View Full Version : 2 unique items in the same game - test results
I often meet the naysayers like in this thread (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=439883), so my patience was gone and I have done a test that required a little modding.
Basically I made a mod for this testing purpose, where all armor TC3 items except cap were moved to higher TC, Biggin's Bonet lvl was lowered to 1 and quill drop in normal was changed to allways drop armo3 with 100% chance for unique.
I killed 2 quill rats:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/Hrus/quill1.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/Hrus/quill2.jpg
I changed the number of drops from quill rat from 1 to 3, start a new game, killed 1 quill rat:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/Hrus/quill3.jpg
I changed the odds for gambling unique item to 100%, start a new game, went to Gheed, roll his gamble screen until I saw a cap (I didn't even buy it), killed 2 quill rats:
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e336/Hrus/quill4.jpg
They dropped no unique at all.
Conclusion: You can't get the same unique item in the same game twice. (Nothing new here, I just proved it)
:thumbsup: I really like the way you investigate things, keep up the good work!
You need to merge all these up into one thread (or eventually merge them, in the event that you plan on performing more tests). :thumbsup:
This means MFing should never be done directly after a gambling session....
krischan
30-04-2006, 14:22
Another question finally answered. Good job :thumbsup: Now I can stop checking Meph's drops for failed uniques of the same type :azn:
I've had this happen twice when doing Baal runs, with The Gavel of Pain and Rockfleece. In normal gameplay it can't happen, but if something goes wrong on the serverside of D2 (even in SP it's loaded and works) it can, with a minute chance as always.
Can two uniques of the same base item type (e.g. Lightsabre and Azurewrath) drop together? I assume the answer is yes, but that never happened to me before.
Can two uniques of the same base item type (e.g. Lightsabre and Azurewrath) drop together? I assume the answer is yes, but that never happened to me before.
It would be possible yes, because the other unique would not be flagged as 'spawned already'.
another quesion answered. ty :thumbsup:
Fluffballer
01-05-2006, 11:54
The gambling bit is crucial. If you gamble a stash worth of coronets for 2 hours, you might very well look at several uniques in the gambling screen. Yikes! Nice info.
Potentially this result also says that you should gamble once each game, because you may get failed uniques when you gamble more than once in the same game. Create a game, gamble, exit, create a new game, ... I'm sure that'll get you banned in no time:)
Potentially this result also says that you should gamble once each game, because you may get failed uniques when you gamble more than once in the same game. Create a game, gamble, exit, create a new game, ... I'm sure that'll get you banned in no time:)
Nope, this result says you should gamble for the same item all the time, and don't exit the gambling screen without gambling for all items of that base item.
It also says that you could screw up someones MF run by refreshing the gambling screen a lot in their game :evil:
How interesting... OK, so no gambling for me while I MF.
Very, very interesting findings!!!
Here's one i'd be interested in knowing... Is it true that Meteor, if used in an 8p baal game, reduces everyone else's experience? I was using my Meteorb sorc last night and people were yelling at me because I was "stealing their XP' and usually they "get 2 million points but with meteor the only get 1 million" per Baal run.
Can that be confirmed and if so, why? Why is Meteor any different than B. Hammer or Blizz for spamming the the throne room?
Another thing you may want to test: If you exit the game, and you were the only person on it, would the "unique restriction" be reset or would it continue? I think the only useful application of this would be when I run meph with a pure blizz sorc and a Lightsabre drops, then I should try to get my mass killing char (straffer zon or summoner) to keep mfing in the same game until a unique Phase Blade drops and then you would be sure it is a Azurewrath.
thegiantturtle
01-05-2006, 17:31
Is it true that Meteor, if used in an 8p baal game, reduces everyone else's experience? I was using my Meteorb sorc last night and people were yelling at me because I was "stealing their XP' and usually they "get 2 million points but with meteor the only get 1 million" per Baal run.
Can that be confirmed and if so, why? Why is Meteor any different than B. Hammer or Blizz for spamming the the throne room?There is no bug with Meteor. It's just a rumour.
Another thing you may want to test: If you exit the game, and you were the only person on it, would the "unique restriction" be reset or would it continue?It would continue. The setting is for the game, not for the character
I think the only useful application of this would be when I run meph with a pure blizz sorc and a Lightsabre drops, then I should try to get my mass killing char (straffer zon or summoner) to keep mfing in the same game until a unique Phase Blade drops and then you would be sure it is a Azurewrath.Unless you're trying to collect unid versions of each unique in the game, this isn't useful. The game decides whether it is going to drop Lightsabre or Azurewrath BEFORE checking to see if one of them has already dropped. If it picks Lightsabre, and a Lightsabre has already dropped, you'll just get a rare phaseblade.
The game decides whether it is going to drop Lightsabre or Azurewrath BEFORE checking to see if one of them has already dropped. If it picks Lightsabre, and a Lightsabre has already dropped, you'll just get a rare phaseblade.
