View Full Version : Is fortitude a real must for BVC build?
I want to get thoughts on weather fortitude is really needed in a BVC build. After looking over the stat distribution it is a lot of life given up to go the fortitude route. Does it make that much of a diff and what chr's are you really going to use it on where it would make a huge difference. I have not tried it on my newbe barb yet want to get feedback before pumping up strength to a much higher number since I will be on ladder without (str boots or +30 str OW belts, etc.).
Also, if choosing to go the fortitude route, would a rare belt with 24% FHR, 26 Str, 59 life be a good viable option to get some of that strength requirement since crafting an OW belt with high life seems to be difficult.
Thanks for any help.
I want to get thoughts on weather fortitude is really needed in a BVC build. After looking over the stat distribution it is a lot of life given up to go the fortitude route. Does it make that much of a diff and what chr's are you really going to use it on where it would make a huge difference. I have not tried it on my newbe barb yet want to get feedback before pumping up strength to a much higher number since I will be on ladder without (str boots or +30 str OW belts, etc.).
Also, if choosing to go the fortitude route, would a rare belt with 24% FHR, 26 Str, 59 life be a good viable option to get some of that strength requirement since crafting an OW belt with high life seems to be difficult.
Thanks for any help.
Fortitude/Duress does make a difference when wearing Widowmaker, and Widowmaker alone changes a lot. Personally I use Widowmaker versus ES sorcs, but Widowmaker+Fortitude versus Hammerdins only, since I need to use a +120% lightning resistances armor to negate conviction versus fohers. Also I suck at dueling ele druids with Fortitude, so I prefer enigma. But, I can tell from the experiences that I've had, that Duress is good with Widowmaker, Fortitude is even better (<3 to finish off that 1 last hp from people with widowmaker :P). I used to duel hammerdins without Fortitude/Duress, but then the Widowmaker's dmg sucked. That belt seems fine to me, but personally, I would go with a TGod as your base belt, so that you can use TGod+Fortitude versus Javazons and/or fohers :P Also saves you 2 stash spaces, since you will not have TGod+Str belt, but only TGod :P Also, I remade my old BvC so that he is now able to wear TGod+Fortitude and a Enigma Archon plate without gloves.
As for pumping Str, I suggest either base or 63-65 depending from the stats of your torch/anni, mine are 18 stats and 20 stats so 65 base. But, it's all up to you if you want to totally destroy javazons (with forti+tgod they barely tickle you), or if you rather want to have a little bit more ow and life.
CupOfTea
27-03-2006, 18:07
Forti + tgods is cool, but those cryes about sorb realy makes feel sad..
Forti + tgods is cool, but those cryes about sorb realy makes feel sad..
This is where u bless Blizzard for the Squelch-button, or just own the criers until they get bored and leave. Me remembers BTals+BBelt javazon cry about Tgod+Forti when she use Slow Missiles on my friend's necro.
swiftrunner
27-03-2006, 18:39
Fortitude/Duress does make a difference when wearing Widowmaker, and Widowmaker alone changes a lot. Personally I use Widowmaker versus ES sorcs, but Widowmaker+Fortitude versus Hammerdins only, since I need to use a +120% lightning resistances armor to negate conviction versus fohers. Also I suck at dueling ele druids with Fortitude, so I prefer enigma. But, I can tell from the experiences that I've had, that Duress is good with Widowmaker, Fortitude is even better (<3 to finish off that 1 last hp from people with widowmaker :P). I used to duel hammerdins without Fortitude/Duress, but then the Widowmaker's dmg sucked. That belt seems fine to me, but personally, I would go with a TGod as your base belt, so that you can use TGod+Fortitude versus Javazons and/or fohers :P Also saves you 2 stash spaces, since you will not have TGod+Str belt, but only TGod :P Also, I remade my old BvC so that he is now able to wear TGod+Fortitude and a Enigma Archon plate without gloves.
As for pumping Str, I suggest either base or 63-65 depending from the stats of your torch/anni, mine are 18 stats and 20 stats so 65 base. But, it's all up to you if you want to totally destroy javazons (with forti+tgod they barely tickle you), or if you rather want to have a little bit more ow and life.
