View Full Version : So .. The Cleric ..
I've watched Warlock play his Healer Paladin. The Cleric.
It was nice to have him along, unlimited mana and healing.
Always thought that gameplay was not for me, boy was I wrong.
I've leveled him to 61 now. Well, healing (and leeching) in CS runs.
Its a pretty effective build, and people like you around :)
All but Seis, he really doesn't like me :P
I got Holy Bolt and Blessed Hammer filled up, now working on FoH and Prayer.
But already I can heal pretty well, and do 6.5k Holy Bolt damage.
I followed Warlocks advice and went for the max +skills. It really helps. But preferably you'd need a prism +2 ammy and a prism +2 shield. Because with -50 res all, you're quite the sitting duck for the venomlords flames.
Another hint would be to stay back and heal people ... but in alot of CS they run to all the seals and leave alot alive in between. So I think I might go look for a good setup between alot of +skills and at least 0 res all. Which should be possble.
I'll let you know the outcome.
squiggle
06-05-2006, 15:56
What aura do you use , I might make one myself be a bit dodgy lvling to start with tho.
Well, that kinda depends on the situation ;)
But mostly I use Meditation now. Mana regen and because of the synergy with Prayer, it also heals an xx amount per 2 seconds.
Besides that I can also use Salvation, for the resists.
I think later I will add one skillpoint to all the rest of the skills, or perhaps only 1 in might. With all the plus skils it might add some more dmg to the hammerdins in the CS party :)
It just comes down to adapting to the party your playing with.
And leveling, well, yes .. that was a sucky part. I kinda self rushed myself to Hell. But, once you've got Holy Bolt and Blessed hammer, you can easily kill most undead without a problem. The rest of the monsters are kind of a problem.
So no playing alone. Well, not in Hell anyway.
Hey, I was thinking of making one of these. Whats the build for something like this? I will go look in the guides but if I cant find one a link to a guide or a guide posted would be helpful.
Thats pretty easy.
20 Holy Bolt
20 FoH
20 Blessed Hammer
20 Prayer.
Str for items, preferably Silks. You will want alot of +skills for max performance.
Get a +2 amulet, a +2 sceptre (preferably a +2 Skills / +3 Holy Bolt / +3 Meditation) and a +2 Shield. All with res would be preferable, but I've been running CS with -50 res all with little trouble. I still need to test WITH res.
I was thinking full Irathas. Altho you'll be missing out on the +1 from the Tarn and +2 from the amulet. I just collected res items and Irathas to test. See what works best.
Itemwise:
Tarn
Silks
+2 shield (preferably prism ;))
+2 sceptre (some res would be nice)
+2 amulet (preferably prism ;))
Res/Fhr/Life belt
Res/fhr/30frw boots
Res gloves or Magefist for FCR.
I'm working on, I guess you'd call it a cleric variant. His purpose is to support an all zon team from another forum, but 90% of the time he is soloing, untwinked. By late norm I realized a pure cleric wasn't going to make it. I broke down and put three points into zeal and a point into might. I could now kill things and I took a beating doing it. I find it is easier to run cleanzing with my lvl5 prayer now. My killing speed is terrible, but I can tank just about anything. Actually, I run away alot.:rolleyes:
For leveling lately, (NM) I've been doing a lot of maus/crypt runs inbetween quests. You will feel like superman down there.
I'm working on, I guess you'd call it a cleric variant. His purpose is to support an all zon team from another forum, but 90% of the time he is soloing, untwinked. By late norm I realized a pure cleric wasn't going to make it. I broke down and put three points into zeal and a point into might. I could now kill things and I took a beating doing it. I find it is easier to run cleanzing with my lvl5 prayer now. My killing speed is terrible, but I can tank just about anything. Actually, I run away alot.:rolleyes:
For leveling lately, (NM) I've been doing a lot of maus/crypt runs inbetween quests. You will feel like superman down there.
Yes, like I said, leveling is *****. But when there's undead to be killed.
You're indeed the man for the job.
I see in Hell CS runs, I can pretty much survive on my own, shooting down those nasty undead, and running away from the venomlords ;)
Actually, I should try and really only support, but I also like to do something :P So I go undead hunting.
I'm using a +2 pala / +3 holy freeze. My tactic should be, toss on HF and wait til the baddies are slowed. Then quickly switch to meditation for the mana regen and healing and start healing/killing the Mages.
It's too bad my FoH and BH are too low dmg, else you'd be doing Hell CS solo.
But thats when you start being a Hammerdin and not a true Healer.
WarlockCC
07-05-2006, 16:18
Yes, like I said, leveling is *****. But when there's undead to be killed.
You're indeed the man for the job.
I see in Hell CS runs, I can pretty much survive on my own, shooting down those nasty undead, and running away from the venomlords ;)
Actually, I should try and really only support, but I also like to do something :P So I go undead hunting.
I'm using a +2 pala / +3 holy freeze. My tactic should be, toss on HF and wait til the baddies are slowed. Then quickly switch to meditation for the mana regen and healing and start healing/killing the Mages.
It's too bad my FoH and BH are too low dmg, else you'd be doing Hell CS solo.
But thats when you start being a Hammerdin and not a true Healer.
