smiter killer

[Bobofet]

i am looking for a good melee build that will kill a paladin smiter. they seem to be the best and i am determined to find a way to dominate them.

[Phyrexial]

WW barb is probably the best melee class suited to killing smiters.

[Bobofet]

what about a werebear paladin?

[sorceressgod]

hammerdin is good imho.. max blocked, 125 fcr, 12k hammer.

[RetroStar]

another smiter? or a foher.

[SicHalo]

Yeah i a smiter build that is a anti smiter can work.

WW barb is another good choice.

A hammerdin will also give you the edge in this fight

Foh i dont think will work too well though cuz a smiter will simply charge smite u or res stack/ abs u.

[OCAU_MIKLE]

WW barb is your best bet. BvC with max DR to be percise.

- mikle

[mainaman]

WW barb is your best bet. BvC with max DR to be percise.

- mikle
dont even need max dr if you do the right ww the smiter will barely touch you

[zeiris]

An anti-smite smiter with holy freeze and max slow could be funny :)

[RetroStar]

A WW barb will actually require some skills/gear to beat a well built smiter.

A foh can desync and charge around.. most smiters are built for melee duels anyway.

[Romper Stomper]

WW w/ 25k+ AR > Smite, all day, every day.

[Bobofet]

i think the main thing to worry about is that smite stuns you, doesn't it? so all he needs to do it hit you once and the rest is cake

[SicHalo]

i think the main thing to worry about is that smite stuns you, doesn't it? so all he needs to do it hit you once and the rest is cake

no smite does not stun with the initial attack but if another attack hit u while u have the squiggly thing above ur head, i.e trap etc then it can stun.

Also some attacks are uniteruptable Whirlwind is one so even if the smiter does hit the barb can still keep on going with Whirlwind.

[CodyIsHoid]

A multishot bowazon with an upped perfect goldstrike with a 40/15 jewel in it could proabably take him

Hoid

[PhatTrumpet]

A multishot bowazon with an upped perfect goldstrike with a 40/15 jewel in it could proabably take him

Hoid
I believe you forgot the /sarcasm tag in your post.

[Phyrexial]

hammerdin is good imho.. max blocked, 125 fcr, 12k hammer.
He's looking for a "MELEE" build if you guys failed to read that part of this post.

[Bobofet]

wow i guess wwbarb it is then. it seems to me that almost everybody picks smiters, which is the main reason i don't like them. Also my friend supposedly has a top dueler, which is a smiter. thnx you guys for the help. i also like the holy freeze idea though im sure it wont work as well :)

[Speederländer]

Properly designed and equipped ww-sins have an equal chance against smiters as do ww barbs. Claw block blocks smites, they can get 25K AR, and the right mix of poison damage, crushing blow, open wounds, magic damage and physical damage is very effective. Also, fade reduces life tap curse duration to just a few seconds, which can be a very big deal.

[kingdryland]

Properly designed and equipped ww-sins have an equal chance against smiters as do ww barbs. Claw block blocks smites, they can get 25K AR, and the right mix of poison damage, crushing blow, open wounds, magic damage and physical damage is very effective. Also, fade reduces life tap curse duration to just a few seconds, which can be a very big deal.

Claws can go up to range two though,which means a zerk grief smiter will range the assassin...And while claw block is handy,it will rarely be above 60%.

[Speederländer]

Claws can go up to range two though,which means a zerk grief smiter will range the assassin...And while claw block is handy,it will rarely be above 60%.

This is why you whirl glancing blows on the smiter and in general whirl CORRECTLY. A bit of KB doesn't hurt either. You have a ranged attack in MB to get them to move if they try to shift-smite. And 60% block vs. the barbs zero block is a big deal. Claw block blocks smite, barbs cannot do this. Additionally, high level thorns from bramble DOES cause decent damage against grief powered smite, and it causes this damage even when you block the smite.

[moonlike]

y but barb has alot more life and dmg+range imo assasin is worse vs smiters

[NewForumBloke]

A good ww sin with high venom dmg and high % chance of ow will do just as well as a ww baba imo, quite possibly if its a fully decked ww sin, better.

-BLoke :smug:

[moonlike]

ow is not an argument coz barb has it too
psn heh lol every smiter should know that he needs max resists and most of them in pubs dont have maxed, thats why they seem to be easy
nothing comperes to forti grief+beast ^^ barb.
what will happen when smiter decide to use death gloves(or antidotes), ur assa is just a weak mini barb with less ar, thorns dont do so much after pvp penalty dr and etc

i fought with 5k++life smiters with max dr trust me hf flashing to slow ur ww and well played smiter will devastete ur assa

[Archedgar]

I don't play barbs really... but if range is such a big deal when dueling a smiter, how come people don't use a lance or a polearm in order to outrange smiters?

