Why are Tomb Vipers so strong?

[Blue Bird]

The title refers to the Tomb Vipers found in the level underneath the Halls of Pain, where Nihlathak is. Even though I don't usually do this, I just killed him in Hell just now, and I just want to say I'm glad I did not try this in Hardcore, because what I found there was something I really was not prepared for.

They came - 4 or 5 of them - in a pack. When I first saw them, I thought this would be as easy as getting rid of the Claw Vipers in Act II. So I charged at them with my Assassin, again not bothering with Cloak of Shadows. Then I realised they had an elemental attack, a missile such as the Vipers found in the Frozen River, except that this was poison instead of magic.

The next thing I knew I was dead.

And only after I was dead did I realise what had happened in those 3 seconds before I died. As I rushed to them with the intention of charging my Fists of Fire (as they were Lightning Immune), I got caught in their poison missile, which left a cloud of poison. I clearly underestimated this cloud by comparing it to the poison clouds left by the undead in Act II. I thought with my 20% life leech and dual clawed, 1000 damage per claw attack, I would easily gain my life back.

But it was after this poison cloud had reduced me to 1 damage that they moved in with their melee attack, which killed me, right after I pressed the hotkey to drink my Red Potion, which probably wouldn't have helped.

Happy Ending:

Needless to say, I got really ****** off, managed to pick up my body, came back with Full Rejuvenation Potions I had saved in my stash, and after I killed Nihlathak, I went back and killed EVERY SINGLE one of them without mercy. And not just the male ones... the women and children too!!! -_- That will teach them not to mess with Speedwrath!!!

------------//-------------

Anyways, story aside, I just wanted to know what makes Tomb Vipers so damn strong. Because one thing I noticed while I was doing the... Tomb Viper MASSACRE, was how their poison clouds hit me, and sometimes my life decreased slowly, and others it just went from 50% to like 1%!!! What exactly happened there? :/
Guess I found something to do when I'm bored. ^_^

[Hrus]

Their poison attack is bugged and physical damage is used instead of poison. You take around 50 damage each frame or something like that (in Hell). I remember that I saw a post where someone claims that damage reduced by 50 (not by 50%, but by 50) is enough to nulify their attack.

[McCain123]

Hrus already explained the basics. I have read different damage numbers, but I havent done testings so I won´t say any. What however is true, is that the poison cloud of those vipers does physical damage per frame. One second has 25 frames so the damage piles up pretty fast. However there are some ways to deal with this damage. One way would be to put on gear with absolute ( not % ) damage reduction, like for example Gladiators Bane or socket sol runes in your gear. The other method doesn´t require a change of gear, but a change of fighting behaviour. As long, as you don´t move in a poison cloud, you won´t take the physical damage. Sounds easy, but it is not, as those vipers have the habbit to charge your through their clouds. Position yourself in a corner and wait for the vipers to engage you. They will be poisoning you, they will be charging you, but you won´t take the huge physical damage of the clouds as they can´t move you.

[Dadou]

I play HC Ladder and never dared to go donw there, but I read that indeed the framed-dmg activates when running. I don't know however if walking is also affected. So, don't move, or... teleport instead of running !

[thegiantturtle]

I read that indeed the framed-dmg activates when running. I don't know however if walking is also affected. So, don't move, or... teleport instead of running !Both walking and running will move you through the cloud and reapply the physical damage.

[jiansonz]

What I have found is that the worst thing you can do is move towards the snake, "into" the missile (as my stupid mercs tend to do). Passing through the poison trail sideways is not so bad. Getting hit while you stand still hurts, but is not so bad unless you get hit by too many at once.

Blinding is excellent (you should have use Cloak of Shadows!), teleporting into melee rnage works pretty well, and using the corners wisely helps a lot.

[Blue Bird]

OMG!!! No wonder I died just like that, I have like 150% Faster Run Speed. o_O

And yeah, I don't usually use Cloak of Shadows unless there's a lot of enemies on the screen and they might swarm me, so I didn't get the chance to use it the first time. They still shoot me if I get too close though. :/ Even with the Cloak, so I did die a few times while I was killing them. Good thing I set up a TP. :p

If I ever try killing them in Hardcore, I'll make sure I set a TP up as well in case I die.

[SirDooFuss]

If I ever try killing them in Hardcore, I'll make sure I set a TP up as well in case I die.

I KNOW you've got to be joking here...right?...RIGHT???:shocked:

Apparently this bugged damage has been around at least since v1.10, but few ever went down there until the keys showed up in v1.11 which is when I first stumbled accross it with my javazon. That stuff takes out mercs and valks in the blink of an eye! I just spammed my javs into anywhere my "canaries" (merc and valk) died or where I thought the vipers might be. No problem!

