View Full Version : what is BvC?
Barb vs Caster
made to kill mages/casters :shocked: :grin:
mainaman
25-04-2006, 20:45
what is BvC?
barb vs caster
they use 2 weapons and enigma, with decent fcr , and leap basically can kill any caster if played right.
KaythonXE
25-04-2006, 23:02
BvC is the over-rated barb. It works so well because it uses specific equipment against casters. Any melee class would typically destroy this class, due to no block/low defense, et cetera. And having a lightning sorc myself. I'm not all impressed with this class. They suck until they plop on absorb, which, I know they do after dying to 3 hits. But then I hire a merc and they die in 2. :)
BvC is the over-rated barb. It works so well because it uses specific equipment against casters. Any melee class would typically destroy this class, due to no block/low defense, et cetera. And having a lightning sorc myself. I'm not all impressed with this class. They suck until they plop on absorb, which, I know they do after dying to 3 hits. But then I hire a merc and they die in 2. :)
The common barb set-up doesn't have specific gear for specific casters(of course some can still be kept in the stash) and destroys every melee build in the game except Bvbs if played correctly. And it definitely doesn't require absorb to kill casters or die in 3 hits, the hammerdin is obviously an exception becuase of their unresistable and incredibly high dmg. All it really requires is respectable wealth and skill.
nickedoff
25-04-2006, 23:20
Apparently, they employ lots of solid type damage or open wounds and typically use a Beast and Grief (or BotD).
It seems that everyone is calling any barb that uses an Enigma a BVC lately, but times change I suppose.
Imbecile
25-04-2006, 23:46
BvC is the over-rated barb. It works so well because it uses specific equipment against casters. Any melee class would typically destroy this class, due to no block/low defense, et cetera. And having a lightning sorc myself. I'm not all impressed with this class. They suck until they plop on absorb, which, I know they do after dying to 3 hits. But then I hire a merc and they die in 2. :)
Damn I feel tears of sorrow. A BvC can take on any class in the game, of course a BvB will win if you decide to go whirl vs whirl. Otherwise all other melee classes can be handled with out much trouble. A BvC is an universal build, which only counter-class is a BvB.
id say hammerdins would give a BvC a very good run for its money =P
equal lvl of equip and equal lvl of skill
hammerdin maybe even greater than BvC under the above conditions.....eitherway i think they are pretty equal...
nickedoff
26-04-2006, 00:07
There was a thread about hammerdins killing BVCs in the paladin forum;
Apparently, the BVCs just use a bow to OW the 'dins, or leap and then tele in their blind spot, and they're done.
psh hammerdins dont standard a huge chance i would say it is almost 50/50.
Reason for this is a basic tele hammer will not succeed vs a BvC that knows what he is doing. Then again the wannabe barbs u see that stick on a few items and just WW through hammerfields dont have a chance either.
The only tye of hammerdins that can Beat BvC is any that know how to desync and know how to tele hammer when rite etc.
But back again a good barb can beat a desyncing pala using leap + Doom to possibly slow the pala desyncing also Widowmaker wile using leap to stop the chances of tele-hammers etc.
And @ the person who claims BvC is no good with mele and has to stack absorbs, i dont think u have seen a real BvC cuz firstly BvC needs very litle abs due to the high life of the character. Secondly the only mele char that can beat a BvC consecutively a BvB, the rest its either tilted to the BvC or possibly 50/50 but i yet to see another mele build that can beat BvC often.
Wot makes BvC good is that its such a versatile build and is a more allround character which can deal with caster well and still mele.
IEqualsGood
26-04-2006, 02:58
Mmmmh most hammerdins I see generally don't use a lot of skill, though I guess some can use namelocking with max FCR if they're smart but skill wise as someone said above the best BvC's have to try pretty hard to take out some casters...you ahve to be very aware of even thing's like teleporting patterns to make out someone like a blizzard, more difficult than it looks.
KaythonXE
26-04-2006, 04:39
Every BvC I've faced has had a hard time with me. Leap's double recorvery animation is easily recovered with a good character with high fhr, and fcr who can tele away then simply blast the still ww'ing barb. Hammerdins can just as easily switch to an ebotdz, angelics, and charge a bow-wielding barb and hit them for over 2k pvp damage. And the fact that bvcs have low defense, and that they get locked in charge is the perfect equation for death.
In every thread I've gone to it says that BvCs can simply switch their gear and do this and that. One, 80% of tournaments you cannot switch your gear. Two, the other player can switch their gear just as easily. I never said they needed absorb to be good, I said 95% of the times in pubs I kill them then they put on absorb. My not even fully geared paladin can even take on these silly builds, not to say I don't lose some of the time, but it's majority that counts.
Everyone says it's a great build, yes it is good, but it is easily countered. But then everyone comes on and says this and that about how they can switch gear and the BvC has the best charms while the for example paladin has mediocore gear. Of course a skilled player with 30 3/20/20s is going to beat a mediocore equipped paladin. But I guarantee you put the same 37x 32020s, torch, and anni on a zealot that the bvc has, optimal gear, and the zealot will beat any BvC hands down? Why? Numbers. BvCs aren't set up for melee combat, thus no shield. Shout isn't maxed. So a common BvC has 6-7k life, a similiar paladin will have 4.5k life. But the paladin will have max block, the barb won't. The paladin will be doing more damage. The paladin will have greater defense and ar. Paladin will beat the barb.
But here comes the 'barb can triangle ww, gg no reach = no dmg to barb'. Mhm. The paladin will have walk on, will strike at the moment you come into range, and a GOOD paladin will have the same range as you. Have fun ww'ing through 75% block and 50k+ defense with mediocre ar, while a zealot is blasting you with more damage, and hits that you can't even render blocked.
Your hdin theory is dumb. Good BvCs don't really use widow for damage, just for ow on massively defensive hdins. If a hdin does that, his fcr suffers terribly, and a barb can use whirl. Besides, in my 2 years of playing a BvC, I have never been charge locked in any form, except when being jumped.
The thing that makes whirlwind so good is that fact that you move when you attack, not just the superior range.
Walking into a ww is a predictable tatic. Besides, a BvC can reangle their whirls so that they still clip properly, in addition to other tricks (desync whirl, teleport whirl). BvCs can achieve all the AR that need with angelics (puts most at about 19-20k), and with enchant it becomes around 25k. Plus, a barb has much more damage, since they get around 8k with enigma, and much more with a completely melee setup (Fort).
Less talking, more fighting, I guess. Account?
Who is that directed at? =]
Romper Stomper
26-04-2006, 06:54
Every BvC I've faced has had a hard time with me. Leap's double recorvery animation is easily recovered with a good character with high fhr, and fcr who can tele away then simply blast the still ww'ing barb. Hammerdins can just as easily switch to an ebotdz, angelics, and charge a bow-wielding barb and hit them for over 2k pvp damage. And the fact that bvcs have low defense, and that they get locked in charge is the perfect equation for death.
...
But I guarantee you put the same 37x 32020s, torch, and anni on a zealot that the bvc has, optimal gear, and the zealot will beat any BvC hands down? Why? Numbers. BvCs aren't set up for melee combat, thus no shield. Shout isn't maxed. So a common BvC has 6-7k life, a similiar paladin will have 4.5k life. But the paladin will have max block, the barb won't. The paladin will be doing more damage. The paladin will have greater defense and ar. Paladin will beat the barb.
But here comes the 'barb can triangle ww, gg no reach = no dmg to barb'. Mhm. The paladin will have walk on, will strike at the moment you come into range, and a GOOD paladin will have the same range as you. Have fun ww'ing through 75% block and 50k+ defense with mediocre ar, while a zealot is blasting you with more damage, and hits that you can't even render blocked.
It's clear at this point that you have no idea what you're talking about. How about you seek out some decent barbs to fight instead of playing fantasy d2 w/ a calculator?
Try luis19 (FriggenSaget, xBobSagetx) on USEast.
Any half-decent BvC barb won't die to just 3 hits. Also, to kill a let's say 6k life barb always in 3 hits you are expecting ~48k lightning or more at each hit. With a wide dmg range 1-48 000, to even get off 1 of those 48k lightnings you will have to be very lucky, let's say 999/48 000, ok, that's 2%. So on paper, to kill the barb, you would need ~150 lightning's to kill him in 3 hits, but that's on paper. If we take a decent average dmg, 24k, you will need at ~6 hits to kill a decent BvC, talking about 6100 life at most.
Please, stop theorycrafting and fight someone for real.
And not to even mention it, with 48 000 maximum dmg, you have absolutely no TK so you have no ES so you will die very quickly.
As for you chances to score anything over 48 000, let's take you a maximum dmg of 51 000, now you have 3 000/51000, that comes up 5%. Not that good, is it?
As for Zealots, who the **** makes a Zealot for PvP?
As for Hammerdins, most of them (~90%) are PvM Hammerdins and thus weak.
As for your theorycrafting, you suck. Even I beat you to it. And I'm only half-decent in maths, using a crappy calculator (the one in my phone).
mainaman
26-04-2006, 08:47
KaythonXE (http://forums.diabloii.net/member.php?u=174457)
i'm up for some friendly duels w *mainaman
Any half-decent BvC barb won't die to just 3 hits. Also, to kill a let's say 6k life barb always in 3 hits you are expecting ~48k lightning or more at each hit. With a wide dmg range 1-48 000, to even get off 1 of those 48k lightnings you will have to be very lucky, let's say 999/48 000, ok, that's 2%. So on paper, to kill the barb, you would need ~150 lightning's to kill him in 3 hits, but that's on paper. If we take a decent average dmg, 24k, you will need at ~6 hits to kill a decent BvC, talking about 6100 life at most.
Please, stop theorycrafting and fight someone for real.
And not to even mention it, with 48 000 maximum dmg, you have absolutely no TK so you have no ES so you will die very quickly.
As for you chances to score anything over 48 000, let's take you a maximum dmg of 51 000, now you have 3 000/51000, that comes up 5%. Not that good, is it?
As for Zealots, who the **** makes a Zealot for PvP?
As for Hammerdins, most of them (~90%) are PvM Hammerdins and thus weak.
As for your theorycrafting, you suck. Even I beat you to it. And I'm only half-decent in maths, using a crappy calculator (the one in my phone).
I agree man there is too much theorycrafting nowadays, ppl look at a few stats on paper then claim which one is better, with little or no experience with the char let allone any dueling experience.
