Skill suggestions for a phoenix striker/dtalon hybrid

[LtDrebin]

I'm interested in building a phoenix striker that uses dragon talon and blade fury as alternates. For skills, I'm looking at 20 phoenix, 20 dragon talon, 1 blade fury, 1 death sentry, and all of the necessary 1 pointers. From here, I'm not sure what to go for. Venom? Max shadow master? Claws of Thunder, Blades of Ice, or Fists of Fury? Max Death Sentry?

Maxing phoenix strike and another elemental charge up (or two) is a definite. I'm not sure which to max. Claws of Thunder is very damaging, but next delay hurts it. Also, the second charge of phoenix (the only really damaging one) can't be used in conjunction w/ CoT as nextdelay completely destroys the damage potential. Blades of Ice is weak, but it freezes! Fists of Fire looks to be a good one to max after Cot/BoI as it makes the meteor good against bosses.

20 dragon talon will take out bosses quickly as I have a ribcracker on switch for crushing blow, so maxing fists of fire for boss disposal isn't really necessary...

Or is venom or shadow master a good way to go? I don't have a lot of experience with MA assassins.

[ilkori]

It sounds like you've reasoned it out on your own pretty well already. Generally a build goes focusing on Phoenix or on Talon, but a hybrid is possible. I prefer damage, so I'd go lightning. The cold does freeze, but if you really want that, then get a weapon that procs Frozen Orb. That can be a lot of fun. Also, Phoenix3 gives you some decent freezing but with no damage.

The NextDelay interference is a pain, but either one works on its own. For this hybrid, I'd stick to Phoenix2 with a quick finisher (normal attack or a 3-kick Talon). Usually I use CoT/FoF for single non-boss monsters with my Phoenix Striker, but you have Talon for that.

Venom is a "free damage if you have nowhere else to put points" kind of skill. It can be useful if you go all-out (Trangs gloves, etc.), but most monsters have rather high poison resists, and many of those are undead with high physical/lightning resists also. It's an unfortunate combination.

Shadow Master is best cast at level 17+. I would aim for an absolute minimum of level 11, with an optimum of slvl 18. She finishes her own equipment with level 17, and gets an extra +1 to all her skills at multiples of 3, which is why I add one more level to get 18.

[phool]

Don't dismiss the 1st charge on PS, it's damage per second is awesome, especially once you've got a couple of meteors blazing away. In addition it's easier to not accidentally get an extra charge or 1 too little, and only takes 1 attack to charge so your're unleashing them 50% faster. I used to go for CoT but more recently FoF has become more attractive.
Still, going for CoT probably does suit the build better as you're maxing dtalon.

[LtDrebin]

Hmm. Been thinking and maybe it would be better if I just did pure phoenix strike, but then I don't know what sort of finisher to use :grin: I would use normal attack for it's speed, but my AR will suck too much I think. Dtalon doesn't do much without tweaking your gear a bit (CTC, crushing blow, the works) IMO. Dragon claw is slower than a normal attack, but faster than two normal attacks and has better AR and dmg (like my physical damage is going to be high lol).

Makes me think of getting tiger strike/dragon tail, but skill points will be too tight for that.

I would like to make a hybrid, but I don't have the gear needed to make dtalon really hurt.

Thanks for the replies.

[LtDrebin]

EDIT: Sorry, I guess I'm having problems with the site now as well.

[LtDrebin]

Hmm, I clicked on submit once and the site problem posted THREE times, not just two :rolleyes:

[FrostBurn]

I have just Matriarched my Phoenix Striker, and she is now clvl 88. I cannot comment on a hybrid as I have never built one, but I now know a little about PStrikers. My PStriker is loosely based on skygoneblue's guide: http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=599

If you use the complete Nat's set, then all the finishing kicks will not be very damaging, on account of the low kick damage on Nat's boots. Since my PStriker does use Nat's full set, her finishing move is always DClaw. My AR is ~4500 with slvl 11 CM (1pt and +10 from items). Maxing CM will give me ~2000 more AR. At ~4500, the LCS shows a chance to hit of about 72-80% on various WSK monsters. The cool thing about Nat's claw is the ITD, so you really don't have to worry too much about AR unless you plan to kill superuniques a lot. At the moment, I'm hoping to level to clvl 90, add some steel charms and skillers to increase my AR, and if I get it high enough, I won't have to max CM. I intend to keep Demonlimb on switch for the enchant charges, for when I fancy killing Baal. As you deducted, physical damage is not the theme with PStrikers, and you will be relying on elemental damage. Therefore, maxing FoF, CoT and PS is a given. You will still have enough points left over to put 1pt in every shadow discipline skill (except SM, which you will want to bring to slvl 17+), and like me, even go for 1 pt in Blade Fury, or if you like, 1pt in Death Sentry. A few meteors from PS1 will destroy anything very quickly, as the burning pyres do incredible damage per second. PS2 is the massive lightning damager, and PS3 will freeze for about 3-4 seconds. CoT is a fast and rapid charger for repeated lightning damage. What I find annoying is when my PStriker gets cursed with Amp Damage or Iron Maiden. That's when Blade Fury comes in handy while my shadow and merc keep the hordes away from my PStriker.