I don't think it's a good idea to use fort against javazons, especially the ones that use enigma. What would you do if the zon just teleports away and throw lightning fury at you? Fort is good when facing either a hammerdin or other melee charz like smiters, chargers, etc. You can use fort against a hammerdin because he needs to come sort of close to you to attack. Other fast teleporting casters will destroy you (I'm sure) if you use fort because you'll be running slow.
Also, I personally find Jeweller's Archon plate of the whale with 160/120 jewels is a good substitute for fort. Why? Because when you switch to your Widowmaker, you'll be shooting guided arrow a lot faster. Also, the + 100 life on it gives you much more life after BO than what fort gives you. It has low def but you don't need def hammerdins. However, fort is still better than 160/120 armor of the whale when you use it against other melee charz. It also helps against a mage pally because it has +5% to max light res. When combined with T-Gods you'll have 90% to light res+absorb.
Me remembers BTals+BBelt javazon cry about Tgod+Forti when she use Slow Missiles on my friend's necro.I think I lost you on the "BTals+BBelt" part. :embarassed:
Is Slow Missiles considered bm ? (Just a question, I am no pvp, but I found some pvp threads really insightful).
I think I lost you on the "BTals+BBelt" part. :embarassed:
Is Slow Missiles considered bm ? (Just a question, I am no pvp, but I found some pvp threads really insightful).
bugged items
I don't think it's a good idea to use fort against javazons, especially the ones that use enigma. What would you do if the zon just teleports away and throw lightning fury at you? Fort is good when facing either a hammerdin or other melee charz like smiters, chargers, etc. You can use fort against a hammerdin because he needs to come sort of close to you to attack. Other fast teleporting casters will destroy you (I'm sure) if you use fort because you'll be running slow.
Widowmaker on switch>defensive tele/runner javazons.
Also, I personally find Jeweller's Archon plate of the whale with 160/120 jewels is a good substitute for fort. Why? Because when you switch to your Widowmaker, you'll be shooting guided arrow a lot faster. Also, the + 100 life on it gives you much more life after BO than what fort gives you. It has low def but you don't need def hammerdins. However, fort is still better than 160/120 armor of the whale when you use it against other melee charz. It also helps against a mage pally because it has +5% to max light res. When combined with T-Gods you'll have 90% to light res+absorb.
You are talking about a 160/60, right? Also, you have any idea how much a perfect Jeweller's Archon Plate of the Whale socketed 4x 40/15's costs? That's a LOT. Lol, you dare to call the 20 absorb on TGod as "absorb" ? Me likes to refer to that as -20 dmg. Also, yes, Forti is damn good versus mages, but only if you got stack elsewhere, since forti only gives 30 all at best. So with a perfect Ort Kiras and Fade from Treachery, you will gain +190 extra resistances. Assuming you have perfect torch, perfect anni, dual angelics, and 60all from nat res and 49 light res from your boots. total 369 light res. 369-250-25-25=69 light res. Now, we assume he has a Jewellers xxx Of Deflecting, socketed with 4x +5%/-5% lightning facets. Now you are at 49 light res. You seriously going to duel a foher with 49 lightning resistances? And what the hell does a Tgod help when you do not even hit 75 light res? Now, let's change Forti into a +120% lightning resistances armor. Now you are at +139 lightning resistances, aka 85%. Lots better, right?
And yes, I know, you can/will use something like +6x% lightning resistance rings and Enchant, and have crap AR. But, who cares if it gives you +300% dmg to you guided arrows and whirlwinds? Oh wait, your hit chances will be low with lower attack rating.
I think I lost you on the "BTals+BBelt" part. :embarassed:
Is Slow Missiles considered bm ? (Just a question, I am no pvp, but I found some pvp threads really insightful).
Google pictures with "BTals" and "bugged belt" you should find a picture of a wicked Tal Rasha's Armor and a Siggard's Stealth belt, with wicked stats. Also, yes, Slow Missiles IS pretty BM versus a BONER. It literally makes him need to tele on top of his target and spam like hell and if he gets lucky, he gains a kill. Slow missiles makes all projectiles (arrows, fballs, bone spears/spirits) crawl.
