This troubles me

[Lord_Alucard]

First off, MFing with a sorc is plain booooring, nuff said about that.

So...what other then a sorc is a good MFer, some say a barb...I dont like that he takes a wee bit more time then anything else due to weapon switch and go around screaming and the corpses.

Some say a hammerdin...wierd I say, you cant have alot of MFgear due to the fact that you need to be able to kill rather quickly, plus, an Enigma is rather expensive

Some would say a Necromance Summoner, now we're getting somewhere, use an insane +skill build to raise your army then switch to MF/boost gear, works rather well I heard...problem is to get all the boost gear and summoning gear

As for the all around Assassin, I don't know, traps for MFing? No realy physical dmg to count on when facing Lightning imunes, think I will skip this one.

Druid....lets not go there

And that kinda leaves the amazon, I have heard so much about the MFing amazon that the time has come to build one meself. And this is where the trouble starts, what to wear?!?!

Skills is depending on what bow/runeword I use, If I use Faith, then i shoudl go with Multishot, Using Windforce I use Strafe, If I use Ice, I go with Strafe.
As for all the other gear...Sure, a Fortitude covering the 2 fairly large...areas namned chest and stomace :rolleyes: is always neat, not that überexpensive either, as for the rest of the gear, how much gear can I nerf in order to gain alot of Magic Find?

I have tried to find a decent guide to a MFing Amazon and the best I could come up with was the pitstrafer, I intend to use this amazon to run areas that my sorceress can't, all the lvl 85 areas and such.

What I need help with is...well...alot I think. First off:
#What bow/runeword kills at best speed, If we calculate I dont need max speed to hit the last frame, and we use Fortitude. The bows I intend to use is Windforce, Faith or Ice

#What gear setup would be ideal to gain as much Magic Find as possible but still be able to kill really fast?

#Depending on the bow we use a different skillsetup, that one I can handle myself I think =)

As you see I would really like some help from the once that has played an amazon long enough to be able to say "Stop that, that is wrong...do like this instead"

Thanks in advance.

[emar]

Bow: I'd go with Faith over WF, and only use ICE if you plan to use FA. Though if you did pop on WF you could IST it. Lol...

Anyway, working MF onto a Zon will be difficult if you want continued damage and speed.

Armor options: Fort (like you said), Skullder's (You would need to compensate for lack of damage with Might/Conc merc), CoH (25 MF, 8LL, 65 resists), Jeweller's xxx armor of the Whale/Stability (60/60, 160/60)

Helm options: Artisan's Tiara of Luck (107 MF 3xPTopaz, 110 MF 3xIst), Kira's (you have no resists), 120/45 Tiara of something (Nirvana, Whale, Luck, Speed), 50 MF StealSkull (for Leech)

Ammy: Cat's eye, Highlord's (IAS), even Mara's if the rest of the gear can make up for it.

Boots: 50 MF Travs

Gloves: LoH (good for lvl 85 areas), or some Hitpower KB/IAS gloves if you prefer, or Chancies (I wouldn't pick these)

Belt: Razortail (if multi), Up'd Goldwrap (if you want MF)

Rings: Raven, Dual leech/res/ MF, Nagel, Fortuitous ring of Fortune (40 MF)

Charm: 40 MF Gheed's

You could always go hybrid and whip out Titans (or something) and 4 Ist'd shield for a few Fury's to kill a group. That would pop 100 MF more onto the setup.

I don't see zons hitting the same kind of MF that other characters can run as their weapon slot is taken up by the bow and their gear must be devoted, at least partly to damage. I understand some of the listed stuff is very expensive, but to maintain Damage, resistances, some IAS and MF will require a lot of tweaking and probably some investment. I would also recommend a Might merc possibly wielding Pride to compensate for some of the more MF, less damage choices in the build. I forsee this getting ~250+ MF with charms, if you are lucky.

You'd have to work out a balance that works for with respect to damage, resistances, IAS, FRW, leech, MF and so forth.