Venom Lords are our friends. At least if you convert them. At lower levels I would flip on Salvation and start trying to convert them. At the higher levels I can now (because of more life) just use fana and conversion for quicker conversion.
This will allow you to smite them or kill them with a blessed hammer after they are done being your friend. And hammers do work a bit, so you might even be able to kill bosses with. Usually I just leave the Infector to other people though, since I can keep the other person alive even if they are standing in the middle of the Infector's Inferno.
When you convert the Venom Lords, you probably shouldn't put your healing aura on while they are your friend, as this seems to have the odd side-effect of them being at full health when they convert back to being monsters. In stead of the 1 health they are supposed to have, which would allow you to kill them.
Just keep your conversion handy, if anything approaches you that you cannot kill, just convert it and convert it again when it's done, some other people will come along to kill it.
Yeah, you can't CS alone, but isn't that a interesting part about the build ? Why in Diablo's Earth would you want to CS alone anyway ? Orb/Blizz/cold sorcs can't CS alone either.
Another good thing about Holy bolt, it just travels trough monsters and demons so even if another in your party is surrounded by Venom Lords, you can still heal that person.
One problem can be Necro's and their minions. Be it revives or skellies, my holy bolt cannot pass trough them to heal whomever is on the other side.
Oh, and let's not forget those who are oblivious to the rest of the world and don't realise you cannot heal the one in danger when they are standing between you and the one in danger. They just stand there wondering why that other character is dying and then quickly flee when the pack comes for them, leaving your chessnuts roasting on the open fire.
In closing, I re-itterate :
Venom Lords are our friends... :)
I might then use the +2 pala / +3 conversion sceptre.
Since I noticed Holy Freeze doesn't really last a long time when flipping it on and off.
I'll give it a go :)
Ow, I also changed a little in the Gear Setup.
Tarn +1
Silks +1
Amulet +2 / replenish 9 / 17cres
Sceptre +2 / 3 HF or Conversion
Shield 10/15 +2
Gloves with lres/fres
Boots with lres/fres 30frw and 10fhr
Belt with 24fhr / fres (need an upgrade, as long as it has 24fhr)
2sojs +2
This gives me +10 skills and some thing like 3x res in both Fire and Lightning.
The most important res you need in CS. And I make the FHR breakpoint, always handy when ur in a pack of baddies :)
As I see now, I need to upgrade the sceptre to a rare +2 / 3 Holy Bolt and resists, a +2 prism ammy and a +2 prism shield to give that final resist boost.
What about using a shard instead of a scepter? I have 2 sojs on my guy, +2 ammy, +2 sheild, tarn. a shard would allow much faster healing.
What about using a shard instead of a scepter? I have 2 sojs on my guy, +2 ammy, +2 sheild, tarn. a shard would allow much faster healing.
Well ... lets say an all vita baba has about 4k life after BO.
In the end, with all synergies etc, I heal about 5xx life.
Thats four casts.
FCR breakpoints for the pala are as follows:
0% 15 fpc
9% 14 fpc
18% 13 fpc
30% 12 fpc
48% 11 fpc
75% 10 fpc
125% 9 fpc
I'd say 20fcr is enough. Try and get 10 on the sceptre and 10 on the ammy.
Or use magefist, I want to use those when I get a prism ammy and a prism +2 shield ;)
Thing is, you really want all the +skills you can get. With 2 less, you'd be missing out on quite some damage, and healing. (tested this with Warlocks Healer)
Besides, its alot of dex to add besides the 100str for the silks.
WarlockCC
08-05-2006, 15:20
Well ... lets say an all vita baba has about 4k life after BO.
In the end, with all synergies etc, I heal about 5xx life.
Thats four casts.
FCR breakpoints for the pala are as follows:
0% 15 fpc
9% 14 fpc
18% 13 fpc
30% 12 fpc
48% 11 fpc
75% 10 fpc
125% 9 fpc
I'd say 20fcr is enough. Try and get 10 on the sceptre and 10 on the ammy.
Or use magefist, I want to use those when I get a prism ammy and a prism +2 shield ;)
Thing is, you really want all the +skills you can get. With 2 less, you'd be missing out on quite some damage, and healing. (tested this with Warlocks Healer)
Besides, its alot of dex to add besides the 100str for the silks.
Yes, Magefists already gets you some good speed, add a +2Pala FCR amy to that and you exactly have the next one. Maybe if you found that uber healer's prelod scepter with +2 pala, +3 holy bolt, +3 meditation, +3 prayer and 20FC you could get that next breakpoint. But I think I would be happy with such a scepter if it didn't have the FC. :)
note that the +3 prayer will work as a synergy. It is the exception to the rule I guess.
Any +skills you have in your prayer will still boost your Holy bolt's, meditation's and cleansing's healing.
Unlike for instance +skills in Ice Shard won't boost your Orb. Only actual points invested in Ice Shard will help Orb. Though I guess most of you already know this.
XAndrewX
08-05-2006, 15:58
I really think a healer pally is a sick build. Keep up the imagination.
Ya I made my pally got him to lvl 71 in one day, I invested some points into salvation for those who have less res's, I invested only a few in meditation and maxed prayer. I found a +2 holy bolt +2 prayer scepter. I was thinking of using a shard, even got the dex for it, but I think Im going to get magefist for the fcr. People really enjoy having me around, if your on east, im pretty hard to miss, look for PBJ_Sandwich. So many people think im an foher, its funny. So far no one has down talked me, I think this is the first char build I actualy enjoy playing.
