When Smiting barbs - exile vs ber'd hoz ?

[OBDjinn]

What do you prefer and why ?
the DR from Bered HoZ or defience from exile ?

Question is only for smiting in PvP vs meele since there is no argue what to use vs casters. :rolleyes:

/D.

[kingdryland]

Defiance/defense +life tap from exile. If they can use fanaticism from beast why can't we use tap :)

[dkay]

id so exile if you can get the max block. if not then stick with hoz.

"kingdryland Defiance/defense +life tap from exile. If they can use fanaticism from beast why can't we use tap :)"

a smart barb wont use beast against a good smiter anyways. they'd use doom.

[kingdryland]

A smart smiter will overstack ias (highlord's,20 ias gloves etc) and nullify the slow from doom. The smart barb will be left with less ar and damage.

[dkay]

you cant really stack too much ias without sacrificing something important. since a pally NEEDS to use grief z, they need an extra 20 ias anyways which means they will either already be using hl or 20 ias gloves. which means the pally can only get an extra additional 20 ias from either to glove or the ammy. though i dont know the exact number of ias required to negate doom's slow, i know you need more than an extra 20. in order to get MORE ias, the pally will need to either change helm (to a 40/15ed shako or 80/30 coa or whatever, either way they will lose dr) or use grief pb which will leave the pally at a greater disadvantage due to range 2.

the barb will lose displayed damage, but in return from using doom, he now has more deadly strike and same amount of OW. the ar is negligiable because a barb only needs 8kish ar to kill a 40k def smiter. i kill them with 6k, and i have a crappy barb. a good one has 10k default, no angelics.

[kingdryland]

Worths the sacrifice (not in dr) since the bvc will lose ALOT of ar/damage for ditching beast...

[dkay]

you posted before i finished editing. read second paragraph to answer your post.

[kingdryland]

40k def smiters have no exile i m afraid. 45 is the base for serious ones,up to 60+. Grief becomes way more lethal with fanaticism btw. Your doom side will be more powerful than just a beast, but the grief side will lose punch. Btw, do these smiters charge in v's to desynch to your side or not?

[dkay]

if your questioning that a good smiter will beat a good barb, i suggest you read some threads in pvp forum. if you already have and still ahve doubt, message any good bvc. its already been proven that a bvc > v.t and a v.t is a pumped up version of a smiter. even godly smiters have no chance against a godly bvc. i know a couple bvcs that would gladly show you a smiters place.

when i said a barb can use doom, it doesnt mean he NEEDS it. i rarely switch off to doom, only when im lazy.

edit: just so you know, defence suffers from diminishing returns. just because you have 50k defence doesnt mean that a barb cant hit you with less than 10k ar. (barbs can easily hit 20K with angelics anyways)

[kingdryland]

if your questioning that a good smiter will beat a good barb, i suggest you read some threads in pvp forum. if you already have and still ahve doubt, message any good bvc. its already been proven that a bvc > v.t and a v.t is a pumped up version of a smiter. even godly smiters have no chance against a godly bvc. i know a couple bvcs that would gladly show you a smiters place.

when i said a barb can use doom, it doesnt mean he NEEDS it. i rarely switch off to doom, only when im lazy.

edit: just so you know, defence suffers from diminishing returns. just because you have 50k defence doesnt mean that a barb cant hit you with less than 10k ar. (barbs can easily hit 20K with angelics anyways)

Do you jump into conculusions? Did I claim that smiters own bvc barbs anywhere? Was that a discussion on gear or what? As for godly smiters and bvc barbs,ask morotsjos in pvp forum about how easy or not top notch smiters can be. V/t is not a beefed up smiter, but a smite/foh hybrid.It has lower defense than a pure smiter.