U dont seem to know much if anything about a BvC, i mean what kinda barb will let u charge lock him and charge u to death just like this? this would mean he does not have enough hit recovery for this to happen.
And How many times do i have to say this NUMBERS MEAN JACK **** if the person on either end has no skill or technique has not been factored in. all u have done is looked at a d2 damage calc and made assesments from this.
Again u clearly dont understand how WW works as it proven a Barb with like 10-15 ar can comfortably hit a Pala with that kida of defence and even then as most know defence hits dimminishing returns.
I think the reason people theorycraft is because it takes a LOT to actually get the godly equipment together to make a character - so they make a guess based on numbers.
And then there is the skill aspect.
Theorycraft is a semi-useful tool for working out approximate relative damage rates between two builds generally on the assumption of equal gear and skills without having to make the character, collect the gear and practice til perfect.
On assumptions of equal gear/player skill it's not a *bad* thing to work the numbers as the game works everythig out on probabilities which over time boil down to pure numbers.
That said - the only way you can really say one *type* of build is better than another *type* is to do the duels with similar quality of equipment and with players of approximately equal skill.
mainaman
26-04-2006, 17:13
well how can you compare the quality of equipmant of barb and hammerdin, like by the usefullness to the build or what?
BvC usses more xpensive gear than hammerdin anyway, but even with not perf gear if played right a good BvC will take out evn the best equiped hammerdin most of the time ,and if no errors made all of the time.:prop:
well how can you compare the quality of equipmant of barb and hammerdin, like by the usefullness to the build or what?
BvC usses more xpensive gear than hammerdin anyway, but even with not perf gear if played right a good BvC will take out evn the best equiped hammerdin most of the time ,and if no errors made all of the time.:prop:
If you have one build with ideal gear and another with ideal gear then you'll have an equal comparison (for example).
Would 9PC GC with 45Life, 9 20Life/fhr/allres/etc SCs, 20/20Pala torch and a perf CTA be all that much cheaper than 36*3/20/20 and a 20/20Barb torch? (I'm more a LLD player so the cost of anythign above level 29 is a mystery to me)
KaythonXE
26-04-2006, 17:56
A 45 life pally combat gc is worth more than 10x 32020s. Not many 45 life pcombs are duped, there aren't enough on the market for them to be, while 32020s are likely 50%+ duped. I'll duel all of you when I get the time, I have midterms and a lot of classwork to catch up on. And the hammerdin doesn't need fcr if it's going to be a widowmaker vs an ebotdz. I don't have a hammerdin up and running, yet, but you can duel my melee paladin. He isn't fully optimal because I don't have my grief, so, I may not win as much. But, an ebotdz should surfice. For those who truly wish to duel me, send me a pm. And I'll get back to you.
Mainaman, no offense, but I think a 20/20 ptorch is worth many times more than a 20/20 btorch. I know a lot of BvCs use Wyrmhide enigmas, for the str req. And I also know that paladins like Archon enigmas which are significantly more expensive. A good hoz can be approximately equal to a Grief BA. And the fact that 45 life pcombs in my opinion ~ many many 32020s a hammerdin is worth a lot more than a BvC at 'optimal' status.
A BvC is going to have a hard time catching a desynching vigor/charging hammerdin, with max block, and running into invisible hammer fields. It's my opinion, and to one their own. I just never saw how BvCs were so good, only one I've seen that was actually good was from this forum, *star. . He kicked my ***. :D But, I did notice he had a hard time hitting my paladin, who had an easy time hitting him. But, the duel was easily scrapped due to my melee paladin using a HoTo.
Once again, don't say in your posts you want to duel me. PM me, and I'll get back to you.
mainaman
26-04-2006, 18:56
well perf max/ar/life sc's might be xpensive or not i dunno i play ladder..
perf btorch isnt as xpensive as perf. ptorch but have you ever seen how much is it worth to get 40/400 15 ed grief zerk ? only the axe is ez 15 hr.
and i saw 40/400 non sup grief go for 100 hr. Perfect CoA can ez go to 80+ hr, and so on
I use archon enigma and they are dirt cheap already.
The point of the discussion wasn't who's equipment is more expensive , it is about how which build has more chance to win against the othewr one.
I have met only one hammerdin so far that can bet me 5-0 and i am really unexperienced in dueling as i play my barb for 2 months now.
ill pm you for some friendly duels KaythonXE
KaythonXE
26-04-2006, 19:11
A BvC barb only need 34/400, because 34/400 and 40/400 = the same. 15ed/15sup perfect roll archon enigma is worth a whole lot, not 'dirt' cheap. The point of the discussion wasn't who'd win against the other. It was what is a BvC. I'm East NL, as I pm'ed you.
EDIT: To all of you who say numbers mean nothing, tell me how a BvC that does 100 even with the BEST of skill is going to beat a hammerdin that does 15k? Skill is something that decides the factor when to people are near equal. Equipment tells the story.
Skill is something that decides the factor when to people are near equal. Equipment tells the story.
Thats only true to the extent if all attacks had the same mechanics, like if Barbs didn't have WW and did zomg 20k-21k damage, would he have a good chance against the paladin if he needed to whack at him toe-to-toe? Nah. We'd need to go through your blocking and defense, let alone if we mis-positioned ourselves we'd take unresistable damage up our butts.
The dynamics/mechanics of the attack itself also tell a lot of the "story".
At the very LEAST, Whirlwind is(once again) a dynamic attack that allows us to get in and then out of your field of hammers quickly, while remaining fully offensive and mobile at the same time. So sure, we gotta go through your defense and blocking, like our theory-based-zomg-attack. At the very least though, if we fail to hit, we're outta your way before we take damage.
mainaman
26-04-2006, 19:40
A BvC barb only need 34/400, because 34/400 and 40/400 = the same. 15ed/15sup perfect roll archon enigma is worth a whole lot, not 'dirt' cheap. The point of the discussion wasn't who'd win against the other. It was what is a BvC. I'm East NL, as I pm'ed you.
EDIT: To all of you who say numbers mean nothing, tell me how a BvC that does 100 even with the BEST of skill is going to beat a hammerdin that does 15k? Skill is something that decides the factor when to people are near equal. Equipment tells the story.
well whisper *star his acc on this forum is retrostar hell probably be happy to duel your pally .
Also lol, with 33x 32020's and a 400 grief, you do ~788 dmg without counting in any ds, and after 50% dr (which I doubt you will have access to) it's 394. Plus that's with Enigma, don't even dare to guess with a Fortitude. 390 dmg to max dr without fortitude, that's a hell lot. Yes, your hammerdin may do ~1000-3000, but you need to be in a very close range and plan your hammers very well and know your opponent very well, whereas all the BvC needs is to piss you off with guideds+leap to make you tele to him and then he can whirl you to death, easily. And no, this is not theorycrafting, this is from self-experience.
Stop theorycrafting already and duel someone for real. Your ****ing piece of **** theories such as "skill means nothing" and that "gear decide" are bull**** in anything outside of BvB. Skill>Gear>Luck. So please stop acting like your PvM crapass hammerdin could do a **** about a godly BvC whooping the floor with your HoZ. So simple. BvC>Hammerdin, 99.9% of the time.
And as for telling you how the hell the BvC does it, it's simple. Whirlwind is a moving melee attack. That's it. Step to a moving WW means pretty much death. And try attacking a barb when he is not a in whirl, he will just whirl a little before you tele, you take dmg. Of course this is not a fact with such healers as Zaczku and Imperor_III, but if you take healing into the account, then the barb is even more superior, as he has way more life to heal, so he can take, let's say, 5900 dmg, then heal to full, and back to 100 life, back to full, and do this ~16 times. Your hammerdin will have ~4500 life, so he will end up wasting his rejuvs quicker and thus end up dying in the end due to lack of rejuvs.
KaythonXE
26-04-2006, 22:50
So now as Ce Olba just stated a BvC using nothing but 2 cracked war axes that has the most skill in BvC dueling ever is better than the worst hammerdin player ever with the godliest gear. Because a naked skillfull barb can kill an unskillful godly hammerdin? I don't think so.
Once again it's always the standard BvC wins setup where the crapass PvM Hammerdin loses to the Godly BvC. Why? Cause you're dueling a PvM hammerdin, obviously. Duel a PvP hammerdin and watch yourself get totally destroyed. I cannot prove this to you, my hammerdin is level 15. I know someone who has a hammerdin who will duel you, but you have to find him in a pub. He won't waste his time on random callouts or challenges by people like Ce Olba who get upset over words and swear 4-5 times because they're mad. You cannot take 5900 damage then heal, because hammers will be doing damage in intervals that won't bring you the brink of death, but kill you.
You're in europe, no sense in arguing with you because I will never duel you. And it is theory crafting, if I'm dueling a BvC that just waits for me to tele to him. I won't. I'll wait, an easy strategy that kills your silly little BvC. Why? Cause they are bad.
So now as Ce Olba just stated a BvC using nothing but 2 cracked war axes that has the most skill in BvC dueling ever is better than the worst hammerdin player ever with the godliest gear. Because a naked skillfull barb can kill an unskillful godly hammerdin? I don't think so.
Know what I hate about wimps like you? They always go over-board on everything. I never talked about using charsi-bought gear, rather that whereas a BvC doesn't necessarily need godly gear, the hammerdin certainly does.
Once again it's always the standard BvC wins setup where the crapass PvM Hammerdin loses to the Godly BvC. Why? Cause you're dueling a PvM hammerdin, obviously. Duel a PvP hammerdin and watch yourself get totally destroyed. I cannot prove this to you, my hammerdin is level 15. I know someone who has a hammerdin who will duel you, but you have to find him in a pub. He won't waste his time on random callouts or challenges by people like Ce Olba who get upset over words and swear 4-5 times because they're mad. You cannot take 5900 damage then heal, because hammers will be doing damage in intervals that won't bring you the brink of death, but kill you.
Whatever, yadda yadda. Blab more about PvM hammerdins, it's a fact that 99% of all hammerdins are those hell-rushers. But Luder here has a PvP hammerdin, and yes, I beat him pretty badly. And as for "godly PvP hammerdin" bull****, there's only been like 1 hammerdin who keeps killing me over and over again, and he happens to be pretty much godly and just as BM.
You're in europe, no sense in arguing with you because I will never duel you. And it is theory crafting, if I'm dueling a BvC that just waits for me to tele to him. I won't. I'll wait, an easy strategy that kills your silly little BvC. Why? Cause they are bad.
