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XAndrewX

05-05-2006, 03:33

XAndrewX

05-05-2006, 03:41

Ok random, but Im thinking of this for a MF barb

Helm: High Tarnhelm (have a tarn)
Weapon: I gotta get a good mart with mana steal (Im reppin steeldriver at the moment)
Shield:None
Armor: Anglic Mantle
Gloves: Sigon's Gage
Boots: Sigs
Belt: sigs
Amulet: Anglic Wings
Rings: Angelic Halo x 2

Think hed be good. Barb is lvl 59 right now.

Dacar92

05-05-2006, 04:13

Check this out:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=127257

XAndrewX. there is an edit button. Please use it to change, or add to, your post. You can change a post for up to an hour.
Thanks

Palm

05-05-2006, 07:44

squiggle

05-05-2006, 10:35

Im using the same equip as you andrew exceot im wearing sigons helm and using a bsnap. I use this Char for mfing but onli have 150 mf or so

It works for me because i like the ar but it up to you :)

P.s. thanks akukami for helpin clean out ma mules ;)

WarlockCC

05-05-2006, 11:34

Well, Andrew, you're in the right place to learn. :wink3:

Couple of points:

1) Forget about the martels, the strength requirements are murder. Hell mode is a hard place, you need life, you need to think defensive. Sure martels have their uses but that's for experienced players, no offense. Bonesnap, unique maul, goes toe-to-toe with the most godly of martels for PvM. Read up on the Crushing Blow mod.

The only thing I personally would have a problem with is the mana consumption. You need some kind of manaleech, so like you said a mart with manaleech would be perfect for such a build. Once you find one you can get your str up to 159 (sig gloves add another 10, so you can use the mart) This extra str gives you more damage aswell, so monsters will die faster.
As long as you get yourself max Battle Orders, you will have more then enough life.

Snap is nice for PvM, just not on this kind of MF barb build cause it would cost another slot somewhere to get your Manaleech, which would cost you MF, so I would advise against that.

2) Angelics I can understand, sorta, but sigs? It's crap, you dont need it, don't use it. Use stuff with life/resists/MF/defense. Rares, uniques, even magic with good mods. Max those resists.

Actually, because he's wearing 3 sigs, the boots will give him 50MF, the belt will give him 2 per level extra defence, the boots offcourse give their default 40Cold res, the belt it's 20 fire res, the gloves give 30ias(might be handy when Bezerk attacking a physical immune, like the ones that hang around Bone Ash in Hell, or sometimes one of the council is PI.)
So imho his setup is quite solid. In fact, this is the cookie cutter MF barb. Once he used him a bit he could 'upgrade' him with other MF items, sure, but as a base MF barb when you start off with little items, you can't beat this.

3) You're a melee class, your damage depends on weapon, +skills do little for you. Use 3 Perfect Topaz helm over even perfect Tarn (some might disagree with me here though).
Tarn offcourse gives Goldfind and gold can be used to gamble. Since you need a reasonably high level char to gamble +2 amulets, I suggest using the gold to gamble rings, mind you, 99 out of 100 things you gamble will be quite useless, so don't expect to get one super ring after another. Although it's gambling, so that could happen, the chance is just very slim.

From what I can tell, you have between 175% up to 200% MF depending on your tarn. I would think this a good number.

Good luck with it, you have the right ideas.

Kiwi Legend

05-05-2006, 12:17

WarlockCC

05-05-2006, 12:24

Alright its me again with some more... beginner questions.