[dkay]

a vt IS a beefed smtier. reason why? a v.t can handle casters far better than a normal smiter can (because its more versatile) zealers, werewolves, conc barbs and all of the above EXCLUDING whirlwind gets killed by a smiter no matter what defence because of the mechanics of smite. fury druids are an exception that has a chance against smiters due to 5 range and insane ar (druids hit 40k ar easily which makes high defence smiters useless. thats when a v.t, once again comes in handy, a v.t should never lose to a druid simply because they can nail you with foh from a far and charge away. so yes. a v.t is a beefed smiter because it uses smite as a main attack and it is far more versatile.

then exactly WHEN is all that defence useful? pvm. against a whirlwind barb it doesnt matter if you have 8k defence or 60k defence, a good barb will win no matter what. a bvc can easily slap on angelics and boost thier ar to 20K, more than enough to kill a high defence smiter.

ill be very blunt with this: pure smiters are a waste.

[kingdryland]

Thanks for the seminar on foh and smite,nevermind that I knew all these. (You forgot the difficulties of foh vs cyclone armor btw). As for pure smite vs ww again ask morotsjos. He can tell you how good top notch smiters are. Thanks.

[jake007]

I've done test in single player. A fully decked out BvC (Perfect Gear, inventory full of 3/20/20's, Max damage DR) got minced by a Decent Cookie Cutter Exile smiter with Grief BA.

BvC got many source of AR. Used demon's limb and full angelic set. Got around 20K AR I believe.

Results: Grief + Doom: Damage too low and smiter tapped it back and remained in full HP
Grief + Beast: Damage decent enough, but the smite tapped it back with their fast smite.

However, when the barb decided to use a lifetap wand, it was pretty close but still lost.

This lead to believe that exile smiters are superior than even the best BvCs, when clashing head on.

[mainaman]

hm im ladder bvc and easy get 26k ar with angelics and dlimb chant.
the only diff from lower ar with diff ring/amuset up is how much time it takes to kill the smiter.
also if a bvc duels the right way most of time its a win with less than half life loss nomatter life tap or not.
And I dont argue there are good smiters out there but glodly smiter vs godly bvc is 50/50 at best..

[MegaFlame]

The defense isn't the real issue here. It's rather the life tap I'd say. So just for that I think exile might be better but otherwise ber'd hoz all the way.

[jake007]

Life-tap is indeed the issue.

http://img417.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0013fw.jpg

22K AR with the an inventory full of 3/20/20s and the perfect setup for a BvC. Base strength and dexterity.

Prebuffed with Demon Limb, +6Bo magical helm, and full angelic set.

[MegaFlame]

Good good are these grief zerks?

[kingdryland]

If you see the displayed damage of ww you will see that the primary is probably grief while the secondary probably beast.

[dkay]

wow a decked out bvc got minced b a decent smiter? too bad the person controling the barb must suck big time. smiters are hard for a bvc but they should never lose consistantly, even pravda admits that barbs have the advantage vrs v.t and v.ts to bvcs are much harder than a smiter. reason why the barb got owned by the smiter is probably because he doesnt know how to whirlwind. whirl away and clip the sides and the pally is done for. easy as that. a barb should NEVER whirl INTO a smiter.

if a bvc really wanted to, he could just slap on widow maker and make the smiter come to him. lets see 40k defence stop ga arrows with ow ^^.

edit: forgot to mention barbs like mcm blobs and other GOOD barbs that know how to use them actually keep life tap wand in thier stash, once more tilting the side towards the barb.

[jake007]

wow a decked out bvc got minced b a decent smiter? too bad the person controling the barb must suck big time. smiters are hard for a bvc but they should never lose consistantly, even pravda admits that barbs have the advantage vrs v.t and v.ts to bvcs are much harder than a smiter. reason why the barb got owned by the smiter is probably because he doesnt know how to whirlwind. whirl away and clip the sides and the pally is done for. easy as that. a barb should NEVER whirl INTO a smiter.

if a bvc really wanted to, he could just slap on widow maker and make the smiter come to him. lets see 40k defence stop ga arrows with ow ^^.

edit: forgot to mention barbs like mcm blobs and other GOOD barbs that know how to use them actually keep life tap wand in thier stash, once more tilting the side towards the barb.

