Fendazon Dilemna

[Omikron8]

I did the crazy/suicidal thing and built myself a fendazon with one base D/A/E in order to use valk (peace sucks)

at level 77

197 str after bonuses
170 dex after bonuses
345 vit after bonuses

eth botd mat spear
highlords
dual raven
prudence eth hellforge plate
rockstopper
dracul's
tgods
aldur's boots
13/20 torch
multiple crappy life+res+AR charms
might merc with bonehew/shaft/guillaume's

After +skills:

max fend
11 crit
17 valk
max penetrate
1 in prereqs and pierce

1) It seems that my spear range doesn't mean a damn thing in melee combat, even if i approach behind or to the side of my tanking valk + merc many monsters still switch their targeting to me so i have to constantly reposition myself or hope that i can land my first fend hit before they can finish their attack animation

2) I was thinking of rebuilding with no D/A/E. This of course means no valk but it also means my only possibility of being interrupted if by hit recovery. Prudence + rockstopper gives me 55% FHR (lost link to fhr tables) which i assume hits some decent breakpoint. I could put on some small 5% sc's or some dual mod 12% gc's but i'm still wondering if i would be in hit recovery too much without D/A/E to be able to decently fend.

3) At level 85 i should have around 23 skill pts to use and i'm wondering how to deal with PI's. There are no good anti-PI spears (stoneraven is a joke) and i don't have enough pts to use elemental arrow skills. I could put reaper on merc but that would only break the default PI's like ghosts, not boss PI's (usually). Fury + titans on switch seems the obvious choice because i'm wearing tgods already but i was thinking about lightning strike. Unfortunately strike sucks hard even with multiple synergies due to the damn chain lightning bug (which also affects sorcs).

4) I think i'll switch to laying of hands instead of dracul's. With might aura i do around 4700-6200 fend and botd leech fills me up quickly. I could use the demon damage and fire res of LoH

5) What are the fend breakpoints? I remember Kirsty posted these a LONG time ago.

[YogiRat]

Zon hit recovery rates are here
http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551
3rd chart down. 55FHR will give you 6 frame recovery, pretty good since 5 frame is about all you can practicaly do with a zon(86FHR).

The Fend breaks will take some digging.
I got it.

normal/fend/IAS
[20] Spears (Pike, Lance, Ceremonial Pike, War Pike, Matriarchal Pike)
20/09 : 0
18/08 : 10
17/08 : 15
16/08 : 20
15/07 : 25-35
14/07 : 40-45
13/07 : 50
13/06 : 55-65
12/06 : 70-95
11/06 : 100-120
11/05 : 125-145
10/05 : 150-245
09/05 : 250+

[10] Spears (Maiden Pike)
17/08 : 0
16/08 : 10
15/07 : 15-25
14/07 : 30
13/06 : 35-45
12/06 : 50-65
11/06 : 70-85
11/05 : 90-100
10/05 : 105-170
09/05 : 175+

[0] Spears (Trident, Spetum, Maiden Spear, Fuscina, Yari, Ceremonial Spear, Stygian Pike, Ghost Spear, Matriarchal Spear)
15/07 : 0
14/07 : 10-15
13/06 : 20-25
12/06 : 30-45
11/06 : 50-60
11/05 : 65-70
10/05 : 75-120
09/05 : 125-195
09/04 : 200+

[-10] Spears (Spear, War Spear, Hyperion Spear)
14/07 : 0
13/06 : 10-15
12/06 : 20-25
11/06 : 30-40
11/05 : 45-50
10/05 : 55-85
09/05 : 90-140
09/04 : 145+

[-20] Spears (Brandistock, War Fork, Mancatcher)
13/06 : 0
12/06 : 10-15
11/06 : 20-25
11/05 : 30
10/05 : 35-60
09/05 : 65-100
09/04 : 105+

[harley98]

my fendzon looks like this

max fend
max decoy
max penetrate
max critical strike
rest in inner sight

str enough for equipment
dex 250
life rest
ene base

i dont use the dodge skills because i dont like going into the animation when i'm in a fight, it just works better without them. and because i dont use the dodge skills i dont have a valk, which i do miss. i use a demon's arch jav with a shield(forgot the name, its a unique shield with +dex/lvl, and some other nice mods on it.) works great for everthing including pi's. i use it all the time.

you might consider getting a holy freeze merc or putting a doom polearm on your merc to slow everthing down 50% or better which means that you will not go into the dodge animation so much.

