best necro for PvM [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

HarbingersOfSkulls

27-03-2006, 02:45

It's like this:

If your starting with nothing at all...summoner is the way to go.

If you have a little equipment...but no runewords...summoner is still the way to go.

If you have godly gear or ebay for your items...then either a sorc or hammer pally would be just as good as a summoner.

It also depends on what you want to do with the character as well...if your going to be mfing hell baal...then any of the three would be good...though I would lean with the hammer pally or summoner.

Most other characters that start untwinked...with nothing at all...will have a hard time leveing compared to a summoner or hammer build or even the sorc for that matter...because most are item dependant...while these three are less item dependant.

HoS

garion

27-03-2006, 03:04

is there any char even another class as good as necro PvM? the summon necro im talking

hmm...neds lots of expensive gear but...

sorcs - not as versatile...less teh yahve infinity...and very fragile

hammerdins - probably the best PvM out there...can murder in 8 player games

summoner - is awesome in 1-4 player games..but halts to a grind in 8 player games...takes much longer to kill :undecided: ...but i mostly solo..so i like the lag insurance i carry around with me (my 40 + minions :grin: )

garion

27-03-2006, 03:06

there are some pretty wicked amazons out there too...

true...Fury zons are probably the best in cows (can can't accidentally kill the king - unless you have a infinity merc =P)

fordraceingman

27-03-2006, 17:28

so for someone thats poor the summer is on top of even for the rich, summer is still on top but with a few others

PuppMaster

27-03-2006, 20:10

Summoner is the way to go, a sort of difficult build at first, if you dont know what you're doing, but once you start getting +skill items and maxing out your skills, its one of the best PvM builds in the game.
It amazes me that necros are the most under-appreciated chars in the game though.

elmek

27-03-2006, 20:33

When you have the correct gear (and I mean Enigma, Death's web, 3-piece trang, Maras, stuff like that) imo poison necro rocks the house. Soooo much faster than a plain summoner (one of the fastest mob killers around actually) and really enjoyable.

PsychoNight

27-03-2006, 20:58

Yeah, poison necro is THE killer. With uber gear, he's probably as fast as hammerdins =)

fordraceingman

27-03-2006, 21:31

they not very good w/o uber gear? also how is the poison vs PvP? is there any druid or barb that compares to the summon PvM?

elmek

28-03-2006, 01:01

Poison necro needs -enemy poison resist mod in gear to be effective and +skills. This first sweet mod is granted by Death's web, 3 piece trang and poison facets. Poison necro is also good for PvP. There have been a lot of threads on this topic, use a search function to get anything u need.

Evrae Altana

28-03-2006, 02:37

Bah. Any necro can tear apart PvM, if they have that amazing skill called Corpse Explosion that is. :wink3:

The Future now

28-03-2006, 06:00

I agree with the poster who praised CE, its always been one of my favorite skills. When maxed it has incredible range.

elmek

28-03-2006, 10:41

CE is effective indeed, but dramatically looses it's power in large multiplayer games. Still useful though...

AnimeCraze

28-03-2006, 10:47

It doesn't lose power, until you run out of bodies. They should allow necros to carry meat wagons.

elmek

28-03-2006, 12:31

It does, as CE uses base monster hit points, not the increased one depending on how many players are in the game.

nNemethon

28-03-2006, 14:22

I've been making Summoners since my very first char (I liked the idea then and LOVE it now). Still one of my fav chars to run with. Until you get a baal run, raise one skelly and rancid noobs yelll OMG! LAAAAG! lol, the clods just don't get it. :)

And yes, they used to be seen as useful for curses only, but now, when i have even 4 skels out in 8 player hell games, it's amazing how many pple hide behind thier tanking while yealling unsummon... so I do... so then all hell breaks out and pple die. Funny as anything. :) Also combined with the massive range of curses (nothing like 10 f-keys filled with curses only :D) A uge CE radius and you end up competing with the pure blizzers and dins for pure damage. (Also consider Dim Vision a HUGE life saver for the peeps with low light res against gloams/souls)

In mfing - one of the top 3 (incl. Hdin and Sorce). Make 1 kill and boom go the rest with CE. Minion stack on a boss and he is toast in no-time and is STILL fun to watch after countless thousands of runs over 3+ years. And, for HC players in particular, to quote Garion "Lag Insurance".... rules. :P

Remaking my Summon/Pois nec atm and so only have 2 slots left in my nec-only account. :P (gah - need trang wing n/l or Infin on ladder) ><

Cheers

nNem

PS. They rock in Nihils temple. Tele on him and he goes down FAST!

