Collecting Leather Books [Archive] - Diablo: IncGamers Forums

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 06:38

For about 15 years, I've been collecting Easton Press leather-bound books (http://www.eastonpress.com/intro.asp). Their books are heirloom quality books bound in fine leather. And, to be honest, they are fairly reasonably priced. We're talking $50-$75 per book.

I have leather-bound, autographed copies of the memoirs of Ronald Reagan, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Margaret Thatcher, Henry Kissinger, and 2 complete, autographed sets of works by Richard Nixon.

I have The Easton Press' collection of the 100 Greatest Books Ever Written. I have most of their set of Classics of American Literature. I have a 6-volume set on WW2, a 6-volume set on WW1, and the 4-volume History of the English Speaking Peoples, all by Winston Churchill. I have a few of The Books That Changed the World. I have about a 3rd of their Library of the Presidents, and I'm hoping to soon get their complete Shakespeare and complete Hawthorne collections.

In total, I have approaching $10000 in books. I'm currently building a new home, and I can't wait to finally have nice, dark wood built-in bookshelves in my study, upon which to display my book treasures. The smell of the leather is yummy.

Anyone have any of their books?

/nerd

Sir EvilFreeSmeg

19-02-2006, 07:03

Nope. I'm too much of a geek. I want the entire Wheel of Time series (when that SOB Robert Jordan gets around to finishing it. Sniff.) bound into a single massive and leather bound volumn.

Beyond that, the only other book I want in leather is a Masonic Bible. I prefer my books to be readily transportable.

Sokar Rostau

19-02-2006, 07:06

First off it has to be asked whether you have actually read, or ever intend to read, these books or if they are just there to make you look intelligent.

I've never heard of Easton Press, but those signed editions sound nice.

I love books, especially antiques, and have some that are over 150 years old. And, yes, I have read almost all of them. It's a bit difficult to get through The Historians History of the World, though, because it's 98 years old and there is approximately 17000 pages of nineteenth century scholarship, spread over 25 hefty tomes, to wade through... I have mainly read the stuff I'm interested in.

There's a vellum bound copy of Ovid's Metamorphoses, at my local antiquarian book seller, from 1503 that I have my eye on at the moment, I just have to justify the $500 price tag and buying a book in Latin. It does have handwritten ink notes from at least three or four previous owners, including one lot that are certainly more than 250 years old judging by the spelling and style, which makes it interesting.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 07:07

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 07:08

Amra

19-02-2006, 07:09

Bortaz, I am jealous.

No, I don't have any of them.

You got some nice treasures there though.

But to be honest I have never seen the appeal in having something autographed.

Sir EvilFreeSmeg

19-02-2006, 07:09

Hey! I resemble that remark

EDIT:
Arma, I had Sean Hannity sign my hat as well as his latest book. It's the novelty more than anything. That hat now hangs on my wall until I can get Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck to sign it. Then I'm putting it in a shadow box:thumbsup:

AeroJonesy

19-02-2006, 07:10

I have books I spent lots of money on, but no books like that. And no books I bought for fun.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 07:13

I'd like to get this (http://www.eastonpress.com/ViewProduct.asp?Sku=0243) and this (http://www.eastonpress.com/ViewProduct.asp?Sku=0462) and this (http://www.eastonpress.com/ViewProduct.asp?Sku=0199) next.

EDIT: Oh, and this (http://www.eastonpress.com/ViewProduct.asp?Sku=0094).

Sokar Rostau

19-02-2006, 07:17

But to be honest I have never seen the appeal in having something autographed.

They're worth a fortune.

Only problem is they also fall into a kind of priceless category. What a lot of people don't understand about owning a piece of history like a signed book is that you are a link in a hopefully long chain. The signed autobiography of a dead US President is already valuable, in both the monetary and historical senses, but when it is passed down to your great-great grandchildren it will be worth an absolute kings ransom. These are the sort of items that end up in museums and are called 'treasures'. You don't buy things like this to sell in a few years, you buy them to sell in a few decades at the earliest and a few centuries at the best.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 07:21

The Reagan book I have was issued by his Presidential Library Commission, to raise money for the library. The Easton Press had like 12 of them, which weren't sold originally, out of a total of 1500.

The book came in an oak chest with woodburned designs, with 6 or 8 cassette tapes of Reagans most popular speechs.

Now that he's died, there's really no telling what the thing is worth. Same for the Nixon sets. Dead Presidents don't sign anymore autographs, and autographs have historical significance.

Amra

19-02-2006, 07:24

Arma, I had Sean Hannity sign my hat as well as his latest book. It's the novelty more than anything. That hat now hangs on my wall until I can get Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck to sign it. Then I'm putting it in a shadow box:thumbsup:
Why you would want Rush to sign something is lost on me. I am conservative and I cannot listen to him. He just likes to hear himself talk. He makes little sense.

I follow my own code. I don't rush home to see Hannity or anyone else for that matter.

