Best Ladder Starter...

[Byrdie]

so, gettin kinda bored with NL... again... and im thinkin of startin up a ladder char but not sure witch one would be the cheapest and have the best returns...

so heres the two ive got in mind:

ES/FB sorc for hell andy and nm rushes for items or what have you

GF/MF Trav Barb to gamble my life away and hopefully get some ok gear in the process.

let me know what you think


Byrd

[Noite Escura]

If I were to start now, I would with a dual element sorc. There aren't much Ok people available these days to party with. Orb/Fireball would be my choice.

[Byrdie]

ok so a dual ele sorc, Fball/orber... hmm mine on SP works pretty goon in Hell so i think i might try that... anyone got any gear they dont need? shard, fcr rings, life items? nothin too special just somethin to kick me off. even a fhr/res sheild would be helpfull...

[purplelocust]

ok so a dual ele sorc, Fball/orber... hmm mine on SP works pretty goon in Hell so i think i might try that... anyone got any gear they dont need? shard, fcr rings, life items? nothin too special just somethin to kick me off. even a fhr/res sheild would be helpfull...
Sorcs are reasonable with poor gear, but the first 18 or so levels are slow/dangerous/tedious. If you are playing in a cooperating party or with friends to help, no problem. If you starting completely from scratch and playing mostly alone, you may want to think of something easier to get going from level 1. With no gear, I think a Holy Fire or Frost Zealot, or Skelemancer may be quicker off the ground. It shouldn't take long for either of those to get to level 30 or so and then they can find items appropriate for a starting sorc and you can get going on a character that can do well further along in the game.

[Byrdie]

nice points purple, maybe if i do east hcl next season ill use some of those tactics... thanks for the input yall


Byrd

[Noite Escura]

Sorcs are reasonable with poor gear, but the first 18 or so levels are slow/dangerous/tedious. If you are playing in a cooperating party or with friends to help, no problem. If you starting completely from scratch and playing mostly alone, you may want to think of something easier to get going from level 1. With no gear, I think a Holy Fire or Frost Zealot, or Skelemancer may be quicker off the ground. It shouldn't take long for either of those to get to level 30 or so and then they can find items appropriate for a starting sorc and you can get going on a character that can do well further along in the game.
Fireball is fast because you'll be using Firebolt until level 12. Just grab a Club and a Shield and pump Firebolt. Go Melee whenever is possible. I've never had problems getting fast to level 12. By that time you'll have maybe 8-9 in Firebolt wich will make your Fireball rock. Of course a Paladin can lvl a bit faster to 18, but if you don't want to start over again, you'll be better with a sorc. Fireball wipes off Normal and Frozen Orb destroys Nightmare.

[Akukami]

I would go with an MF/GF Barb. A Sorc is nice to have since you have Teleport, but a Barb is more efficient for a lot of reasons. And also, if anything, go with an MF Orber. Why? For Hell Andy, you won't be killing much since most monsters are Fire Immune. And also, with Fireball, you have to actually aim to hit your targets. With Frozen Orb, you can spam it around and still be able to hit your targets. Desite this, I think a Barb is better to start with.

Let's list the good and bad aspects of and MF Sorc and MF/GF Barb:

MF Sorc: The Good
- Fastest character for rushing
- Mass killer
- Can get to most MF destinations quickly

MF Sorc: The Bad
- Instant death if she runs out of mana in a pack
- Can't kill monsters that are immune to her element
- Very fragile due to low life
- Needs semi-expensive gear to be a truly effective MFer
- Can MF specific areas only

MF/GF Barb: The Good
- Effective killer with extremely cheap gear
- Fast character to level if done correctly
- Battle Orders (I hope I don't have to explain this)
- Can kill Physical Immunes via Berserk
- Can effectively MF all areas
- Double MFing via Item Find (Pop corpses of already dead monsters for more goodies)

MF/GF Barb: The Bad
- Slow movement due to no teleport
- Iron Maiden (If intending to run Hell CS)

Given these facts, I would most likely go with an MF/GF Barb.