Thrandir

28-03-2006, 20:35

Hmm. For best PvM, I had an interesting strategy. I'm mostly a single player person, so I could be way behind the times, but I always liked the Golemmancer strategy. Three parts:

-My Golem, who takes obscene amounts of damage. Usually all the damage, because he runs out in front.

-My Rogue, who deals obscene amounts of damage (I eventually got her a good runeworded bow for that, and saved up damage-enhancer jewels to stick in her armor and helm, which already added elemental dmg)

-Me, who recasts the golem as necessary, decreps, and CE's. And Bone cage, Bone Spirits bosses.

It worked really well. I solo'd all through hell without too much difficulty. And btw, he and all his gear are completely legit. I don't like hacks, they just take away from the game.

I'm also trying out the Acolyte build (20 in Teeth, BSprear, BSpirit, BWall and BCage) for PvM. Hopefully, it will be as effective in PvM as it is in PvP.

garion

28-03-2006, 20:55

It does, as CE uses base monster hit points, not the increased one depending on how many players are in the game.

this has been my experience...in 8 player games...CEing 2-3 bodies can't even take outa pack....compared to single player where one CE is enough...:shocked: .

garion

28-03-2006, 21:00

Remaking my Summon/Pois nec atm and so only have 2 slots left in my nec-only account. :P (gah - need trang wing n/l or Infin on ladder) ><

would love to hear more about this...thinking of deleting a char to make one...:laugh: ...i made a bone/summoner (but rarely use the bone skills - max bspear/spirit...doesn't have that much punch in hell :undecided: )

would like to see how a psnancer/summoner hyrbid works...(Even a toned down psnancer should be more useful :grin: ....i hope)

AnimeCraze

28-03-2006, 21:54

It does, as CE uses base monster hit points, not the increased one depending on how many players are in the game.Remember that no other skill other than static increases damage with number of players neither. CE is doing just as much damage (until you run out of corpses, hence my meat wagon comment). Enemy HP goes up is not less damage dealt.

Necrochild313

28-03-2006, 22:56

A well built venomancer clear areas faster than a well built hammerdin

The Future now

29-03-2006, 00:19

It doesn't lose power, until you run out of bodies. They should allow necros to carry meat wagons.

Ha! That'd be awesome, start by throwing a few rancid corpses into their ranks and then *BOOM!*

elmek

29-03-2006, 00:22

Remember that no other skill other than static increases damage with number of players neither. CE is doing just as much damage (until you run out of corpses, hence my meat wagon comment). Enemy HP goes up is not less damage dealt.
I agree with you that the same amout of damage is dealt. I meant that the amount is not so effective in large multiplayer games.

A well built venomancer clear areas faster than a well built hammerdin
That's very truth. Especially when it comes to those goblin casters, soul killers and other small, quick enemies. :thumbsup:

Necrochild313

29-03-2006, 00:47

That's very truth. Especially when it comes to those goblin casters, soul killers and other small, quick enemies. :thumbsup:

Indeed, I'd like to see a hammerdin do an area clearing run faster than a poison necro. Hammers are good at Baal runs, however, but that's about the only thing they outrace a venomancer at (considering that they can spam their hammers so that they're present before the minions get summoned).

garion

29-03-2006, 00:47

Especially when it comes to those goblin casters, soul killers and other small, quick enemies. :thumbsup:

aka "pests" =P

granted a dream/dream gets rid of them too...but i would still like to give a psnancer a try...starting the reading through of one of the psn/summon hybrid guide =P

Necrochild313

29-03-2006, 01:07

granted a dream/dream gets rid of them too

With a dream/dream hoj/dragon merc you don't even need a character.

