WW does not work with str bug?

[zeskelnec]

Unable to find an answer with search tool on that.

Weapon : Rare silver edge axe. Req 166 str
Barb has 153 str
Wears charms of strength to meet str req.
When removing 1 charm, and falls under 166 str, the barb is unable to WW.

I thought that the str bug had only an impact on the recovery of corpse but not on the use of skills.
Are there other affected skills ?
Plz comment, I have to /w the guy on bnet who suffers from this.

[Dadou]

First, if someone has a problem, i suggest he comes directly here, and not ask someone to ask on the forums, so that he can be answered... Way simpler, and avoids distortions and misinterpretations.

The answers are :
- The str bug doesn't apply to a skill, but to items. I think you (or he) didn't understand what the str bug is. The str bug has NO impact for the player. It's just that other players will see him with no weapon or naked. Considering corpse recovery, it has nothing to do with str bug, just str req.

- If he can't WW when removing 1 str charm, does it mean that he put no plain point in WW, and uses it from an item he cannot wear w/o the str charm ?

[Terenas]

As far as I can tell, the correct way for strength requirements to work would be:
a) Your axe has got 166 str req to equip and use.
b) You reach 166 str with charms, gear, whatever. You are thus able to equip and use the weapon.
c) If you remove +str items your str decreases, the previously equipped item stays in place (I think to avoid the accidental loss of said item) but its background becomes highlighted in red, thus indicating that a) you no longer satisfy the item reqs and b) that, as you no longer qualify to equip the item, you cannot use it as well.
After all, if you do not have enough str, you would not have been able to equip it in the first place, so it sounds fair that you cannot use the item if you do not actively satisfy its reqs.

I may give you an example:
Hammerdin, 60 str, wearing HoZ (req 89 str), Eni mp (55 str req), Eth Sandstorm (? req).
If I take off enigma and Sandstorm, my strength falls under 89, Hoz stays in place but:
1) the shield window turns red, on char screen I cannot see chance to block anymore
2) the str bonus on hoz cannot be gained, because the shield is not 'equipped', it is there, but not 'active'.
3) As a test I tried to take hoz off, and I tried to re-equip. As a result re-equipping was impossible because I had no str enough.

I knew that other players do not see any piece of gear you do not have enough natural stats to wear.
But try to check what you see. If you do not see a piece of equipment you have in place, it seems to me very possible that you are not using it, therefore you cannot use any skill nor action related to that item (not even normal attack, you would be attacking, but possibly bashing monsters with bare hands).

This is based on my personal experience, I suggest you to see if some knowledgeable pal here can confirm/criticize.

bye

[Cosentino]

First, if someone has a problem, i suggest he comes directly here, and not ask someone to ask on the forums, so that he can be answered... Way simpler, and avoids distortions and misinterpretations.

The answers are :
- The str bug doesn't apply to a skill, but to items. I think you (or he) didn't understand what the str bug is. The str bug has NO impact for the player. It's just that other players will see him with no weapon or naked. Considering corpse recovery, it has nothing to do with str bug, just str req.

- If he can't WW when removing 1 str charm, does it mean that he put no plain point in WW, and uses it from an item he cannot wear w/o the str charm ?

This answer is correct but it's not the whole truth. The term Str Bugged is used to apply to two different things.

1. When a player must put on an item that gives them strength in order to pick up their body, they are considered str bugged. For Instance, say you have base 30str, 20Torch, 20Anni giving you 70str. To be able to wear, say a Magic Dusk Shroud that adds +10 Strength, you'd have to put on something such as a +7Str ring to bring you up to the required 77str. Because this particular armor adds +10str (Giving you 87Str), after it's equipped you can remove the ring and the armor will stay equipped because you'd still have 80Str. Once you died however, you wouldn't be able to pick up your body without the 7str from the ring. Had the armor gave you less than 7str, oonce the ring was removed you'd no longer have the str to keep the armor equipped so you wouldnt receive any of the bonuses the item might give.