It seems to me that a polearm/lance barb is a pretty direct counter to it, considering that smites biggest advantage is the fact that it can ignore block...

[moonlike]

not enough hits ,ow, cb, mods, fana.....

[Speederländer]

y but barb has alot more life and dmg+range imo assasin is worse vs smiters

The assassin blocks 60% of the smiters attacks. This offsets the life advantage of the barb.

The range has never been an issue for my ww sin. It's only an issue for people who insist on their triangular whirls.

Again, if you factor in venom damage, magic damage, open wounds, physical damage, and crushing blow, the damage ends up being comparable. The barb will have higher full on damage, but ww-sins don't have to duel just like barbs. If a barb beats a smiter in 30 seconds and I beat that smiter in 45 seconds, we both still won.

Finally, life tap will very often allow a mediocre pally to stand up to a good barb. One hit while tapped = full life globe. With my assassin those tap curses only last about 3 seconds or less.

[Speederländer]

what will happen when smiter decide to use...or antidotes...
Well, if they are using antidotes, they will likely have no problem using rejuvs and life pots as well. Combine with life tap and your barb is just as useless. Thanks. :thumbsup:

ur assa is just a weak mini barb with less ar, thorns dont do so much after pvp penalty dr and etc
My assassin has 25K AR on her ww. Your barb beats that significantly?
Thorns is not insignificant. It adds enough damage to be a real source. WW sins accumulate damage differently that barbs.

i fought with 5k++life smiters with max dr trust me hf flashing to slow ur ww and well played smiter will devastete ur assa
I fight those smiters and get holy freezed as well, I'm not devastated by them.

[kingdryland]

Barbs usually clip smiters,even when they share the same range. That is not possible for assassins by the way, do you fight zerk smiters or phase blade smiters?

[kingdryland]

I don't play barbs really... but if range is such a big deal when dueling a smiter, how come people don't use a lance or a polearm in order to outrange smiters?

It seems to me that a polearm/lance barb is a pretty direct counter to it, considering that smites biggest advantage is the fact that it can ignore block...

These barbs have great range but much slower attack than grief/beast using barbs, and less ar (lack of fanaticism).

[RetroStar]

5k smiter isn't even possible unless you don't go with block. even with non block you'll need perfect gear.

[Speederländer]

Barbs usually clip smiters,even when they share the same range. That is not possible for assassins by the way, do you fight zerk smiters or phase blade smiters?

Of course clipping is possible for assassins. I do it all the time. You're making your judgment just by comparing numbers and saying it can't work. The reality of dueling is that well timed direction changes by the assassin, when the pally is closing, allows you to clip them before they can smite. This works because of the timing difference. They have to stop and smite. You only have to change direction. It does work.

[Valvolux]

Agreed, whirlwind beats smite, due to whirlwinds mechanics.

[hardnfast]

I fight those smiters and get holy freezed as well, I'm not devastated by them.

I was of the understanding that holy freeze vs a ww barb was a very bad idea as the ww'ing barb stays in range for longer?

[Valvolux]

I was of the understanding that holy freeze vs a ww barb was a very bad idea as the ww'ing barb stays in range for longer?

Yeah, Holy Freeze is Whirlwinds friend.

Best of luck to any smiter beating a dual 'Doom' + clegs whirlwind barb, ain't gonna happen.

[MegaFlame]

WW barb can lose to smiters if you ask me, many have their own arguments since smiters are nasty too in their own way so I'd say 50/50 for a smiter vs ww barb duel. But a liberator is a totally different story. 9k hammer, 12k desyning charge, just sick. The smiters can't even track you before eating hammers for lunch.

[moonlike]

I was of the understanding that holy freeze vs a ww barb was a very bad idea as the ww'ing barb stays in range for longer?

ww barbs maybe yes but no for ww sin smiter just can sit in her ww and u willl die fast if u dont get out from his smites fast

[moonlike]

Well, if they are using antidotes, they will likely have no problem using rejuvs and life pots as well. Combine with life tap and your barb is just as useless. Thanks. :thumbsup:


My assassin has 25K AR on her ww. Your barb beats that significantly?
Thorns is not insignificant. It adds enough damage to be a real source. WW sins accumulate damage differently that barbs.


