Pubby Hammerdons... BM?

[TarnishedHope]

I'm growing sick and tired of them.

They always walk into game, and charge/hamer/charge/hamer/charge hamer, and start to call people EZPK.

No matter how well geared you are, a hammerdon will knock your life down easily. Currently, there's no guaranteed strat against them, especially those who have more experiences with hammerdons.

I'm not saying that all hammerdons are BM, but seriously, I don't like them. Most of them think they are godly and etc, and will never shut up about themselves.

Hammers come out from top, and have blindspots. Nonetheless, if people are somehow experienced with them, they'll kill others quite easily.

Is it just me, or do the rest of you hate it when you see an annoying, gloating hammerdon walking into pub dueling? It could be just me, but I seriously hate people that duel with them and bs. :evil:

[A C E]

Good sorc or windy = gg hammerdin

Any kind of ranged attack will decimate these guys just as long as you have enough "skill". By that I mean knowing what to do againstthem. Try making a fireball sorc and just practice, practice, practice.

Chars that should do well agaist a hammerdin (I'm not sure about this, just making educated guesses)

-windy
-sorc
-bone necro
-amazon


I find that most pubbies like hammerdins b/c they can spam and wait for other pubbies to walk into the hammers and die. They always call me a hacker when i tele straight into their hammer field with my windy and kill them w/o getting a single scratch.

[TarnishedHope]

Well, I generally duel with BvC.

The not-so-bad hammerdons generally takes more than 1 WW to kill them, and the hammers they spammed usually do me in by my 2rd WW. (MB/DR... gah) Whenever I tele on him and WW, he'll tele away (or charge) and spam hammers.

Thanks for the advises. I got kind of mad because some random pubby hammerdons won't stop gloating, and it seriously pissed me off.

Now, I think I'm gonna go and revive my windy. :jig:

[A C E]

Yeah, anybody that gloats in pvp pisses my off to. GoGo Super WINDY!!!!!!!!!

[sorceressgod]

yes, hammerdins are already BMs. and so are bowazons(usually).

my sorc can destroy them quite easily though, but sometimes got hitted by one rotating hammer out of no where ;P

[kabal]

Well, I generally duel with BvC.

The not-so-bad hammerdons generally takes more than 1 WW to kill them, and the hammers they spammed usually do me in by my 2rd WW. (MB/DR... gah) Whenever I tele on him and WW, he'll tele away (or charge) and spam hammers.

Thanks for the advises. I got kind of mad because some random pubby hammerdons won't stop gloating, and it seriously pissed me off.

Now, I think I'm gonna go and revive my windy. :jig:

You don't ever want to tele on top of a hammerdin (i.e. namelock tele) when he's in his hammerfield. If they're desync hammerdins try tele'ing in front of them as they're charging (they'll be about half a screen to a screen ahead of where they appear), do a long WW, and hope that they'll charge right into you. If you anticipate them tele'ing on top of you, WW down and you should be able to score a hit while avoiding his hammers. Keep a Widowmaker on switch if you can, that should make things a little easier too.

[masterazn]

Just far cast their butts. EZPK.

[Konfu]

um'ed widowmaker should do the trick I think, just keep away from them and let them slowly loos blood :)

[CupOfTea]

I have dualwield barb , and I kill 80-90% pub hammerdins (not easy but i do)

Then they tele on you, you ww down or east (for more hits).

If he stands and cast hammers , just leap him much, while only 2-3 hammers are spining around them, then tele below them and ww north. I get hit sometimes but i wound them much more

Other hammerdins try charge around you , but i always find way how to ww thorough them

If he flee to town with 10% life, namelock tele on them and ww

Now there are desync-charge hammerdins that are very hard, but how many you see them in pubs?

[disc]

yes, hammerdins are already BMs. and so are bowazons(usually).

if its the style of play that offends you then its the player controlling the character not the character itself. some people dont seem to understand the difference.

[Phyrexial]

If you want to see some serious hammerdin killing watch mcm in action:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=423326

Scroll down to the rapidshare links.

[jake007]

if its the style of play that offends you then its the player controlling the character not the character itself. some people dont seem to understand the difference.