I don't need someone to follow or tell me how things are.

plasmo

19-02-2006, 07:30

I used to buy books at the Barnes & Noble cheapo section (~$3-5 per book), but now I've decided that's way too expensive and stick to the Goodwill and Salvation Army (one near me has 6 paperbacks for $1). Rummage sales are cheap, but the selection is usually lacking.

Oh, and can't forget public libraries. Hard to beat free, except that I feel bad about breaking the spines and sometimes you have to wait if someone else has the book you want.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 07:32

Amra

19-02-2006, 07:33

They're worth a fortune.

So it's all just about money then?

Make no mistake, I like money as much as anyone.

But when someone signs 500 books a day how much is that worth? Maybe a lot to people who don't know better.

Look at NASCAR. It's a huge marketing business. They don't autograph something to someone. They just autograph. It's worthless in my book. Just because someone drives a race car makes them no more important than the people I work with or am in the fire department with.

If someone wants to autograph something to me, then I will value it.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 07:38

Well, the value of it is incidental to me, as I'd never get rid of the ones I have, especially the Nixon and Reagan ones.

Amra

19-02-2006, 07:45

Well, the value of it is incidental to me, as I'd never get rid of the ones I have, especially the Nixon and Reagan ones.
Exactly my point.

Sir EvilFreeSmeg

19-02-2006, 07:48

Haha. Are you related to Smeg?
Not that I know of. But I like how he buys books

Sokar Rostau

19-02-2006, 08:14

It's not about the money, it's about being a part of history, if you do things right you will never see any money but your ancestors might.

The feeling you get when you hold a piece of history in your hands is something very difficult to describe, especially if you have a more than passing interest in the subject. I used to collect hammered British coins and had coins of William the Conquereror, Queen Matilda, Richard the Lionhearted, King John, Edward I, Henry V and VIII, Elizabeth I, Charles I, the Commonwealth (Oliver Cromwell), Charles II and many more besides and knowing that these were items that were being handled at decisive events in hostory is, as I said, indescribable. It's the same with a signed book, like him or not owning a signed copy of a President's autobiography is a tangible piece of history. A President has put his thoughts, an intimate part of himself, into that book and then he has actually held that exact book and added his signature to it. I can imagine that one of my coins may have been at the Battle of Agincourt, for example, because it was minted for, and during the reign of, Henry V, but having the signed thoughts of a President is absolute proof you have something once held by a historical figure. It will become much more valued the longer he is dead, and does not resemble in any way the things signed by actors, musicians or sportsmen.

You have to have an appreciation of history for it to make real sense.

Lostprophet

19-02-2006, 08:28

I'd like someday to own everything Kurt Vonnegut Jr. has ever written. Same goes for Jose Saramago. Not sure 'bout leather, though.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 09:15

I'd like someday to own everything Kurt Vonnegut Jr. has ever written. Same goes for Jose Saramago. Not sure 'bout leather, though.

Vonnegut, in leather, personally signed. :) (http://www.eastonpress.com/ViewProduct.asp?Sku=1265)

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 11:38

Ovid's Metamorphoses

As we have people here in this thread with knowledge about things ancient, there's something i want to ask especially to the english speaking crowd.

Sokar said: "Ovid", now when i went to school his name was Ovidius. The same goes for Homer, when i was in school his name was Homerus.

Some more, because this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Marc Antony, i remember him as Marcus Antonius, and the list goes on and on.

What is it with the english speaking that makes them change the names of people ancient?

MithrandirX

19-02-2006, 11:51

Bortaz,

I think the only EP editions I own are some Ayn Rand, but I'm a long-time book collector / packrat. Last I bothered to count, I'm pushing 4k hardbound volumes. (most of which are completely dominating an entire wall of my parents' basement) The earliest bibliophilic item I have is a page of illuminated manuscript from the 12th century. I think the earliest printed items I have are some pamphlets from the American and French Revolution. I've got quite a selection of early-edition Walter Scott, A Dumas and some Dickens. Nothing really museum-quality, but very attractive readable copies. Longest is a 29 volume edition of Dumas. More recently, I've been patching holes in my modern first edition collection (mostly because they are the easiest to find and afford) Mostly done with Steinbeck, completely done with Hemingway. (except for a book of poetry that is far far out of my price range) Rand was easy - prices on her have really plummeted in the last couple years.

Anyway, collecting and preserving books is an intensely rewarding hobby. One rule I've always stuck to is that I never by a book I would be afraid to read. Just wear gloves on the really old / expensive stuff... On the other hand I have plenty of fishing rods I'm too scared to fish.

Being a book junky is awesome.

Dondrei

19-02-2006, 12:01

As we have people here in this thread with knowledge about things ancient, there's something i want to ask especially to the english speaking crowd.

Sokar said: "Ovid", now when i went to school his name was Ovidius. The same goes for Homer, when i was in school his name was Homerus.

Some more, because this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Marc Antony, i remember him as Marcus Antonius, and the list goes on and on.

What is it with the english speaking that makes them change the names of people ancient?

