Speeder or leaper?

[zrk]

Which do you guys think is a better overall dueler, a speeder or leaper? Is the speeders high speed better to catch sorcs or is the leapers stun better for catching them?

[fledgeling]

what is leaper's stun? oO

[fredsta54]

what is leaper's stun? oO

Well, a classic bvc uses maxed leap for manuverability and stun (leap puts opponent into double fhr automatically)

Bvc's still have nice speed though, 30 r/w boots and lvl ~30-40% r/w from inc speed with light gear, so their not slow :P

Also, with the stun, you can put triangle wwing to good effect with 2X naga, although a lot of the time an anc axe will be more effective






Fred

[zrk]

So you think its better to make a leaper.. but would it work good with a lance? Logically thinking it should because of range 5 and big damage. Or are the sorcs able to tele away because of less hits with the lance than with 2x nagas and therefore less often being stunned into fhr?

[fledgeling]

do you need to hit them in order to put them in the fhr animation?

[Sjafi]

do you need to hit them in order to put them in the fhr animation?

He's talking about the knockback radius with leap. Maxed, the knockback radius is something around the side of a screen I think. I have never seen this actually work well in pvp so I'm skeptical...I'd rather have more nats and increased speed as a speeder for bva. With max ww/bo/leap/mastery, after all pre reqs, you have just lvl 1 IS/nats at 79. I don't really go past 85 on my chars, so i'd have 6 points to spend for nats/IS.

[Zodijackyl]

Also, with the stun, you can put triangle wwing to good effect with 2X naga, although a lot of the time an anc axe will be more effective

What the hell is the "triangle wwing" you always talk about... It seems like a useless tactic to me because anything that would tank three whirlwinds from me would be either a bo'd hdin running away or a bvb, which whirlwinds at me also.

[Tetsume]

What the hell is the "triangle wwing" you always talk about... It seems like a useless tactic to me because anything that would tank three whirlwinds from me would be either a bo'd hdin running away or a bvb, which whirlwinds at me also.


Xpac barbs do it in duels, they leap to stun, then telepop and do a triangle ww. Triangle ww is merely, you guessed it, forming a triangle with 3 quick ww's. If you need a reference, check out Smash's barb in the PvP forum. Since I'm a nice guy, and Steve has no idea what PvP is, I'll provide a link to a video of Smash in action, where he more or less does a triangle ww. http://media.putfile.com/smash_vs_gargoyle_4/640

[HardkoreHarry]

What the hell is the "triangle wwing" you always talk about... It seems like a useless tactic to me because anything that would tank three whirlwinds from me would be either a bo'd hdin running away or a bvb, which whirlwinds at me also.


And this is the guy that supposedly has an undefeated bvb and a fb sorc that is like 97-1? HAHAHA. No wonder no one has ever seen this guy in dueling games before. Even his own clanmate (ghostrider) makes excuses for him in game. Whenever anyone challenges ghostrider to a 2v2 with him and zodi, ghostrider makes up excuses about zodi having like 200 ping and stuff, even after he has posted here that he has about 20 ping usually.

[Pcon]

i think what zod was saying is y do you have to triangle wirl if u kill them in 1 ww


that said leap still owns in war

[tdlofcc]

Xpac barbs do it in duels, they leap to stun, then telepop and do a triangle ww. Triangle ww is merely, you guessed it, forming a triangle with 3 quick ww's. If you need a reference, check out Smash's barb in the PvP forum. Since I'm a nice guy, and Steve has no idea what PvP is, I'll provide a link to a video of Smash in action, where he more or less does a triangle ww. http://media.putfile.com/smash_vs_gargoyle_4/640

Sigh .. not to start a flame or anything .. but .. a barb .. teleporting .. wtf :P

Barbs are supposed to run and kill .. not use magic ;)

Besides this, I've also never seen ppl leap in BvB duels.

[zrk]

Does anyone else here other than fred have actual experience with a leaper? Because so far i really have only seen him make a decent answer to my question.

[WarlockCC]

Does anyone else here other than fred have actual experience with a leaper? Because so far i really have only seen him make a decent answer to my question.
I have never used a leap like that. I only used it in pvp when fighting necro's to either jump over a bonewall or leap attack the necro when I have IM on me.