Exactly. No point of go BM this BM that.


Good sorc or windy = gg hammerdin

Most of you make out hammerdins as sitting ducks. They aren't as a matter of fact. A well played hammerdin is a nightmare to duel.

Wind druid is pretty much on equal ground with hammerdin.

A good sorc is not much of a problem, a good trapper is.

EDIT EDIT:

I'm growing sick and tired of them.

They always walk into game, and charge/hamer/charge/hamer/charge hamer, and start to call people EZPK.

No matter how well geared you are, a hammerdon will knock your life down easily. Currently, there's no guaranteed strat against them, especially those who have more experiences with hammerdons.

I'm not saying that all hammerdons are BM, but seriously, I don't like them. Most of them think they are godly and etc, and will never shut up about themselves.

Hammers come out from top, and have blindspots. Nonetheless, if people are somehow experienced with them, they'll kill others quite easily.

Is it just me, or do the rest of you hate it when you see an annoying, gloating hammerdon walking into pub dueling? It could be just me, but I seriously hate people that duel with them and bs.

I don't like trappers, javazons, orbers, fballers, blizzard, infinity sorcs. Does that mean they're all BM?

[RetroStar]

I would say a well prepared bow zon > hammerdins. Massive FRW and staying off the screen with good d/a/e.

[Speederländer]

I would say a well prepared bow zon > hammerdins. Massive FRW and staying off the screen with good d/a/e.

A good hammer will include a minimal melee attack and should rarely have any trouble with zons if they use charge properly.

[Speederländer]

I don't like trappers, javazons, orbers, fballers, blizzard, infinity sorcs. Does that mean they're all BM?

Yes, because "BM" is completely arbitrary. Any person or group can make up any standards they like, at any time, and then start happily labeling everyone who doesn't play by their rules "BM". This is why it's so wonderful. They can make it up as they go.

[Rauth]

Yeah, what jake and speeder said pretty much.

sorcs are only good against hammerdins that don't absorb/stack you(you know, 1/100).

Windies are about equal if the hammerdin doesnt play too offensively. Kind of a standoff till someone messes up.

Barbs can win, but it takes specific gear and patience. Even played perfectly, an invisible hammer is an invisible hammer.

[Dexterity]

Yeah, pretty much any character that beats me is BM.

[De4dEyE]

If you're a barb and a hdin teles on you, WW to the right and left then down. Alternatively, if you don't have good reflexes just WW down. Try to avoid teleing on an Hdin because a namelocked tele will drop you right above him, right where the hammers are. If he charges around, do long WWs randomly, etc. etc. I'm sure most of you have read what mcm/blobs/whoever have said about desynching hdins.

[Lyrs]

Having a pair of Dooms on hand seems to help with desync' hammerdins, but it's generally still a tough battle as 3 hits and most characters are dead.

[A C E]

Most of you make out hammerdins as sitting ducks. They aren't as a matter of fact. A well played hammerdin is a nightmare to duel.

Wind druid is pretty much on equal ground with hammerdin.

A good sorc is not much of a problem, a good trapper is.

Thats true, but I wasn't talking about good hammerdins, I was talking about pubby hammerdins.:wink3:

[TarnishedHope]

As I said before, I was mad/pissed when I made this thread, and I apologize.

However, I directed the BM issues mainly on those pubby hammerdons. No offense to hammerdons out there, but generally, they are annoying and gloat too much for a rather unfair character.

Is there a weakness for a well-played hammerdon? Barely any.

How many hammers can a tank barb afford to get hit by? (desyn.) 2~3.

Their DMG = very overpowered in PvP. Unlike necros, they are not low hp casters, and can hit MB easily. The fact that their hammers can desyn. makes it almost impossible to avoid it completely, no matter how well you've played.