Side-clipping won't work due to the fact both are range 3, there are actually smiters who uses a Grief BA instead of a PB.

Whirl-away? There won't be any (many) barbarian who clashes head on with a shift-smiting paladin, neither will there be any (many) smiters who attempts to assault a whirling-away barbarian.

The test was done assuming that both classes clash head on. This is a direct measure of raw power on both classes. Without a doubt, a Smiter > BvC in terms of raw power. I even disabled life-tap on exile to give the BvC a chance, and the duel pretty much ended up on equal ground. Note: the smiter didn't even have the decked out gear.

Of course the BvC can always use a widow maker, but the same thing can be said with a smiter.

Edit:
I've done another test, this time Grief + Beast + Fortitude. It seems like this setup fairs much better than using Enigma. Can just about mince a lifetapping exile-smiter, without the use of life-tap wand.

[kingdryland]

Of course the BvC can always use a widow maker, but the same thing can be said with a smiter.


The smiter will have widow+fanaticism which is much deadlier than just a widow on barb,but the barb can take more arrows due to higher life.

[SicHalo]

wow a decked out bvc got minced b a decent smiter? too bad the person controling the barb must suck big time. smiters are hard for a bvc but they should never lose consistantly, even pravda admits that barbs have the advantage vrs v.t and v.ts to bvcs are much harder than a smiter. reason why the barb got owned by the smiter is probably because he doesnt know how to whirlwind. whirl away and clip the sides and the pally is done for. easy as that. a barb should NEVER whirl INTO a smiter.

if a bvc really wanted to, he could just slap on widow maker and make the smiter come to him. lets see 40k defence stop ga arrows with ow ^^.

edit: forgot to mention barbs like mcm blobs and other GOOD barbs that know how to use them actually keep life tap wand in thier stash, once more tilting the side towards the barb.

i have to agree with this ur calculations are flawed jake007 cuz a barb can be full decked out but if he does not know how to ww properly it can still lose.

For all we know it could have been a typical pub barb that ww straight through a smiter.

Oh yeah even with the range advantage of the ba u would still be dissadvantaged if the use of clegs and doom where factored in due to the fact that the ba is simply not fast enought to negate the slow only a pb can do this however u will still need to add ias from gear to still maintain a fast smite. and we all know pb is much faster however range is only 2 so the barb would eat this alive with the range advantage.

Also see the diffenence when the forti is factored the estimated grief dmg with that setup alone is 7.2k grief hand and prolly 4.5k beast hand also us on nl have another trick to factor.

Bugged belt, this will give 20% dr as well slow and attributes like str dex which makes it one of the best belts to factor in, this way the barb gets max dr assuming he is using a COA with 30% dr or more and still geting high dmg with some slow which will affect the smite speed.

[kingdryland]

But we aren't too fond of bugged items on these forums,are we?

[MegaFlame]

Yeah but since this is an exile thread no wonder the mention of bug is up.

[dkay]

sichalo is correct. i didnt even bother to mention the use of fortitude or cleglaws. they get killed bad enough with enigma.

back on topic, exile is probably your best bet against pub barbs (since 99% of them suck)

edit: stormshield is another good option if you lack dr. i dont like using hoz anymore since grief came out and covered the damage.

[jake007]

sichalo is correct. i didnt even bother to mention the use of fortitude or cleglaws. they get killed bad enough with enigma.

back on topic, exile is probably your best bet against pub barbs (since 99% of them suck)

edit: stormshield is another good option if you lack dr. i dont like using hoz anymore since grief came out and covered the damage.

Then you're hardly a BvC, you're a BvA. Not a bad choice against 'pub' smiters who pick Grief PB over Grief BA.

