Ladder charms for BVC?

[Gotcha]

OK, working on getting charms for my new BVC. Am I better working on getting

1) Grands: 10 max/60+ AR/40+ lifers (I know they are hard to get LOL)
2) Smalls: 18-20 life/30+ AR.

I guess the real question is how much damage does like +90 from charms add to overall damage?

Thanks for any help

[Ebofidergodden]

well ... first off u must be super rich to be looking to buy those charms ...
10/60/40 on ladder ... i saw a little lower than that sell for about 26 high runes . this is on west ladder though.

my bvc on west ladder has +87 max and it adds a healthy chunk. i tihnk it was a bout 1k added to my beast dmg and only about 300 to griefs damage... but since griefs + dmg is invisible that number is misleading .

[mainaman]

you should aim at max/ar/life sc's as you will be able to hold 33 to 37 of them which will give you 99-107 max and more life overal.ofcourse this is assuming prefect max/ar/life sc's...

[sica]

you should aim at max/ar/life sc's as you will be able to hold 33 to 37 of them which will give you 99-107 max and more life overal.ofcourse this is assuming prefect max/ar/life sc's...

Q: max / ar / life sc's or ar / life sc's for a bvc? What's better + what ar u should aim at for bvc?

[mainaman]

well the higher ar the better ofcourse
i use combo of ar/life and max/ar/life sc's and my ar with general pub set up is about 9k
with dlimb enchant 12k, with angelic ring and amulet-19k ,with 2 angelic rings and amulet 26k .
and max/ar/life sc's is better than ar/life sc's

[Ce Olba]

well the higher ar the better ofcourse
i use combo of ar/life and max/ar/life sc's and my ar with general pub set up is about 9k
with dlimb enchant 12k, with angelic ring and amulet-19k ,with 2 angelic rings and amulet 26k .
and max/ar/life sc's is better than ar/life sc's

Well, this all depends. If you have low ar, ar/life sc's>max/ar/life sc's. Also, if you cannot afford perfect 32020's, you should go for 20/30's (ar/life) instead, to have more ar and same life with less cost.

IMO a good AR is 10k with arreat+dual ravens.

[inanefedaykin]

My frenzier uses a collection of 8+/40+/20+ gcs and it adds a huge amount of life, ar and damage once frenzy gets going.

[mainaman]

My frenzier uses a collection of 8+/40+/20+ gcs and it adds a huge amount of life, ar and damage once frenzy gets going.
Gotcha uses pvp bvc barb so frenzy effects dont apply ..

[Gotcha]

well ... first off u must be super rich to be looking to buy those charms ...
10/60/40 on ladder ... i saw a little lower than that sell for about 26 high runes . this is on west ladder though.

my bvc on west ladder has +87 max and it adds a healthy chunk. i tihnk it was a bout 1k added to my beast dmg and only about 300 to griefs damage... but since griefs + dmg is invisible that number is misleading .

HeHe. No I brought up the grands since I have cubed 2 so far with 10max/58 and one with 60's/40 life on baal charms and a neat 127 AR/42 life GC. so I was just considering the options. I use tons of small 20's and some with AR. I was just posing the question of actually how much +90 could give.

[lendial]

only someone whos very familiar with how damage is calculated could give you a clear estimate. but yes you must be absurdly _rich_ to get fine vita charms as 2/10/20s go up to 20+hr. i cant even imagine how much 3 20 20s would be.

[mainaman]

only someone whos very familiar with how damage is calculated could give you a clear estimate. but yes you must be absurdly _rich_ to get fine vita charms as 2/10/20s go up to 20+hr. i cant even imagine how much 3 20 20s would be.
on east ladder 3/18/20 goes for 10 hr which is bearable if one is really determined to gear up ones BvC with the right charm set up

[XDoomasX]

IMO a good AR is 10k with arreat+dual ravens.

Maby 10k ar with pub setup (CoA, 2x ravens)??If so, any more AR is a waste?

