kill the hammerdins

[primageon]

when i used to play classic WAY back in they day, i remember 1k hammers with fast cast rate was considered GOOD.

5k-6k+ damage a hammer? what the hell...

how are you suppose to kill these in duels?

[DiabloAvenger]

dodge the hammers and attack them thats how

[hiroshimana]

things have change, in those times if i dont badly remember there wasnt duel penalty or if there was hammers made small damage so blizz made synergies and hammers now can go up to 10k+ but in a duel its reduce to 1/10 meaning 10k is 1k damage agaisnt another player, thats why we may still kill hammerdins today days...

[HardkoreHarry]

Well first of all to the thread op:
Dueling hammerdins can be pretty hard. You didn't say what char class you are dueling them with, so I can't help out too much there. But I can say that what DiabloAvenger said is pretty much the general strategy; don't get hit and sneak a hit in when you have the opportunity. Depending on the class, this can be extremely difficult when you take clag into consideration.

And secondly, a few corrections in Hiroshimana's post:
1) Hammerdins can do a lot more than 10k dmg (on the char screen anyway). I think the most in classic would be around 16k-ish, although this would be rather impractable in most cases with low cast rate and low resists.

2) The character screen damage for blessed hammer with concentration on is inaccurate. Concentration only adds half the %ed that it says it does to bh. The char screen displays full %ed from concentration.

3) In pvp, all damage is reduced to 0.17 (about 1/6) of the pvm damage.

[primageon]

oh ok cool.

yeah i didnt specify what class because I wanted to hold off on making a new one until I found a good class vs them.

thanks a lot though, this gives me hope now

[zrk]

Well first of all to the thread op:
Dueling hammerdins can be pretty hard. You didn't say what char class you are dueling them with, so I can't help out too much there. But I can say that what DiabloAvenger said is pretty much the general strategy; don't get hit and sneak a hit in when you have the opportunity. Depending on the class, this can be extremely difficult when you take clag into consideration.

And secondly, a few corrections in Hiroshimana's post:
1) Hammerdins can do a lot more than 10k dmg (on the char screen anyway). I think the most in classic would be around 16k-ish, although this would be rather impractable in most cases with low cast rate and low resists.

2) The character screen damage for blessed hammer with concentration on is inaccurate. Concentration only adds half the %ed that it says it does to bh. The char screen displays full %ed from concentration.

3) In pvp, all damage is reduced to 0.17 (about 1/6) of the pvm damage.


In classic blessed hammer gets the full bonus from concentration. In exp it gets half.

and around 10k-11k hammers are fine for dueling, they take sorcs, necs and palas down in one hit.

[HardkoreHarry]

In classic blessed hammer gets the full bonus from concentration. In exp it gets half.


jO0 dun r33d 2 gud, d'ya?

For bh w/conc there is a lying character screen. Conc only works at 50% efficiency with blessed hammer.

And just to make sure that I am not losing my marbles, I tested it. Here's a quick run down:

My pally has maxed bh, conc, ba, and vigor. He has +6 to all pally skills and +2 bh and +2 conc. With bc on, his hammers do 2059-2085 and conc increases damage by 480%. So if conc worked at 100% efficiency, bh would do 11942-12093 damage, which is what is displayed on the character screen. If I really did that much damage, then my pvp damage would be 0.17 times that, namely 2030-2055.

On the other hand, if conc worked at 50% efficiency, my hammers would do 7000-7089 pvm dmg. That works out to be 1190-1205 pvp dmg.

Now the interesting part:
The only way I could think of to test it would be to see how much damage one hammer does in pvp. So, I did a few trials, only 4 actually, but I figured that was about 4 more than I needed.

But anyway my pally ended up doing 1192, then 1203, then 1201, then 1199 damage. As you can see, this fits exactly in the range when we assume that conc works at 50% efficiency.

Well I think you can piece it together from here.

[DougDadyUsWest]

jO0 dun r33d 2 gud, d'ya?

For bh w/conc there is a lying character screen. Conc only works at 50% efficiency with blessed hammer.