Lol, you can wait all you want, Widow>your crapass waiting. Please shut the hell up about your "godly" hammerdins, it's a fact, BvC>Hammerdin, shut up and accept it. Or go to Google, Pictures, Gackt, and GG ONWED :OOOO.
And no, your crapass tele on top **** strategies won't kill my BvC. Desynch hammers are what kills BvC's, not tele hammers. Tele hammerdins are crap. Oh and btw, some of the desynch hammerdins on europe happen to have godly dr (50%), fcr (125), and max block, but no tele. Why? Because they desynch your ***.
KaythonXE
26-04-2006, 23:13
You're seriously taking this to a whole new world of caring, you're like taking this personal as if your BvC is really you. I find it funny. As for me your insults mean nothing, as I'm high on a painkiller for a sports injury and blabbing on about how hammerdins>BvCs doesn't trouble me.
Hammerdin dmg = Hight and non resistable, meaning you cannot stop it. No matter how hard you try.
BvC dmg = Low and resistable. Meaning you can stop it, and it can do little damage to a hammerdin. 8k * (1/6) *.5 = 666 damage. 15k * (1/6) = 2500 damage. Good hammerdin has 4k+ life. BvC 7k.
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 3334 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, 4500 life remains
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 2668 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, 2000 life remains
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 2002 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, and uh-oh spaghetti-os the BvC dies. :/
Romper Stomper
27-04-2006, 00:35
Enough blabbering -- duel luis19 on east or me over tcp/ip when I get back to the states.
mainaman
27-04-2006, 01:01
You're seriously taking this to a whole new world of caring, you're like taking this personal as if your BvC is really you. I find it funny. As for me your insults mean nothing, as I'm high on a painkiller for a sports injury and blabbing on about how hammerdins>BvCs doesn't trouble me.
Hammerdin dmg = Hight and non resistable, meaning you cannot stop it. No matter how hard you try.
BvC dmg = Low and resistable. Meaning you can stop it, and it can do little damage to a hammerdin. 8k * (1/6) *.5 = 666 damage. 15k * (1/6) = 2500 damage. Good hammerdin has 4k+ life. BvC 7k.
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 3334 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, 4500 life remains
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 2668 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, 2000 life remains
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 2002 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, and uh-oh spaghetti-os the BvC dies. :/ did you forget to count the ow and double dmg chances?
i can assure you you will get killed in 3 hits with your 4k+ life stop arguing and go play in the pool with the little kids
or just do as romperstomper sais whisper *luis19 or *star and see how ez it si to play aginst good bvc
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 01:15
That was so obviously a joke. -_- Wait til you get to NL I'll show you. Y'know what, I'll let me weak little ladder mf sorc duel your BvC, then when I die I'll be like wait til you get to NL. Then, in NL, I'll completely destroy your barb.
EDIT: What I did do is make the barb's attack always max. But it was a joke, none-the-less.
EDIT EDIT: I'll duel you both this weekend.
well i use a mage i can whoop alot of BvC on Europe Ladder but then again half of these guys dont know how to use there BvCs properly.
Like they dont know the basics on how to take on a hammerdin i.e tele WW through hammer fields, not using leap properly, not much use of widow e.t.c e.t.c, infact i have not seen many with widow the one i say using Widow i finished him up quickly anyway but he had potential.
What makes my build worst is that i switch between hammer and Foh and alot of barbs dont know about res stack etc. and how to deal with this scenario.
But i know for a fact that when i use my BvC i have a good record against Hamerdins infact i don't remember where i can say a hammerdin has 2-0 me or something like that i usally pull off wins.
And as Ceolba pointed out tele hammer is not what u use if u expect to beat a half decent BvC. Even with the ones i fought i had to use a little desyncs and mix up with a few tele hammers but even that rellying heavily on tele hammer will = u lose.
Even now when i duel i notice i use very little tele hammer infact im mostly charging with Vigor and vs tele hammers i simply charge hammer and desync in fields and take care of them fast.
P.S
Can't wait to go NL i need to lay the smack down on both Luder and CeOlba ^^ :grin: hopefully il be even better by then.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 02:25
You'd be in for a surprise Sic. People in NL have access to dupes unlike those in ladder, so they're commonly superior gear wise. Skill wise, dunno, could be either. I said nothing about tele hammers, though I've seen vids of BvCs getting destroyed by it.
In any matter, I have no clue about this tele hammer business. Only time I ever did it back in .09 was when I had my old hammerdin. And it worked fine, but, not against ww barbs or melee characters. For those I have other tactics.
Silly people, luis is clearly *dirtydozen131. =\
Or /w *ling203 (me)
=]
And no good hdin will use 45 lifers in any good quantity. Standard is jsut enough to hit 13-14k dmg.
You are blatantly twisting numbers to your favor. Just because a hammerdin does more damage than a bvc, doesn't mean he is going to hit. By turning everything into a purely mathematical calculation, you're clearly showing that
you really have no real points.
P.S.:
So now as Ce Olba just stated a BvC using nothing but 2 cracked war axes that has the most skill in BvC dueling ever is better than the worst hammerdin player ever with the godliest gear.
Yes, this is true. Welcome to the world of open wounds.
RetroStar
27-04-2006, 05:15
didnt i duel your sorc already kathonxe.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 05:44
Yeah you did. I think I pointed this out like uhm.. one of these posts. But I want to reduel you with my pally, who has a weapon other than hoto. And I've improved some more stuff.
Yo Jerion. Cracked war axes = no open wounds.
MysticDragon
27-04-2006, 07:11
I must agree with BvC > Hammerdin. Hammerdin may do irresistable damage, but can't hit a BvC as easily. As for desynching hammers, the BvC will leap in place to stop it. Cracked War Axes + Dracs for open wounds.
thats why im more interested as i mainly use NL chars and this is a ladder char im using cuz NL has so many cool bugged items to use etc. res boots dupped rings.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 15:23
One it's only 25% open wounds with dracs, and no, I said he was only using cracked war axes to 'prove' the point that without gear even the most skillful of players will = garbage. Most hammerdins don't have 86 fhr, thus leap really gets them. :/ Luckily mine WILL and BvCs will get royally owned. Though, I'm gonna' need practice because I haven't used a hammerdin in ages.
EDIT: A BvC has trouble hitting anything with high fcr and high fhr. Period. A BvC would not hit my sorc if I wasn't stupid enough to keep trying to tank them with no ES and no Block.
When a BvC leaps in place he aims to knockback and double fhr you, normally not expecting a hammerdin to recover quick enough to cast a hammer when he tele wws. If the bvc name lock tele wws as the hammerdin hammers he gets nailed while the wwing hammerdin may be able to break the defense of a weak hammerdin easily, but not a good one. And even then, a good one has 75% chance to block. While the hammerdin will hit him everytime.
Thoridian
27-04-2006, 15:54
So now as Ce Olba just stated a BvC using nothing but 2 cracked war axes that has the most skill in BvC dueling ever is better than the worst hammerdin player ever with the godliest gear. Because a naked skillfull barb can kill an unskillful godly hammerdin? I don't think so.
Once again it's always the standard BvC wins setup where the crapass PvM Hammerdin loses to the Godly BvC. Why? Cause you're dueling a PvM hammerdin, obviously. Duel a PvP hammerdin and watch yourself get totally destroyed. I cannot prove this to you, my hammerdin is level 15. I know someone who has a hammerdin who will duel you, but you have to find him in a pub. He won't waste his time on random callouts or challenges by people like Ce Olba who get upset over words and swear 4-5 times because they're mad. You cannot take 5900 damage then heal, because hammers will be doing damage in intervals that won't bring you the brink of death, but kill you.
You're in europe, no sense in arguing with you because I will never duel you. And it is theory crafting, if I'm dueling a BvC that just waits for me to tele to him. I won't. I'll wait, an easy strategy that kills your silly little BvC. Why? Cause they are bad.
You must be the dumbest person ever LOL Olba > your *** ez...
Btw dueled Luis yet or still u havent whisped him? Go rush more peoples with mf hammerdin please.
Yo Jerion. Cracked war axes = no open wounds.
Yo do you know there are other ways to get OW than weapons ? Draculs, gores, ow belt, keke?
One it's only 25% open wounds with dracs, and no, I said he was only using cracked war axes to 'prove' the point that without gear even the most skillful of players will = garbage. Most hammerdins don't have 86 fhr, thus leap really gets them. :/ Luckily mine WILL and BvCs will get royally owned. Though, I'm gonna' need practice because I haven't used a hammerdin in ages.
EDIT: A BvC has trouble hitting anything with high fcr and high fhr. Period. A BvC would not hit my sorc if I wasn't stupid enough to keep trying to tank them with no ES and no Block.
When a BvC leaps in place he aims to knockback and double fhr you, normally not expecting a hammerdin to recover quick enough to cast a hammer when he tele wws. If the bvc name lock tele wws as the hammerdin hammers he gets nailed while the wwing hammerdin may be able to break the defense of a weak hammerdin easily, but not a good one. And even then, a good one has 75% chance to block. While the hammerdin will hit him everytime.
Duel luis and get your stinky theorycrafting *** raped ok?
You're seriously taking this to a whole new world of caring, you're like taking this personal as if your BvC is really you. I find it funny. As for me your insults mean nothing, as I'm high on a painkiller for a sports injury and blabbing on about how hammerdins>BvCs doesn't trouble me.
Hammerdin dmg = Hight and non resistable, meaning you cannot stop it. No matter how hard you try.
BvC dmg = Low and resistable. Meaning you can stop it, and it can do little damage to a hammerdin. 8k * (1/6) *.5 = 666 damage. 15k * (1/6) = 2500 damage. Good hammerdin has 4k+ life. BvC 7k.
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 3334 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, 4500 life remains
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 2668 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, 2000 life remains
BvC Ce Olba hits HammerdinXE for 666 dmg, 2002 life remains.
HammerdinXE hits BvC Ce Olba for 2500 damage, and uh-oh spaghetti-os the BvC dies. :/
Are you seriously so ****ing dumb you expect a BvC to tank you? Damn your stupidity reaches highest values possible. :shocked:
One it's only 25% open wounds with dracs, and no, I said he was only using cracked war axes to 'prove' the point that without gear even the most skillful of players will = garbage. Most hammerdins don't have 86 fhr, thus leap really gets them. :/ Luckily mine WILL and BvCs will get royally owned. Though, I'm gonna' need practice because I haven't used a hammerdin in ages.