Of course, you don't have to use Nat's set. In that instance, you can go for upg'ed Gore Riders, and that will definitely help DTalon do massive kick damage. You can throw together a bunch of uniques like Gore Riders, Highlord's Wrath or Mara's, Guillaume's Face, Dracul's Grasp or Laying of Hands, Duress armour or CoH or Enigma and still have two claws (like Bartuc's and Jade Talon). I would imagine that would help immensely with your kicking, but you will lose a lot of PDR. My PStriker has 50% PDR, and it makes melee combat much easier. If you play a pure claw/claw PStriker to clvl 90 wearing unique gear, you should have enough skill points left to get DTalon to the 6 kicks per attack frame. But I doubt you'll reach the 50% PDR cap, and you may have trouble maxing your resists, depending on what gear you have/use.

Venom looks good on paper, but a lot of monsters have good poison resists. And if you do go hybrid, you cannot afford to max it. I placed in 1pt myself, and it is a nice adjunct to my attacks, but nothing more.

Maxing Blades of Ice is no good, as the damage is just way too low and the increase in freeze length is no better than an unsynergised PS3.

Death Sentry is worth 1 pt if you intend to solo play, otherwise the CE becomes less effective, similar to the necro's CE as player settings increase.

Shadow Master should be at slvl 18, and as Ilkori stated, increased by increments of 3. For my PStriker, if I manage to get her AR high enough to my satisfaction, I would then max my SM. I find that my slvl 18 SM still dies not too infrequently, and more so when facing Lister and Co. A maxed SM has substantially more life and resists, better +skills, and lives longer, giving you more time to melee, or stand back and Blade Fury or cast traps when it is too risky to melee e.g. Oblivion Knights and IM.

On CM, if you do claw/claw and hybrid, unless you have some sort of ITD on your primary claw, you will probably want to max CM too, unless if you do not mind missing 1/3 to 1/4 of the time. And if you do max CM, then it will be even harder to go hybrid. Unless if you don't plan to use skillers and load up with resist and AR charms...

Anyway, hope this helps.

[FrostBurn]

Squid Attack!

Edit 1: And again.
Edit 2: And again.
Edit 3: And again.
Edit 4: And again.
Edit 5: And again.

[FrostBurn]

I give up. Squid wins.

[LtDrebin]

Congrats on matriarching FB :thumbsup: I've been looking a Nat's set and it really doesn't seem all that good, at least compared to tal's and IK (which are amazing). The PDR on the set is very nice though.

So why is DClaw your finisher? To me it would seem better to use a normal attack since you have ITD so you can quickly release charges, especially when you want to drop meteors fast on nasty bosses.

Blade Fury is of course a must. I think every assassin should have 1 pt in that skill.

You made repeated reference to PS3 for freezing. 3-4 seconds seems kinda long, as I don't want to have to renew that every 4 seconds as that could reduce my damage over time. What sort of merc are you using? Defiance or HF? Maybe a friendly barb :)

I would like to put a point in DS but there are so many prereqs... I wish the SM was smart enough to ONLY cast those instead of her weak LS.

[FrostBurn]

Hi LtDrebin,

I know what you mean about Nat's set compared to Tal's or IK's at first glance. I was not very impressed at Nat's either at first. But with only four items in the set for +3 skills, +2 shadow disciplines, 50 resists all and 30% PDR, you still have enough free slots for other good gear. My setup is as follows:
Complete Nat's set
Bartuc's
Rare amulet +2 assa skills, 6% mana leech, 19 resist all
Dracul's Grasp
RavenFrost
BK ring
Verdungo's belt
The cool thing about this setup is that, if you keep Nat's as primary claw, your BoS will be at slvl 11 (with only 1pt invested), and at BoS slvl 11, you reach the fastest attack speeds for both elemental and strike charge-ups.

DClaw is a two attack finished at 5 fpa per claw. The first attack is with Nat's claw, and it still uses its ITD, which will almost always hit regular monsters. If that misses, the second attack comes from your off-hand claw, which for me, has a 70-80% chance to hit regular monsters. And Dclaw has +to damage and AR each slvl increase. That's why you want to use it over a normal attack.