Boomba

29-03-2006, 06:47

ya im reading through the psn/summoner guide seems interesting. would these guys do well in pvp as well? i mean summon stack+enimga+psn dmg......??

nNemethon

29-03-2006, 15:10

would love to hear more about this...thinking of deleting a char to make one...:laugh: ...i made a bone/summoner (but rarely use the bone skills - max bspear/spirit...doesn't have that much punch in hell :undecided: )

would like to see how a psnancer/summoner hyrbid works...(Even a toned down psnancer should be more useful :grin: ....i hope)

I have yet to make a bone/summon mix, but My new pois/summon is just hitting 41 and I'm running manually thru nm and hell. He just hit blood moor with stats:

Pois Nova Dmg: 213-254 (V weak atm, but still is faster than I can clear with summon/CE variant.
Skels: 11
Skel Dmg: 150-152
Skel Life: 470

Now most of you will see this as a well overpowered NM Blood Moor'er. :P I just keep running, spamming Lower res, PNova twice then amp and by that stage I'm well past ad my skels have just mopped up the last straggler. I'm rather impressed as my old Pois/Summon did no where near this nastiness at this level. (He was early 1.10 and fairly... messed up) :)

Next to make will be a Venommancer on ladder with Infin runeword (sigh - oneday will make) :D (I just found Ohm and Cham this week at Shenk so by far my most profitable 3 months EVER! :D )

I'm on NL with guy on USWest so if you wanna see him run, yodel me (PM), Garion (or ne1 looking into this build) and we can bump heads.

Cheers nNem

PuppMaster

29-03-2006, 19:57

Bah. Any necro can tear apart PvM, if they have that amazing skill called Corpse Explosion that is. :wink3:

i shred PvM w/o CE, grant it, it may take a lot longer, but i still get the job done

Evrae Altana

30-03-2006, 00:37

i shred PvM w/o CE, grant it, it may take a lot longer, but i still get the job doneTry out Corpse Explosion and you'll see what the real meaning of "shredding PvM" is.

garion

30-03-2006, 01:10

I have yet to make a bone/summon mix, but My new pois/summon is just hitting 41 and I'm running manually thru nm and hell. He just hit blood moor with stats:

Pois Nova Dmg: 213-254 (V weak atm, but still is faster than I can clear with summon/CE variant.
Skels: 11
Skel Dmg: 150-152
Skel Life: 470

Now most of you will see this as a well overpowered NM Blood Moor'er. :P I just keep running, spamming Lower res, PNova twice then amp and by that stage I'm well past ad my skels have just mopped up the last straggler. I'm rather impressed as my old Pois/Summon did no where near this nastiness at this level. (He was early 1.10 and fairly... messed up) :)

Next to make will be a Venommancer on ladder with Infin runeword (sigh - oneday will make) :D (I just found Ohm and Cham this week at Shenk so by far my most profitable 3 months EVER! :D )

I'm on NL with guy on USWest so if you wanna see him run, yodel me (PM), Garion (or ne1 looking into this build) and we can bump heads.

Cheers nNem

just started mine last night lol....still very weak...no psn skills yet

just 3 into skeles, 1 into clay, 1 golem mastery, 1 into amp, 1 into CE, into mages

planning on getting 1 pt into summon res, 1pt into lower res (is this even worth maxing for a about another -10 res?...i felt that this was better spent on something else...)

planning to max skeles, max skele mastery, psn nova, psn explosion/dagger (not sure which one yet...perhaps even both)...

basically building a summoner with psn skills....hope this works out...:shocked:

PuppMaster

30-03-2006, 02:38

Try out Corpse Explosion and you'll see what the real meaning of "shredding PvM" is.

i did try CE way back when i was in norm w/ a wand. and it wasnt for me. i do respect it though, but like i said its not for me

AnimeCraze

30-03-2006, 03:13

i did try CE way back when i was in norm w/ a wand. and it wasnt for me. i do respect it though, but like i said its not for meTry CE with insight. Also try it with +10 skills instead of from a crappy wand. For more dramatic difference, try it in hell cows. I know for a fact that 28/28 skeles doesn't last that long in cows if you don't use CE at all. Your comment reminds me of sorcs that don't get teleport or static, and complain that static sucks.