[SicHalo]

Then you're hardly a BvC, you're a BvA. Not a bad choice against 'pub' smiters who pick Grief PB over Grief BA.

i think he means for the smiter to use storm as this is still quite a viable shield for smite.

Also against typical pub barb yeah the Exile would be the better choice due to the higher chances of casting life tap meaning u would tear up a newbie barb within seconds.

As said Grief does patch up alot of dmg

[DarkMousy]

You're also forgetting that whirlwind is a dynamic 4fpa attack whereas smite is a stationary 6fpa attack. Even with both range 3, whirlwind still has the advantage because when the barb whirls, he's in constant motion with a faster hitting attack. Shift smiting gets the smiter nowhere, as clipping whirls, even against range 3, tend to hit more often. It's been proven over and over, whirlwind is simply a superior skill to smite.

[MegaFlame]

Lol where did that come from? Don't forget smite always hits and can't be blocked.

[jake007]

You're also forgetting that whirlwind is a dynamic 4fpa attack whereas smite is a stationary 6fpa attack. Even with both range 3, whirlwind still has the advantage because when the barb whirls, he's in constant motion with a faster hitting attack.

And you're also forgetting the fact that smite is a stationary 6fpa attack that GUARANTEES a hit assuming you're in range. WW has a chance to miss, and need to go through block.

Shift smiting gets the smiter nowhere, as clipping whirls, even against range 3, tend to hit more often. It's been proven over and over, whirlwind is simply a superior skill to smite.

Logic tells me the otherwise, unless you can prove it with concrete evidence.

And no, Whirlwind is not a superior skill. Give a smiter 7K life then compare.

[SicHalo]

And you're also forgetting the fact that smite is a stationary 6fpa attack that GUARANTEES a hit assuming you're in range. WW has a chance to miss, and need to go through block.



Logic tells me the otherwise, unless you can prove it with concrete evidence.

And no, Whirlwind is not a superior skill. Give a smiter 7K life then compare.

Lol its a fact u shift + smite u will simply be out ranged by the barb i know cuz i kill alot of shift+ smite pala with realtive ease as i can simply out range them and take very little dmg.

even though smite is a guranteed hit it still means nothing if ur not in a range to hit.

And dont argue about ba vs pb cuz with both its a no win sitituation, pb is common choice becasuse it helps hit the 6fps smite with realitive ease and in extreme cases if barb uses clegs + doom it does not require alot of ias to still smite at 6 fps.

But if u use the Ba with the range 3 and a barb now uses slow gear, clegs + doom u will still get torn apart because ur smite speed will be slowed alot and it would require alot of gear change to make this speed up, nerfing dmg etc.

Bottom line is WW>Smite simple cuz just by ww being a moving attack simply makes it an advantage cuz u can hit and stil be out of range, i.e clipping techniques etc.

Another fact about WW that has been proven is that it requires very little ar to hit a high defence char. Say we have a pala or zelot with 40 k defence with the physics of WW u can still land alot of successfull hit with like 8-10k ar.

And giving a smite 7k life argument is dumb, that like me saying to the smiter oh take life tap off.

All of these things are irrelevant cuz a badly played barb with 7k life can still lose to a 4k life smiter.

[jake007]

Lol its a fact u shift + smite u will simply be out ranged by the barb i know cuz i kill alot of shift+ smite pala with realtive ease as i can simply out range them and take very little dmg.
even though smite is a guranteed hit it still means nothing if ur not in a range to hit.

The ratio of Grief PB smiters to Grief BA smiters are like 9:1 (In Europe Ladder at least, and I'm expecting many more PB users in Non-Ladder)

I don't recall any mention of the extra range of WW anywhere in the forum, sorry.

But I do see alot of barbarians getting smacked around side-ways by smiters.

And dont argue about ba vs pb cuz with both its a no win sitituation, pb is common choice becasuse it helps hit the 6fps smite with realitive ease and in extreme cases if barb uses clegs + doom it does not require alot of ias to still smite at 6 fps.