[Blue Bird]

Why would I be joking? I don't feel like walking all the way from the WP to pick up my body when die..... Ooops did I say Hardcore? ^_^






BTW, how did you kill them with a Javazon if they're all Lightning Immunes? :/

[SirDooFuss]

BTW, how did you kill them with a Javazon if they're all Lightning Immunes? :/

Good question. LF has got to have a physical component (base of jav?)since I know I can leach, it could only have been from the physical portion of the attack, or maybe other elemental stuff I was carrying. I believe the set up was titans and spirit monarch. Does this make sense or am I dead wrong? It's been quite a few months...:undecided:

[HolyHammer]

Thanks for this post, I had been wondering the same thing. I have a very well-equipped (and Max PR) Hammerdin who got killed by what I thought was a poison attack. Thinking "poison attacks can't kill" I figured I got drained to about 1 health and an unseen Fetish or something shot me. So I went back in, recovered my corpse, and promptly got killed again.

I'll remember this info for the next time I go DKey hunting.

[Blue Bird]

Good question. LF has got to have a physical component (base of jav?)since I know I can leach, it could only have been from the physical portion of the attack, or maybe other elemental stuff I was carrying. I believe the set up was titans and spirit monarch. Does this make sense or am I dead wrong? It's been quite a few months...:undecided:


Actually, I don't think Lightning Fury has ANY physical damage at all. :/ You do the same Lightning Damage with Lightning Fury no matter what Javelin you use.
You also deal a tad physical damage but is that really enough to kill monsters in Hell? :/

[SirDooFuss]

Actually, I don't think Lightning Fury has ANY physical damage at all. :/ You do the same Lightning Damage with Lightning Fury no matter what Javelin you use.
You also deal a tad physical damage but is that really enough to kill monsters in Hell? :/

Time to dust off my key-hunting javazon. I'll go nilly hunting tonight! I'd better check to see what I have on weapon switch too.:undecided:

[SirDooFuss]

As I thought, I am leaching with LF. I took the red portal to pindy (since I still refuse to take the waypoint) and LF/Fended my way through all 3 levels to nilly, completely clearing the map. I used LF on all 4 branches of the 3rd level and never saw a single viper...did I just get a good roll??? Didn;t even get touched by Nilly's CE. One thing that I forgot about my equip is that my jav wears Fortitude. That 300% ed is probably boosting my physical damage. (no key though)
I'm sure there are better key-runners, but I'll stick with my javazon.

[krischan]

Tomb Vipers don't appear all the time, but if they do, your LF zon will notice them very quickly because they are LI :wink:

[Dadou]

What about WW ? If you WW in the poison, are you considered running/walking and thus take the dmg ? Or is it a good way to survive ?

Do you all wear "slain monsters rest in peace" gear when going down there ?

[pedu]

I dont wear natures peace or anything with slain monsters rest in peace mod. I have a lightning sorc, i tele down there, avoid getting hit by vipers. At nihl, i tele first to one corner behind him, shoot some lightning at him, then tele to the other corner and finish him off. If hes immune, i see if there are any vipers around, if it is, then ill make a new game, if there arent i kill him with my merc.
Technically (can someone say how you write that stupid word) hes never immune, cos my merc has infinity, but it still takes alot longer to take him down, so the chance of ce and nasty viper suprises is bigger.

[roomonfire]

Technically (can someone say how you write that stupid word)

you got it. :thumbsup:

[handofnaz]

The Vipers apparently deal damage per frame, which is supposedly how poison works as well, but it seems that these guys get a whopping 30 per frame as opposed to, say, .1 or .3 that player characters would deal. Check here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=415467) for some useful information.

[leddan]

Best way to do that key run in hell is a Skellymancer IMO. Granted your merc will die quickly when he goes charging into that cloud of poison like a moron (mine has 90 poison resists in hell too), but the skeletons can tank them pretty well if you have decent + skills with little to no danger to you.

[roomonfire]

Best way to do that key run in hell is a Skellymancer IMO. Granted your merc will die quickly when he goes charging into that cloud of poison like a moron (mine has 90 poison resists in hell too), but the skeletons can tank them pretty well if you have decent + skills with little to no danger to you.

i agree with that. your merc will die, but your skellies won't. in fact, you don't even need to exercise more caution when dealing with these things as a skelemancer...

[SirGalahad]

Good question,

I was wondering why my lvl 92, battle hardend, torch holding, Uber tristram verteran fanatic/zealot deid with one slap. :tongue: I thought it was a multi charge hit.

Still I use myTrapper for these runs. I think that's what is best for that Corps exploding creep. I keep my Shadow out front and hit them with the mind blast. When I get to Nilithak I just lay out the death senty and go boom. It rocks.