- Akukami

[purplelocust]

Fireball is fast because you'll be using Firebolt until level 12. Just grab a Club and a Shield and pump Firebolt. Go Melee whenever is possible. I've never had problems getting fast to level 12. By that time you'll have maybe 8-9 in Firebolt wich will make your Fireball rock. Of course a Paladin can lvl a bit faster to 18, but if you don't want to start over again, you'll be better with a sorc. Fireball wipes off Normal and Frozen Orb destroys Nightmare.

Good points- fire sorcs are much quicker off the ground than other sorcs. Pure Blizzard and Orb sorcs are slow going at the beginning because they are hoarding points for their main skills and Cold Mastery, but the fire tree has good things to invest in early on. It's also worth saying that Static is a great investment for coping with bosses- Static and a socketed club or bow can get many a sorc to the point of where they can get going with their skills.

@Byrdie: There is a good guide for a cheap gear Frost Zealot in the Strategy Compendium, at this link:

http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=542

It's meant for LoD but it makes several good points and has what I think are some useful ideas. It's titled "Ladder-Running Frost Zealot" meaning that it is meant for a quick start at the beginning of a new ladder season, or similarly for someone new to a ladder.

[DougDadyUsWest]

My opinion is the necromancer is the best character to start off in a new ladder season, or if you are just starting the ladder. Skeletons are, on untwinked characters, just the fastest way to kill norm. In Nightmare you still clear at incredible speed, but that is where the other classes are also getting stronger. The benefit of a necromancer using skeletons is you don't need very great gear at all, because your minions divert most of the damage. In hell skeletons are mostly useful for getting through the acts, but useless in CS. But, I think with a necromancer you can get good starter gear for a next character. This is what I do every ladder season, and I'm usually in the first party to reach Kings on my realm. you can continue to play the character too, just maxing CE makes you a valuable addition to the cs party.

[CheeseRYummy]

Sorcs are reasonable with poor gear, but the first 18 or so levels are slow/dangerous/tedious. If you are playing in a cooperating party or with friends to help, no problem. If you starting completely from scratch and playing mostly alone, you may want to think of something easier to get going from level 1. With no gear, I think a Holy Fire or Frost Zealot, or Skelemancer may be quicker off the ground. It shouldn't take long for either of those to get to level 30 or so and then they can find items appropriate for a starting sorc and you can get going on a character that can do well further along in the game.

Depends on the build, I do fine in the first 20~ levels. For orbers, I just pump ice bolt and surprisingly do quite well.

But really, just suck it up and take in da arse like a man. Chances are, you won't find any sort of decent gear in your other classes. Don't bother.

[CheeseRYummy]

I would go with an MF/GF Barb. A Sorc is nice to have since you have Teleport, but a Barb is more efficient for a lot of reasons. And also, if anything, go with an MF Orber. Why? For Hell Andy, you won't be killing much since most monsters are Fire Immune. And also, with Fireball, you have to actually aim to hit your targets. With Frozen Orb, you can spam it around and still be able to hit your targets. Desite this, I think a Barb is better to start with.

Let's list the good and bad aspects of and MF Sorc and MF/GF Barb:

MF Sorc: The Good
- Fastest character for rushing
- Mass killer
- Can get to most MF destinations quickly

MF Sorc: The Bad
- Instant death if she runs out of mana in a pack
- Can't kill monsters that are immune to her element
- Very fragile due to low life
- Needs semi-expensive gear to be a truly effective MFer
- Can MF specific areas only

MF/GF Barb: The Good
- Effective killer with extremely cheap gear
- Fast character to level if done correctly
- Battle Orders (I hope I don't have to explain this)
- Can kill Physical Immunes via Berserk
- Can effectively MF all areas
- Double MFing via Item Find (Pop corpses of already dead monsters for more goodies)

MF/GF Barb: The Bad
- Slow movement due to no teleport
- Iron Maiden (If intending to run Hell CS)

Given these facts, I would most likely go with an MF/GF Barb.

- Akukami

Meh, the true words of a baba fanboy.

I won't try to correct the injustices you have implaced upon the sorc but...

It really doesn't matter, they are different in skills but they all have the same result, they allow you to get better items with ease. IMHO it doesn't matter which you choose, just pick the one you personally feel more comfortable with.

[Akukami]

Meh, the true words of a baba fanboy.

I won't try to correct the injustices you have implaced upon the sorc but...