If you use Clegs and fortitude, you lose open wound and strength from draculs and enigma. In that way you're crippling your stats distribution as a BvC - you're a LESS efficient BvC, but moving more towards a BvA.

Bottom line is WW>Smite simple cuz just by ww being a moving attack simply makes it an advantage cuz u can hit and stil be out of range, i.e clipping techniques etc.

And giving a smite 7k life argument is dumb, that like me saying to the smiter oh take life tap off.


WW is being aided by the fact that barbarians have a naturally high life. Remember, you're saying WW > Smite NOT BvC > Smiter. So how is that dumb?

Another fact about WW that has been proven is that it requires very little ar to hit a high defence char. Say we have a pala or zelot with 40 k defence with the physics of WW u can still land alot of successfull hit with like 8-10k ar.

That's more bull**** than fact. WW is just a standard melee attack with AR taken into consideration, and the chance of hitting something is SAME for all melee attacks. If fury and WW both have same attack speed and AR, the chance of hitting is the same. I guess that's not that hard to understand, right?

I really do hate it when people starting false rumours, then on BNET you get people shouting 'OMG, WW neds no AR to PWN!!!!111ONE'

I struggled to get in good hits with 22.6K Attack rating, so please, don't make me laugh.

--

And finally, it's a known fact that a Smiters are easier to play and complete than a high-end BvC.

Without a doubt, BvC are more leaning towards skill than gear.

[SicHalo]

The ratio of Grief PB smiters to Grief BA smiters are like 9:1 (In Europe Ladder at least, and I'm expecting many more PB users in Non-Ladder)

I don't recall any mention of the extra range of WW anywhere in the forum, sorry.

But I do see alot of barbarians getting smacked around side-ways by smiters.



If you use Clegs and fortitude, you lose open wound and strength from draculs and enigma. In that way you're crippling your stats distribution as a BvC - you're a LESS efficient BvC, but moving more towards a BvA.



WW is being aided by the fact that barbarians have a naturally high life. Remember, you're saying WW > Smite NOT BvC > Smiter. So how is that dumb?



That's more bull**** than fact. WW is just a standard melee attack with AR taken into consideration, and the chance of hitting something is SAME for all melee attacks. If fury and WW both have same attack speed and AR, the chance of hitting is the same. I guess that's not that hard to understand, right?

I really do hate it when people starting false rumours, then on BNET you get people shouting 'OMG, WW neds no AR to PWN!!!!111ONE'

I struggled to get in good hits with 22.6K Attack rating, so please, don't make me laugh.

--

And finally, it's a known fact that a Smiters are easier to play and complete than a high-end BvC.

Without a doubt, BvC are more leaning towards skill than gear.

Grief pb range 2 BA CB range3 so yes ofc u will get outranged if u use a pb. Look at this seeing as u dont know there is a range difference of 1 between BA and Pb shows that ur reasearch is flawed or u don't know what ur talking about.

Also fury is a standing attack ww is moving so how can these even be compared??

Still doubting the ar settings go over to the pvp forum or barb forum and ask ppl like Luder, Morto or Blobswannabe, Romper Stomper they will explain and yes we have done testing on this not made up figures.

I also know this cuz i duel with arround 10-15k ar and still land hits and some cases a little less.

And Doom and clegs not neccerally cuz u wil still get enough str off the beast and even so i play non ladder belts like the one in the previous post exist allowing u to get slow + 20 str which will still alow u to wear Draculs although urv rite u lose OW from gloves but both the beast and Doom add OW anyways.