Ya I made my pally got him to lvl 71 in one day, I invested some points into salvation for those who have less res's, I invested only a few in meditation and maxed prayer. I found a +2 holy bolt +2 prayer scepter. I was thinking of using a shard, even got the dex for it, but I think Im going to get magefist for the fcr. People really enjoy having me around, if your on east, im pretty hard to miss, look for PBJ_Sandwich. So many people think im an foher, its funny. So far no one has down talked me, I think this is the first char build I actualy enjoy playing.
Yeah, sounds familiar. People like to have you around.
Mana aplenty, and healing for everyone :)
Just be carefull for the ignorant player who thinks EVERY pala they see is a Hammerdin. Had that alot :P
Ya people expect me to kill but all I do is heal. Think I have a level 4-6 meditation, think thats enough? I mean people say they have infinite mana with that low a lvl meditation, it wont heal any more cause prayer is maxed out, heals about 41hp every 2 seconds. What other skills should I get? I maxed prayer, hammer, h bolt, and foh. I put a few in salv, got that to like 93%. What else should I get?
Ya people expect me to kill but all I do is heal. Think I have a level 4-6 meditation, think thats enough? I mean people say they have infinite mana with that low a lvl meditation, it wont heal any more cause prayer is maxed out, heals about 41hp every 2 seconds. What other skills should I get? I maxed prayer, hammer, h bolt, and foh. I put a few in salv, got that to like 93%. What else should I get?
I'm also kinda stumped. After maxing Holy Bolt, Prayer, Blessed Hamer and Foh, I dont see what else I could use.
I'm using a +2 pala / +3 Conversion, handy to have friends as I found out yesterday. I'd say put some in there. To keep the baddies of your back when you're healing.
I'm also kinda stumped. After maxing Holy Bolt, Prayer, Blessed Hamer and Foh, I dont see what else I could use.
I'm using a +2 pala / +3 Conversion, handy to have friends as I found out yesterday. I'd say put some in there. To keep the baddies of your back when you're healing.
Ya many people told me to get conversion, whats the stats for that? What is the percentage by level?
WarlockCC
08-05-2006, 18:03
Ya many people told me to get conversion, whats the stats for that? What is the percentage by level?
Bessides the mains, I just put 1 skillpoint in all skills except the three elementspecific resists.
So I would advise no more then 1 point in a skill you would like to have. The +skills really make up for it. Conversion is almost a must, Salvation aswell unless you have ubergodly/gosu/Steve's items. I do enjoy my redemption aswell. More Meditation is nice. I have mine at level 17 with all the +skills(+12).
Salvation should only have a few points (preferably just 1) because you have the rather large amount of +skills.
That is a very nice scepter you have there by the way. Can you try the difference between a +2 weapon (anything that has no prayer) and your scepter ? I am curious how much difference in healing there is for meditation.
Having each skill at level 12 at least is handy. Although my Holy Bolt damage is not maxed now. I only started filling that later when I realised how much damage it does to undead. By then I had already chosen every skill.
It does make my pala very versitile though, able to give support aura's of any kind. :)
And that way you also get an even more varried playstyle.
Very true, I will do that. I might put about 2-3 points into conversion to get it to 25%, I think putting 1 point into every aura is a good idea, maybe not every skill, I am at lvl 71 so itll take a while to get a point into all those skills, as helpful as I am, finding a good CS is a pain in the butt. So many noobs csing now, ugh. I wonder, what other kinds of oppurtunities this cleric build opens? We could make a whole slew of pally's for specific support, dueling, etc.
WarlockCC
08-05-2006, 19:25
Very true, I will do that. I might put about 2-3 points into conversion to get it to 25%, I think putting 1 point into every aura is a good idea, maybe not every skill, I am at lvl 71 so itll take a while to get a point into all those skills, as helpful as I am, finding a good CS is a pain in the butt. So many noobs csing now, ugh. I wonder, what other kinds of oppurtunities this cleric build opens? We could make a whole slew of pally's for specific support, dueling, etc.
He works well in team duels.
Well, you should be able to help those noobs surviving then. :)
Only downside is they will hide behind you, that is where your conversion comes in. With your +skills you should already have more then 25% chance to convert, no need to plug extra points in there.
Naturally, being anti-undead, you could visit the halls of the dead. Or find other places where a lot of undead hang out. Sewers comes to mind, although there are also quite a few monsters there.
Anybody know if Tombs have any monsters or demons in them ?
You can also help out with act 2 games. Since those Ghastly Ghosts are a pain in the lower end of your back, you can be their savior.
Durance is a bit more difficult with those Urdars, but they too can be your friends while you shoot the Blood Lords and Undead Styggian Dolls.
fredsta54
08-05-2006, 19:33
What do you think of an mf cleric that runs all undead areas with HB and sanctuary? Should be fun, and easy leveling into the 70's from "raiding" games
Fred
What do you think of an mf cleric that runs all undead areas with HB and sanctuary? Should be fun, and easy leveling into the 70's from "raiding" games
Fred
I think that the amount of venom lords would easily kick your butt, plus the only good mf would come from seis and vizor in CS. Not to mention all the non undead that are on the river alone, there are no good boss's that are undead, the only one I can think of is Radament. I think you would get easily killed or they would take way to long to be of any good profit. Some chars are not meant for MF.