It's called anglicising (ie, making something English). Basically we chop off the masculine ending "us" from Roman names (and when the ending is -ius we make it -y), because English dropped that gender convention. However the feminine -a ending was never altered (that would have been very confusing since Roman women took their family name and added -a to make their name). It was only ever applied erratically and historians have mostly stopped it now.

I wasn't aware it was ever done with Greek names. Perhaps "Homerus" is actually a Romanised version of the Greek "Homer"? I know the Romans sometimes did that (an exact parallel of anglicising, amusingly).

Another example is Octavianus - he's called Octavian by English historians. He was born Gaius Octavius, but when he was adopted by Gaius Julius Caesar (his uncle, the first name "Gaius" they shared is a coincidence - Romans only had about twelve different common first names) his name was changed, as was the custom, to Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus. That is, he took the last name (Julius) and familial cognomen (Caesar) of his adoptive family and used his last name with the addional -an- (denoting that it was the family he was adopted from) as a second cognomen. Later he became the Emporer Augustus (because he was august). So for the period between his birth name Octavius and his famous appellation Augustus he is usually called Octavian. But interestingly they never chop the -us off of his original name - I guess "Octavy" sounds terrible.

Although in Marc Antony's case I heard that he himself chose to call himself that rather than the proper Marcus Antonius - it was something of a trendy thing to do at the time. That might be wrong though, since I'm pretty sure later generations didn't do likewise.

*EDIT*

Just remembered some other examples: July and August from the Roman Julius and Augustus.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 12:07

First off it has to be asked whether you have actually read, or ever intend to read, these books or if they are just there to make you look intelligent.

There's no need to read all your books. I always make sure to buy more books than I can read. That way, when I want something to read and can't think of anything I can just go over my bookcase until I find something that's interesting. It's great when friends come over too, and I don't mean for impressing them. I have a friend who I forced to read a bunch of books by Hunter S. Thompson. He got completely hooked on literature after that and now he reads one or two novels a week. Every time he visits he or I go over my books for something I haven't read and want a review of or something that's an absolute must-read.

Better to have more books than you can read than wanting a book to read but not having one.

BORTAZ:

You bastard. I want 10000$ worth of leather bound books in a nice library too, damn it! Unfortunately most of my books, or at least 50%, are paperbacks. Some are really fancy paperbacks, but still paperbacks.

Do you have any pictures of what they look like.

I'd be interested to see the list of the 100 best books evah according to those guys too.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 12:15

I wasn't aware it was ever done with Greek names. Perhaps "Homerus" is actually a Romanised version of the Greek "Homer"? I know the Romans sometimes did that (an exact parallel of anglicising, amusingly).

I don't know greek but I think it's actually supposed to be Homeros. The spelling HAM gave, with a "u", is probably some sort of romanization. I've seen a lot of greek names that end with "-os" "-ios" and "-es", but none that end with "-us". I'm certain that Homer isn't the correct form though.

EDIT: I think I can actually prove this, even.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer
Homer (Greek Ὅμηρος Hómēros)

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 12:19

Although in Marc Antony's case I heard that he himself chose to call himself that rather than the proper Marcus Antonius - it was something of a trendy thing to do at the time. That might be wrong though, since I'm pretty sure later generations didn't do likewise.
.

Where did you hear this? I mean that i find it hard to believe that Marcus Antonius would call himself Antony with a y rather than with an i.

Infact i do not believe that at all, but ofcourse i can be wrong but i do not think so.

Getting back to my question, changing people's names, that just isnt done. It would be like translating people's names, you dont do that.

If my name is Bruin, (wich is Flemish for Brown) when i get to England or the states, my name will still be Bruin instead of Brown.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 12:31

I don't know greek but I think it's actually supposed to be Homeros. The spelling HAM gave, with a "u", is probably some sort of romanization. I've seen a lot of greek names that end with "-os" "-ios" and "-es", but none that end with "-us". I'm certain that Homer isn't the correct form though.

EDIT: I think I can actually prove this, even.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer
Homer (Greek Ὅμηρος Hómēros)

The "us" or "os" at the end is ofcourse depending on the translation used in them day's. There were times in rome were it was fashionable to have your kids go to school in greek and there were times were it was not fashionable at all.

It's a very shady area when we get into the "us" or "os", one thing is certain though, wether his name was Homeros or Homerus, it most certainly wasnt Homer.

See Alexanders father, the english call him Philip? Someone with a lot more knowledge about ancient Greek times than me told me his name was Filipus, but if you were to pronounce it in the macedonian that was spoken by themself it would have sounded more like Billipos.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 12:32

Getting back to my question, changing people's names, that just isnt done. It would be like translating people's names, you dont do that.

People have been doing that for ages. I don't go around pronouncing Geroge Bush with an american accent or calling Paris Paree. That would be both silly and impractical. There is no way for us to pronounce greek names correctly since they used a fundamentally different form of accentuation. We transcribe their names to our alphabet and pronounce them in a (to us) more natural way, and the names are changed. No way around that.

I agree that calling Homeros Homer is wrong though.