I would work it something like this:
Faith GMB
CoH or a good Fort
120/45 of Nirvana/or Luck
Cat's eye (probably)
Raven
Dual Leech/Res (10 ares)/ MF (15)
Trav's
LoH
Razortail
40 Gheed's
15+/20 Torch
15+/20/xx Anni
9x 7MF/9+ single resist sc

Rest of charms? I would put xx/15+ life scs, or xx/xx/15+ life scs, or 15+ life scs. Damage/AR/Life charms would provide a nice boost. If you are concerned with MF and feel the Damage/Life is sufficient, MF scs are pretty.

IAS: 45 + 20 + 20 = 85 (depends on roll on Faith you may need more or less, depending on FPA you want)

Resists: 65 + 10 + 20 + 20 + 30 (scrolls) = 45 all in Hell (+ those single res)

alternative resists: 30 + 10 + 20 + 20 + 30 = 10 ares Hell (you would need to compensate with resist charms, but it is doable)

FRW: 30 + 25 = 55 :(

MF: 25 + 15 + 50 + 40 + 63 (from 9*7) + 35 (Tiara maybe) = 228

+ Dexterity: 25 + 20 + 15 + 15 (+) + 15 (+) = 90, which is pretty decent

Merc: Might/Pride

As you can see, alot of the MF is coming from the charms. It is my preference to play with some resistances as well, hence the CoH. Other's may play more defensively and not get into the fray as often and thus won't need any resistances. This wouldn't be my final build, just brief pondering the question spurred. Tweak, tweak, tweak, eventually you'll get something to work for you.

[Lord_Alucard]

As you said, this would require alot...and I mean ALOT of tweaking with items and charms, but since i like to tweak (gives me a challenge) I dont see that as a problem, as for resistance, ofcourse they are nice...but if I could create a glasscannon, that could work aswell...

Anyway, thanks for the answer, hopefully you wont be the only one giving their point of view to me =)

Will continue to spawn on possible ideas and such

[jparm3rd]

Lord Alucard:

Interesting that you are experimenting with a MF Amazon--I've been doing the same thing for the past several months now and have come up with the following thoughts I'll share with you concerning this build:

Caveat--you seem to have some great ideas for the bow side--so I'll leave that to you--as you pointed out, the big challenge there is equipment. I'd like to experiment with that later-so maybe we can exchange notes--I'll share what I've found on this side of the tree and you share what you've found on your side of the tree. :thumbsup:

The paths that I see as possible are spear and javazon. IMO, the spear side requires so much equipment to tank that I thought I'd look into the Javazon, which needs less and could carry a shield. Now we need to look at Javazon flavors. Pure Lightning Jav or Lightning Fury/Poison/Plague Jav. I decided in the end (I will later go back and try the other) that a Pure Lightning Jav is more of a hybrid because with just one element (lightning), I'm thinking you'd need to tank some, probably using jab and Charged/Lightning strike as well as the standard Javelin for LF. Upon using it, I've found in Hell that I'm tanking quite frequently as Lightning immues turn up in a lot of places. Again, I see equipment issues because your switch would definitely require a spear, etc. etc. And if your not prepared attribute and skill wise it HURTS. Again, I see the goal as both killing quickly, surviving hell where most of the good items are and wearing as much MF as possible without sacrificing killing speed. Tough order, but doable. So in the end I decided two elements would be better and considered LF/PJ as a possiblity.

Nidlav has a LF/PJ guide posted in this forum and that's pretty much what I used as a template for this build, with a few tweaks as follows:

1. I went strictly with the Javelin as my weapon. Amazon class. No spear, so no skill points in any spear elements. My thinking here was that in order to MF with the most efficiency, I would want most of my killing to be skill based, and with this build LF and PJ do most of my killing, so my zon could theoretically kill effectively nude and with just a cracked javelin, for argument. That way, I could fill equipment slots with MF gear instead. I think this is probably why a sorc and necro are such effective MFers. They use skills to kill. I also found that poison works great until I can get LF running, so no real need for jab, either. The merc tanks fine in Normal and by the time you get to the real tough bosses, you have your Amazon and Decoy.