Naturally, being anti-undead, you could visit the halls of the dead. Or find other places where a lot of undead hang out. Sewers comes to mind, although there are also quite a few monsters there.
Anybody know if Tombs have any monsters or demons in them ?
You can also help out with act 2 games. Since those Ghastly Ghosts are a pain in the lower end of your back, you can be their savior.
Durance is a bit more difficult with those Urdars, but they too can be your friends while you shoot the Blood Lords and Undead Styggian Dolls.
for rapid leveling, I have found that my chantress is a godsend.
I have the luxury of a work supplied laptop, so on weekends, I run two sessions of D2 (I own two legit cd's). I use the chanter to get my newly created character to lvl 20 rapidly, then make normal cows. 5 levels later, I make nm cows, and then leach off of all of the lvl 30s through 50s that still crave nm cowing (And are more than willing to do so with a 1.4k chant).
I even add in some support by chanting the newly created character who is usually using raven claw that I muled over to it.
My chanter can make all levels of cows, and for one good reason, she NEVER goes in the cow portal, on the odd chance that someone partied might hit, or kill the king. anyone wanting a chant has to go to her (usually at the stony wp)
the game is cheap enough to purchase, that if anyone has an extra pc lying around, or access to a laptop, then I highly recomend getting another cd, and making/using a chanter for new chars. it makes the character experimenting a LOT quicker. Even better, having a new character at say level 50 without having spent a single skill point/stat point...
I'm sure it's not a record, but I managed to self rush a new char for a friend (on his account whilst he was out of town) to Hell Cs, and level 50 in about 3 hours of actual game playing time. (actual rush took 55 minutes, and this new sorc arrived to hell cs as a level 2)
I got her to level 20 quickly, by making norm cow games, and whilst the people flocked in (making it a full game), she, with the help of a chant on a regular bow killed in stony to somewhere tween level 5 and 10, from there it was the cats, until the mid teens (raven claw at level 15) from there it's rapid fire levelling doing tomb runs - then cowing as mentioned above :)
Ok, this post is completly irrelevant to what this thread is about. Not to sound all authoritative, but Goomba please read the topic of the thread before you post.
WarlockCC
09-05-2006, 13:01
Ok, this post is completly irrelevant to what this thread is about. Not to sound all authoritative, but Goomba please read the topic of the thread before you post.
His intentions are good, it's just the placement that needs work. :)
Gomba, there is a 'I need to know where to XP..' thread where your post would be most welcomed, because you made a good and complete overview of Ravenclaw 'power'leveling. So if you could re-post it there, that would definately add to that thread.
The problem here is more that he is past the ravenclaw levels and his realm lacks good CS games at his online times. So we where trying to find alternatives where a cleric could level from level 60 upwards.
Ok, I was thinking and I am not going to get conversion. I am thinking that the idea of me trying to convert monsters instead of healing would put me and my team at risk. I am currently getting sanctuary, this is an awsome spell for the whole "Anti-undead" thing. This keeps the undead off your backs, and damages them but without the syngery (Cleansing) It doesnt do much damage. I was thinking, instead if getting every skill I am only going to get relevant ones, and pump cleansing for sanc. This will keep my alive. Hows that sound?
fredsta54
09-05-2006, 18:08
Ok, I was thinking and I am not going to get conversion. I am thinking that the idea of me trying to convert monsters instead of healing would put me and my team at risk. I am currently getting sanctuary, this is an awsome spell for the whole "Anti-undead" thing. This keeps the undead off your backs, and damages them but without the syngery (Cleansing) It doesnt do much damage. I was thinking, instead if getting every skill I am only going to get relevant ones, and pump cleansing for sanc. This will keep my alive. Hows that sound?
Dont rely on sanctuary for magic damage, id just pump it alone for the raidus kb to undead, synergy is useless
Fred
WarlockCC
09-05-2006, 18:17
Dont rely on sanctuary for magic damage, id just pump it alone for the raidus kb to undead, synergy is useless
Fred
Indeed Fred is right, the only damage you might be able to use which you get from the synergy is on your weapon and only affects undead. The same undead which your aura pushes away from you automatically. :)
As for it being more usefull then other aura's. It pushes the undead away, it does not kill them. While if you don't push them away, you will be able to see them and your holy bolt can easily kill them.
Your team will also appreciate the mana and healing they get from meditation much more then undead being pushed to safety when they try to hit them.
I know fred is right, I wasnt going to rely on it for the damage, Mainly the knockback. I am more or less thinking of how I can be helpful to the party. I mainly use meditiation, but if people can hold their own/I see undead rocking them I will pop sanc on and give them some space.
WarlockCC
09-05-2006, 18:49
I know fred is right, I wasnt going to rely on it for the damage, Mainly the knockback. I am more or less thinking of how I can be helpful to the party. I mainly use meditiation, but if people can hold their own/I see undead rocking them I will pop sanc on and give them some space.
Start out with 1 point then and see how and if it works.
