View Full Version : Eni vs CoH, Fortitude, and some others
I recently suggested someone here in the forum, who wanted to start a ww dru and build it good, to use the skills i use, to put the equipment i wear, etc.
When I stated the equipment, I said I wear a corpsemourn, and that it will hopefully be replaced with an Eni soon. One of the members said he doesn't understand why would I want to make an eni. He said Fortitude is the best choice( A thing that I can agree with, btw) for a ww dru, but what really interested me is that he said " Even CoH would be better for you than Eni".
I can't remember who it was, but since I asked him why would CoH be better for me than Eni, and he did not answer, I posted this question. Here are the explanations I gave as to why I think Eni would be a LOT, and I mean a LOT better than CoH, at least for a ww dru- "Ummm.... ok... I think I'm missing something here...
Why exactly do you think that COH would be better for me than Eni????
Eni Has the +2 sk same like coh.
But eni would come a lot more handy when talking about a ww dru if u think about it. Because unlike coh, it's got a 45% frw speed, an increase in max life 5%, and more MF than coh. The only major benefit you will gain from coh over eni is the +65 to all res(Which is a really MAJOR benefit), but in comparison to all the benefits you'll gain from eni over coh, it's not worth spending your ber over it. That's what i think though.
also, coh has another advantage over eni-the life steal. But- I'm already using Feral rage. So it's no big advantage to me.
and-Not to mention the EXTREMELY high def of eni(Gonna do it in a 3 sox Great Hauberk woth 402 def. It will become almost 1200 def if I'm not mistaking).
So please will you explain why do you think coh will be better than eni for me?
and about the "Cheap build"- This is my decision. I'm using the IK stuff for the bonuses to fury attack speed and the frw speed, and the tons of elemental dmg from the hammer when wearing all the 4 items.
I can replace those items with Sandstorm or gores for boots, and Arach or string or verdungo for belt, and if hadn't the chance to make an eni yet- Armor can be replaced with Gladiator's bane and such. Also, I don't call Hellslayer "cheap"... But-again, maybe I'm mistaking. Maybe it is. I don't know a lot about trade values so I can't really tell. Umm... Back to my question. plz explain why coh over eni.".
If any1 could answer me..... I would be glad! ^ ^
I also want to add that another reason why I wanted eni over coh(except for the 999999 reasons I said above), is that I have a really great 3 sox armor, and I was hoping I would get a jah soon, which is the only thing that I need to make this eni( have ber). Now when I look at Coh and Fortitude, I see that I can afford them now(Need to get an ist for coh but of course it's easier to get than a jah...)- But I will need a good 4 sox armor. Anyway, I can understand why forti would be a better choice for me than Eni, But Why CoH??????? Thank you.:thumbsup:
maybe the 200% enhanced dmg to demons 100% enhanced dmg to undead and the +7 rep life and ofc the resi. seems to me that most ww have low resi, for pvm i would use coh for pvp enigma, although i would use forti instead of both( 'cept if i'm having trouble catching some1 in pvp).
xpumafangx
20-03-2006, 03:31
I didn't have to read the whole thing to know all ready to tell you not to listen to that guy. Even tho I did. Get Coh first if your poor. Chains of honor is good for player vs monster and ver elemental damage users. Then get shaftstop for player vs melee. Make shure it has a perfect ruby or a ber rune in it. After that get fort for the edamage. Thats all its good for I hardly ever use the dam thing any more. Also its only good ver magic damage users. After all that get enigma in a breat plate. Thats if the people you are dueling have too much faster cast rate for you to run around they're shoots. Also the str on it will give you a large boost to your damage.
Duress is great vs ubers
My point to all that is simple each armor has a great addvantige over another for certen situations, thats all.
Now if you ever plan on using a sheild replace the shaftstop with a duress. And then forget shaftstop all together.
Also know that no matter what you do you will never have a effective def. Your def and all werewolfs def will never be high enuff to be effective so you might as well put all runwords in really low def. Hey if I could I would put a fort in a breats plate.
Make shure all of your runeworded armors are in light armors. What ever armor you pick, it is your choise after all. As in I totaly respect what your choise it but your still here for addvice so listen well.
