Making a pvp mage,

[fredsta54]

For those of you who dont know what this is, its an foh/hammer pala hybrid, inspired to make one after seeing an effective one own in duels.

Im not so sure about the skill pnts, gonna use a skill calculater to figure out the best dmg ratio, but its probably gonna look like this

20 foh
10+ convict
10+ holy shock

20 bhammer
10+ conc
10+vigor

1 holy shield, rest of pnts to conc/synergy or convict/synergy, whichever is lacking in damage. Its more a flexible build lacking in damage, but it can attack with foh from afar while keeping a defensive hammer field up... can really piss off opponents and win GM duels

As for gear, i know ill need a lot of + skills. but im not rich so lets be realistic

Tarn
+1 fcr pris ammy
+1 fhr pris stacked cr/lr shield
+2 fcr bh scepter
magefist
Fhr life res armour/twitch
+str cr lr rings
Fhr res boots/belt

Im hoping for 2k foh w/ -100 enemies lr + 4k+ hammers w/ 50 fcr



Thoughts?






Fred

[dougolasjr]

GO for it...

Personally I think you should make a wind druid.

[fredsta54]

GO for it...

Personally I think you should make a wind druid.

wind druids are boring, not that i can even play xpac... :P

BTW, assuming level 85 and +5 skills, does any1 know the most effective skill placement in order to have a balanced foh/hammer? The chippydip calculater doesnt take conc into consideration =/

EDIT: think i just figured out the best combination, for foh at least

base skills

10 convict --- +5 skills= lvl 15= -100% enemys lr
20 foh
10 holy shock -more foh dmg..

Now, for hammers, after maxing it, assuming you cant fully max conc and a synergy, what would you go for? i need your guys opinions ><







Fred

[Avenger]

Apparently, the best thing to do is pretty much to mix between the two. Two meaning a synergy and concentration. Conc adds 15% per lvl(really only 7.5% but thats just being picky) and each synergy adds 14% per lvl. Seeing as how the synergies add to base BH damage, this in turn makes conc work "better", by having more damage to work with.

I used this link (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=535) as a reference. Toodles.

[fredsta54]

Apparently, the best thing to do is pretty much to mix between the two. Two meaning a synergy and concentration. Conc adds 15% per lvl(really only 7.5% but thats just being picky) and each synergy adds 14% per lvl. Seeing as how the synergies add to base BH damage, this in turn makes conc work "better", by having more damage to work with.

I used this link (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=535) as a reference. Toodles.

Thanks! I read that guide a while but i forgot about the useful bh info :P

It does look like a mix between the 2 is best

20 bh
1:1 BA/Conc ratio

EDIT: that info is for xpac, with the diffirence in conc between lod and classic (iirc) is that still legit? =/



Fred

[Avenger]

Thanks! I read that guide a while but i forgot about the useful bh info :P

It does look like a mix between the 2 is best

20 bh
1:1 BA/Conc ratio

EDIT: that info is for xpac, with the diffirence in conc between lod and classic (iirc) is that still legit? =/

Fred

The only difference between LOD and Classic with respect to Concentration and Blessed Hammer is what the Character Screen tells you. They function the exact same, adding half the listed +dmg% from Concentration, but in Classic, the Character screen lists full damage, and in LOD it lists the proper, half, damage.

Side Note: While this whole site is crapily biased towards LOD, and probably rightfully so, most of the info can be accurately related back to Classic. Afterall, LOD is JUST an expansion pack.

[fredsta54]

The only difference between LOD and Classic with respect to Concentration and Blessed Hammer is what the Character Screen tells you. They function the exact same, adding half the listed +dmg% from Concentration, but in Classic, the Character screen lists full damage, and in LOD it lists the proper, half, damage.

Side Note: While this whole site is crapily biased towards LOD, and probably rightfully so, most of the info can be accurately related back to Classic. Afterall, LOD is JUST an expansion pack.


Thanks for clearing that up. And, yes, ive been known to relate lod info to classic, hence the thread topic :P

Now, as for foh, lvl 10 convict base (+5 skills = -100% enemy's lr) But is 20 foh/rest holy shock the best bet, or an even wierder skill allocation? ;)



Fred

[Avenger]

I would have to say that maxing FoH. then dumping into HS is your best bet towards max damage. With a lvl20 FoH and lvl 10 HS (which Im pretty sure is what you're aiming for) you get a 1147-1232 FoH, but that is w/o any +skills.

BTW, save yourself the point and dont put into holy shield, it just causes charge lock and is not worth it IMO.


After messing around with a skill calc, heres what I came up with:

FoH - maxed
BH - maxed
Conviction - 10
Concentration - 13
Blessed Aim - 13
Holy Shock - 10
Prereqs - 12

Giving us a grand total of 98 skill points used, and a lvl87 character. Maybe a little high, but not too bad.