I think if you see undead rocking your party members you could heal them with some holy bolts. Or shoot the undead. But they would like mana. Probably the only reason they are being rocked is due to lack of mana.
The problem with having them being swarmed by undead is bolts wont go through undead. Granted I kill them in 2-3 bolts now so its easy to plow through, but havign them all pushed back would make life alot easier, especialy for a swarmed Din. I only put one point into it but iwth my +9 skills it is lvl 10 at lvl 1. It works nicely for pushing them back, plus it is the coolest looking aura.
WarlockCC
09-05-2006, 19:26
The problem with having them being swarmed by undead is bolts wont go through undead. Granted I kill them in 2-3 bolts now so its easy to plow through, but havign them all pushed back would make life alot easier, especialy for a swarmed Din. I only put one point into it but iwth my +9 skills it is lvl 10 at lvl 1. It works nicely for pushing them back, plus it is the coolest looking aura.
That it is. :)
When I do, I put it on for that very reason. oooooooh, shiny ! :)
Please let us know the results of using this aura more often. Like in the examples you mention. I might map it under a hotkey aswell if it receives a raving review from you.
Well though the idea sounds good, the actual knock back and time it takes is a bit long. Its like 2-2.5 seconds in between knockbacks. I dont know fi this increase with the level, but I know the radius does. I might level it up just to see where it goes.
I was also thinking of making a foh cleric. A cleric that uses meditation for mana, convic for dueling, foh +synergies, you know the drill. What do you think of that? Maybe not even meditation, just max prayer.
WarlockCC
10-05-2006, 12:13
Well though the idea sounds good, the actual knock back and time it takes is a bit long. Its like 2-2.5 seconds in between knockbacks. I dont know fi this increase with the level, but I know the radius does. I might level it up just to see where it goes.
I was also thinking of making a foh cleric. A cleric that uses meditation for mana, convic for dueling, foh +synergies, you know the drill. What do you think of that? Maybe not even meditation, just max prayer.
Could work, since then you would be able to take on those Venom Lords.
I find the downside of FoH that you can only attack 1 target at a time.
Having leveled a FoHdin to level 83 quite a bit of which in CS, I found that it doesn't work too well for leveling.
For PvP FoH can work well offcourse, though quite a few people think it lame because one just stands there and casts FoH. I hope you can fill up the FoH synergies otherwise you might not do enough damage. It will be a chalenge to find a good balance of when to use which aura.
Also note that because FoHdins have been around for a while most people that would duel a pala tend to have a 3 topaz shield in their cube.
Personally, I don't think I would make such a build.
Hi
I too was thinking about making a medic type Pally in classic and came up with a few different approaches, aiming at ~90 Skillpoints around lvl 80.
Of course he should be a good healer and support char, so max HBolt and Prayer are essential (40 points). Meditation is needed as well, so are utility skills like salvation, charge and holy shield.
The question is what to focus on as a second skill with the other ~40 points. Ideally, I would want a party pally that can do more than CS runs.
A) Bolt, FoH and Hammers
The most usual type, skilled to get max Bolt damage. The drawback are low defensive capabilities and NOTHING against the non-undead (we're talking hell here).
B) Bolt, FoH but no Hammers
Same as A, but without the BH synergy for the bolts. Note that FoH does not need BH. It would still do ~25x1000 dmg vs. undead and leave 20 points for other useful skills.
The question is, does FoH alone suffice vs. the undead, with the bolt damage cut to half (but enough mana)? Or do clerics need HBolt more?
I need some experience values here.
C) Healing Smiter/Missionary
This is a "medic" build. He would use HBolt only for healing, no FoH, and have more points in other support auras like meditation.
He would be well protected with high Holy Shield and use Smite for self-defense (knock and run) or to work as a stunner for the team. In earlier levels - and with other paladins spending fana/conc, he could even do decent Smite damage.
Alternatively, as the ultimate "non-violence" approach in a hack'n'slay game, he could use conversion. :)
Your thoughts?
Basaically it comes down to this:
- Is a max damage HBolt really needed besides max FoH?
- How useful is a stunning Smiter to the team? Was the stun length also reduced to 1/4 in Hell?
- Is conversion woth the effort? Even with low defense?
fledgeling
21-10-2006, 03:51
I would go for cleric + blessed hammers, although I have never tried such a character. You would be a hammerdin support of some sort
Perhaps try venegance instead of smite? You would need a nice +2 all skills BH with HIGH damage
No, I don't think that would work. Hammer damage is laughable without the synergies, and for any usual attack skill to work you need a lot of AR that a caster can't afford.
BUT
I just came up with the coolest idea. :) I'm not sure whether it's been there before, but I truly find it so amazing that I got up out of bed to write you about it.
So... max HBolt damage kicks massive undead ***, but does nothing against other monsters. We want to go +skills and hi res, so anything that needs AR is out of question. Going melee for conversion is dangerous with low defense, the monsters still have to be hit when "returning", and Smite knocks 'em around but doesn't kill much either without synergies and fana - much like anything else you get for ~25 points.
However, someone mentioned Holy Frost earlier. As a fan of frostie palas I put this to good use with Zeal and even ranged. And it is the ultimate in defense skills. On the other hand - to make good use of it, you still have to HIT things.
Or do you?
