My pwnage hybrid

[gunske]

hi dudes,

posting my setup to give u a different thought about the main thoughts about hybridstuff.

Circ :
Imp Mask
+2assa
AR/lvl
11dex
20 res
51% gold
lvl 1 attract
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5310/screenshot4150tf.th.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot4150tf.jpg)

Armor :
50%bramble (AP) to pre-buff
eni AP (duell)

Chaos:
+3LS
+1WB
+1BF

2nd Claw:
+2assa
+3LS
+1mb

or

fool's mod
+LS
+mb
(still searching for it)

Rings:
anglic amu+ring
raven

Belt:
arach

Gloves:
trang

Boots :
eth treks

Inven:
9xshadow (FHR,life)
torch
anni

stats:
str:REQ
dex:REQ
vit:ALL
energy:none

skills:
venom:max
LS:max
1pt in pre skill
rest in syn of LS

with fools mod circ or claw u dn't need to max claw mast so u can put 19 extra pts in a syn

with this setup i hit

7.8K LS
7.2K WW with 18K AR (no enchant) and full pre-buff
2.2k hp (no bo)

i didn't find much resistance from any char in open/private games.
if i can't use ww (vs. smiter) i just put some traps and rape there *** :jig:
vs babas lay down some traps and confront them with ur ww, u got a 50/50 chance.

the only downpoint is the FCR for mb, the only way to get some decent FCR is to sacrifice a lot of AR, wich is imo , not worth it.

this is not a guide, just a small glimp of my hybrid to give u some new idea's.

regards,

[moonlike]

wtf how u do so much dmg i do only 3,8k with my ghost(with maxed mastery) and 42 venom lvl but no bramble (ofc trangs yes)

[gunske]

wtf how u do so much dmg i do only 3,8k with my ghost(with maxed mastery) and 42 venom lvl but no bramble (ofc trangs yes)

first of all USE A BRAMBLE
2nd : use 2x +6 venom claws with 10/-xx psn
3th : use +3 shadow helm with 10/-xx psn (never saw a 3sox :sad2: )

this will pump ur venom to the max (sojs, maras, etc added already)

dn't max mastery, the only thing u max mastery for is the AR, thi su get from a fool's modded item so 19 pt's more in a LS syn :brainiac:

[moonlike]

could u tell me what difference in ar is between a max mastery and base if u use fools calw?
and if im not mistaken mastery gives also dmg ^^

[gunske]

could u tell me what difference in ar is between a max mastery and base if u use fools calw?
and if im not mistaken mastery gives also dmg ^^


the difference between maxed CM and 1 pt CM with fools modded circ or claw, the 2nd the best AR, like 2k more, and you get lots more LS dmg:heart:

dn't think CM gives extreem dmg on a chaos, it's a waiste of points ; the main source of dmg is venom, -> not linked on ed%
if u wanna do some pure dmg, create a barb


btw,
a dozen people are already asking months to post my setup, so pl no OT about ;
"this isn't a full guide"

[Arbedark]

As in other thread. Please post screenshot without combat shrines to show this.

Also pre-buffing with the gear you suggested is just boring. Why not pre-buff with CTA, Enchant and Forti cold armour while your at it?

Edit: with your setup fcr is rubbish. I find it hard to believe you have no problems with dueling. Since with less than 65% getting trap lock is hard and any trapper with 102% fcr will eat you for breakfast.

A 2/20/2 Visionay helm would be better than the one you use, even with the stat and res loss.

[gunske]

As in other thread. Please post screenshot without combat shrines to show this.

Also pre-buffing with the gear you suggested is just boring. Why not pre-buff with CTA, Enchant and Forti cold armour while your at it?

Edit: with your setup fcr is rubbish. I find it hard to believe you have no problems with dueling. Since with less than 65% getting trap lock is hard and any trapper with 102% fcr will eat you for breakfast.

A 2/20/2 Visionay helm would be better than the one you use, even with the stat and res loss.


1- WTF, since when do they add dmg to VENOM?

2- OMFG, the question was; how to reach 7.2k ww -> pre-buff venom

3- IDIOT, READ THE 4th last sentence

4- ARG, i rlly think u r ****ing stupid WHERE GET AR FROM ???

no more ****ing stupid posts pl

[LorveN]

1- WTF, since when do they add dmg to VENOM?