And just to make sure that I am not losing my marbles, I tested it. Here's a quick run down:

My pally has maxed bh, conc, ba, and vigor. He has +6 to all pally skills and +2 bh and +2 conc. With bc on, his hammers do 2059-2085 and conc increases damage by 480%. So if conc worked at 100% efficiency, bh would do 11942-12093 damage, which is what is displayed on the character screen. If I really did that much damage, then my pvp damage would be 0.17 times that, namely 2030-2055.

On the other hand, if conc worked at 50% efficiency, my hammers would do 7000-7089 pvm dmg. That works out to be 1190-1205 pvp dmg.

Now the interesting part:
The only way I could think of to test it would be to see how much damage one hammer does in pvp. So, I did a few trials, only 4 actually, but I figured that was about 4 more than I needed.

But anyway my pally ended up doing 1192, then 1203, then 1201, then 1199 damage. As you can see, this fits exactly in the range when we assume that conc works at 50% efficiency.

Well I think you can piece it together from here.


omg pwn3d!

[WarlockCC]

jO0 dun r33d 2 gud, d'ya?

For bh w/conc there is a lying character screen. Conc only works at 50% efficiency with blessed hammer.

And just to make sure that I am not losing my marbles, I tested it. Here's a quick run down:

My pally has maxed bh, conc, ba, and vigor. He has +6 to all pally skills and +2 bh and +2 conc. With bc on, his hammers do 2059-2085 and conc increases damage by 480%. So if conc worked at 100% efficiency, bh would do 11942-12093 damage, which is what is displayed on the character screen. If I really did that much damage, then my pvp damage would be 0.17 times that, namely 2030-2055.

On the other hand, if conc worked at 50% efficiency, my hammers would do 7000-7089 pvm dmg. That works out to be 1190-1205 pvp dmg.

Now the interesting part:
The only way I could think of to test it would be to see how much damage one hammer does in pvp. So, I did a few trials, only 4 actually, but I figured that was about 4 more than I needed.

But anyway my pally ended up doing 1192, then 1203, then 1201, then 1199 damage. As you can see, this fits exactly in the range when we assume that conc works at 50% efficiency.

Well I think you can piece it together from here.
So basically, if you divide the number on your char screen by 10, you'd have a good idea of your pvp damage, well, at least that's a lot easier then having to divide by 1.6something something something.

Amusing though that the that divide by ten is about the same as other sources of physical damage pvp modifier.(I vaguely recall reading that somewhere and tested it a little bit with a 6k damage charger)

[zrk]

aah you indeed are correct. i tested it on griswold just to make sure and yep man you sure are correct. thanks for the heads up.

[Tetsume]

So basically, if you divide the number on your char screen by 10, you'd have a good idea of your pvp damage, well, at least that's a lot easier then having to divide by 1.6something something something.

Amusing though that the that divide by ten is about the same as other sources of physical damage pvp modifier.(I vaguely recall reading that somewhere and tested it a little bit with a 6k damage charger)


The divide by 10 rule will give you a VERY ROUGH estimate of HAMMER PVP damage, but again, it will only come close with hammers due to the listed damage being in the 10's of thousands.

For other forms of PVP damage, just multiply whatever you see on the char screen by 1/6, and viola, PVP damage.

[Akukami]

how are you suppose to kill these in duels?

Personally, I'd just whip out my Blizzer, toss a Tarn and 2 SoJs on her, then let it snow.

- Akukami

[hiroshimana]

I said ten exactly for this, also i said 10k+ so i dont see what you arguing here=/. hammerdins if used well may own any character as well as eny character may own a hammerdin, it´s just a question of your gameplay skill...

[HardkoreHarry]

Hiroshimana, you said in your first post that the damage gets reduced to 1/10 in pvp, but that is innaccurate. In pvp damage gets reduced to 1/6.

In the specific case of a hammerdin with ~10k damage the 1/10 rule appears to give a fairly accurate damage estimate, in that case, you are correct.

After reading your post again I realize that maybe you were only talking about a hammerdins damage, and if that is the case, than the 1/10 thing will provide a resonable estimate for your damage. I just wanted to make it clear that the pvp penalty is 1/6, and that the only reason why the 1/10 appears to be somewhat accurate is because the character screen overstates the actual damage.

