View Full Version : BvC Questions
Long time lurker, first time poster, so hey all.
Anyway I know there have been about 1001 of these, but I couldn't find a specific answer to my question, so here goes;
First, how feasible is this build without having accounts full of godly mules? Having looked at a few of the guides (dumbpig's, etc) they're fairly cookie-cutter in equipment (most of which I can obtain), but two things stand out-
Grief Zerker- On USEast NL, these things cost an ungodly amount, so unless I run accross a very generous trader that leaves me out. Are there viable alternatives to this when used with Beast?
Godly charms- I simply don't have the resources for an inventory full of 3/20/20's or the like. (probably be limited to a torch and whatever life charms I can scrape together) How much would this handicap a BvC?
As a side note, I've noticed alotof guides incorporate faster cast gear (arach's, rings, etc). Exactly how much do I need, and couldn't I just have dual wizard spikes on switch (leap left click, tele on right) to move around, then switch to axes (leap again on left, ww on right?) Is my thinking really flawed here?
Heck of a first post, but thanks for any input.
mainaman
08-02-2006, 02:33
instead of grief you can use ebotd zerk, its not as good as grief but its ok.
you need 40 fcr = arachnid(20) + 2x 10 fcr rings ,on switch you need to have 2 doom zerkers so dont use wizspikes
charms - you can use just ar/life or plain 20 life sc, but if you can get 3/20/20 definetely its the best to use...
For the Grief Zerker - In all cases you should try to get one, ANY one. As long as it has 34% IAS, it's better than any EBotDZ. However, if you can't afford/get one, then the best replacement would be an EBotDZ.
Charms are very important to a BvC. If you can't get a inven full of 32020s, then the next best thing would be to get max/ar/life GCs. If you can't afford that, then try to get 20 life/2nd mod SCs. If all else fails, just gather whatever life SCs you can find and use them.
FCR is somewhat important. The easiest breakpoint to reach would be the 37% one, which means you can use an Arachnid mesh + 2x FCR rings. Having a Wizspike/whatever on switch is a bad idea. Not only do you lose your BO weapons, trying to tele -> switch -> WW or some other variation of that is really, really slow. You'll probably never kill someone doing that.
-An ebotdz is a decent alternative for a primary weapon+Beast if you can't come by a Grief zerk
-If you can't obtain a large amount of max/ar/life scs then plain 20 life scs can work, provided you're not as interested in dueling high defense melee chars with your bvc in addition to casters
-the 37% fcr breakpoint is a decent one to shoot for via arach+2x fcr rings, and is usually enough for a leaping bvc to catch anything; I would advise against having a fcr switch, you will never switch back to your primary weps in time to land a hit vs any decent opponent, this is the beauty of a barb having the same fcr bps as a sorc, you can be quick enough on the cast from your gloves/rings/belt/whatever and still wield destructive weapons all the time
Charms are very important to a BvC. If you can't get a inven full of 32020s, then the next best thing would be to get max/ar/life GCs. If you can't afford that, then try to get 20 life/2nd mod SCs. If all else fails, just gather whatever life SCs you can find and use them.
Just curious why Large Charms aren't mentioned. I might be wrong but when I looked at the prefixes and suffixes they were;
GC: 7-10dmg/49-76ar/36-50life (Can fit 1 + 1SC) = 13dmg/96ar/70life
LG: 4-6dmg/21-48/26-35life (Can fit 2) = 12dmg/96ar/70life
SC: 1-3dmg/10-20ar/16-20life (Can fit 4) = 12dmg/80ar/80life
Am I wrong with the prefix/suffixe?
You're just slightly off, grand charms can't spawn with more than 45 life, making large charms look even better in the process
mainaman
08-02-2006, 03:01
Just curious why Large Charms aren't mentioned. I might be wrong but when I looked at the prefixes and suffixes they were;
GC: 7-10dmg/49-76ar/36-50life (Can fit 1 + 1SC) = 13dmg/96ar/70life
LG: 4-6dmg/21-48/26-35life (Can fit 2) = 12dmg/96ar/70life
SC: 1-3dmg/10-20ar/16-20life (Can fit 4) = 12dmg/80ar/80life
Am I wrong with the prefix/suffixe?
prolly they are not too easy to come by?
anyway lc/20 life sc sc sounds like a good idea, if one cant get 3/20/20
IRT All: Thanks for the advice. I had planned on getting as many life sc's/whatever as possible, but this will be a slow process of just keeping/buying whatever I come across, since I don't the the dispossible wealth to just go out and get a bunch.