This gives FoH damage of 1581-1666, and non-conc BH damage of 730-741. This is just with a generic +5 to all skills, not bh/conc exclusive, so these numbers are probably a little high.

From the looks of things, your BH damage is going to be laughable, so maybe you will need to divert some more skill points to it.

[fredsta54]

I would have to say that maxing FoH. then dumping into HS is your best bet towards max damage. With a lvl20 FoH and lvl 10 HS (which Im pretty sure is what you're aiming for) you get a 1147-1232 FoH, but that is w/o any +skills.

BTW, save yourself the point and dont put into holy shield, it just causes charge lock and is not worth it IMO.


After messing around with a skill calc, heres what I came up with:

FoH - maxed
BH - maxed
Conviction - 10
Concentration - 13
Blessed Aim - 13
Holy Shock - 10
Prereqs - 12

Giving us a grand total of 98 skill points used, and a lvl87 character. Maybe a little high, but not too bad.

This gives FoH damage of 1581-1666, and non-conc BH damage of 730-741. This is just with a generic +5 to all skills, not bh/conc exclusive, so these numbers are probably a little high.

From the looks of things, your BH damage is going to be laughable, so maybe you will need to divert some more skill points to it.


Yes ill have +5skills on at all times, more if there is +bh/conc on my scepter, and even more if i put on a +2 shield/2 ammy

As for my bh damage, ill be using it to setup defensive fields, not so much for raw power, in combination with foh it should get the job done

I may put 6 into holy shock then 2 to conc and 2 to bh, just for more hammer dmg





Fred

[Zodijackyl]

This looks like a bad hybrid build. I'll beat it PvP with my FOHer or my hammerdin, your choice.

[Noite Escura]

I was messing with the same idea these days and ended up with a similar allocation to that Avenger put up. I can't say anything else, but to get Vigor from Scepter and get your syns from Blessed Aim. Any way I look on to it it seems poor damage in both attacks. I'll rather try a T/V if I had the equip...
[Edit]I don't see you already realized about Vigor doh

[fredsta54]

I was messing with the same idea these days and ended up with a similar allocation to that Avenger put up. I can't say anything else, but to get Vigor from Scepter and get your syns from Blessed Aim. Any way I look on to it it seems poor damage in both attacks. I'll rather try a T/V if I had the equip...
[Edit]I don't see you already realized about Vigor doh


I dont think ill need vigor at all, stay stationary keeping conc hammer field up, with my setup ill have +5 skills and +8 total to bh so it should be some dmg, and foh/convict quick switch to attack from afar

I know it wont be an uber dueler, but im hoping it will do alright, and win some gm 1v1 duels






Fred

[Avenger]

I would have to greatly disagree with using vigor at all in this build. Its bad enough that you're gonna hafta switch between conc and conv just to do any sort of semi-meaningful damage. Adding vigor to c-lag would just complicate things too much, plus, if you want to c-lag, just use a hammerdin.

My FoH never seems to have problems c-lagging w/o vigor anyway.

[Dagnome]

Honestly, I dont think this will be a sucsesfull build at all, to much switching and confusion. A solid FOH or hammerdin would own you easily, especialy a din who can c-lag well.

[fredsta54]

Honestly, I dont think this will be a sucsesfull build at all, to much switching and confusion. A solid FOH or hammerdin would own you easily, especialy a din who can c-lag well.

A pure foh is laughable with 75% lr and 150 stacked, a pure hammerdin, sure it might own me, but honestly a lot of dins stand still and hammer, i foh them, they come 2 close and my hammers will still kill them, it will just be a threat instead of a 1-2hit ko




Fred

[DiabloAvenger]

With what u said about Fohs, they can easily own you. All they have to do is stack some lr to and he will just out damage you but your strategy against hammerdins might work. It sounds plausible.

[WarlockCC]

A pure foh is laughable with 75% lr and 150 stacked, a pure hammerdin, sure it might own me, but honestly a lot of dins stand still and hammer, i foh them, they come 2 close and my hammers will still kill them, it will just be a threat instead of a 1-2hit ko




Fred
It will be a actual duel in stead of the usual "I got first hit, I win ! ... You got first hit, you win !" 'duels' which are all too common now-a-days.

I think that build is viable, Fred. after all, a FoHdin which is getting hammered doesn't get around to FoHing much. And a 3 sock topaz shield is easily made.

