characters become non-ladder (a new ladder season starts)
so all the wealth accumulated on Ladder becomes nl (you cant bring chars from one to other, the only transition is made by blizzard once per ~1,5 year)

ladder is 'fresh' when the season starts everyone has 0 items, while on non-ladder people accumulated LOTs of items

some of these items are so old, that they have really strange statistics (so called preLOD items for example)
also on non-ladder there are lots of duped items from the long past

people can dupe on classic ladder too, but noone (?) really does it, because there are no shops for classic diablo
on LOD, in the ladder you also have some additional things (new runewords), but these dont exist in classic

playing on NL means meeting lots of rich ppl wearing dupes, they will probably give you nice items for free, since they have godly dupes
you will never become as good as them however (well, you can if you find better items, but it's really hard to get something better than the best dupes)

on ladder - never played there actually - everyone is probably poorer, everything is more expensive (altho the season started quite a long time ago and there are lots of rich players)





LOD ladder = the place of the mass dupe

NL classic = place where the OLD dupes are

also Dagnome's belief that hacking "closed bnet" is impossible is quite funny, because such things occured all the time during the history of diablo.
Personally I believe that like 10-20% of the runes on LOD-ladder are dupes created by the shops, in order to pay the players for other items. (they dont dupe 100 chakos but dupe 1000 runes - and buy 100 chakos, 100 wizardspikes, 100...)

also if bnet cant be hacked, explain me why there are so many 32020 on LOD
or how did the bugged items on LOD exist

fledgeling thank u i alwasy wanted 2 know that :)

[goomba]

bullocks...

Edited sorry, I cannot allow this type of info here.--Dacar


I play d2 cause it's a fun diversion, and for the most part can't be bothered to make mule account, upon mule account, and/or try to keep track of inventory, then try to find people to trade/buy, or list on fleabay.

if I happen to find a really really nice item, I try to dump it quickly, as having a full inventory sucks that next time I urk up 5 rares from deseis, or a series of rare ornates, exes, marts, and rings falls from D, or in a full game...

if I "dump it to a mule" then it's out of site, and thus out of mind, and won't be traded anyway.

as for the original question. I play classic, cause when I first installed the game, it must have been near the end of a ladder season or something, cause virtually nobody was playing ladder. I never saw the need to go back and try it out.

Never played xpac either. :shrug:

[Zodijackyl]

I detect a strong hate of capitalism in this thread. You're all commies, aren't you?

[Kiwi Legend]

I think this isn't far off topic.
Original topic : Why play Ladder or non-ladder.
Ladder play reason : dupes in non-ladder
Then the arguement was brought forth that there was duping in ladder.
Then the question of why people would dupe.
Followed by the answer of minute monetairy gain.
And the amount was mentioned merely I think to show that for a very select few, and we are talking like one in 100000 people, the gain was not minute. And one could also have gotten this trough fair play.

Imho this is just natural development and/or progression of this forum thread.
But I am open to input as to how you would see this thread develop. Kindly enlighten me.


He got ahold ah that one...going going GONE!!!!!

signed
Warlock fan club

[goomba]

Edited sorry, I cannot allow this type of info here.--Dacar


I play d2 cause it's a fun diversion, and for the most part can't be bothered to make mule account, upon mule account, and/or try to keep track of inventory, then try to find people to trade/buy, or list on fleabay.

if I happen to find a really really nice item, I try to dump it quickly, as having a full inventory sucks that next time I urk up 5 rares from deseis, or a series of rare ornates, exes, marts, and rings falls from D, or in a full game...

if I "dump it to a mule" then it's out of site, and thus out of mind, and won't be traded anyway.

as for the original question. I play classic, cause when I first installed the game, it must have been near the end of a ladder season or something, cause virtually nobody was playing ladder. I never saw the need to go back and try it out.

Never played xpac either. :shrug:

sorry dcar, I didn't think I posted actual urls, but rather fake urls that made it clear that tehre are sites out there where people can paypal for items.

is that sort of thing not allowed here either?

[Dacar92]

sorry dcar, I didn't think I posted actual urls, but rather fake urls that made it clear that tehre are sites out there where people can paypal for items.

is that sort of thing not allowed here either?


I'd rather not it be discussd at all. People know. I would rather it remain silent. There's a fine line between hinting and telling and just talking about it. Let's just not talk about it. There are sites and forums around that allow purchase of items. Take those discussions there, please. If you want to talk about legit play, than you can do that here.

Thanks