Bortaz

19-02-2006, 12:45

BORTAZ:

You bastard. I want 10000$ worth of leather bound books in a nice library too, damn it! Unfortunately most of my books, or at least 50%, are paperbacks. Some are really fancy paperbacks, but still paperbacks.

Do you have any pictures of what they look like.

I'd be interested to see the list of the 100 best books evah according to those guys too.

The link in the OP has many pictures of the books. When I get my house completed and get moved in, I'll take some pictures of my library fully stocked. I'm considering using dark stained cherry for the shelves.

EDIT: Oh, and, uh...I've gotten the books all mixed up from the different sets, so I don't remember which ones were part of the 100 Greatest. I know Moby Dick was the first one I got (remember it because it was the first EP edition I ever got, and it was free :).

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 12:53

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 12:55

The link in the OP has many pictures of the books. When I get my house completed and get moved in, I'll take some pictures of my library fully stocked. I'm considering using dark stained cherry for the shelves.

EDIT: Oh, and, uh...I've gotten the books all mixed up from the different sets, so I don't remember which ones were part of the 100 Greatest. I know Moby Dick was the first one I got (remember it because it was the first EP edition I ever got, and it was free :).

I can't believe they don't have a list of the books on their site.

The books look nice, but they're a bit too frilly. Too much gold inlays and decorations. I like my books a bit more somber. Of course, that's just me.

Dondrei

19-02-2006, 12:56

I don't know greek but I think it's actually supposed to be Homeros. The spelling HAM gave, with a "u", is probably some sort of romanization. I've seen a lot of greek names that end with "-os" "-ios" and "-es", but none that end with "-us". I'm certain that Homer isn't the correct form though.

EDIT: I think I can actually prove this, even.

Yes, you're probably right. Damned if I'll ever call him "Homeros", though. Nor will I pronounce Julius Caesar "Yoo-lee-oos keye-sar" or Cicero "kick-eh-roh".

Where did you hear this? I mean that i find it hard to believe that Marcus Antonius would call himself Antony with a y rather than with an i.

Infact i do not believe that at all, but ofcourse i can be wrong but i do not think so.

I forget, but it is certainly highly suspect.

Getting back to my question, changing people's names, that just isnt done. It would be like translating people's names, you dont do that.

Anglicising isn't the same as translating, it's just making it more convenient for English speakers to pronounce (supposedly). It gets even worse with the names of countries, Germany for Deutschland, Japan for Nihon, et cetera. Of course those are for historical reasons.

If my name is Bruin, (wich is Flemish for Brown) when i get to England or the states, my name will still be Bruin instead of Brown.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, in the past a lot of Brauns (I think that's the German) became Browns when they emigrated to English speaking countries. It's much less common these days.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 12:58

I don't go around pronouncing Geroge Bush with an american accent or calling Paris Paree. .

Exactly my point, i am not talking accents here, and Paris is here name, pronouncing it as Paree would be translating it in french.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 13:03

I wouldn't be so sure about that, in the past a lot of Brauns (I think that's the German) became Browns when they emigrated to English speaking countries. It's much less common these days.

I think you should be sure of that, unless those Brauns changed there name into Brown for a variety of reasons, especially after the war :D, they still be named Braun.

If the brauns were to go to Japan, would their name be braun or sakiwebo?

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 13:17

And while we are speaking Homeros, Homerus or even Homer. What are people's toughts on the Ilias and the fiollow up, odyseeus?

Does anyone really think they are both written by the same man?

And what about the people that say that the Ilias, iliad, ilios does not describe the Trojan war at all, that it was merely adapted by Homerus (set in the greek world) and that infact the original story was about conquest in the south east part of england 500 years earlyer, concerning tin mines iirc.

I must say that in a certain way this makes sence because i cannot see how odyseeus can travel for like seven years to get from north east turky to greece over the see. i mean we are talking what, 60 kilometer?

I know he didnt travel seven years, he spend some time being held by that witch and all, but still, 60 kilometer? They could have done that in a day, even in them times.

And there is alot more that doesnt make sence in the Ilias, there is a point in time where Agamemnon, Odyseeus and Menelaus are standing at the beach and they watch the sun come up over the see. That would make the sun come up in the west?!?

Now if you would set this at the southeast coast of england it would fit a lot better.

Any thoughts on this?

Most literary historians aren't interested in Homeros existence anymore. Consensus is, the stories were passed down through time orally long before they were written down. Lots of elements in the Odysse can be found in other stories from the same general part of the world. It's a classic "nostos" story, a story of returning home. The one truly unique thing about it is that it was written down at such a relatively early stage. If Homeros existed and wrote the stories down he still wasn't the one who came up with them or even formulated them. That's not a very interesting question though. What's interesting is the relationship between those works and other nostos stories, i.e. the tradition itself.

About the historical accuracy... It's impossible to say. My guess is that some historical event has been incorporated into an already existing story. I find the England-theory hard to believe though, since there weren't that much contact between mediterranean/near east and northern Europe at that time. The literary traditions were probably quite different as well. Homeros tradition did not migrate to the greek world from England and I doubt it's about events most greeks had no cultural connection to. But then, Tacitus claims Hercules is buried in Germany, so you never know.