EDIT: A BvC has trouble hitting anything with high fcr and high fhr. Period. A BvC would not hit my sorc if I wasn't stupid enough to keep trying to tank them with no ES and no Block.
When a BvC leaps in place he aims to knockback and double fhr you, normally not expecting a hammerdin to recover quick enough to cast a hammer when he tele wws. If the bvc name lock tele wws as the hammerdin hammers he gets nailed while the wwing hammerdin may be able to break the defense of a weak hammerdin easily, but not a good one. And even then, a good one has 75% chance to block. While the hammerdin will hit him everytime.
Lol?
No decent barb is going to leap-tele-ww your casting hammerdin and try to tank you. Period. They shoot you with their bow and interrupt your desynching with leap. When you're pissed enough of taking dmg from open wounds and the bow you'll start chasing them with tele and they'll be already wwing when you tele on top of them. If you don't tele, they'll just kill you with the bow.
listen again i will say this therocrafting is just not accurate enought to work out what is better. I mean calculating some numbers on paper is one thing, but actually doing the practical, in this case testing or dueling is something different.
90% of the time the therory nerver ever goes to plan in a practical infact therory is only really used to give a rought idea on how something should work but u cant just use this theory to come to a conclusion just like that.
In one post u showed about dmg is flawed, u realy think a barb will tank u?
that sort of description makes me think about the typical newbie barb duels where the hammer sits in a hammer field and the barb WW through this field.
In reality this will never happen against a good oponment he will simply GA u to death if u hide in ur hammer field.
Also even in ur caluclations, chances to cast OW has not been factored chances to cast DS not factored dmg from venom not factored etc etc.
It just too vague, u have to always factor in ur oppositions skill and technique, not just look at the gear the character is using.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 17:14
I cannot believe the audacity of Thoridian to call me a moron. I mean look at the dumb guy, he is taking things out of context.
You must be the dumbest person ever LOL Olba > your *** ez...
Btw dueled Luis yet or still u havent whisped him? Go rush more peoples with mf hammerdin please.
I DID say I have a hammerdin but he's level 15. I've said outloud I'd duel him this weekend because I have a life outside gaming unlike you I suppose, I can't just get on and blam.
Yo do you know there are other ways to get OW than weapons ? Draculs, gores, ow belt, keke?
You're more of a moron. Especially since someone made the comment that Skill>Gear I had to point out even the more skilled player with 2x cracked war axes won't be able to beat a hammerdin with the top end gear, even if the hammerdin is unskilled. Two, some idiot suggested even though two cracked war axes do little damage, thats what OW is for. Oh damn, no OTHER gear = no OTHER sources of OW. Don't be an ignorant little idiot. Maybe if you read every post and word it'll help. :)
Are you seriously so ****ing dumb you expect a BvC to tank you? Damn your stupidity reaches highest values possible.
As I've said in past posts, and a little reading, this was comprised as a joke thus the Uh-oh spaghetti-os.
Lol?
No decent barb is going to leap-tele-ww your casting hammerdin and try to tank you. Period. They shoot you with their bow and interrupt your desynching with leap. When you're pissed enough of taking dmg from open wounds and the bow you'll start chasing them with tele and they'll be already wwing when you tele on top of them. If you don't tele, they'll just kill you with the bow.
No decent paladin is going to let you shoot him with a bow. Teleport > guided arrow w/ OW.
SicHalo, you I commend. Instead of going to straight up insults you still try to reason with me. The fact is I will never believe a barbarian is greater than a hammerdin. Because a barbarian isn't. It is somewhat possible a BvC has a greater PvP element than a hammerdin yes, but a hammerdin is a better character. A BvC for all it's power can go into chaos sanctuary and get set to the ground by iron maiden in one hit. It's pathetic. Saying they can beat any melee class is blatant disregard for anyone with skill. A 5 ranged 2h ww can easily beat a BvC. So can a Zealot.
No decent paladin is going to let you shoot him with a bow. Teleport > guided arrow w/ OW.
SicHalo, you I commend. Instead of going to straight up insults you still try to reason with me. The fact is I will never believe a barbarian is greater than a hammerdin. Because a barbarian isn't. It is somewhat possible a BvC has a greater PvP element than a hammerdin yes, but a hammerdin is a better character. A BvC for all it's power can go into chaos sanctuary and get set to the ground by iron maiden in one hit. It's pathetic. Saying they can beat any melee class is blatant disregard for anyone with skill. A 5 ranged 2h ww can easily beat a BvC. So can a Zealot.
Oh come on, your arguments are just plain silly. You really should get some experience of dueling and maybe you would understand. If you start going on the offensive against a bvc, even better as he gets free hits on you after you tele on him. If you just simply tele around spamming random hammers you can't stop the barb from shooting.
The second thing is kind of funny too, as that has nothing to do with pvp... There's an attack called berserk as well. And hammerdins just shine in the allmighty maggot lair...
And no, a 5-range 2h ww or a zealot will not beat a dual-wielding and skilled bvc, a shield using barb will however.
Thoridian
27-04-2006, 17:42
I cannot believe the audacity of Thoridian to call me a moron. I mean look at the dumb guy, he is taking things out of context.
I DID say I have a hammerdin but he's level 15. I've said outloud I'd duel him this weekend because I have a life outside gaming unlike you I suppose, I can't just get on and blam.
Then according to your calculations your level 15pala deals 2.5k dmg and got 4k life? Or these damages are only your dumb calculations versus pub 1-day old BvC ? Yep you are dumb :o btw:
My not even fully geared paladin can even take on these silly builds, not to say I don't lose some of the time, but it's majority that counts.
bring him on vs luis and get 100-0d ?
You're more of a moron. Especially since someone made the comment that Skill>Gear I had to point out even the more skilled player with 2x cracked war axes won't be able to beat a hammerdin with the top end gear, even if the hammerdin is unskilled. Two, some idiot suggested even though two cracked war axes do little damage, thats what OW is for. Oh damn, no OTHER gear = no OTHER sources of OW. Don't be an ignorant little idiot. Maybe if you read every post and word it'll help. :)
Ok i admit that was my bad i didnt read whole post, just random parts that sounded interesting. But also dont be ****ing dumb theorycrafter and bring any hammerdin vs luis and watch them die? -.- Or get your mfsorc and get owned ?
And a barb with standard gear BUT 2 cracked axes as weapons only could beat hammerdin
No decent paladin is going to let you shoot him with a bow. Teleport > guided arrow w/ OW.
while youll tele on barb with ur hammers i can assure you HE (if he's not pub ****tard that u dueled in pub) will be ready to ww a lil to right then left and down and youll end up eating several hits which will either kill you or bring at least 1/2 life down.
I have a life outside gaming unlike you I suppose, I can't just get on and blam. Yes ofcourse especially when youre online on forums since 3hours now, probably on b.net also, eh? Ask Luder or Olba im online max like 2-3 hours in past weeks nerd.
And small PS to you: Stfu and duel luis ok? then tell us how badly u got owned keke?
Oh and the Chaos Sanc part; ever heard of berserk? Doubt you did! And dont forget to tell us how ur mf lammerdin is doin in maggot lair, ok?
Forgot to add; The botd charging thingy is even dumbier than you, charging at barb = almost no block versus 5hitchecks and 25k+ ar, die please? How about ww at charging pally ? Youll eat AT LEAST 3 hits
One it's only 25% open wounds with dracs, and no, I said he was only using cracked war axes to 'prove' the point that without gear even the most skillful of players will = garbage. Most hammerdins don't have 86 fhr, thus leap really gets them. :/ Luckily mine WILL and BvCs will get royally owned. Though, I'm gonna' need practice because I haven't used a hammerdin in ages.
Lol? Luder's Hammerdin IIRC has 86 fhr, he's a damn good desyncher, he does something like 11k dmg with 125 fcr and has damn high life. So I think that I know what I'm saying when I say that BvC>Hammerdin. As for the Cracked War Axes, IIRC, I didn't say "any gear at all", but rather "not the 100% optimal gear". As of that, "not the 100% optimal gear" counts pretty much as: low grief, decent beat, random enigma, 2x dooms, arreat, a decent coa berber, good anni+torch, bad charms (20 life scs, ar/life gcs), a fortitude, a decent widowmaker, some duped resistance boots. And that's what my barb uses, and he rocks pretty damn well.
EDIT: A BvC has trouble hitting anything with high fcr and high fhr. Period. A BvC would not hit my sorc if I wasn't stupid enough to keep trying to tank them with no ES and no Block.
Lol? Barbs share the FCR breakpoints with sorcs, so a barb can easily reach ~600-700 mana with 5-7k ar and 40% FCR. That's not exactly something you can counter. And FHR means nothing, as leap=double hit recovery=~6-10 frames of hit recovery over all, 1 tele=10 frames. GG.
When a BvC leaps in place he aims to knockback and double fhr you, normally not expecting a hammerdin to recover quick enough to cast a hammer when he tele wws.
Good BvC's do not tele ww hammerdins, good BvC's use Fortitude and wait for your offense. I guess you've either not dueled any BvC's or have just dueled travi/mf barbs.
If the bvc name lock tele wws as the hammerdin hammers he gets nailed while the wwing hammerdin may be able to break the defense of a weak hammerdin easily, but not a good one. And even then, a good one has 75% chance to block. While the hammerdin will hit him everytime.
A good barb will _not_ tele to a barb, and if he will, he will tele next to the blind spot and do very short whirls or zerk you, which will pretty much prevent instant deaths. As for your 75% blocking, yes, that's another factor, but with ~18 000- 26 000 attack rating, I think a barbarian will have pretty damn many successful hits on you. And as for "weak hammerdins", I'm talking about my personal experiences from dueling Luder's hammerdin, which is a damn well built hammerdin.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 18:25
Then according to your calculations your level 15pala deals 2.5k dmg and got 4k life? Or these damages are only your dumb calculations versus pub 1-day old BvC ? Yep you are dumb :o btw:
No, that is an average hammerdin.
bring him on vs luis and get 100-0d ?
I will, this weekend.
Ok i admit that was my bad i didnt read whole post, just random parts that sounded interesting. But also dont be ****ing dumb theorycrafter and bring any hammerdin vs luis and watch them die? -.- Or get your mfsorc and get owned ?