[CheeseRYummy]

Personally, I'd just whip out my Blizzer, toss a Tarn and 2 SoJs on her, then let it snow.

- Akukami

Yup :D. Try cr stacking that.

[Zodijackyl]

Yup :D. Try cr stacking that.

Most dins stack CR with a 3soc shield, and usually also 2 fcr rings and a +1 amu, cutting their damage severely, which makes it easy for other chars to kill them.

[hiroshimana]

yup its true zod, and yes i said that for specific hammerdin case(i have read most of the arreat submit web were i get most of my info from); If u have a 120 cr shield and some nice cr stuff a sorc should not be so hard unless your hammers are 7k- or she has bo =P

[Zodijackyl]

But when a hammerdin puts on a 3soc shield and some nice CR stuff, he cuts his damage enough for a barb to run through his hammer field and cut a lethal whirlwind through him. I say this assuming it's a team duel, because hammerdins are a 1.1x lamer char for 1v1. Sure they're useful in CS, but every single 1.1x newbie has a hammerdin and has it built so he can juv through any char, which makes it lame. They also take advantage of desynching, which is why if I do duel a hammerdin, I enjoy lagging the game with a bone necro (they usually cry over it then leave). High strength martel barbs also wipe out any char they manage to hit pretty quickly... for example: WhiteLightning's 87 barb using twitch+sback died one WW to my 250str martel MFer.

[hiroshimana]

Refering to Steves example, I must say i completely agree. A high str, high dmg, martel and high ar barb may kill a bvb or a hammerdin a bit more easily when they are able to hit them pretty quickly(thats why i think a big speed, high str, high ar, martel barb should be a great killer agaisnt hammerdins and barbs)

[Zodijackyl]

2H barbs shouldn't be able to kill 1H BvBs. Only the terrible ones die to 2H barbs.

Power Maulers still kill hdins easily tho.

[Akukami]

Yup :D. Try cr stacking that.

Even a well stacked Din isn't any match for a 4k Blizz, Immortality.

- Akukami

[HardkoreHarry]

WhiteLightning's 87 barb using twitch+sback died one WW to my 250str martel MFer.


Also, dual bo sticks dont offer much blocking or defence. And no bo means that you have pretty low life too. WL has requested a 1v1 no pots/shrines/general gayness duel with you. Do you accept? He told me he already killed your sorc once in a pathetic attempt to pk his cs raid, and would love to do it again.

[zrk]

Even a well stacked Din isn't any match for a 4k Blizz, Immortality.

- Akukami

Yes he is. with 95% cr stacked deep enough your 4k blizz will be turned into a tiny 33 dmg blizz :P And you'll also have less fcr so easier to make a mistake.

[Dacar92]

Also, dual bo sticks dont offer much blocking or defence. And no bo means that you have pretty low life too. WL has requested a 1v1 no pots/shrines/general gayness duel with you. Do you accept? He told me he already killed your sorc once in a pathetic attempt to pk his cs raid, and would love to do it again.


Why don't you tell WL to take his challenges elsewhere. I don't want to hear from him again. Not after the immature rant he posted here...in 400 threads.

[CheeseRYummy]

Why don't you tell WL to take his challenges elsewhere. I don't want to hear from him again. Not after the immature rant he posted here...in 400 threads.

Was he really that bad?

[fredsta54]

2H barbs shouldn't be able to kill 1H BvBs. Only the terrible ones die to 2H barbs.

Power Maulers still kill hdins easily tho.

I disagree with you here. A 2h barb vs a bvb should not win, but he should be able to take down the bvb while dieng himself

A Full strength bsnap/mart/rcage/gtoe will kill most bvbs 1 whirl, even if he himself dies







Fred

[Kevin William Cox]

Was he really that bad?


