View Full Version : am i so outdated that i still think duping is bad?
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=4129663#post4129663
its a rather stupid conversation at that too, but still... since when did duping become ok on this forum?
It's a matter of relevance and personal perspective. I offer the debate:
Which is worse, Off topic threads or threads containing posts from members who openly admit they break the TOA? I think we should have 3 mods raid the druid forum...may as well do them all at once instead of picking which rules we're going to enforce.
thanks for backing me up. doubt it will work though... i get the feeling that parts of this forum are becoming increasingly narrowminded. rauth is most likely still pissed cause we talked him down in that PvP thread for HC duelling.
Valar-Wrath
05-02-2006, 04:54
I skimmed through it a bit and if I read it correctly, you think people that use assumed dupe items are pathetic? Not taking that out of context just trying to remember what I read.
I don't find anything wrong with using an item that could(and most likely is) duped as long as you traded for it legitly with items you found or traded for.
I believe Ankeli made a thread a while ago about this. How he found a rune(?) and wanted to trade for an enigma(or some most likely duped item) and some people thought he shouldn't because it was duped and some thought he should because he legitly found the rune.
I was the latter.
LuckyDwarf
05-02-2006, 05:06
Softcore players are just silly. As Barry said, they're very narrow-minded. I vote we tie them up and put 'em on the menu.
Lucky
Hp_Sauce
05-02-2006, 05:12
Well since this was brought up, I have to say this.
I couldn't help but notice a few days ago, that a few forum go-ers (and banana's), seemed to have some inside information about a server that was going to pop the dclone at a specific time.
Anyway, I assume someone was planning a mass SOJ sale on that server, since it was up 5 soj. Sure enough, at the specific time, the server jumped about 90 soj's in about 5 minutes.
So I think to myself. Who possibly has THAT many soj's to sell?!? The only answer I can come up with is of course botters, and/or dupers.
Seems like duping is just like any other crime on the planet. Everyone 'hates' it, untill its convenient for them, and then they sort of... forget they hated it.
Except for the few really decent people in the world of course. Who are left to sit alone in their rooms listening to "Nice Guys Finish Last, by Green Day", and wondering why the world is such a ****ed up place.
My 2 cents
-hps
MoUsE_WiZ
05-02-2006, 05:38
So I think to myself. Who possibly has THAT many soj's to sell?!? The only answer I can come up with is of course botters, and/or dupers.
Or, as is more frequently the case, 10 people with 9 sojs each (or whatever other numbers).
with respect to the soj thing. There are forums you can find this info out. When i used to hunt dclone i looked on a forum where they announced stuff like that.
PhatTrumpet
05-02-2006, 08:42
That's not the point at all. Regardless of where and how you get your information, you are indirectly benefitting from someone else's duping of SOJs every time you get an anni. How can you argue against the trading for and use of probable dupes and then turn around and camp server X for three hours because you heard that it's supposed to pop later that night?
Of course duping is bad, but you either have to accept the fact that it's a part of realm play or essentially seclude yourself from the trading community and deny yourself of annis.
rauth is most likely still pissed cause we talked him down in that PvP thread for HC duelling.
Where was that? I looked, because I dont remember it... I'm sure I will if someone can toss me a link or something... Thanks.
Oh, added my $.02 over in the duping fiasco.
-Matt
Softcore players are just silly. As Barry said, they're very narrow-minded. I vote we tie them up and put 'em on the menu.
Lucky
lol,
this reminds me of some kind of monkey in the states
how about, who cares, no point in worrying about it you cant stop it, dupe up a storm i could careless.
Where was that? I looked, because I dont remember it... I'm sure I will if someone can toss me a link or something... Thanks.
Oh, added my $.02 over in the duping fiasco.
-Matt
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=418018
Cleglaw_Himself
05-02-2006, 14:36
That's not the point at all. Regardless of where and how you get your information, you are indirectly benefitting from someone else's duping of SOJs every time you get an anni. How can you argue against the trading for and use of probable dupes and then turn around and camp server X for three hours because you heard that it's supposed to pop later that night?
But PT, Blizzard was the one who made the event where soj's were to be sold, so they are technically allowing dupers (and also others who camp servers) to benefit.
But, there can't be many more soj's left surely??!
Anyway, let me put a question to everyone :
If you found a way to dupe that no one else found, what would you do?
(a) Become the richest D2 player ever from your ber rune sales and laugh at the poor sorry nooblars trying to scratch a few pgems for some IK gear?