2. I wanted to be strictly a ranged attacker. This helps me maximize my killing because I don't have to worry about melee issues at all. Yes, I need to concern myself with ranged attackers and swarmers, but I never ever want to go toe-to-toe. I also can use swap gear for killing in tough places, yet change to MF gear when I want to MF. This stratgy has worked real well for me, but requires good stash discipline and planning. Only keep things you will use, in other words.

3. My merc becomes incredibly important as an MFer as does my Amazon. I've found it critical, especially in Hell, to have the Amazon at a decent level and always use an ACT 2 Desert Merc. I've been experiementing with two types, the Nightmare Offensive-Might Aura and Normal Defensive Defiance Aura. The primary reason I use these two is because I have the merc carry a polearm class weapon socketed with the Doom runeword. It gives the Holy Freeze aura and a bunch of other goodies. Tough to get the runes, but beg borrow and steal them because it really helps out. If you can't get the Doom runeword, then I will almost always use the Defiance merc, then trade out for the Defensive Holy Freeze merc in Nightmare, so this covers both issues. Its really tough, if I have Doom, choosing between the other mercs. I always go with the Defiant merc until I reach ACT 2 NM, then its decision time. I find the Might Merc to really be better in Hell because leech is nerfed so bad and the aura really helps this build leech back mana and life. Plus the Might aura is huge and helps both the Merc and Zon tank better. Either choice though is perfectly acceptable. I do find having Holy Freeze however you get it very very helpful. Its aura slows down monsters, helps them shatter and even though the aura range is somewhat small at half the screen--your merc and zon are usually ahead of you, so the monsters are usually affected by the aura by the time you're ready to sling javs, so it works well. Plus it keeps them alive longer. The really nice thing is that it solves the swarming issue. The other good thing about this is that your merc can wear MF too.

4. I've found the best skills distribution to be 20 points each in LF, Poison Jav, Plague Jav and Valkyrie. 12 points in Pierce, 6 in Critical Strike, 3 in Dodge and Evade and the rest in prereqs. Works well though Hell WSK.

5. I usually max blocking since I carry a shield and put about 115 in Str so I can wear Valkyrie Wing and put every thing else in Vitality so if I'm hit in Hell, I can survive. My Dex is around 175 and my blocking is currently 73%, so I'll probably dump a few more points in dex if I can't get some of the equip I'm hoping to get doing MF, but for now I'm waiting to see.

6. After a lot of tinkering, this is the typical poor man's MF set up I'm using.

Helm---3 PTopaz Grand Crown (MF 72%)
Weapon---+2 Skills Rare Ceremonial Javelin
Body Armor--4 PTopaz Full Plate Armor (MF 96%)
Shield-- Rhyme Rune Word Socketed in a Grim Shield (MF 25%)
Boots--Rare Boots-- (MF 30%)
Gloves--Rare Gloves--+2 Amazon Skiils & (MF 25%)
Belt--Goldwrap-- (MF 30%)
Rings-- Nagel Ring (MF 19%)
Rings-- Rare (MF 15%)
Amulet -- Rare (MF 20%)
Switch-- Gull Dagger (MF 100%)
2nd Rhyme Rune Word Socketed in a Bone Shield (MF 25%)

Combination of Skill charms, Resist All Charms and MF.

Merc has 4 socket PTopaz Gothic Armor (MF 96%)
3 socket Crown (MF 72%) +168 MF
Malice or Crescent Moon Polearm

Current MF = 505% Switch 605%
+ Merc = 673 MF and on Switch 773%

7. Now the dream set up. Probably an insane one, but hey that's what dreams are for, right?

Helm: Valkyrie Wing socketed with PTopaz or Ist (MF 24-25%)
Weapon: Ethereal Titan's Revenge
Body Armor: Bramble Rune Word (Posion Damage) or Enigma (85% MF
depending on Char Level), possibly Chains of Honor (25% MF)
Shield: Splendor Rune Word (20% MF)
Boots: War Traveler (50% MF)
Gloves: Trang Oul's Claws (Posion Damage) and Chance Guards (40% MF)
Belt: Upgrade Goldwrap (30% MF) and Thundergod's Vigor (+LF skill)
Ring: MF Rings (20% MF) or Bull Kathos Wedding Band (+ Skills)
Ring: Wisp Projector (20% MF, Lightning Absorb, Nice Extra Skills)
Amulet: Mara's Kaleidoscope (+skills, + Resist, +1 Attributes)
Switch: Gull Dagger (MF 100%)
Sanctuary Rune Word Socketed in a Trolls Nest Shield

Combination of Skill charms, Resist All Charms and MF.

