some ww questions

[fledgeling]

ok I know there is this website, I read it but forgot some of the things and some werent mentioned

1.ADDED weapon speed does not count in ww in classic? 40ias BH = same number of hits like 0IAS BH?

2.How many hits actually hit? 10? 20? (considering 100%ar!)
depending on weapon range

3.why are martels so popular? they are the easiest to find? max min dmg?

4.range martel<scythe=exec<pike?

5.dual weapons:
does IAS of 1 weapon help? (like in frenzy)
do you get twice as much hits? (so you attack 40 times instead of 20)
or the hits are combined:
"you hit - so you hit with weapon A and weapon B"
"you miss - so you miss with weapon A and weapon B"

or

you hit/miss with weapon A
you hit/miss with weapon B

Ive never seen dual weapon barbs (ok, seen few dual 185max dmg BH barbs)
Usually they use a swordback
so they suck? why?

6.shield works while ww (Im like 99,9999% sure it does)

7.is there any way to stop a namelock ww - your opponent runs away while you chase him with slow ww speed - every so often he can hit you with an orb etc


bonus:
how to farcast
step by step

[fredsta54]

ok I know there is this website, I read it but forgot some of the things and some werent mentioned

1.ADDED weapon speed does not count in ww in classic? 40ias BH = same number of hits like 0IAS BH?

2.How many hits actually hit? 10? 20? (considering 100%ar!)
depending on weapon range

3.why are martels so popular? they are the easiest to find? max min dmg?

4.range martel<scythe=exec<pike?

5.dual weapons:
does IAS of 1 weapon help? (like in frenzy)
do you get twice as much hits? (so you attack 40 times instead of 20)
or the hits are combined:
"you hit - so you hit with weapon A and weapon B"
"you miss - so you miss with weapon A and weapon B"

or

you hit/miss with weapon A
you hit/miss with weapon B

Ive never seen dual weapon barbs (ok, seen few dual 185max dmg BH barbs)
Usually they use a swordback
so they suck? why?

6.shield works while ww (Im like 99,9999% sure it does)

7.is there any way to stop a namelock ww - your opponent runs away while you chase him with slow ww speed - every so often he can hit you with an orb etc


bonus:
how to farcast
step by step

not going in order but...

dual wielding with ww results in 50% more hits

yes you block while wwing

ias doesnt mean anything in classic ww

Lower range weapons hit more freuqently with ww, assuming you directly ww the target (although, higher range can hit more if they dodge you)

Marts are so popular due to the highest avg dmg of all weapons, no dex req, and a better %ed per pnt to str than other wepns (1.1% ed per str pnt, as opposed to 1%)

You havent seen many dual wield barbs because they are inferior to 2h barbs. Their still sexy tho

Check my pvp javazon guide for how to farcast







Fred

[Tetsume]

Lower range weapons hit more freuqently with ww, assuming you directly ww the target (although, higher range can hit more if they dodge you)



I hate to bring back the not-so-ugly past, but this inaccurate. There is no hard evidence in favor of this standing, while the other faction has IMMENSE data and tests to prove their side.

The rest of the info Fred gave is correct.

[Kevin William Cox]

I hate to bring back the not-so-ugly past, but this inaccurate. There is no hard evidence in favor of this standing, while the other faction has IMMENSE data and tests to prove their side.

The rest of the info Fred gave is correct.



Well, before the mud starts flying, let's just let Fledgeling make up his own mind. He's been around long enough to have seen that thread, so let him believe what he wishes. That way, nobody else gets a whooping with the "Legendary Twig".:tongue:





Kev

[hiroshimana]

i won once by range...my only time, i and a bvb ww in same direction but we were a bit far and i didnt got dmg but he actually did and died....that IMHO proves that range does work out...

[Tetsume]

Well, before the mud starts flying, let's just let Fledgeling make up his own mind. He's been around long enough to have seen that thread, so let him believe what he wishes. That way, nobody else gets a whooping with the "Legendary Twig".:tongue:
Kev


I am letting him draw his own conclusions, in fact, I am facilitating the process by giving him the whole story, if you will. By whole story, I mean that WL had done his tests, and provided information and results to prove his side(that lower range does NOT hit more often), and that Fred/Kev/Beltyn have not. That is all. Enough of this foolishness.