I read how people describe their items and Im at a loss for words, because I cant understand it. I know "ed" means enchanced defense. Or when describing a shield "30/20" means 30 def and 20% chance to block.. well I think so anyways. Could people explain to me what things like "fhr" and stuff like that means?
Please dont laugh..too hard.
ED would indeed mean Enhanced Defence on a armor(which could range from 1 to 100) and on a weapon it would be Enhanced Damage(which could range from 1 to 200)

fhr is a abbriviation for Faster Hit Recovery
When your itemless character gets hit he'll have a brief moment that he cannot move, he 's stunned(not talking about those urdar's smite which puts little stars over your head). You can make the time that your character is stunned like this shorter by getting more faster hit recovery. This can and will save your character's life.

frw is a abbriviation for Faster Run Walk
you can find this on boots a lot, on some unique armors and as a set bonus with 3 Iratha's.

fo is a abbriviation for Frozen Orb
Sorc skill, widely used, you know you know it. :)

ts is sometimes used as a abbriviation for Thunder Storm, sometimes for TelekinesiS, usually from the post you will be able to make out which one is being referred to.

While playing Diablo a 'es' is a Experience Shrine
If it's somewhere in a post here, it is more likely to refer to Energy Shield, sorc skill.

bvb is a indication that the character is a Barbarian 'designed' to fight other Barbarians.

ow refers to Open Wounds
A skill which can cause a target to start bleeding for a dozen seconds or so, the higher the level of the one who 'inflicts' the wound, the more life the target will lose per second. Works like poison, doesn't stack, any additional hit will just reset the time counter and won't make the target bleed more per second. Great for carvers and kin. :)

cb refers to Crushing Blow, a chance to cause a hit just on the right spot, causing the target to lose 25% of his current life regardless of the damage of your weapon(unless the normal weapon hit would do more damage, then you inflict that damage in stead). Superuniques and players are more resistant to this and you will usually only cause 1 16th of their life to go. Uniques and champs also have a bit of resist against this, so only 1 8th of their life.

fr or fres refers to fire res

You can prolly figure out lr, lres, cr and cres for yourself

pr can refer to a Perfect Ruby when socketing or sockets is being discussed but on items it usually means there is poison resist on the item.

If you find more which are unclear, just ask here.

XAndrewX

05-05-2006, 15:03

The only thing I personally would have a problem with is the mana consumption. You need some kind of manaleech, so like you said a mart with manaleech would be perfect for such a build. Once you find one you can get your str up to 159 (sig gloves add another 10, so you can use the mart) This extra str gives you more damage aswell, so monsters will die faster.
As long as you get yourself max Battle Orders, you will have more then enough life.

Snap is nice for PvM, just not on this kind of MF barb build cause it would cost another slot somewhere to get your Manaleech, which would cost you MF, so I would advise against that.

Actually, because he's wearing 3 sigs, the boots will give him 50MF, the belt will give him 2 per level extra defence, the boots offcourse give their default 40Cold res, the belt it's 20 fire res, the gloves give 30ias(might be handy when Bezerk attacking a physical immune, like the ones that hang around Bone Ash in Hell, or sometimes one of the council is PI.)
So imho his setup is quite solid. In fact, this is the cookie cutter MF barb. Once he used him a bit he could 'upgrade' him with other MF items, sure, but as a base MF barb when you start off with little items, you can't beat this.

Tarn offcourse gives Goldfind and gold can be used to gamble. Since you need a reasonably high level char to gamble +2 amulets, I suggest using the gold to gamble rings, mind you, 99 out of 100 things you gamble will be quite useless, so don't expect to get one super ring after another. Although it's gambling, so that could happen, the chance is just very slim.

From what I can tell, you have between 175% up to 200% MF depending on your tarn. I would think this a good number.

Good luck with it, you have the right ideas.

Also the sigs give 10% life stolen per hit.

Palm

05-05-2006, 23:18

The only thing I personally would have a problem with is the mana consumption. A) He's using angelics, thats 20% DTM, he don't need leech. B) He should be going for act bosses/council/stuff like that, even without DTM he still don't need leech, use the mana pot! C) A magic ring can have up to 40% MF AND mana leech. (Keep leaving those magic rings on the ground noobs, I appreciate it).

Actually, because he's wearing 3 sigs, the boots will give him 50MF 3 items 50MF, well hurra.

Tarn offcourse gives Goldfind and gold can be used to gamble. I don't think you're recomending the use of Tarn for the goldfind, are you? If you want gold just pick up all the armors and exceptional items that you find each run and sell them for 35k a piece. Most times I dont even bother with all of those (inventory is full and im putting off muling or whatever).