Merc has 4 socket PTopaz Full Plate Armor (MF 96%)
3 socket Grand Crown (MF 72%) +168% MF
Doom Rune Word Polearm

Current MF = 300-505% Switch 400-605%
+ Merc = 473-673 MF and on Switch 773%
Most Likely MF will be around 550% and 650% when merc kills

This build is pretty flexible for damage, killing speed and MF. You can swap out different items as needed and the damage can be ramped up to suit the situation.

James.

[fredsta54]

Some would say its better to run with no mf... to be able to do players 8 pits quickly in search of runes, exp, and socketeted/etheral sought after items. This is the better idea IMO






Fred

[Denied]

Hmm.. My Hammerdin was able to pull out 11k hammers with more than 500 MF ( 600 on switch). But if you got bored playing a sorc, you would probably get bored with the Hammerdin pretty fast, but I have alot of fun with mine...
As for the Enigma, Ive seen low ones go for 1 or 2 HR's on USeast. Not sure of the price of one on Europe, but shouldn't be too different.

[Lord_Alucard]

Alot of interesting views,
Fred, this is supposed to be a ladder char, no players 8 here =)

First off...Using poison other then the Assassins Venom is something I've never been to fond of, I really dont like the whole thing abouth killing over time, just like Rabies on the druid, never used and probably never will, I dont trust poison. You say that you use a javelin and wat to be a pure ranged, I really second that. But I find that the "Bow and Crossbow" skills are better for killing then the "Javelin and Spear" skills. I really like physical damage since you can (almost always) count on it, the problem with using a bow/X-Bow is speed, I quote World of Darkness: Vampire the Maquerade " As in everthing, speed kills" and that is very clearly applied to the use bows and crossbows. But speed isn't always a problem. Say I wanna use Fath, I wouldn't need much +IAS to reach a decent breakpoint with multi or strafe.
Another great reason to use bow/crossbow is Knockback, that makes it oh so much easier to be a pure ranged all the way.

As for the merc, as Emar said...a Mightmerc wielding Pride would do wonders to our damage, and he wouldn't do halfbad either, nor would our Valk.
So our merc would looke like this in the dreamgear:
I dont see the reason to give the merc alot of Magic Find since he is the tank

Weapon: Colosual Voulge "Pride"
Armor: Stone or Fortitude (hehe, I wish I was thar rich)
Helm: Andariels VIsage or Crown of Ages

As for the skill to use with our weapon in question (in this case Faith) I don't know if I am to use Strafe or Multishot...Canät really see a reason not to go with Strafe so we just say we use that =)
The skillsetup would kinda look like this then:

Prereq: 4
Strafe: 20
Dodge: 6 or more
Critical Strike:
Pierce: 1 or more (I dont see a reason to pump this one)
Penetrate: 20
Avoid: 6 or more
Evade:6 or more
Valkyrie: 17

This leaves room for an elemental attack aswell, whether its Frozen arrow or a firebased, I dont know.

The gear for such a char would look like this I think (and hope)
Head: "dont know" Harlequin's Crest perhaps, for skill/life/mana/PDR/MF (50)
Neck: Mara's or Highlord's or a rare with +all res and MF and other useful mods
Bow: Grand Matron Bow "Faith"
Armor: Fortitude (for dmg) or Enigma (for MF and other useful mods) (/charlvl)
Boots: War Traveler (as high as possible ofcourse) (50)
Ring#1: Ravenfrost (never build a char without one =) or Rare ring with +all res and MF +other useful mods
Ring#2: Your own pick
Belt: Upped Goldwrap (30)
Gloves: Chanseguards (40)
Switch: no switch

With this gearsetup you would aquire 170+(Enigma, we count lvl to 85)+helmsocket(24)+charms=194+(85)+charms=194+(85) +40%Gheeds+5*7sc=194+(85)+40+35=271+(85) Magic Find and a possible insane killing speed due conc/migh/Fana boost, if we ditch the Enigma for the fortitude we get an even higher damage.