From the looks of it, it's a good skill.
20 leap + 20 leap attack, no prereq skills.
Mana cost: 9
Attack Rating: +335%
Damage: +870%
Knockback radius: 28 Yards
[Synergy] Leap: +200% Damage (10% / Lvl)

Add to that a bit of mastery :
Attack Rating: +180%
Damage: +123%
Chance for critical strike: +21%

That's over 1000% added damage with Battle Command.
So, 11 times your weapon of choice's damage, divided by 10 for PvP.

Seems to me like the damage is still low though, since you are not making series of hits like with WW, but doing single hits every 2 seconds if you are fast. And how far do you have to leap for it to be a leap attack ? I vaguely recall little bunny hops don't do the trick, but that could just be my over-active imagination. I have that a lot. Right now I'm imagining myself posting on a forum about a game which is from the previous millenium.

I digress.
Personally, I don't think I would make a dedicated leaper, even though the damage potential is very nice if you factor in the extra damage you will get from your barb's str.

[imakeigloospat]

Leap effect (lod tho but still the same)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=diablo+smash

[Noite Escura]

I actually had the idea of making a BvC barb using leap(in the process of maxing Leap) but I screwed over by chosing Mace Mastery. Will rebuild as soon as I find Nagas/Anc Axe, but I'm a little away from D2 now.
Also, I don't think Leap Attack would be of any utility on a duel. It's easily dodgeable

[Sjafi]

Leap effect (lod tho but still the same)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=diablo+smash

Leaper won't be as effective in cd2 since you can't teleport. I'd like to see it in action, if you have enough time to catch someone with a ww when you leap around a screen/half screen away.

[HardkoreHarry]

long post


I think you are more than a little confused here. A leaper doesnt use leap attack, he uses leap. Leap puts the oppenent in double hit recovery, and the radius increases with higher levels of leap. Also, damage gets divided by 6 in pvp, not 10.



Sigh .. not to start a flame or anything .. but .. a barb .. teleporting .. wtf :P

Barbs are supposed to run and kill .. not use magic ;)

Besides this, I've also never seen ppl leap in BvB duels.


Yes, in LOD barbs can teleport, but that really has nothing to do with triangle wwing being effective or not. It is still very effective in classic. On a side note, barbs gaining the ability to teleport enables them to beat sorcs, hammerdins, and foh pallys, among others. Face it, in classic, all three of these chars can move faster than the barb and can attack from a distance. What this means is that a barb should never be able to beat a well played sorc, hammerdin, or foh in classic in a 1v1 duel. And before you dueling experts start saying how your #1 bv(insert char here) on (insert server here) beats these chars all the time let me just say that you are winning the duel because the other char is making mistakes; barbs shouldn't ever win these duels, the other characters shouldn't ever get that close to you.

Why on earth would anyone try to strategically use leap in a bvb duel? I don't think you get how leap can be useful.

With that being said, as for as classic is concerned, leap is most useful in team duels/wars, because the barb that is doing the leaping cannot get to the oppenent in time to attack him before he recovers, but a party member can.

As for the original question, it depends on how you plan on dueling. For team duels and wars, I would suggest a leaper. For 1v1 duels, nothing will help you catch a good sorc, but more speed can't hurt.

[Kiwi Legend]

Sorcies can get taken down by a good speeder with deeply stacked res due to WW lock and the ability to tank countless blizz or orb. FOH and DINS and BONE NECS should never loose

[HardkoreHarry]

Yes, barbs can sometimes get lucky with a whirlwind click and subsequent desynching. However, most experienced sorcs will be able to stay far enough away while laying blizz/orbs/fb/etc. to whittle the barb down. With 4k life and a blizz doing 30 dmg, it may take a while, but it can certainly be done. If a sorc doesn't want to play around with a ww click, they can simply teleport a few screens away to break the lock and come right back firing.

[WarlockCC]

I think you are more than a little confused here. A leaper doesnt use leap attack, he uses leap. Leap puts the oppenent in double hit recovery, and the radius increases with higher levels of leap. Also, damage gets divided by 6 in pvp, not 10.

I think you are more then a little confused here, please read what I typed in my post and try to understand it.
I re-itterate :

I have never used a leap like that. I only used it in pvp when fighting necro's to either jump over a bonewall or leap attack the necro when I have IM on me.