@garion: Don't max LR. The return is so small.

garion

30-03-2006, 03:19

i did try CE way back when i was in norm w/ a wand. and it wasnt for me. i do respect it though, but like i said its not for me

CE is truly powerful in single player...with just 1 pt and +20 skill points...hell cows are a cinch (and ideal proving ground for CE)...

i mosly use CE to take down packs...and try to only CE bodies i don't want to revive (champs and bosses have a nice punch :evil: )...i would highly reccomend it...i use amp as my main curse (indirect offensive spell) and CE as my main offensive spell...:grin:

also the wand may have sucked because the AOE (area of effect) was proabbly too small...maybe only a few yards....

animecraze: yah thats what i was thinking...rather try to max another skill (10 skill points for just -10 more psn res...seems like a waste)...thanks! :thumbsup:

AnimeCraze

30-03-2006, 03:30

I have 1 point in LR, and have +skills making it lvl 12. Using a poison/summon hybrid now, and my nova is clearing Chaos even faster than my CE with my old summoner (he didn't have beast or pride though), now that I got dweb (still no pride, using obedience on merc). Still using full trangs, and probably not going to change that for style points. I don't have any skillers yet (other than torch), but if I found some for cheap, I will take it. As for skill points left over, I practically have none since I went for 1 point revive and 1 in all curses.

Even after this, CE still has its uses occasionly :wink3: . (in particular against unbreakable poison immunes)

kingdryland

30-03-2006, 04:15

A well built venomancer clear areas faster than a well built hammerdin

That's true for the most part but the beaty (or disgust if you prefer) of hammers is that practically nothing is immune against them. A fast psn nova necro is impressive but to get the best out of it you need big funds. Among the most expensive pvm builds...

PuppMaster

30-03-2006, 04:45

Try CE with insight. Also try it with +10 skills instead of from a crappy wand. For more dramatic difference, try it in hell cows. I know for a fact that 28/28 skeles doesn't last that long in cows if you don't use CE at all. Your comment reminds me of sorcs that don't get teleport or static, and complain that static sucks.

i never said CE sucks, in fact i admitted that it was pretty good. i just stated its not for me. u might not think skells last long, but for me, they do. so until i actually see my stratagy starting to lack in its performance, im sticking with it.

AnimeCraze

30-03-2006, 06:13

i never said CE sucks, in fact i admitted that it was pretty good. i just stated its not for me. u might not think skells last long, but for me, they do. so until i actually see my stratagy starting to lack in its performance, im sticking with it.I know how long they last, since I had a pure summoner before as well. I pat the guy at beginning of season 3, and he was one of my first 2 character. I hell cowed with him as well, and CE and revive in hell cows was absolutely necessary with my funds then (ie. no beast, pride, bramble, or other uber runewods). The thing is, the poorer you are, the more you need to rely on CE. If you have many HR's to get the listed runewords, you probably don't need CE nearly as much.

Anyways, have you pat and hell cowed your char yet? From what I saw in the older posts, he seems to be at NM.

PuppMaster

30-03-2006, 07:36

I know how long they last, since I had a pure summoner before as well. I pat the guy at beginning of season 3, and he was one of my first 2 character. I hell cowed with him as well, and CE and revive in hell cows was absolutely necessary with my funds then (ie. no beast, pride, bramble, or other uber runewods). The thing is, the poorer you are, the more you need to rely on CE. If you have many HR's to get the listed runewords, you probably don't need CE nearly as much.

Anyways, have you pat and hell cowed your char yet? From what I saw in the older posts, he seems to be at NM.

actually, im in hell now, ive been there for about a week, but lately i discovered the usefullness of MF, so ive been going on a lot of MF runs and trading instead of actually gaming. but now im in hell and on lvl 74, and i just got the v1.09 unique head (i think their official name is trophy). so i guess the sidetrak ive been on wasnt just 4 nothing.