[Omikron8]

Unfortunately a merc leeches little if he isn't of the might variety

I was braindead before and forgot about putting delirium on my merc

The confuse on struck should let my merc control the crowd after he is hit a few times

If the merc delirium works well i will probably rebuild without D/A/E and just spam decoy

[kingdryland]

Have you tried the fortitude/metalgrid combo? Works great for my ama,nice defense,damage,resists,ar... I actually have maxed jab for single targets. Against physical immunes I do an old zealot trick (as I am a pally person actually) and keep on switch elemental javelin and tiamat's rebuke.

[Omikron8]

my damage is high enough with prudence

fort gives no hit recovery

fort gives the same or less resistances

fort gives less defense

my AR is 8400 with highlords and dual ravens and a few charms, don't need more

seems i have 10/05 fend with 80% IAS, goddamn pathetic attack speed for such a godly weapon

[YogiRat]

10/5 isn't that bad. IIRC 9/5 was the break that most people shot for, because 9/4 just wasn't practical.

How about Stone? You will give up some res and DR for better D, FHR and stats.
Plus, you can have Gumby for your friend.:rolleyes:

Also, I thought that 15%-20% LL was the norm for fenders back before the curse.

[CoRRuPt-OnE]

Demon Arch and tiamat's rebuke should solve your problems with pi's. Or carry an atmas scarab.

[kingdryland]

my damage is high enough with prudence

fort gives no hit recovery

fort gives the same or less resistances

fort gives less defense

my AR is 8400 with highlords and dual ravens and a few charms, don't need more

seems i have 10/05 fend with 80% IAS, goddamn pathetic attack speed for such a godly weapon


Hit recovery can be attained by charms easily. Same goes with the resistances. Instead of keeping resist/ar charms in your inventory, you can use forti/metalgrid, and have more damage,more resists,more ar and your healing recovery. And the merc can be holy freeze for crowd control or defiance for the extra defense. Ed from forti beats ed from might aura.

Fort can actually give HIGHER defense when lvl 15 chilling armor kicks in,(not to mention that in my setup it will multiply the defense from metalgrid as well). That's a 115% defense bonus.

You have no crushing blow at all, although you are melee,use gore rider.

Rockstopper is nice,I used it to level. BUT, your strength is high enough to use CoA. With that you can have defense,fhr,resists,damage reduction, and ias if you need. Consider verdungo and nosferatu belts.

[Omikron8]

Fort does not give more res

prudence 25-35 res, mine is 29
fort 20-30 res, i doubt i'll roll a 30 and i don't want to waste a Lo

With ~1450 life i don't seem to need physical damage reduction at all, i have plenty of time to chug a purple in an emergency or a red in a slow fight

Yes i have gorerider but i'm a lazy bastard and need to swap dracul's for LoH before i take off my aldur boots

Most enemies die in a few seconds when i'm not in constant interruption so CB doesn't seem as important as for someone like a zealot who isn't walking around with an 800 damage weapon.

Yes i know crown of ages is ideal but (i'm ladder) the price is ridiculous for even a crappy version so i have not considered it.

I use tgods because

- 10 IAS won't help me now (i have 80 with botd + highlords)
- Tgods gives more strength
- Light absorb is helpful against LEBs
- I don't need more life leech, my bulb fills up in 2-3 hits even without lifetap triggered

I don't want to use stone because it has less defense than my eth glitched prudence (3180 def) and stone only gives 15 res, and even with a 20 res torch and near perf rockstopper i am still not at max hell res. I will put stone on my merc though as he dies left and right now with his crappy shaftstop

I made a delirium diadem last night and put it on my merc and the confuse on striking helps a low with crowd control. Unfortunately evasion lock still happens way too much if i get surrounded by confused monsters.

