View Full Version : Low Level Dueler Builds
Hey we gotta make a sticky thread about low lvl dueling builds. Can anyone offer any advice on good low lvl dueler builds?
tomatoman
02-02-2006, 06:09
i can. level/class your interested in? i might compile a guide with alot of them
crimsonfury
02-02-2006, 06:12
i can prolly say of the bat, chargers jabbers kickers
i heard these were good, and im also wondering, what does the kicker build put her pts into other than talon of course...
tomatoman
02-02-2006, 06:48
kickers are the class im least experienced with so i hope you dont want a guide for them :x
im pretty sure kickers can charge up and release charges on kicks so they would put points into tiger strike
crimsonfury
02-02-2006, 06:51
i thought that much myself, then again, tiger strike is godly for any melee atk...
o and the thing about releasing charges, dragon talon(and all the dragon techniques) are considered finishing moves, which means, they can release charges
(1) = Primary Builds
(2) = Secondary Builds
(3) = Builds that would be successful only in PK'ing or against PVM chars
Pally:
Zealot (1)
Charger (1)
Sacadin (2)
Zon:
Charged strike (2)
Jab (1)
Impale (3)
Sorc:
Fireball (3)
Nova/Merc (3)
Barb:
Conc (1)
Throw (1)
Double swing/Bash (2/3)
Necro:
Amp/merc (3)
Druid:
Hunger or Maul? (3)
- cant remember which, haven't played in forever but the basics of the build is tons of life, fast attack, no dmg
Asn:
Kicker (1)
Tiger Strike (1)
Trapper (3)
These are all the possible/potential lld builds I can remember see'ing or using off the top of my head. I've used everything I listed as a (3) so you can argue the viability of them all you want, it's just a personal opinion :)
Anyways, possible guides for you to write. Good luck
edit: builds are hardcore based. I don't see why they wouldn't translate over but my experience is in HC
Sorry for double post.
As per kickers and asns in general.
- Kickers do not need TS. They rely on speed and crushing blow. Their dmg is minimal.
- Tiger Strike asns don't use a finisher. It's a waste of skills and a good asn won't need the finisher for the dmg. It's a matter of timing with releasing your charge for the kill.
tomatoman
02-02-2006, 17:50
lld /mld builds i can give a rough guide about:
Amas:
Charged Strike (low)
Jab (low-low/mid)
Asns:
Kickers (low/mid)
Ts sins (low)
Babas:
Doublethrow (low-low/mid)
Conc (low/middish)
Zerk (Mid)
WW (Mid)
Palas:
Zeal (low/middish)
1h Charge (low)
2h Charge (low)
1h Charge (low/middish)
2h Charge (low/middish)
Smite (mid)
Sacrifice (low)
Necro:
Tele/IG (29-30s)
I agree with Aaron on the kicker/TS thing. Kickers are not about high physical damage (of course, it wouldnt hurt, but its not the focus), and as such, the points you would otherwise put in TS would be better spent other places.
On a side note, I'd bump both of those sorc build (fireballer and the "insert skill here"/merc) up to 2's. I've also played them both, and had good success with both. The fireballer is great for pking, but also decently successful in duels. It probably wont get a ton of ears, but against anything slower (ie, almost all non chargers in the LLD range), it will prolly win, since it wont ever be caught, unless you mess up.
I also had great success with a level 30 sorc using a merc. She used a ridiculous combo of skills, which was quite fun, and left a lot of people wondering what sort of build she was. I went with a high level enchant/fire mastry, adding a pretty decent chunk of fire damage to my merc's attack. I dropped a couple into fireball, but found that since I was going for FCR on my sorc, and she wasnt designed as a fireballer, she wasnt doing the actual killing. I found that it was better then, to go with frost nova//nova. Of course, throwing hydras around was always fun, and seemed to play a role in convincing a lot of people to duel her. (after all, what sort of viable PvP LLDer has hydras...)
Just my thoughts on those two ;)
-Matt
BigDaddy
03-02-2006, 18:41
I would love to have a guide for characters at lvl 9 for dueling. Basicly just examples of gear to use and skills & stats. Thx.