2- OMFG, the question was; how to reach 7.2k ww -> pre-buff venom

3- IDIOT, READ THE 4the last sentence

4- ARG, i rlly think u r ****ing stupid WHERE GET AR FROM ???

no more ****ing stupid posts pl

No need to be rude. :embarassed:

[Arbedark]

1- WTF, since when do they add dmg to VENOM?

2- OMFG, the question was; how to reach 7.2k ww -> pre-buff venom

3- IDIOT, READ THE 4the last sentence

4- ARG, i rlly think u r ****ing stupid WHERE GET AR FROM ???

no more ****ing stupid posts pl

1 - Be polite.

2 - The combat shrine comment was in regard to 19k ww, which you are suggesting you can get without a fools claw, if its 19k with a fools claw, it still seems a little high, but meh. Post a screen shot instead of getting childish and namecalling.

3 - As mentioned, pre-buffing is just boring. If you want to pre-buff for 5 minutes before each duel, then do so. I wouldn't wait for you and would just leave the game.

4 - I cant even read a single sentence you have writte. Let alone the "4th to last one", since you don't punctuate accurately and just type whatever random words come into your head.

5 - Show screenshot if you're going to brag?

6 - FCR is still terrible, surprised you can stunlock anyone, let alone a good dueler.

7 - You haven't listed what base claw types, so no clue whether your trap speed is up to par (well it wont be no matter what base claw, since your helm doesnt have a 15% ias jewel in it, so 10 frames traps at tops).

8 - Please reply in a constructive way if you want to argue any of these points.

[gunske]

No need to be rude. :embarassed:


y k,
but i hate mofo's that think they know all about assas and giving critics about things even a child from 6 years can calculate.
search for a ****ing skillplanner and put the same stats as above.
then calculate the venom boosts and at the end u WILL come to my dmg's.
easily can post screens but i think they r to small
(screen from circ is ?****ed-up?)

but no, to ****ing lazy, start flaming


btw if u r on EUSCNL i will gladly rape ur chars

[Arbedark]

y k,
but i hate mofo's that think they know all about assas and giving critics about things even a child from 6 years can calculate.
search for a ****ing skillplanner and put the same stats as above.
then calculate the venom boosts and at the end u WILL come to my dmg's.
easily can post screens but i think they r to small
(screen from circ is ?****ed-up?)

but no, to ****ing lazy, start flaming


btw if u r on EUSCNL i will gladly rape ur chars

Wait til re-set and then fine. We can see who has a better hybrid...

Watch your language, this IS a family friendly forum...

Your screenshots are small because you leave the .th in. Remove that and they are normal size.

I'm also not criticzing on stuff a 6 year old could. I'm criticizing statistical faults with your character.

[gunske]

Wait til re-set and then fine. We can see who has a better hybrid...

Watch your language, this IS a family friendly forum...

Your screenshots are small because you leave the .th in. Remove that and they are normal size.

I'm also not criticzing on stuff a 6 year old could. I'm criticizing statistical faults with your character.


"statistical faults"

can't read ??? get a skillplanner or create a char on single with the same stuff and stats in my 1st post...

can't w8 till reset.......

[Arbedark]

"statistical faults"

can't read ??? get a skillplanner or create a char on single with the same stuff and stats in my 1st post...

can't w8 till reset.......

Read the earlier post. And don't get childish and start being offensive.

Statistical faults:
No 12 frame casting.
No 9 frame trap laying.

I was wrong about AR though, didnt see the Angelics as well as Visionary and Fools.

Don't you find the AR over-kill in most duels though?

And yes, I know how to use skill planners, which is why with Pre-Buffing and absolute perfect gear, 13.3k Traps on a hybrid is possible, with around 5k ww. But it requires absolute perfect gear with stupid pre-buffing, and you won't have very good performance in duels, just high numbers for boasting.

[SicHalo]

firstly resize the pic cuz its to small.

Secondly i still find it hard to understand how u can beat a "decent" caster without hitting that breakpoint at all.

Also what type of claws u using feral, runic others?

Also DR wise it does not look to good cuz judgng from the dmg layout etc im judging u have like prolly 30 dr max

[Arbedark]

firstly resize the pic cuz its to small.