[conquistador]

I made a theme here earlier about pure smiters. And I made 3 smiters regarding the use of weapon - pb , ba or an ordinary military pick :p
Now my opinion is that a smiter i superior but I think that there is a prerequisite for it. For me the use of a Pb grief is one. Not because of ias but becaudse of the need to put some pts in dex and not so many in str. So my prerequisite is- as you may have guessed - the need of reaching the 75% block. A grief Ba smiter has no more than 30 % block if not putting extra pts in dex. A Pb smiter has about and maybe over 60% block. And this is when having exactly 138 pts dex needed for a pb grief.
So in several words - I think that a 75% blocking smiter is the winner.
I agree that life tap is an issue as well- no doubt.
But if the smiter has a little chance to block he will loose despite life tap.
And of cource that a cleaver smiter will not chase a ww barb. You know how it works. I simply wait the barbarian to whirl through me and avoid a barb whirling past me. If he whirls past me there is a tiny or may be no chance to hit him but I will be hit definitely - unless I block...Some times I use charge to get into position where the barb will go throug me(this is when he is too cautious and just whirls past me).
So when i have my 50%dr, my 75% chance to block and my exile and draculs for life tap I dont think a barb is the winner. My opinion :P:hanky:

A yes about range. I dont thik it matters that pb is 2 not 3 range(ba) because this for me is only a matter of the right way to fight the duel. when you are in the right place and the barb whirls through the smiter range is no matter of discussion.


Added in you last post.
You could have edited your post up to and hr.
Considered spam otherwise.

[SicHalo]

A yes about range. I dont thik it matters that pb is 2 not 3 range(ba) because this for me is only a matter of the right way to fight the duel. when you are in the right place and the barb whirls through the smiter range is no matter of discussion.

yeah but what im trying to say is that a barb can ww and hit and still stay out of the smiters range whixch means u have to do one of the following;

1. Pro smiters usally teleport on top of the barb to get in range.
2. move in the dirrection of the WW.

Now if u decide to charge a barb or shift+ smite u will get owned thats a fact.

for charge the barb will WW away, which acts like a auto-hit and u wont land a hit at all on the barb maybe 1 if lucky.

Shift+ smite = outranged Cuz no competent pala will either resort to this tactic against a barb.

[jake007]

Still doubting the ar settings go over to the pvp forum or barb forum and ask ppl like Luder, Morto or Blobswannabe, Romper Stomper they will explain and yes we have done testing on this not made up figures.

Then why do BvB's go all crazy for High AR grand charms? It's simple, because they need them.

What differentiate WW with many melee attack is that WW itself is actually a form of casting. It's still depending on AR and gets affected by block.

Even if you do get through the 50K+ defense of an exile smiter, you still have to face the 75% Chance to block.

Quote:
Shift+ smite = outranged Cuz no competent pala will either resort to this tactic against a barb.


No competent paladin will go right on to a whirling barb.

How about both class just stand there, doing nothing?

Or have a quick shoot down of GA?

Don't even resort to mentioning bugged items.



Added in you last post.
You could have edited your post up to and hr.
Considered spam otherwise.

[SicHalo]

Then why do BvB's go all crazy for High AR grand charms? It's simple, because they need them.

What differentiate WW with many melee attack is that WW itself is actually a form of casting. It's still depending on AR and gets affected by block.

Even if you do get through the 50K+ defense of an exile smiter, you still have to face the 75% Chance to block.

with bvb the only thing that tips the balance bettween u wining and the other barb winning are these factors;


Attack ratting
Yes i see the point u are getting at but remeber this is 2 that are exactly the same so the best chance to maximize hits is to raise ar. This is not like WW vs Smite where WW is the attack that is moving NOT a stationary attack like smite vs a moving attack like WW.

Life

Dmg


It the way ww works that makes it like this.

[SicHalo]

No competent paladin will go right on to a whirling barb.

How about both class just stand there, doing nothing?

Or have a quick shoot down of GA?


trust me shift+smite never work well unless ur playing a barb that does not know what he doing.

tele tactic works pretty well or u tele just before the barb finishes his Whirlwind.