I think it's probably a bit like the 40 years in the desert in the old testament. A historical event is used in a story to make some sort of point, and to make sure the point comes across clearly the event is described with boatloads of poetic licence.

EDIT:

If the brauns were to go to Japan, would their name be braun or sakiwebo?

Bo-ro-no?

Yes, you're probably right. Damned if I'll ever call him "Homeros", though. Nor will I pronounce Julius Caesar "Yoo-lee-oos keye-sar" or Cicero "kick-eh-roh".

That's because you're anglo. You guys always have to do things differently, even if it's the wrong way. It's in your blood.

Dondrei

19-02-2006, 13:18

And while we are speaking Homeros, Homerus or even Homer. What are people's toughts on the Ilias and the fiollow up, odyseeus?

Does anyone really think they are both written by the same man?

And what about the people that say that the Ilias, iliad, ilios does not describe the Trojan war at all, that it was merely adapted by Homerus (set in the greek world) and that infact the original story was about conquest in the south east part of england 500 years earlyer, concerning tin mines iirc.

I must say that in a certain way this makes sence because i cannot see how odyseeus can travel for like seven years to get from north east turky to greece over the see. i mean we are talking what, 60 kilometer?

I know he didnt travel seven years, he spend some time being held by that witch and all, but still, 60 kilometer? They could have done that in a day, even in them times.

And there is alot more that doesnt make sence in the Ilias, there is a point in time where Agamemnon, Odyseeus and Menelaus are standing at the beach and they watch the sun come up over the see. That would make the sun come up in the west?!?

Now if you would set this at the southeast coast of england it would fit a lot better.

Any thoughts on this?

I haven't read the Odyssey, but I did read the Iliad. About halfway through, anyway - it was terrible:

And Damocles stepped out onto the field of battle. He was the son of Pyrocles who slew the six-headed hydra and the grandson of Hellacles who found the golden signet in the underworld, the great grandson of...

*twenty pages of boring side stories about his ancestors and glorious deeds*

...anyway, he stepped out onto the field of battle and got killed.

Then Patrocles stepped out onto the field of battle. He was the cousin of...

Rinse and repeat a hundred times and you have the Iliad.

I don't think there's much point trying to read anything into it, it's just romance and poetry. There may be a tiny kernel of truth somewhere in it (eg, once upon a time there was a city that may or may not have been called Ilium which may or may not have been destroyed by the Greeks), but 99.9999% of it is myth, legend, flourish and artistic nonsense.

I think you should be sure of that, unless those Brauns changed there name into Brown for a variety of reasons, especially after the war :D, they still be named Braun.

If the brauns were to go to Japan, would their name be braun or sakiwebo?

I doubt that would fool anyone. And it wasn't just the war, people had good reason to want to appear to fit in in their new country since time immemorial. In the multicultural modern age it's less of an issue.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 13:47

I haven't read the Odyssey, but I did read the Iliad. About halfway through, anyway - it was terrible:

About the Ilias being terrible, that depends on the translation, there are indeed terrible ones and wonderfull ones. I myself have read about 4 or 5 different translations, and i have experienced the same thing, some are a pain to read. The Odyseeus on the other hand reads like a train if you know what i mean, that's why i say they are not written by the same person.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 13:49

That's because you're anglo. You guys always have to do things differently, even if it's the wrong way. It's in your blood.

Drosselmeier, out of curiousety, where are you from?

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 13:55

Drosselmeier, out of curiousety, where are you from?

Sweden. Originally from Gävle, about 200 km north of Stockholm.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 14:05

Sweden. Originally from Gävle, about 200 km north of Stockholm.

Ah Sweden, have loads of friend up there. Probably next week i have to be there, Helsingborg or Gothenborg, scandinavian city's alway's have me confused.

I am looking forward to that weekend. :D

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 14:14

Ah Sweden, have loads of friend up there. Probably next week i have to be there, Helsingborg or Gothenborg, scandinavian city's alway's have me confused.

I am looking forward to that weekend. :D

I hope for your sake it's Gothenburg. Not that Helsingborg is a hellhole or anything, but Gothenburg is a lot bigger and a lot more fun. Come to Stockholm or Uppsala and I'll buy you a beer.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 14:23

I hope for your sake it's Gothenburg. Not that Helsingborg is a hellhole or anything, but Gothenburg is a lot bigger and a lot more fun. Come to Stockholm or Uppsala and I'll buy you a beer.

Uppsala rings a bell, dont know what for though. Maybe i am confusing Uppsala with a city in Finland.