Edit: Note that you can rather easy without losing to much efficiency change the 2 rings for good nagles, adding another ~50-60 MF

So even though this setup is...really expensive, although It dont have to be i think, it would work really well. Your damage would be insane, your speed sufficient, and your merc and valkyrie would be able to tank almost everything long enough for you to make them a porkypine.

Now, evaluation!

[Omikron8]

mf is overrated but 100-200 is helpful

faith
fort
stealskull
war travs
goldwrap
laying of hands
dual ravens
cat's eye/highlords
gheeds charm
any other mf charms you want

that gives you over 100 mf which is plenty for dense areas like pit/wsk/flayer

[jparm3rd]

Lord Alucard:

I understand your concern about poison and I probably won't change your mind, but here's an attempt anyway since you are experimenting. Nothing but respect...ok? I wish you luck on you bow path and think your build looks great. I'll have to try it out.

Poison as you pointed out, works on an average damage per second basis. There was a guide out called the Tao of Poison...if anyone in the forum knows where this guide can be found, I'd really appreciate a link to it or a copy. This guide did the best job of explaining poison (which though written for v1.09 still applies pretty much in v1.11) that I've seen as to how effective poison can be in essentially nullifying a monster's regeneration in Hell and severely weakening a monster if the poison damage per second can get high enough. Its not intended to kill outright--but if the damage is high enough-it can. Whew. ok-with that out of the way, how can one turn Plague Javelin into a killer?

1. Plague Jav synergizes with Poison Jav, so both should have 20 skill points.

2. With a modest amount of plus to skills, say +12, it is fairly easy to get both skills to say Level 32, for argument.

3. At Level 32, Plague Jav does about 38,000 damage over about 15 seconds. (I've rounded this off to keep the math easy)

4. If you equip Bramble, which has +50% to Poison Damage and Trang Ouls Claws +25% to Poison Damge, even without poison facet jewels or anything else, you are adding a straight +75% damage to the above number. So let's do that. 38,000 + 28,500 =66,500 damage over about 15 seconds. The nice thing here is that these items do not extend the damage length per second on the poison.

5. 66,500 / 15 = 4,433 damage per second. Not shabby at all. Now the Plague Javelin skill itself sends up little poison clouds that can deliver this to any monsters that walk through the cloud or are close enough to get zapped. This is deadly, believe me. And more bang for the buck. I've got my skills up in the 40s and I'm doing over 10,000 damage per second. Sick.

6. Slap a Lower Resist wand on...and things get very interesting as poison damage could go even higher.

So, to wrap up, yes, poison isn't a precise..x points of damage, but it can be very, very effective, especially with LF and Physical Damage. There are very few if any LI/PI/Poison immunes in the game, so you can effectively kill everything. I am in the WSK with a level 87 character now and am rolling along. Poison is wrecking havoc--so it really works. But you need equipment and skills to be efficient, but Bramble and Trang Ouls along with 38 additional skill points for what it gives is quite a deal.

So, what do you think....?

James.

[Kijya]

There was a guide out called the Tao of Poison...if anyone in the forum knows where this guide can be found
At the Strategy Compendium here (http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-articles/taopoison.shtml). Hope the link works, can't check as the schools firewall blocks the page :undecided: Otherwise just use the "DiabloII.Net Links" up this page and go to it manually. Should be in the "other guides" section or something like that ...

[Lord_Alucard]

Ok, I agree that poison indeed can be a force to be reconed with, but still...once you get to a monster that is either imune, or highly resistant, your toast. I remember my long lost Poison necro, he had a fully synergized poision dagger and he was kicking ***, until those with high res or imunities came forth.
He stood there and stabbed them uitil he had a broken arm form stabbing, sure...I didn't have Bramble OR had any thoughts about Trang-Oul's Gloves.