HardkoreHarry

06-05-2006, 00:32

ED would indeed mean Enhanced Defence on a armor(which could range from 1 to 100) and on a weapon it would be Enhanced Damage(which could range from 1 to 200)

On rare items the lowest enhanced defence and damage you can get is 10.

fhr is a abbriviation for Faster Hit Recovery
When your itemless character gets hit he'll have a brief moment that he cannot move, he 's stunned

You are only put into hit recovery animation when your life gets reduced in one hit by 1/12 or more. Excpetions are leap, the swirly thing above your head from berserk or getting smited, etc.

ow refers to Open Wounds
A skill which can cause a target to start bleeding for a dozen seconds or so, the higher the level of the one who 'inflicts' the wound, the more life the target will lose per second. Works like poison, doesn't stack, any additional hit will just reset the time counter and won't make the target bleed more per second. Great for carvers and kin. :)

Open wounds works over a 8 second duration. The damage is based on the attacker's character lvl. It gets reduced in pvp and when activated using range weapons (ex. bows). Consult the strategy compendium for information on the exact damage and how much it gets reduced by in pvp or with ranged weapons.

It doesn't work like poison at all. Poison can be resisted (decreasing the dmg/frame) and the duration shortened (plr items), or even stopped abruptly with antidotes. Open wounds works like negative replenish life.

cb refers to Crushing Blow, a chance to cause a hit just on the right spot, causing the target to lose 25% of his current life regardless of the damage of your weapon(unless the normal weapon hit would do more damage, then you inflict that damage in stead). Superuniques and players are more resistant to this and you will usually only cause 1 16th of their life to go. Uniques and champs also have a bit of resist against this, so only 1 8th of their life.

If crushing blow triggers, then the attacked monster/character get its life reduced by x% and then the damage from the attack is applied. I have no idea where you get the bit about "unless the normal weapon hit would do more damage, then you inflict that damage in stead," I have never heard anything like that before. Crushing blow (from a melee weapon) removes 1/10the of the life from a player. Refer to the strategy compendium for more info.

I hesitated on posting this, because last time I corrected Warlock he went into a hissy fit about it. But in the end I figured that if someone asks a question, he might as well get the truth for an answer.

A magic ring can have up to 40% MF AND mana leech. (Keep leaving those magic rings on the ground noobs, I appreciate it).

Three affixes on a magic item huh? Can you post a screenshot of this? You can get 40 mf on a magic ring, or you can get 15 mf and mana leech, but not 40 mf and mana leech.

WarlockCC

06-05-2006, 00:36

A) He's using angelics, thats 20% DTM, he don't need leech. B) He should be going for act bosses/council/stuff like that, even without DTM he still don't need leech, use the mana pot! C) A magic ring can have up to 40% MF AND mana leech. (Keep leaving those magic rings on the ground noobs, I appreciate it).

3 items 50MF, well hurra.

I don't think you're recomending the use of Tarn for the goldfind, are you? If you want gold just pick up all the armors and exceptional items that you find each run and sell them for 35k a piece. Most times I dont even bother with all of those (inventory is full and im putting off muling or whatever).
Did you ever fine a fortuitous ring of chance with 40MF in all the time that you have been playing ? Well, then angelics will do very nicely for somebody who rescently started empty, won't they ?

I am advising the tarn over a 3 sock helm any day on a MF barb. Feel free to hold a tarn or 3 sock mask on a barb poll. This is not a sorc. And maybe you should build yourself a GF/MF barb and then judge about the gold output. Do you have room to pick up all those 35k armors ? And do you spend all your time shutteling them to town ?
To me tarn means higher BO, higher mastery, higher WW, higher nat res, higher frw, higher howl, 75GF and then some.
What if you have all those armors AND the 12k-30k gold the council members drop ? With popping that can go up to 60k per councilmember. 300k per run ?