[jake007]

I'm confused. How is WW being a moving attack automatically neglect the importance of AR? Seems just a vain attempt in pulling something or anything straight out of your head.

trust me shift+smite never work well unless ur playing a barb that does not know what he doing.

tele tactic works pretty well or u tele just before the barb finishes his Whirlwind.

Wow, so a barbarian always whirl-away when he faces a smiter? Sounds just like a shift-smiter - defensive play anyone?

Trust me, there are actually Grief BA smiters out there.

[SicHalo]

I'm confused. How is WW being a moving attack automatically neglect the importance of AR? Seems just a vain attempt in pulling something or anything straight out of your head.



Wow, so a barbarian always whirl-away when he faces a smiter? Sounds just like a shift-smiter - defensive play anyone?

Trust me, there are actually Grief BA smiters out there.


omg forget this just read a few guides and check a few pvp posts and when u think ur ready come back to me

[Imbecile]

BA smiters blow versus dual wielding barbs. Ever tried smiting a barb with 35% Slows target by, and on top of that slow from HF lvl 12?

Then come back and say, PB is needed.

[MegaFlame]

A grief PB smiter can still beat barbs. And WTF is this the point of smite being inferior to whirlwind?
First of all, you can have whatever AR you want but remember that a too high AR gets diminishing return so a 30k AR doesn't do that much better than a 20k AR.
And speaking of smite, not does it hit every time, it cannot be blocked either. That is just godly since with max block a even overkill AR gets owned a lot and say even if your barb has a 20% chance of hitting a pal then with 75% block it'd be down to 5%. But on the other hand he hits you everytime and you can't block him at all. BTW smiters can have pretty sick damage also, 10k+ with good gears so please, while I don't deny that ww barbs are good, ww is by no means a superior skill to smite. If I get personal here I'd rather say smite is the best melee skill ever.

[kabal]

I'm confused. How is WW being a moving attack automatically neglect the importance of AR? Seems just a vain attempt in pulling something or anything straight out of your head.


WW being a moving attack doesn't negate the need for AR (unless the pally stupidly chases after a WW), but it does mean that smite can and will occasionally miss even if the barb and pally are both using the same ranged weapons.

Consider the case of a barb clip-whirling a pally who's shift smiting. I think you'll agree with me when I say that neither character will be in the other's weapon range for very long because the barb is constantly moving. Now what do you think happens when they're only in range of each other for 4 frames? It's pretty obvious that the barb will get off at least one attack (that either hits, gets blocked, or misses due to defense) since WW hits at 4 fpa, but what about the paladin? If he starts his attack right when the barb first comes into range (IIRC all swinging attacks like smite need the target to be in range when you start the swing, otherwise it'll miss) then the animation and hit-check doesn't finish until 6 frames later when the both characters are already out of range of each other and thus the smite misses despite its auto-hit properties. This is the same phenomena that makes it nearly impossible for a smiter to land a hit on a barb who's whirling away by namelocking with smite and walking after the barb.

Does that seem clear enough? It makes sense in my head, but the way I typed it out may not be completely coherent.

[MegaFlame]

Plz delete the post above it's a flamer.

[conquistador]

Now I must disagree with the oppinion that a shifting smite is a no go. I personally think it is a must. I think so beccause if not I will always be a smiter chasing a whirling barb. And most of the time I am walking not running so the barb I think will be always out of my range. I just try to predict the place that a whirling barb will be a few seconds later, charge there and if the parb has pointed it already he cannot stop so he whirls through me. And thats the only thing I need. And I am not pointing at him for a hit. I just point at him with a shifting smite so that my pal does not move. Thus when the barb has gone through me already I do not go any further after him thus giving him chance to hit me and me having no chance to hit bacause the barb is out of my range.
And I must correct myself - smiter better than a ww barb - not so sure now that I had some thoughts about this over a day or so. There is a little thing that bothers me. Imagine a knockbacking ww barb!!! I havent tried to beat one with a Pb grief smiter but he surely beats a BA grief smiter. May be the barb will not be able to hit often enough a 75% blocking smiter but if he does hit when needed the smiter will not be able to hit at all.