And a barb with standard gear BUT 2 cracked axes as weapons only could beat hammerdin
You supply the two cracked war axes, and the BvC. I'll finish my hammerdin, and we'll see buddy. To my knowledge, though this could be incorrect, a barb won't hit his lasp break point in ias with this setup. Which lowers OWs effectiveness as hitting becomes a problem. Also, a good portion of ar comes from beast's fanaticism aura.
while youll tele on barb with ur hammers i can assure you HE (if he's not pub ****tard that u dueled in pub) will be ready to ww a lil to right then left and down and youll end up eating several hits which will either kill you or bring at least 1/2 life down.
Said nothing of teleporting onto him, but away from him. Charge/vigor works. It's easy to aim at desyncing people right?
Yes ofcourse especially when youre online on forums since 3hours now, probably on b.net also, eh? Ask Luder or Olba im online max like 2-3 hours in past weeks nerd.
And small PS to you: Stfu and duel luis ok? then tell us how badly u got owned keke?
Oh and the Chaos Sanc part; ever heard of berserk? Doubt you did! And dont forget to tell us how ur mf lammerdin is doin in maggot lair, ok?
Forgot to add; The botd charging thingy is even dumbier than you, charging at barb = almost no block versus 5hitchecks and 25k+ ar, die please? How about ww at charging pally ? Youll eat AT LEAST 3 hits
If I could be on B.net I probably wouldn't be on it, because, I'm currently getting ranked and seeded for an upcoming SLG tournament. Why? Because I like Halo 2 and it's easy money. On another note, I find it fun to go on the forums. Because reading some of this stuff is worthy of a laugh. I said most of this stuff when I was high on painkillers because of a sports injury, and if I could leave my room I wouldn't be on the computer for 3 hours. I'd rather be playing football or paintballing during my ****ing spring break but I can't because my ankle is ****ed.
I will duel Luis when time permits. Which isn't now.
Berserk? Yeah, try berserking a group of oblivion nights with zero defense. Tell me how that works.
How can a barb with a widow maker out ww?
You supply the two cracked war axes, and the BvC. I'll finish my hammerdin, and we'll see buddy. To my knowledge, though this could be incorrect, a barb won't hit his lasp break point in ias with this setup. Which lowers OWs effectiveness as hitting becomes a problem. Also, a good portion of ar comes from beast's fanaticism aura.
Could you please already quit with your babbling about cracked waraxes vs perfect gear. Just duel perfect gear vs perfect gear and that should do it.
If I could be on B.net I probably wouldn't be on it, because, I'm currently getting ranked and seeded for an upcoming SLG tournament. Why? Because I like Halo 2 and it's easy money. On another note, I find it fun to go on the forums. Because reading some of this stuff is worthy of a laugh. I said most of this stuff when I was high on painkillers because of a sports injury, and i+f I could leave my room I wouldn't be on the computer for 3 hours. I'd rather be playing football or paintballing during my ****ing spring break but I can't because my ankle is ****ed.
Bring more Real-Life babbling please, it makes me want to giggle like a girl.
I will duel Luis when time permits. Which isn't now.
Then FFS screw your reality **** and duel him already. Won't be so ****ing hard.
Berserk? Yeah, try berserking a group of oblivion nights with zero defense. Tell me how that works.
Leap+Howl=run-awy OK's=easy pray for telezerk=onwed. I've only died to chaos sanctuary due to amp+mana burn groups when doing them for fun with my barb.
How can a barb with a widow maker out ww?
By hitting a switch-key and whirling with his grief+beast, dumbass?
Imbecile
27-04-2006, 18:47
Lol? Luder's Hammerdin IIRC has 86 fhr, he's a damn good desyncher, he does something like 11k dmg with 125 fcr and has damn high life. So I think that I know what I'm saying when I say that BvC>Hammerdin. As for the Cracked War Axes, IIRC, I didn't say "any gear at all", but rather "not the 100% optimal gear". As of that, "not the 100% optimal gear" counts pretty much as: low grief, decent beat, random enigma, 2x dooms, arreat, a decent coa berber, good anni+torch, bad charms (20 life scs, ar/life gcs), a fortitude, a decent widowmaker, some duped resistance boots. And that's what my barb uses, and he rocks pretty damn well.
Lol? Barbs share the FCR breakpoints with sorcs, so a barb can easily reach ~600-700 mana with 5-7k ar and 40% FCR. That's not exactly something you can counter. And FHR means nothing, as leap=double hit recovery=~6-10 frames of hit recovery over all, 1 tele=10 frames. GG.
Good BvC's do not tele ww hammerdins, good BvC's use Fortitude and wait for your offense. I guess you've either not dueled any BvC's or have just dueled travi/mf barbs.
A good barb will _not_ tele to a barb, and if he will, he will tele next to the blind spot and do very short whirls or zerk you, which will pretty much prevent instant deaths. As for your 75% blocking, yes, that's another factor, but with ~18 000- 26 000 attack rating, I think a barbarian will have pretty damn many successful hits on you. And as for "weak hammerdins", I'm talking about my personal experiences from dueling Luder's hammerdin, which is a damn well built hammerdin.
Thanks for the kind words Olba, but my hammer is utterly welfare trash, just as I intended him to be. Though hammer is much more dependent on skill than items, IMHO.
Berserk? Yeah, try berserking a group of oblivion nights with zero defense. Tell me how that works.
How can a barb with a widow maker out ww?
1. Actually I have done that, berserking a group of oblivion knights is a piece of cake as they are the caster knights. However if the barb player is scared of the doom knights and others monsters around (the melee dudes) he can always howl them away, kill the oblivion knights (and no, oblivion knights are NOT affected by howl) and just ww the others. Usually the barb can just tank them all with berserk because he has so high life anyway.
2. If the hammerdin starts teleporting near the barb, he doesn't even have to shoot and it will result in a dead hammerdin. If the hammerdin has a namelock on the barb (a delayed one with unsummon and other ****) there's no way a decent barb is going to switch to bow-mode and let the hammerdin telehammer him with bow out. There's also other things the barb can do such as leaping if the hammerdin gets too close. And the weapon switch button still exists...
Thanks for the kind words Olba, but my hammer is utterly welfare trash, just as I intended him to be. Though hammer is much more dependent on skill than items, IMHO.
Well, your hammerdin is a pretty damn good one, since you know what you're doing. Your hammerdin is not one of those tele-on-top-spam-hope-for-easy-kill-mf-hammerdins. And, you are correct, a skilless hammerdin=easy hammerdin. But, as you've shown me, a hammerdin doesn't necessarily need all that fancy gear to be good, whereas a BvC depends on both skill and gear, but skill more.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 19:06
Leap+Howl=run-awy OK's=easy pray for telezerk=onwed. I've only died to chaos sanctuary due to amp+mana burn groups when doing them for fun with my barb.
I think I'll drop down to your level for a second. LOL LOL LOL LOL LMAO. There we go. I have level 1s in Chaos that have never died. You must suck super bad to die in Chaos, when the units are a mix of little wimps. This is why Hammerdin>BvC. Hammerdin can operate on 5 sojs worth of items and effectively still do hell. BvC needs 80+. :( Why we win and you lose kiddo'.
Bring more Real-Life babbling please, it makes me want to giggle like a girl.
'Kay. In four hours my girlfriend's coming over and we're having a picnic on my bed, cause I can't go outside. Until then I'll be playing Halo 2 and watching for a silly comeback here. Oh, I also will be doing some of my calculus BC homework so when I get back I will have some free time in there.
Then FFS screw your reality **** and duel him already. Won't be so ****ing hard.
I'm sorry, I don't keep up with all the internet newbie language. FFS? It is hard, because I can't walk, and my computer is broken. This is a homework/internet surfing computer and I can't play D2 on it. If I were to play him, It'd be this weekend when my friend is coming over and borrowing me his laptop.
By hitting a switch-key and whirling with his grief+beast, dumbass?
Omg omg omg I can hit the 1337 s key and have my hoz/wiz out. Omg, 75% block. +hammers for the nubbie. :)
I think I'll drop down to your level for a second. LOL LOL LOL LOL LMAO. There we go. I have level 1s in Chaos that have never died. You must suck super bad to die in Chaos, when the units are a mix of little wimps. This is why Hammerdin>BvC. Hammerdin can operate on 5 sojs worth of items and effectively still do hell. BvC needs 80+. :( Why we win and you lose kiddo'.
FYI, my BvC is about ~40 sojs, he's not even close to optimal, yet he rocks. 80 sojs it might be in some Dupes-Wonderland such as UsWest. Mmm. I want to see your lvl 1 characters survive in Chaos Sanctuary on their own for more than, let's say 30 seconds, without running away from encounters.
'Kay. In four hours my girlfriend's coming over and we're having a picnic on my bed, cause I can't go outside. Until then I'll be playing Halo 2 and watching for a silly comeback here. Oh, I also will be doing some of my calculus BC homework so when I get back I will have some free time in there.
*giggle* You're a funny dude.
I'm sorry, I don't keep up with all the internet newbie language. FFS? It is hard, because I can't walk, and my computer is broken. This is a homework/internet surfing computer and I can't play D2 on it. If I were to play him, It'd be this weekend when my friend is coming over and borrowing me his laptop.
Oh, I'm sorry for using language out of your Psysic-Absolute-Stupidity-Moron powers. FFS= For ****'s Sakes. Well, how come I'm not hurt in any place? Because I'm not dumb enough to go running around in places just to make myself look better in the eyes of meaningless people.
Omg omg omg I can hit the 1337 s key and have my hoz/wiz out. Omg, 75% block. +hammers for the nubbie. :)
YATTA!!! U IZ TEH ULITIMAET GOED !!! :ooooo 75% block is something that 23k ar _can_ hit, and that's not something that you can disagree with.
I'm always for hammerdin when you talk about BvC vs Hammer. Infact, no good hammerdin should lose to melee.
And my definition of good, is that the hammerdin knows how to desync, namelock and delay-namelock appropriately. One of the duels I've observed, the BvC (with fortitude, widow-maker and played at a high level) lost to a GOOD hammerdin 4-1. Everytime he whips out his widow maker he gets stomped by delay-namelock. Now you might say "He's a nab, and too slow not to whip out his Grief + Beast". Under BNET environment, weapon switch has a delay and even you manage slam the switch key on time, the hammerdin will be below you smacking you with his hammers.
Just get over it. Hammerdins are better. The reason why you think the otherwise is because hammerdins are such a popular 'cookie-cutter' build and newbie friendly., thus many newbies for your owning pleasure.
If you've watched mcm's BvC video, the hammerdin he duelled was clearly a newbie. That's the truth.