Oh, one more thing, apparently he wasn't clear on the whole issue, as shown here:
1.ADDED weapon speed does not count in ww in classic? 40ias BH = same number of hits like 0IAS BH?

2.How many hits actually hit? 10? 20? (considering 100%ar!)
depending on weapon range



i won once by range...my only time, i and a bvb ww in same direction but we were a bit far and i didnt got dmg but he actually did and died....that IMHO proves that range does work out...

B.net is way too laggy of an arena to draw any logical conclusions from that. But yes, it is, in theory, possible to range bh barbs, just unlikely due to lag.

[HardkoreHarry]

1.ADDED weapon speed does not count in ww in classic? 40ias BH = same number of hits like 0IAS BH?
correct.


2.How many hits actually hit? 10? 20? (considering 100%ar!)
depending on weapon range
Not sure what you are trying to say here. But assuming you mean how many hits will a ww land on a stationary target, then I don't know, but longer range weapons will hit more than lower range weapons.


3.why are martels so popular? they are the easiest to find? max min dmg?

highest dmg. Also no dex requirement.


4.range martel<scythe=exec<pike?

martel = range 3
scythe = range 2 (if you mean grim scythe, then they are range 5)
exec = range 3
pike = range 5


5.dual weapons:
does IAS of 1 weapon help? (like in frenzy)
do you get twice as much hits? (so you attack 40 times instead of 20)
or the hits are combined:
"you hit - so you hit with weapon A and weapon B"
"you miss - so you miss with weapon A and weapon B"

If you are talking about frenzy, then yes, ias on 1 weapon will help.


Ive never seen dual weapon barbs (ok, seen few dual 185max dmg BH barbs)
Usually they use a swordback
so they suck? why?

For bvb you need a shield, for bv anything else you probably want a high dmg 2 hand weapon.


6.shield works while ww (Im like 99,9999% sure it does)

yup.


7.is there any way to stop a namelock ww - your opponent runs away while you chase him with slow ww speed - every so often he can hit you with an orb etc

Either ww into the other char or the other char goes somewhere that you cant follow (town, into a house and tele out the back, etc.)


bonus:
how to farcast
step by step
Search for a post by speedlander. He explains it pretty well.

[Zodijackyl]

This thread looks like it's going to hell.

If it isn't stopped soon some people will be banned... or rebanned.

[HardkoreHarry]

This thread looks like it's going to hell.

If it isn't stopped soon some people will be banned... or rebanned.

Why is the thread going to hell? Because people are trying to answer the guy's questions? And what has happened here that would constitute a ban? Basically, what in the hell are you talking about?

[Kevin William Cox]

Guy asks a question, two people have answered, two different opinions. Looks like a decent thread to me.




Kev

[HardkoreHarry]

Guy asks a question, two people have answered, two different opinions. Looks like a decent thread to me.




Kev


Exactly. Everyone has tried to help to the best of their knowledge. Also, everyone has managed to remained civil while doing so. I don't see any problems here.

[Palm]

In classic ww is at max speed by default.

[HardkoreHarry]

In classic ww is at max speed by default.


Surprisingly, you are in the minority in this sub-forum. Nearly all the regulars of the classic forum seem to think that ww attack frequency is dependant on weapon range. Where they got this notion, I have no idea, both because they have never provided sources for their claims (even when asked to) and that everything that I have ever seen has shown otherwise.

The only people (past or present members) in the classic forum that seem to be aware of this fact are me, WL, Zoola, and Tetsume. Not to mention RTB and Orphan, but apparently their word doesn't mean anything to some people, as rediculous as the notion may seem.

[Kiwi Legend]

In classic ww is at max speed by default.

I think he ment IAS doesnt effect ww speed. Which is true

[HardkoreHarry]

I think he meant any weapon will function at 4 fpa. Which is true.

[Palm]

Yea I think both those statements are true. WW at max speed is one of the percs classic players get because we have much inferior items. In xpack they need IAS to affect WW, block to be dependant on dex, etc, to balance out the overpowered items. I don't think range affects hit frequency (wouldn't make sense), it just looks that way because the smaller the range the tighter the grouping of the hits.

