View Full Version : Kickers in Pvp
My kicker is awesome.
In fact, when I need to rush someone, with the exception of the Sanctuary, I use her over my summoner necro.
She has:
8 Gcs, most are MA skillers, some with life, a shadow gc with life, a life and mana gc and some lifer, fhr and r/w scs.
Highlords
Andies
Dracs
Dual Ravens
CoH
Upped Gores
Dungos or Tgods(to get to the trapper to deliver the kick:thumbsup: )
my trusty stormshield
and a fleshripper.
It's socketed.
The socket is empty because I don't know what to socket it with.
IAS? Max Damage? Who knows? Maybe I'll find a damn good jewel to use.
Help would be appreciated on that point.
But on to the main question.
Hammerdins and smiters...
How do I kill good smiters? Is it simply impossible?
And with hammerdins, what the hell? Phoenix light keeps teleporting you right into a hammer. I mean without fail, straight into a hammer.:largeannoyed:
Any strategies for these 2? MB isn't enough. It would be if the shadow could be relied on to keep using it while I attack but the chick isn't that smart...
Forget smiters, you cant beat them with kick at all.
Vs hammers, use traps and MB to lock them up. Few traps, MB, and when you se them locked in recovery animatin, fly and kick, some kicks, retreat, rinse and repeat.
Tried that one and the guy was experienced. He simply charged away instead of teleporting.
CupOfTea
22-02-2006, 12:13
Kickers in Pvp.. I will continue sentence - sucks.
I see you're trying to start a flamewar.
What character do you play?
Are you USEast?
Aslong as you're not a hammerdin or smiter, which I really have no chance against with my current life, step up and let's put your theory to the test =D
EDIT: Ladder btw. You'll either win or lose right?
Barbs an smiters are the only chars you wont defeat with kicker. Any other char is defeatable. When a char needs a bit more than namelock and hold mouse to kill something, for the most people with low skill & knowledgement of the game making comments like the above is the only thing they can do.
Speederländer
22-02-2006, 20:47
I will continue sentence -
.
.
.
You summed up your knowledge of PvP with that comment too. :thumbsup:
Phyrexial
22-02-2006, 20:48
Against hammerdins you simply will not beat a decent one without your sin having claw block and enigma. With claw block (dual claws needed) you can actually block spells like hammers giving you considerably more survivability. Enigma is a necessity as DF always teleports you directly north of the target which incidentally is exactly where hammers hit best. Whenever possible make sure that you have your shadow out as well as the shadow can sometimes take a hit for you due to summon stacking if you are teleporting.
Smiters I don't think you have a chance against. If you were a WW/Kick hybrid perhaps, but pure kicking I don't think so.
WhiteAlien
23-02-2006, 07:39
Little more to add. All palies have 75% chance to block all melee attacks + add their uber high defense and your chances to kill = 0
Sorry to say this but I have beaten alot of level 90 pallies.
I beat a level 86 smiter with the exile and dracs. His life wasn't where it should have been at but that really isn't an excuse for a smiter against someone who has 1.7k life.
And I've had no problems with barbs.
Obviously these guys were pubby barbs but they're still barbs in the 80s.
I tell them I'm melee and they start out with concentration.
I knock their lives down very, very quickly by combo of DT and MB. They then try and take me with a ww and cheat =(.
And here's the important part. I never run. Since I'm claw shield, I stand there and hold down shift, kick into the ww and MB it and poison them.
Since I usually have the upperhand in life, I then wait ti' they're out of the ww and MB them to death at that point.
Smiters, mid-fury wolves, zealers, sorcs, trappers, all but the godly bowazons whose guided arrows take me out in one hit (grrrrr), trappers, necros(65-35 in their favor) are all fun duels.
But the good smiters and hammerdins...No hope.
@phrex. If I go dual claw, I won't be beating any melee duelers at all. 55% block just isn't good enough and you know it.
Plus I'd need to invest in a fury claw and a chaos claw and I don't have those funds =(
WhiteAlien
23-02-2006, 07:59
I would be glad to duel you
Sweet, what character?
I won't waste our time.
If it's a forum built hammerdin or smiter then no need, you win, otherwise let's go...
Dammit, you're Europe!!
the boss
23-02-2006, 11:04
kickers are not great for pvp....they are okay for casters vs casters (there's a guide on this)...
Speederländer
23-02-2006, 11:48
Sorry to say this but I have beaten alot of level 90 pallies.
I beat a level 86 smiter with the exile and dracs. His life wasn't where it should have been at but that really isn't an excuse for a smiter against someone who has 1.7k life.
And I've had no problems with barbs.
Obviously these guys were pubby barbs but they're still barbs in the 80s.
I tell them I'm melee and they start out with concentration.
I knock their lives down very, very quickly by combo of DT and MB. They then try and take me with a ww and cheat =(.
And here's the important part. I never run. Since I'm claw shield, I stand there and hold down shift, kick into the ww and MB it and poison them.
Since I usually have the upperhand in life, I then wait ti' they're out of the ww and MB them to death at that point.
Smiters, mid-fury wolves, zealers, sorcs, trappers, all but the godly bowazons whose guided arrows take me out in one hit (grrrrr), trappers, necros(65-35 in their favor) are all fun duels.
But the good smiters and hammerdins...No hope.
@phrex. If I go dual claw, I won't be beating any melee duelers at all. 55% block just isn't good enough and you know it.
Plus I'd need to invest in a fury claw and a chaos claw and I don't have those funds =(
You say you have no problems with barbs? Who the hell are you dueling? If you're beating ww barbs with a kicker, then you are dueling the poorest execuse for barbs on the whole realm.