I think i'll rebuild her with 1-10 decoy and no D/A/E. Unless i am amped or hit by heavy damage fanat/might monsters i visually don't see myself going into hit recovery so if i'm taking multiple hits of low damage i should be better off using a no D/A/E build then this whiffing crap i have now.

Anyone know what the HP % is for a player to go into hit recovery? 1/12 (i think this is monster's hp% requirement)? 1/8? 1/4?

If it's some relatively large chunk then i will rebuild her with no D/A/E

I thought i would use dracul's but i see no point:

- Lifetap overrides confuse --> bad
- Don't need the +str
- Don't need the life leech
- Gores or duress can give me open wounds

[DudSpud]

Anyone know what the HP % is for a player to go into hit recovery? 1/12 (i think this is monster's hp% requirement)? 1/8? 1/4?
1/12. This is why I built my Fender with as many HP (1500+) as possible and no D/A/E. I didn't seem to whiff very often (I loved watching the cycle of elemental pops on the mosters surrounding me...), but I had a hard time cranking out the damage with the gear I had (SP). Switch was a passion stick for Beserk for PI/IM. Hey, it's all I had...

DudSpud

[Omikron8]

1/12 for player hit recovery?

hmm that seems low because i frequently get hit for 150-200 in the pits and i don't go into recovery unless i can't see the animation for some reason

D/A/E are at 8 frames at all levels i believe which is horrible for fending

i might remake her with decoy and rely on my merc's delirium

[PhatTrumpet]

1/12 is the number I'd always heard, but it doesn't seem quite right to me either.

Is CStrike out of the question for PI's (i.e. too much like a Javazon)?

[Omikron8]

I was wondering too about light strike + charged strike

Max fend
Max penetrate
7 crit
1 decoy
4 for prereqs

that requires 52 pts

level 85 = 84 skill pts, + 12 from quests = 96 skill pts available

that leaves me 44 skill pts if i leave decoy at 1 pt

that should be enough for level 20 light strike + level 20 charged strike

i don't want to do demon arch + shield on switch because of the possibility of block lock

or i could do the boring 20 fury on switch with titans but i am sick of using that backup and i want to try some melee PI backup

[TedDeeBoy]

dont use the dodge skills because i dont like going into the animation when i'm in a fight, it just works better without them. and because i dont use the dodge skills i dont have a valk, which i do miss.

I played Single Player DII for more than 2 years and just joined these forums. I occasionally browse the Zon forum as I really enjoy playing the Zon class.

Omikron8 and Harley98, looking at the issue of not getting a Valk without allocating skills points to D/A/E I have a theoretical solution that should allow all Zons on ladder (and Single Player in some circumstances) to use a valk in hell with no D/A/E and the Valk be of some use. Eg not die every minute. This setup is thinking of PvM only , I did not consider PVP at all although it maybe some use, I can not think of a PvP use at the moment.

This theory is based on the following assumption:-

1) When using an oskill which belongs to the owning character class, that skill is affected by + skills for that tree to that skill belongs to and + skills for that character class, as well as + all skills equipment. This theory is fundamental for this suggestion to function properly in practice. I am not sure of this true, someone else may know.

If you assemble the following equipment on the Spearazon

Harmony bow with at least +3 Valk oskill , the max a Zon will receive for using a oskill native to her class.
+3 P&M ammy, circlet and gloves.
Peace Armour in whatever armour type takes 3 os, I suggest breastplate for ease or Mage Plate for zon leveling.

plus the Torch and Anni which are std setup for a character on B-Net.