Wow, you just missed 90% of what I typed and only quoted that one sentance because it seemed to suit your needs. I'm all for freedom of press and all, but this is a blatant misquote if I ever saw one. :)
Sigs is not about 50MF, that is merely a bonus.

Imho, the simple fact is that when one starts out, this is great for MF'ing, nothing better.
It's better to have more effective equip like sigs then to take 5 times as long doing a run wearing 500+MF
I'll list the advantages again, because it's easy to read over them, miss them all and mistakenly think 3 sigs only give 50MF :
50MF
100def
2 def per level (up to 209 def just in the belt, can you find belts with such def elsewhere in classic ? Yes, hsarus, which is also a set. )
30ias
20frw
40cres
20fres
10str
10% ll
20 life
70ar (best one in the lot this is)

I chalenge anybody to come up with boots, a belt and gloves that do all that bessides sigs.(naturally availability of such items will be factored in, since we are dealing with MF starter barb) :)

Palm

06-05-2006, 03:50

Three affixes on a magic item huh? Can you post a screenshot of this? You can get 40 mf on a magic ring, or you can get 15 mf and mana leech, but not 40 mf and mana leech.I stand corrected. I didn't realize it used up the 2 affixes to get MF that high but I checked the item database here and you're indeed correct.

Did you ever fine a fortuitous ring of chance with 40MF in all the time that you have been playing? Yes as a matter of fact I did find such a ring.Feel free to hold a tarn or 3 sock mask on a barb poll.Makes no difference to me the outcome of such a poll.This is not a sorc. When you say "this is not a sorc" do you mean to say tarn is more advisable on a barb than a sorc?Do you have room to pick up all those 35k armors ?Usually.And do you spend all your time shutteling them to town?Certainly not. I do my MF runs chop chop. I just don't think gold is very important, and I get tons of it anyway when im MFing. Gambling is a crap shot at best. I certainly don't consider goldfind an equipment consideration nore do I pick up piles of gold that drop off monsters. It's just not worth the effort needed to click on it. I'm all for freedom of press and all, but this is a blatant misquote if I ever saw one.If I don't quote a paragraph in its entirety it's because I don't think it's necessary not because I ignore what you said. What you wrote is there, everyone can see it, there's no need for me to repeat it all in my post.Sigs is not about 50MF, that is merely a bonus. I'm well aware that sigs has other mods.:rolleyes: What about all the other mods you could get from those slots using other items? And if you want to discuss sig mods then lets: IAS on a barb? Dunno bout you but I'm perma WWed so 100 IAS or 0 it's all the same to me. LifeLeech? Bleh leech is nerfed to hell anyway. 10str 40cr 20fr 20life 70ar? You want to compare that with what you can get off some rare, or hell even magic, stuff? The extra def is nice but please.

WarlockCC

08-05-2006, 16:28

I stand corrected. I didn't realize it used up the 2 affixes to get MF that high but I checked the item database here and you're indeed correct.

Yes as a matter of fact I did find such a ring.Makes no difference to me the outcome of such a poll. When you say "this is not a sorc" do you mean to say tarn is more advisable on a barb than a sorc?

Yes, I would wear a tarn on a MF/GF barb rather then a 3 sock MF helm.
And on a MF sorc, I would use a 3 sock MF helm to go for max MF.

Usually.Certainly not. I do my MF runs chop chop. I just don't think gold is very important, and I get tons of it anyway when im MFing. Gambling is a crap shot at best. I certainly don't consider goldfind an equipment consideration nore do I pick up piles of gold that drop off monsters. It's just not worth the effort needed to click on it.

Ah, ok, you didn't try a GF barb yet, that explains it all. But you do have high level chars with which you gamble +2 amulets ? You should not build a GF barb, they are quite addictive as is the gambling, eh TDL ? :)
Gambling is a nice diversion from the continual repetative grinding that is MF runs.

If I don't quote a paragraph in its entirety it's because I don't think it's necessary not because

Somebody else might wish to read the full story without having to scroll up and down ten times.

I ignore what you said.