Secondly i still find it hard to understand how u can beat a "decent" caster without hitting that breakpoint at all.

Also what type of claws u using feral, runic others?

My points exactly. I've assumed he's using Runics, since any hybrid worth their salt would use Runics or Ferals. And even using Runics he's only hitting 10 frame Trap laying...

He's also on 13 frame casting, a full 2 frames behind most hybrids, and 3 frames behind most trappers.

[SicHalo]

yeah that speed is slow espeically vs a fast char, i.e 200 fcr sorc charging pala etc

i dont mean to sound negative but having numbers is one thing but if ur build has no kida balance i.e for say extra dmg u sacrifice dr, block, FHR these are general examples. But the point is ur build will be flawed.

[RetroStar]

if you guys been here long enough. this guy's hybrid's stats increases dramatically every post without any gear change. :prop:

[gunske]

k,

think we can live in peace again.

it's totally true i dn't hit FCR bp ( posted in 1st post )
i lay 5 traps around, just 1xmb and tele ontop and ww so nn FCR

first i've played with the trap/trap/mb/mb/mb/tele/ww combo,
but with the b-net lags, 9/10 times the combo ****ed up and i tele twice ^^
but the trap laying goes pretty fast, need to look up what bp i'am in now.

regards, :wave:

[SicHalo]

if you guys been here long enough. this guy's hybrid's stats increases dramatically every post without any gear change. :prop:

yeah i know i seen from previous posts i have not forgot this name.

[gunske]

if you guys been here long enough. this guy's hybrid's stats increases dramatically every post without any gear change.

true,
recently traded +3Ls with wb (so nn preskills for wb = more LS dmg ),
traded better circ
so dmg will rise even more :rolleyes: (i hope:jig: )

[HappyAssassin]

My points exactly. I've assumed he's using Runics, since any hybrid worth their salt would use Runics or Ferals. And even using Runics he's only hitting 10 frame Trap laying...

He's also on 13 frame casting, a full 2 frames behind most hybrids, and 3 frames behind most trappers.

Aw, I've lost my salt...

To be honest, I find it very hard to buy those stats. Your build seems to be very similar to mine, with a bramble instead of enigma and angelic instead of cast gear/raven. 7.8k LS. Wow. So, lets see, its um, level 38 when you're casting it in the field. Now, lets plug that into a skill planner. Assuming that you're lvl 90, you have 102 skill points to spend. With max venom, you have 10 skill points in the last synergy at lvl 90, and you have 7-7042 damage sentry. With around 100 more from each synergy after that, you'll get 7800 at around level 97-98. Congrats on the nice leveling job.

Now for your whirlwind damage. Sorry. I don't believe you at all. I've spent quite a bit of time dueling with the best Bramble Assassins on USWest ladder, and their whirlwind damage is HIGH at 6k shown on screen. With prebuff. Keep in mind that the double application bug only works if you actually WEAR the gear that boosts you poison. Most bramble sins hit between 4-5k. Even with heavy prebuff, which is unrealistic in real dueling, you won't get a whirlwind like that.

Also, you're build has around 28% PDR when dueling. Finally, and this just takes the cake...


if i can't use ww (vs. smiter) i just put some traps and rape there *** :jig:


If you can't use whirlwind???? Are you seriously telling me that you have the skill and wherewithall to put together this almighty character, yet you cant use whirlwind against a smiter...how exactly do you handle smiters who have a Tgods in their stash? You can't mb fast enough to seriously lock them, and your traps will chip away slowly.

[SicHalo]

im also questioning the dr setup cuz against a smite charger u could expect a 2 hit ko with that layout.

Also me and Happy follow the same layout stat wise and gear wise and although my current assa is flawed on my rebuild using editor i though i did the optimum stats w8 brb il post the sats on my rebuild assa.