Get a load of this. Although I was coming from a Cleric, it's kind of a mixture between a Missionary and a Templar. I call it:
THE LIGHTBRINGER
==============
1) Max Holy Bolt, FoH and BH as synergy. Undead will die all over.
2) Scrap Prayer. This will reduce the Bolt's healing to 1/4, but we won't need that much beaucse of...
3) Max Holy Frost. This will slow everything by 54% or more, helping the party a lot, and making it MUCH safer to use...
4) Conversion. This works against all those other monsters, a few points suffice (we got +skills remember). Only his time, the monsters are slow! - Until they get converted, at which point they can quickly engage their frozen "friends".
Best of all: As soon as they reconvert with 1 health, the pulse damage will kill them off! And if they are cold immune, smite them or just use HF.
5) Put all other points in other defensive auras or Holy Shield. +Skills should be enough to make them strong and make you an even more valuable party supporter.
So we have a walking freezer who protects everyone by slowing the monsters (like Inf...), can heal, uses many auras, creates meat shields and even kills through conversion, and just slaughters the undead with pretty light effects.
As a bonus, he can easily level through norm using Holy Frost/Fire and Zeal.
Final equip is +skills and res as said before, and IAS/FCR where possible. With a weapon that only has to be quick and a shield (max block of course), we got plenty of room for that.
+Mana would be nice as well, as mana could be an issue unless you switch to meditation often or drink pots.
The only real problem for this build are non-undead monsters that cannot be converted, i.e. bosses. No problem since this is supposed to be a team build (just stick to healing), but one could bring along a Wizendraw and some +AR gear to turn him into half a frost ranger at such occasions - which would grant him theoretical solo ability for all but non-undead, cold-immune bosses.
Now how does THAT sound? :)
I guess I just wrote my first guide.
I can't wait to try this, unfortunateyl I won't have time until wednesday.
But tell me what you think.
Forget what I said about mana. Since your enemies have already repented and seen the light before they died (or at least had it blasted at them) you will, of course, grant them Redemption. Stupid me.
One issue with this build is that it is expensive to max, and you have to raise several skills at once.
After filling in the basic combat skills and some points into Holy Bolt (depending on how early you want to assume your role) I'd personally pump some points into Holy Freeze as soon as it's available, and use it for melee as long as that's effective before switching to conversion. At that point you should get a +skills +3/x/x scepter and some useful auras to act as a supporter while pumping HolyBolt and FoH. Leave out the BH first to get the most out of FoH.
Later you can decide whether you want to invest in BH to further increase your Bolt's damage or rather in Prayer to increase its healing.
Example of a lvl 90 Lightbringer:
DEFENSIVE AURAS
1 point each except resist fire/lightning/cold
7 total
OFFENSIVE AURAS
20 holy frost
3 prereqs
23 total
COMBAT SKILLS
20 Holy Bolt
20 Fist of Heavens
20 Blessed Hammer
5 Conversion
1 in each other skill (6)
99 total
any additional points would go into prayer, holy shield, or conversion.
Correction:
It would be wise to take 5-6 points off BH or HF and invest them into Prayer early. While this takes about 10% off your HBolt damage (or some radius from HF), having 7 points in prayer already doubles the Bolt's healing force - giving it half the effectiveness of a maxed HB/Prayer.
As a final remark, some people might want to spend another 2 points to get Sanctuary (e.g. for solo crypt runs). On the other hand, HF should get the job done nicely.
So... no objections?
I guess the idea of having a HolyFrost'ing cleric around (instead of pure mediatation) isn't being disliked then.
Well I'll see ya around - if you want to team up, look for Iscariot_XIII on the Europe SC Ladder.
WarlockCC
23-10-2006, 12:15
I could try mapping Holy Freeze on my healer to see what it does. it will only be level 11 for him though, but that should be enough to see the effects.
Most of the time I prefer to have Meditation on, because other paladins suck up all the corpses, so I have nothing to redeem. With Holy Freeze I think there will be even less corpses to go around. With other paladins Conc aura I can still squeeze a meager 2.5k or so damage from my hammers. It is far easier to just let other people kill the living though, that allows me to focus on the undead.
-= rant moment =-
It's odd that even with more experienced players(87+) in the game and after keeping them alive in the fector's pack several games in a row, some people still choose to play "hide behind paladin". They see a pala, they presume that it's a tank. Well, my healer is far from that. Most of his res is in fact negative. It doesn't get trough their skull that I can keep them alive indefinately as long as they don't let some Venom Lords set me ablaze. I am watching their back, but they don't watch mine. This is usually only the case with characters other then hammerdins, since with a hammerdin, I just stand within the circle of death so nothing bothers me for very long.
-= end of rant =-
If you do want to kill undead you will need to fill the synergies. If you can't kill them within 3 Holy Bolts, it's useless to get any of the damage synergies and you'd be better off taking prayer to the limit. Also remember that +skills helps prayer, so take that into account for the final equasion.
If you are just running with a hammerdin by your side(all the other players just being shadows that follow you and do nothing), you should use Holy Freeze, because the pala will get his shot of life and mana after the kills.
If you have 2 or more active casters(Orb/Blizz/Bone), Meditation might be more appreciated. Sounds to me like you have played a supporting paladin before and probably already have a good feel for what a party needs.
