High Level Uniques that never get Used

[anonymite]

This has ties to "Ideas for 1.12" thread, but since the forum name is "1.11 Bug Reports & Suggestions" I figure why confine half the forum's purpose to one thread.

Anyhow, I think the biggest fault I'd have in this game is the complete lack of balance in items. After Blizzard massively pumped Hell Resists/Physical Resist and HP in the 1.10 patch, previously usable uniques and sets are now just grail/garbage. It's kind of ridiculous to work so hard to have a TC 84 or even TC 87 unique pop out of pindle, only to find out wooowheee It's a Gut Siphon Demon Crossbow!!! About a fourth as effective as a TC 48 Buriza, and used by approximately zero people in all of diablodom. Why even bother programming in the stats? The mouse-over should have a grail code and the price you can get from Charsi written on it.

Blizzard did a great job with the Unique Helms. Shako, Andarial's, COA, VampGaze, Arreat's, Jalal's, Rare circlets, Guilliame's, Lore, etc. and more all pass for end-game equipment. There's a legitimate debate over which one is best and plenty of builds around each. That's because they all offer different things: CB, Resists, Skills, DR, Leech, and so on. There's no clear winner, and that's how it should be for other equipment.

So here's my Nominees, with some notes about how to maybe gussy them up if there's another patch later on.

Medusa's Gaze - With a 219 Stre requirement, this shield has no shot of being used anyway. But make it the only shield with Crushing Blow, say 10%, and some people might find a use for it.

Spirit Ward - TC 84 and only marginally better than the TC 30 Gothic Shield. +1 to skills here and this would give Lidless a run for its money, despite the 185 Str Requirement

Frostwind - The name of the sword is FROSTwind, and it has less cold damage than the Azurewrath. In fact sword is kind of like the Jan to the Azurewrath's Marcia. But avtivate a low level Holy Freeze Aura when you equip it? That's worth having.

Messershmidt's Reaver - This axe was teh pwnage in the original Diablo. Right now, though, there's not a single 2-handed axe worth anything in D2. The Fix? Make this the most damaging weapon in the game. Push that ED% to 400. At least make someone THINK about using it.

Gargoyle's Bite - The most worthless TC 87 in the game. And yet, there's potential. Imagine if instead of those Plague Javelin Charges, there was +5 to Plague Javelin, and maybe -25% to enemy Poison Resist. It could become a Plaguezon's must-have.

Steel Pillar - This is probably the second most worthless TC 87 in the game. Would it be too much to ask to push that -20% target Defense up to100% with this? And that Enhanced Damage to 300%? It's a pillar made of steel for crying out loud.

Gut Siphon Bottom Line: If it's a crossbow, and it's not a Buriza, it's not worth owning. This would have to do about 500 Poison damage per second to have anyone consider owning it. And even then, probably not.

Stormspire - The highest level Polearm is also by far the worst. Only 1-237 Lightning Damage, worthless CTC's and pitifully low ED compared to the other Unique polearms. What character that's capable of killing a monster high enough to drop this, could have any use for it? Holy shock Aura?, CTC Level 20 Thunderstorm?, Static Field?. Take your pick.

Others that I didn't feel commenting on: Ghostflame, Lacerator, Cranebeak, Ecevutioner's Justice, the Druid and Amazon Set weapons. The list goes on and on. And with just a little tewaking people might actually have to make choice for their weapons.

[Quietus]

Just wanted tostick my two cents in here - all very good suggestions, I'd love to see some of these uniques/sets become useful. For stormspire, maybe -light res and tstorm when equipped? It'd still be relatively useless, but at least it would be a fascinating item, worth building an off-the-wall character around.

As for 'others' you listed, you mentioned Lacerators - lacerators are very nice as they stand. That's the only thing that I disagree with out of all of these. For the druid set weapon, if you take it, make it a devil star instead of a jagged star, and put the ed% on the weapon instead of being a set bonus off-weapon, suddenly the set becomes useful for shifters, at the very least.

[bobofuzzlymunky]

and mershmidt's (w/e....) reaver is actually a solution for a poor mans charger... my smiter (1 pnt in charge) tossed it on one day cuz i was bored... and i had 4k charge with that thing (1 pt!!!!!!!!)

[Finraug]

I think all the 2 handed axe uniques need to have their damage upgraded significantly considering low speed and range.

[kingdryland]

I would like to see some sets upgraded. For example,griswold caddy is extremely rare,it would be marvelous if it would acquire a +50 mod just like astreons. Ik set deserves a more damaging maul while mavina is as peculiar as a set can be..