Anyway, wether it is Helsingborg or Gothenborg, it doesnt make a difference really because we spend the weekend in the clubhouse there because the
Swedish police tends to put us on a plane back home if they see us. :D

Later this week i'll know for sure wich city it is so maybe you should come down there for a beer or anything else for that matter.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 14:33

Anyway, wether it is Helsingborg or Gothenborg, it doesnt make a difference really because we spend the weekend in the clubhouse there because the
Swedish police tends to put us on a plane back home if they see us. :D

I don't have to warn you about the druglaws I take it. :laugh:

I don't think I'll be able to do any travelling for a while, unfortunately. I have to put all my money away for my trip to Tunisia.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 15:18

I don't have to warn you about the druglaws I take it. :laugh:

I don't think I'll be able to do any travelling for a while, unfortunately. I have to put all my money away for my trip to Tunisia.

Is Gothenburg far away from where you are? Because once there you'd be a guest of mine so all drinks, food and stuff would be for free ofcourse.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 15:30

Is Gothenburg far away from where you are? Because once there you'd be a guest of mine so all drinks, food and stuff would be for free ofcourse.

It's not that far. About 300-350 km I think. It's really expensive to travel by train here these days though, and I don't have a car. It would cost about 100 euro round trip, minimum. Even more expensive if it's Helsingborg. I have the money but I really need to save it. If the Tunisia trip happens it will set me back at least 500 euro, which is a little more than I have left per month when my rent and bills are paid.

It's a shame. I've been meaning to go to skåne (southern Sweden) for a while now to visit friends, but there's never enough time or money. I suppose I should make the trip, but things get even more complicated if it's Gothenburg you're going to. I'll get back to you though. Unless you need to know right now I'll think about this for a while.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 15:59

It's not that far. About 300-350 km I think. It's really expensive to travel by train here these days though, and I don't have a car. It would cost about 100 euro round trip, minimum. Even more expensive if it's Helsingborg. I have the money but I really need to save it. If the Tunisia trip happens it will set me back at least 500 euro, which is a little more than I have left per month when my rent and bills are paid.

It's a shame. I've been meaning to go to skåne (southern Sweden) for a while now to visit friends, but there's never enough time or money. I suppose I should make the trip, but things get even more complicated if it's Gothenburg you're going to. I'll get back to you though. Unless you need to know right now I'll think about this for a while.

Nah, dont need to know right now. Fact is i am depending on someone else to get me there wich will probably be by car so there is always a small chance i do not get there myself. I'll know for sure the latest by next thursday, we are talking partytime at saturday night, so there is all the time in the world still.

And a great party it will be, we will be celebrating a 10th anniversary so it will be roxor! There will be anything between 200 and 500 hells angels there and friends so it's satisfaction garanteed. Trust me, it'll be like a party you have never experienced before, you'll tell your grandkids about it later. :D

Listen, if it doesnt work out dont worrie about it, there will alway's be a next time. We will see what happens in a couple day's and if there is a possabillity for you to show up there i'll pm you my phone number before i leave.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 16:03

And a great party it will be, we will be celebrating a 10th anniversary so it will be roxor! There will be anything between 200 and 500 hells angels there and friends so it's satisfaction garanteed. Trust me, it'll be like a party you have never experienced before, you'll tell your grandkids about it later. :D

Oh man! I'm almost forced to go then. Are you a biker? If you are your hatred for the police makes a lot of sense all of a sudden.

We'll talk more about it later, when you know if you're going and I've looked into the time and money thing.

EDIT: Ten years since that president got shot? Or was that in '95?

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 16:17

Oh man! I'm almost forced to go then. Are you a biker? If you are your hatred for the police makes a lot of sense all of a sudden.

We'll talk more about it later, when you know if you're going and I've looked into the time and money thing.

EDIT: Ten years since that president got shot? Or was that in '95?

Do you mean the one that was shot by the bandidos? Wich bruoght on the whole war thing? You probably heard about that one, being Swedish.

Anyway, i have been known to ride a bike but i kinda object to the term 'biker', i am a Hells Angel, not a biker. Trust me, there is a difference.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 16:51

Do you mean the one that was shot by the bandidos? Wich bruoght on the whole war thing? You probably heard about that one, being Swedish.

Anyway, i have been known to ride a bike but i kinda object to the term 'biker', i am a Hells Angel, not a biker. Trust me, there is a difference.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Is it a party in his honor or something? I'm just guessing here, but that thing came to mind almost immediately when I started thinking about HA and the mid 90's.

I don't know that much about Hells Angel culture. I sort of assumed you all rode motorcycles.

Now I know why you don't want the police to know about you coming. I can see how that could ruin the trip. :laugh:

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 17:00

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Is it a party in his honor or something? I'm just guessing here, but that thing came to mind almost immediately when I started thinking about HA and the mid 90's.

I don't know that much about Hells Angel culture. I sort of assumed you all rode motorcycles.

We do ride bikes, we could hardly call ourselfs a motorcycle club if we didnt, however, we are not bikers, we are HA.

Now I know why you don't want the police to know about you coming. I can see how that could ruin the trip. :laugh:

Thats why we will probably drive up there, if we go by plane the police will be at the airport when we arrive to send us back.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 17:04

We do ride bikes, we could hardly call ourselfs a motorcycle club if we didnt, however, we are not bikers, we are HA.

Heh... now I'm almost a bit worried about offending you. You know, you read stuff in the papers... sorry.