I fight those smiters and get holy freezed as well, I'm not devastated by them.

pls dont compere antidoutes to rejuv its undetectable besides what with death gloves, i can win even with lt on my barb its not useless, smiters just need that to stand a normal fight

25 ar ? with rare fools mode claw or u just have good;y items barb with such goodly items would have even more ar

i dont say assasin cant kill smiters i just think barb do it better

for this all who tell smiters>ww barb play some time game and find good barbs, winning with ik barbs means nothing , i fought many smiters who thought smiters > barbs and after duel with me (last i dueled such a smiter lost 12:0) thay change mind and im a average bvc with mediocore items

[kingdryland]

Of course clipping is possible for assassins. I do it all the time. You're making your judgment just by comparing numbers and saying it can't work. The reality of dueling is that well timed direction changes by the assassin, when the pally is closing, allows you to clip them before they can smite. This works because of the timing difference. They have to stop and smite. You only have to change direction. It does work.

I won't just compare numbers,it comes from experience too with smiters,zealots,ww assassins and barbs. A R3 barb can change direction the moment he enters in smite range and avoid a hit,an assassin can't do that,has to be well in smite range ,if the smiter uses a zerk. If the smiter uses a phase blade all the barb/smiter rules for clipping apply of course. And of course,I'll point it again,imo Zealot > ww assa,even for the same range.

[moonlike]

I won't just compare numbers,it comes from experience too with smiters,zealots,ww assassins and barbs. A R3 barb can change direction the moment he enters in smite range and avoid a hit,an assassin can't do that,has to be well in smite range ,if the smiter uses a zerk. If the smiter uses a phase blade all the barb/smiter rules for clipping apply of course. And of course,I'll point it again,imo Zealot > ww assa,even for the same range.

yes even koda admitted that goodliest smiters will beat u

[moonlike]

5k smiter isn't even possible unless you don't go with block. even with non block you'll need perfect gear.

i asked him he told me that he has max block and 128 overall dex if u wish i coud ask him about all items

[SicHalo]

Barbs usually clip smiters,even when they share the same range. That is not possible for assassins by the way, do you fight zerk smiters or phase blade smiters?

cliping does work plus the ba smiters are not a problem? why because the dissadvantage of using the Ba over pb is speed.

and clipping still works even if the smiter was to use a ba or pb vs the barb and assa.

This is why i would say 90% pure smiters even v.ts use pb.

but then again im a WW/trapper so i still have the advantages of a trap hitting while still using WW.

nah a WW barb vs A smiter is not 50/50

if u know how to ww properly there is not much a smiter can do.

Also no one factered in that clawblock can still block smite so if the assa is ww properly u will win.

But overall i would still put the barb as a better choice for this fight simply cuz u can dish out higher dmg better use of clipping higher life etc.

EDIT

LOL this is almost going back to that smiter thread in the pala forum where all i saw was ppl looking at a few numbers on paper then claiming wot is supperior.

How many times do i have to say this, experience it first do testing but don't just relly on theory.

[mainaman]

ppl use pb grief because they are too cheap to repeir, and seconfd because they actually have no idea about weapon rangem and so on (only probably 1/3 of the duelers out there are aware of those things)
as for the zerk it can reach last break point with the appropriate items.

[SicHalo]

ppl use pb grief because they are too cheap to repeir, and seconfd because they actually have no idea about weapon rangem and so on (only probably 1/3 of the duelers out there are aware of those things)
as for the zerk it can reach last break point with the appropriate items.

correct but still not fast enough if barb was using the clegs+ doom combination

As ba simply is not fast enough and you would need alot of gear ias to get the smiter back to the 6fps smite mark.

where as pb reaches this mark without fana or just 1 point fana and against a clegs + doom opposition will still meet the 6 fps smite with little to no gear change.

[nickedoff]

My friend's done an FOH/Blessed Hammer/Doom paladin just for killing smiters.

[kingdryland]

and clipping still works even if the smiter was to use a ba or pb vs the barb and assa.


Again,how can you clip when you lose the range? We are not talking about axe barb vs axe smiter,but claw sin vs axe smiter here. I know that good assassins can beat phase smiters , try that to zerk ones.