PS3 3-4 secs freeze seems kind of long? Do you mean too short? It would be nice if it was longer, but at least it is not too short. At 3-4 secs, and at such a fast attack speed, you can build up 3 full elemental charge-ups and discharge them on frozen monsters before they 'thaw out'. Same applies for dropping 3 meteors or 3 chain lightnings from PStrike. After the 3 discharges, you can freeze them again for another round.

The key with PStrikers is their speed. At slvl 11 BoS, my PStriker moves at 94% faster run/walk. She could almost be teleporting when running, and with the fastest attack speed, she is able to build up that many charges and discharges when monsters are frozen after PS3.

I use a Holy Freeze merc, for the obvious slow effect. I believe a lvl 80+ HF merc would slow monsters by about 50%. Might is good as well, but the HF lives longer, and since your physical damage is not your main damager, the might aura will not make your physical damage massive, although it will still have a significant effect. Alternatively, if you can burn the runes, you can get a Might merc using a Doom polearm, and have the best of both worlds.

The SM does use DS, but seldomly. If you go with Blade Fury, then you need 3 pre-req points, not 4, before you can get DS. So if you really like DS, then 3 pre-req points is still manageable. I find playing in a 1 player game too easy for my PStriker as her elemental damage fries monsters too fast, so I prefer more of a challenge. At higher player settings, DS becomes less effective, which is why I went with Blade Fury rather than DS.

[FrostBurn]

Hi LtDrebin,

I know what you mean about Nat's set compared to Tal's or IK's at first glance. I was not very impressed at Nat's either at first. But with only four items in the set for +3 skills, +2 shadow disciplines, 50 resists all and 30% PDR, you still have enough free slots for other good gear. My setup is as follows:
Complete Nat's set
Bartuc's
Rare amulet +2 assa skills, 6% mana leech, 19 resist all
Dracul's Grasp
RavenFrost
BK ring
Verdungo's belt
The cool thing about this setup is that, if you keep Nat's as primary claw, your BoS will be at slvl 11 (with only 1pt invested), and at BoS slvl 11, you reach the fastest attack speeds for both elemental and strike charge-ups.

DClaw is a two attack finished at 5 fpa per claw. The first attack is with Nat's claw, and it still uses its ITD, which will almost always hit regular monsters. If that misses, the second attack comes from your off-hand claw, which for me, has a 70-80% chance to hit regular monsters. And Dclaw has +to damage and AR each slvl increase. That's why you want to use it over a normal attack.

PS3 3-4 secs freeze seems kind of long? Do you mean too short? It would be nice if it was longer, but at least it is not too short. At 3-4 secs, and at such a fast attack speed, you can build up 3 full elemental charge-ups and discharge them on frozen monsters before they 'thaw out'. Same applies for dropping 3 meteors or 3 chain lightnings from PStrike. After the 3 discharges, you can freeze them again for another round.

The key with PStrikers is their speed. At slvl 11 BoS, my PStriker moves at 94% faster run/walk. She could almost be teleporting when running, and with the fastest attack speed, she is able to build up that many charges and discharges when monsters are frozen after PS3.

I use a Holy Freeze merc, for the obvious slow effect. I believe a lvl 80+ HF merc would slow monsters by about 50%. Might is good as well, but the HF lives longer, and since your physical damage is not your main damager, the might aura will not make your physical damage massive, although it will still have a significant effect. Alternatively, if you can burn the runes, you can get a Might merc using a Doom polearm, and have the best of both worlds.

The SM does use DS, but seldomly. If you go with Blade Fury, then you need 3 pre-req points, not 4, before you can get DS. So if you really like DS, then 3 pre-req points is still manageable. I find playing in a 1 player game too easy for my PStriker as her elemental damage fries monsters too fast, so I prefer more of a challenge. At higher player settings, DS becomes less effective, which is why I went with Blade Fury rather than DS.

[FrostBurn]

Hi LtDrebin,

I know what you mean about Nat's set compared to Tal's or IK's at first glance. I was not very impressed at Nat's either at first. But with only four items in the set for +3 skills, +2 shadow disciplines, 50 resists all and 30% PDR, you still have enough free slots for other good gear. My setup is as follows:
Complete Nat's set
Bartuc's
Rare amulet +2 assa skills, 6% mana leech, 19 resist all
Dracul's Grasp
RavenFrost
BK ring
Verdungo's belt
The cool thing about this setup is that, if you keep Nat's as primary claw, your BoS will be at slvl 11 (with only 1pt invested), and at BoS slvl 11, you reach the fastest attack speeds for both elemental and strike charge-ups.