[dlee]

personally if you can make it well with best skill ratios it might work really well if you make it AND duel it well. FOH has a 1 second cast delay so you can hammer between foh's. i think it will be hard to set up barriors with a sceptar though. you want to hit a high fcr BP inorder to be protected by the hammers.

my recomendations for dueling:

sceptar for sorc, keep hammering and fohing (sclag the whole time so the sorc wont see you) and if he comes close sclag right up to it hammer to pk.

for a barb i think you should use a shard to set up a better shield of hammers because you can doge slow hammers fairly easily with a speeder. keep a nice amount of hammers up, hide in them and foh. he will probably run away because he cant get near you in which case you can chase him or just make fun of him for running OR he'll leap into you in which case you should probably just put up like 50 clag hams right next to him and invis hammer pk him

just charge zons

necro might be hard to handle if they gaurd themselves completely with bwalls and with your low hammer dammage and they're high life walls you might need 2 hams to kill it. best chance against a necro is to go right into it really quickly with a quick sclag before walls go up (necros will have huge stacked lr most likely with rlash sspur armor shield and scirc/vc) so might be dead before an foh /w low dmg will kill it


just my thoughts. tell me if it works i might be interested in making one myself

[Noite Escura]

I dont think ill need vigor at all, stay stationary keeping conc hammer field up, with my setup ill have +5 skills and +8 total to bh so it should be some dmg, and foh/convict quick switch to attack from afar


Without desynching I don't see you standing a chance against Necros( I always consider them when thinking about PvP chars). Bone Prison is just too
***.

[fredsta54]

Without desynching I don't see you standing a chance against Necros( I always consider them when thinking about PvP chars). Bone Prison is just too
***.

U can desynch w/o vigor

So my mage is lvl 35ish atm, and hes doing really well so far! Dueled quite a bit in nm, and killed a few level 50's, suprisingly :P

Rite now hammer dmg is about 1k, 50 fcr, and foh is about 400 dmg w/ -60% enemy's lr

The general tactic seems to stay still and spam hammers, while quickly switching to convict/foh (easily done on my hotkeys) then keeping the hammer field up, ive been accesed of being a hacker at least 2 times :P, ofc charging around to survive...

gear atm

+1 fcr pris pal ammy
Tarn
Twitch/17 fhr 2x cr lr light plate (found off d for q :S)
30/10 cr lr boots
2X fcr rings (about 2x cr lr together, nub rings ><)
24 fhr 2x cr lr belt
+1 pris stacked fr spiked shield
Magefist
+2 pal 3 bh scepter

So far, hes actually been dominating characters around his level, although i can see once he reaches high level duels it will be more about playing this guy flawlessly, than outtanking





Fred

[Locke07]

This is a very usable build and it should work. It works on the same princiaple that a V/t or T/v would use. So I don't see why people are dismissing it. The one casualty of a FOH pally is that you can stack resistances and it becomes a mute character. So dueling any character going into the battle will stack resistances to negate the foh, but in doing so that lowers many things such as life def ect ect enabling the other threat, this case the hammers to be a better dmg dealer or it could work vice versa. Seeing hammers may make people want to take of resi gear in order to obtain maximum ammount of life or dmg loosing resistances increasing the effectivness of FoH. Good idea fred tell me how it goes.

Your Friend,
Locke

[Zodijackyl]

Sure an FOHer isn't very effective 1v1 if someone stacks LR, having 270+LR total, but hardly anyone will do this. The elite players who do have this much resistance won't be switching gear, they'll probably just have massive resistances off of godly items. The majority of newbs will throw on a 3soc topaz shield when they see an FOH or conviction, but they'll still be low on LR, and you should be able to beat them with a bit of skill.
Basically, this build will confuse a few newbs, but still not be strong enough to kill nearly all good duelers.
And any hammerdin who just sits and hammers isn't a very good one.

[fredsta54]

Sure an FOHer isn't very effective 1v1 if someone stacks LR, having 270+LR total, but hardly anyone will do this. The elite players who do have this much resistance won't be switching gear, they'll probably just have massive resistances off of godly items. The majority of newbs will throw on a 3soc topaz shield when they see an FOH or conviction, but they'll still be low on LR, and you should be able to beat them with a bit of skill.
Basically, this build will confuse a few newbs, but still not be strong enough to kill nearly all good duelers.
And any hammerdin who just sits and hammers isn't a very good one.


The thing about this build, is that it kills faster than you think. Its not just a low dmg foh + hammers, foh + convict, switch to hammer + conc until foh cool down time, switch back etc., over time it deals a fair bit of damage, and can very easily be played super offensively or super defensively

I can see it getting beaten by the uber builds a lot, then when i step up the game it should be more even, well this build is more for fun than effectiveness anyway, but im not worried about his performance :P



Fred

[Akukami]

The thing about this build, is that it kills faster than you think. Its not just a low dmg foh + hammers, foh + convict, switch to hammer + conc until foh cool down time, switch back etc., over time it deals a fair bit of damage, and can very easily be played super offensively or super defensively

I can see it getting beaten by the uber builds a lot, then when i step up the game it should be more even, well this build is more for fun than effectiveness anyway, but im not worried about his performance :P

Fred

I'll be more than happy to test the effectiveness of this character. You know where to find me. :thumbsup:

- Akukami

[killjoyxlx]

pvp mage thread....yeah...ok

[Akukami]

pvp mage thread....yeah...ok

:spammer:

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- Akukami