[Evrae Altana]

At least the other sets are somewhat useable by certain builds. Aldur's set just plain out blows. Turn that Aldur's weapon into a Devil Star instead of Jagged Star and it might have a use.

[FattyMcGee]

Steelshade
Armet

+100-130% Enhanced Defense (varies)
Replenish Life +10-18 (varies)
+4-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit (varies)
+5-11 Fire Absorb (varies)



I'd rather use tarnhelm or duskdeep... that is how much this elite unique sucks.



-f

[xtc]

Ive never found a death web before.. Thats a hard one to get.

[LonghornRob]

They need crappy uniques in the game to dilute the system, so to speak. It makes finding the really good uniques all the more worthwhile. I had this same argument with friends of mine a few years ago when I played Magic The Gathering.

[Archedgar]

Uh, the Lacerator is actually a really good unique, it works wonderfully on a smiter since it has the highest chance to cast Amplify Damage(on striking) of any item in the game.

I agree with most of the rest. Personally I think you missed a few, like the Djinni elite sword and the nosferatu's coil... hmmm.

[Evrae Altana]

and the nosferatu's coil... hmmm.Nosferatu's Coil is one of the most popular bowazon belts, so it has its uses.

[JDLail]

::Amen::
I absolutely agree with anonymite's premise. It is aggravating in the extreme
to get one of these totally useless items. Speaking of which I had Aldurs
bleeding plate pop up on me the other day. ::Sigh:: What a waste.

Note however that allowing set items to be upgraded solves or at least
ameliorate the set item problem in some cases.

[Fluffballer]

Ik set deserves a more damaging maul while mavina is as peculiar as a set can be..

Are you SERIOUS?! The IK maul is single most damaging non-cheating weapon in the game. Against undead, its damage is 1377-2598 with 35-40% crushing blow! THAT'S WITHOUT USING ANY SKILLS.

[Evrae Altana]

Are you SERIOUS?! The IK maul is single most damaging non-cheating weapon in the game. Against undead, its damage is 1377-2598 with 35-40% crushing blow! THAT'S WITHOUT USING ANY SKILLS.The +%damage to undead gets added on in conjunction with enhanced damage from skills, auras, strength, etc. It does not boost the base damage of the weapon.

[FattyMcGee]

The +%damage to undead gets added on in conjunction with enhanced damage from skills, auras, strength, etc. It does not boost the base damage of the weapon.

very true.


it's still a great weapon for many classes tho :). One of my favorite shifter druid weapons ever, and it's good for both conc barbs and ww barbs. I don't see how you could say this is one of the worst elite uniques/sets.



-f

[Evrae Altana]

I don't see how you could say this is one of the worst elite uniques/sets.That wasn't me :wink3:
My vote for the worst class-specific set still goes to Aldurs.

[Fluffballer]

The +%damage to undead gets added on in conjunction with enhanced damage from skills, auras, strength, etc. It does not boost the base damage of the weapon.

Eh, so take 200 points or whatever off the figure. It's still like 1750 damage average.

[Quietus]

Eh, so take 200 points or whatever off the figure. It's still like 1750 damage average.


Against undead : 423.5 - 583, for 503 average
against demons : 385 - 530, for 457 average.

[Fluffballer]

You missed the 211-397 Fire Damage, 7-477 Lightning Damage, 127-364 Cold Damage, 204 Poison Damage Over, and 250-361 Magic Damage (and a few hundred from the CB for kicks). To suggest the set needs a bigger damage weapon is clearly ludicrous.

[Quietus]

You missed the 211-397 Fire Damage, 7-477 Lightning Damage, 127-364 Cold Damage, 204 Poison Damage Over, and 250-361 Magic Damage (and a few hundred from the CB for kicks). To suggest the set needs a bigger damage weapon is clearly ludicrous.

I agree that the weapon's damage is quite fine. However, I don't include the elemental damage in my calculations simply because that, and the physical, are treated differently. The physical gets further multiplied by your strength, which skills you're using, etc., while the elemental damage gets slapped on top.

[DarkUfrades]

Medusa's Gaze - With a 219 Stre requirement, this shield has no shot of being used anyway. But make it the only shield with Crushing Blow, say 10%, and some people might find a use for it.