As far as the weapons, response seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of Ebotz; is this definitely superior to say, a Doom in terms of mods, not just damage? I realize the could doesn't affect wasting (vs. sorcs for instance), but this was my first thought. On switch would my best bet be just WC spears ? I can't realisticly expect to get dual Doomz in addition to my main weapons.
mainaman
08-02-2006, 06:20
IRT All: Thanks for the advice. I had planned on getting as many life sc's/whatever as possible, but this will be a slow process of just keeping/buying whatever I come across, since I don't the the dispossible wealth to just go out and get a bunch.
As far as the weapons, response seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of Ebotz; is this definitely superior to say, a Doom in terms of mods, not just damage? I realize the could doesn't affect wasting (vs. sorcs for instance), but this was my first thought. On switch would my best bet be just WC spears ? I can't realisticly expect to get dual Doomz in addition to my main weapons.
use ebotz not doom
on switch you need 2 doom axes-against smiters, zons, assasins and the holy freeze aura kills oak instantly,and summons pretty fast.
mainaman
08-02-2006, 06:27
sorry for double post
Actually just 1 doom in stash is fine(doom+mainwep> doom+doom), but id work on getting that grief first. Later when you can afford it, get the dooms on switch, but for now, wc spears will work fine.
RetroStar
08-02-2006, 22:14
sorry for double post
That's incorrect to state that you need to have it. I only have one doom in stash and I rarely use it. I've tried 2x doom on switch before and it was useful, not a necessity.
My new barb uses hoto/cta now since dooms just make the duels end faster.
RetroStar
08-02-2006, 22:14
sorry for double post
That's incorrect to state that you need to have it. I only have one doom in stash and I rarely use it. I've tried 2x doom on switch before and it was useful, not a necessity.
My new barb uses hoto/cta now since dooms just make the duels end faster.
RetroStar
08-02-2006, 22:15
use ebotz not doom
on switch you need 2 doom axes-against smiters, zons, assasins and the holy freeze aura kills oak instantly,and summons pretty fast.
sorry for double post
That's incorrect to state that you need to have it. I only have one doom in stash and I rarely use it. I've tried 2x doom on switch before and it was useful, not a necessity.
My new barb uses hoto/cta now since dooms just make the duels end faster.
RetroStar
08-02-2006, 22:16
use ebotz not doom
on switch you need 2 doom axes-against smiters, zons, assasins and the holy freeze aura kills oak instantly,and summons pretty fast.
That's incorrect to state that you need to have it. I only have one doom in stash and I rarely use it. I've tried 2x doom on switch before and it was useful, not a necessity.
My new barb uses hoto/cta now since dooms just make the duels end faster.
FattyMcGee
10-02-2006, 14:13
prolly they are not too easy to come by?
= they're not duped all to hell.
-f
morotsjos
10-02-2006, 15:09
use ebotz not doom
on switch you need 2 doom axes-against smiters, zons, assasins and the holy freeze aura kills oak instantly,and summons pretty fast.
no. have you even tried it? it's worthless vs summons and assasins (unless they run lol) and overrated vs smiters. nice vs some zons i give you that.
you dont "need" it though, barbs did well before they started using dooms as bo weapons too...
You should aim for at least 60-70 all resistances in hell. Also, for charms, if you can get scs with more than total 40 life (meaning that 14 is the lowest), then get those, but if you cannot, then get gcs with 40 life, and scs with any life you can. As for gear, a good setup is:
Enigma dusk/mp/wyrm/archon
Botd ba/Grief ba+ Beast ba (over 35 str)
Arreat's (pruby or shael or ed/ias ***)
Arachnid
Draculs 15 str
goreriders
highlord's amulet
2x 240/18-20 ar/dex ravenfrosts, 2x fcr rings with >60 mana
2x +3 wc winged daggers on switch, preferred one with "of Lifetap" mod, but not necessary.
