View Full Version : Last wish but where?
I want to know where is better to mk last wish?Pb or Ba?
MegaFlame
02-02-2006, 20:34
PB IMO because last wish itself doesn't provide any ias at all so with a BA you need 55% ias to reach the max smite bp with level 20 fanaticism which is a lot of ias to get. So with PB you only need like 10% ias to reach the last smite bp which is godly easy.
PB IMO because last wish itself doesn't provide any ias at all so with a BA you need 55% ias to reach the max smite bp with level 20 fanaticism which is a lot of ias to get. So with PB you only need like 10% ias to reach the last smite bp which is godly easy.
Well for smite I would recommend Pb too, but it's not that difficult to get 55%. 20% from LOH, socket helm with 15% IAS jewel, and use highlord for another 20%, problem solved. If you use dracul for lifetap, then socket 15% into your hoz and use noferatu coil belt (15 helm 15 shield 10 belt 20 amulet) problem solved again.
*Edit*
Hmm.. I forgot lastwish has lifetap already, so 20% LOH, 20% highlord, and 15% in helm is all you need. All these items like LOH and highlord are recommended items anyway, not really much sacrify. And since you have so much CB in lastwish, you could just use kira helm for resist and cannot be frozen, socket with 15% ias jewel, no need for guil face. Now you have two empty ring spaces which is pretty good to configure however you like. I thought of this already, and plan to use BA lastwish.
One thing to note if you use BA, make sure, make sure you make in regular BA, not superior, you'll thanks me when your repair cost is < 5k, mine is 30k because I stupidly made mine in superior BA, didn't even get max dmg, but I did get 69%CB.
MegaFlame
02-02-2006, 21:08
True 55% is obtainable with certain gears, but they do hinder you on some other important things. K, for example, highlord for ias. But then you wouldn't have as much resists as if using a mara's, also highlord's DS doesn't work on smite, so it's a waste.
And if you get ias from belt then you wouldn't be able to use dungos, which gives huge life.
Finally, a PB looks sexy and it doesn't have to be repaired, a BA costs pretty good money to repair IMO, you don't want to solo uber trist and then have a broken weapon.
Ever considered using WarSpike?
You'll only need 40IAS to hit 4fpa zeal and 6fpa smite and you don't have to burn any dexterity on a Phase blade, assuming that you're not planning to use exile (otherwise, just stick with a PB)
The 40IAS can come from highlord and laying of hand. Now with Last Wish there shouldn't be any need for the small %boost in chance to cast lifetap, so laying of hand is obvious choice here (350% ED to demons, got to love that.)
Having a bit of deadlystrike helps in zealing. Highlord is not a bad amulet consider it gives a good boost to lightning resist, which is primarily one of the main resistance you'll need against mephisto.
Not to mention LOH give 50% fire, together with highlord 35%, now all you need is cold resist, which can be done with 30% cold gc. I guess it boil down to, do you zeal or just smite? If you also zeal, then either warspike or BA beacause it giev alot more dmg than Pb.
kingdryland
03-02-2006, 18:18
I would vote for berserker axe. Phase blade last wish has pitiful damage for the runes involved. It grants life tap,so drac's are not needed,use loh instead. It gives fade so you need less resists,so use highlord's. A 15% ias jewel on helm (that can be kira or coa or shako or whatever since guil face is an overkill)will take you to final smite/zeal bp with last wish zerk. LW + gore rider +highlord's is an easy 75%-85% crushing blow and 50% deadly strike at high levels.
and for a zealer?
For Ubers or in general?
In general a eBOTDz is the way to go but a grief pb or LW pb will work too.
kingdryland
03-02-2006, 20:20
Grief>any ebotd in my opinion in pvm and pvp.
MegaFlame
03-02-2006, 22:11
Ebotd is great that it gives you huge bonus to attributes and thus allowing for other high str gears.
kingdryland
04-02-2006, 00:42
So does tyrael's in strength but still Coh and fortitude are way superior choices.
Grief>any ebotd in my opinion in pvm and pvp.
BOTD has high damage, huge stat increases, can be made in eth weapons such as zerks and not have to worry about huge repair costs, and awesome leeching. For PvM on a zealer there is no better weapon. I've used a grief for PvM and it seemed like the raw killing power of my zealot just wasnt there anymore like it was with a BOTD. It may be because I'm such an ugh smash player but it seriously felt like my zealots killing ability went down significantly when using a grief.
PvP I would probably use, if I had choice, a 40/x Grief PB over BOTD.
MegaFlame
04-02-2006, 08:35
Dude with a Grief PB I killed hell like easy. Well with Ebotd Zerk it wasn't bad either, but the feeling of godly damage just wasn't there anymore.