[SicHalo]

Maby 10k ar with pub setup (CoA, 2x ravens)??If so, any more AR is a waste?

lol ofc not the more the better but 9k- 10k ar with the ravens + CoA or Arreat is the goal ppl should be aiming for.

Also again ar/life sc or gc if u cannot afford good maxdmg/ar/life sc or gc ideally gc wise u want the ones with 10/7x/4x for the best results any less hp even on the ar/life gcs will lose quite a bit of hp.

[matchuk]

mmm wouldnt ar/max life better better than max dmg/ar/life for gc?

since u can only hold 9 gcs will the added max dmg really benefit opposed to pure ar/lifers

[XDoomasX]

lol ofc not the more the better but 9k- 10k ar with the ravens + CoA or Arreat is the goal ppl should be aiming for.

Also again ar/life sc or gc if u cannot afford good maxdmg/ar/life sc or gc ideally gc wise u want the ones with 10/7x/4x for the best results any less hp even on the ar/life gcs will lose quite a bit of hp.

Yes oc, you can gain even more ar with life/ar gc's or life/ar, but what is the most optium setup for a barb? where exactly is the "brake point" where it's not advised to sacrifise max dmg charms for additional ar.
Im saying this coz most if not all think 3/20/20 is the best. Is that + 3 max is worth 16 additional ar points?:rolleyes:

[SicHalo]

well like i said it does depend if u can get nice gc then yes i personnally would take max/dmg/life but irf u cant then the ar/life is great, in my inventry along with maxdmg/ar/life scs i also use ar/life scs so i kinda get a balance. but with the 9 gcs u get 90+ max dmg which is also useful however between say 9x 130 ar/ life gcs and 10max/75ar/life the difference is 405 total ar which is quite abit but u still have good maxdmg and decent ar however its prolly best to mix it to get the better of both worlds.

[SicHalo]

Yes oc, you can gain even more ar with life/ar gc's or life/ar, but what is the most optium setup for a barb? where exactly is the "brake point" where it's not advised to sacrifise max dmg charms for additional ar.
Im saying this coz most if not all think 3/20/20 is the best. Is that + 3 max is worth 16 additional ar points?:rolleyes:



There is no real bp for ar but the reason 9-10k range with ravens always comes up is this is ample ar range to hit any caster with very little to no problem and obviously u change to angelics for high defence chars, i.e smiter, some hammerdins, zealer etc.

and "opimum" setup is based on what u feel is optimum as the old fashion and standard bvc setup was 33x maxdmg/ar/life but now ppl's setups have changed.

Wot i consider the most optimal setup is maxdmg/ar/life scs +ar/life scs and 6 squares used for life/mana gcs and or put some stack charms in inventry.

[mainaman]

One defenetely dont need 9-10k ar to hit casters besides hammerdin , hammerdins are hitable with lower ar too.

For melee most smiters are hitable with 9-10 k ar, only a few decked out need angelics.

I recently started testing gulaume's face instead of arreat v/s hammerdin and smiter and it is really good. The 50% + ds from all gear along with the Cb bonus really make difference in the dmg output. I realize Guillaume's face is an old news but I was pleased with how it works so desided to share.

[Ce Olba]

One defenetely dont need 9-10k ar to hit casters besides hammerdin , hammerdins are hitable with lower ar too.

For melee most smiters are hitable with 9-10 k ar, only a few decked out need angelics.



And yes, you can hit a 170k defense character with 3k AR.

It's all about Chance to hit. Most hammerdins, if using spirit, would have +10k Defense. As for smiters, even the worse ones reach close to 30k defense. Now, with 10k AR and an opponent with max block, you are looking at a chance to hit of only a few percentages.

Also, the formula that mcm "found" clearly showed that with his gear, angelics is superior versus anything with over 7594 defense.

[mainaman]

And yes, you can hit a 170k defense character with 3k AR.

It's all about Chance to hit. Most hammerdins, if using spirit, would have +10k Defense. As for smiters, even the worse ones reach close to 30k defense. Now, with 10k AR and an opponent with max block, you are looking at a chance to hit of only a few percentages.