MadBengerman
03-02-2006, 19:01
For level 9 dueling, I always go with a poison javelin zon, and I've never lost. I've only played in ironman untweaked duels though, so I'm guessing tweaked kickers would probrally be better than poison javelin zon tweaked.
^ just my 2 cents
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=204920
note that its a guide for HC duelling... a poison jav zon wont work on hc for example.
On a side note, I'd bump both of those sorc build (fireballer and the "insert skill here"/merc) up to 2's. I've also played them both, and had good success with both. The fireballer is great for pking, but also decently successful in duels. It probably wont get a ton of ears, but against anything slower (ie, almost all non chargers in the LLD range), it will prolly win, since it wont ever be caught, unless you mess up.
-Matt
The thing I found with lvl 18-24 sorcs is that the lack of mana is punishing. Although fireball can dish out dmg and frost/nova with merc is powerful, there isnt enough mana to constant tele.
Thats the achilles heel I found in the build thats detrimental to the build.
can anyone help me make a good lvl 18 kicker sin
D2Freak91776
04-02-2006, 02:50
I have a level 18 kicker sin with some cheap gear I threw on her. Not the best possible but it killed all but the best.
6 P topazed military pick
biggons
twitchthroe
cow kings boots
blood fists
nightsmoke
angelics
swordback hold
a few elemental dmg charms.
The best gear would prolly be a lot of 20 psn dmg, with other mods jeweled items.
tomatoman
04-02-2006, 03:27
I have a level 18 kicker sin with some cheap gear I threw on her. Not the best possible but it killed all but the best.
6 P topazed military pick
biggons
twitchthroe
cow kings boots
blood fists
nightsmoke
angelics
swordback hold
a few elemental dmg charms.
The best gear would prolly be a lot of 20 psn dmg, with other mods jeweled items.
cow kings boots = crappy kick dmg
get some greaves (beleive they are best for level 18)
D2Freak91776
04-02-2006, 04:07
I like the dex and the fire damage from cow kings boots.
NewForumBloke
04-02-2006, 05:23
If you guys look in the HC thread's stickies there are guides and suggestions for these builds all over... Really talking to HC guys is where you all are going to get your best advice.
-BLoke
Full_Circle
04-02-2006, 06:03
cow kings boots = crappy kick dmg
get some greaves (beleive they are best for level 18)
Kickers do terrible physical damage short of level 25 however you cut it. I'd be interested in seeing the output of a near pure ele damage kicker (or ele/crushflange) with ck boots. Just off the top of my head, I'd probably try something like this...
3 pruby mask
twitch pruby
ck boots
6 ptopaz weapon (crystal sword if you can hit the top bp's w/out a -10 speed weapon... easier reqs, otherwise military pick) or crushflange
bsod (life, dex, or ele dmg jewels)
death's gloves & belt
angelics
lots of lightning damage charms, a cold damage charm, some fire damage charms and life charms as fillers
base str and dex, or as close to it as you can achieve to get your gear on and get 75% block... all vita build
maybe I will try it... if nothing else, it's incredibly cheap to build
i would expect as good as output with ele/cb as much as pure dmg. like you said, pre-25 is low dmg anyways
I have a level 18 kicker sin with some cheap gear I threw on her. Not the best possible but it killed all but the best.
6 P topazed military pick
biggons
twitchthroe
cow kings boots
blood fists
nightsmoke
angelics
swordback hold
a few elemental dmg charms.
The best gear would prolly be a lot of 20 psn dmg, with other mods jeweled items.
I'm curious as to how you got a nightsmoke on a level 18...
As tomato pointed out, CK boots=crap damage. While I'd take them anyday on any other 18, drop em on a kicker, they are abysmal damage...
As "newforumbloke" said, a lot of us HC guys are the people you want to talk to about LLDing... we do a lot of it. Except prolly not me right now, as its my 19th birthday, and I'm pretty damn drunk at the moment.
D2freak, aside from the CK boot changes, I'd also say switch the shield... its not doin you much good. I dont know the skill/ias breakpoints on kickers off the top of my head, but you'll want either a sigons shield (+1 skill) or a BSoD.