Further, why are you only going to get 55% block on a dual claw set-up? I have 59% block with only 1 pt invested. Add one more point and I'm at my standard 60% block.
If you're owning as a kicker with only 1700 life I seriously have to wonder who it is you are dueling.
Speederländer
23-02-2006, 11:55
Little more to add. All palies have 75% chance to block all melee attacks + add their uber high defense and your chances to kill = 0
No, that's not true. Pure kickers have AR on par with ww barbs, better actually in many cases. I ran a pure kicker for a while last season that had almost 30K AR. I never had trouble hitting anything, even defense oriented pallies. And I didn't need to use AR small charms. So the 75% pally block becomes no more challenging than any other character's max block.
Speedlander, why do you always pick any opportunity to be negative?
I acknowledged in my post that these were pubby barbs yet you still felt the need to try and get the last irrelevant word in.
You have problems.
And considering most of my gcs are MA and not shadow, why would my weapon block get that high?
55 is where it's at.
Use shield vs melee chars, dual claw vs casters. You dont need goodly claws as fury or chaos, u can use strengh, malice, or even bartucs and jade. Just check for the speed breaks and the like. 55% block with duel claws vs casters is FAR better than 0% block with a shield.
Phyrexial
23-02-2006, 17:51
A few things to take into account:
1) I would never recommend to you using weapon block against melee, that's obvious. My lvl 35 LLD kicker uses weapon/shield with dual claws on switch. One for melee one for casters. Also remember that you can't block smite with a shield but you CAN block smite with claw block.
2) It is entirely possible to beat bad WW barbs with a kicker, I've killed lvl 85+ IK barbs with my lvl 35. This means they were crappy. If they have no block then they might (maybe, BvC's will probably still kill you for example) be possible for a kicker, but any competent max block WW barb will not lose to you.
3) Listen to Speeder, he knows what he's talking about. He is our resident kicksin god on the forums.
Speederländer
23-02-2006, 22:21
Speedlander, why do you always pick any opportunity to be negative?
I acknowledged in my post that these were pubby barbs yet you still felt the need to try and get the last irrelevant word in.
You have problems.
And considering most of my gcs are MA and not shadow, why would my weapon block get that high?
55 is where it's at.
You are offering advice and opinion that goes counter to the experience of just about everyone else who duels on a regular basis. Disagreeing with your points hardly constitutes "being negative". Methinks you need to get a thicker skin. :thumbsup:
You said:
If I go dual claw, I won't be beating any melee duelers at all. 55% block just isn't good enough and you know it.
And when I responded about 55% not being a standard kicker dual claw block rate you get annoyed, tell me I have "problems", and talk about your charms being MA or whatever. ummmm....ok? My point was 55% block from claw block in uncommonly low and is not a good number to judge things by. If you are choosing a build that unnecessarily limits you, then that's your business. But if you offer opinion based on that lower number without putting it in context, then your information becomes questionable and even misleading to people who otherwise aren't familiar with the build in question. Also, you do know that claw block blocks smite and shield block does not, right?
I duel public games for the most part ever since Clan Honor folded and I'll tell you right now that there are plenty of barbs in public games completely unbeatable by kickers. As in LOTS of them. And this is vs. a decked out kicker (using all manner of set-ups, including max block shield builds with lacerator amp and an inventory of 40+ life skill charms). And yet, you maintain...And I've had no problems with barbs.And you only have 1700 life to boot? Sorry, that just doesn't compute. Unless the barb is in good humor and agrees not to ww you to death, which few ever will, you're dead.
Now, you can take my disagreeing with you as a "personal attack" or whatever you want, but that presupposes I care about attacking you at all. Which I don't. Your comments run counter to experience and have problems on several levels. Don't post advice unless you are prepared to carry on debate with people who may disagree with you. I disagree with your comments/conclusions and this is the forum for discussing such things.
Speederländer
23-02-2006, 22:22
1) I would never recommend to you using weapon block against melee, that's obvious. My lvl 35 LLD kicker uses weapon/shield with dual claws on switch. One for melee one for casters. Also remember that you can't block smite with a shield but you CAN block smite with claw block.
2) It is entirely possible to beat bad WW barbs with a kicker, I've killed lvl 85+ IK barbs with my lvl 35. This means they were crappy. If they have no block then they might (maybe, BvC's will probably still kill you for example) be possible for a kicker, but any competent max block WW barb will not lose to you.
Exactly. :thumbsup:
Speedlander, you conveniently chose to quote every other thing in the post and not quote what was actually relevant.
I said you didn't have to get snooty about the barb thing. I'd already acknowledged that these were pubby barbs.
Nothing to do with your advice. Except for the claw block where I know I was right considering it's my character so I know what my clawblock is at. Simple as that.
I don't have any claws right now, just an ummed fleshripper.
And how is asking for help advice?
I tell you my setup and that falls under advice now?
And to your last section. Yes, I've beaten full ww barbs. But like I said, they were idiots. They ww until they get you down to a sliver of life and then the idiots actually stop wwing and run up to you and try and conc you to death.
At this point MB and the fact that my attack speed is going on double theirs, my sliver of life is more than enough to atleast double k.o. or at most win.
That's where the dracs come in handy...
Hey all,
After all that heated crap at the end of that discussion I almost didn't care to join. However, I do need opinions of experience for pvp kicksin.
Why fleshripper?
I currently have a war spike beast and I'm wondering what you kids have to say.
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