[dkay]

my my i dont look at this thread for one day and it turns into this haha.

lets see where i can pick back up... i was trying to help the guy out by going back on topic but guess not.

point one.
to the person who disagreed with the fact that you need little ar to hit a high def char. its true. whirlwind can kill any char with any defence as long as its 8-10k near. again. i kill ba using smiters with 40 and 60k defence with my crappy 6k ar barb. enough said.

point two.
yes whirlwind can hit smiters without letting the smiters hit back. no whirlwind does not turn barb's ba into range 4 but because of the mechanics, you can CLIP them without having the smiter hit them back.

spitfire what realm are you on? i will personally show you why barbs > smiters.

again i will return to the point that barbs can slap on clegs + doom. FORCING a smiter to use grief pb where they will be at range disadvantage completely, you can hit them without getting hit when they use ba, imagine when using pb.

someone also mentioned that using clegs and doom will equal in loss of damage and OW. you obviously havent studied your barbs. barbs will ahve 25% OW at ALL times. then add gores making it 35%. the damage from beast is negligible because it is made up by DOOMs deadly strike.

"And speaking of smite, not does it hit every time, it cannot be blocked either. That is just godly since with max block a even overkill AR gets owned a lot and say even if your barb has a 20% chance of hitting a pal then with 75% block it'd be down to 5%. But on the other hand he hits you everytime and you can't block him at all. BTW smiters can have pretty sick damage also, 10k+ with good gears so please, while I don't deny that ww barbs are good, ww is by no means a superior skill to smite. If I get personal here I'd rather say smite is the best melee skill ever."

this is what you call favoring-what-is-written-down-on-paper. if youve never dueled any good bvc, i suggest you do that first before you theorycraft that smtier is > whirl simply because it itd and it does "Lots of damage"

not to brag but i duel with some of the best pvpers on uswest nl. ive dueled with the best barbs on west (mcm, blobs, pet, xe-malice) and ive seen them duel both crappy pub smiters with too big egos and real good smiters who actually know waht they're doing. but the outcome has always been the same, bvc wins. ive PERSONALLY dueled smiters that talked crap on never losing to barbs, then when i 5-1 them they all say the same thing: "WOW YOUR THE FIRST BARB EVER TO BEAT ME." (im not even nearly as good as the barbs ive named either) reason why this is is because all of you taht think pure smiters are > barbs dueled the 99% of pub barbs who dont know how to use thier decked out char. there is only a handful of barbs who know what they are doing but they are the ones that will never lose consistantly to anyone.

since me and halo are the only ones agreeing that barbs > smiter. why dont we move this thread to the pvp forum? lets see what the real pvpers have to say about this. ill pm heavangel to move it right now.

[Uncle_Mike]

IN case anyone is interested the new theread can be found here:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=444747
:thumbsup:
Mike

[SicHalo]

dkays post is the same damn point i was making. i mean just like i said and Luder pointed out how the heck do u plan to smite with a ba if ther person has 12 hf and still getting like 35% slow?

THis is one of the reasons i pointed out ppl use the Pb cuz of the speed.

Listen im not saying barb is indestructable but im talking from my general dueling experience from using both chars and dueling with my BvC.

And yes how many damn times do i have to say most barbs don't know how to use their char.

PS

Shift+ smite will never work against a barb knowing what he is doing

[HeavAngel]

IN case anyone is interested the new theread can be found here:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=444747
:thumbsup:
Mike
Thanks for starting a new thread in the pvp forum.
I'm sure Xircon will keep things in line on his forum.:azn:

Thanks for the P.M. dkay :azn:


Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaFlame
Plz delete the post above it's a flamer.

It'll be delt with..Next time please p.m. me or hit the report a post.
Thanks


Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdryland
But we aren't too fond of bugged items on these forums,are we?

Good answer :thumbsup: