Anyone ever got a Zod rune in single player?

[Conanbarbarian]

Well has anyone?

Be it using the horobaric (sp) cube recipes or just getting it dropped in game?

[Rizzo]

yeah I think there are a few confirmed drops here on the spf

[Arreat_mercenary]

If I remember correctly, Liquid_Evil got one.


And let's not forget the one from Farting Bob (right corax?) :grin:


I don't know what's the big deal with Zod anyway, I have never needed one to pat or mat a char anyway :smiley: I much rather win the lottery

[AJK]

Well, the chance of finding a Zod is still non-zero, so maybe. I'm curious too.

I however strongly doubt that anyone would consider cubing any high runes to get to Zod. If you reveal here that you cubed your Ber's/Jah's you will be put against the wall for certain.

Edit: Pwnd by A_M!

[Tom_S]

IIRC Lord Vega cubed one. He had a cham and traded for another (outside the forum of course).

[jjscud]

IIRC Lord Vega cubed one. He had a cham and traded for another (outside the forum of course).

That would have been way back when rune trading was ok here, still may have been from another forum. This is the Zod that Liquid_Evil has now irrc.

Also:
Seredash, most recently in a MP game.
NSX has been present for three Zods, mostly MP games including Seredash's
masas traded for two Chams and may have one.
There are probably a few others.

[Shagsbeard]

I think the forum admins have acknowledged two legit Zods. There are a few more that might be fine, but are suspect. There are many who have claimed to find a Zod only to be discredited.

If I ever find one, none of you will ever know.

[TonyMontana]

I think the forum admins have acknowledged two legit Zods. There are a few more that might be fine, but are suspect. There are many who have claimed to find a Zod only to be discredited.

If I ever find one, none of you will ever know.

yeah there's no point in saying anything, you will not be believed

[Crazy Runner Guy]

yeah there's no point in saying anything, you will not be believed
Here's the thing. Many people come in here claiming to have or asking for zod runes (most often in multiples). Generally, these people have less than 10 posts, and they haven't been around long enough to develop the forum's trust. The problem with zod (but really any) runes is that they are not linked to a fingerprint, and thus, dupes cannot be detected.

crg

[Lord_Vega]

Yeah, Vega cubed one up from some Chams and Jahs, way back in the day. The runes were traded (I don't believe I had more than a self-found Sur) for pretty much my entire item colletion, by none other than the SPF's very own Borlag.

A few giveaways and trades, and it ended up being socketed into Liq's big stick of hurtiness.

*Vega drifts off back into the shadows*

[aman]

bah come back vega we miss you :hanky:

[Hakai_no_Tenshi]

Yeah, Vega cubed one up from some Chams and Jahs, way back in the day. The runes were traded (I don't believe I had more than a self-found Sur) for pretty much my entire item colletion, by none other than the SPF's very own Borlag.

A few giveaways and trades, and it ended up being socketed into Liq's big stick of hurtiness.

*Vega drifts off back into the shadows*

I'm sure you still remember the one that VvV found too in the old school days of yore ;)

--T

[Ray Patean]

I'm sure you still remember the one that VvV found too in the old school days of yore ;)

--T


Speaking of old school days of yore, I'm sure Jaxom and Neolithic had at least 1 Zod, and I'm thinking they had 2 or 3...

I know they gave one away (In a BOTD Thunder Maul), so there was probably another in a stash or item somewhere on their computers.

[Shagsbeard]

The kid brother of a friend of my nephew found one when he was in band camp.

[Lasco]

Highest rune I ever found was a Ber. That was a long time ago though and has since been deleted. Currently my highest find is an UM rune.

I wouldn't even think about cubing to get a ZOD. Too many runes wasted to get it. Not worth it IMO.

[Llathias]

There was a recent post, probably by kabal, which listed the fate and owners of the Zods of the SPF.
(Gotta love the search utility) (http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=4155496&postcount=11) :wink3:

Kudos to my memory! :cool:


The kid brother of a friend of my nephew found one when he was in band camp.
ROFL! Brilliant! :thumbsup:

[Thrandir]

I got one by saving up tons of runes and cubing.

[cogline]

Best I have ever found is two Ist's.
They went into my Ali Baba's. (I'm talking 1.09 here)

[DX-Crawler]

My best is a Sur got it from a chest in sewers lvl 2 when chestrunning. It is still in my HC stash, havent found any use of it in HC

DX

[inanefedaykin]

For me, there are only a few high-end runewords worth making on single.
Listed in order of usefullness.
Breath of the Dying
Fortitude
Exile
If I seem to have an excess of high runes for some reason...
Call to Arms (only about 1/2 as usefull as others)

Casters are mf only in my book.
So, would I cube a zod? Yes.

[Crazy Runner Guy]

For me, there are only a few high-end runewords worth making on single.
Listed in order of usefullness.
Breath of the Dying
Fortitude
Exile
If I seem to have an excess of high runes for some reason...
Call to Arms (only about 1/2 as usefull as others)

Casters are mf only in my book.
So, would I cube a zod? Yes.
It seems like you prefer melee, and if so, where's Death and Grief (and even Oath, even though it only requires a mal)?

crg

[DX-Crawler]

And you missed out grief

DX

[inanefedaykin]

Grief is a pvp weapon. Trust me, I know. Death isn't as good as botd but costs more.

[necrolemming]

Grief is a pvp weapon.

O rly?

I don't see how a fast weapon that does 400 avg damage for the cost of a Lo is only for pvp.


Trust me, I know. Death isn't as good as botd but costs more.
This isn't the b.net economy we're dealing with here.

[Feceset]

Grief is a pvp weapon.
No, it's not. It's an excellent Smiter weapon, and WW barb weapon. There are also many other uses that other SPFers could name.


Trust me, I know. Death isn't as good as botd but costs more.
Well, you could have a Death and a BotD and dual wield on a barb.

Or, make it in a polearm and put it on a merc, you can have the benefits of HF and Might.

Again, many other uses for the weapon that I couldn't name.

EDIT: Pwned by Lemmeh

[inanefedaykin]

The fact is, grief breaks. You wouldn't believe the absolutely incredible amounts of gold I spend keeping my griefz usable. When my barb that horks hell council can't afford to keep the bloody thing intact you know theres a problem. So, what does botd have on grief? +30 to all stats, comparable damage, dual leech. For pvm, botd > grief.

The only exception is a grief phaseblade on a zealot or smiter, and a griefz works better for them anyways.

[Crazy Runner Guy]

Grief is a pvp weapon. Trust me, I know. Death isn't as good as botd but costs more.
Are you talking bnet prices? Why does death cost more? It uses vex/gul, whereas botd needs a zod/vex. Both need the same weapon.

As for Grief as a PvP weapon, we're talking ideals here on bnet with duped runes (i.e. Last Wish is viable) and ubers. There's an extensive thread on this on the pally forum.

Grief > All as far as 1 handed damage goes.

As for the repair cost. Buck up and pick up a wand or an excep/elite armor every once in a while. It's not difficult to gather gold if you pay attention to what you're killing.

crg

[Vang]

Did you make the grief in a superior weapon? Anything made in a superior weapon will have the cost to repair extremely increased. And the little %increase isn't really a factor. It boggles my mind when people want a 15%ed mage or archon plate when I played on bnet for a engima, like the 30defense will do a thing.

[kabal]

The fact is, grief breaks. You wouldn't believe the absolutely incredible amounts of gold I spend keeping my griefz usable. When my barb that horks hell council can't afford to keep the bloody thing intact you know theres a problem. So, what does botd have on grief? +30 to all stats, comparable damage, dual leech. For pvm, botd > grief.

The only exception is a grief phaseblade on a zealot or smiter, and a griefz works better for them anyways.

What the hell are you talking about? Be more wrong please, k thx.

[inanefedaykin]

@Crazy: You're right, I was mixing up the rune cost with doom. Either way, botd beats it if you're smart enough to get other sources of cb.
@vang: A 5os 15ed zerk is just too good to pass up. But my point is the same, you're going to repair it very often and its still not cheap.
@kabal: Are you saying that I can afford the gold to repair it but for some unfathomable reason I'm saying that I can't?

[Crazy Runner Guy]

@Crazy: You're right, I was mixing up the rune cost with doom. Either way, botd beats it if you're smart enough to get other sources of cb.
It may be so, but then again, think of the damn rune cost. Death is a reasonable runeword to make. botd is not. Remember, we are a separate community from bnet, and duped runes are taboo here.

crg

[inanefedaykin]

It has no wias and less ed then botd. Two strikes against it allready. We both have valid points and I'd prefer to stick with botd.

[Almighty Cow]

@Crazy: You're right, I was mixing up the rune cost with doom. Either way, botd beats it if you're smart enough to get other sources of cb.
@vang: A 5os 15ed zerk is just too good to pass up. But my point is the same, you're going to repair it very often and its still not cheap.
@kabal: Are you saying that I can afford the gold to repair it but for some unfathomable reason I'm saying that I can't?

Are you saying you put Grief in a 15 sup zerk just for the extra 3-10 damage? And then complain about the ridiculous repair costs? Man, some people are crazy when it comes to equipment optimization.

[inanefedaykin]

It comes out to considerably higher then 3-10 when you factor everything in.

[Almighty Cow]

It comes out to considerably higher then 3-10 when you factor everything in.

Just what, exactly, are you factoring in? You don't get weapon ED with a Grief anyway. 6.5 average increased base weapon damage roughly equals 2X sharp small charms (6 damage vs. 6.5).

Whether or not you want to spend large amounts of gold reparing a wep is your call, but don't make it sound like you're getting more than 100 or so modified physical damage out of it.

Edit: 100 or so average damage is about 1500% off-weapon ED, btw. With that much ED your Grief itself would be doing roughly 6.4k damage.

[kabal]

It comes out to considerably higher then 3-10 when you factor everything in.

No it doesn't. A normal, perfect Grief zerker does ~447 average with roughly another 50 average damage coming from charms for 497 final. A 15% ED superior, perfect Grief zerker does 504 average final. A whopping boost of +1.4% damage. Next time, try checking the facts before you post something ridiculous.

[Shagsbeard]

This thread has gotten really stupid. From people claiming to have cubed up to a Zod, to others comparing who has the bigger stick. You both realize that what you are talking about is overkill in SC. Grief or BotD are both game breaking weapons. What will you do when you can kill everything with no risk? My bet is you get bored.

[inanefedaykin]

Look at the damage from just the weapon. I don't feel like looking up the stats for a zerker again so I'll use what I think are the correct numbers.
24-71 base damage, add 400 for a perf grief roll.
424-471 base, add 15% to both.
487-541. 63-70 extra damage.
No, I'm not going to calculate this with outside sources of ed. If you don't realize it won't make much difference you're welcome to do it.

[Crazy Runner Guy]

As for botd: yes, it is the "uber pwnage l33t weapon," but be realistic. Notice the rarity, the insane rarity. And then notice which forum you're posting in. read some of the Pat/Mat threads. They finished the game. They completed their goal(s). In general, our goals are not bnet player's goals.

It is this kind of logic that one "must" have the best that has driven the SP away from bnet. To have the best, one must dupe, or accept duped runes/items/etc.

We can optimize to a point, but it is only to that point. Past that point, it becomes sheer rediculousness due to the small economy here at the spf and at other online forums.

From the strat comp:

Weapon Damage

Weapon Minimum Damage = Base Minimum Damage * (1+ (+x % Enhanced Damage)/100) + (+x to Minimum Damage)
Weapon Maximum Damage = Base Maximum Damage * (1+ (+x % Enhanced Damage)/100) + (+x to Maximum Damage)
+x % Enhanced Damage and +x to Minimum/Maximum Damage in this case is only what is shown on the weapon.

E.g:

A Berserker Axe(27-71) with 296%ed and +50Max damage.

Weapon Maximum Damage = [Base Maximum Damage * (1+ (+x % Enhanced Damage)/100)] + (+x to Maximum Damage)
= [71 * (1+ (296/100)] + 50
= [71 * (1+ 2.96)] + 50)
= [71 * (3.96)] + 50
= [281.16] + 50
= 281 + 50
= 331 Final Maximum Weapon Damage

Total Damage


Minimum Damage = (Weapon Minimum Damage + (+x To Minimum Damage)) * (1 + StatBonus + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100)) * Modifier
Maximum Damage = (Weapon Maximum Damage + (+x To Maximum Damage)) * (1 + StatBonus + (+x % Enhanced Damage) / 100)) * Modifier
+x % Enhanced Damage = all +x % Enhanced Damage from different items (jewels in armor/helm/shield, Lionheart etc.) and skills (both your skills, and others auras and Heart of Wolverine). Enhanced damage versus demons/undead is put here as well.
'+x To Minimum/Maximum Damage' in this case is from items other than the weapon (armor and charms). You could add +x to Minimum/Maximum Damage in the next formula, but I choose to add it here since when it comes from other than weapon, it isn't displayed on the weapon.
-% dmg from skills like Weaken, Taunt (monster only), Battle Cry is put here. If monsters have no StatsBonus or Skill ed%, then -% dmg will lower their dmg by the stated amount. When they have an aura (Might/Fanat), the -% reduces the skill ed%.
+damage (ie, The Redeemer) is the same as +min/max dmg, with the +min and +max being equal to the amount shown. The Character Screen does not take +damage into account when calculating total dmg.
StatBonus = a damage bonus you get from your strength and/or dexterity (depends on what kind of weapon you're using).
Hammers (War Hammer, Maul, Great Maul and their excep and elite counterparts) : 1.10*str / 100
Daggers, Throwing Weapons and Assassin Claws: (0.75*str / 100) + (0.75*dex / 100)
Bows and Crossbows: dex / 100
Amazon Only Spears/Javelins: (0.80*str / 100) + (0.50 *dex /100)
Other Weapons: str / 100
Rounded down to 0.01 accuracy

crg

[kabal]

Look at the damage from just the weapon. I don't feel like looking up the stats for a zerker again so I'll use what I think are the correct numbers.
24-71 base damage, add 400 for a perf grief roll.
424-471 base, add 15% to both.
487-541. 63-70 extra damage.
No, I'm not going to calculate this with outside sources of ed. If you don't realize it won't make much difference you're welcome to do it.

The 15% superior damage doesn't apply to the Grief modifier, only the berserker axe base damage of 24 - 71. Like I said before, stop pulling this stuff out from you-know-where and maybe you'll have just a shred of credibility.

[inanefedaykin]

Wow, I keep giving grief the benefit of the doubt because everyone says its better then botd but I keep getting proved wrong.

[bill_n_opus]

I have to say that I believe that SPF'ers have the advantage in being restricted by reality ... and that it makes us focus on the game and the items so much more than perhaps the "average" bnetter. I think the breadth of knowledge really shines when discussions about game mechanics arises -such as it has in this case.

Because we are more limited in certain ways we have to be more creative and more in tune with D2.

[Llathias]

Here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=442404)is a thread from the barb forum mainly comparing Grief and BotD. Try to count the Zods in the thread :grin: It's actually funny how they treat BotD like Isenhart's Lightbrand :laughing:

It actually makes sense from the info there that BotD is a better PvM weapon (even 1 handed) and Grief is the PvP king (rarity is not considered from this point on). But then you can always use the cube recipe to repair your Grief (if you can get a Zod in a week, you wouldn't have trouble finding Orts). Dunno, it seems Grief has higher dmg 1-handed, but BotD is more practical (dual leech & no repairing). Ah, and you can give that BotD to your poison necro for barely viable dmg :laugh:

[SeDnA]

What's wrong with a Grief Phase Blade for PvM? It's indestructible as well.

[Llathias]

Range, look, mastery...

[XDoomasX]

Grief > ebotd -pvp, ebotd >G grief-pvm.

Ok back to topic now.

Masas almost made botd, and he had lots other amazing rw's: nigma, forty, grief, beast...but he decided to quit d2 world. He even deleted all stuff just before I sent him a begging letter:undecided: :laugh:

[kabal]

Grief > ebotd -pvp, ebotd >G grief-pvm.

Ok back to topic now.

Masas almost made botd, and he had lots other amazing rw's: nigma, forty, grief, beast...but he decided to quit d2 world. He even deleted all stuff just before I sent him a begging letter:undecided: :laugh:

Actually I think Grief > eBotD for pvm as well. Take a standard eBotD pvm barb build, replace eBotD with Grief and whatever belt with Wilhelm's Pride (5/5 dual leech) and now the barb does more damage while having a comparable amount of leech. A pvm barb doesn't get any vital stats from the belt anyways, so nothing's lost there. Tgod's is nice if you're running WSK, but with 5k+ HP you can manage with just the normal 75 lightning resist. If the durability is that big of a concern, you can always make an eth bugged Grief (I know that it works in SP, not sure if they fixed it on bnet).

FYI Masas was blacklisted by many of the older posters here, a number of whom are prominent in the PvP field. There wasn't any conclusive evidence validating the suspicions, but consider it a good thing that you never got a hold of his items.

[jjscud]

Makes me doubly glad my cham wasn't one of the ones in his Zod, I did get a heck of an offer though.

[XDoomasX]

Actually I think Grief > eBotD for pvm as well. Take a standard eBotD pvm barb build, replace eBotD with Grief and whatever belt with Wilhelm's Pride (5/5 dual leech) and now the barb does more damage while having a comparable amount of leech. A pvm barb doesn't get any vital stats from the belt anyways, so nothing's lost there. Tgod's is nice if you're running WSK, but with 5k+ HP you can manage with just the normal 75 lightning resist. If the durability is that big of a concern, you can always make an eth bugged Grief (I know that it works in SP, not sure if they fixed it on bnet).

FYI Masas was blacklisted by many of the older posters here, a number of whom are prominent in the PvP field. There wasn't any conclusive evidence validating the suspicions, but consider it a good thing that you never got a hold of his items.

Heh well dual leech ring is another option if you want to use string(ll) or dungos for DR.

Buged grief?!? I want to know more and maby cry for not making one.

[Marvel]

I haven't found a zod but i got something compareable to a zod:

Tomb Reaver
Cryptic Axe
Two-Hand Damage: 184 to 848
Durability: 33 of 33
Required Dexterity: 93
Required Strength: 155
Required Level: 84
Polearm Class - Fastest Attack Speed
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 86
Fingerprint: 0x830e7af3
+277% Enhanced Damage
All Resistances +48
69% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+12 Life after each Kill
+4 to Light Radius
60% Increased Attack Speed
205% Damage to Undead
+339 to Attack Rating against Undead
10% Reanimate As: Returned
Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired), Socketed (3: 0 used)

[corax]

And let's not forget the one from Farting Bob (right corax?) :grin:


yup. I have a zod. it is haxxed. i won it fair and square. yay zod!

[inanefedaykin]

I haven't found a zod but i got something compareable to a zod:

Tomb Reaver
Cryptic Axe
Two-Hand Damage: 184 to 848
Durability: 33 of 33
Required Dexterity: 93
Required Strength: 155
Required Level: 84
Polearm Class - Fastest Attack Speed
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10 Expansion
Item Level: 86
Fingerprint: 0x830e7af3
+277% Enhanced Damage
All Resistances +48
69% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
+12 Life after each Kill
+4 to Light Radius
60% Increased Attack Speed
205% Damage to Undead
+339 to Attack Rating against Undead
10% Reanimate As: Returned
Ethereal (Cannot be Repaired), Socketed (3: 0 used)
I'd trade an ebotd (or two, or three) for that. Then I'd challange you all to a duel and rofl as I shift+fury everyone to death.

[corax]

then i'd rofl at u for using up all ur zods on ebotds and ur weap brokes n u have to punch us. haha


...rofl

[necrolemming]

I'd trade an ebotd (or two, or three) for that. Then I'd challange you all to a duel and rofl as I shift+fury everyone to death.
The Fury/Rabies dr00d that used this was certainly not invincible.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=339731

[kabal]

I'd trade an ebotd (or two, or three) for that. Then I'd challange you all to a duel and rofl as I shift+fury everyone to death.

If you ever get that weapon, I'll be glad to take your ear.

[Crazy Runner Guy]

If you ever get that weapon, I'll be glad to take your ear.
Aye. WW barb > fury wolf

crg

[Liquid_Evil]

The Fury/Rabies dr00d that used this was certainly not invincible


Aye. WW barb > fury wolf

With my current rebuild in the process, I'll end up proving you two wrong! :grin: Seriously though, be on the lookout for a dangerous druid in the future. No char is invincible but he will definately win more than he loses, of that I'm sure.

[Crazy Runner Guy]

With my current rebuild in the process, I'll end up proving you two wrong! :grin: Seriously though, be on the lookout for a dangerous druid in the future. No char is invincible but he will definately win more than he loses, of that I'm sure.
Since when have you made a PvP'er that loses more than it wins?

crg

[Jude]

What exactly does a Zod do, anyway? It says "Indestructible" in a guide I found, but does that mean it makes only the item indestructible? Does that mean it doesn't ever need repaired? How is that so great unless it is an etherial item?

Jude

[Crazy Runner Guy]

What exactly does a Zod do, anyway? It says "Indestructible" in a guide I found, but does that mean it makes only the item indestructible? Does that mean it doesn't ever need repaired? How is that so great unless it is an etherial item?

Jude
It is useless unless it is an ethereal item. That's exactly what a zod does. It makes the item indestructible, i.e. it never loses durability, and thus, can never break. This is why Zods are placed in ethereal items. They get better damage (50% in v1.10, and an additional 50% when brought from v1.07 to v1.10/.11/.11b) and better defense (although I've never seen an non-weapon eth item socketed with a zod off of bnet).

crg

[Darkwell]

I got one by saving up tons of runes and cubing.

You cubed a zod from tons of lower runes?

[DX-Crawler]

You cubed a zod from tons of lower runes?

Well Oblivion managed to cube a Zod from doing only countessruns:grin:

DX

[Darkwell]

Well Oblivion managed to cube a Zod from doing only countessruns:grin:

DX

Let's see, it took LynKyle 2250 runs to cube a vex and you would need 128 vex runes to cube a zod....that's 288,000 runs....roughly, without her dropping a Lo or 2.

I guess the moon really is made from green cheese.

[Tiggsy Mcfiggle]

Slightly off topic, but this isn't worth its own thread. Anyone know offhand how high the countess can drop in normal? An amn would make my life sooo much easier right now...

[Kefir-Tribe]

Slightly off topic, but this isn't worth its own thread. Anyone know offhand how high the countess can drop in normal? An amn would make my life sooo much easier right now...
Ral (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551)

ten chars

[Tiggsy Mcfiggle]

well spotted, thanks. Guess I'll have to pray to the gods of the hellforge then.

[DX-Crawler]

Let's see, it took LynKyle 2250 runs to cube a vex and you would need 128 vex runes to cube a zod....that's 288,000 runs....roughly, without her dropping a Lo or 2.

I guess the moon really is made from green cheese.

I did some calculation. He claimed to have cubed a Jah in one post from countessruns and then think it was 6 months later he have cubed a Zod, that's one Jah every second month from countessrunning. With a countessrun on 1 min he had to do countessruns 26 hours each day for those 6 months hmm very unlikely:grin:

And yes the moon is made out of green cheese, promise

DX

[inanefedaykin]

You people seem to be forgetting that it's not impossible that the countess dropped him 6 lo runes (well, maybe it is. I'm not sure if one of the drops is reserved for something other then a rune). Yes, it's unlikely but it proves my point. You can't assume that because it took him 6 months to cube a jah it will take him another 6 months. It's insane. There isn't even any logical reasoning behind it.

[necrolemming]

You people seem to be forgetting that it's not impossible that the countess dropped him 6 lo runes (well, maybe it is. I'm not sure if one of the drops is reserved for something other then a rune).
Unless I interpreted it incorrectly, your math is wrong - with the Jah he already had, he'd need 12 more Lo runes.

Yes, it's unlikely but it proves my point. You can't assume that because it took him 6 months to cube a jah it will take him another 6 months. It's insane. There isn't even any logical reasoning behind it.
How is assuming that a probablility that is stupidly small is effectively equal to zero illogical?

[TrenShadow]

How is assuming that a probablility that is stupidly small is effectively equal to zero illogical?
Because it is exactly that - a non-zero probability... ergo it CAN happen, however unlikely.

What are the odds of someone finding Lo and Ohm in 3 days? When they don't even have a Pat/Mat? When they have 1 Elite Unique to their name (Great Skull)? And yet that's exactly what has just happened this week to me.

Admittedly, if you take all the years I've played this damn crack cocaine game, and all the loot I've found in previous versions, the probabilities look much more 'normal'... But the point still stands - Completely restarting from scratch in 1.10 and I've had the fortune of receiving infinitessimally small probability in my favour :)

[Llathias]

TrenShadow, you don't count. We all know you h4xX0red those runes.

[inanefedaykin]

Unless I interpreted it incorrectly, your math is wrong - with the Jah he already had, he'd need 12 more Lo runes.
Your math is fine, it's your literary skills that need work. My point was that it's just as likely that the runes he needed dropped in 1 kill as it is in 1 billion.

[Rizzo]

Your math is fine, it's your literary skills that need work. My point was that it's just as likely that the runes he needed dropped in 1 kill as it is in 1 billion.
Correct inanefedaykin, but look at it this way instead; you have a better chance to win a million in the lottery than to collect a zod rune... Are you as optimistic as in here when buying a lottery ticket? :wink3:

[inanefedaykin]

My old history teacher said it best. The lottery is the stupid tax. You pay for ticket after ticket and you'll never win it big.

Now, rune hunting is a bit different because eventualy, you will get the rune you want and the odds are considerably better given the amount of monsters that can drop every rune.

[Rizzo]

eventualy, you will get the rune you want
Not true. This is the part that you miss. People have hunted for those runes for years and years but only a handful have actually found them. You know how many people in the world play D2? Thousands and thousands. The odds are worse than in those lotteries you talk about and try to avoid. The chances are that you will never ever find a zod rune. That's the chances. If you ever find one, you are very very lucky... again, the same as in the lotteries.

[kabal]

Your math is fine, it's your literary skills that need work. My point was that it's just as likely that the runes he needed dropped in 1 kill as it is in 1 billion.

Your math skills, however, are on the level of a middle school drop-out if you honestly believe that the odds of finding 6 Lo's off of Countess are the same for one kill and one billion kills.

You are correct though in saying that eventually you're guaranteed a Zod, because every time you kill Countess or do HF you make tangible progress towards a Zod. The same can't be said for any lottery system that I know of.

[Hrus]

You are correct though in saying that eventually you're guaranteed a Zod, because every time you kill Countess or do HF you make tangible progress towards a Zod. The same can't be said for any lottery system that I know of.
Though while going with countess runs you make a progress towards Zod, the question is - can you manage to get a Zod in your lifetime?

[kabal]

Though while going with countess runs you make a progress towards Zod, the question is - can you manage to get a Zod in your lifetime?

Heh, probably not, especially if you want to do enough runs to guarantee a Zod (i.e. assume the worst case scenario of a single El for every run). I don't think you could even do enough HF rushes in a lifetime to guarantee a Zod, but I think that if you go by averages you can expect to cube a Zod in the time it takes to get 3 or 4 level 99 characters in 1.11 via HF rushing.

[inanefedaykin]

Kabal, I'm saying that the chance of any given drop happening on the 1st run are the same as any other run. Will an increased amount of runs increase the chance of said drop, yes.

So if you'll think back, my point was that there was no reason it will take 6 months for each jah. The chance that he got a jah in 6 months in no way influences the chances of getting another one after.

edit: I can see where the confusion would develop. I hope that clarifies.

[Rizzo]

So if you'll think back, my point was that there was no reason it will take 6 months for each jah. The chance that he got a jah in 6 months in no way influences the chances of getting another one.
You should read some books on statistics my dear friend. It's alot more complicated than that, and yes the chance of a second jah is indeed mathematically influenced by the chance of getting the first one. Then we're talking about the chances of getting two jah's in 6 months, and those odds are worse than getting a single. I dunno if I read your post right, but it seems to me that you say that the chance of getting two jahs is the same as getting one, in the same period of time. And that is simply not correct.

[bill_n_opus]

well spotted, thanks. Guess I'll have to pray to the gods of the hellforge then.

Pray hard. I finally moved my summoner past hellforge ... and got a Hel.

The absolute lowest rune Hell Hellforge can drop. Arrrggghhh!