(b) Break your D2 CD's and swear never to play again as you suddenly feel very unclean.
(c) Stop playing for the reason in (b), but without breaking CD's.
(d) Tell Blizz about the loophole and ask them to patch it immediately.
(e) Tell everyone you meet that you can dupe their itamz and turn them into iron golems instead once they drop them.
(f) Tell a few 'trusted' people how to do it and set up a website to sell your wares with full 24/7 customer support.
(g) Just pretend that you don't know how to dupe.
(h) Other...
lol, pointless discussion, neither sides will win..ever..
That's not the point at all. Regardless of where and how you get your information, you are indirectly benefitting from someone else's duping of SOJs every time you get an anni. How can you argue against the trading for and use of probable dupes and then turn around and camp server X for three hours because you heard that it's supposed to pop later that night?
Of course duping is bad, but you either have to accept the fact that it's a part of realm play or essentially seclude yourself from the trading community and deny yourself of annis.
I'm gonna have to agree with Cleg. Deny myself an item Blizzard implemented in the game, because the way Blizzard intended the item to become available is selling of potential dupes? I dunno, i hear what you're saying about "indirectly benefiting" but that's a bit of a stretch to make an arguement hypocritical.
Heres what I see you saying:
"Taking money from a Burglar who robbed a bank is like taking a dupe and is therefore bad." (Agreed)
"The Bank you have stocks in was just robbed and as a result the government decides to help them out and the stocks go up. You've indirectly benefited from the bank robbery so you should therefore sell your stocks before they go any higher." (Disagree)
I mean I see your point, I do, but it's just too much of a stretch for me to change my arguement
eh.. I'll admit i was one of those few people who camped the servers the past few days and reaped the anni's. I won't reveal who i got this info from, because I dont think they would want you to know. I don't like duping. I don't like the fact that I can't leave a game with hr's I've traded for on my character without perming. I dont like the fact that I magickfind for hours and hours and find literally nothing, while some kid trades for a ber rune and sits in a game for hours duping the hell out of it. I will though, take benefits of duping. If a friend of mine dupes, and wants to give me some of his duped runes, I would gladly take them. I would be a little hesitant about trading, because maybe someone doesn't know about perming and is very upset when they poof (like i first was when I got my very first hr)
I would probably make my own runewords, or give them away in a free game.
all of you have to see it though, Duping is never going to stop. There are people that play thsi game that are 10x smarter then the people at blizz are. DUping will never be stopped, not in any online game. There will always be cheaters, there will always be people there to piss you off, there will always be someone who laughs at your gear because there duped gear is godlier then your's.
Anyways, barry I completely agree with you, duping is bad. DUping is very very bad. I'm not going to protest it though, because I know it won't stop. There is literally nothing we can do about it besides quit this game.
I love it, I'm thinking of becoming a Pal just so that I can make this my sig...
Cheers
-Tai
"As for playing on open, it is too easy to cheat on open. It is much harder to cheat on closed, so we play on closed." -Druid forum's Rauth defending his duping on the realms.
MoUsE_WiZ
06-02-2006, 00:33
I'm gonna have to agree with Cleg. Deny myself an item Blizzard implemented in the game, because the way Blizzard intended the item to become available is selling of potential dupes? I dunno, i hear what you're saying about "indirectly benefiting" but that's a bit of a stretch to make an arguement hypocritical.
Heres what I see you saying:
"Taking money from a Burglar who robbed a bank is like taking a dupe and is therefore bad." (Agreed)
"The Bank you have stocks in was just robbed and as a result the government decides to help them out and the stocks go up. You've indirectly benefited from the bank robbery so you should therefore sell your stocks before they go any higher." (Disagree)
I mean I see your point, I do, but it's just too much of a stretch for me to change my arguement
What he said. Mostly. Just take out the random bank analogy, insert analogy about how I don't consider everyone who's ever played a public baal game to be unable to argue against MH, but the point is still the same.
To answer someone's question, I'd rather not be able to buy an item than be able to buy it if it's duped. It makes the game feel pointless to me (it IS pointless, but that's another question! ;-). It's fun to get things you want, but if they are too easily available, it takes away the challenge and excitement.
To answer the Cleglaw's survey question, I would do (d), honestly. (And, I've done it before in games where I've come across game-distorting bugs, even when I was apparently the only one who know of them).