And 10.000 damage per second...that truly is sick, but that is still before resistance right? And even if you have a lower resist wand, you still cant penetrate imunities?

Still, interesting build, and I'm not going to ignore it since you have given me numbers on it.

[jparm3rd]

Kijya:

The link worked fine and I have a copy! It was right under my nose the entire time! Thanks so much :grin:

James.

[jparm3rd]

Lord_Alculard:

Those are excellent points. I'll expand on each a little.

As you noted, poison won't work on immune monsters and works poorly on resistant monsters, especially in Hell thanks to the regeneration. The good news is that only about 5% of the monsters in Hell are immune. About 20% or so of the monsters in Hell are resistant and most of those not very.

As to your poison necro, I agree. Again, the weakness of one element. Again, the good news there is that none of the bosses are immune to poison, so you can complete the game-but I agree, its not fun to run into the wall like that. And while most will tell you to use your merc and zon and tank...that can take awhile. That's why with this build I use poison as a secondary killer. The primary killer is Lightning through Lightning Fury. I generally first thing (unless dealing with an immune) throw a Plague jav, switch skills to Lightning Fury, throw a couple of those and usually, everything around me is dead. If not, I'll switch back to Plague and rinse/repeat. Because both LF and Plague are Jav & Ranged skills, they work great together. Plus you still have the physical damage you are laying out through your javelin itself, the merc and the zon summonable. I've not found any monsters that are Lightning, Poison and Physical Immune yet. If I run across an LI, I just switch to Poison. Works real well. Very efficient. And its great for MFing. You have a shield, and your skills do the killing freeing up your equipment slots. The thing I like most about this build with these skills is that you can use both for sick damage. Complimentary skills are awesome and it really shines in hell. What I try to do is max out poison so its even more effective and efficient, but even if the poison was weaker, it still helps out and works well. That's probably why some guides suggest less points in Poison jav, etc. To me, that's a real endorsement of poison's effectiveness, because it does work with other skills/elements. I wouldn't solo with poison, but you could and complete the game. There would just be some slow points in the game if you did, as you pointed out with the poision necro. One trick ponies have a tough time in hell.

The 10,000 damage is before monster resistances are calculated, so who knows what the actual damage is. I just look at the monster (click on it while fighting) and if the health is depleting sufficiently, its all good. And no, the lower resist wand doesn't break immunities I think, but again, we are dealing with less than 5% of the Hell monsters. I was just giving you an example of just how much damage poison can do in a perfect world, even if it isn't quite so high because the world ain't perfect, its still really noticable and effective. Why other uses of poison aren't, I can't answer. Interesting question, though. I do, however; usually save the lower resists wand for really tough monsters like Diablo or the Ancients in Hell and wear a gull dagger instead for the MF against most other bosses. The Ancients are really the only Bosses in Hell that give me any real issue and even then its because there are three of them and one usually spawns LI. But I get through it. I think most builds are challenged with the Ancients because you can't leave. Tough fight. So I pull out my wand...and hammer and sink and whatever I can lay hands on. Poison really helps against the Ancients, btw.

Anyway...I'm glad you're open minded...I think you might have fun with this build..it is different and LF/PJ is a great skill combination, especially with the right equipment. If you can't get Bramble--I got lucky...then at least try to find Trang Ouls. Increasing Poision damage by 25% is huge by itself and its fairly easy to find. Enigma works good too with its plus skills and MF. If you can find the rune, of course....

Cheers.

James.

[Kijya]

Good that the link worked, no prob :wink3:

And even if you have a lower resist wand, you still cant penetrate imunities? Acctually you can but there will be imunities to high for the lower res to break.

