Maxing berzerk on a concer

[inkanddagger]

As a pvp concer, once you get to around 30k defense everything in excess is pretty much in diminishing returns correct?

Bash looks like a crappy synergy, only adding 100% physical dmg to base.

But berzerk adds 20% magic damage, apparently converted out of the physical damage. Say you do 10k max conc, then you can hit 2k magic damage or 4k magic damage with a critical hit. Doesn't it make more sense to go for unresistable damage? Has anyone tried this, or is everyone stuck on maxing iron skin?

[ael]

Afaik CS, CB, DS can only trigger on physical attacks. Imo Conc is superior to berserk in PvP, as it gives a large AR bonus. Why are you making a Conc PvPer anyways? You have no use for a Shield in PvP, but you cant use 2 weapons because with Conc you can only use 1. If you are bored with WWs(as they are the most used/possibly the best PvP barbs), better make a frenzy PvPer, its much more effective in PvP than a Conc.

[inkanddagger]

iirc, critical strike works on berzerk itself, and since the %magic on conc is a conversion shouldnt it depend on the actual damage, including critical?

[Omikron8]

yes the game first checks your DS/CS to calculate your physical damage

this total is then converted to magical and then applied to the monster, after applicable immunities/resistances

and CB is seperate from physical damage, even though PI will negate it

[inkanddagger]

Well then let's compare the two synergies.

Bash adds 100% physical damage to conc, berzerk converts 20% physical damage to magic damage.

A top end conc barb is going to have in the neighborhood of 8000 damage (assuming fort build). That's 1600 magic damage top end, 3200 with a critical strike. Magical damage is unresistable (assuming people in melee don't focus on it and rather focus on physical damage reduction). Physical damage is reducable by 50%. Say maxing bash adds 100% damage to base, thats going to get close to 1k extra physical damage right? Looks like maxing bash isn't so smart.

Can anyone maybe put down the damage with pvp penalties?

[inkanddagger]

I made one on single player just to see:

max conc 8963 damage

max conc with max bash - 9604 damage

20% magic damage is about 1800 converted

[Omikron8]

you are probably just better off pumping iron skin after mastery/conc/bo/shout are maxed

assuming this is pvp melee

[Halciet]

you are probably just better off pumping iron skin after mastery/conc/bo/shout are maxed

assuming this is pvp melee


Yep.

-Hal

[inkanddagger]

okay, i get 35k defense with 1 point into iron skin and max berzerk, or i lose all of that unresistable damage to get myself to 43k defense.

is 8k defense worth the damage, and thus the faster kill speed, loss?

[Halciet]

After the pvp penalities, that damage is going to be negligible. That's not even taking into account if they have any MDR from something like String of Ears or such of that nature.

-Hal

[MrGoth]

Negligible? Any damage that gets threw %pdr is good damage imo.

I would have to ask what the rest of your setup is, and findout what your defense is, before suggesting iron skin.


Bash vrs zerk;

Remember, you most likely already maxed shout - one of the synergies to berserk. Maxing berserk would make you a half / half hybrid on the dot skillwise. {assuming you maxed bo as conc's other synergy}.

Berserk also has its uses in a duel, more so than bash will. That and it has way more %ar. I would suggest going like a hybrid just to have a little extra punch in your bag, even if it means you have less defense. Whatelse are you gona do vrs a smiter whos dumb enough to run up to you?

[inkanddagger]

Negligible? Any damage that gets threw %pdr is good damage imo.

I would have to ask what the rest of your setup is, and findout what your defense is, before suggesting iron skin.


Bash vrs zerk;

Remember, you most likely already maxed shout - one of the synergies to berserk. Maxing berserk would make you a half / half hybrid on the dot skillwise. {assuming you maxed bo as conc's other synergy}.

Berserk also has its uses in a duel, more so than bash will. That and it has way more %ar. I would suggest going like a hybrid just to have a little extra punch in your bag, even if it means you have less defense. Whatelse are you gona do vrs a smiter whos dumb enough to run up to you?



This was my thought as well. I mean, I haven't sat down and calculated typical attack ratings vs 35k or 42k defense to see the chance to hit difference, but it seems as if it won't be that much, and the magical damage added to the attack would end the duel faster.