Yes. 20 pages, 400 threads, By-passing the word filter and insulting specific members here in Classic. Basicly, acting like a 2 year old that didn't get his way. After 3 bannings, he MAY still be around. Hideing out under a new name and IP address. What gets me is this, if he and his friends think these forums are so lame (which they have stated) then why do they keep trying to come back here? Funny isn't it. The sad part about it is, they had good knowledge of the game and could have helped a lot people with good advice. But, they had problems agreeing to disagree with other forum members. The my way or the highway type of attitude doesn't cut it the real world and it doesn't cut it here either. Judgement was passed on those played a part and it was fair. Some got a 3 day ban and came back, others decided to act like children and get perm banned. Again, and again and again. We all should realise that the way we post is a lot like a fingerprint. People can tell it's you. Wether you think so or not.


I agree with Dacar, HARRY tell WL to take it elsewhere. That should take all of 2 seconds right?


Back on topic: It has been my experience that a 2H Barb can and does take down 1H Barbs (while dieing himself) about 50% of the time. Skill matters though. 90% CB, 2 WW's most of the time.

[hiroshimana]

Yes fred, kev, also you may win to bvb without dieing(done it before, mostly on not noob but not godly people) and i think sooner or later, a huge AR pure str baba is going to be able to win a bvb =P. why do i say this? have you seen the massive growth of barbs with martel? yes say mostly its for team duels, but IMO bvb´s are staring to be only what their name says bvb and maybe people is getting bored. this is all OMHO so please dont fight, now in the other hand, a def bvb with godly def and 70 block shield, now that i consider(if he stand still ww´s) a mostly very challenging (almost imposible) duel.

[fredsta54]

Yes fred, kev, also you may win to bvb without dieing(done it before, mostly on not noob but not godly people) and i think sooner or later, a huge AR pure str baba is going to be able to win a bvb =P. why do i say this? have you seen the massive growth of barbs with martel? yes say mostly its for team duels, but IMO bvb´s are staring to be only what their name says bvb and maybe people is getting bored. this is all OMHO so please dont fight, now in the other hand, a def bvb with godly def and 70 block shield, now that i consider(if he stand still ww´s) a mostly very challenging (almost imposible) duel.

Well... on a pure str 2h baba, your gonna die 1 hit vs a bvb no matter what, so if you dont 1 hit ko him the duel is over

Well, heres a barb ive made that does 1 hit ko many bvbs

Pure strenght.

angelic combo
rcage/gtoe
Pbsnap/260 mart
3 pamethyst helm (more ed than biggins with mace class wepns)
Cd str life (hah) belt
15 str/ar war gaunts

I think that if your gauranteed to die 1 hit anyway, you should go pure str on a 2h "bvb"







Fred

[hiroshimana]

Thats why i never do a pure str, i peer a 200-220 str and 250 after gear barb. getting back on the subject i think a bowzon could easily kill a din? could anyone give me an answer on this?

[fredsta54]

Thats why i never do a pure str, i peer a 200-220 str and 250 after gear barb. getting back on the subject i think a bowzon could easily kill a din? could anyone give me an answer on this?

A bowazon can kill a din, but a din can hit ko a zon. If the din desynches, it can be a very hard matchup for the zon. The best tactic is to run away in a zig zag pattern while spamming guided with slow and 50 r/w

I consider a zon to be far superior to a din that doesnt use charge though :P

I think a 11 fpa attack with high r/w and clegs gloves, 150+ gothic bow would be your best bet

@akukimi: 4k blizz? w/ 90 listed cr + 150 cr stacked any blizz tickles



Fred

[DiabloAvenger]

That is true, My blizz sorc once faced a hdin and her blizz only took like 1/75of his life, sure I may have only had 2.3k blizz but still, 4k would still just tickle the hdin

[Dagnome]

The only thing you need to watch out for when dueling a din is the high dmg hammers of course, but also Clagging.
Clagging is commonly used with Charge dins and it is very easy to do, but basicly they get next to you can can cast 2-3-4 hammers before they even show up on your screen hence you die.

But anyway, does this 1/10 rule apply for all skills pvp? I myself made a fantacism hammerdin who does more damage than a conc din, does the same penalty apply to him? Are they both 1/10 ish there damage?