Also, the formula that mcm "found" clearly showed that with his gear, angelics is superior versus anything with over 7594 defense.One more time formulas are formulas , but when i duel i kill almost every smiter out there with highlords+2 ravens on, only a few times i had to use angelics. I prefer to have more ds for the double dmg than ar.
and since u love numbers ill give you numbers:

My barb is lvl 95 lets say im dueling lvl 92 hammerdin (ususally ppl stop lvl at 90 -94)
i have 9.8k ar
my chance to hit is 50% assuming the hammerdin has 10k def.
I can assure you that very few hammerdins have 10k def since they invest 1 pt in hs rest goes to passive light res.

For smiter assuming average of 25 k def i have 28% chance to hit with highlords and ravens. Having in mind that i outrange 99% of the smiters out there i can safely say that 9.8k ar is totaly enough to kill any paladin thrown at me.

Hope the formula is not wrong though. 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)

Against hammerdin i started using Guillaumes face and now i have 85% ds ( couldnt find if there is a cap to that)
70% cb, 70% ow (not sure if those are caped either).
All these combined with fortitude actually deliver insane dmg .

[Ce Olba]

My barb is lvl 95 lets say im dueling lvl 92 hammerdin (ususally ppl stop lvl at 90 -94)
i have 9.8k ar
my chance to hit is 50% assuming the hammerdin has 10k def.

Incorrect. You would have 50.28% chance to hit. Now, with max block, that's 12.57% chance to hit. Not too shiny.


For smiter assuming average of 25 k def i have 28% chance to hit with highlords and ravens. Having in mind that i outrange 99% of the smiters out there i can safely say that 9.8k ar is totaly enough to kill any paladin thrown at me.

A good smiter will not be a shift-smiting moron. Try a good telesmiter. That's when range does not matter at all. And versus 25k defense, you have 39.5% chance to hit with no blocking. With max block, that's 9.87% chance to hit. Not too shiny.


Hope the formula is not wrong though. 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)

It is correct. However, you should never assume that the dueler is lower level than yourself.


Against hammerdin i started using Guillaumes face and now i have 85% ds ( couldnt find if there is a cap to that)
70% cb, 70% ow (not sure if those are caped either).
All these combined with fortitude actually deliver insane dmg .

The only caps are at 100%.

And your damage does not matter if you hit once in 8 hitchecks.

You should AT LEAST try using Hsarus.

[mainaman]

Incorrect. You would have 50.28% chance to hit. Now, with max block, that's 12.57% chance to hit. Not too shiny.



A good smiter will not be a shift-smiting moron. Try a good telesmiter. That's when range does not matter at all. And versus 25k defense, you have 39.5% chance to hit with no blocking. With max block, that's 9.87% chance to hit. Not too shiny.



It is correct. However, you should never assume that the dueler is lower level than yourself.



The only caps are at 100%.

And your damage does not matter if you hit once in 8 hitchecks.

You should AT LEAST try using Hsarus.



i know exactly what the number is Mr. Smarty Pants I told you already i know a whole lot more math than you will ever know so you might as well save the useless effort.
with all the desynchers arrownd the chance to hit is more than
12.57% ,you probably forgot the block decreases when charging, i can't believe that :shocked: ????
i have dueled all the best smiters on my realm , walkers , desynchers, tele smiters dont matter where i had to i used angelics , most of the time i never had to .
I dont assume my oponents are lower lvl than me i know they are and they arent even in the 90's , only 5% of them are 90+ only 1 i have met was at my lvl only one hammerdin was at lvl 98.
now stop acting like you know everything and keep it quiet . start dueling then come back and talk
by the way hsarus is not the best set up to use in 1v1 duels ask lets say morotsjos hell be happy to xplain it to you ...

[hardnfast]

As for smiters, even the worse ones reach close to 30k

Really? why do they bother. What type of build is high defense usefull against: barbs, zealots, ww assasins, fury wolves... (I know I've probably missed some)

I see alot more fb sorcs, bone necros, smiters, bowzons, fc zons, trappers and hammerdins.