Now also know that hellslayer is well known as HELLSLOWER. Thats because its too slow to be used hellslower is a total peice of crap. Get a ik mual double shealed, bonehew double shealed, upped ribcracker shealed, or windhammer shealed. All of these weapons are ALOT better then hellslower, even in you sheal it the dumb thing.
I hope that helps.
That was a pain to read, space it up next time. :P
I also want to add that another reason why I wanted eni over coh(except for the 999999 reasons I said above), is that I have a really great 3 sox armor, and I was hoping I would get a jah soon, which is the only thing that I need to make this eni( have ber). Now when I look at Coh and Fortitude, I see that I can afford them now(Need to get an ist for coh but of course it's easier to get than a jah...)- But I will need a good 4 sox armor. Anyway, I can understand why forti would be a better choice for me than Eni, But Why CoH??????? Thank you.:thumbsup:
and-Not to mention the EXTREMELY high def of eni(Gonna do it in a 3 sox Great Hauberk woth 402 def. It will become almost 1200 def if I'm not mistaking).
I'd just like to point out that if you make enigma, get a better base armor for gods sake. Great Hauberks range from 395 to 501 defense, so yours is almost the worst. If you can afford two high runes, you should be able to afford a 3sock ~500 def Hauberk, or even a 15ed one making the base def over 560. The resale value would be a lot better.
As for Eni vs CoH, it's up to you and your build. If you need res, go with CoH, if you duel or whatever and need the frw go with eni...
One thing pumafang and you always say this:
Why in God's name would you waste jah and ber in a breast plate?
It's not like you're lacking the str considering to use stormshield you gotta pump your strength anyway, so you'll have either a wirefleece, dusk shroud or archon plate enigma covered easily and they'll give better defense than breast plate enigma anyday even with the lowest of the low.
Well, your suggestions are indeed helpful, guys.
But they are also confusing. I want to make a request-
In order to make it easier for me, would every1 please state the best armor for me, in what armor whould I make it(The runeword), and a short explanation of why? If it's not hard I mean...
State that armor considering this-
I am lvl 87
life 5.4 k or so
dmg 21 k or so
over 230 str
current def(using corpsemourn) is 2177
Fury AR is 7k(Yeah Yeah it's low....)
and I guess I would like this char to defeat the ubers sometime...
Also I would like to mention that PvP purposes are definetely NOT important for me, for I am playing PvM. So consider it regarding to PvM stats.
please? ^ ^ Your final conclusion?
Thank you!!
And While your'e at it, please tell me another thing-
I have never been to Uber trist, but I plan on going there someday. With the current stats I gave you in the post above- Do I have any chance at all to beat those guys?? It's Important for me to know, because this is my best char.
And please every1 state the best armor in their opinion( As requested in the post above). Sorry if being a pest! Thank you! ^ ^
With those stats I would say use CoH in an elite nice light armor. I don't know what your resists look like, but you can also consider duress, mighty fine armor.
Yeah, if you're pvm, go with CoH or if you don't have the funds, go with Fortitude. Mega resists and life leech or resists and life and damage.
Make the fortitude in a archon plate, one with over 500 base def.
Then get your life leech in order. I went into uber trists with some resists in the negative but with draculs grasp and life leech from botd and dracs, it was all good.
I suggest going in with a 1 hand weapon instead of a two hander since you're in the upper middle class when it comes to life.
This way you can block some of the hits from the mob, and you will get mobbed since that's what uber trist is about.
Run up to the uber you wanna kill and hold down the left click, until it's dead, you'll be leeching so much it won't even matter what else hits you.
BTW, what weapon are you using for pvm as that damage is kinda low.
In PVM, you can even use ik maul socketed with amn for some serious life leech, you can even use earthshifter. Don't bother relying on the sage as it's dead as soon as you walk into the portal.