[Akukami]

This thread looks like it's going to hell.

If it isn't stopped soon some people will be banned... or rebanned.

I think rebanned is more like it. :grin:

Btw, I thought we had this discussion already. There should be a locked thread somewhere that talks about all of this attack crap and whatnot, and just for the record, that one ended up with WL and Zoola being banned for good.

To all of you, unless you feel your pride taking a huge blow, who cares who's right or not? And if you did feel like your pride was at stake, then do yourselves a favor and stop playing D2 for a while.

Seriously, it's a freakin' game. Keep it as it should be.

- Akukami

[fredsta54]

I think he meant any weapon will function at 4 fpa. Which is true.

I am well aware that all weapons function at 4 fpa. I agree with you guys on everything, other than the fact that ww can hit targets/groups of monsters diffirently, depending on the range. Somtimes range 5 is better, sometimes range 1. Theirs no proof about it, but based on playing the game and trying things out for myself... i have to stick behind what i beleive is true.

I will stop posting in this thread unless it reverts back to the original topic


Fred

[zrk]

Id just like to point one thing out. If you are moving more slowly (that is, you dont have any frw from items or you are under cold effect) you will hit your target more times than you would hit if you were faster.

[HardkoreHarry]

and just for the record, that one ended up with WL and Zoola being banned for good.
- Akukami
ROFL. That isn't the record at all. That is not what happened.

Just for the complete and true (truth?? ZOGM!! NO!!!) record, the thread ended up with WL and Fred receiving identical temp bans, and Zoola getting a perm ban.

When that thread was closed, WL was not perm banned. His actions after that was what he got perm banned for.

Also, it wasn't really much of a discussion. There was the one side citing references and conducting tests and there was the other side doing . . . . . . . well I'm not sure what you guys were doing, but it wasn't anything to support your claims.



I am well aware that all weapons function at 4 fpa.


This is not what you were saying before. Before you were saying that shorter range weapons attack at a higher rate than longer range weapons.

[fredsta54]

This is not what you were saying before. Before you were saying that shorter range weapons attack at a higher rate than longer range weapons.


It is what i was saying before. Shorter range weapons do attack at a higher rate than longer range, but they are both 4 fpa. Its kinda hard to explain, but if you go into a game and see, more noticably pvm, you will know what im talking about. Hell, make an pvm barb with an mart and a pvm barb with an lance, both with the same avg dmg, and see which kills noticably faster (compare effectiveness vs groups and single tough targets, and even the animation hints it







Fred

[Dacar92]

Drop the subject about what happened. NOW! I know who is who, here.

I have no patience for this. I will delete all posts and threads about this if it continues.

EDIT: I am also going to ban an account or two for being returned banees.

[Shademehr]

It is what i was saying before. Shorter range weapons do attack at a higher rate than longer range

Let me first make sure I have this correct, Fred, before I make a comment. You're saying that short range weapons hit more with ww and have verfied this in mobs of monsters in PvM?

I have a theory about that: When you are ww'ing you are dividing x number of attacks out per second amongst the enemies in your weapon range. (I think 4 frames is 6.2 attks per second).

So if you have a range 1 weapon and u have 4 monsters at range 1, 3 at range 2, and 5 at range 3, then you are dividing 6.2 attks/sec amongst the four at range 1.

If you have a range 4 weapon, then you are dividing 6.2 attks/sec amongst 12 monsters.

I hope that makes a little bit of sense...

[/end theory]

I must say, there are a LOT of people dancing on eggshells in this subforum (maybe all of dii.net?). I don't remember it being like this. Everyone throws around the "B" word (ban) for some pretty insignificant offenses. It must be tough work on the mods around here.

[Kevin William Cox]

It's a long story Shademehr. More than I care to get into. Suffice to say there are two opininons on the matter. This subject is an old dead horse that has been beaten to death and then some. The bannings are far from insignificant though. Necessary, might be a better word. But not for things that were said just in this thread, but as a whole on other things that were done. You got one thing right though, it's gotta be hard on the mods.




Kev