Sorry @ double-post. Some mod maybe edit these together?
mainaman
27-03-2006, 20:39
Fortitude/Duress does make a difference when wearing Widowmaker, and Widowmaker alone changes a lot. Personally I use Widowmaker versus ES sorcs, but Widowmaker+Fortitude versus Hammerdins only, since I need to use a +120% lightning resistances armor to negate conviction versus fohers. Also I suck at dueling ele druids with Fortitude, so I prefer enigma. But, I can tell from the experiences that I've had, that Duress is good with Widowmaker, Fortitude is even better (<3 to finish off that 1 last hp from people with widowmaker :P). I used to duel hammerdins without Fortitude/Duress, but then the Widowmaker's dmg sucked. That belt seems fine to me, but personally, I would go with a TGod as your base belt, so that you can use TGod+Fortitude versus Javazons and/or fohers :P Also saves you 2 stash spaces, since you will not have TGod+Str belt, but only TGod :P Also, I remade my old BvC so that he is now able to wear TGod+Fortitude and a Enigma Archon plate without gloves.
As for pumping Str, I suggest either base or 63-65 depending from the stats of your torch/anni, mine are 18 stats and 20 stats so 65 base. But, it's all up to you if you want to totally destroy javazons (with forti+tgod they barely tickle you), or if you rather want to have a little bit more ow and life.
about the 120 light res armor how do you duel fohers, ssuming they tele arround- widowmaker all the time, till they come close to you for ww?
about the 120 light res armor how do you duel fohers, ssuming they tele arround- widowmaker all the time, till they come close to you for ww?
With my 6k life, I can just stand still and spam Guided arrows for as long as I want. Usually it's the foher that gets bored, comes close to me to foh me, I switch to beast+grief and ww :P So far haven't lost to any fohers using this setup.
Oh, and most fohers on EUSCNL use Bugged Tal Rasha's Armor instead of Enigma, and thus have high DR (the best ones have at least 45% DR), and high block.
mainaman
27-03-2006, 21:13
With my 6k life, I can just stand still and spam Guided arrows for as long as I want. Usually it's the foher that gets bored, comes close to me to foh me, I switch to beast+grief and ww :P So far haven't lost to any fohers using this setup.
Oh, and most fohers on EUSCNL use Bugged Tal Rasha's Armor instead of Enigma, and thus have high DR (the best ones have at least 45% DR), and high block.
and just to make sure i understood you well you prebuff with treachery too?
Wow this thread got a lot of attention fast (lol).
Ya the thing is that I wanted to base my str around not having gloves equiped so I have the option of trangs if needed over Dracs and since I am on ladder str on boots is not going to happen. Maybe I will base my str on the 20 from Thundergod to be on the safe side on the belt switch rather then the 26 from the rare belt just in case.
The idea of a 160/60 armor is interesting, how many frames faster does the 160% IAS actually provide since if you are not shooting more then twice as much fortitude sorta seems a better choice for the other mods and resists against foh'rs. I mean there is only so much room in that small stash.
and just to make sure i understood you well you prebuff with treachery too?
Yes, I sometimes prebuff with Treachery, depending from what kind of gear the foher has. Without Anyas or Treachery I have 22+49+120+95+60=346 light res. 346-250-25-25=46. So If I see a foher, who uses a Foh scepter, I do use Treachery prebuff, mostly. But then again, I can just go with high lords and not use Treachery (less ar but at least 81 light res).
On Ladder you might not need all this resistance gear, since a few people have perfect 5/5 faceted griffon's or 25/25 scepters. But for the people who do, you want to have a 120/life armor, mine is a 120/83.
Romper Stomper
28-03-2006, 06:14
Waste of time, pure fohers never have good defense, pose zero problem at close range, and charge is pathetically easy to teleport on. Use light res rings and teleport and munch them in seconds.
DannarHetoshi
28-03-2006, 09:36
Waste of time, pure fohers never have good defense, pose zero problem at close range, and charge is pathetically easy to teleport on. Use light res rings and teleport and munch them in seconds.