[mainaman]

correct but still not fast enough if barb was using the clegs+ doom combination

As ba simply is not fast enough and you would need alot of gear ias to get the smiter back to the 6fps smite mark.

where as pb reaches this mark without fana or just 1 point fana and against a clegs + doom opposition will still meet the 6 fps smite with little to no gear change.
you dont need any kind of slow to beat most of the smiters with a ww barb.
you might need to flash with doom the best ones but they are not many of them out there, usually max dr will do just fine. I dont even bother to put on dr and use my caster set up to deal with them.

[SicHalo]

you dont need any kind of slow to beat most of the smiters with a ww barb.
you might need to flash with doom the best ones but they are not many of them out there, usually max dr will do just fine. I dont even bother to put on dr and use my caster set up to deal with them.

i know in general u dont need slow but if a barb was to use slow gear a ba smiter would be put in serious problems.

Again this is another reason why ppl use pb smite.

@ kingdryland as said 80% of smiters use pb and yes i have though 1 using Ba but it did not make much difference in the outcome in the duel i hand.

its a fact u can still clip if both are using the same ranges however ba vs claw maybe different as the range advantage is to the BA. This is possibly something that needs to be tested.

but even so the ba smiter i faced, ok i took more dmg than normal but its still was not good enough as 60% claw block will still give you a hard time.

[sorceressgod]

best way to kill a smiter with a melee char is probably a doom/grief BvC. or dual dooms? :D

[mainaman]

best way to kill a smiter with a melee char is probably a doom/grief BvC. or dual dooms? :D
grief+beast

[Speederländer]

ww barbs maybe yes but no for ww sin smiter just can sit in her ww and u willl die fast if u dont get out from his smites fast

Knockback prevents any pally from just sitting in whirls.

[Speederländer]

yes even koda admitted that goodliest smiters will beat u
Koda played a ghost. A pure ghost has little to no chance against good smiters. Their damage is too low.

[Speederländer]

Again,how can you clip when you lose the range?

Again, you are just comparing numbers. The actual physics of real dueling ends up with more than just a basic range comparison. Simple direction changes happen faster than moving forward into range, stopping, and attacking. Additionally, you continue to ignore the impact of 60% block vs. smite, stunning, the almost inability to keep life tap up, etc.

If range was all that mattered, then lance barbs would own all smiters. But lance barbs die like dogs to smiters. Saying smiter range is greater than whirl range, therefore whirl can't do tactic X is incorrect.

[Speederländer]

25 ar ? with rare fools mode claw or u just have good;y items barb with such goodly items would have even more ar

A fools mod claw isn't considered a "godly item". Any decent ww sin keeps a fools mod claw for high defense opponents. I'm not talking some 500 damage eth 400%+ ed claw. And point is, a ww sin can hit just as well as a barb, at least within a few %, assuming the sin is properly equipped.

[nalchik]

I've seen good WW assasins that wiped out ALOT of smiters . With high AR with CoS they drop their life to 0 in no time. The drawback - expencive gear.

[moonlike]

A fools mod claw isn't considered a "godly item". Any decent ww sin keeps a fools mod claw for high defense opponents. I'm not talking some 500 damage eth 400%+ ed claw. And point is, a ww sin can hit just as well as a barb, at least within a few %, assuming the sin is properly equipped.


yep but then the argument with ow dont work coz barb has the same ow or more

and u keep reminding about block but ww sin has so much lower life than barb that they are equal, and when smiter hit u ow will do much more dmg to ur total life

and for fools claw i sold one for 8hr on EUladder which i think is goodly bc my barb and few other chars are equiped thx to that trade
btw that ar goes to only this claw which has foolsthat means u hit with crappy dmg claw with low ow and that dont compere to grief+beast barb imo which both have 25++ar and insane dmg comperd to ww sin with mainly poison and ow(which is nerfed bc of high life palas), im just curious what happens if smiter will use irathas amy or death gloves

[kingdryland]

Again, you are just comparing numbers. The actual physics of real dueling ends up with more than just a basic range comparison. Simple direction changes happen faster than moving forward into range, stopping, and attacking. Additionally, you continue to ignore the impact of 60% block vs. smite, stunning, the almost inability to keep life tap up, etc.
.

Basic of clipping is to hit without getting hit. You either don't get it or don't want to reply.Do you fight zerk smiters or phase smiters? Lance barbs have lower ar,lower attack speed and even lower damage (lack of fanaticism), and certainly lower damage over time (attack included). These are the main reasons they fail vs smiters,since they can desynch/tele in range with much less danger vs a slower attack
.As for claws ,range does matter and I'm talking from experience,not numbers. If the smiter is using zerk,whether you want it or not,whether you change direction or not,there are gonna be times that he is gonna be in range and you are not. Axe barbs get in mutual range,strike and get off range before smite can land. You have to remain longer time in range.