Penelty is 1/5 when breaking imunities iirc. Here's a link (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=126667&page=1) to the Encyclopedia Necromantica where you can find some info (including damage formulas) about Lower resist at the bottom of the first page (bottom of the 6th post to help you find it)

[Omikron8]

Ok, I agree that poison indeed can be a force to be reconed with, but still...once you get to a monster that is either imune, or highly resistant, your toast. I remember my long lost Poison necro, he had a fully synergized poision dagger and he was kicking ***, until those with high res or imunities came forth.
He stood there and stabbed them uitil he had a broken arm form stabbing, sure...I didn't have Bramble OR had any thoughts about Trang-Oul's Gloves.

And 10.000 damage per second...that truly is sick, but that is still before resistance right? And even if you have a lower resist wand, you still cant penetrate imunities?

Still, interesting build, and I'm not going to ignore it since you have given me numbers on it.

Lower Resist can penetrate immunities assuming after the 1/5 immunity breaking penalty the monster's final poison res is under 100%

This is why poison necros work against highly resistant poison monsters and why death's web helps alot due to its -poison res which kicks in AFTER breaking

poison zons don't have this luxury which means they are more one dimensional, luckily poison zons only require 40 pts investment instead of 60+

[jparm3rd]

poison zons don't have this luxury which means they are more one dimensional, luckily poison zons only require 40 pts investment instead of 60+[/QUOTE]

Yep....it's quite a good deal, skill point wise. Similar to the Frozen Orb with the sorceress. And with LF added, the poison is less one dimensional, so it works pretty well.

James.

[Lord_Alucard]

Since this is going to be a MFer, it's very important to be able to kill anything, and since she will run areas that are lvl 85, I personally dont know all the monsters and their imunities that can spawn in those areas, But I've seen quite a few poison imunes =(

As for dual elemental, using Poison and Lightning is a good idea, the only thing I see against it is that Lightning Fury is a slow killer in hell, The lightning just dont deal enough damage to be effective. I think (dont remember exact) that a non synergized Lightning Fury deals 1-98x damage per bolt. THat is in my opinion very weak when we take resistance into concideration, as for my build with Faith and fortitude the damage per arrow with might/pride from merc...the damage will be........I really have no idea, I think alot...
If we are able to use Charged strike instead, I think that would be better, although I havn't used that skill either =)

As far as I know, in the lvl 85 areas there are no Phys Imune, except bosses, this makes it reather uneccecary for the use of an element, unless we put 20 in some elemental arrow just for that purpose. As for the usage of pure physical damage, you can always count on it ( I think I wrote this before too =)

Perhaps I will build one of each =) But I'm afraid that will cost abit to much. But I'm still deciding, I think I will go for my build, since I'm closer to completing that gear ( I think =)

[jparm3rd]

Lord_Alucard:

In 1.11, I too have noticed more poison immunes, especially since in the WSK, there are lot of special random monsters, ones you don't typically see in ACT 4 & 5. And yep, a % of those are poison immunes, like cadavers, for example. LF is listed at 1-580 Lightning damage per bolt at level 20, so clearly the damage is less due to Hell nerfing ect. But this damage doesn't include the physical damage of your jav, either, which would be added. Once again, another skill comes to LF's aid and this is Pierce. A moderate pierce, say Level 12, assures that 3 out of 4 javs pierce, which can possibly trigger a second, third, ect blast of those lovely lightning explosions, each one doing somewhere around ~500 damage per bolt. It all adds up. Throw in poison and its very doable. Again, no build solves every problem. This build does work and you can MF very efficiently. You just have to be disciplined and stick to the build plan-every skill point is critical. There are some rough spots, but they can be overcome--thats what so great about this game and why it has lasted nearly 7 years after it came out....phenomenal, really.

As to Critical Strike---it is typically used against solo boss monsters, superuniques, champions, etc. LF does much better against packs, mainly due to the pierce and constant group damage as each monster present acts as a target against their companions. The cow level probably demonstrates this better than anywhere, especially since the monster packs tend run in groups of 40-50. LF rules in this area, the more monsters, the more piercing and thus an endless repeating loop. Plague has a devastating effect too, because of the collateral poisonings.

Still, I do agree with you that the bow side does do better physical damage and I understand your desire for sure damage, so to each his own. I'd like to try your build--it looks very powerful.