Stormspire - The highest level Polearm is also by far the worst. Only 1-237 Lightning Damage, worthless CTC's and pitifully low ED compared to the other Unique polearms. What character that's capable of killing a monster high enough to drop this, could have any use for it? Holy shock Aura?, CTC Level 20 Thunderstorm?, Static Field?. Take your pick.

I got both of these from Hell Baal, and I almost cried(not really) when I ID'd them hoping for something good(I never really associate unqs with their item types). I kept thinking in my head....

"To think I could have gotten unique items like Shako, SS, or Arachnid's, and I get stuck with this crap, sigh....."

Stormspire didn't even sell for the 35000 max gold I think....


By the way, is Head Hunter's Glory (3 sockets) worth anything or does it fall under items that should be listed here? I'm curious whether I should just sell it or not....

[Evrae Altana]

By the way, is Head Hunter's Glory (3 sockets) worth anything or does it fall under items that should be listed here? I'm curious whether I should just sell it or not....A 3 socketed one may be worth something to someone who's looking to buy one.

[Necrochild313]

I've seen Javazons 3 facet those things, so you might find someone who wants it.

[Finraug]

The elite unique 2 handed axes could all use a little improvement to make up for the wammie of being slow, short range, and no shield.

[remsy]

One of the greatest almost good items is the metalgrid amulet.
Imagine that badboy with even plus one to skills. Melee fighters would be like mara's? What mara's?

And the most laughable elite?
Earthshifter...
Which druid that relies on elemental skills will boost his str to 253 just to wield this beast?

All this one needs is a -50% requirements and 50 ias and fireclaw wolves will be all over this thing almost...

[nickedoff]

Gargoyle's Bite - The most worthless TC 87 in the game. And yet, there's potential. Imagine if instead of those Plague Javelin Charges, there was +5 to Plague Javelin, and maybe -25% to enemy Poison Resist. It could become a Plaguezon's must-have.
I love gargs bite o.o!!
And even if they did add all those mods, Titans would still beat it -_-

Mang Song's is a unique that barely anyone uses (or realises is there) . It's an awesome staff, neglected because it's so rare...

[Vang]

Nice thread. As you pointed out some uniques are truely worthless, so lets add an ability or two here to make it better. The problem is simply this, then all are relatively the same, take for instance the Unique Scepters, on their website the bottom states "The damages on these Scepters are correct despite the damage similarities or strangeness." Meaning basically, what more can we do with a scepter in general. Yes, one could add an aura of X spell or give +Elemental -X enemy resistance to spice it up, but who cares? You'll find one and use it either way.
Herein Lies the Key: Runewords, simply put, are way overpowered. Why would use use something less useful if the the stuff is readily available(Of course by means of dupers,hackers,whatever you call them) I'm not saying all are overpowered, but in somecases(Axes as the main example and the purpose of my reply) overshadow the relative good mods of uniques.

Axes have been the redheaded stepchild of Diablo. In Diablo1 Mess.Reaver was not a good axe. It was good in normal and possibly NM if you were around level 35 with max stats and the rest of your gear near-perfect. Otherwise, you were stun locked and beatdown fast. Axes in general in Diablo1 suffered the the inability to successfully stun lock with speed, you could sometimes with getting damage, but your in ability to block and lack of leech(unless of course you had Helm of Spirits) you still went down fast due to the slow pace of movement. Axes in D2 of course got some improvements, but in Classic lost their edge over Maces/Polearms/Spears due to the nature WW at the time and the range/damage/>=speed. Axes barbs were few in far between. Jump forward a year during the 6months after LOD.

Axes got a boost, with Elite uniques and exceptional(Butcher's Pupil great one) But the two-handers besides the Mess.Reaver and Hellslayer(which really has nice damage but two slow for anyclass other than a charger really) I loved Mess.Reaver on My Werewolf with a 15%ias26%ed jewel, I was fast and furious, but paled in comparison with CraniumBasher on, even with its slow speed, he one or two hitted everything in came in contact with. Put down D2 at end of July03. Late 2003(or 04' blur during those times was hooked on SWG until CU) insert 1.10 patch, holycow runewords, uniques anew. Look at a lot of them, axes specific. Axes got a big boost, but largely in the 1hander department. Another blow. Sure you can use an Axe, but why, when you can use a thundermaul instead? The final nail for twohanded axes.