[Speederländer]

Basic of clipping is to hit without getting hit.
No, really?

You either don't get it or don't want to reply.Do you fight zerk smiters or phase smiters?
Your question is ridiculous. Anyone who duels regularly fights ALL TYPES of pallys. I've dueled both many times. What could possibly make you think I only ever duel one type?

Lance barbs have lower ar,lower attack speed and even lower damage (lack of fanaticism), and certainly lower damage over time (attack included). These are the main reasons they fail vs smiters,since they can desynch/tele in range with much less danger vs a slower attack
Which is exactly my point. There is a lot more at work than just RANGE. Yet it is range you keep pointing to in post after post.

.As for claws ,range does matter and I'm talking from experience,not numbers.
I never said range doesn't matter. I simply said it's not the ONLY factor. It's not the ONLY factor in successful clipping and it's not the ONLY factor in the duel generally.

If the smiter is using zerk,whether you want it or not,whether you change direction or not,there are gonna be times that he is gonna be in range and you are not.
Just like the barb WILL BE IN RANGE at times. Unless you are putting forward the perfect whirling barb as the typical dueler?

Axe barbs get in mutual range,strike and get off range before smite can land. You have to remain longer time in range.
I don't claim that barbs won't have a generally easier time of clipping. But your claim that sins CANNOT EFFECTIVELY CLIP is wrong. How do I know it's wrong? Because I clip pallys all the time. The key is that barbs clip offensively, whereas sins have to clip more defensively, getting the pally to be offensive with traps and MB.

[SicHalo]

yep but then the argument with ow dont work coz barb has the same ow or more

and u keep reminding about block but ww sin has so much lower life than barb that they are equal, and when smiter hit u ow will do much more dmg to ur total life

and for fools claw i sold one for 8hr on EUladder which i think is goodly bc my barb and few other chars are equiped thx to that trade
btw that ar goes to only this claw which has foolsthat means u hit with crappy dmg claw with low ow and that dont compere to grief+beast barb imo which both have 25++ar and insane dmg comperd to ww sin with mainly poison and ow(which is nerfed bc of high life palas), im just curious what happens if smiter will use irathas amy or death gloves

wrong cuz the ar is averaged out through WW that why u only see one ww ar amount even though there is 2 weaps.

Also whats with this life problem?

A good anti mele ww assa setup can hit 3.5k - 4k life

And no the dmg is not nerfed at all.

If the pala does not pop antidotes and does not use PLR gear i.e the death glove etc then it wont make much difference when u hit u will kill fast.

A smiter breaking 5k life is rare and i still cant see how this is possible with maxblock and perfect gear.

[SicHalo]

A good example that range is not the biggest deciding factor is a pala that actually knows how to smite.

i.e i seen palas use tele smite and charge in the path of the ww and use smite effectivly or tele smite at the end of a WW pass.

this is still with range dissadvantage and as Speederländer pointed out this range advantage can be overcome easilly as u simply cant relly on shift+ smite vs a WW//Trapper if i see this technique i usally laydown traps and start mbing so standing stilll, shift+smiting does not work.

By doing this i force my opponment to either charge or rush me and go on the offesive as the advantages of a ww/trapper is the ability to duel at close quarters and turn it in to a ranged duel.

And most smiters end up charging so i use defensive barb type WWs and use a triangle style clipping.

[moonlike]

wrong cuz the ar is averaged out through WW that why u only see one ww ar amount even though there is 2 weaps.

Also whats with this life problem?

A good anti mele ww assa setup can hit 3.5k - 4k life

And no the dmg is not nerfed at all.

If the pala does not pop antidotes and does not use PLR gear i.e the death glove etc then it wont make much difference when u hit u will kill fast.

A smiter breaking 5k life is rare and i still cant see how this is possible with maxblock and perfect gear.

why not use death gloves,
nothing with life, just barb has it more.
barb has more ar
range also gives to barb adventage
the same ow or even more( u use fools claw remmember?)
insane dmg compered to ww sin
i just add i use sometimes long desync wws vs smiters when i lose much life coz of lag or bad ww and ive heard that ww sin cant desynch so much.

the best prove of that barb is better in melee duel u can see when ww sin face bvc

its just funny how everyone argue that poison dmg is so much better than pure phisical
first its slow 0,4 s its 10 fram u hit every 4 frame
second its easily nagated by this super cheap gloves
i admit ww sin>smiters but barb is just better in melee duels

[Bobofet]

wow, i ahve definately learned alot about ww barbs, sins and smiters. i am very new to pvp and these strategies will help a lot. is a ww sin more effective or is the barb more effective? also i though a werebear/minion necromancer might stand a good chance? what do you think?