James.

[Lord_Alucard]

About the pierceability, You say this shines when killing cows...I want to disagree abit with you, I happen to have a rather wellgeared amazon, maxed Lightning Fury but no synergies (built a looong time ago) and she is so weak its embarresing when it comes to cows in hell, even if she pierces 5-7 times, the cows takes at most, 1/4 of total life in damage. And when using lightning I kinda overlook the physical damage the javalin itself deals since it deals so little damage compared to the life of the mobs.

So lightning Fury is almost out of the question unless you build a fully synergized, überexpensive ála 4*5/5 monarch, Perfect Griffon (5/5)
and so on, then a lightning ama is good =)

[jparm3rd]

Hmm. We are seeing different things. Was this happening to you in v1.11b?

In normal and nightmare the cows go down easy. I don't even break a sweat. Sometimes my stupid merc runs off and gets killed, but I have no trouble. In Hell, things are tougher, especially with the Cow King, who is Lightning Enchanted. Still poison does great. I do have to throw about 10-12LFs, so I'm looking at 4-5 cycles as opposed to 1-2 on Nightmare. I do not have synergies in LF.

I'm wearing decent equipment, like Bramble, Trang ouls, Splendor, Ethereal Titans, War Travs, Valkyries socketed with a 5/5 poison jewel, Thundergod's vigor, bul kath, maras. I also have tons of +skills charms, so I'm hitting well over 35 in skills..maybe this is making a difference. I do use a lower resist wand against the cows. It noticably speeds things up. Don't know. I think I'll start a post asking the forum if anyone has taken an LF zon into Hell cows and see what responses we get. I use ATMA and have perfect equip, maybe the numbers are helping me....I don't get it. Hmmm.

James.

[jparm3rd]

Ok, as I intimated in my last communique, I did post a thread asking the good forum members if a maxed unsynergized LF is viable in Hell and I got back two responses from some pretty experienced players both claiming it is in v1.11b.

One of these responders even stated it could be done in Hell with a cracked jav.....so I think maxed LF is a good, viable skill in Hell even unsynergized. I've done it three times without too much difficulty....so much so that I find doing it with 400+ Magic Find is no problem. My skills kill efficiently. I've really tweaked this build so that it works well--maybe I'll write a guide if there's forum interest. Not to say there aren't danger areas or that I smoke through, but it is quick enough and to me, more exciting than a sorc.....

James.

[Lord_Alucard]

Well, my amazon in singelplayer was built ages ago, we are talking years, she wears a decent setup with titans, skullders, Bul-Kathos, stormsheild, Valkyrie wing for starters. All in all I think i have 29-30 in Lightningfury, as for lower resist and such, When I built that amazon I had no idea that it was an option since I still was a "noob" concidering statalocation and skillusage =)

But I can clearly see that a fully synergized poision amazon with a good % bramble, Trang-Oul's, some poison facets...will do a hefty amount of damage to the cows (using them as an example). And I do not doubt that you build is any less effective then what you say it is =)
If I have the time (and later, economy) I will try and build both builds and see whats best.

[Maniphesto]

As for the all around Assassin, I don't know, traps for MFing? No realy physical dmg to count on when facing Lightning imunes, think I will skip this one.

Well, I can vouch for a trap assassin being great at Mf'ing (especially walking around with an infinity merc which will break most lightning imunes).

Just spam about 3 - 4 lightning traps and 1 or 2 death sentries and EVERYTHING drops like flies.

[Lord_Alucard]

Well, I can vouch for a trap assassin being great at Mf'ing (especially walking around with an infinity merc which will break most lightning imunes).

Just spam about 3 - 4 lightning traps and 1 or 2 death sentries and EVERYTHING drops like flies.

But that requires an Infinity, thats way to expensive =(
Otherwise i belive that it's a good MFer

[jparm3rd]

Lord_Alucard:

Good luck on your build. If you find the time and need help with a LF/PJ build down the road.......use your Battle Orders/Shout and holler.........:laughing:

James.