160 lite res shield (Jewelers of Deflection)
60 all res natural resistence
30 all res arreats
35 all res metalgrid
20 all res torch
20 all res anni
10 all res fcr ring x2.
345, good ar to hit an foher, faster cast rate to catch them with enigma, and a ebotdz to kill them once I hit them... 345 - 300 = 45 lite resistence, cash in for rare boots with +30 lite res, and your set at 75, and can own any foher... no need to use a bow, no need to use fortitude.
Google pictures with "BTals" and "bugged belt" you should find a picture of a wicked Tal Rasha's Armor and a Siggard's Stealth belt, with wicked stats.
-.-'' Impressive. But how many of those items are supposed to exist ? I never saw one although I've been playing d2/lod for quite a bit. The Siggard should be 1.10+ though, because its .09 name was Nosferatu's Coil right ? I used that on my bowazon, but switched to other because Coil slowed down and desynched...
Anyway, just as a collateral thought, while tgod and Raven are in the game and are supposed to have the stats they have, these were not intended to be part of the game in the first place, but maybe I am biased because I am almost only pvm. Thanks for the info Ce Olba.
Also, yes, Slow Missiles IS pretty BM versus a BONER. It literally makes him need to tele on top of his target and spam like hell and if he gets lucky, he gains a kill. Slow missiles makes all projectiles (arrows, fballs, bone spears/spirits) crawl.
I think I get your point. I find Slow Missiles very useful in pvm, but why Slow Missiles is considered bm while using Holy Freeze aura is not (afaik, reading some various threads) ? After all, in the latter case you slow your enemy, in the former you slow his/her projectiles :tongue:
Bye
-.-'' Impressive. But how many of those items are supposed to exist ? I never saw one although I've been playing d2/lod for quite a bit. The Siggard should be 1.10+ though, because its .09 name was Nosferatu's Coil right ? I used that on my bowazon, but switched to other because Coil slowed down and desynched...
Anyway, just as a collateral thought, while tgod and Raven are in the game and are supposed to have the stats they have, these were not intended to be part of the game in the first place, but maybe I am biased because I am almost only pvm. Thanks for the info Ce Olba.
I've been both of those items multiple times, and two of my friend's have posessed both of them. The richest people on NL build characters with BTals, BBelt, Shako and Max block, so that they have max dr, max block, and only lose 20% fcr. Ad for fohers, most are Zaka+BTals+BBelt+3/25/25+Griffon, so they have max block, max dr, damn high dmg (+10%/-10% from sockets in Zaka and BTals). But still, with the setup I use, I've not lost to ANY pure foher build, but I have lost to a few T/V's or V/T's, since most of them use grief+exile+draculs+btals+bbelt+griffon/shako and have high dmg foh and max dr/block. But seriously the hardest of all v/t's are the ones with enigma, since when I negate their foh, they tele-smite me, but they are still beatable. And Romper, I don't get how come fohers have "crap def" ? They can max holy shield and use 9x PC sks, and yes, they WILL have over 7594 defense, but not as much defense as smiters, but still higher/as high as hammerdins.
I think I get your point. I find Slow Missiles very useful in pvm, but why Slow Missiles is considered bm while using Holy Freeze aura is not (afaik, reading some various threads) ? After all, in the latter case you slow your enemy, in the former you slow his/her projectiles :tongue:
Well, slowing down your opponent is fine, when they can still kill you easily, but; how are you going to kill something when it takes 10 seconds for 1 of those projectiles to move 1 screen? Those can easily be dodged, unless the caster teles on top, and that's when the caster does a suicide dive. But this is probably why most people just go to Akara once they get Slow Missiled. Personally, if a boner will need walls to beat me (either to negate my ww's or my guideds), I will NOT hesitate on getting a Sanctuary and Slow Missiling them and then beating them. Yes, I am too skilless to beat a good necro who camps in their walls with zerk/conc, so I prefer not to duel ones who need walls to beat me. Just yesterday my friend, who used a boner, said he needed to use walls against me because I USED WIDOWMAKER. Now that's hilarious. I mean, widowmaker on my barb does approx 41 dmg to his bone armor, not counting the 500 ow, and with carrions in use, I only have 25% ow. Yet he cried out loud because of OW killing him. After a long conversation I got him to admit that there's no way that he could ever totally dominate my BvC with a boner, because he just doesn't have the skill needed for it.