[kingdryland]

I never said range doesn't matter. I simply said it's not the ONLY factor. It's not the ONLY factor in successful clipping and it's not the ONLY factor in the duel generally.


I never claimed that range is all that matters. If it was so,then barbs would be using any rare naga/knout to beat smiters. And yes,I have seen plenty of competent smiters tele/desynch in range. But since the clipping issue keeps appearing ,I need to point that there range DOES matter alot, and you seem to agree because you mention the defensive style/approach.



I don't claim that barbs won't have a generally easier time of clipping. But your claim that sins CANNOT EFFECTIVELY CLIP is wrong. How do I know it's wrong? Because I clip pallys all the time. The key is that barbs clip offensively, whereas sins have to clip more defensively, getting the pally to be offensive with traps and MB.

Where did I say that assassins generally can't clip? Even I mentioned that for phase smiters vs ww assassins same rules apply exactly like in the barb vs smiter scenario,take a look. By stating that barbs have easier time of clipping you seem to agree with what I say. In this case I suggest that the reason of easier clipping is exactly range.


Just like the barb WILL BE IN RANGE at times. Unless you are putting forward the perfect whirling barb as the typical dueler?

A barb can effectively stay totally out of range by clipping a smiter,that's my point here,(If I was misunderstood,my fault.) And I start to see this in pub games as well. An assassin that whirls in,block smite,hits with ww and whirls out is different case than a barb that whirls in hits and whirls out with smite missing because the barb has moved away. Technical issue?Yes,but that was my point from the beggining.

[SicHalo]

listen i use both a BvC and a WWSin/trapper and they are both anti caster type chars but with setup changes a WWsin can beat and stand a good chance vs a BvC.

And no i never once said Pysical dmg is better than poision or visa versa.

But still u have underestimated the venom.

In hell venom suffers a psn length penalty which looks like this; -100 PSL

wot this means is that it double the length of time u stay poisioned so a venom attack which used to do dmg over 0.4 secs now does dmg over 0.8 secs. This means the dmg is doubled and it still delivers alot of psn dmg over a short space of time so even if the dmg on screen shows like 5k chaos claw and like 4k fulls mod claw etc the dmg output is 2x more on each claw.

Also Trang gloves also calculate the poision skil on the gloves 2x.

The only chances a barb has of beating me is using a tg and some max light res + the gloves which = alot of gear sacrfice.

In terms of caster fighting the assa is better.

also like BvC cuz its easier to use but a WW/trapp assa has more advanced caster captureing skills and can give casters a hard time.

But the barb still leads mele if not they are about equal cuz i have not seen much mele that i beaten using barb that i cant beat using the assa

[Bobofet]

would you consider a ww trap assa the ultimate dueler?

[Jerion]

you cannot say that wwsins > barbs in fighting casters just because they can stunlock with traps

A barb can effectively stay totally out of range by clipping a smiter,that's my point here,(If I was misunderstood,my fault.)
vs a ba smiter, a barb will not stay out of range, and completely flawlessing a ba smiter on a bvc is near impossible. the only reason that ww misses now is that ww is a dynamic attack

and wwsins can use a lvl 40-50 mb, which effectively forces the smiter to move, or die slowly

[SicHalo]

you cannot say that wwsins > barbs in fighting casters just because they can stunlock with traps


vs a ba smiter, a barb will not stay out of range, and completely flawlessing a ba smiter on a bvc is near impossible. the only reason that ww misses now is that ww is a dynamic attack

and wwsins can use a lvl 40-50 mb, which effectively forces the smiter to move, or die slowly

im not saying that because i feel like saying this, im saying this from my own experience as i use both these chars and yes, caster catching is better on a WW assa, although using the barb is easier but the wwsin/trap assa is more effective.

I would not consider a ww trapper as the ultimate dueler cuz infact i dontv think there really is a build that is ultimate like most builds they have there strenght and weakness but saying this a ww barb does not really have any weakness and is the most versatile char there is.

Bone necs are also amoung some of the top duelers and i rate mage palas high and fireball Es sorcs etc.