I agree with some aspects in ur speech Jake but a basic tele- hammer just ias not good enough vs a decent Barb the only chance of a Hammerdin taking a barb is desync.
But even then it still no where near clear cut to say a Hammerdin>BvC no way.
A BvC can beat a hammerdin i know cuz i have beaten alot of Hammerdin, and this was times when i had no Widow. With widow it only made the situation easier.
However using my hammerdin side i have found i have cleaned alot of BvC clocks but even then tele-hammer was no good infact i was mostly using desync.
Looking at both sides of the picture it comes down to the skill and technique of the users.
I find it is harder for a hammerdin than it is for a Barb to be honnest.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 19:59
Finally an ally. Praise be jesus. Hammerdins not only are better than BvCs in PvP but they are better than BvC PvM. Only thing a barb is good for is BO. That's it. Well, BO too, because they're big and probably smelly. :/ No matter how much godley AR you have 75% of all attacks get blocked. Oh well. You can't block a hammer. :( Mkay. So let's take a look at the economy right now.
Decent Hammerdin: Soj = 2x hrs NLEast Softcore WITHOUT CHARMS
Hoz ~ 1xsoj
Enigma 2-3 sojs
Wiz ~ Less than 1x soj
2x sojs ~ 2x sojs
Shako/circlet ~ Either less than soj/around 4-10 sojs
Arachs ~ 1xsoj
Treks ~ less than soj
Magefists ~ 1x pgem
15 FCR ammy ~ 6 sojs with good mods, 1-2 if bad.
BvC
GriefZ 34/330 ~ 15 sojs
Beastz ~ 4-7 sojs
Fort ~ 6-8 sojs
Enigma ~ 2-3 sojs
2x FCR rings ~ free/4 sojs, depends on if they are good.
arachs ~ 1x soj
Ammy? Highlords? ~ Less than a soj
Dracs ~ 1x soj
Duped boots, lol, ~ 12 sojs
Ber ber coa ~ 12-24 sojs
Assuming we don't put charms in, because unless the hammerdin stacks 9x 45 pcomb lifes it'll be the barb costing more. Besides anything over 7 pcombs is a waste of valueable small charm space. Irrelevant, anyways. BvCs cost MORE for LESS.
EDIT: I dunno if they were just super over powered, but I used this
Hoto
Shako
Hoz
Enigma
Magefists
Arachs
2xSoj
Boots with + vigor(I was a noob back then)
2x pcombs
Anni
Now I hit like 13k damage. But, when I was playing during this time Grief fort etc weren't in NL at the time. So, I could tele/hammer just about any build I wanted. Except for a few sorcs, even the BvAs back then god destroyed by me. And all I'd do was straight up Tele, conc, hammer 1-5 times. So what is up with that?
I agree with some aspects in ur speech Jake but a basic tele- hammer just ias not good enough vs a decent Barb the only chance of a Hammerdin taking a barb is desync.
But even then it still no where near clear cut to say a Hammerdin>BvC no way.
A BvC can beat a hammerdin i know cuz i have beaten alot of Hammerdin, and this was times when i had no Widow. With widow it only made the situation easier.
However using my hammerdin side i have found i have cleaned alot of BvC clocks but even then tele-hammer was no good infact i was mostly using desync.
Looking at both sides of the picture it comes down to the skill and technique of the users.
I find it is harder for a hammerdin than it is for a Barb to be honnest.
I think the only way to settle this is by a duel between the hallmarks of each class. (i.e mcm and some other highly skilled Hammerdin). I don't think there's any self-proclaimed godly hammerdin on this forum.
But from my perspective, a Hammerdin is far more advantageous than a BvC when pitted against each other.
Talking about which one being the better class (in general), I honestly don't know. Both class have its share of difficult duels. I really disliked the fact that BvC lovers claiming BvC > All (or except BvA), clearly that's a demonstration of absolute fanboism towards barbarians. Each class has its fair share of weaknesses, and in my opinion, for a barbarian it's either Bone Necro, Wind druid or a hammerdin.
Imbecile
27-04-2006, 21:36
I think the only way to settle this is by a duel between the hallmarks of each class. (i.e mcm and some other highly skilled Hammerdin). I don't think there's any self-proclaimed godly hammerdin on this forum.
But from my perspective, a Hammerdin is far more advantageous than a BvC when pitted against each other.
Talking about which one being the better class (in general), I honestly don't know. Both class have its share of difficult duels. I really disliked the fact that BvC lovers claiming BvC > All (or except BvA), clearly that's a demonstration of absolute fanboism towards barbarians. Each class has its fair share of weaknesses, and in my opinion, for a barbarian it's either Bone Necro, Wind druid or a hammerdin.
That made me laugh :laugh:
That maked me laugh
Am I not entitled to my own opinion?
That maked me laugh :laugh:
The correct word would be "made" not "maked". Such word as "maked" doesn't exist. You fool.
Bone necs and Hammer yeah thats arguable but Windy Druids are surprisingly the least of worries, if they play defensive then yeah this can be tough but in general Windy can't beat BvC.
Imbecile
27-04-2006, 21:44
The correct word would be "made" not "maked". Such word as "maked" doesn't exist. You fool.
Game? Your ez random ^__________________________^
Damn I hate when my brain has a sudden malfunction :prop:
Imbecile
27-04-2006, 21:45
Am I not entitled to my own opinion?
Do you know a windy that can defeat a wellplayed barb?
Do you know a windy that can defeat a wellplayed barb?
a wellplayed barb should not really lose to a windy, for it to honnestly lose the following scenarios whould have to happen;
The Windy was godly and the barb just sucked
Major lagg!!
Badly equipped, i.e no CoA no Dr setup lack FHR.
Left the computer to watch T.V.
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 21:51
The only reason BvCs are so 'godly' in peoples terms is they are very flexible. Able to equip absorb/increase max res or dr gear when needed against any type of opponent. Hammerdin's can't be stopped in damage terms. Thus it's their ultimate weakness, same with necros.
The only reason BvCs are so 'godly' in peoples terms is they are very flexible. Able to equip absorb/increase max res or dr gear when needed against any type of opponent. Hammerdin's can't be stopped in damage terms. Thus it's their ultimate weakness, same with necros.
Hammerdins are one of the best PvM characters in the existence. In PvP they do not do so well due to low range. What's the point of HUGE dmg if your range is low? As for boners, they got godly range, decent dmg, but usually lowish life, unless using 3x-4x life sks and well planned build.
As for BvC's, they dominate due to the majourity of PvP being casters. BvC's were developed for destroying casters. That's another reason why I do not see how can someone say that some caster could be superior to a mageslayer? Do you see anyone saying that ele druid>WWsin? No I don't think so. As for why BvC>Hammerdin, that's because a) BvC's got more life b) they got more range (widowmaker/moving ww) c) they help ALL parties, whereas hammerdins only help melee parties with their aura. Also, BvC's beat hammerdins in publics. Most hammerdins in publics use tele-hammer, that's a fact. I just beat 3 hammerdins pretty badly, due to all of them teleing on top of me, which is a huge mistake when I have my finger on right mouse button and ww on right click ready to decimate them.
As for PvM, Hammerdin>BvC, but for PvP BvC>Hammerdin, unless we take in account BM, where the hammerdin _might_ have a small edge due to higher dmg.
Also yes, BvC's are damn flexible, but they do _not_ need absorb versus almost anything, only dual ravens versus cold sorcs, and that's to save space from cold stack.
Imbecile
27-04-2006, 22:20
Hammerdins are one of the best PvM characters in the existence. In PvP they do not do so well due to low range. What's the point of HUGE dmg if your range is low? As for boners, they got godly range, decent dmg, but usually lowish life, unless using 3x-4x life sks and well planned build.
As for BvC's, they dominate due to the majourity of PvP being casters. BvC's were developed for destroying casters. That's another reason why I do not see how can someone say that some caster could be superior to a mageslayer? Do you see anyone saying that ele druid>WWsin? No I don't think so. As for why BvC>Hammerdin, that's because a) BvC's got more life b) they got more range (widowmaker/moving ww) c) they help ALL parties, whereas hammerdins only help melee parties with their aura. Also, BvC's beat hammerdins in publics. Most hammerdins in publics use tele-hammer, that's a fact. I just beat 3 hammerdins pretty badly, due to all of them teleing on top of me, which is a huge mistake when I have my finger on right mouse button and ww on right click ready to decimate them.
As for PvM, Hammerdin>BvC, but for PvP BvC>Hammerdin, unless we take in account BM, where the hammerdin _might_ have a small edge due to higher dmg.
Also yes, BvC's are damn flexible, but they do _not_ need absorb versus almost anything, only dual ravens versus cold sorcs, and that's to save space from cold stack.
I think gg hammerdins and gg bvcs are pretty equal when best from both classes are matched.
Thoridian
27-04-2006, 22:27
Good BvC's do not tele ww hammerdins, good BvC's use Fortitude and wait for your offense. I guess you've either not dueled any BvC's or have just dueled travi/mf barbs.
Ey yo Olba ur travi wolf is actually good :PP
And rly Ed is damn good at desynch, i find it damn hard to predict where he'll charge, sometimes he kills me sometimes i kill him though he wins more cuz he fckin improved >.< Im not as good as moro/luis/mcm etc tho... >.>
'Kay. In four hours my girlfriend's coming over and we're having a picnic on my bed, cause I can't go outside. Until then I'll be playing Halo 2 and watching for a silly comeback here. Oh, I also will be doing some of my calculus BC homework so when I get back I will have some free time in there. dont pretend you've got rl PLZ!11
Ey yo Olba ur travi wolf is actually good :PP
Nah, I'm too sucky, as I use general BvC strategies :D
And rly Ed is damn good at desynch, i find it damn hard to predict where he'll charge, sometimes he kills me sometimes i kill him though he wins more cuz he fckin improved >.< Im not as good as moro/luis/mcm etc tho... >.>
I'd say I'm about 55/45 with Ed, aka pretty damn close to equal. He's gotten too good at predicting to where I willww.
dont pretend you've got rl PLZ!11
He is a gosu liar :D
KaythonXE
27-04-2006, 22:55
Look, they're complimenting others. Why not go out on a date? At least it will be something social for you two.
RetroStar
28-04-2006, 00:15
k whisper me again when you want to reduel.
*star.