[Noite Escura]

Fanaticism doens't add to Hammer Damage despite what it shows on the char screen

[Dagnome]

I beg to differ. I wouldnt be able to solo hell cs if I was only doing the base hammer damage. what is that, 1.6k ish?
Id say if you have like some sort of proof it doesnt then I could belive ya, but I really dont think 1.6k dmg is enough to solo cs.

[fredsta54]

I beg to differ. I wouldnt be able to solo hell cs if I was only doing the base hammer damage. what is that, 1.6k ish?
Id say if you have like some sort of proof it doesnt then I could belive ya, but I really dont think 1.6k dmg is enough to solo cs.

you probably "solo" cs with a noob din who happens to have conc on, fanat does not add to hammer damage. In a 1 player game, 1.6k hammers is enough to solo cs slowly

All skills have the same pvp penalty, but it diffires for magic and physical, 1/6 for elemental and 1/10 for physical?






Fred

[zrk]

from what ive heard the penalty is 1/6 for everything but ive also heard that throwbabas only take a 1/4 penalty.

[Dagnome]

Hmm.. Maybe I am wrong about the fanta din. I would haveto see some sort of documentation, I mean why would conc add to hammers and fanta not? Is it a bug or something? Cause I kill just fine when we in CS when I away from a conc pally, you sure they didnt fix that in the 1.11 patch?

[WarlockCC]

Hmm.. Maybe I am wrong about the fanta din. I would haveto see some sort of documentation, I mean why would conc add to hammers and fanta not? Is it a bug or something? Cause I kill just fine when we in CS when I away from a conc pally, you sure they didnt fix that in the 1.11 patch?
Compare no aura to fana aura to conc aura. You will have proof whichever way it points, your mind will be at ease, a state of Zen wil be achieved once more. :)
Find yourself some Champ urdars(in Hell) to test on, they make good subjects for these kind of things.

[Dagnome]

Compare no aura to fana aura to conc aura. You will have proof whichever way it points, your mind will be at ease, a state of Zen wil be achieved once more. :)
Find yourself some Champ urdars(in Hell) to test on, they make good subjects for these kind of things.

My mind is at ease now, I am very upset that Fant is glitched, and hope Blizz fixes it. Now we need to wonder, does the same bug apply to might? When you are Hell csing people say "Use might" when you have multiple Pally's. Does it make a diffrence?

[Noite Escura]

Nope, only Conc. And it seems to be a consensus that it also only adds half the bonus

[HardkoreHarry]

It is not a bug or a glitch that only concentration increases bh dmg. This is just the way it was meant to be.

And yes, conc only works at 50% efficiency with bh, I showed this in a post somewhere, it may have been in this thread, I don't remember.

EDIT: Just so some members of this forum don't start crying saying I'm a big meany and stuff like that for not providing a link to the post I was talking about, here it is:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=4345892&postcount=7

[Dagnome]

It is not a bug or a glitch that only concentration increases bh dmg. This is just the way it was meant to be.

And yes, conc only works at 50% efficiency with bh, I showed this in a post somewhere, it may have been in this thread, I don't remember.

EDIT: Just so some members of this forum don't start crying saying I'm a big meany and stuff like that for not providing a link to the post I was talking about, here it is:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=4345892&postcount=7

If it isnt some kind of glitch then why is it simply adding to damage? It adds to damage and fant does as well, heck, it even shows up in the char screen. I dont think Blizz would make a aura that gave the false sense of dealing additional damage. I know it doesnt work, but I am simply questioning the fact that you claim how "This is just the way it was meant to be" .

[Rawly]

15 str/ar war gaunts

Fred
Slight technical point dont think you can get more than +9 on gloves on 1.11 ladder. I have never seen any and i have alot of +15 dex gloves.

[WarlockCC]

Slight technical point dont think you can get more than +9 on gloves on 1.11 ladder. I have never seen any and i have alot of +15 dex gloves.
In non-ladder 1.11, the highest I've seen drop is a 9 str / 14 dex.
Doesn't mean I know what is possible, just means this is the highest I have seen drop so far. :)

[Dagnome]

I play ladder and I have seen 15 dex and 9 strength. Those are the most ive seen in 1.11.