So I too have to learn to enjoy taking things out of context. :)

What you wrote is there, everyone can see it, there's no need for me to repeat it all in my post.
I'm well aware that sigs has other mods.:rolleyes: What about all the other mods you could get from those slots using other items? And if you want to discuss sig mods then lets: IAS on a barb? Dunno bout you but I'm perma WWed so 100 IAS or 0 it's all the same to me. LifeLeech? Bleh leech is nerfed to hell anyway. 10str 40cr 20fr 20life 70ar? You want to compare that with what you can get off some rare, or hell even magic, stuff? The extra def is nice but please.
Please read my thread for a example of where this IAS can be usefull, as you said, it's up there for everybody to read, so I can't believe one could read over that. I guess lots of Diablo affects eyesight. ;)
10 ll is better then 0 ll on a melee char in my humble oppinion, though there might be more who share this view.
10 str saves statpoints which can then be used in vit, more life means more chance to survive. Or, if one goes for full req's for a martel, this 10 str will provide more damage. Every point in str equals 1.1 procent more damage on a martelbarb.
40 cres means less damage from cold attacks, Torc and his two goons are known to cause a good amount of Cold damage with their attacks.
20 fres can help you agains Glebb Flamefinger for obvious reasons.
20 life is just nice to have, how little it may seem. Same goes for the ar. That 70 AR, multiplied by the WW and mastery bonus goes a long way. Granted, it is slightly overshadowed by the Angelics's 12 ar per charlevel.

He is starting out, he has these sigons and you type "You need rares and these fancy rings which give 40MF in stead of the 50MF ones you are using".
Does this mean you will give him all these rares ? :)

Let's just give him concrete help in stead. Those three Sigons are the best you can have to start your MF barb, especially when combined with Angelic ring, amy and armor. These are easy to get for anybody, so handy if you are just starting on a realm or right after a Ladder reset.

When you start out you can use a 3 sock MF helm. They are relatively easy to get since you have lots of str you can wear anything from a imho, ugly mask up to a stylish winged helm.

If you happen to find a Tarn, I would advise changing the 3 sock for a tarn.
I would use either a martel with Manaleech or a Manald.

From there on you can upgrade as you go, either to a GF / MF barb like I have or a MF barb which Palm will hopefully describe for us.

On my GF / MF barb I use the following, feel free to critizise as much as I'll feel free to ignore it ;)
Tarn
Goldskin
Chanceguards
Goldwrap
rare boots with 80% goldfind and some res.
a martel with ML
Rare ring with Goldfind and some ll
Angelic amulet and angelic ring

The Angelic ring and amulet combination allows me to hit more so the runs are done faster, allowing me to do more runs.
The tarn gives MF and GF
The Goldskin gives GF and 35 res all
The Goldwrap gives MF and GF
The rare ring allows me to leech life and gives some more GF

because of all this goldfind, the council's gold drops varry from 12000 up to 25000, sometimes several piles per council member. Popping usually doubles the total.
This allows me to sell all the exceptional armors and items I find AND get the gold dropped by the council, making my runs worth anything from 150k to 300k.

WarlockCC

08-05-2006, 17:54

On rare items the lowest enhanced defence and damage you can get is 10.

You are only put into hit recovery animation when your life gets reduced in one hit by 1/12 or more. Excpetions are leap, the swirly thing above your head from berserk or getting smited, etc.

Open wounds works over a 8 second duration. The damage is based on the attacker's character lvl. It gets reduced in pvp and when activated using range weapons (ex. bows). Consult the strategy compendium for information on the exact damage and how much it gets reduced by in pvp or with ranged weapons.

It doesn't work like poison at all. Poison can be resisted (decreasing the dmg/frame) and the duration shortened (plr items), or even stopped abruptly with antidotes. Open wounds works like negative replenish life.

If crushing blow triggers, then the attacked monster/character get its life reduced by x% and then the damage from the attack is applied. I have no idea where you get the bit about "unless the normal weapon hit would do more damage, then you inflict that damage in stead," I have never heard anything like that before. Crushing blow (from a melee weapon) removes 1/10the of the life from a player. Refer to the strategy compendium for more info.