Romper Stomper
28-04-2006, 02:13
If you've watched mcm's BvC video, the hammerdin he duelled was clearly a newbie. That's the truth.
http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3439952
^^ Self proclaimed gg hammerdin losing 4-2 to barb.
KaythonXE
28-04-2006, 04:12
This weekend Retro. I'll probably get my hammerdin done by late saturday, if I can get the equipment. But I'll definately duel you with my zealot. I know I hit you a good 5 times before you hit me with him. But, HoTo did 400 pvm so. :(
http://thepiratebay.org/details.php?id=3439952
^^ Self proclaimed gg hammerdin losing 4-2 to barb.
Torrent is pretty inconvenient for most people. Maybe you can put them on youtube or google video?
Edit edit: I'm not good but I'd love to duel you guys after my uni exams with my hammerdin. Care for some tcp/ip games after the 18th of May?
mainaman
28-04-2006, 05:07
Torrent is pretty inconvenient for most people. Maybe you can put them on youtube or google video?
Edit edit: I'm not good but I'd love to duel you guys after my uni exams with my hammerdin. Care for some tcp/ip games after the 18th of May?
id assume this is one of the series here
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=423326&page=2
thie is downloadable you need divx only
and really i didnt see this hammerdin desynch ,but i might be wrong
KaythonXE
28-04-2006, 05:26
If thats the Mcm vs hammerdin we CLEARLY already said the guy was a noob.
mainaman
28-04-2006, 05:32
duel Romperstomper and after that we'll watch how "good" you are.
till than pls shut up as you are not interesting with your blabering ....
KaythonXE
28-04-2006, 05:38
How many times must I say this. No one is literate anymore. I WILL duel whoever wants to duel me. Just it has to be this weekend and it has to be in a PM. PM me about it. Or I'll forget.
blobswannabe
28-04-2006, 07:09
bvcs don't really dominate nearly as much as they used to 1.10 at least in us.west nl. Most of the casters in public dueling games have been replaced other bvcs,bvbs,hammerdins and smiters and zons. None are which are really ezpks for bvcs (zons usually team up with hammerdins. for example clan bbq,ghost,tofo,etc) It's much harder to 1 on 7 with a bvc then it was in 1.1.0.
A lot of people team up in public games these days and bvcs have a lot of trouble vs certain combinations.(for example hammer+ zon, barb + nec) However you can still dominate pubs 2on 6 if you get a zon or nec friend to pub duel wi ht you.
as for hammer vs bvc. As i've said before it's pretty even in gm duels espeically if the bvc uses widow maker but hammer has the upper hand in bm duels since bvcs can't kill hammers before they heal without taking extreme amount of risk. The best you can do is unsummon ww and hope you can kill them before they heal. But then again the bvc can just leap and run all day and it would be somewhat of a stalemate.
bvcs don't really dominate nearly as much as they used to 1.10 at least in us.west nl. Most of the casters in public dueling games have been replaced other bvcs,bvbs,hammerdins and smiters and zons. None are which are really ezpks for bvcs (zons usually team up with hammerdins. for example clan bbq,ghost,tofo,etc) It's much harder to 1 on 7 with a bvc then it was in 1.1.0.
Who actually volunteerly does a 1v7 in a public game? Also, I dunno about the changes of 1.10 and 1.11, as I hadn't played my BvC for long until the ladders reset (I had just gotten him the gear), so comparing anything to anything (L and NL, 1.10 and 1.11) is pretty hard for me, but at least on EUSCNL there are still plenty of sorcs/assas/druids.
A lot of people team up in public games these days and bvcs have a lot of trouble vs certain combinations.(for example hammer+ zon, barb + nec) However you can still dominate pubs 2on 6 if you get a zon or nec friend to pub duel wi ht you.
Once I entered into a pub game and I was supposed to duel 1v6 versus 2 hammerdins, a fc script javazon, es fb'er, a bvb and a boner. Didn't even try, as they were all spamming at the exit to blood moor, and without godly wealth it's pretty damn hard to duel versus many people with 1 setup (you want fcr versus sorcs/necs but you want ar versus hammerdins).
as for hammer vs bvc. As i've said before it's pretty even in gm duels espeically if the bvc uses widow maker but hammer has the upper hand in bm duels since bvcs can't kill hammers before they heal without taking extreme amount of risk. The best you can do is unsummon ww and hope you can kill them before they heal. But then again the bvc can just leap and run all day and it would be somewhat of a stalemate.
Well, in the end it depends pretty much from the hammerdin. If the hammerdin uses tele-hammer, he will pretty surely lose, but if he desynchs much and well, he's got a nice chance to win. As for BM, you're right about that, but then again, the hammerdin will end up no rejuvs quicker than the barb, as the barb has more life, or well, this too, depends on how the hammerdin plays. As for medi-using hammerdins, I don't even duel those anymore, cannot be bothered to duel someone who's got pretty much infinite amount of life (as I use forti versus hammerdins, means no tele-on-top).
Who actually volunteerly does a 1v7 in a public game? Also, I dunno about the changes of 1.10 and 1.11, as I hadn't played my BvC for long until the ladders reset (I had just gotten him the gear), so comparing anything to anything (L and NL, 1.10 and 1.11) is pretty hard for me, but at least on EUSCNL there are still plenty of sorcs/assas/druids.
Once I entered into a pub game and I was supposed to duel 1v6 versus 2 hammerdins, a fc script javazon, es fb'er, a bvb and a boner. Didn't even try, as they were all spamming at the exit to blood moor, and without godly wealth it's pretty damn hard to duel versus many people with 1 setup (you want fcr versus sorcs/necs but you want ar versus hammerdins).
Well, in the end it depends pretty much from the hammerdin. If the hammerdin uses tele-hammer, he will pretty surely lose, but if he desynchs much and well, he's got a nice chance to win. As for BM, you're right about that, but then again, the hammerdin will end up no rejuvs quicker than the barb, as the barb has more life, or well, this too, depends on how the hammerdin plays. As for medi-using hammerdins, I don't even duel those anymore, cannot be bothered to duel someone who's got pretty much infinite amount of life (as I use forti versus hammerdins, means no tele-on-top).
Yeah Ed is good with desync we had one practice duel and he caged me on a rock (stupid rock) in the way in a hammer field ^^
But this was the point i was coming to earlier i would say its very close to a 50/50 duel but the hammerdin will have to know desync to bring the odds to this term and possibly higher.
Other than this u can not expect a tele hammer to be feasible noway delayed namelock hammer yes but basic tele on top hammer no.
Also about the pubs hey u might as well try this odds i enter pubs with clans that fight like this i battled a 4 v 1 before i though i did well took down 3 guys there was 2x smiter, Windy, FB es Sorc. On hammer i managed to deal with the smiters, i kida got luck on a windy with some desync then i switch out to foh for the sorc and hammer, but sorc got me LOL my hp was kinda low from the windy.
You should give battle like this a try it really keeps u on ur toes. but some combinations do = no chance especially if they are spamming just out of town, the minute u leave u get hit with everything.
hmm using meditation must make life hard for a BvC but in my time dueling hammerdins i have not come across a pala using meditation and a fight like this i could imagine comes down to who gets whorn down first cuz logically the hammerdin will be able to out tank a barb anyway but with meditation this would make it worse.
Yeah Ed is good with desync we had one practice duel and he caged me on a rock (stupid rock) in the way in a hammer field ^^
But this was the point i was coming to earlier i would say its very close to a 50/50 duel but the hammerdin will have to know desync to bring the odds to this term and possibly higher.
Other than this u can not expect a tele hammer to be feasible noway delayed namelock hammer yes but basic tele on top hammer no.
Just why I keep saying BvC>Hammerdin. But if we take in account the godliest players, the it comes pretty close to equal, due to desynch.
Also about the pubs hey u might as well try this odds i enter pubs with clans that fight like this i battled a 4 v 1 before i though i did well took down 3 guys there was 2x smiter, Windy, FB es Sorc. On hammer i managed to deal with the smiters, i kida got luck on a windy with some desync then i switch out to foh for the sorc and hammer, but sorc got me LOL my hp was kinda low from the windy.
Gratz for surviving for so long :)
You should give battle like this a try it really keeps u on ur toes. but some combinations do = no chance especially if they are spamming just out of town, the minute u leave u get hit with everything.
Well, the team I was supposed to duel would've been impossible to win, as they all had high life (barb's bo), they had 2 ranged offenses (es fb sorc+boner), they had 2 defensive characters (hammerdins) and that 1 char which made it impossible for me to come on their screen (fc script javazon= super fast auto-hit fc=pretty much no chance unless tgod/forti). OFC I do duel 2v1 versus some crap teams like 2x light sorc or foher+light sorc, and such.
hmm using meditation must make life hard for a BvC but in my time dueling hammerdins i have not come across a pala using meditation and a fight like this i could imagine comes down to who gets whorn down first cuz logically the hammerdin will be able to out tank a barb anyway but with meditation this would make it worse.
Well, I know 2 such hammerdins on europe sc nl. Zaczku and Imperor_III. Or well, Zaczku's paladin is a mage but ... Well, I've not dueled Zaczku's Mage in a long time, though I think I could beat him. As for Imperor_III, only have dueled his smiter, on whom he uses marrow lifetap+medi-charge, and still loses to me. He lifetaps me right when I say g, attacks me, I beat him to low life, he charges away with meditation (even though he could just about as well try hitting me to regen huge amounts of life), and then I usually spammed GA's and when he stopped he ate ~20-30 GA's, which had already become invisible due to travelling a huge amount.
oooh fc script that would definetly be tough even if u maxed res and abs that u still would have had alot of problems and this would have reduced the odd vs the others.
i like Fc but script using is just low and as u probably know from script using u can tell when ppl use script as they can pull it off at such rapid rates and maintain a longer namelock even off screen.
oooh fc script that would definetly be tough even if u maxed res and abs that u still would have had alot of problems and this would have reduced the odd vs the others.
Well, FC script Javazons usually just use BB+BT for high dr and tank, so that gives them no tele, aka I can use tgod+fortitude, run to them, whirl them to death, usually. As for the ones with enigma, they are pretty much impossible to win, unless you have a 5 lo helm or something.
i like Fc but script using is just low and as u probably know from script using u can tell when ppl use script as they can pull it off at such rapid rates and maintain a longer namelock even off screen.
Well I beat ED's FC javazon with pub setup and also beat Goldwrap's friend's javazon when controlled by Goldwrap, with pubsetup also. As for how to recognize FC:
1) people screaming "hacker" "cheater" and dying to the amazon repeatedly.