As far as charms go on a bvc just try to get as close to a 33x3/20/20 as possible with legit charms.

eg: 33 x 3/20/20's provide
660 life
660 AR
99 max

[Ce Olba]

i know exactly what the number is Mr. Smarty Pants I told you already i know a whole lot more math than you will ever know so you might as well save the useless effort.

Hah. Say, Mr. Professor-of-cockiness, what's up with the attitude?


with all the desynchers arrownd the chance to hit is more than
12.57% ,you probably forgot the block decreases when charging, i can't believe that :shocked: ????

I never assume that they only charge. Ever heard of telesmite, once again?


i have dueled all the best smiters on my realm , walkers , desynchers, tele smiters dont matter where i had to i used angelics , most of the time i never had to .

IIRC you duel on Ladder, correct? Ladder is generally inferior in the amount of skill needed to be on top than Non-Ladder.


I dont assume my oponents are lower lvl than me i know they are and they arent even in the 90's , only 5% of them are 90+ only 1 i have met was at my lvl only one hammerdin was at lvl 98.

Now, that's a bad assumption, as you will then need to find out the most common level and then your calculations will be even more flawed.


now stop acting like you know everything and keep it quiet . start dueling then come back and talk

Hah, I never said that I know everything. Where did I say so, fool?


by the way hsarus is not the best set up to use in 1v1 duels ask lets say morotsjos hell be happy to xplain it to you ...

It might not be, but it's still better than having 9.8k AR and thinking that you do something.

[mainaman]

Hah. Say, Mr. Professor-of-cockiness, what's up with the attitude?



I never assume that they only charge. Ever heard of telesmite, once again?



IIRC you duel on Ladder, correct? Ladder is generally inferior in the amount of skill needed to be on top than Non-Ladder.



Now, that's a bad assumption, as you will then need to find out the most common level and then your calculations will be even more flawed.



Hah, I never said that I know everything. Where did I say so, fool?



It might not be, but it's still better than having 9.8k AR and thinking that you do something.im not the one that nitpicks all the time , you must heve realized by now that there is very few ppl that are tolerant towards your attitude .

Its funny how when I said I dueled all types of smiters including desynchers (very rare but met several) you missed the part with the desynching hammerdins ,which makes your pont of the 12.xx% chance to hit toal nonsence , learn to read? Hell i beat KaythonXe, with ravens and highlords on, and he is one of the best desynchers. He also plays nl , so no question about skill...

And being a smart boy you are how come you ever missed tha fact that a BvC does huge dmg and the low percent chance to hit don't matter as much ?
As for the ledder vs nl crap you are trying to promote all the time, there are 08 valks , btals, and all the famous dupes and hacked items in use on ladder too ,as well as many of the players play nl too so your point here is total baloney.
One more time learn to not be so superior, your attitude don't help ppl it irritates them.

I personally don't care what you say, as when I say i can beat 99% of the smiters out there with ravens+ highlords i mean it. I don't deny sometimes angelics is better choice, but thats a rare ocasion. Oh and by the way tele smiters are not hard to beat ...if you know how to play against them.
Hsarus gives you another what 2-3 k ar which is still not enough to hit the very high def smiters, then angelicks is the set up of choice. For the rest highlords + ravens and gores definetely outputs more dmg than hsarus, and you still hit enough.

Finally, calling ppl fool is another proof of your weakmindednes, and inability to express sound argumetns to support your point. When posting your thoughts on something the way you express yourself definetely looks like you think you know anything and the rest of us are inferior to you , work on that ...

[Ce Olba]

im not the one that nitpicks all the time , you must heve realized by now that there is very few ppl that are tolerant towards your attitude .

Being inaccurate can be a huge mistake. Such as assuming that most PvPers have , for example, 4k life.


Its funny how when I said I dueled all types of smiters including desynchers (very rare but met several) you missed the part with the desynching hammerdins ,which makes your pont of the 12.xx% chance to hit toal nonsence , learn to read? Hell i beat KaythonXe, with ravens and highlords on, and he is one of the best desynchers. He also plays nl , so no question about skill...