-Matt
tomatoman
04-02-2006, 09:30
happy birthday now come spend it on d2 in op xbananax and talk to me so im not bored sitting here with realm down for hours. also forget your life come back to deetoo and remake your jabbar
all out charms and ptopaz nets 26-640 added lighting dam, so thats about 3-108 after PvP penalty per kick hit. add in 20-30 pvp from the boots and you're done. 20-130 pvp per kick, 4 kicks in a cycle, so 80-500 per cycle, or 160-1000 per second. it works, even without the charms... killed quite a few unsuspecting peeps that way, hugely amusing vs chargers of any kind.
wow you guys are seriously into this azn kicker, is there a decent bash barb lld out there?
wow you guys are seriously into this azn kicker, is there a decent bash barb lld out there?
Bashers won't prevail... One fun lld barb is a thrower, can get some kills as well :rolleyes:
you can make a bash and/or double barbs viable for pvp and for dueling weaker duelers but as Ankeli said they won't hold up in a good duel. But they are fun and cheap.
Jerkazoid
05-02-2006, 21:00
we talking HC/SC yes-potions or no-potions here?
i would never go ele dmg on a vlld kicker. (sc, no potions)
defence route; sigons trio (hat gloves boots) + ancient armor
plenty of DTM (40%)
crushflange (or gnasher) + pelta (slot I)
amp talon + pelta (slot II)
start with kick + crushflange
at 50% switch to amp talon, charge up.
switch back to kick with charges + crushflange
since you can only put 9 into Dtalon on a lvl 9
add 1 cm, 2 bos, the rest goes into TS anyway.
we talking HC/SC yes-potions or no-potions here?
i would never go ele dmg on a vlld kicker. (sc, no potions)
defence route; sigons trio (hat gloves boots) + ancient armor
plenty of DTM (40%)
crushflange (or gnasher) + pelta (slot I)
amp talon + pelta (slot II)
start with kick + crushflange
at 50% switch to amp talon, charge up.
switch back to kick with charges + crushflange
since you can only put 9 into Dtalon on a lvl 9
add 1 cm, 2 bos, the rest goes into TS anyway.
I think baranor is talking about a level 18 kicker with the elemental gear, not a 9.
I'm curious as to how the ancient armor would work... seems like it'd require pretty much every last point, plus some charms to get enough strength to use it. However, provided you dont duel anyone 12+, you might get away with base vit, simply because nobody would ever hit you... interesting. Seems more like a hc build, mostly because you'll find the occasional level 9 smiter on SC, and almost exclusively TS sins and sacadins on HC.
tomatoman
06-02-2006, 04:09
yeah ancient armor = 100 strength? that would be pure str + charms to get there on a 9 sin. would be demolished imo.
yeah ancient armor = 100 strength? that would be pure str + charms to get there on a 9 sin. would be demolished imo.
An eth one would be the way to go, higher defense, lower req's, and in all likelyhood on HC, wouldnt matter, because when the character finally got hit, it'd be a miracle if it didnt instantly die. Still though, thats a LOT of strength on a level 9 assassin, point taken, I'm just nitpicking ;)
not if you could get four -15% req 20% ED jools its not... and that would add some (although not significantly much) damage to the kicks. eth with -60% reqs means 30 str req (eth is already at -10% reqs)
it's bne expensive armor to get hit in to ;)
inanefedaykin
06-02-2006, 17:12
I don't know about you guys but at level 18 nothing beats a zealot. With decent equipment my 18 zealot was hitting 1.5k max (before reduction) with just under 1k life. I could have easily been doing 2.5k max with better equipment and had even more life with better charms. Fully twinked I imagine that an 18 zealot could hit 1.1k life and 3k max damage.
As per your elemental kicker idea. Max block + max res. Need I say more?
I don't know about you guys but at level 18 nothing beats a zealot. With decent equipment my 18 zealot was hitting 1.5k max (before reduction) with just under 1k life. I could have easily been doing 2.5k max with better equipment and had even more life with better charms. Fully twinked I imagine that an 18 zealot could hit 1.1k life and 3k max damage.
As per your elemental kicker idea. Max block + max res. Need I say more?
Well, I think most of the assassin talk has been geared more towards a level 9 than an 18. I agree with you that zealots are among the best level 18 duelers, but as with any build, it has its weakness(s), namely a jabber. Uninterruptable jab, passives, an equally well equipped jabber should almost always come out on top.