160 lite res shield (Jewelers of Deflection)
60 all res natural resistence
30 all res arreats
35 all res metalgrid
20 all res torch
20 all res anni
10 all res fcr ring x2.
345, good ar to hit an foher, faster cast rate to catch them with enigma, and a ebotdz to kill them once I hit them... 345 - 300 = 45 lite resistence, cash in for rare boots with +30 lite res, and your set at 75, and can own any foher... no need to use a bow, no need to use fortitude.
Mmm. Why would a BvC use a block shield? Rather a perfect Jeweller's of the Whale for the +100 life. Also, with a shield, you lose your other weapon, which cripples your barb a lot. I know from experience that there is a VERY CLEAR difference when using enigma+160 shield (charge desynch>that), or a 120 armor+widow/grief+beast (widow>them). Also, with a 160 shield, you will not be able to use a Coa BerBer with your TGod, unless you have boots with +str and high base str. Also, 10 all res from fcr rings is crap, if you want to use rings, use 2x +6x% light res ones with +1xx ar, to have some decent ar and to have more lightning resistances. Also, having only 75 resistances with perf torch/anni is crap, my barb easily gets to 90 light resistances and his torch/anni each give +11 all res, but then again, he uses a orted kiras wtih total +95% light res (95-40=55). But then again, using an Arreat won't cripple my barb to death, but then he will need Anya's and Fade to get 406 light res, with Highlord, which is enough to negate ALMOST anything (except 20/20 shield+20/20 armor+perf griffon+foh scep), and even with a 20/20 armor he would still be at 66 light res. Also, using a Metalgrid is not bad, but highlord also gives +35% light res and huge deadly strike, but if you have ar problems (light res rings), metagrid>highlord.
oneBlast
28-03-2006, 18:14
you've lost couple of times to a mage too Ce Olba (not a best one, but I'm still equipping him :))
Now for the subject:
Fort is a MUST if you plan on using widow.
I have a lvl 95 bvc with widow, but without fort - that's a waste, believe me.
Oh, and most fohers on EUSCNL use Bugged Tal Rasha's Armor instead of Enigma, and thus have high DR (the best ones have at least 45% DR), and high block.
yeah thats rite so hes style of play would work cuz they usally charge around and foh at best.
But ur wrong about ladder as the foh stick with facets + griffons is standard issue for any foh build on ladder.
Also about the fortitude on my pure vita build i did fine without the forti armour and just relied on enigma.
Having forti for the bow also helps dmg but at one stage i never had no bow and i was still killing hammerdins.
you've lost couple of times to a mage too Ce Olba (not a best one, but I'm still equipping him :))
Now for the subject:
Fort is a MUST if you plan on using widow.
I have a lvl 95 bvc with widow, but without fort - that's a waste, believe me.
Mm? Lost to a mage? The only mages I remember dueling were magefists and Zaczku. And I'm very sure you aren't Zaczku, so that leaves magefists or someone who I do not remember. Yes, I have lost to mages, but not to any FOHERS since my re-make.
oneBlast
29-03-2006, 02:59
Mm? Lost to a mage? The only mages I remember dueling were magefists and Zaczku. And I'm very sure you aren't Zaczku, so that leaves magefists or someone who I do not remember. Yes, I have lost to mages, but not to any FOHERS since my re-make.
You're right, I'm "magefists".
TBH, zaczku's guide made me to create my own mage :)
Now I'm working to get him to lvl 96+ -.-
You're right, I'm "magefists".
TBH, zaczku's guide made me to create my own mage :)
Now I'm working to get him to lvl 96+ -.-
well hello, magefists, had some neat duels there, but now my barb is higher lvl (91 and still going to exp him for the rest of the week), so I hope we could duel more at some point, specially once I'm done with my barb's charms (going to try to get him 3x 13x/3x ar/life gc's), and maybe we will have a more accurate outcome.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.