Desynch is not necessarily the best form of hammerdins. The best hammerdins have godly prediction skills, and thus use a mix of desynch AND telehammers. Not counting block when dueling a hammerdin is foolish. As it's not guaranteed that you will always hit while he is charging.


And being a smart boy you are how come you ever missed tha fact that a BvC does huge dmg and the low percent chance to hit don't matter as much ?

Of course, but you cannot supply a lost chance to hit with adding damage.


As for the ledder vs nl crap you are trying to promote all the time, there are 08 valks , btals, and all the famous dupes and hacked items in use on ladder too ,as well as many of the players play nl too so your point here is total baloney.

It might be so on East. Haven't heard of such in Europe though. Of course it's to be expected of East, as it's a realm filled with dupes.


One more time learn to not be so superior, your attitude don't help ppl it irritates them.

So, I am acting superior when I correct incorrect information?


I personally don't care what you say, as when I say i can beat 99% of the smiters out there with ravens+ highlords i mean it. I don't deny sometimes angelics is better choice, but thats a rare ocasion. Oh and by the way tele smiters are not hard to beat ...if you know how to play against them.
Hsarus gives you another what 2-3 k ar which is still not enough to hit the very high def smiters, then angelicks is the set up of choice. For the rest highlords + ravens and gores definetely outputs more dmg than hsarus, and you still hit enough.

Actually, at your lvl, Hsarus would give you 5.5k more AR. Now, your Gores only add 11.7% additional damage. And the Hsarus will easily surpass that.


Finally, calling ppl fool is another proof of your weakmindednes, and inability to express sound argumetns to support your point. When posting your thoughts on something the way you express yourself definetely looks like you think you know anything and the rest of us are inferior to you , work on that ...

There was nothing to argue about. You twisted my words, I asked where. You dodged it.

"You know anything", Of course I do!
"inferior to you", No. I do not consider myself in the same class with people like morotsjos, mcm, Stoutewolf and such.

[mainaman]

Being inaccurate can be a huge mistake. Such as assuming that most PvPers have , for example, 4k life. I dont assume anything about my oponents life , why would i do it ?

The best hammerdins have godly prediction skills, and thus use a mix of desynch AND telehammersthese hammerdins are easier to beat then pure desynchers. the best desynchers will hit you and never show on your screen.

Of course, but you cannot supply a lost chance to hit with adding damage.
the extra chance to hit cant surrpass the dmg output with the right gear .
espacially in case of hammerdins u dont need alot of ar. again for some smiters more ar is necessary, but very few

It might be so on East. Haven't heard of such in Europe though. Of course it's to be expected of East, as it's a realm filled with dupes.but then that makes it no different than any other nl realm right?
up to the specific dupes. add that ppl have played nl too then whats the diff skill wise and item wise? NONE.
So your argument on this point is definetely unsound.

So, I am acting superior when I correct incorrect information?yes the way you express what you have to say sound like you are more than theothers , from what i saw on the forums here ,there are ppl that are much more advanced intelectually than you , so its a good idea to work on your tone alil.

Actually, at your lvl, Hsarus would give you 5.5k more AR. Now, your Gores only add 11.7% additional damage. And the Hsarus will easily surpass that.
u forgot the extra mana /slow from arachnid and the 20 fcr ? for me thats more useful than some xtra ar that i dont really need anyway. Again if i need ar i use angelics.

Hah, I never said that I know everything. Where did I say so, fool?these are your words in answer to my statement

now stop acting like you know everything and keep it quiet . start dueling then come back and talk
then you say

There was nothing to argue about. You twisted my words, I asked where. You dodged it.

"You know anything", Of course I do!
"inferior to you", No. I do not consider myself in the same class with people like morotsjos, mcm, Stoutewolf and such.
now see that you plain call ppl fool with no grounds whatsoever?
I said stop akting as if you know anything ( i meant everything)
there is no any hint actually accusing you ,you said you know everything. This is my, and im sure 98% of the forum, impression of you.
Learn to read alil more carefully.
The difference between you and mcm, morotsjos,mcm ets is they dont sound superior like you whan explain things, since they are your high example learn from them ...