3k max seems a tad high for a level 18, unless you're including 50% DS from clegs?
Edit: While high resists would obviously negate the lightning kicker being discusses, who actually carries +light resist in their invintory at level 18... I know I dont.
-Matt
inanefedaykin
06-02-2006, 20:45
Keep in mind, I'm talking about using ed/max jeweled armor, helm, 65ed shield with ed/maxes, 15ed +3 zeal +3 conc with 5xed/max jewels, max/ar charms. 3k seems very possible.
Keep in mind, I'm talking about using ed/max jeweled armor, helm, 65ed shield with ed/maxes, 15ed +3 zeal +3 conc with 5xed/max jewels, max/ar charms. 3k seems very possible.
The only way I see you getting it is either going to level 21 and using Sharps/fines, OR if you're including deadly strike in the calculation. Without going to 21, you're not going to get 3k listed. It MAY be possible if you go for all max charms, but that would be a terrible idea considering that the life bonus you can get from 15 life smalls would be too much to pass up for the low +max avaliable at 18. If you want to go for max charms, and are talking ideal gear, go to 21, and use fine smalls of sustinence.
So no, you're not getting 3k listed at level 18 with that setup. Dont get me wrong, its very nice, I'm a big zealot fan, but you're still not gettin 3k.
-Matt
This thread is ALL misinformation. I am one of the top LLDers in the game (I'm not bragging just trying to give this post some credibility) and have spent thousands upon thousands of HRs on my LLDs. Here are my rankings.
Level 9 is easy to rank IMO:
1. Jabber
2. TS sin
3. Sac pally
4. Sac barb
5. Bash barb
6. Kicker
Smiter and sac necro are also among the top but both are considered BM. Sac necro with golem/armor recast and amp is basically unbeatable.
Level 15:
1. Glitch throw pally
2. Glitch throw barb
3. Smiter
4. Ice blast sorc
5. Zealer
6. Kicker
Level 18:
Hard to say since pretty much every 18 is a zealot, but a good hammerdin or necro would be best IMO. Of course the duels wouldn't be fun since you would only run/shoot vs. zealots as they would be your only competition. A godly conc barb could hit ~4k def and be as good as a zealot as well. You see an occasional kicker but they don't stand a chance vs. a good zealot.
Level 30 is too hard to do numerical rankings:
Top tier: Spirit nec, Hammerdin, FBall sorc, Charger, WW barb
Second tier: Light sorc, Blizz sorc, Wind druid, Fury druid, Bowazon, Trapper.
Third tier: Smiter, Zealot, Conc barb, FOHer, CS zon
Fourth Tier: Warcry barb, Kicker, Thrower.
Jerkazoid
24-02-2006, 07:01
id agree with 95% of the info.
k, can someone help me out on how that lvl 9 jabber will be beating TS assa's and what kind of gear i'd be looking at?
Jabber gear is like any other vlld's gear, it's all about getting good jewels. Getting an eth/rep/ias throwing spear is the really hard part, you can try imbuing eth tspears but it could take a really long time before you get a good one.
eth/rep/ias tspear, preferrably with ed/ar/max
4 sock ancient armor 4x max/-req jewel
3 sock mask 3x good jewel
Deaths belt
Deaths gloves or Bloodfists (I prefer Deaths)
ar/stat/rep/life rings
stat/ar/rep/life/dtm ammy
2 socket vulpine bone shield of deflecting or 3 socket large shield with good jewels
10fhr 3dex boots, 15 AR would be nice but it's very hard to find a pair with all 3 mods.
9 Jab
4 Dodge
6 Crit
1 Inner sight
Some things to note:
Jabbers need a LOT of mana and DTM. My jabber has 85 mana 33 dtm.
Since Jab is a skill that has low ED and there are no other ED boosting skills, ED jewels are effective on this build. Putting ED/other mod jewels in your shield is a cheap and effective alternative to paying for godly maxers.
You can use a 3 socket large shield on this build and only need 1 extra point in dex to hit max block. You lose 1 frame of blocking speed from a VBSoD, but since jab is uninterruptable this isn't a big issue.