2. The second type of strength bugging, refers to appearing naked because without the use of charms in your backpack, you wouldn't have enough str to wear your gear. For instance, take my current BvB barb. He has 126 Baaste Str. Without the 19stats from my anni and the 19stats from my torch, I wouldn't be able to equip any of my items since I wear an up'd eth arreats, rends, and sacred fort. After you take into account the 38extra strengtth I now have 164st, enough to wear my SS, which adds another 30 strength for a total of 194. That's enough strength to wear my rends which add another 18 (212) which lets me wear my eth up'd arreats which adds 20 more for a total of 232 which lets me wear my sacred fort. Because of the fact that I can't wear any of my gear without having my charms on, I'll appear naked to other players. I will however, be able to pick up my body if I die.

Most of the time example number 1 is frowned upon and considered BM. The main reason I wouldn't recommend strength bugging this way is because say you die in a PK game, you put on the item that gives you strength, then youre NKd. Now you'd have two bodies with items on them and should you be continuously NKd or booted for some reason, then you'd lose whatever items were on one of the bodies.

The second example, which is more prevalent, is considered intelligent because every stat point was planned out to maximize life. Most barbs, because of the strength reqs and stats on the most popular gear, will appear naked.

I hope this helped explain strength bugging to those who weren't sure what it was.

[zeskelnec]

What I understood from str bug is:

When you do not reach the base str or dex req for an item, u use other items that provide this supplementary str or dex, like boots, gloves or charms in that case, in order to put the item on.
Once the Item is on, you can remove the charms, the background of the item turns red, but you can use your Item (in that case the axe) as normal, meaning same dmg, same speed, despite the fact that the "Lying Screen display" lies in giving lower dmg information.

Up to now, is this correct ?

Indeed it appears to party players that the char is hitting barefist. In this case, the players was complaining that himself could not WW nor see his weapon.

Now the character dies, it will not be able to recover his item from the corpse unless he put the charms to give enough str (this is why I mention the impact on corpse recovery, knowing that people lost an enigma after death + disconnection).

Thx for your answers.

EDIT: SOrry Cosentino, was replying during your posting and did not see it.
To be clear, the str bug works only when you put item with + str to be able to wear Items which provide also enough str to remain.
In another clear way to ask the question: When the background of an ITEM is red, after putting it with +str items and remove the +str items, the ITEM is innefficient ? That would explain that WW is not working with naked fist.

[Nimbostratus]

No, the strength bug only works when the item you're trying to equip has strength bonus, which would give you enough strength to equip it. If there isn't a strength bonus on the item, and you take off your +strength gear and fall below the requirements, the item gets unequipped, even though it still appears to be equipped on the inventory screen.

Here's a couple examples:

Strength Bug Successful:
-Player A wants to equip an armor that requires 100 strength and grants 15 strength when equipped, but only has 85 base strength.
-Player A equips a helmet socketed with three couple Amethysts, which provides 18 strength, boosting his total strength to 103, enough to wear the armor.
-Player A equips the armor and removes the helmet. The armor's +15 strength holds the armor on, and Player A receives all bonuses from the armor.

Strength Bug Unsuccessful:
-Player B wants to equip an armor that requires 95 strength, but only have 85 base strength.
-Player B equips a helmet socketed with amethysts to gain enough strength to equip the armor.
-Player B removes the helmet, and his strength once again falls back to 85. The armor turns red on the inventory screen and provides NO benefit at all to Player B.



The same thing occurs with ANY kind of item which the player doesn't have enough strength or dexterity to use it.



*edit: Woah, how'd I not see your edit? O.o

[zeskelnec]

this is clear. Great thx

[Dadou]

I think we're mixing things up.
There is NO strength fact that prevents from WW-ing... whatever the weapons or with bare hands. If he can't WW, the problem comes from other thing.
For red item, you can use items or charms to equip an item that is self-efficient for stats. Best example in mind is Titans Revenge, with +20 str, and +20 dex. If you have enough str/dex to keep it equipped when you remove charms/items, you can use it (no matter your str or dex naked). If a player can't see his gear by himslef on his screen, the item is not considered equipped.
For WW, once again check if the skill comes from an item...

[zeskelnec]

@dadou, I will do. Thx

(by the way my brother's nickname is Dadou.)

[Dadou]

Eh eh, then I assume your brother must be great ;o)

Let me know if you find the solution, i'm quite curious about this now ^^