[Llathias]

You should read some books on statistics my dear friend. It's alot more complicated than that, and yes the chance of a second jah is indeed mathematically influenced by the chance of getting the first one. Then we're talking about the chances of getting two jah's in 6 months, and those odds are worse than getting a single. I dunno if I read your post right, but it seems to me that you say that the chance of getting two jahs is the same as getting one, in the same period of time. And that is simply not correct.Actually, Rizzo, what he said was correct. Your fallacy of thinking is called "the gambler's paradox". It can be summarized as "in a fair system with independent outcomes, the previous outcomes have no effect on those to come". I realized my wording is not clear, so I'll give an example: Say you're flipping (right word?) coins, and you got 5 tails in a row. One would instinctively think that it's time for a heads for the 6th try, however, there is still an equal chance of 1:2 for both tails and heads. This is based on the assumption that the coin is not biased on tails (ie. we have a fair coin). Coming back to our case of rune drops, say you've played the game for 3 years, and one of Pindle's minions dropped a Jah. The possibility that the next minion you kill will drop another Jah is the same as it has always been (ie. getting a Jah a few seconds ago has no effect on the chance for another Jah drop).

All that said, I don't think it's reasonable to expect getting a very high rune (namely, Cham and Zod) in one's lifetime. Of course, some very lucky people will get those runes, but some people win the lottery too!

[jjscud]

Actually, Rizzo, what he said was correct. Your fallacy of thinking is called "the gambler's paradox".

Ok, i remember my statistics class, or at least I remembered that I really disliked it, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are right if you are looking at single events. The chance of a Jah dropping on the next kill are the same if you haven't seen a Jah for the past 100K kills as it is if the past 5 monsters have all dropped Jahs.

But I think that looking at a collection of events changes this. If you kill 5 monsters, the chance that 1 Jah dropped is significantly different than the chance that 5 Jahs dropped. Same thing over the course off 100K kills (or however many over 6 months). The chance that 1 Jah drops over 100K kills is quite different from the chance that 5 Jahs drop over those 100K.

So basically, the statistics for the next drop have nothing to do with the past drops, but we can look at a collection of drops and say that X set of items is much more unlikely than Y set of items.

Edit: Yeah, I reread Rizzo's and the past Jah influencing the next drop is wrong but the two Jahs over six months is more unlikely that 1 Jah is right, I believe. A slight wording difference.

[Rizzo]

But I think that looking at a collection of events changes this. If you kill 5 monsters, the chance that 1 Jah dropped is significantly different than the chance that 5 Jahs dropped. Same thing over the course off 100K kills (or however many over 6 months). The chance that 1 Jah drops over 100K kills is quite different from the chance that 5 Jahs drop over those 100K.
that was my point yes. :smiley:

[corax]

..../scratches head


.../leaves

[AceOfSevens]

Basically, if one jah has already dropped, the chances of another dropping are the same as they were for the first. If none have dropped yet, the chances of two dropping in a given period are significantly lower than one.

[Shagsbeard]

Apples and Oranges.

Apple: Two Jahs dropping in a given time period.

Orange: A second Jah dropping within a given time period.

[dizelsky]

I have just dropped zod on sp - p8 chaos sanctuary.

[pharphis]

jealous. also, huge necro :p

[Jason Maher]

I've noticed Zods have a habit of dropping in MP games either just before the other players arrive, or just after they all leave...

[zaphodbrx]

Nice necro!
And the answer is ( for me ): No. Would be cool to get one though.

[crawlingdeadman]

I've noticed Zods have a habit of dropping in MP games either just before the other players arrive, or just after they all leave...
That's when all five of mine have dropped. Unfortunately, I never seem to get a screen shot and they all disappear when anyone wants to see them... really weird. :scratchchin:

[Pyrotechnician]

Hm, what strange coincidences.

[Kitteh]

Damn those zod pinching goblins!
Nice necro :loving:

[FredOfErik]

I've noticed Zods have a habit of dropping in MP games either just before the other players arrive, or just after they all leave...

You should have joined us in CS tonight. Zods galore!

[grivi]

27 July 2012 - Zod dropped in WSK Level 3 (after killing Soul Killer - p/7).

3815

So far, every rune in game in SP mode dropped for me.