I will attempt to translate the above to simpler words and easier sentances :
I have not used leap like that.
I have used leap to jump over bonewalls.
I have used leap attack to attack a necro, because I had Iron Maiden(the necro curse which returns damage to the attacker) cast on me.

We are not here to say other people are lying or are 'more then a little confused'. We are here to discuss things in a civilized manner. So kindly take any form of hostility you have towards people into the dueling games as they are not welcome here, being a waste of time to read. I thank you for letting it rest here and now.

Yes, in LOD barbs can teleport, but that really has nothing to do with triangle wwing being effective or not. It is still very effective in classic. On a side note, barbs gaining the ability to teleport enables them to beat sorcs, hammerdins, and foh pallys, among others. Face it, in classic, all three of these chars can move faster than the barb and can attack from a distance. What this means is that a barb should never be able to beat a well played sorc, hammerdin, or foh in classic in a 1v1 duel. And before you dueling experts start saying how your #1 bv(insert char here) on (insert server here) beats these chars all the time let me just say that you are winning the duel because the other char is making mistakes; barbs shouldn't ever win these duels, the other characters shouldn't ever get that close to you.

In LoD any char can teleport thanks to Enigma(there might be other ways for them to get teleport, I just know of this one runeword).
TDL is saying that at the root of the barbarian, lies a warrior, not a magic user. In fact, anybody who has played AD&D will know that barbs get XP for breaking magic items(they have a bit of an aversion against magic users).
Another hint in there is that Barbs can use summon horde to overthrow (as in push over) a wizards tower. In AD&D, barbarians can't even 'work' with a magic user until they are level 3 and at that level, they merely tolerate the magic user. At level 6 they might even talk to the magic user.
That was what TDL was referring to. Not the options available in the game.

If 'essence of barb' was a potion you could drink it would not make you a caster, but a fighter.

Why on earth would anyone try to strategically use leap in a bvb duel? I don't think you get how leap can be useful.

With that being said, as for as classic is concerned, leap is most useful in team duels/wars, because the barb that is doing the leaping cannot get to the oppenent in time to attack him before he recovers, but a party member can.

As for the original question, it depends on how you plan on dueling. For team duels and wars, I would suggest a leaper. For 1v1 duels, nothing will help you catch a good sorc, but more speed can't hurt.
I think we can all see the potential and actually understood more then you are willing to give us credit for.
A team of 3 barbs, of which 2 are leapers, could have a great time against quite a few other teams. The two leapers could keep 'stunning'(I don't know if that word really covers the effect) while the third goes around WW'ing the stunned people. I'd say that is worth a spin. Plus, I think it kinda knocks people out of their liniar thinking, since this can take one's character by surprise. It's a fun addition to team duels I think.

What other skills would you suggest on such a leaper though ?
Perhaps a BO specialist aswell ?
I'm considering making such a char even though I don't have many team duels to go to. It might be handy or at the very least amusing in CS aswell. :)

[HardkoreHarry]

I think you are more then a little confused here, please read what I typed in my post and try to understand it.

My comment about your confusion was based on your ramblings about leap attack. Your entire post was talking about using leap attack in duels. A leaper does not use leap attack at all. This is what you are apparently still confused about. "I don't think I would make a dedicated leaper, even though the damage potential is very nice if you factor in the extra damage you will get from your barb's str." Since leap doesn't deal anything damage at all, you definately are confused about something.


We are not here to say other people are lying or are 'more then a little confused'. We are here to discuss things in a civilized manner. So kindly take any form of hostility you have towards people into the dueling games as they are not welcome here, being a waste of time to read. I thank you for letting it rest here and now.

Again with this hostility stuff. I really don't know where you get this from. Your post had nothing to do with the thread, thats the truth, not repressed hostility towards others. You were talking about leap attack while the thread was (atleast partially) about leap.


In LoD any char can teleport thanks to Enigma(there might be other ways for them to get teleport, I just know of this one runeword).
TDL is saying that at the root of the barbarian, lies a warrior, not a magic user. In fact, anybody who has played AD&D will know that barbs get XP for breaking magic items(they have a bit of an aversion against magic users).
Another hint in there is that Barbs can use summon horde to overthrow (as in push over) a wizards tower. In AD&D, barbarians can't even 'work' with a magic user until they are level 3 and at that level, they merely tolerate the magic user. At level 6 they might even talk to the magic user.
That was what TDL was referring to. Not the options available in the game.