I apologize for generalizing PvP hammerdons, but most of the pubby hammerdons are as I described. :hanky:

I don't like tossing BM around, and I rarely ever consider anything BM except NK/red/rejuv potting. However, when their attacks are invisible and hardly avoidable (when skills cease to matter), I see it as BM. (especially when people gloat and brag about their play styles, when they merely abused their desyned hammers)

[Ce Olba]

I've played my BvC for quite a while, and lately there hasn't been more than like 1-3 Pubby Hammerdins to give me trouble 1v1. I just slap widowmaker on switch, 15% ias jeweled Arreat's, angelics, grief+beast, and spam GA until they come close, if they do, I WW. As for desynchers, random LONG WWs should do, since you both should desynch, thus it's a case of luck, but mostly the hammerdins are too dumb to realise that you are desynching them A LOT.

But then there are those good hammerdins, who know how to desynch well, and who know that you can also desynch, those are the ones that WILL kill you. Nothing much you can do against them, except hope that they make mistakes and die.

Personally, I find IBS boners harder than Hammerdins. As they tele at 9 FPS, spam invisible attacks, that do a lot of dmg, and have like, infinite mana (at least the good ones have insight merc and go max block and rest 50/50 ene/vita). And if you get a namelock on a good one, the nec will instantly tele away to break it, and then start spamming IBS again, and this goes on until one of you dies.

[Imbecile]

I've played my BvC for quite a while, and lately there hasn't been more than like 1-3 Pubby Hammerdins to give me trouble 1v1. I just slap widowmaker on switch, 15% ias jeweled Arreat's, angelics, grief+beast, and spam GA until they come close, if they do, I WW. As for desynchers, random LONG WWs should do, since you both should desynch, thus it's a case of luck, but mostly the hammerdins are too dumb to realise that you are desynching them A LOT.

But then there are those good hammerdins, who know how to desynch well, and who know that you can also desynch, those are the ones that WILL kill you. Nothing much you can do against them, except hope that they make mistakes and die.

Personally, I find IBS boners harder than Hammerdins. As they tele at 9 FPS, spam invisible attacks, that do a lot of dmg, and have like, infinite mana (at least the good ones have insight merc and go max block and rest 50/50 ene/vita). And if you get a namelock on a good one, the nec will instantly tele away to break it, and then start spamming IBS again, and this goes on until one of you dies.

Most pure-breed lamerdins also have 125% fcr, meaning they also tele and attack at 9 frames.

[Ce Olba]

Most pure-breed lamerdins also have 125% fcr, meaning they also tele and attack at 9 frames.

Yea and most of them use Full Rejuvs which makes them almost immortal.

But I never was talking about a pure-breeded lamerdin with 16x Full Juvs, I was talking about a general 125% Fcr max blocking hammerdin.

And most of them are pretty easy, some are hard. I just went 7-2 versus a Max DR Max block hammerdin, and I used duress+widowmaker/grief+beast.

[BluzMan]

I would say a well prepared bow zon > hammerdins. Massive FRW and staying off the screen with good d/a/e.Lvl 1 charge + lvl 1 smite + Grief PB in stash + 1 point in Fanaticism = death to bowzons.

[jake007]

Yea and most of them use Full Rejuvs which makes them almost immortal.

But I never was talking about a pure-breeded lamerdin with 16x Full Juvs, I was talking about a general 125% Fcr max blocking hammerdin.

And most of them are pretty easy, some are hard. I just went 7-2 versus a Max DR Max block hammerdin, and I used duress+widowmaker/grief+beast.

Max DR hammerdins will be limited to 10 frame-cast, they are not hard to duel, at all...

And please, don't label hammerdins as lamerdins, for they are just a standard build. Smiters are more dominant than hammerdins IMO...

I'm not sure where you play, but most of the hammerdins I've duelled in Europe Ladder played fair and square.

[Ce Olba]

Max DR hammerdins will be limited to 10 frame-cast, they are not hard to duel, at all...

And please, don't label hammerdins as lamerdins, for they are just a standard build. Smiters are more dominant than hammerdins IMO...

I'm not sure where you play, but most of the hammerdins I've duelled in Europe Ladder played fair and square.

I play on Europe Softcore Non-Ladder.

And also, i labelled the specific, Juving hammerdins to be lamerdins. Hammerdin is a Hammerdin, as long as they don't use Full Juvs, then they turn into Lamerdin. I put it simple enough for you?

[Imbecile]

Max DR hammerdins will be limited to 10 frame-cast, they are not hard to duel, at all...