Actually, I AM using IK Maul, just not with amn. I got it with 2 flawless gems in it(Have no IDEA who hould do such a thing... Hope I didn't do it by mistake or something:grin: ). As for dracul's- I won't wear it, because I'm wearing IK belt, boots and gloves alongside the hammer. HUGH bonuses. I don't think I'll go with your suggestion for a 1 handed weapon, becuase I have no 1 handed weapon which is good enough to wield(Though I have gr8 shields, such as a 2 perf diamond moser's, and 2 lidlesses, and tiamat's and such). And I still don't understand why Coh over Eni. Eni gives you an expadition of 5% in max life. Isn't it worth more than Coh's 7% leech, considering I already leech using feral rage, and probably some other items with leech ability? The fortitude I can understand and I will probably do it.... But really after all these explanations I still don't see an advantage of Coh over Eni, worth choosing it inspite of Eni's advantages over Coh. Even not the +65 res. But maybe I'm wrong. I need a good explanation...
Anyway I was thinking of getting another sox 2 EMPTY IK maul, and socket it with??? Probably 2 shael but u said amn.... And 21k is considered low? Didn't know that.... my switch is a shaeled hellslayer-30k dmg, and of course more life, for the +43 vit bonus. And if the sage dies at the very first second, how could I have a chance of beating uber trist anyway? I mean, without the 2k or 3k life addition or so....
"And if the sage dies at the very first second, how could I have a chance of beating uber trist anyway?"
You can't kill the ubers with your current setup unless you get a lifetap wand on switch. The 40% crushing blow from IK maul should do the trick if you can stay alive.
xpumafangx
20-03-2006, 19:34
One thing pumafang and you always say this:
Why in God's name would you waste jah and ber in a breast plate?
It's not like you're lacking the str considering to use stormshield you gotta pump your strength anyway, so you'll have either a wirefleece, dusk shroud or archon plate enigma covered easily and they'll give better defense than breast plate enigma anyday even with the lowest of the low.
Breat plate enigma is great for one thing. Using a base str druid. That way you can easyly get well above 10k life. Also look at Galinho's def its 2177. My wirlwind barb has a def well over 30k. Same thing with my zealot. So if you look at that and don't see why I say don't care if my armor has 1 def on it or 3,000 def on it. I would rather have the armor with 1 def on it with alot of great mods then have a armor with 3,000 def on it where thats all that is on it. I do own a armor with 2,500 def and the only mods on it are plus to def by a %, and 8 to dex. It has 2 socts, pul and zod.
Hey Galinho,
Your str is way too high. I am glad your getting a good amount of damage and life as well tho. Get the double shealed ik mual you wont be sad you did. Ubers are really hard if your not prepared. And you do want life tap, crushing blow, alot of resists alot more then maxed, and a alot of life. Your 5k life is good enuff tho.
Item set up for player vs monster. I am thinking.
GODLY
ebotd greater poleaxe, ebotd archon staff.
Anglics rings and amulet.
coh in a dusk shroud, or archon plate.
dracs, or bloodfists
aulders boots
trang-ouls belt, verd belt, blood belt, or a godly rare plus to str, hit recovery, and life.
Helm jalals, 4 to skills curbues bite.
Here are somethings you might want to know if you didn't all ready know. Ias on the weapon its self, wias. Is what effects your attack speed the most anything else hardly effects at all or not at all. Werewolfs are glasscannons as in they do alot of damage but easyly break. Just like a cannon made of glass. Life from items that give a straight amount called pure life. Give you alot more life then items that give you life per level, and plus to vit in any form. It is because of oak sages, changing forms, and battle orders. They only effect the amount of life you have added when leveling and from plus pure life. Werewolfs when recovering from a attack do it alot faster then any other class. But they do use the same break points, 48% second, 86% 3rd. I don't know the other ones but those are the ones that most people keep in mind.
Well thank you. I don't understand what do you mean by a "life-tap wand".
please explain what do you mean by that, and in what way will it do any good for me.
and pumafang- Well I can't reverse my stat points to have less str ^ ^.
I think I will try to get another IK maul and double shael it.
I need to know more about the life tap thing. I only know it's a necro curse I don't even really know what it does, where to get it from, and how will it do any good to me. So please clarify that to me.
As for crushing blow- I have at least 40%(IK maul), and I probably have more from other items. just can't remember. My resistances SUCKS and I mean it. they are all negative in hell. It just seems that I manage to survive well even without raising them-But i don't know yet how things are going in uber trist, so I guess I will be needing the those resistances if I wanna survive there? And that's why I need Coh over Eni, for example??