I hesitated on posting this, because last time I corrected Warlock he went into a hissy fit about it.

I'm sorry that I did not realise the value you would place on my earlier reply, for me, that was just another wednesday.
I hope you won't start celebrating Warlock-replied-to-me-day. ;)
Maybe it should simply be forgotten, like I have, in the very hour I posted, as this whole 'hissy fit' as it is imagined by some, was never important to me in the first place.
I do think it's sweet of you to remember though. I'm flattered.

But in the end I figured that if someone asks a question, he might as well get the truth for an answer.

Actually, the above are all welcome additions, wording trouble asside that is.
I do hope we can allways just add to eachother as that is what this forum is for. We shouldn't go around implying another person lied as this is trolling.
Simply say things like "My good forum collegue, you missed this detail about this skill/abbriviation/effect" rather then the Invader Zim method of "YOU LIE !"
Although it sounds funny when Zim says that, real people don't actually do that.

Please note the context of my reference to poison damage, it is in the same sentance.
Open Wounds is the same as poison in the sense that it cannot stack from the same poison source. The counter will simply be reset upon another hit.

And about the crushing blow, I was not aware that the CB actually was a side-effect which stacks with the normal damage. Due to the naming I thought it would be in stead of the normal damage.
I guess that is where my complete lack of understanding of Diablo shines trough.
Or I could try to blame it on the rough diamond that is the description I got from Arreat.

My posts should be taken lightly and definately not as the absolute word of Diablo. If I have upset you with what I like to think of as humor, I appologise, I did not intend for anybody to think I was angry at them in any way. I honestly can't get angry or throw a hissy fit over text written on a forum by a total stranger who does not know my personality(or if I even have one ?).

For it is written in the sacred book which is the manual of Diablo, that thou shalt have fun whilst playing.

Diablo allways tells me that I don't understand his feelings either.

Three affixes on a magic item huh? Can you post a screenshot of this? You can get 40 mf on a magic ring, or you can get 15 mf and mana leech, but not 40 mf and mana leech.

Akukami

08-05-2006, 18:27

Well, Andrew, you're in the right place to learn. :wink3:

Couple of points:

1) Forget about the martels, the strength requirements are murder. Hell mode is a hard place, you need life, you need to think defensive. Sure martels have their uses but that's for experienced players, no offense. Bonesnap, unique maul, goes toe-to-toe with the most godly of martels for PvM. Read up on the Crushing Blow mod.

2) Angelics I can understand, sorta, but sigs? It's crap, you dont need it, don't use it. Use stuff with life/resists/MF/defense. Rares, uniques, even magic with good mods. Max those resists.

3) You're a melee class, your damage depends on weapon, +skills do little for you. Use 3 Perfect Topaz helm over even perfect Tarn (some might disagree with me here though).

1. The Str Req is definitely a burden, however, 170 Str is still a good base to have just in case he does find a nice 200+ damage Mart. Also, my past experience with using Bonesnap to MF has been the following: unless you have really high Str (250+), forget about using it. The Crushing Blow mod is useful in killing bosses, but it's low damage hurts when killing in places such as Hell Trav when disposing the Council ASAP before they get you is essential. For now though, sticking with 170 Str and using Bonesnap while searching for a killer Mart is a good idea.

2. Sigs can be replaced with better rares and Uniques, but for someone starting up an MF Barb, it's probably the best way to go. Here's the gear I used when I started out:

Helmet: Sigon's Visor
Weapon: Bonesnap
Armor: Angelic Mantle
Gloves: Sigon's Gage
Boots: Sigon's Sabot
Belt: Goldwrap
Rings: Angelic Halo AND Manald Heal
Amulet: Angelic Wings

With this setup, you have 50 MF and +1 to Skills from Anglics, 50 MF from Sigs, and 30 MF with some Gold Find from GWrap. With 8 points into Natural Resist, you also get high FR, which is essential for MFing almost any of the popular places such as Andy, Trav, and Meph if you're patient enough.

- Akukami