;)

Now I get your name by the way. Took me a while to figure that out.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 17:24

Heh... now I'm almost a bit worried about offending you. You know, you read stuff in the papers... sorry..

Yeah, dont offend me here, not before the party anyway. :D

Now I get your name by the way. Took me a while to figure that out.

It's not that hard really. :D You know, HA MC. Now if you were to figure out the numbers, that would surprise me.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 17:33

It's not that hard really. :D You know, HA MC. Now if you were to figure out the numbers, that would surprise me.

HAAB

HA & Your chapter name? Antwerp or Amsterdam maybe?

December '81?

maccool

19-02-2006, 17:38

It's not that hard really. :D You know, HA MC. Now if you were to figure out the numbers, that would surprise me.

Color me stupid :duh:. I thought you really liked bacon.

Yay, I are learnding!

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 17:49

HAAB

HA & Your chapter name? Antwerp or Amsterdam maybe?

I see you did your homework on this, i am Antwerp, Amsterdam is 8118.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 17:50

Color me stupid :duh:. I thought you really liked bacon.

Yay, I are learnding!

Yep, i like bacon.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 18:00

I see you did your homework on this, i am Antwerp, Amsterdam is 8118.

I was just guessing. All I know about HA I learned from Hells Angels by Hunter S. Thompson. The information in that book is seriously dated though, since it was written in the late 60's. I remember there being lots of numbers used as codes in different ways in those days. That's why I guessed it was code for letters giving away your chapter. I didn't think it was an area code. When I figured HA MC out I figured the numbers might well be the chapter, since those things usually go together as far as I know. Wrong in detail but came to the right conclusion.

I'm so clever.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 18:08

I was just guessing. All I know about HA I learned from Hells Angels by Hunter S. Thompson.

Aargh, Thompson, forget about him, he is/was a liar. If you want to read about the club read "three can keep a secret if two are dead."

But remember, most of the things you can read about the club are bull****.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 18:18

But remember, most of the things you can read about the club are bull****.

I'm aware of that. It's like reading about drug culture or youth culture, or any other marginal culture in fact. The people who write about it usually don't understand the subject in question and those on the inside usually don't talk that openly about it.

I still say Thompson is a great writer though. You have to take everything he writes with a grain of salt, but when hee's on he's one of the most entertaining authors there ever was.

Look at that. Our hijack has led back on topic. Books.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 18:29

Look at that. Our hijack has led back on topic. Books.

Oh yes, books. Carry on people, dont mind us. :D

Sokar Rostau

19-02-2006, 19:50

The site of Troy is located on the Bosporus. The sun was rising over the Euxine (Black) Sea. No need to invoke Phoenicians (Phœnicians) here. The Iliad is a Romanised form of the title, the Romans rebuilt Troy and translated the name as Illium. The Romans had their national epic in the form of The Aeneid (properly spelt Æneid, but that is very rarely seen anymore), similar in many ways to the Odessey, where Aeneas travelled around the Med' in the aftermath of the Trojan War, stopping in North Africa and falling in love with Dido, Queen of Carthage. Their break up was supposedly the root cause of the Punic Wars. Eventually Aeneas' founded Latium and his descendent, Romulus, founded Rome. Virgil clearly based this on both the Odyssey and legends from the Greek colonies in southern Italy.

EDIT: The was meant to be a point about language here but my connection failed and I forgot what it was...

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 19:59

The site of Troy is located on the Bosporus. The sun was rising over the Euxine (Black) Sea. No need to invoke Phoenicians (Phœnicians) here. The Iliad is a Romanised form of the title, the Romans rebuilt Troy and translated the name as Illium. The Romans had their national epic in the form of The Aeneid (properly spelt Æneid, but that is very rarely seen anymore), similar in many ways to the Odessey, where Aeneas travelled around the Med' in the aftermath of the Trojan War, stopping in North Africa and falling in love with Dido, Queen of Carthage. Their break up was supposedly the root cause of the Punic Wars. Eventually Aeneas' founded Latium and his descendent, Romulus, founded Rome. Virgil clearly based this on both the Odyssey and legends from the Greek colonies in southern Italy.

Hmm... the bosphorus, that would make it where exactly? Seems i lack some in the geografy departement.

maccool

19-02-2006, 20:06

Hmm... the bosphorus, that would make it where exactly? Seems i lack some in the geografy departement.

Over there somewhere. *waves hands and points towards Asia minor*

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 20:08

Hmm... the bosphorus, that would make it where exactly? Seems i lack some in the geografy departement.

North-western Turkey.

The Aeneid was a propaganda number written to justify roman master race fantasies. It's completely unbearable. I've never met anyone who actually liked that formulaic piece of crap. The only reason Virgil even suvived until the middle ages is that some people think he's written a prophecy about Christ and pegged him as some sort of graced heathen.

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 20:45

North-western Turkey.

ok, thought so.

I never believed that Troje was there, at that location i mean because it was way to small, it was only 2 soccerfields big so i didnt think that a major city could be that small.