[Romper Stomper]

You guys just need to accept that whatever a WW sin can do to a smiter, a barb can do it better. Period.

[Valvolux]

You guys just need to accept that whatever a WW sin can do to a smiter, a barb can do it better. Period.

When the results are both the same, how can one do it better? So the whirlwind sin beats the smiter, and a barb beats the smiter, but somehow the barb does it better?

[Speederländer]

You guys just need to accept that whatever a WW sin can do to a smiter, a barb can do it better. Period.

A dead smiter is a dead smiter. Just because the sin take 60 seconds to the barb's 30 to 40 seconds doesn't matter. A win is a win.

[shizznitt]

its funny to see this discussion.. as my smiter without perf elite gear will normally beat any barb except by chance. ww sins are just as easy, i have half the HP of elite barbs and they still only end up taking half of that off before they die.. if that. someone mentioned the ww/trap sin, now thats one pvp char thats damn hard to beat. although, ive only come across one so far.

[SicHalo]

its funny to see this discussion.. as my smiter without perf elite gear will normally beat any barb except by chance. ww sins are just as easy, i have half the HP of elite barbs and they still only end up taking half of that off before they die.. if that. someone mentioned the ww/trap sin, now thats one pvp char thats damn hard to beat. although, ive only come across one so far.

judging from the way ur talking u have not faced a good barb and yes with WW trapper i can kill palas pretty quick.

Also same with Barb any barb that WW straight through a smiter does not know what he is doing period.

[Bobofet]

unless i overlooked it they dont have a guide of a ww/trap sin. i made one on single player and im not sure if thats the best gear and to be honest i only raised 1 trap. and i spent points in shadow master instead. can ayone help me out here?

my plan is to test it out on single player then make one on multiplayer, its what i do with all my chars before i start them.

[ZZimER]

I say use a gfg WWsin , My wwsin has yet to be killed by a smiter. max venom + cloak of shadow will weaken your smiter opponent very quikly. WW away from them and there health will instently drop down to 1 ( that is depending on how gg the smiter you are dueling is ) once they have 1 hp , 1 mindblast and there EZPK'D

[Speederländer]

its funny to see this discussion.. as my smiter without perf elite gear will normally beat any barb except by chance. ww sins are just as easy
That's because you are talking about the pubby trash that comprises the majority of your duels. Several of the people who post here are actually fairly good (or extremely good) and your statement doesn't apply.

[Speederländer]

I say use a gfg WWsin , My wwsin has yet to be killed by a smiter.
Then you aren't dueling good smiters.

[ZZimER]

i own mrroboto 1v1 with my wwsin , and id say he has got the be the best smiter iv EVER seen roam uswest, the problem isent that im not dueling gg smiters , its that gg smiters are dueling a gfg ww sin with lvl 54 venom , 8.4k ww dmg , and 26kar ^^" , ohhh i mention 5k hp?. i mostly pub , but i also gm fun pk

[Zangeif]

Well look at it this way.

Some barbs have trouble with smiters. They have more life, damage, AR, can switch to Dooms, and their damage is physical.

[Speederländer]

i own mrroboto 1v1 with my wwsin , and id say he has got the be the best smiter iv EVER seen roam uswest, the problem isent that im not dueling gg smiters , its that gg smiters are dueling a gfg ww sin with lvl 54 venom , 8.4k ww dmg , and 26kar ^^" , ohhh i mention 5k hp?. i mostly pub , but i also gm fun pk

Those numbers are only possible through massive time-consuming pre-buffs. The assumption here is that you play as you are. Spending 5 minutes while someone does multiple buffs with multiple equipment changes is a non-starter for any serious dueler.

[ZZimER]

Those numbers are only possible through massive time-consuming pre-buffs. The assumption here is that you play as you are. Spending 5 minutes while someone does multiple buffs with multiple equipment changes is a non-starter for any serious dueler.