DClaw is a two attack finished at 5 fpa per claw. The first attack is with Nat's claw, and it still uses its ITD, which will almost always hit regular monsters. If that misses, the second attack comes from your off-hand claw, which for me, has a 70-80% chance to hit regular monsters. And Dclaw has +to damage and AR each slvl increase. That's why you want to use it over a normal attack.

PS3 3-4 secs freeze seems kind of long? Do you mean too short? It would be nice if it was longer, but at least it is not too short. At 3-4 secs, and at such a fast attack speed, you can build up 3 full elemental charge-ups and discharge them on frozen monsters before they 'thaw out'. Same applies for dropping 3 meteors or 3 chain lightnings from PStrike. After the 3 discharges, you can freeze them again for another round.

The key with PStrikers is their speed. At slvl 11 BoS, my PStriker moves at 94% faster run/walk. She could almost be teleporting when running, and with the fastest attack speed, she is able to build up that many charges and discharges when monsters are frozen after PS3.

I use a Holy Freeze merc, for the obvious slow effect. I believe a lvl 80+ HF merc would slow monsters by about 50%. Might is good as well, but the HF lives longer, and since your physical damage is not your main damager, the might aura will not make your physical damage massive, although it will still have a significant effect. Alternatively, if you can burn the runes, you can get a Might merc using a Doom polearm, and have the best of both worlds.

The SM does use DS, but seldomly. If you go with Blade Fury, then you need 3 pre-req points, not 4, before you can get DS. So if you really like DS, then 3 pre-req points is still manageable. I find playing in a 1 player game too easy for my PStriker as her elemental damage fries monsters too fast, so I prefer more of a challenge. At higher player settings, DS becomes less effective, which is why I went with Blade Fury rather than DS.

[FrostBurn]

Squid Attack. I'll try again later.

[FrostBurn]

Updating... sorry for multiple posts.

[LtDrebin]

Good info. Nat's set is a decent deal because of the low number of items. From your item listing, I don't think I could do nearly as well. That rare amulet is pretty nice, I have a +2 assa ammy with +17 prismatic resists and some other crap mods, but ML is very handy. Beats having to charge up cobra strike.

Also, regarding finishers, why not go with a knockback weapon or even dtail? If you use claws of thunder, then the knockback should negate the nextdelay for most monsters so the nova AND the charged bolts do damage. I haven't tried this out, but I read it somewhere in these forums.

[FrostBurn]

You get 14% ML on the full set anyway. All you need to do is just touch a monster and your mana bulb will start filling up, almost scarily fast. I wish that assa amulet was 6% LL instead, which would have been much nicer.

I can't stand knockback. I want a monster to stay put so I can kill it. I'm not too fussed over the next delay. I find that, with ITD on Nat's claw, I can discharge so many CoTs that I don't really care if the bolts don't hit. Besides, it would be a random thing when it comes to knocking back a monster to the right position for an erratic bolt to follow up with a hit.

As for Dtail, it is the slowest of all kicks. You are also wearing Nat's boots, with its lousy damage. Dclaw does far more damage and is by far faster.

Remember that this is pure Phoenix Striker. It's a different story if you want a kicker/striker.

[LtDrebin]

So you mainly do PS2 and release w/ DC, not really using CoT except when you are using PS1? What other charge-ups do you regularly use? Combining PS2 and FoF might be good, although it could slow down your charge/release cycles.

[FrostBurn]

For me it's all about getting as many charge/release cycles as fast as possible.

PS2 for lots of lightning damage when there is enough space for the chain lightning to wrap around (e.g. no walls or tunnels).

PS1 for melee monsters that love to swarm as the burning pyres stack and do incredible damage.

PS3 to freeze dangerous packs e.g. Lister and Co. I am able to release two PS2 after a PS3, before repeating the cycle i.e. PS3-PS2-PS2-PS3-PS2-PS2-PS3-PS2-PS2, this keeps them almost perpetually frozen.

CoT for close quarters area of effect or when in a cramped area.

FoF for single monsters (like Gloams) when I want immediate fire damage and can't wait for a meteor to impact.

I don't really build up charges across the skill range as I find this slows down the discharge cycle and most monsters will be vulnerable to either lightning or fire, but usually will only be immune to one and not both.

[LtDrebin]

Yes, I did mean it was too short, not too long :)

I also completely forgot that PS3 actually freezes instead of chilling, which makes it ridiculously good. Too bad the ice bolts don't pierce, because if I'm surrounded I find PS3 only freezes the few monsters that are immediately next to me.