Untill they did the thing from a plane, where they take pictures or something from a plane and it turned out there was a lot more waiting to be excavated.

So now i think maybe it was there, but than again, maybe not.

Still a great story though, the ilias i mean.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 20:54

Still a great story though, the ilias i mean.

Yeah. I actually prefer the Iliad to the Odyssee. Both of them are masterpieces and millions of times better than the Aeneid. The Iliad is just more intense and gripping. One of the few books discussing morals that never bored me or pissed me off.

stormrage112345

19-02-2006, 21:20

I want the leather bound edition of the D&D Special Edition Player's Handbook, 3.5

HAMC8112

19-02-2006, 21:22

Yeah. I actually prefer the Iliad to the Odyssee. Both of them are masterpieces and millions of times better than the Aeneid. The Iliad is just more intense and gripping. One of the few books discussing morals that never bored me or pissed me off.

I wonder if the Ilias wayback when it was written was an account of the whole Trojan war. Because what we have now is about a week or six at the end of the war, so i wonder if in the beginning maybe it was a lot more.

If we could only go back in time.

Sokar Rostau

19-02-2006, 21:27

I wasn't extolling the virtues of the Aeneid. I was going to say something about English and how words such as Phœnicia, Æneid and æncyclopædia are now spelt differently, despite the fact I learnt to spell them that way in school during the 80's and 90's... I just forgot what it was.

Drosselmeier

19-02-2006, 21:37

I wonder if the Ilias wayback when it was written was an account of the whole Trojan war. Because what we have now is about a week or six at the end of the war, so i wonder if in the beginning maybe it was a lot more.

The rest of the story was known by all but wasn't part of this telling of the story. Does that make sense. It's sort of like if someone was to remake only part of one of the Star Wars films and tell it from a new perspective, like focusing on Boba Fett.

I wasn't extolling the virtues of the Aeneid.

Yeah, I know. I just felt like whining about what a piece of **** it is when it was brought up.

Dondrei

19-02-2006, 23:24

It says HAM is a Hell's Angel in his profile, and he talks about it often enough I'm surprised everyone doesn't know.

The only thing I know about Hell's Angels is that they're a bunch of guys with beer guts and huge unkempt beards who act really macho but invariably have Oedipus complexes and are seriously homoerotic.

That's because you're anglo. You guys always have to do things differently, even if it's the wrong way. It's in your blood.

Our way is always the right way. You mean to say that the Swedes never modified spelling and pronunciation of foreign words when they were introduced?

Actually I'm only half Anglo, the other half is Celtic - my father was Australian (originally they were English but to be honest they're probably complete mongrels by now) and my mother Scottish.

The site of Troy is located on the Bosporus. The sun was rising over the Euxine (Black) Sea. No need to invoke Phoenicians (Phœnicians) here.

While I'm pretty sure Homer wasn't thinking of such technicalities and designed the scene in question purely for dramatic reasons, I was under the impression that Troy was near the Hellespont (the Dardanelles). The channel runs northwest until it hits the sea of Marmara when it turns roughly east. It's a long way to that sea from Troy, and even if they were standing there I'm not convinced the sun would really be rising over water.

Even if it was on the Bosporus, the coastline there runs just slightly south of easterly before turning northeast again - I mean, it's conceivable that the sun would be rising over water (only just), but on a clear morning you could probably see all the way to the Anatolian coast and it'd be rising over that.

It's far from infallible, but wikipedia agrees about the ancient location: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy

The Iliad is a Romanised form of the title, the Romans rebuilt Troy and translated the name as Illium. The Romans had their national epic in the form of The Aeneid (properly spelt Æneid, but that is very rarely seen anymore), similar in many ways to the Odessey, where Aeneas travelled around the Med' in the aftermath of the Trojan War, stopping in North Africa and falling in love with Dido, Queen of Carthage. Their break up was supposedly the root cause of the Punic Wars. Eventually Aeneas' founded Latium and his descendent, Romulus, founded Rome. Virgil clearly based this on both the Odyssey and legends from the Greek colonies in southern Italy.

Yes, clearly the Aenid was just literary piracy cooked up to add a splash of culture to Rome's unglamourous founding myths and legends.

Weren't all diphthongs originally written together like that? I remember old "encyclopædias" in my school library.

The Aeneid was a propaganda number written to justify roman master race fantasies. It's completely unbearable. I've never met anyone who actually liked that formulaic piece of crap. The only reason Virgil even suvived until the middle ages is that some people think he's written a prophecy about Christ and pegged him as some sort of graced heathen.

I thought he disappeared until the Renaissance like the rest of Roman culture. Well, my Middle Ages history is pretty poor (I always found that period boring, pointless and repetitive).

Yeah. I actually prefer the Iliad to the Odyssee. Both of them are masterpieces and millions of times better than the Aeneid. The Iliad is just more intense and gripping. One of the few books discussing morals that never bored me or pissed me off.

Your translation must have been so much different from mine that we were reading different books. Do you know of a translation you'd recommend?