The dclone popping thing is an interesting question. I see the it differently from trading for a duped item (and I hadn't even thought much about how it *might* be related to duping). HOW it spawns isn't that critical to me...and I still have to kill dclone (not to mention find the server). Perhaps it's like HP_Sauce says...you're against it until if benefits you. But, it is more complex than that or I'd take advantage of dupes...and I feel strongly about not doing that (at least in terms I consider normal). I'd be willing to bet 90% of the participants here would do pretty much the same...reject a probably dupe, even if they really want it, but do dclone without guilt ;-).
Savvi
I have no problems hunting DClone, because Blizz built the system in to rid the realms of duped SOJs, it was a tool to clear the realm of dupes and if I can get use out of the system without selling my own SOJs I'll do it as a reward for never duping.
-Tai
Pummeling Deceased Equine.
LuckyDwarf
06-02-2006, 05:05
It beats silence, Reyla.
Lucky
Silence makes me uncofortable, and with all the new runewords, its basically obsolete.
-Tai
LuckyDwarf
06-02-2006, 05:23
I was debating on whether to make that joke myself or not.
Lucky
No worries Jas, I gots ya back.
-Tai
What he said. Mostly. Just take out the random bank analogy, insert analogy about how I don't consider everyone who's ever played a public baal game to be unable to argue against MH, but the point is still the same.
pffft! way to make sense out of my awkward analogies!
who cares if duping is bad or not...it's there, live with it. Adapt or fall behind, it's your choice...if you enjoy being elite, then disregard the fact that the item you just traded for is duped...if you enjoy playing hardcore style, then don't trade for dupes...whatever floats your boat, it's a game and the point is to have fun...just don't sit and whine about something that you can't change. Personally, i have no problem with dupes...dupes are healthy for the dueler's wallet, as they allow me to trade easily for the runes i need to make the duelers i want to...to everyone their own. Noobs will die with or without their dupes, and the good players will always do well, regardless of their items.
wanted to add that i don't mind dupes because they allow me to make the duelers i want to make... i can still win without dupes, as i have in the past dominated lld/mld scenes, but i personally find it more fun when i have more gear options when planning my duelers. Without duping, you and maybe 2 others would have that elite gear and it'd be boring...analogous to a college student with high alcohol tolerance drinking highschool kids under the table. then again, nobody in the hcle hld scene duels anyway, so no difference i guess.
btw, this is coming from somebody who had enigma/hoto/etc before duping hit season3.
MoUsE_WiZ
06-02-2006, 08:43
if you enjoy being elite, then disregard the fact that the item you just traded for is duped...
So being the same as 95% of b.net makes one elite?
Sorry Tamer, you know as well as anyone that having the best items hardly makes you "elite".....it makes you lazy.
HOWEVER!
When it comes to trading for dupes I sit on the fence. I will not trade cheap items for a dupe because it's an easy way to get a high rune.
example: "I have a duped ohm give me 5 chipped gems for it" This is bad.
But the trading economy is no question influenced by dupes unfortunately, and prices change with these fluctuations. If I'm looking to make a runeword and I need a certain rune, I will gladly pay (if i can afford) the asking price the economy (determined by the general public) demands of me. I think this is reasonable.
There are certainly die hard people who will say "i dont care what it costs i will not trade for runes because I "may" end up with a duped rune." I respect this and if you only use items you or your close friends find my hat goes off to you. I am in no way condoning (sp?) duping, or trying to indirectly benefit from it, however trading is a part of the game as well and abiding by the price determined by the general public I don't see is too outrageous. Especially for players like myself who come on for spurts at a time, have alot of aquaintances but not alot of really tight friends who play continuous and are willing to spare high level items. Most of my tightly knit clique that play are like me, on and off and the best we can make do is to trade the items we find for the price determined by the d2 economy at the time.
meh. elite schmeet. i dont trade , not even with friends. with friends its a matter of giving and getting. never trading. if i have it and dont need it its yours.
Whats this about perming ? hows it work....sorry to ask a noob question, but I just started back.
An Im kinda so-so about duping
If you are going to contest my comments, please read the whole post...if you read more, i did say that dupes are not required to win duels, as i have demonstrated in lld and mld...the point I am making is that dupes allow me the option of a greater variety of hld builds. While elite items are not required for lld/mld, the contribution they make to a hld is pretty significant...winning with skill is good, but when your opponent happens to be equally as skilled, elite items will make the difference. Not that anybody duels anyway...retarded.
also, my comment on elite is not a reference to a personal goal, i am merely saying that the point of diablo is to have fun, and if the individual has fun by making chars with duped runes, they are entitled to that. Blizz has rules against duping, no rules against trading for dupes (as far as I am aware). Whether you accept dupes or not, they are a part of diablo and, more likely than not, they will always be there.