The top conc barb on USEast, until he dismantled, was XH - and he was a max bash, single point iron skin setup.

[morotsjos]

After the pvp penalities, that damage is going to be negligible. That's not even taking into account if they have any MDR from something like String of Ears or such of that nature.

-Hal
negligible? does it work like ink assumes, i.e. that 20% added magical damage =1800 added max dmg? does deadly/critical strike work with this damage?
to me a weak increase in def/physical damage seems far more negligible than a potential 3600 added magical damage...

[inkanddagger]

I tested this on open with a funky setup - i left shout at 1 point, and iron skin at one point, maxed all synergies of concentrate.

I had approx 19k ar, 11k concentrate, 27k defense, 6700 life.

my friend used his typical gvalor max iron skin and max shout barb, and my barb was winning more than losing. Almost all gear was identical, save he was using a gvalor setup to acheive 125% ias with steelrends.

so I figured, why not max shout and still keep the magical damage advantage? I don't think it has been built or tested in any of the larger melee circles on the realms.


edit: the magic damage is converted out of your physical damage, so the more physical you do, the more magical you do. It definately benefits from ds/critical.

[morotsjos]

I tested this on open with a funky setup - i left shout at 1 point, and iron skin at one point, maxed all synergies of concentrate.

I had approx 19k ar, 11k concentrate, 27k defense, 6700 life.

my friend used his typical gvalor max iron skin and max shout barb, and my barb was winning more than losing. Almost all gear was identical, save he was using a gvalor setup to acheive 125% ias with steelrends.

so I figured, why not max shout and still keep the magical damage advantage? I don't think it has been built or tested in any of the larger melee circles on the realms.


edit: the magic damage is converted out of your physical damage, so the more physical you do, the more magical you do. It definately benefits from ds/critical.
are you sure about the last part? cause 600 damage after pvp-penalty is easily worth 20 points. what charms do you use on your barb btw? max/ar/life or something else?

[Halciet]

negligible? does it work like ink assumes, i.e. that 20% added magical damage =1800 added max dmg? does deadly/critical strike work with this damage?
to me a weak increase in def/physical damage seems far more negligible than a potential 3600 added magical damage...

IIRC, it doesn't actually add that amount of damage, it just makes your damage pool go from 100% physical to 80% physical, 20% magical (at least, that was how it was originally invoked; the wording on the arreat summit page has changed, so perhaps the skill was changed as well). It sounds like a great deal on paper, but in practice, during the testing performed a couple of years back when the patch first arrived, it did not have any noticeable boost to your killing speed. This was especially so in BvB, since most other barbs using whirlwind tear you to pieces way before you can get a hit off anyways.

l2aider did extensive melee testing with conc barbs, finally settling on Ironskin as the best investment of the points with the leftovers for melee dueling, as it helped to keep you alive a good deal longer. This was before he finally switched over to whirlwind, of course.

I'm not saying it's not a viable idea to use it, just that based on the testing that has been performed, the ironskin would carry more weight in a BvB scenario. You'd have to do more testing than just against your friend, as that's only testing the mettle of one opponent who may or may not have any real talent; l2aider was one of the top players on the USEast realm, and came to his conclusion after fighting hundreds of opponents over the course of a couple of months.

-Hal

[inkanddagger]

The advent of Fortitude armors and hellfore torches has significantly boosted overall damage done, which significantly boosts the magic conversion.

And This wouldnt be used to duel ww barbs anyway.

[morotsjos]

The advent of Fortitude armors and hellfore torches has significantly boosted overall damage done, which significantly boosts the magic conversion.

And This wouldnt be used to duel ww barbs anyway.
but if damage is only converted instead of added it's not that interesting...

[inkanddagger]

but if damage is only converted instead of added it's not that interesting...


having 20% of your total damage basically unresistable isn't interesting?

[morotsjos]

having 20% of your total damage basically unresistable isn't interesting?
it still only doubles 20% of your damage, so no, not really.

[MrGoth]

Um...boner? Its always nice to cause him some pain before that dumb armor shatters. If its not 100% bvb or vmelee, then I'm still pro-zerk.

Even if its more vmelee than anyone else, I'd say give it a try anyways, you wont know how effective it is vrs everyone untill you try. You could always make what your planning here and then call out all the barbs on your realm for currently accurate tests.