Erm .... i would say it only takes me 1 min to pre-buff , i want all my chars to be as strong as possible. and that is a MUST while in pk games i am ALWAYS teamed up against.still does not help them out any,the only char i do not pre buff with is my bowzon , i have have my enchantress wait in the palace to enchant her. i also use my bo barb , which gives me an extra wep space on all my chars seeing as cta is worthless compaired to a bo only barbs bo. it only takes ppl a massive ammount of time if there not used to pre-buffing. my favorite buff would have to be revives , gotta love em.i dont play necs though. its the necs that take time getting 50 summons only to die as soon as they go out. that has to suck ><

[Speederländer]

Erm .... i would say it only takes me 1 min to pre-buff , i want all my chars to be as strong as possible. and that is a MUST while in pk games i am ALWAYS teamed up against.still does not help them out any,the only char i do not pre buff with is my bowzon , i have have my enchantress wait in the palace to enchant her. i also use my bo barb , which gives me an extra wep space on all my chars seeing as cta is worthless compaired to a bo only barbs bo. it only takes ppl a massive ammount of time if there not used to pre-buffing. my favorite buff would have to be revives , gotta love em.i dont play necs though. its the necs that take time getting 50 summons only to die as soon as they go out. that has to suck ><

lol? You use secondary characters to pre-buff and you are providing those numbers as representative of anything? I don't care if you are going to post insane numbers for your ww-sin but include the disclaimer that the only reason you get good numbers is because you use multiple characters or pre-buffs to do so. Even a crap build can be given the illusion of greatness by abusing the reader's assumptions about the numbers you post. We have no idea what your sin is actually like. Your numbers are bogus.

[ZZimER]

lol? You use secondary characters to pre-buff and you are providing those numbers as representative of anything? I don't care if you are going to post insane numbers for your ww-sin but include the disclaimer that the only reason you get good numbers is because you use multiple characters or pre-buffs to do so. Even a crap build can be given the illusion of greatness by abusing the reader's assumptions about the numbers you post. We have no idea what your sin is actually like. Your numbers are bogus.

Lol , we can sit here all day and argue about nothing. Why not do somthing about it if you don't believe me? I am ALWAYS up for gm pk's 1v1 first to 5.
My chars are
ZiMz - Windy
Bitty - WWsin
Word - Smiter ( Ladder char )
But - Barb , I am almost done with his build ( Ladder char )
Cant - Bowzon
Week - Farcast Javzon
Genre - Hammerdin ( Ladder )

I can duel you L or NL
You choose the char you would like to pk.
( Most of my pre-buffs are not allowed in GM fun pk's, I only use them in pubs )
But I do admit
Argueing is kinda fun ^^"
I'm always up for listening to other people's veiws on characters , pk tac-tics , who can or can't kill who but , people only make assumption's on what they have learned playing the game. I guess I just play the game differently ><
I'll post pix of my sin b4 and after her prebuff's

[Speederländer]

I'll post pix of my sin b4 and after her prebuff's

Ummmm, I don't care. :rolleyes:
You posted incredible numbers without stating that you not only pre-buffed but you used other characters to buff you. You were misleading, to say the least.
Who cares about pictures of your assassin? Anyone can get stupid high numbers that way. Make sure if you post pictures you do it with a combat shrine active on you, antidote active, thawing active, and a high-level pally aura on you. If you are going to post pointless numbers you might as well distort your build to appear as good as possible.

In any typical match-up if you can't win without pre-buff, especially pre-buff by other characters, you can't win.

[Speederländer]

Why not do somthing about it if you don't believe me?
Do something about what? I never said I didn't believe you. Any idiot can get great looking numbers by buffing and getting buffed and then posting those numbers. My only point is that doing so is ridiculous and doing so without stating what you did specifically is purposefully distorting your numbers to appear impressive.

[Valvolux]

Agreed, a lvl 53 BO and enchant can make the weakest char survive longer than normal.

Do you sit a druid with level 50 oak sage in town as well ZZimER? lol

[ZZimER]

I play w/o pre buff all the time
But when I get teamed on against a game
I use my pre buffs and brg my other chars
Why not? If have to pwn a whole game , pwn them with ease.
It's only fair._.

[Speederländer]

I play w/o pre buff all the time
But when I get teamed on against a game
I use my pre buffs and brg my other chars
Why not? If have to pwn a whole game , pwn them with ease.
It's only fair._.
Who cares? Next time don't post ridiculous numbers without explanation. As has already beed stated, anyone can get impressive numbers with mass pre-buffs. NOW you try to explain it because you've been exposed, but it doesn't matter. You posted numbers trying to appear impressive and those numbers were totally misleading.

[SicHalo]

they have a point, if ur posting pics or numbers ppl usally like without prebuff.

Cuz prebuff changes the figures and possible outcomes in duels.

I mean if u have to use a barb to bo, an enchantress sorc to enchant you and Windy oak to raise life + a pala concentration, these things all dramatically change the figures and stats.

And as a result of posting numbers like this without explanation will mostly likly result in ppl asking questions.