[SicHalo]

[img=http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5885/wwtrapper9kh.th.png] (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwtrapper9kh.png)

This is with the current setup in planner (ignore the mana cuz im still messing arround with stats but look at the dmg and general setup)

no prebuffs only bo

trang glove
shadow dancers
archnid mesh
enigma
highlords
2x ravens
COA (Ber Jah)
Fury runics 3 venom 3 LS 1 df
chaos runics 3 venom 3 LS

inventry

9 shadow sk + torch and anni

rest maxdmg/ar/life scs

As shown my idea (near perf) setup dmg wise does not compare im still lacking like almost 2k on trap and this is with a stat layout looking like this;

9 shock web
20 LS
20 Charged bolt sentry
20 Death Sentry
1 to trap prequests

1 to all shadow skills
20 venom

no point in martial arts

and all my skill total to 103 points which = lvl 91 with all skill quests done

[moonlike]

[img=http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5885/wwtrapper9kh.th.png] (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwtrapper9kh.png)

This is with the current setup in planner (ignore the mana cuz im still messing arround with stats but look at the dmg and general setup)

no prebuffs only bo

trang glove
shadow dancers
archnid mesh
enigma
highlords
2x ravens
COA (Ber Jah)
Fury runics 3 venom 3 LS 1 df
chaos runics 3 venom 3 LS

inventry

9 shadow sk + torch and anni

rest maxdmg/ar/life scs

As shown my idea (near perf) setup dmg wise does not compare im still lacking like almost 2k on trap and this is with a stat layout looking like this;

9 shock web
20 LS
20 Charged bolt sentry
20 Death Sentry
1 to trap prequests

1 to all shadow skills
20 venom

no point in martial arts

and all my skill total to 103 points which = lvl 91 with all skill quests done
170 dex why so much?
gosu mana how so high?

[SicHalo]

ignore the mana and dex i made the char in an editor and i was testing so i put a ridiculous amount of mana and yeah dex is alot im messing arround mainly with the stats still in single player to get the best stat outcome

[order]

i'll say the trap dmg could very well be possible. the ar could also but i think it would be closer to 15k, possibly less. the 7.2k venom i'm very well sure is completely impossible since a large portion of the buff will be taken away after the switch back to enigma and such. my build is very similar and i only achieve a 3.8k wwdmg. about 4.2k if i use some semi buff claws, helm and ammy. im pretty sure 3.4k dmg cannot be achieved even with that amount of mass prebuff. i will say this about the fcr bps. they are over rated. i only use the fcr from trangs and sometimes arach switch if i dont need the dr from dungos and i do fine in my duels. the 65% or 102% bp are not needed but can be helpful.

[Blocss]

Hi,

I'm currently making a hybrid ww/trapper.
I plan on using
trangglove
enig
shadowdancers
RF
angelic amy/ring or highlords X2 RF
fury/chaos
helm?? i have no f-ing clue. i hear Godly circlets. but those fool mod 2 asn etc must cost a fortune.
coa or I read somwhere that HappyAssasin was trying out Gskull. This seems best for me since i dont have 15hrs at my disposal for godly coa and circ.
Im wondering if the knockback/crushing is important? or is venom that much more important then phys? it seems so to me so far.
A reply from someone with experience would be great for this is my first hybrid sin.
Thanks

[HappyAssassin]

The Gskull is melee only, while wearing bramble, and against smiters and barbs. It is very weak agaisnt casters. If you absolutely cant get a Coa or a circlet, get a Shako and Um it. Should be fine.

[Ce Olba]

[img=http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/5885/wwtrapper9kh.th.png] (http://img194.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wwtrapper9kh.png)

This is with the current setup in planner (ignore the mana cuz im still messing arround with stats but look at the dmg and general setup)

no prebuffs only bo

trang glove
shadow dancers
archnid mesh
enigma
highlords
2x ravens
COA (Ber Jah)
Fury runics 3 venom 3 LS 1 df
chaos runics 3 venom 3 LS

inventry

9 shadow sk + torch and anni

rest maxdmg/ar/life scs

As shown my idea (near perf) setup dmg wise does not compare im still lacking like almost 2k on trap and this is with a stat layout looking like this;

9 shock web
20 LS
20 Charged bolt sentry
20 Death Sentry
1 to trap prequests

1 to all shadow skills
20 venom

no point in martial arts

and all my skill total to 103 points which = lvl 91 with all skill quests done

Just make it a lvl99 character and make exactly the gear gunske mentioned. Also, prebuff too. Btw, 103-12=91, but that means 91 levels, and 91+1=92.