Triple durability rare phase ^^
I noticed once I found several rares of the same kind, with no durability and no unique version (pilum or something). They did not have the same sell value when unid. New way of determining failed uniques?
djmilhaus
03-05-2006, 03:16
Triple durability rare phase ^^
No, just rare phase blade... they have no durability! Sorry, couldn't resist.
Now, what if you reverse the process of rolling a hidden unique on the gambling screen and then having a monster roll the same unique...
Say a monster drops a unique item. Is it theoretically possible to have that unique item fail (triple durability) in the gamble screen?
Stompwampa
03-05-2006, 06:21
thanks Hrus for all the testing...
i give it three days before someone tries to disprove your conclusion ;-)
how long did it take with your Andy drop thread? a day or two? :wink3:
thanks again though, it's interesting stuff.
TheJarulf
03-05-2006, 14:42
Conclusion: You can't get the same unique item in the same game twice. (Nothing new here, I just proved it)
Well, I agree with you completely and have always been in the camp of "you can't get it more than once". However, you have not really proved it, you have just shown that for your situation and occations, you did not get the same unique twice, you have not shown that there are no situation in which you can get it twice. Quite a difference. By the way, the way I have usually tested this has been simply playing and using a debugger forcing the item type and quality in the memory after death but before item generation, got same result as you. End effect is the same. In adddition, you also get the same objections from people. Finally one can look at the code and see where it checks for previous uniques and this is in my opinion the best way. However, still don't convince people.
So what are the objections people raise? Well, from memory, it is about lag and delays (and indirect possible thread issues) of which I think you had none, right? That on bnet realms it is different, your method was for open and for situations of not the same monster, problems with how the table of allready droped get cleared or not checked properly of which you can harldy ever prove by testing anyway.
So although you showed that even from same monster, you normally get a failed unqiue, most of the objections people have are still "valid". As I said though, I agree with your conclusion completely :)
Unless you're trying to collect unid versions of each unique in the game, this isn't useful. The game decides whether it is going to drop Lightsabre or Azurewrath BEFORE checking to see if one of them has already dropped. If it picks Lightsabre, and a Lightsabre has already dropped, you'll just get a rare phaseblade.
Really, I always understood it as the other way. The game selects Unique PB, checks what options are available (based on actual items and the already dropped list) and drops one of what's left or a triple durability rare.
I even play with this assumption, If I see a nagle or Manald in NM I pay Andy a visit before I exit the game.
@Hrus: any interest in testing further? Leaving only the cloaks in armo3 and looking for a triple rare before seeing both cloaks would be a good test case.
Hakai_no_Tenshi
04-05-2006, 01:26
I even play with this assumption, If I see a nagle or Manald in NM I pay Andy a visit before I exit the game.
Hmm, that's a good idea ...
--T
Unless you're trying to collect unid versions of each unique in the game, this isn't useful. The game decides whether it is going to drop Lightsabre or Azurewrath BEFORE checking to see if one of them has already dropped. If it picks Lightsabre, and a Lightsabre has already dropped, you'll just get a rare phaseblade.
ouch.
BUT, what if you already had azurewrath drop and you are looking for ls? asuming you are killing monsters that are too low lvl to drop azurewrath, shouldn't "failed" aw become ls? or would you get another rare phase blade?
The game decides whether it is going to drop Lightsabre or Azurewrath BEFORE checking to see if one of them has already dropped. If it picks Lightsabre, and a Lightsabre has already dropped, you'll just get a rare phaseblade.
Really, I always understood it as the other way. The game selects Unique PB, checks what options are available (based on actual items and the already dropped list) and drops one of what's left or a triple durability rare.
hm? could anyone test this to see what is correct?
Really, I always understood it as the other way. The game selects Unique PB, checks what options are available (based on actual items and the already dropped list) and drops one of what's left or a triple durability rare.
I even play with this assumption, If I see a nagle or Manald in NM I pay Andy a visit before I exit the game.
You may do that, but the odds of getting that SoJ don't improve when a Nagel/Manald drops. The odds of a unique ring being SoJ does improve, but at the same time that chance to be unique drops so the total odds remain the same.
When picking a unique to spawn, the uniques that already dropped can still get on the list.
Not to mention Dwarf Star to deal with...
TheJarulf
04-05-2006, 09:34
hm? could anyone test this to see what is correct?
As RTB mentioned, what thegiantturtle said is correct. Back in pre expansion, it was the other way arround (plus it droped in other though).
VisMaior
04-05-2006, 13:04
Now, what if you reverse the process of rolling a hidden unique on the gambling screen and then having a monster roll the same unique...
Say a monster drops a unique item. Is it theoretically possible to have that unique item fail (triple durability) in the gamble screen?
We really need to get this tested.
TheJarulf
04-05-2006, 15:00
We really need to get this tested.
Considering there is only one global item creation routine and thus all items goes thorugh it, it wno't matter if an item comes from a monster or a shop (including gamble). I am also note aware of any code that scraps failed items for the gamble shop so yes, it should be perfectly possible I would say.
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