This setup is almost what is on my BvC, my bvc has:
Enigma Wyrm
Grief ba 34/341+beast ba 246/38
arreat's 'shael'
arachnid
draculs 15 str
goreriders
highlord's
240/20 ar/dex raven, 247/18 raven
2x +3 wc winged daggers on switch.
Also, you might want to consider putting some points into str and dex, just in case you will want to use duress/forti and widowmaker. The minimum amounts of str/dex for these is 3 points into str, 27 dex. total loss 30 stats, meaning 120 bo-able life. But this is with perf anni, perf torch, 15 str draculs, 30 str belt, arreats and agelics.
Doom is actually pretty useful against trappers, not really neccessary, but definitely helpful. It slows their trap laying speed by quite a bit, making them do damage slower over the length of the duel, and increasing the chance you will catch them in the trap laying animation with a ww. Doom is nearly as useful as beast in the average pub game, simply because they have lots of zons/trappers/pallies. Yes, your grief-hand damage will suffer, but grief is already stupidly godly, so its not a huge deal against the average pub game.
mastermind
11-02-2006, 17:18
As ppl mentioned getting the grief is top priority as it does make quite a difference over BOTD in the duel.
Charms wise u need to aim for life charms, preferably with a secondary mod like ar or possibly res. Or a few charms with Ar and max dmg if u cant afford maxdmg/ar/life scs or grand
Dooms wise u only need 1 i think i used to have 2 but i never really used 2 (A few Windys i thought i had 2x Doom on switch and it does kill summoned creature like wolves and oak fast, but then it is also good to use the wolves, bear as a leechable source of life and mana)
But against smiters i dont even bother with the doom, only against some trappers and CSzons and Bowamas i use 1.
morotsjos
12-02-2006, 01:36
Doom is actually pretty useful against trappers, not really neccessary, but definitely helpful. It slows their trap laying speed by quite a bit, making them do damage slower over the length of the duel, and increasing the chance you will catch them in the trap laying animation with a ww. Doom is nearly as useful as beast in the average pub game, simply because they have lots of zons/trappers/pallies. Yes, your grief-hand damage will suffer, but grief is already stupidly godly, so its not a huge deal against the average pub game.
that assumes you use doom as off-weapon all the time and stays on the trappers screen all the time. still crap dmg ^^
thing is, 95% of zons/trappers in pubs die in 3 seconds of whirling. you really need the extra damage vs sorcs/necs/druids/pallies imo, but then again west's pubs might differ...
DAMAGE IS KING!!! ^^
Damage is not king unless it outweighs the pvp penalty and DR, which it hardly ever does. The damage added from beast's fanat is not so much that it is Neccesary to kill just about any class. Doom on the other hand, makes things much easier against some common dueling classes(zons, pallies, sins). Again, beast is better for 1v1, but in a pub, doom can close the gap or surpass it Depending on who you are dueling(3 zons for example). I'm not saying build to just use doom, im just saying, don't be afraid to use doom against everyone in a pub game, since there are very few who you will actually need the extra damage for, but there are lots that can be crippled by doom.
blobswannabe
12-02-2006, 22:14
Damage is not king unless it outweighs the pvp penalty and DR, which it hardly ever does. The damage added from beast's fanat is not so much that it is Neccesary to kill just about any class. Doom on the other hand, makes things much easier against some common dueling classes(zons, pallies, sins). Again, beast is better for 1v1, but in a pub, doom can close the gap or surpass it Depending on who you are dueling(3 zons for example). I'm not saying build to just use doom, im just saying, don't be afraid to use doom against everyone in a pub game, since there are very few who you will actually need the extra damage for, but there are lots that can be crippled by doom.
try wwing through another ww barb with doom on. Now there's the reason why i don't use it much. Not to mention my barb can't even use dr with doom on. I"m not sure what made you think it was better to use doom and no dr.
try wwing through another ww barb with doom on. Now there's the reason why i don't use it much. Not to mention my barb can't even use dr with doom on. I"m not sure what made you think it was better to use doom and no dr.
Jesus chris. Always so eager to assume the absolute Worst about me haha.
Quote from myself "The damage added from beast's fanat is not so much that it is Neccesary to kill just about any class."