[Bonzaikitten]

Best thing imo to get nila down is a decent Meteor Sorc :smiley:

depending on his mods, 1-2 Meteors would be enough (my sorc deals 27k meteor dam atm)
Its easy to get him..teleporting through the 4 chambers until u got the right one, then get in a corner behind him, cast some meteors and tele around until he`s finished..easy job if he should be fire immun (sometimes happen)
static him and pray that ur merc gets him down fast :rolleyes:

I got killed by the vipers too several times, and one time with my sorc too.
Was bad luck teleporting right between 4-5 of them...No Chance..

[DANIEL3RD]

Why would I be joking? I don't feel like walking all the way from the WP to pick up my body when die..... Ooops did I say Hardcore? ^_^
BTW, how did you kill them with a Javazon if they're all Lightning Immunes? :/


I only ever use my LF zon for running Nith and I have no problems at all with the Vipers or Nith even though they are LI. Nith may need a few hits to take down, but down he does go. As for the vipers poison clouds, try wearing a pair of Sandstorm treks and an Atmas Scarab and learn not to run directly at them.

[terpfan]

Best thing imo to get nila down is a decent Meteor Sorc :smiley:

depending on his mods, 1-2 Meteors would be enough (my sorc deals 27k meteor dam atm)
Its easy to get him..teleporting through the 4 chambers until u got the right one, then get in a corner behind him, cast some meteors and tele around until he`s finished..easy job if he should be fire immun (sometimes happen)
static him and pray that ur merc gets him down fast :rolleyes:

I got killed by the vipers too several times, and one time with my sorc too.
Was bad luck teleporting right between 4-5 of them...No Chance..

I agree, a meteor sorc makes things easy. Just wanted to point out that you can just look at the markings on the wall to know which way to go, no need to search all 4.

[SirGalahad]

I agree, a meteor sorc makes things easy. Just wanted to point out that you can just look at the markings on the wall to know which way to go, no need to search all 4.


Aaaand the markings are.......???:wink:

[jag]

Another build that makes very short work of Nihlathak and all his little buddies is a bonemancer (w/ enigma + natures peace)

I telly to a spot away from the snakes and then aim at them with bone spear -- the piercing attack kills everything in line to the target -- Also able to stand still down there with bone shield long enough to avoid moving in a snakes 'poison' attack cloud. Snakes are a 1st priority target -- next is ice archers/hell witches, then nihlathak....

[icicle]

I wonder if the poison thinggy is a plague javelin. Anyway, my windy has no problem running nilly. Whenever I see the tomb vipers, I'd teleport to their side and spam tornados. Don't stay in the narrow corridors with the vipers in front of you and avoid getting direct hit from several vipers. I usually switch on carrion vine and most of the time, my life doesn't drop at all even though I am poisoned. Fighting nilly is straightforward. Teleport on top of him (usually in the middle of the pedestal) and spam tornados at him. He'd be dead in less than 5 seconds if you get direct hits.

[terpfan]

Aaaand the markings are.......???:wink:

Hard for me to explain without pics, but it's shown in this thread:
(scroll down to Lprman's post) :thumbsup:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=401086&page=2

[SirGalahad]

Hard for me to explain without pics, but it's shown in this thread:
(scroll down to Lprman's post) :thumbsup:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=401086&page=2


Thanks, I just tested that out, The 'eyes' have it. (Although the first link is messed up, it is accurate on the second quote. Odd.)

On which is the best character to run him, guys I am telling you the Trap Assasin is the best. As long as you keep the Shadow out there and hit the snakes with Mind Blast you get a kill and then clean up with CE (It would be even better if all my traps were not all lightning). Nilathak is even easier, he can't do anything with you popping Death Sentry on all his minoans CE'ing them before he can.

[remsy]

LI doesn't actually matter against weaker enemies or enemies with low def.

The usual suspects are those ugly dog demons on the way to andy, beetles, souls, stranglers and the vipers in Nihl. I use my LF javazon and spam my lightning fury on them and they die anyway. The physical damage is considerable from eth titans or regular titans. Especially with the pierce and rebounding.

[SirGalahad]

LI doesn't actually matter against weaker enemies or enemies with low def.

The usual suspects are those ugly dog demons on the way to andy, beetles, souls, stranglers and the vipers in Nihl. I use my LF javazon and spam my lightning fury on them and they die anyway. The physical damage is considerable from eth titans or regular titans. Especially with the pierce and rebounding.


I thought that ALL the damage from lightning fury was converted to Lightning damage?

[Eternium]

I don't think so - otherwise you wouldn't leach from it.

[SirDooFuss]

I don't think so - otherwise you wouldn't leach from it.

Yep. The LI's don't qo down as quick as the others, but they still go down.:laugh:

It's been soooooo long since I had visited Nilly, I was suprised to see how his CE has been nerfed from the old days.:shocked:

[remsy]

Yep if LF was entirely lightning damage we'd also be screwed in pvp.