And please, don't label hammerdins as lamerdins, for they are just a standard build. Smiters are more dominant than hammerdins IMO...

I'm not sure where you play, but most of the hammerdins I've duelled in Europe Ladder played fair and square.

I don't know what realm you are plain on, but on EU scnl it's possible to maintain 125% fcr and still high-end dr:
Wiz 50
Spirit Sacred targe 35
Magefist 20
Pala Craft amu 20

125% fcr

PDR:
shako w/ ber 18%
enigma 8%
bugbelt 20%

46% pdr

[CupOfTea]

Yea, and you can prebuff with threachery (additional 15 pdr)

[sorceressgod]

i did this before with my barb on a spamming hammerdin..

i teled onto the bottom left of him(about 7 o' clock) and whirlwind downwards, was surprised i didn't get hitted.

most hammerdins get owned by sorceress though, unless they are those malicious ones who tele like mad.

[Rauth]

i did this before with my barb on a spamming hammerdin..

i teled onto the bottom left of him(about 7 o' clock) and whirlwind downwards, was surprised i didn't get hitted.

most hammerdins get owned by sorceress though, unless they are those malicious ones who tele like mad.

Desynch charge = near impossible to hit with fbs or lightning. Blizz has a slightly better chance since it can inta-hit, but even then its hard. Add to that the fact that most hammerdins will either absorb or max res you, and you're pretty much screwed.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Most of pub hdins with hoto's are easy. Its the ones that go full out bm sorb / heal with wizzies or enough wealth and time to have devoted in game to have a viper bludgeon that are scary sometimes.

builds I can think of right now that can just downright beat them down -

Most ES Sorcs and even non ES ones can just namelock + hold. When they even manage to namelock tele you, they should go on fhr animation which is 100% ownage you.

Bonemancers. Constant tele. You wait a second longer and they'll jumptele spam you. Hammers do way more damage than your spears/spirits will. Tele far back with your superior fcr (usually) and spam spam tele.

Windies. Very easy to beat HDin's with them. Either find a blindspot in Hammerfield or just jump around with occasional spam. Nadoes have a farther range, and NEVER stay motionless. If you're constantly casting nadoes, as soon as they get near they'll instantly die.

BvC - Leap Leap then GA from Widow a couple times. After eating couple ga's, most will try to tele you hoping to get while you have your bow out. Too bad you turned BeastZ GriefZ second before and already in the ww motion a second before he makes his move.

None in sins, unless he doesn't sorb your trapper.

Mage, FoH, and V/T completely shreds hammerdins.

[blobswannabe]

Bowzon > hammerdins unless they use doom and charge you but that can be countered by partying with someone.

Necros with prison and summon stack make hammerdins cry.

DOom windy with wolf stack also do well against desynch hammerdins.

Lastly if they don't mass stack/sorb you most elemental builds should be ok.

[luis19]

its very hard to beat a bm hdin.
you can outtank a druid in bm
and outtank a necro in bm (yes even with vives, eternity)
dont forget an hdin can easily put on grief with a point in fana or just 08 valk (ias enough for 6 frames smite w/o fana with pb).

u basicaly have to be superior in hvh or team up, like necro+druid.

also there is gookmod aka aa that works like fc. in other words its hard to detect.

[blobswannabe]

its very hard to beat a bm hdin.
you can outtank a druid in bm
and outtank a necro in bm (yes even with vives, eternity)
dont forget an hdin can easily put on grief with a point in fana or just 08 valk (ias enough for 6 frames smite w/o fana with pb).

u basicaly have to be superior in hvh or team up, like necro+druid.

also there is gookmod aka aa that works like fc. in other words its hard to detect.

I never had trouble vs any bm hammerdin or hammerdins with my nec even without prison. I just unsummon lock them as they come out and telespear lock and hear the aa accusations. and having skellies doesn't hurt. ^^ also my zon > any hammerdin without a charge weapon, my windy can play "1-2 nado tele out,recast" to kill rejuving hammerdins, and lastly i can just bring out my own rejuving hammerdin since i have 5 full rejuv mules.

no good nec should ever have trouble vs hammerdins even if slow missled. of course you might die once in a while if you are chasing after one but overall you should come out on top espeically if you play semi-defensively.