Valvolux
04-02-2006, 09:36
Most ppl prefer BOTD to grief for pvm because of the duel leech. Pvp different story of course...
kingdryland
04-02-2006, 17:41
Zeal requires 2 mana and grief offers 2 mana after each kill.Hence Mana leech is irrelevant. As for life leech,I use dracul's so it is irrelevant as well,tap does the trick(grief offers 10+ life after each kill as well,not bad) Now,as for raw damage,a mediocre phase blade grief beats even 415% ethereal botd zerk axes. Here is a comparison,not just personal feeling.
Grief phase blade(indestructible,repair costs irrelevant) +370 (that's average) user, 150 str. lvl 25 zeal/fana
5358 average damage per zeal.
Eth berserker axe 415% botd user, 180 str, lvl 25 zeal/fana
4171 average damage per zeal.
The venom damage from grief wasn't taken into account,the huge damage to demons was ignored as well,I only used the deadly strike. Venom+damage to demons make grief even more damaging. The increased ar from botd is irrelevant,because grief is itd. The increased vita from botd is the only thing in favor of it but leech from life tap should cover that. The grief user enjoys of a powerful smite as well. Ebotd is a good weapon,it is just outclassed by the new king, grief,which is higher in the food chain. Simple as that.
The thread was about Last wish btw. For pvm way better than botd imo.
MegaFlame
05-02-2006, 08:51
There was a thread where kingdryland stated how trivial life leech actually is even in hell. So anyways leech can't not considered that good anymore, and that's why Ebotd's dual leech don't make that much of a difference even with 6 frame zeal and plus, grief is the godliest smiter weapon.
mystyque
10-02-2006, 14:13
According to Weapon Speed Calculator with lvl 25 fana you need 58% ias to reach 4fps breakpoint with zeal. And that's the problem. Somebody said it was 55% which is easily reachable with LOH, highlords and 15%ias jewel, but if it's really 58% what should i do? Socket another jewel?
kingdryland
10-02-2006, 14:37
Same calculator says that you need lvl 36 fana with that gear on to hit max speed with ba Last wish. Just add a nosferatu belt (10%ias).
LordOfDesttructtion
10-02-2006, 17:55
Zeal requires 2 mana and grief offers 2 mana after each kill.Hence Mana leech is irrelevant.
That will do for most situations, except one: if you're surrounded by a group of monsters and one of them has mana burn. You must have mana leech for this, or some mana potions. I don't like to rely on mana potions, so I still find some %mana leech on a zealot is a must. I recently replaced my ebotdz with a zerker Grief, and I'm happy with it. But I had to replace my wisp with a dual leech ring. The "+mana after each kill" really didn't cut it in some tough situations I got into.
kingdryland
10-02-2006, 18:05
That will do for most situations, except one: if you're surrounded by a group of monsters and one of them has mana burn. You must have mana leech for this, or some mana potions. I don't like to rely on mana potions, so I still find some %mana leech on a zealot is a must. I recently replaced my ebotdz with a zerker Grief, and I'm happy with it. But I had to replace my wisp with a dual leech ring. The "+mana after each kill" really didn't cut it in some tough situations I got into.
I have no problems, unless I have to face uber baal (unleechable anyway),and for him I keep a few mana pots in belt. 2 mana for 5 zeals is nothing,regeneration itself helps alot vs man burn. Still 1% mana leech is more than enough,or %damage goes to mana items as well.
Zeal requires 2 mana and grief offers 2 mana after each kill.Hence Mana leech is irrelevant. As for life leech,I use dracul's so it is irrelevant as well,tap does the trick(grief offers 10+ life after each kill as well,not bad) Now,as for raw damage,a mediocre phase blade grief beats even 415% ethereal botd zerk axes. Here is a comparison,not just personal feeling.
Grief phase blade(indestructible,repair costs irrelevant) +370 (that's average) user, 150 str. lvl 25 zeal/fana
5358 average damage per zeal.
Eth berserker axe 415% botd user, 180 str, lvl 25 zeal/fana
4171 average damage per zeal.
The venom damage from grief wasn't taken into account,the huge damage to demons was ignored as well,I only used the deadly strike. Venom+damage to demons make grief even more damaging. The increased ar from botd is irrelevant,because grief is itd. The increased vita from botd is the only thing in favor of it but leech from life tap should cover that. The grief user enjoys of a powerful smite as well. Ebotd is a good weapon,it is just outclassed by the new king, grief,which is higher in the food chain. Simple as that.
The thread was about Last wish btw. For pvm way better than botd imo.
Venom is irrelavant as immunities run rampant in hell. Plus BOTD casts venom nova 50% of the time after each kill so you get psn from that as well.
+2 mana after each kill is useless in a crowd where even one monster has mana burn and mana pots...ICK! Let the casters have them.