B) Bolt, FoH but no Hammers
Same as A, but without the BH synergy for the bolts. Note that FoH does not need BH. It would still do ~25x1000 dmg vs. undead and leave 20 points for other useful skills.
The question is, does FoH alone suffice vs. the undead, with the bolt damage cut to half (but enough mana)? Or do clerics need HBolt more?
I need some experience values here.
I can vouch for this build. Holy Bolt does not need maxed BH and the skill points are much better placed in conviction, which not only allows FoH to be a viable backup skill but it breaks immunities for your party members--which, alternating with Meditation, tends to be very appreciated.
I could try mapping Holy Freeze on my healer to see what it does. it will only be level 11 for him though, but that should be enough to see the effects.
Most of the time I prefer to have Meditation on, because other paladins suck up all the corpses, so I have nothing to redeem. With Holy Freeze I think there will be even less corpses to go around. With other paladins Conc aura I can still squeeze a meager 2.5k or so damage from my hammers. It is far easier to just let other people kill the living though, that allows me to focus on the undead.
Holy Freeze is better suited for handling Extra fast spawns. Otherwise, it's not used so much. :undecided:
- Akukami
Thanks for your comments.
To my dismay I just found out that the conversion "bug" of mosnters returning with almost no health has been removed, so no easy killing with conversion + pulse damage. :(
Still, I think I will stick to this build, maybe with some minor changes. While not being able to kill them, it can still easily avoid any non-undead or turn them into meatshields, while slowing everything else by 56% in a 30 yard radius. That alone makes holy freeze very useful imho (and I still have meditation to switch to).
And it IS great for leveling. I don't like being rushed, and right now I'm having fun clubbing Megademons to death with a Felloak.
Btw I just saw that a FoH on lvl 30 hitting within a pack of undead will do 35 x 2200 damage - for 25 mana. Can't wait to see them drop. 8)
It only proves difficult to find good team players who are not rushers or cheating kiddies... :\
Another correction:
It DOES work. Sometimes.
Some Maggots and Urdars in Nm Act 2 were slain by the aura as soon as they came out of conversion. On the other hand, this did not work in other places.
Do you know of any pattern behind this? Does it depend on the difficulty, number of players, whatever?
Otherwise I guess I have to do some research on this.
I found out. :)
Sure it took a while, and all my chars have expired since then. But now I'm playing again, made another Lightbringer, and just read that only monsters of a HIGHER LEVEL than you are affected by this.
Ill test that, but if its true it would be one hell of an exploit.
WarlockCC
20-03-2008, 01:59
My level 90 should then be able to convert and swat any monster, but afaik those Venom Lords will still return with full life.
EagleEntek
21-03-2008, 10:20
Just to say that my expired previous ladder cleric reached the late lvl 87 and is still going, is my highest char and the most fun.
20 holy bolt, 20 foh, 20 hammer, 10 salvation, rest on convict and pre reqs - ive got a 14k holy bolt, which with foh can clear a room quite well with only a couple of shots. THose +2 weapons and shields are really good for boosting dmg - it does make you wonder why holy bolt is so overpowered but the paladin really IS a natural undead killer.
SLap a shard on though and you turn into a rapid fire magic star shooter :)
In my experience though as is mentioned earlier, most hammerdins run from one seal to another - sorcs orbing theyre way through the packs to slow em down - i just sprint alongside boosting peoples resistances and popping shots at mages and hoping i can get the last shots at Lord seis while hammerdin is busy dealing with minions.
Wearing a 3 socket topaz hat, chanceguard gloves, mf shoes, goldwrap belt, silks, nagel rings, mf +2 amu and salvation means that anything undead i kill e.g. Lord Seis and Vizior usualy drop yellows in hell - which is good :D
Anyone dubious of this build should really try it - but as everyone has mentioned earlier you really need a good party for anything undead :(
WarlockCC
21-03-2008, 11:48
14k holy bolt is pretty impressive, since the highest you can get in classic is :
10038 - 11382
you really need a good party for anything undead :(
With my build you don't, that's the trick.
Sure you cannot kill them, but while they are slowed and converted you can run through any number of packs and kill the undead among them.
Or just go into the Crypt, Ancient Tunnels and Durance. Even CS is possible but the Demons are rather fast.
EagleEntek
11-04-2008, 13:07
(minor edit to my previous post thats a 4k bolt not 14 (late night posting))
Holy freeze, bolts and conversion - an idea that popped into my head is with the simple 1 pt into zeal, you could slap on a cleglaw sword and gloves (dmg by char lvl) which gives you a bit of knockback and dmg with the holy freeze aura - whereby giving you a slight edge in terms of trying to convert or kill non undeads.
I experimented earlier this week with alternate build using hammers and bolts, using a 15 pt max idea:
15 bolts, 15 hammers, 15 vigor, 15 blessed aim, 5 holy shield, 15 foh - rest into party auras - you see with a +2 weapon, +2 shield and +1 amulet / tarn, that gives you a lvl 20 hammer with 2 synergies and a nice holy bolt - at lvl 76 being able to solo the Hell CS and shoot those pesky ghosts and bone mages from a distance with bolts was always my goal, but being able to kill venom lords with my hammers too - and it works!