This is a diablo2 forum, as far as I know. I don't see the point in comparing one character from one game to a different character from a completely different game, in the middle of a "should I make a speeder or a leaper" thread, I fail to see the relevance. So barbs arent "magic users"? If that statement applied to diablo2 then barbs wouldn't be able to use magic at all, and since they can, your opinions must differ from those who actually made the game.

If 'essence of barb' was a potion you could drink it would not make you a caster, but a fighter.

In diablo2, characters are not divided into two distinct categories, casters and fighters, as much as you may wish them to be. All chars can cast as well as swing weapons.


I think we can all see the potential and actually understood more then you are willing to give us credit for.

Then why as the thread made? Apparently someone wasn't so clear on this, and that is who my statements were addressed towards. If in your limited experience of the game you have realized this already, then feel free to skip that portion of my post.


What other skills would you suggest on such a leaper though ?
Perhaps a BO specialist aswell ?
I'm considering making such a char even though I don't have many team duels to go to. It might be handy or at the very least amusing in CS aswell. :)

Other skills are mastery, bo, leap, natural resist, inc speed, berserk (optional), bc, etc to fit your needs. Excessive leaping in cs runs is more annoying to the pally then helpful. IMO, a bo specialist is a useless character.

[WarlockCC]

My comment about your confusion was based on your ramblings about leap attack. Your entire post was talking about using leap attack in duels. A leaper does not use leap attack at all. This is what you are apparently still confused about. "I don't think I would make a dedicated leaper, even though the damage potential is very nice if you factor in the extra damage you will get from your barb's str." Since leap doesn't deal anything damage at all, you definately are confused about something.

Again with this hostility stuff. I really don't know where you get this from. Your post had nothing to do with the thread, thats the truth, not repressed hostility towards others. You were talking about leap attack while the thread was (atleast partially) about leap.


This is a diablo2 forum, as far as I know. I don't see the point in comparing one character from one game to a different character from a completely different game, in the middle of a "should I make a speeder or a leaper" thread, I fail to see the relevance. So barbs arent "magic users"? If that statement applied to diablo2 then barbs wouldn't be able to use magic at all, and since they can, your opinions must differ from those who actually made the game.

In diablo2, characters are not divided into two distinct categories, casters and fighters, as much as you may wish them to be. All chars can cast as well as swing weapons.


Then why as the thread made? Apparently someone wasn't so clear on this, and that is who my statements were addressed towards. If in your limited experience of the game you have realized this already, then feel free to skip that portion of my post.



Other skills are mastery, bo, leap, natural resist, inc speed, berserk (optional), bc, etc to fit your needs. Excessive leaping in cs runs is more annoying to the pally then helpful. IMO, a bo specialist is a useless character.
Sigh. I can only guess that you are either unpleasant as a person or just very misunderstood(perhaps I am the only one doing the misunderstanding, though the below examples speak for themselves). I don't know much about the whole history here with WhiteLightning, but is it something that was agreed upon between you and him ? To try and put forth as much derogatory comments and abuse to the other forum members ? Is there any way you can type things in a way that they do not seem like a personal attack, but more a addition ? Give it a positive twist, constructive critisism, that sort of thing. That would really help the forum more then comments like "your confusion", "your ramblings" or "you definately are confused about something".
You look for ways to prove people wrong rather then help them. To that end you will take anything out of context and try to undermine that in the hope of discrediting the person's complete post. You are trying to argue on the internet, which, I have read as text on a image, is like running in the special olympics...

You should just ... let the anger go ... relax ... meditate ... zen.
The world is your (blue ;) ) oyster, not your enemy.

[Avenger]

Not to instigate or anything but, Warlock, from the linear aspect of message boards, it does appear that you started the whole personal attack thing.

You gave semi-false/irrelevant information, he corrected it, and you jumped down his throat for it.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[Dacar92]

Thank you, Avenger for pointing out your opinion.

This thread is closed until I can read it again, thoroughly. I am tired, guys. Tired of the arguments on this forum. I have a short temper lately. If you value your accounts here you will stop the immature rantings and disagree like adults. There are a couple of people on very short strings at this time.