[Uncle_Mike]

I dont assume anything about my oponents life , why would i do it ?
these hammerdins are easier to beat then pure desynchers. the best desynchers will hit you and never show on your screen.
the extra chance to hit cant surrpass the dmg output with the right gear .
espacially in case of hammerdins u dont need alot of ar. again for some smiters more ar is necessary, but very few
but then that makes it no different than any other nl realm right?
up to the specific dupes. add that ppl have played nl too then whats the diff skill wise and item wise? NONE.
So your argument on this point is definetely unsound.
yes the way you express what you have to say sound like you are more than theothers , from what i saw on the forums here ,there are ppl that are much more advanced intelectually than you , so its a good idea to work on your tone alil.

u forgot the extra mana /slow from arachnid and the 20 fcr ? for me thats more useful than some xtra ar that i dont really need anyway. Again if i need ar i use angelics.
these are your words in answer to my statement

then you say

now see that you plain call ppl fool with no grounds whatsoever?
I said stop akting as if you know anything ( i meant everything)
there is no any hint actually accusing you ,you said you know everything. This is my, and im sure 98% of the forum, impression of you.
Learn to read alil more carefully.
The difference between you and mcm, morotsjos,mcm ets is they dont sound superior like you whan explain things, since they are your high example learn from them ...

well, ladder smiters go up to 5,6 life without dupes and with high def and it hardly makes any difference, techniques to face them are all the same, it takes a bit more of wws to kill them. If you play well it is a well known fact that barb>smiter and there is nothing to be debated. And it is true that most of them are not so good and you do not need angelics to face them. If you do you can just wear them, simple.

As far as top players are concerned, well, mcm never addressed you Olba, Stoute luckily does not care, and Morotsjos has already told you what he thinks (need a link?) and he is not too fond of the Giffy-chan remarks...

Mainaman - do not waste your time, honestly, it's a lost case...

Mike

[Ce Olba]

As far as top players are concerned, well, mcm never addressed you Olba, Stoute luckily does not care, and Morotsjos has already told you what he thinks (need a link?) and he is not too fond of the Giffy-chan remarks...

So, what is this supposed to do? Mean something to me?

[Clay bizzle]

LOL @ this thread. Mainaman, why are you getting so personal? I think you both just have different opinions and this whole angelics/hsarus/highlords discussion is silly. From my experience, I think the AR boost from Hsarus helps a lot and is necessary vs. a lot of smiters. I just wanted to add that in defense in Ce Olba, but hey, I am also getting sick of this talk that Ladder players are inferior to non-ladder. I call huge B.S. on that. I think Ladder is much more diverse and promotes powerful characters. I have four Fortitudes with over 1500 defense and 28 or more resists, and multiple Deaths, Last Wishes, Griefs...... yet am not even considered rich because every game you join people have this gear, where non-ladder it is limited much more.

Now on to charms, since I DO play ladder... max/AR/life charms do not grow on trees, so make compromises. Some of my favorite charms I currently have are 130ar/12%fhr gc, 3max/15ar/10life sc, 11lr/xxlife sc's(i have three of these all around 15 life), 10max/58ar/6str gc, 33ar/20life sc, 1max/30ar/5fhr sc, 3max/20ar sc, 5max/46ar/22life lc, 4max/40+ar/5dex lc, 108ar/35life gc and cannot remember some others quite well. I have a pretty similar setup on my werewolf, but with more gc's with +1shifter/life. Obviously not perfect, but gets the job done, and I have the satisfaction of knowing I found most of these myself or traded them and they are not dupes.

[De4dEyE]

L chars or people that can't afford 'standard' BvC charms will usually end up getting a mismash of charms anyway..

max/ar/life scs
AR/life SCs

And GCs of the same type. Pretty much. If you're L and your resists suck for some reason, then try and get some life/insert resist here SCs. If your resists are fine and/or you can't afford the other types of charms, just get plain 20 life SCs.