The whole premise of We need bad uniques example given by the MTG player is invalid, as MTG is a game were limited play is pretty balanced and the good and bad make valid decks, but place in a Constructed tournament and you only see the good from sets, not bad. Bad cards are made for constructed play only(or the occasional combo deck that uses some of them)

To sum up: Redo some uniques? More like redo the base work of items in question, as much useless ones are weapons compared to the useful other ones. Why does an Aegis have 219 str to begin with? Why is a Champion Axe damage this low with the same speed as a Giant Thresher? Simple things like that, I'm not saying make everything the same, I hate WOW because of that. But balance it, at least somewhat.

[Vang]

Nice thread. As you pointed out some uniques are truely worthless, so lets add an ability or two here to make it better. The problem is simply this, then all are relatively the same, take for instance the Unique Scepters, on their website the bottom states "The damages on these Scepters are correct despite the damage similarities or strangeness." Meaning basically, what more can we do with a scepter in general. Yes, one could add an aura of X spell or give +Elemental -X enemy resistance to spice it up, but who cares? You'll find one and use it either way.
Herein Lies the Key: Runewords, simply put, are way overpowered. Why would use use something less useful if the the stuff is readily available(Of course by means of dupers,hackers,whatever you call them) I'm not saying all are overpowered, but in somecases(Axes as the main example and the purpose of my reply) overshadow the relative good mods of uniques.

Axes have been the redheaded stepchild of Diablo. In Diablo1 Mess.Reaver was not a good axe. It was good in normal and possibly NM if you were around level 35 with max stats and the rest of your gear near-perfect. Otherwise, you were stun locked and beatdown fast. Axes in general in Diablo1 suffered the the inability to successfully stun lock with speed, you could sometimes with getting damage, but your in ability to block and lack of leech(unless of course you had Helm of Spirits) you still went down fast due to the slow pace of movement. Axes in D2 of course got some improvements, but in Classic lost their edge over Maces/Polearms/Spears due to the nature WW at the time and the range/damage/>=speed. Axes barbs were few in far between. Jump forward a year during the 6months after LOD.

Axes got a boost, with Elite uniques and exceptional(Butcher's Pupil great one) But the two-handers besides the Mess.Reaver and Hellslayer(which really has nice damage but two slow for anyclass other than a charger really) I loved Mess.Reaver on My Werewolf with a 15%ias26%ed jewel, I was fast and furious, but paled in comparison with CraniumBasher on, even with its slow speed, he one or two hitted everything in came in contact with. Put down D2 at end of July03. Late 2003(or 04' blur during those times was hooked on SWG until CU) insert 1.10 patch, holycow runewords, uniques anew. Look at a lot of them, axes specific. Axes got a big boost, but largely in the 1hander department. Another blow. Sure you can use an Axe, but why, when you can use a thundermaul instead? The final nail for twohanded axes.

The whole premise of We need bad uniques example given by the MTG player is invalid, as MTG is a game were limited play is pretty balanced and the good and bad make valid decks, but place in a Constructed tournament and you only see the good from sets, not bad. Bad cards are made for constructed play only(or the occasional combo deck that uses some of them)

To sum up: Redo some uniques? More like redo the base work of items in question, as much useless ones are weapons compared to the useful other ones. Why does an Aegis have 219 str to begin with? Why is a Champion Axe damage this low with the same speed as a Giant Thresher? Simple things like that, I'm not saying make everything the same, I hate WOW because of that. But balance it, at least somewhat.

[Vang]

Nice thread. As you pointed out some uniques are truely worthless, so lets add an ability or two here to make it better. The problem is simply this, then all are relatively the same, take for instance the Unique Scepters, on their website the bottom states "The damages on these Scepters are correct despite the damage similarities or strangeness." Meaning basically, what more can we do with a scepter in general. Yes, one could add an aura of X spell or give +Elemental -X enemy resistance to spice it up, but who cares? You'll find one and use it either way.
Herein Lies the Key: Runewords, simply put, are way overpowered. Why would use use something less useful if the the stuff is readily available(Of course by means of dupers,hackers,whatever you call them) I'm not saying all are overpowered, but in somecases(Axes as the main example and the purpose of my reply) overshadow the relative good mods of uniques.

Axes have been the redheaded stepchild of Diablo. In Diablo1 Mess.Reaver was not a good axe. It was good in normal and possibly NM if you were around level 35 with max stats and the rest of your gear near-perfect. Otherwise, you were stun locked and beatdown fast. Axes in general in Diablo1 suffered the the inability to successfully stun lock with speed, you could sometimes with getting damage, but your in ability to block and lack of leech(unless of course you had Helm of Spirits) you still went down fast due to the slow pace of movement. Axes in D2 of course got some improvements, but in Classic lost their edge over Maces/Polearms/Spears due to the nature WW at the time and the range/damage/>=speed. Axes barbs were few in far between. Jump forward a year during the 6months after LOD.