It really doesn't matter, they are different in skills but they all have the same result, they allow you to get better items with ease. IMHO it doesn't matter which you choose, just pick the one you personally feel more comfortable with.

I've placed no injustices on a Sorc, just what the facts are. And FYI, I did start off playing with Sorc MFers, but never realized the difference between the "wealth" they produced as opposed to the wealth MF/GF Barbs produced. "Wealth" will yield more of the high-end Unq items that most people are searching for such as Silks, Gskin, and Gull. On the other hand, wealth gives more Rares, and although not as consistent as finding Unqs, they will mostly be the ones to fetch other high-end Rares that just out perform all those other expensive Unqs, SoJ not included.

- Akukami

[CheeseRYummy]

I've placed no injustices on a Sorc, just what the facts are. And FYI, I did start off playing with Sorc MFers, but never realized the difference between the "wealth" they produced as opposed to the wealth MF/GF Barbs produced. "Wealth" will yield more of the high-end Unq items that most people are searching for such as Silks, Gskin, and Gull. On the other hand, wealth gives more Rares, and although not as consistent as finding Unqs, they will mostly be the ones to fetch other high-end Rares that just out perform all those other expensive Unqs, SoJ not included.

- Akukami

Ever thought of just using one gull for mf on your sorcs?

[Akukami]

Ever thought of just using one gull for mf on your sorcs?

Gulls are overrated, IMO, and I prefer Spectral Shard over Gull for Sorc MFing. Also, I've been just as successful without a Gull, and if you were implying that I use 2 Gulls on Barbs for MF/GFing, then no, I don't use ANY Gulls. To me, Gulls are just as common as GSkins and Silks, and I normally trade them off to people for a ton of nice Rares.

- Akukami

[CheeseRYummy]

Gulls are overrated, IMO, and I prefer Spectral Shard over Gull for Sorc MFing. Also, I've been just as successful without a Gull, and if you were implying that I use 2 Gulls on Barbs for MF/GFing, then no, I don't use ANY Gulls. To me, Gulls are just as common as GSkins and Silks, and I normally trade them off to people for a ton of nice Rares.

- Akukami

Well... if you intend to mf every damn thing...

But leaving your res low on your sorcs is a big no-no.

As for the implying, I was implying something.. but... it seems logic has failed you(I'll let you figure that one out) Stacking more mf just allows you to get more craptastic rares. 100% mf is about the perfect amount when searching for rares(There was a thread discussing this).

[Akukami]

Well... if you intend to mf every damn thing...

But leaving your res low on your sorcs is a big no-no.

As for the implying, I was implying something.. but... it seems logic has failed you(I'll let you figure that one out) Stacking more mf just allows you to get more craptastic rares. 100% mf is about the perfect amount when searching for rares(There was a thread discussing this).

Who said I was leaving my Res not maxed? And who said I stacked MF on my MFers? Sigh, another one who's assumptions are, once again, incorrect. :rolleyes:

Try 0-50 MF on a Hell Andy run. Also, I only have 120 MF with about 600 GF on my Barb, thanks. And logic? Don't even go there. Dacar already issued a warning against smart *** comments such as yours. (I'll let you figure that one out.)

Please continue defending your position. However, I've said all I want to on this thead, and I will say no more.

Case closed.

- Akukami

[MarkN]

MF/GF Barb: The Good
- Effective killer with extremely cheap gear
- Fast character to level if done correctly
- Battle Orders (I hope I don't have to explain this)
- Can kill Physical Immunes via Berserk
- Can effectively MF all areas
- Double MFing via Item Find (Pop corpses of already dead monsters for more goodies)

MF/GF Barb: The Bad
- Slow movement due to no teleport
- Iron Maiden (If intending to run Hell CS)

Given these facts, I would most likely go with an MF/GF Barb.

- Akukami

Could you elaborate on the bolded parts a bit please? What gear/skillset do you have in mind?

[Taki]

What is a MF/GF Barb? What do those stand for? Thanks for replies!

[MarkN]

Magicfind/Goldfind barbarian. You use the gold to gamble.

[zrk]

id just like to add that sorcs will get you through the game faster after youre lvl 30 or so. Teleport really helps to do quests faster.