LT? My zealer has no way of casting LT, he does not need it to "survive". Plus it won't save me from IM anyways and thats the only reason I would use/want it. Instead I opted for 60/x rends.
ITD is pointless as you only need about 8.5k-9k ar to consistently hit anything in hell anyways, 10k if you want to be really safe, and since most stock up on ar/life charms thats not a hard point to hit.
Smite? Are you talking about a hybrid or do you actually use it on a straight zealer? Azurwrath/Lighsaber + Vengance my friend takes care of all your phys immune needs.
kingdryland
10-02-2006, 19:13
Venom is irrelavant as immunities run rampant in hell. Plus BOTD casts venom nova 50% of the time after each kill so you get psn from that as well.
+2 mana after each kill is useless in a crowd where even one monster has mana burn and mana pots...ICK! Let the casters have them.
LT? My zealer has no way of casting LT, he does not need it to "survive". Plus it won't save me from IM anyways and thats the only reason I would use/want it. Instead I opted for 60/x rends.
ITD is pointless as you only need about 8.5k-9k ar to consistently hit anything in hell anyways, 10k if you want to be really safe, and since most stock up on ar/life charms thats not a hard point to hit.
Smite? Are you talking about a hybrid or do you actually use it on a straight zealer? Azurwrath/Lighsaber + Vengance my friend takes care of all your phys immune needs.
First of all,about life tap,a zealot can survive hell easily with lowish defense (5k as long he has max block),lowish ar (almost zip when using itd weapons like lightsabre), lowish crushing blow (15% is enough) as long as he hits fast and is accurate ,lowish damage reduction as long as he is cautious,no life tap if he has very good life leech and is really careful,etc etc etc. The point is that he won't be as powerful as he can be,and a pvm zealot with life tap is big steps ahead in terms of survivability and effectiveness than compared to one that doesn't use that. He can leech all (besides physical immunes) monsters ,from act1 fallens to uber baal.Who would like to argue on that I don't know.
To grief vs botd. First of all ,I take it that you accept that in terms of pure brutality almost any grief is significantly more powerful than the best botd. 8k ar may be enough to consistently hit monsters in the game,but itd means almost always, with no real need for ar items. Grief will connect more,deliver more damage and more crushing blows which in the long term make a difference in killing speed. Instead of stocking ar charms in pvm with it,you can stock lifers and compensate the botd vita advantage.
Mana leech. Mana burn monsters aren't an issue for me,perhaps you had problems in crowds because you weren't using life tap which allows to exchanged more hits safer even with low mana. Still as many of us do,one can use a mana leecher rare ring with other useful mods.
About smite. I m not talking about a hybrid, I despise zeal/smite hybrids.
Smite is a prerequisite for holy shield (that every 1h fanatic zealot should have). 1pt smite when using grief can produce more damage than specialized pvp smiters (astreon's,pala combat skillers etc) were dealing until grief appeared. And of course,a grief zealot has the potential to easily became very effective uber slayer,an ideal botd user will always be a lesser one.
Venom vs Psn nova. Nova seems to have bigger damage BUT, first ,it is a post killing effect that triggers half of the time, venom from grief takes advantage of a -% to psn res from the weapon, casts at once and stays there during the whole game, and is there with every zeal you land.
To explain myself.We don't discuss whether botd is a good weapon,it is a godly zealot weapon,the former king if you ask me. We discuss about the BEST overall weapon, and grief has no match, hands down. Not only it is superior,it is cheaper as well,cancelling the need to acquire/use botd.
I keep in my stash/switch an azurewrath and a set of gimmershred my friend,vs PI/iron maiden,take a look around,these topics have been discussed again and again and again on these forums. Points in vengeance are a waste imo,as I argued many times. Slow attack,no crowd control,mana intensive...
But if you want to discuss the issue,start a thread,we hijacked this one enough I reckon.
Valvolux
11-02-2006, 01:39
If you rely on Life tap for your life leech then you will run into problems when necros, ctc zons, reaper mercs etc are in your game, sure the damage is great on grief but its overkill for pvm, i'd take the dual leech any day. For big mana users aswell i.e. ww barbs that can't rely on life tap, dual leech is a must.
Last wish may have good mods, but is slow (as said before) and needs 3 jahs, sur and ber which is outta most ppls price range.
kingdryland
11-02-2006, 02:12
If there are necros in the game,they can cast life tap,amp damage/decrip is less of a necessity for their skellies when they enjoy of a high level fanaticism from the zealot. As for zons,if they have knockback,good luck leeching with or without life tap :) Certainly not a problem. Botd isn't cheap either,it requires eth zerker axe that can cost an arm and a leg and two high runes (or 1,5 on ladder,vex isn't that expensive). Ebotd is overkill for pvm as well ,doom,beast etc too...Still best is best.That's my point.
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