I almost specified that it would be useless to use doom against another barb, but I figured people would be smart enough to figure that out. I was wrong :/
Your barb Can use dr with doom, but you need tgods to make up str. Yes, you end up with some absorb that trappers will cry about, but since when do you care about trappers crying.
morotsjos
13-02-2006, 11:14
Damage is not king unless it outweighs the pvp penalty and DR, which it hardly ever does. The damage added from beast's fanat is not so much that it is Neccesary to kill just about any class. Doom on the other hand, makes things much easier against some common dueling classes(zons, pallies, sins). Again, beast is better for 1v1, but in a pub, doom can close the gap or surpass it Depending on who you are dueling(3 zons for example). I'm not saying build to just use doom, im just saying, don't be afraid to use doom against everyone in a pub game, since there are very few who you will actually need the extra damage for, but there are lots that can be crippled by doom.
yes, but how often do you duel 3 zons on the same screen compared to a combo of druids/hammers/sorcs/necs where doom is useless?
i still prefer beast vs smiters too since they die faster and doom is pretty useless against competent ones.
the only class doom makes a difference against is cs zons, and i'd never sacrifice killing power vs everything else by default just to kill a potential zon.
morotsjos
13-02-2006, 11:17
try wwing through another ww barb with doom on. Now there's the reason why i don't use it much. Not to mention my barb can't even use dr with doom on. I"m not sure what made you think it was better to use doom and no dr.
what's the problem except low damage? you both still hit at 4 fpa. with my old base str crapbarb i died frequently to botd+doom barbs even though i had much better gear. defense and luck plays a bigger role than anything else.
blobswannabe
13-02-2006, 21:47
what's the problem except low damage? you both still hit at 4 fpa. with my old base str crapbarb i died frequently to botd+doom barbs even though i had much better gear. defense and luck plays a bigger role than anything else.
yes but it slows down your ww speed by a lot which means u'll hit each other 2-3 times more. which leads to double kills. That's the reason why most bvb barbs don't have increased speed. They wanna shorten those long *** bvb duels by getting more hits per ww.
Also the reason why ww barbs killed just about everything in ww was cuz in 09 ww speed was based on walk speed instead of run speed like in 1.10. Which means every ww hit about 21042108410 times.
blobswannabe
13-02-2006, 21:50
MCM and I use trang gloves, raven frosts, and spider web for vs all. since you need the ar against all the pallies and barbs that seem to fill every pub. The rfrosts can keep you from dying in 2 hits to blizz sorcs and allow you to telezerk/frenzy without being chilled. Not to mention the +25% poison skill damage from trang's applies twice to venom.
morotsjos
14-02-2006, 00:29
yes but it slows down your ww speed by a lot which means u'll hit each other 2-3 times more. which leads to double kills. That's the reason why most bvb barbs don't have increased speed. They wanna shorten those long *** bvb duels by getting more hits per ww.
Also the reason why ww barbs killed just about everything in ww was cuz in 09 ww speed was based on walk speed instead of run speed like in 1.10. Which means every ww hit about 21042108410 times.
ah right.
isn't wwspeed=walk speed in 1.1x? it's nowhere as fast as runspeed, is that clientside only?
blobswannabe
15-02-2006, 21:00
ah right.
isn't wwspeed=walk speed in 1.1x? it's nowhere as fast as runspeed, is that clientside only?
it's client side only which is why it desynches like insane. WHen i had my block barb i'd just kill zons with 1 nl from 120948012840912814 screens away. Long ww locks desynch like crazy since the longer you ww the more you desynch and the result can be pretty ridiculus. You can also use long wws vs pallies or casters to your advantage.
it's client side only which is why it desynches like insane. WHen i had my block barb i'd just kill zons with 1 nl from 120948012840912814 screens away. Long ww locks desynch like crazy since the longer you ww the more you desynch and the result can be pretty ridiculus. You can also use long wws vs pallies or casters to your advantage.
I can desynch the WW's sometimes, but not all the time. Is there some trick or something? I just click at the edges of my screen continuously, sometimes in random directions.. dunno
blobswannabe
16-02-2006, 20:27
I can desynch the WW's sometimes, but not all the time. Is there some trick or something? I just click at the edges of my screen continuously, sometimes in random directions.. dunno
like i said ww appears to be at walk speed on screen but it actually travels and run speed. So the longer you ww the more you desynch.
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