This setup should give you a pre-buff skill level 18 Valk with no D/A/E required, all for the price of 3 Magic Items, 1 very mediocre and 1 decent runeword , one Ko and no other runes higher than Shael. Most of this stuff all Zons already have. Add P&M skillers, BC, +1 Skills Rings and Arach’s Mesh for extra Valk buff

Also the best part of using this setup you can save skills points on the Valk which you can spend on the decoy. A lvl 20 decoy creates buff decoy at low mana cost and the synergies buff the valk up over 5K life and 70+% res all before her equipment generation.
FYI, stat sources on these taken from the Arreat Summit

The only problem with this setup is you cannot spam the valk at a location you like as you can't recast the valk without the pre-buff, but the valk should rarely die with 5K+ life.
Not a problem for the Spearazon as she never had access to a Valk anyway if going without D/A/E but a potential problem for other Zon builds. Usually I only spam the valk in boss or for particular difficult boss packs

I am not sure if Blizzard intended this when they designed Harmony R/W but I think this setup is the most useful on a Spearazon but should work for any Zon for that matter.

If this theory proves true, the bottom line is a Spearazon gets 2 tanks, the Merc and the Valk with a strong spammable Decoy, with a Fend without wiffing attacks because of D/A/E interfering. Using an A2 Merc, all tanks are strong hp wise and this helps to take some of the heat off your Spearazon in melee, so the Spearazon's Hell viability should increase.

I am going to give this setup a try myself when I assemble the gear required, minus the Torch and Anni, I'll go with P&M skillers instead to make the Valk Level 17. I would be interested in knowing for sure whether this works

Good luck with your spearies

[Omikron8]

Does the valk stay even when you take off harmony?

Even if it does i would have to put back on my prebuff gear to cast her again which is a pain, considering she wanders around like an idiot even if i place her right in front of a huge monster pack

I think i'll stick with delirium merc+ hit recovery + high vitality build, if that sucks i declare the fendazon officially dead

[kingdryland]

Well have it your way,my build with eth hone sundan,fortitude,dracs,metalgrid etc works fine and I solo the game like a walk in the park.

[fredsta54]

Does the valk stay even when you take off harmony?

Even if it does i would have to put back on my prebuff gear to cast her again which is a pain, considering she wanders around like an idiot even if i place her right in front of a huge monster pack

I think i'll stick with delirium merc+ hit recovery + high vitality build, if that sucks i declare the fendazon officially dead

Go no d/e/a, you can use decoy as a tank, you have your merc, and use a nice harmony on switch. If you have a few + skills your valk will be a decent tank, and with strafe you can kill PI with harmony (nb elemental dmg... if you can get an additional source)







Fred

[Wuben]

Valk will disappear if you haven't skilled it and you switch to BotD again.

[Omikron8]

alright decoy/hit recovery it is then

[Omikron8]

Holy Crap what a difference

my rebuilt no D/A/E zon is at level 70 now and i really notice a killing speed increase

unfortunately i'm fragile as a paper cup :

no block
no evasion
little or no defense

but that's what rejuv potions and leech are for and this is softcore --> killing speed is everything

with decoy, delirium and 86% fhr i should be fine in hell

just hold down the right fend button and plow through everything

[YogiRat]

Yeah, I guess it's kill or be killed with this build, that must be why the guides that I've read recomend high LL. But what about the PIs? I understand why you don't want to use javs or bows. How about Gimmershreds?

[Omikron8]

Well most of my leveling will be in the pits where there are no PI's ever

As for other places

1) Reaper's Toll overrides delirium confuse so i don't want it on merc
2) Light Fury on switch doesn't let me use armor due to insufficient strength
3) Charged Strike seems to do alright
4) Lightning Strike is OK for 1-3 player games

i think i'll stick with charged strike + cold damage (dual ravens) and some lightning charms

my biggest problem is actually mana burners because my chance to be hit is around 40-60% when standing/walking and all it takes is one hit to empty my bulb

oh well i like this kill or be killed build, more exciting than bowazons with evasion skills and valk

[psych]

Are you using LoH and gores this time around?

[Omikron8]

ya i put on loh and gores

i don't need the loh IAS but the demon damage helps and the fire res

gores are overkill, i could probably kill just as fast without them but i can't think of any better boots for myself

i might switch to res jewel guillaume's once i get my hell anya quest

i invested in light strike synergy instead of fury so now i'm screwed...again, i'll just stick with charged strike

[kingdryland]

What's your total defense now?