And sorcs arent really fragile if you weild them with semi ok gear which you can easily get from a couple of weeks of playing (twitch, shard, crappy rares). You need to remember that you cant just stand still and cast spells, you gotta tele around the place to dodge enemy attacks.

And about getting stuck in a pack... Teleing against walls (if possible) usually helps to avoid packs and if you have decent fcr you will tele so fast that the monsters wont have time to react, unless you have some computer lag. Rejuvs help if you do happen to get stuck in a mana burn pack.

Ive had experience with both a baba and a sorc this season.. both with craptastic gear and i have to say, ive enjoyed the sorc (she's a blizzer) more.
Teleing through areas full of dangerous creatures really builds up the adrenaline >_<

[fredsta54]

Could you elaborate on the bolded parts a bit please? What gear/skillset do you have in mind?

any ww barbs are easy to level, and can be insanely powerful with cheap gear





Fred

[CheeseRYummy]

Who said I was leaving my Res not maxed? And who said I stacked MF on my MFers? Sigh, another one who's assumptions are, once again, incorrect. :rolleyes:

Try 0-50 MF on a Hell Andy run. Also, I only have 120 MF with about 600 GF on my Barb, thanks. And logic? Don't even go there. Dacar already issued a warning against smart *** comments such as yours. (I'll let you figure that one out.)

Please continue defending your position. However, I've said all I want to on this thead, and I will say no more.

Case closed.

- Akukami

Correction on my part, I meant craptastic uniques, not rares, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Using rings and and other sources(other than gull) for mf leaves not only your res open but also health and fhr.

50MF? But since I'll have the last word... I guess I'll let someone else answer this.

But If you really want to get defensive and :cry: . I'll apologize first. :flowers: For you :wave:

[zrk]

Correction on my part, I meant craptastic uniques, not rares, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Using rings and and other sources(other than gull) for mf leaves not only your res open but also health and fhr.

50MF? But since I'll have the last word... I guess I'll let someone else answer this.

But If you really want to get defensive and :cry: . I'll apologize first. :flowers: For you :wave:

getting ANY MF AT ALL for running andy is foolish, unless you want to have a higher chance of getting 3x durability items. Because of andariel bug she always drops rare items or higher quality.

[hiroshimana]

u have got to see that both characters (which are the most used for MF, practically the best mfers) have there good and bads. Yes, sorces kill fast and may have hundreds of mf, but if u do this you may only kill in really weak areas were having tons mf is useless. also if u kill fast in a laggy pc you´ll get very easily killed and if u put lot of resist on a sorc is not so worthy to mf with them. that´s why IMFO i say babas are better, since u get a pritty much perfect balance on mf, resist, etc... do to angelics and eny shopable mart, the rest of the gear is just to MF, GF, Resist, Brag or what ever you want. also if you see the barb skills, you may notice he has more PVM skills than eny other character specially in mf: MF, NR, IS, Mastery; this all help to PVM (also in pvp) and thats why IMO you should choose a barb as starting character.(after all, what noob doesnt gives u a full angelic set for a bonesnap, or is it that hard to find a bonesnap to kill in norm?

[Byrdie]

Since East server went down early yesterday morning i went to Europe HCCL and tryed a javazon for a starter, figured she can run cows faster than anything i know of at the lowest lvl and becuase of that most if not all low lvl sets and uniques will drop at one point or another and i can help the rest of the world lvl their little ones up while im at it. she my not be Queen of mfing bosses but i might would argue her as the best low lvl gear finder to get a small stockpile for a MF/GF Snapper.

[hiroshimana]

yes makes sense, a zon only needs its jav and u may easily kill cows, bu after u get angelics and a nice mart or bonesnap ill say a baba will be more specialize or better going mfer for mfing purpose.

[Byrdie]

well sure, a snapper with All angelics except the sword 3p topaz helm sigs boots and gloves and sigs belt till you find goldwrap. thats cheapest easyest MF/GF barb to date.

Im just scared of IM... but, to mf CS you dont hit anything anyways... :wink3:

[hiroshimana]

I made out a strategy gaisnt IM, basically everypne does it or may do it. just make long ww´s and if you are IMed just quickly save exit game, afterall this is done a lot, and really works if you mfing with someone on private games.