Its good to see better paladin builds - i was reading the old Diablo manual this week and it mentions priests like Cathan creating the Holy bolt spell so knights could charge across the battlefield slaughtering demons and shooting undead - would be nice to see the paladin looking like the knight hes sposed to be with his auras than all these little orange and red dagger carrying jelly baby twirlers :prop:
Problem with Zeal is that it needs AR... and that is does not convert. ;)
Conversion does not need AR... that's why, with Frost or Fana, it is a great addition to any non-AR Pala like Smiter or one relying on "ignore defense".
Cleansing can be better than meditation, since it heals minions too. also good in chaos sanctuary against im.
The prayer synergy also works with +skills, so a sceptre with +2 to all skill, +3 to holy bolt and +3 to prayer would probably work better than one that gives to meditation.
I decided to try this Cleric build with the new ladder reset on Hardcore.
My disappointment came mainly from the gameplay within the party. While the party consistently had 6-8 members I had trouble figuring out the style of play in HC.
People were just running around and not killing anything. I was one of the few that was killing, and very often I would find myself abandoned and surrounded by a pack of lightning enchanted Scarabs. I could tank them forever due to the healing, but killing took long.
In Maggot Lair, I found the hole to the next level and i informed the party but they were just running through the tunnels and not killing anything, what were they looking for?
I thought a cleric would be good addition to a HC party, but SOMEONE has to do the killing!
Still, it seems to be a fun build, but it's pretty boring when it takes 10 hits to kill a monsters and everyone else is just running around, skiping dangerous monsters, that follow the party.
:scratchhead:
i made a healer in the last few weeks of ladder. it worked very well.
i went for fcr over +skills, and basically like taking a mini-gun over a shotgun. i had like 5k bolts at 78, like 70/80fcr which worked very well. yes the demons are pesky in cs, tru that.
my build was at the time of 78 beleive like this [cant check cuz i deleted him]
max prayer up to lvl 4-5 meditation, then used med the whole time
max bolts [duh]
max hammers [helped to lvl in norm cows and even did some nm cs and weakhell cs with base hammers, still worked well and would be one of the first things i maxed in hardcore
lvl2-4 holyshield
lvl15+ FOH, so i bascially went all out for bolt dmg, making sure my aura was decent as well. he was well loved and no one would die from anything, i do mean anyhing as long as my bolts were hitting them healing like 400-500? cant remember.
i found the fcr superior keeping someone alive with quicker healing and as long as u hit undead u will stun lock them and kill them.
word up to the healers !! ima make one on hardcore once i get a few extra shards...
and btw its very easy, and holy freeze sounds very interesting.... very...
> holy freeze sounds very interesting...
It is, believe me. Slowing everything to half speed provides more safety than all the healing a prayer effect can do - especially when you move in to convert, which creates even more safety by basically stopping the mobs in place (Inf minions come to mind).
It seems a waste that the damage on the attacks isn't used, but the slow alone is worth it. It even seems to stack with other cold slows... and if you ever have enough slow, you can still use other auras with all the +skills.
I'm making my third char of this type as a first attempt in HC, and people are loving it.
EagleEntek
23-06-2008, 11:20
Where are you guys playing that you can find party members capable of killing monsters beyond act 1 in nightmare ?
All i see these days (probably more so from ladder reset) - is barbs with no bos at lvl 70+, who cannot ww, sorcs with only orb maxed (and no cold masteries), and lots and lots and lots of paladins with hammers, fanatasicm, holy freeze, bolts, foh, zeal, convert and harpoons all in the same build because a pala can truly do it all at once!
Where are you guys playing that you can find party members capable of killing monsters beyond act 1 in nightmare ?
You are luckier than me. I couldn't find party members to finish Act 4 normal. As far as NM is concerned... I don't even want to think about.
The idea seems to be to get rushed to hell. So find a high lvl char and ask to get rushed so you finish the game, then start new char and do the same, this seems to be the general consensus. Nobody is actually killing, except the rusher!
All i see these days (probably more so from ladder reset) - is barbs with no bos at lvl 70+, who cannot ww, sorcs with only orb maxed (and no cold masteries), and lots and lots and lots of paladins with hammers, fanatasicm, holy freeze, bolts, foh, zeal, convert and harpoons all in the same build because a pala can truly do it all at once!
You forgot to mention skellimancers with no curses!
EagleEntek
24-06-2008, 11:48
Skelliemancers with no curses? How about skelliemancers that cast iron maiden on everything, and when you cast amp dmg so the skellies can kill quicker they overcast iron maiden back on top *aaaaarrggghhh* :nod:
HegemonKhan
24-06-2008, 12:27
ya u can really only have 1 curse on at time.
there are a few exceptions:
1. attract curse 1 monster, than curse the rest with whatever. the attract curse can't get overridden by the other curse u cast which is nice.
2a. if your a single target hitter, than u can curse all the mosnters with whateer u want than curse the single monster u are attacking with whatever curse.
2b. for example: a melee/ranged weapon attacking bone wall/prison necro. u cast bone wall and prison than u cast maxed IM on monsters. u than cast lvl 1 amp on the monster u wanna attack with your melee/ranged weapon, and because its lvl 1, it only overrides that mosnters IM curse and not all the other mosnters.
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