[SicHalo]

Just make it a lvl99 character and make exactly the gear gunske mentioned. Also, prebuff too. Btw, 103-12=91, but that means 91 levels, and 91+1=92.

k il give that a try il make it a lvl 99 char

the dmg out put he was showing was higher than a bramble sin which is would require extreme prebuff to get to this kinda WW dmg.

BTW the 65% fcr does make a difference vs a good caster type char as it make life alot easier to lock them down and put them in fhr mode.

[SicHalo]

[img=http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6130/lvl99setup6nf.th.png] (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lvl99setup6nf.png)

k here is lvl 99 with all the current listed setup i used;

no prebuffs just bo

trang glove
shadow dancers
archnid mesh
enigma
highlords
2x ravens
COA (Ber Jah)
Fury runics 3 venom 3 LS 1 df
chaos runics 3 venom 3 LS

inventry

9 shadow sk + torch and anni

rest maxdmg/ar/life scs

Here is setup with prebuff;

i used a 3+ shadow skill amu
2x 1 skill rings
helm 3+ shadow with facet
Bramble 45% poision skill

[img=http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/7869/lvl99setupwithprebuff7yc.th.png] (http://img270.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lvl99setupwithprebuff7yc.png)

il soon try with another setup layout

[Arbedark]

i'll say the trap dmg could very well be possible. the ar could also but i think it would be closer to 15k, possibly less. the 7.2k venom i'm very well sure is completely impossible since a large portion of the buff will be taken away after the switch back to enigma and such. my build is very similar and i only achieve a 3.8k wwdmg. about 4.2k if i use some semi buff claws, helm and ammy. im pretty sure 3.4k dmg cannot be achieved even with that amount of mass prebuff. i will say this about the fcr bps. they are over rated. i only use the fcr from trangs and sometimes arach switch if i dont need the dr from dungos and i do fine in my duels. the 65% or 102% bp are not needed but can be helpful.

You play in public duel games mainly then?

Against people who know what they are doing the 65% bp IS needed to be remotely successful vs good casters, and 102% for a trapper is recommended.

If you're not even hitting 13 frame casting (which you wont using ONLY trangs), then you REALLY must be facing people with either amazingly bad fhr, or who just dont know how to duel properly.

Since most casters will be at least 3 frames ahead, with sorcs being 6 frames ahead of you. VERY noticable difference.

[Speederländer]

The Gskull is melee only, while wearing bramble, and against smiters and barbs.
Actually it's really only useful against smiters. It almost never knocks back barbs unless they happen to initiate a late ww or tele on top of you.

It is very weak agaisnt casters.
It will knock them right out of tight triangular whirl so I would rarely (never) recommend it against casters except perhaps against hammerdins who have a tendency to tele on top of you and try to hammer.

[moonlike]

http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/9411/assaclaw6cd.jpg

t.t i want such claws:sad2:

[Ce Olba]

[img=http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6130/lvl99setup6nf.th.png] (http://img507.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lvl99setup6nf.png)

k here is lvl 99 with all the current listed setup i used;

no prebuffs just bo

trang glove
shadow dancers
archnid mesh
enigma
highlords
2x ravens
COA (Ber Jah)
Fury runics 3 venom 3 LS 1 df
chaos runics 3 venom 3 LS

inventry

9 shadow sk + torch and anni

rest maxdmg/ar/life scs

Here is setup with prebuff;

i used a 3+ shadow skill amu
2x 1 skill rings
helm 3+ shadow with facet
Bramble 45% poision skill

[img=http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/7869/lvl99setupwithprebuff7yc.th.png] (http://img270.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lvl99setupwithprebuff7yc.png)

il soon try with another setup layout

Add +6 venom claws with 2 facets in, since IIRC he said he uses such. And also, use the setup _he_ uses, not some random. I wanna see him getting "slain" :smiley:

[vincevaler]

hi sorry can someone explain to me what a fools mod claw is? Thanks

[order]

You play in public duel games mainly then?

Against people who know what they are doing the 65% bp IS needed to be remotely successful vs good casters, and 102% for a trapper is recommended.

If you're not even hitting 13 frame casting (which you wont using ONLY trangs), then you REALLY must be facing people with either amazingly bad fhr, or who just dont know how to duel properly.