Axes got a boost, with Elite uniques and exceptional(Butcher's Pupil great one) But the two-handers besides the Mess.Reaver and Hellslayer(which really has nice damage but two slow for anyclass other than a charger really) I loved Mess.Reaver on My Werewolf with a 15%ias26%ed jewel, I was fast and furious, but paled in comparison with CraniumBasher on, even with its slow speed, he one or two hitted everything in came in contact with. Put down D2 at end of July03. Late 2003(or 04' blur during those times was hooked on SWG until CU) insert 1.10 patch, holycow runewords, uniques anew. Look at a lot of them, axes specific. Axes got a big boost, but largely in the 1hander department. Another blow. Sure you can use an Axe, but why, when you can use a thundermaul instead? The final nail for twohanded axes.

The whole premise of We need bad uniques example given by the MTG player is invalid, as MTG is a game were limited play is pretty balanced and the good and bad make valid decks, but place in a Constructed tournament and you only see the good from sets, not bad. Bad cards are made for limited play only(or the occasional combo deck that uses some of them)

To sum up: Redo some uniques? More like redo the base work of items in question, as much useless ones are weapons compared to the useless armor class ones. Why does an Aegis have 219 str to begin with? Why is a Champion Axe damage this low with the same speed as a Giant Thresher? Simple things like that, I'm not saying make everything the same, I hate WOW because of that. But balance it, at least somewhat.

[Finraug]

I agree, I think there should be more of a relation between weapon speed and damage. In all honesty, 2 handed axes and mauls and such should do about double the damage of 1 handed weapons and be similarly slower. If you have an axe, like my eth hellslayer, that does enough damage to kill quickly, then the weapon speed isn't that much of a concern. However, most 2 handed axes and mauls don't do enough damage to meet that, even as eths.

Also, make the weapon damage comparisons realistic. A spear/sword/polearm is not going to be in the same neighborhood as a two handed axe or maul. They will be quicker and have longer reach and such, but by their very nature will not hurt as much. A two handed sword would be close, but still based on its mass and weight would not be as high as the other two, but would be much quicker and have a longer range.

Another pet pieve has to do with Rune words. Look at the description for uniques. It says the are LEGENDARY weapons that have basically taken on a life of their own when talked about. So, shouldn't uniques be better by their very nature then anything you can make with a RW??

[songmage]

They are not useless. You just don't like them because you can't kill hordes of them in a single swipe. They DO kill in hell difficulty, you just need to not have anything better than them to find that out.

I had a level 18 character that could defeat act 1 hell difficulty (gliche rushed). He had equipment only available to a level 18 character which means the main weapon couldn't have done more than just over a hundred damage and his total defense couldn't have been over a few hundred. I don't even want to talk about resists.

Useless weapons, no. Not godly weapons and armors, yes.

[songmage]

They are not useless. You just don't like them because you can't kill hordes of them in a single swipe. They DO kill in hell difficulty, you just need to not have anything better than them to find that out.

I had a level 18 character that could defeat act 1 hell difficulty (gliche rushed). He had equipment only available to a level 18 character which means the main weapon couldn't have done more than just over a hundred damage and his total defense couldn't have been over a few hundred. I don't even want to talk about resists.

Useless weapons, no. Not godly weapons and armors, yes.

[songmage]

They are not useless. You just don't like them because you can't kill hordes of them in a single swipe. They DO kill in hell difficulty, you just need to not have anything better than them to find that out.

I had a level 18 character that could defeat act 1 hell difficulty (gliche rushed). He had equipment only available to a level 18 character which means the main weapon couldn't have done more than just over a hundred damage and his total defense couldn't have been over a few hundred. I don't even want to talk about resists.

Useless weapons, no. Not godly weapons and armors, yes.

[songmage]

They are not useless. You just don't like them because you can't kill hordes of them in a single swipe. They DO kill in hell difficulty, you just need to not have anything better than them to find that out.

I had a level 18 character that could defeat act 1 hell difficulty (gliche rushed). He had equipment only available to a level 18 character which means the main weapon couldn't have done more than just over a hundred damage and his total defense couldn't have been over a few hundred. I don't even want to talk about resists.

Useless weapons, no. Not godly weapons and armors, yes.