[luis19]

fool, eternity = revives= u die on a necro if not stalemate also hdins can get 5k life so they can usually juv/town/s.e before u kill.

on the other hand if ur a block necro u die in 1, maybe 2 hammers so u cant make as many mistakes.
or they can just run u out of mana or use medi with high lvl prayer. its annoy duel vs those that wanna *** u.

[Neurofuzzy]

Well, I have killed some Hammer pallys with my BvC. I leap around until the hammers are gone and than tele/ww. Sometimes I use a doom as the second weapon (they cant run around so well...). lol

[sorceressgod]

I never had trouble vs any bm hammerdin or hammerdins with my nec even without prison. I just unsummon lock them as they come out and telespear lock and hear the aa accusations. and having skellies doesn't hurt. ^^ also my zon > any hammerdin without a charge weapon, my windy can play "1-2 nado tele out,recast" to kill rejuving hammerdins, and lastly i can just bring out my own rejuving hammerdin since i have 5 full rejuv mules.

no good nec should ever have trouble vs hammerdins even if slow missled. of course you might die once in a while if you are chasing after one but overall you should come out on top espeically if you play semi-defensively.


hmm, when u tele on them wouldn't the namelock disappear after u tele upon them? plus when they are spamming hammers already is it still possible to tele on them w/o getting hitted(like those really good wind druids)?

ty

[blobswannabe]

fool, eternity = revives= u die on a necro if not stalemate also hdins can get 5k life so they can usually juv/town/s.e before u kill.

on the other hand if ur a block necro u die in 1, maybe 2 hammers so u cant make as many mistakes.
or they can just run u out of mana or use medi with high lvl prayer. its annoy duel vs those that wanna *** u.

it's not hard to not make mistakes vs a hammerdin when you are a minion stacking necro. Besides i got my own bm hammerdin packed with full rejuvs.

[jake007]

None in sins, unless he doesn't sorb your trapper.

Surprisingly, the hardest matchup for a hammerdin is a trapper, absorb OR not.

86FHR is not going to save your *** from their constant MB + Trap stun, and it's difficult to get a namelock tele on top of them as they will run around all day with BoS.

Druid get's raped by desynching hammerdin, and hammerdin gets raped by wolf-stacking-recasting druid. They both rape each other in equal amount. Even duel.

Orber is a hard one for hammerdin. A good one will not give you time to namelock them.

[Phyrexial]

Surprisingly, the hardest matchup for a hammerdin is a trapper, absorb OR not.

86FHR is not going to save your *** from their constant MB + Trap stun, and it's difficult to get a namelock tele on top of them as they will run around all day with BoS.
Shift+Charge+Grief on switch > MB.

[jake007]

Shift+Charge+Grief on switch > MB.

I've tried that, a good BoS runner run at an angle where your charge misses most of the time. By the time you catchup you'd be dead.

[Phyrexial]

I've tried that, a good BoS runner run at an angle where your charge misses most of the time. By the time you catchup you'd be dead.
With Tgod's on the hammerdin will last a decent amount of time and sooner or later your traps die and you'll have to stop to cast...

[luis19]

also alot of hdins put points into Lite Resist aura
= 90 lite resist with tgods on
on east tgods is considered "gm" in the biggested dueling circles (d2pk and any clan gm duel).

very hard duel for both actually, sin cant make mistakes and hdin has to charge in, hammer, and run away then repeat 100x.

[SicHalo]

Surprisingly, the hardest matchup for a hammerdin is a trapper, absorb OR not.

86FHR is not going to save your *** from their constant MB + Trap stun, and it's difficult to get a namelock tele on top of them as they will run around all day with BoS.




That true i have a hybrid WW trapper and in pubs i face alot of name lock tele hammerdins and all i even have to do is wait for the tele lock and simply trap and mb them to death even with tg on. Its over so soon i dont even have to worry about WW most of the time.

The best option by far i seen is strapping the grief on and charging because as Phyrexial stated charge can get though mb but even then the pure build trappers use BoS and they can be a nightmare to catch as i dont think know one is stupid enough to run in a straight line to get hit by a charger.