Since most casters will be at least 3 frames ahead, with sorcs being 6 frames ahead of you. VERY noticable difference.

most of the duels in pubs uswestnl are pretty gg. i can go 5v1 easy and kill most ppl who have some clue what they are doing in pubs with no buffs. i duel both private and pub. if casters run away is it really my obligation to chase after them? id rather have more life and dr than give into using the 65% bp. i never said it wasnt useful. just dont bash on me or my build for not using it. i have amazing results without it.

[Arbedark]

most of the duels in pubs uswestnl are pretty gg. i can go 5v1 easy and kill most ppl who have some clue what they are doing in pubs with no buffs. i duel both private and pub. if casters run away is it really my obligation to chase after them? id rather have more life and dr than give into using the 65% bp. i never said it wasnt useful. just dont bash on me or my build for not using it. i have amazing results without it.

No, the 65% fcr bp isnt just for chasing casters, its for actually locking decent ones up...

If you are getting good stunlock and telewhirl vs casters with yoursetup, then as I said, they won't be very skilled.

I'm not bashing you or your build, just stating some facts.

If a caster knows what they are doing then they shouldn't have any problems with a hybrid 2 frames below the 65% bp...

[Hurtmeister]

Hey!
Uhm you say you hit 7.2k ww dmg with Enigma? Thats IMPOSSIBLE! I also use the 6 venom claws etc for prebuff then switch to Enigma and my dmg is 5.8k with Enigma, and 7.3k with Bramble.. so plz tell me how to reach 7.2k ww with Enigma on, unless your just making this all up?

[SicHalo]

kk i tried out gunsky setup k the light dmg is do able but the char had to be lvl 99

here is with prebuff on;

2xClaws with 6 + shadow 10% poision skill
Bramble
2x skill ring
helm 3+ shadow 10% poision skill
3+ shadow amu
arch
And bo from cta

the enchant was included as well

[img=http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/8405/othersetup25te.th.png] (http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=othersetup25te.png)

[Ce Olba]

kk i tried out gunsky setup k the light dmg is do able but the char had to be lvl 99

here is with prebuff on;

2xClaws with 6 + shadow 10% poision skill
Bramble
2x skill ring
helm 3+ shadow 10% poision skill
3+ shadow amu
arch
And bo from cta

the enchant was included as well

[img=http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/8405/othersetup25te.th.png] (http://img485.imageshack.us/my.php?image=othersetup25te.png)

Now just take a picture where the ww damage shows, now it's showing the normal attack damage.

[SicHalo]

kk here is with the WW dmg and trap;

same prebuff techniqes as in previous post;

[img=http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6927/withprebuff25ke.th.png] (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=withprebuff25ke.png)

[Speederländer]

Folks, other than it being an interesting exercise, who cares if you can get gunske's numbers? He pre-buffs the crap out of his assassin. His numbers don't mean any more than if I were to bring an enchant sorc in the game to enchant my assassin. Once you are talking pre-buffs just about anything is possible. It's pointless. Put gunske in a real duel where he can't continuously pre-buff and all his impressive numbers fall apart.

[SicHalo]

Folks, other than it being an interesting exercise, who cares if you can get gunske's numbers? He pre-buffs the crap out of his assassin. His numbers don't mean any more than if I were to bring an enchant sorc in the game to enchant my assassin. Once you are talking pre-buffs just about anything is possible. It's pointless. Put gunske in a real duel where he can't continuously pre-buff and all his impressive numbers fall apart.

even so looking at his build setup, he lacks dr, FCR and the speed to cast a 9 frame trap.

This sorta stat lose for any kida dmg is still not worth it cuz firstly prebuffing with all that gear takes a while and having to do this every duel or every so often is a pain, secondly this setup wil have problems dealing with tough mele such as barbs, smiter etc cuz it does not reach max dr so a good smiter and definetly a barb will run this over.

The focr judging from waht i can see is like 2 frames slower than the 65% fcr mark and vs good caster it simply not good enough as u will not be able to lock them up with mb spam unless they have low fhr and a competent dueler will make sure their build hit all the need marks, also thing like tele speed will lack a little.

Also the trap laying speed has to be good as this will alow u to deal with faster character easier