Another thing- I REALLLLY and I mean REALLLLLY can't afford a botd, and to be honest-I'm not sure if i can afford a zod. but maybe.
Also- I didn't understand why using an eni on a base str dru can get u up to 10k life?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
And I didn't understand another thing- Why get more than maxed res??? What good will it do?? If it's maxed-than it's maxed. Than u can't get more res.
And why Coh only in a dusk shroud or archon plate? Why not in any other 4 sox elite armor?
Valvolux
22-03-2006, 23:24
21k damage with IK's Maul? Woah!
My resistances SUCKS and I mean it. they are all negative in hell.
You've answered your own question as to why you should use CoH over Enigma.
Well thank you. I don't understand what do you mean by a "life-tap wand".
please explain what do you mean by that, and in what way will it do any good for me.
You shop for a wand with charges of Life tap. LT allows for some pretty sweet life leech. Dracul's Grasp gloves have % to cast LT- something to consider.
And I didn't understand another thing- Why get more than maxed res??? What good will it do?? If it's maxed-than it's maxed. Than u can't get more res.
And why Coh only in a dusk shroud or archon plate? Why not in any other 4 sox elite armor?
Maxed resists are really important, especially if you want to uber. Meph has conviction in Uber Trist. If your resists are already negative, you'll drop fast. Stacking resists can be useful when you encounter a convicted monster or for PVP - this allows you to remain with postive resistances.
Dusk/Archon are standard armors people use. Why? They come out decent defence, low stat requirements, and don't drain stamina/speed. Any other 4os Light Armors and some medium are acceptable. It's about the stat requirement, defence, and dare I say *look* of your character in it. Of course for melee you don't see :wink3:
Got that.
Yeah sure looks is important^^ even for a ww dru ^^
and might I say I would hate to exchange my super-dark black corpsemourn look for a regular armor look.... But-what the heck... If it's needed... than it's needed....
And Valvolux-
R u sure it would be best for me to waste my ber(which is probably the only ber i am going to have in my entire lifetime, or at least for more time to come) on Coh and not eni, for the only reason that I will be needing the resistances when going to uber trist???
Because going there isn't the most important thing for me.... Sure it's important but I can manage without it... I think ^^
So if the reason why I should pick Coh over Eni is the resistances that I'm going to need in uber trist(In your opinion) than maybe I'm gonna make Eni after all.... But I still need a good 4 sox armor! If i want coh, and if I want fortitude!
Valvolux
25-03-2006, 00:07
Sounds like you want to choose Enigma over Coh no matter what, even tho Coh has great pvm mods. Most ppl choose Enigma for one reason, teleport. Werewolves can't teleport so one of its main advantages is out the window, sure enigma has other useful mods that benefit any melee char, str, life, speed etc...but IMO your char needs resists, badly.
End of the day its your char tho, so choose whatever suits your playing style more.
Best of luck.
Hey all,
For pvp would you guys say that FRW is a necessary attribute to have higher then others?
My hybrid is still young and I havn't dueled much but so far.. I can't catch ****.. well, can't kill either but that's due to bad weap.
However, Enigma seems like a viable and suitable choice.. although I'd be loosing the 28 rez from my Fort.. the dmg doesn't seem to be a big deal, especially since NIG gives +2 skills.
It's a bit tricky keeping your rage pumped since it only lasts 20 seconds.
Thanks for your time.
oh, and even with enigma my rez will be in the positives, just not maxed.
Well, Vlavolux-
I don't want Eni and no matter what. I just thought that the 5% max life on Eni is better than the leech on Coh(Especially because I'm already using Feral Rage), and that all the other mods of Eni overcome the need of res, which I can get on Coh...
Well, guess not ^^
So now let's guess that I put Eni in the side, and decide not to choose it.
Last question is what will be better for me, according to all the things I told you guys about my char- Forti, or Coh??? (Or maybe even IK armor, because I'm using IK belt, hammer, gloves and boots? though I guess one of the above runewords will be better but just guessing.... u guys will tell me)
Thanks for your patience.
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