In regards to Baranor's comment, i don't trade with friends either, in fact i'm usually pretty generous with them. To everyone your own, if you want to mf for hours to get the items you want, that is your choice. I prefer to make a killing trading, and i am merciless in doing so.
PhatTrumpet
06-02-2006, 21:42
Perming is just a superstition. Some people think if you go through a particular process before leaving a game with a possibly duped rune that it will never disappear... yeah, just like making cow games with a full tome results in more cows, and there's a particular percentage of mf that gets Meph to drop all the best items. Fact is there's no way to know 100% whether the rune you just traded for is a dupe or not, nor is there a way to guarantee that it will never disappear if it is indeed a dupe. Trade at your own risk.
it goes likes this:
go into a full game, drop all your items in the backcorcer of the rogues camp (act1), and type: I wanna dupe! Come get some!
and then you press alt-F4.
MoUsE_WiZ
06-02-2006, 22:44
no rules against trading for dupes (as far as I am aware).
(ix) you may not use "Duplicated Characters" and/or "Duplicated Items" on Battle.net
There ya go.
Valar-Wrath
07-02-2006, 02:49
There ya go.
But it's not punishable for the way he mentioned.
You won't get in trouble for trading for a ber rune and it being duped.
LuckyDwarf
07-02-2006, 02:59
I think what battle.net needs is a wide-spread use of the SoJ maker hack from 1.09. No more itam for you.
Lucky
Omikron8
07-02-2006, 04:29
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=4129663#post4129663
its a rather stupid conversation at that too, but still... since when did duping become ok on this forum?
somewhere around 1.09
MoUsE_WiZ
07-02-2006, 05:16
But it's not punishable for the way he mentioned.
You won't get in trouble for trading for a ber rune and it being duped.
He didn't mention any punishment, just said that blizzard did not have rules against it.
Valar-Wrath
07-02-2006, 05:25
He didn't mention any punishment, just said that blizzard did not have rules against it.
Edit: Nevermind.
MoUsE_WiZ
07-02-2006, 05:27
If enforcement mattered then it would have been perfectly acceptable to use MH right up until the start of this season.
Valar-Wrath
07-02-2006, 05:31
If enforcement mattered then it would have been perfectly acceptable to use MH right up until the start of this season.
Exactly why I edited my post.
TheDarkSide
07-02-2006, 09:14
Of course duping is bad, but you either have to accept the fact that it's a part of realm play or essentially seclude yourself from the trading community and deny yourself of annis.
Exactly what is it I do while everyone else is hunting Dclone ?
Solo Act 2 hell of course ..
And Im about tired of hearing people on the f list *****ing about botting as well . If u are a botter please remove me from your list as I have removed you as well ..
/F R ALL !!!
for the win !!
I tried to post objectively, with an open mind and with hope of a resolution..........I failed! :)
to keep it simple, i do not condone duping, but if it is there, then i will use dupes. Dupes will be there whether i want them to be or not. If it is more fun for you to not 'risk' trading for a dupe, then all the power to you if you want to mf for all your items. I personally don't have the luxory of time to mf for my items, so my trading ability + the presence of dupes allows me to make up for that via other avenues. I think certain codes of ethics should be followed in online games, for example i think scamming is very low thing to do. However, it is a game and other aspects that people seem to have intense opinions about i can't really sympathize...real life is full of enough situations of that nature, is it really necessary to transfer such emotions to a 5+ year old game
to keep it simple, i do not condone duping, but if it is there, then i will use dupes. Dupes will be there whether i want them to be or not. If it is more fun for you to not 'risk' trading for a dupe, then all the power to you if you want to mf for all your items. I personally don't have the luxory of time to mf for my items, so my trading ability + the presence of dupes allows me to make up for that via other avenues. I think certain codes of ethics should be followed in online games, for example i think scamming is very low thing to do. However, it is a game and other aspects that people seem to have intense opinions about i can't really sympathize...real life is full of enough situations of that nature, is it really necessary to transfer such emotions to a 5+ year old game
Yep, sure is as this game would still be played by many more people if it were not for all the illegits! May they all burn!
This forum is always screwed......
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