Or Dsyncing may give u a good chance.

[masterazn]

Trappers vs hammers = no match.

I'm on USWest and I have never died to a trapper or any assassin for that matter.

[jake007]

Trappers vs hammers = no match.

I'm on USWest and I have never died to a trapper or any assassin for that matter.

You got to be joking...

[luis19]

u realize if the hdin has 10+ into lite resist it will take u 15 mins or more to get 1 kill. on the other hand it takes them 2-3 hammers to kill you.

its a pretty even matchup.
ww sin has a easier time imo cuz max mb + ww away + ow

[HappyAssassin]

Well, ive found that while a good hammerdin is really tough to beat for anyone (1 small mistake = dead), my wwsin can kill the type you describe pretty often. See, most guys who just spam hammers and "eZpk" are totally over confident. You drop some traps are your feet, let your shadow mb them for mb them yourself, then ww away to the lower right (very short ww). They get totally stunned and cant get extra hammers off if you keep wwing them. They usually juv and town if they can. Most hammerdins who kill me these days have to try 5-10 time till i mess up and they get me. Then comes the inevidable "eZpk." Yeah right. Good hammerdins are deadly though...

[masterazn]

Well, ive found that while a good hammerdin is really tough to beat for anyone (1 small mistake = dead), my wwsin can kill the type you describe pretty often. See, most guys who just spam hammers and "eZpk" are totally over confident. You drop some traps are your feet, let your shadow mb them for mb them yourself, then ww away to the lower right (very short ww). They get totally stunned and cant get extra hammers off if you keep wwing them. They usually juv and town if they can. Most hammerdins who kill me these days have to try 5-10 time till i mess up and they get me. Then comes the inevidable "eZpk." Yeah right. Good hammerdins are deadly though...

Again, I've never been stun-locked by an assassin before with my hammerdin. It's so easy to just charge out of mind blast.

[Rauth]

Again, I've never been stun-locked by an assassin before with my hammerdin. It's so easy to just charge out of mind blast.

Yes it is, but its also near impossible to cast hammers while being mind blasted. A good one will lock you Every single time you get on screen. Their shadow masters will make sure you have mb swirlies on you Before you even come on screen.

[sorceressgod]

well, most sorcy's are quite ez for 125 fcr hammerdins...

but those who know how to manuever, can never get killed by one lol.

[luis19]

pally's high fhr bp and 20% chance to be uninterrupted from conc = you can get hammers off.

[Rauth]

pally's high fhr bp and 20% chance to be uninterrupted from conc = you can get hammers off.

But in the correct place? not likely. Mb pushes you around and whatnot. you'll get a few, but its not like the trapper will hold still for that anyway.

[luis19]

silly rauth have u forgotten about inv hammers?

[sorceressgod]

MB + lightning traps that are within you range that keeps hitting you = nearly unavoidable.

each blast from the traps also gives u a little fhr.. along with MB it's insane.

[sorceressgod]

MB + lightning traps that are within you range that keeps hitting you = nearly unavoidable.

each blast from the traps also gives u a little fhr.. along with MB it's insane.

[SicHalo]

pally's high fhr bp and 20% chance to be uninterrupted from conc = you can get hammers off.

it true the hammedin will get off a few hammers but not many.

Also with all the locks up invis hammers are possible and can actually hit and kill.

But the best way to get out of a mb trap is charge becasue most hammerdin are use to name lock tele once u get then mb and having trap unless u have charge binded or something it is a tight situation to get out of.


But any good dsyncing hammer can beat a trapper, i.e dsyncing + invis hammer field

[SicHalo]

pally's high fhr bp and 20% chance to be uninterrupted from conc = you can get hammers off.

it true the hammedin will get off a few hammers but not many.

Also with all the locks up invis hammers are possible and can actually hit and kill.

But the best way to get out of a mb trap is charge becasue most hammerdin are use to name lock tele once u get then mb and having trap unless u have charge binded or something it is a tight situation to get out of.


But any good dsyncing hammer can beat a trapper, i.e dsyncing + invis hammer field