2) off-screen FC (impossible legitly
3) high-speed FC
4) the amazon will fc you even if you almost next to her, which normal javazon's wouldn't do.
yeah i faced Zaczku's on ww/sin i could not beat him it was a long fight we had i think he gave me his account so we could duel privates i have it arround some where
Well, Zaczku's account is *zaczku IIRC. I tried to MSG him on b.net and I challenged his Mage paladin on d2jsp forums, but he never responded with anything by "my pala>>>>>>>>>> your ****ty barb" and he made silly claims such as "prebo and enchant are bm, but bo from cta is legit due to it being infinite", but with worse english of course. Also he claimed that stacking is BM, or CTC's are BM, and manapots BM too, but then, meditation was GM, anything that made him more dominant was GM.
Btw, Sicy, I think you should try learning to use copy-paste and the edit button.
Edit
I have heard before he uses a little med but i was not sure.
He uses Meditation whenever he gets to low life. He is a total moron, but believe it or not, he actually gave me my first ever anni, for free. After that I only met him like twice in a random pub game.
OT: God this topic is good for someone's post count btw.:thumbsup:
Yeah but vs a mage build u have to use some stack when i fought him i had to wear stack gear i mean Medi in my oppinion is bm. Cuz trying to tank a foh and hammer is not easy even with BvC hp.
versus a mage I use my default anti-foh gear, except no kiras, aka i got ~344 light res without fade,with fade 404, enough to negate almost anything (344-250-25=69, so unless they use foh-scep im pretty safe). But if needed I can also switch to kiras without losing anything but a little bit of AR and dmg/dex.
A mage will not possess any trouble unless he knows how to desynch and has a very strong foh. Otherwise they are just guidedspam+ww>them.
yeah i faced Zaczku's on ww/sin i could not beat him it was a long fight we had i think he gave me his account so we could duel privates i have it arround some where
Edit
I have heard before he uses a little med but i was not sure.
yeah lol i almost forgot about Edit :grin:
Yeah but vs a mage build u have to use some stack when i fought him i had to wear stack gear i mean Medi in my oppinion is bm. Cuz trying to tank a foh and hammer is not easy even with BvC hp.
KaythonXE
28-04-2006, 21:08
Well, the team I was supposed to duel would've been impossible to win, as they all had high life (barb's bo), they had 2 ranged offenses (es fb sorc+boner), they had 2 defensive characters (hammerdins) and that 1 char which made it impossible for me to come on their screen (fc script javazon= super fast auto-hit fc=pretty much no chance unless tgod/forti). OFC I do duel 2v1 versus some crap teams like 2x light sorc or foher+light sorc, and such.
I think with the right gear it would of put you in favor of winning. If you had enough res and absorb, you'd definately just heal each time the 'fast hitting, forever hitting' zon struck you. That's how I took out two smiters, and a fc zon 3v1. I don't think when you sfc you can see your opponents life. And when one smiter typed her to 'stop1' I zealed him to death. :D
I strictly play PvM, but I like to lurk in the PvP board, and since this morphed into a BvC ?> Hammerdin, I have a couple of comments:
1. Cost doesn't matter.
2. PvM doesn't matter.
3. Your life outside D2 doesn't matter.
4. Theory doesn't matter.
And, finally, the only way to really settle a question like this is have the top 10 or so BvCs and hammerdins battle it out. I don't know who's the best, but anybody who regularly duels (or watches duels) in the top of the D2 PvP community should be trusted over everybody else.
KaythonXE
30-04-2006, 04:02
I have my hammerdin spliced together, if anyone wants to duel message me in Game. *Kokoro(sj)
RetroStar
30-04-2006, 04:52
I have my hammerdin spliced together, if anyone wants to duel message me in Game. *Kokoro(sj)
sure. try whispering me too. cause my flist is full. :thumbsup:
useast nl
*star.
Thoridian
30-04-2006, 18:56
Look, they're complimenting others. Why not go out on a date? At least it will be something social for you two.
Ofc we do, because Olba is my sex slave.
Dueled luis? :o
Ofc we do, because Olba is my sex slave.
No I'm not, since I'm the superior, you are my slave. NOW GO GET ME THAT DAMN GLASS OF COLA YOU LAZY BUM!!!
Dueled luis? :o
A little something I'd also like to know. Also, beating some BvC 5-3 means nothing, IIRC we are talking about master-skill level ones. To claim the throne of Hammerdin>BvC you'd have to beat a BvC like luis 10-2. Until then, BvC>Hammerdin.
Ya ya, for some reason people are saying [for GM duels] Hdin > BvC or BvC > Hdin, but it's more around bvc = hdin. Obviously what matters is the skill level of either dueler, but yes, they're about even. I'm not sure how good Retrostar or luis [well, I have a better idea of how luis is] are, but I'm sure mike would probably change your mind.
Also, whoever it was that was saying 'oh, but the BvC has to switch gear in order to blah blah'. Yeah, that's true. A BvC specifically geared for 1v1 [not talking about absorb against ele] is difficult to kill. You can regear your own dueler to go against the BvC, but the effect isn't the same. A BvC is like a swiss army knife, just needs to switch a helm or rings and then you're set. Melee chars don't have the advantage that casters have, which is pretty much relying on +skills for damage and being able to run while causing that damage. Melee has to get close, and while getting close they take damage. You have to balance the damage you can cause with your durability.
Anyways, duel the three listed in this thread and let us how it goes. I'd tcp/ip you like mike is going to, but I don't have net at my house currently. :]
I figured that ping might be a serious issue for intercontinent tcp/ip games. I'm pinging 200 from someone from USEAST and that's not good. Anyone from Europe I can practise duelling with?
morotsjos
02-05-2006, 05:21
I figured that ping might be a serious issue for intercontinent tcp/ip games. I'm pinging 200 from someone from USEAST and that's not good. Anyone from Europe I can practise duelling with?
im always up for hammer vs barb. pm details.
morotsjos
02-05-2006, 05:25
Well, your hammerdin is a pretty damn good one, since you know what you're doing. Your hammerdin is not one of those tele-on-top-spam-hope-for-easy-kill-mf-hammerdins. And, you are correct, a skilless hammerdin=easy hammerdin. But, as you've shown me, a hammerdin doesn't necessarily need all that fancy gear to be good, whereas a BvC depends on both skill and gear, but skill more.
lies, ed is ezpk. just namelock tele ww.
lies, ed is ezpk. just namelock tele ww.
Lie more, please?
morotsjos
02-05-2006, 13:04
Lie more, please?
no need. ask him.
no need. ask him.
Says Morotsjos, The-One-Who-Triwhirls-Smiter-And-Everything-In-His-Way.
Imbecile
02-05-2006, 14:12
lies, ed is ezpk. just namelock tele ww.
Cry more vermin. Stop running into my hammerfields or go slit kknp ty :laugh:
morotsjos
02-05-2006, 14:24
Cry more vermin. Stop running into my hammerfields or go slit kknp ty :laugh:
want more duels? ^^
by the way; add me on msn you mongrel.
cp-sven@hotmail.com
morotsjos
02-05-2006, 14:25
Says Morotsjos, The-One-Who-Triwhirls-Smiter-And-Everything-In-His-Way.
actually i die to smiters lol =(
actually i die to smiters lol =(
Last time I saw you, you triwhirled a smiter in a pubgame to death :)
Btw, can I also add you? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE?:prop:
morotsjos
02-05-2006, 14:59
Last time I saw you, you triwhirled a smiter in a pubgame to death :)
Btw, can I also add you? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE?:prop:
n o .
n o .
WHY NOT PLX????!??!?!?! TAHT MAKORZ ME GOEDLI :oooo
Too bad. I could've had some nice chats :undecided:
lies, ed is ezpk. just namelock tele ww.
LoL :grin:
LoL :grin:
Another useless post to get xxxx posts and then look like you know something?
You spam.
Thoridian
02-05-2006, 20:32
Another useless post to get xxxx posts and then look like you know something?
You spam.
PLX
10characters
PLX
10characters
ROOOKIE!!! You shut up and stop spamming already. I'm the Wannabe-Anti-Spam-Police.
Thoridian
02-05-2006, 22:26
ROOOKIE!!! You shut up and stop spamming already. I'm the Wannabe-Anti-Spam-Police.
NO PLZ
n to find a way to beat chris's fcscript zon easy... without tgods ofc.
NO PLZ
n to find a way to beat chris's fcscript zon easy... without tgods ofc.
Good triwhirls will do. Also, I heard he is making a WWsin now. Whatever. I bet he will suck with it, as a wwsin depends on ping and skill, isn't exactly a "get good gear and own all" build. Chris seems to think that he can just be rich and own all with a certain build.
morotsjos
03-05-2006, 22:46
Good triwhirls will do. Also, I heard he is making a WWsin now. Whatever. I bet he will suck with it, as a wwsin depends on ping and skill, isn't exactly a "get good gear and own all" build. Chris seems to think that he can just be rich and own all with a certain build.
who the hell is chris? that 14-year old crybaby who begged for free itamz?
who the hell is chris? that 14-year old crybaby who begged for free itamz?
Mmm. Chris is the 14-year old crybaby who spammed you to teach him how to play a BvC. He admit that he has an obsession of owning me, which I find ridiculous, as I'm pretty trashy. Also, he keeps changing characters once in a week, thus he sucks on every character. And now he thinks he will own with a WWsin. I cannot wait to slay him, which I _will_ so as soon as my anime downloads are finished and I have free time for it. :smiley: .
Thoridian
03-05-2006, 23:11
Mmm. Chris is the 14-year old crybaby who spammed you to teach him how to play a BvC. He admit that he has an obsession of owning me, which I find ridiculous, as I'm pretty trashy. Also, he keeps changing characters once in a week, thus he sucks on every character. And now he thinks he will own with a WWsin. I cannot wait to slay him, which I _will_ so as soon as my anime downloads are finished and I have free time for it. :smiley: .
WORD
A good wwsin is even harder to play than a BvC barb, and Chris sucked at BvC >.>
WORD
A good wwsin is even harder to play than a BvC barb, and Chris sucked at BvC >.>
Yea. Also, I remember how he said that he will get good with a BvC, but he changed char in a week due to dying too much due to sucking. He was also calling me to beat up people and I never partied with him because he died too much. Also Chris has no manners in pub games. I sometimes wanna gather myself, Mat and Karol and PK him :smiley:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.