PS
i think i am going to crack, :prop:
i just might start putting levels into my curses.:scratch:

AnimeCraze

30-03-2006, 07:44

Created human (midgets), that's what it is called (Homunculus).

elmek

30-03-2006, 08:49

Among the most expensive pvm builds...
A decent Dweb cost roughly the same as HoTO for a Hammerdin. Rest of the items are pretty similiar except that 3 piece trang is way cheaper than double upped magesists, arachnid and Zaka. Not mentioning about skillers.
Taking that into account I wouldn't say that poison necro is so expensive. He is gear dependant for sure but there are more expensive builds around.

nNemethon

30-03-2006, 11:43

@Garion: Yep, Lower res is another 1 point wonder. It may not break pois immunes, but lowers thier def anyway. For those I run amp and wait for the skeles to tow one under then hit with CE (1 point wonder for this build). Althouh I am undecided as yet to do PDagger/Expl/Nova build, 20 skels and rest into mastery, or to do 2 pois's and do the skels thing.

Oh found hit with LR, then nova, then amp, the ce... fast, faaast until the pois dmg starts to increase from +skills and syns. Te poblem tho, that is how I run a pure summoner and am trying to steer away from using CE all the time. :)

CE rules in up to 4 player games when maxed and in higher games, still a top skill. Nice radius and combined with amp, tears holes in most things. CE does suck a bit tho when skill is under lev 10 for the radius.

In 8 player hell games, it compares to the hdins and sorcies for dmg rates but only if above lev 10. As each CE takes a chunk out of the living, the dmg is scaling until 3-4 drop in one hit. And if someone is running conviction.... mmmmmm :)

*Edit: spel goode did I! ;) fixed

elmek

30-03-2006, 13:04

...It may not break pois immunes, but lowers thier def anyway...
Lvl 10+ breaks most poison immunes, not all though as some cannot be broken. I agree that it's useful for CE as well as it lowers fire res at the same time. :grin:

nNemethon

30-03-2006, 15:51

Lvl 10+ breaks most poison immunes, not all though as some cannot be broken. I agree that it's useful for CE as well as it lowers fire res at the same time. :grin:

Yup, sorry - ya got me. :azn: Won't break the 'unbreakables'... ^^

Another thinking of mine recently (prolly been asked x times already) For some monsters would LR be better for CE than amp. Amp will double, 3x, 4x etc the phys dmg depending on the phys immunity level relatively whereas LR will lower fire ressies x%. At what point would LR overtake Amp for sheer CE dmg?

*Note: Granted you'd have to remeber basically all monsters phys/fire res levs norm->hell and then calculate in your LR% all in a fraction of a sec... Hmmm... Might stick with amp unless they p immune! :D

So far MY P/Summon nec's at lev 54 and reaves the masses with just pois + LR. My skels clean up after me and by that stage I've hit the next mob. Almost no stopping bar when I hit high ressers and/or champs/bosses. (LOVE CE!) :)

He is looking to beat my pure summoner for speed/damage.. Might have a new winner on the block. :P

kingdryland

30-03-2006, 16:11

A decent Dweb cost roughly the same as HoTO for a Hammerdin. Rest of the items are pretty similiar except that 3 piece trang is way cheaper than double upped magesists, arachnid and Zaka. Not mentioning about skillers.
Taking that into account I wouldn't say that poison necro is so expensive. He is gear dependant for sure but there are more expensive builds around.

You didn't get the point of my post.

Both hammerdin and novamancer have enigma as ideal armor. Hammerdin has a wide variety of secondary options,which are cheap (uped vipermagi,guardian angel etc). Novamancer will have to go with bramble,since teleport/frw is the main reason of prefering enigma over the huge damage boost from bramble.
Hoto and death's web can be of equal price, but the novamancer will need a good deal of skillers and/or facets too. And in the end,you can make a very effective pvm hammerdin with pgems worth of gear, something totally impossible with a novamancer. The starting price for this build to be pvm effective is really really high.

elmek

30-03-2006, 17:08

You didn't get the point of my post.

Both hammerdin and novamancer have enigma as ideal armor. Hammerdin has a wide variety of secondary options,which are cheap (uped vipermagi,guardian angel etc). Novamancer will have to go with bramble,since teleport/frw is the main reason of prefering enigma over the huge damage boost from bramble.
Hoto and death's web can be of equal price, but the novamancer will need a good deal of skillers and/or facets too. And in the end,you can make a very effective pvm hammerdin with pgems worth of gear, something totally impossible with a novamancer. The starting price for this build to be pvm effective is really really high.
Agreed :thumbsup:
Not a build for starters, that's for sure.