I use a jeweled bow and arrows on switch for the occasional duel vs a 15 fissure druid or something of that nature. 80 tspears usually won't be enough to throw in a duel like this.
faceinthecrowd
16-03-2006, 07:18
Kicker galore here hahaha....Theyd max talon and put the rest into bos. Lvl 9's would use a crushflange/gnasher, nagels, anything with decent def. 12-18 would use sig boots (hi dmg), flange/gnasher, death gloves/sash, angelic armor/rings/ammy
No friend Zangeif, a lot of the comments and builds here in this thread comes from Hardcore players, where number 9, the LLD kicker, is not viable, nor is the smiter, the ice blast sorc, or the 15 kicker, or the hammerdin. Level 9 jabbers are cute but no thanx too, unless you have superiour expensive gear.
As for the thrower barbie... well, I agree on that, but I'm the only one that makes em on HC... at least, I rarely see them at such low levels. Never mind that I usually kill everyone I meet with them ;)
This thread is ALL misinformation. I am one of the top LLDers in the game (I'm not bragging just trying to give this post some credibility) and have spent thousands upon thousands of HRs on my LLDs. Here are my rankings.
Level 9 is easy to rank IMO:
1. Jabber
2. TS sin
3. Sac pally
4. Sac barb
5. Bash barb
6. Kicker
Smiter and sac necro are also among the top but both are considered BM. Sac necro with golem/armor recast and amp is basically unbeatable.
Level 15:
1. Glitch throw pally
2. Glitch throw barb
3. Smiter
4. Ice blast sorc
5. Zealer
6. Kicker
Level 18:
Hard to say since pretty much every 18 is a zealot, but a good hammerdin or necro would be best IMO. Of course the duels wouldn't be fun since you would only run/shoot vs. zealots as they would be your only competition. A godly conc barb could hit ~4k def and be as good as a zealot as well. You see an occasional kicker but they don't stand a chance vs. a good zealot.
Level 30 is too hard to do numerical rankings:
Top tier: Spirit nec, Hammerdin, FBall sorc, Charger, WW barb
Second tier: Light sorc, Blizz sorc, Wind druid, Fury druid, Bowazon, Trapper.
Third tier: Smiter, Zealot, Conc barb, FOHer, CS zon
Fourth Tier: Warcry barb, Kicker, Thrower.
uhm i dont get that list, how teh hell to charger get on top tier when anyone who actually thinks has max block?
PhatTrumpet
16-03-2006, 22:13
9 Jab
4 Dodge
6 Crit
1 Inner sight
You tell everyone else their advice blows, claim to be some godly LLDer, yet you max Jab instead of Critical Strike? Unless the added attack rating is absoultely necessary, I'm going to have to call you out on that one.
9%ED + 27%AR > 8% crit for most vlld duels. That is why you put 9 in jab. The AR is necessary and the 9% ED is more relevant than you might think. On an all 14max build, 9%ED will be like another 6max jewel.
My advice may suck for HC - I don't care as I don't play HC and I didn't write this for HC.
Rabbitz - Any caster will be running all the time - this means 25% block. Against melee, you can just charge, then charge away and own everything. And obviously desynch is a huge asset in LLD.
If anyone disagrees and is on USEast NL, I will be happy to 10-0 you with any of my vllds. They do not lose. Maybe that will prove my credibility. PM me for a duel - I'll guarantee 10-0 now.
PhatTrumpet
17-03-2006, 05:01
Nevermind... I had some numbers but they used some bad info for str/dex bonus from javs.
Barbs and pallies both hit over 1k def in vlld. The AR is definately needed.
Oops you edited your post while I was posting this.
Casters don't run vs chargers, or any good ones at least. And besides, assuming it's a pure charger:
Fire or Bliz sorc will beat the charger's normal setup by either playing extremely offensively or defensively, chargers have terrible resist with typical gear and 75 is not enough vs a fire sorc. The only way the charger wins is if it uses +max fire resist or excessive cold resist.
Necro will tear it apart by trailing it with bone spirits and using spear once it's close. Only way the charger wins is by luck, desync does nothing. One can just hide in a house or make bone walls in a corner, what can the charger do? He even has a less of a chance to win if the nec uses bone prison.
Hammerdins can just make a field by charging into their own hammers. The charger will die just attempting to hit it. I can see the charger winning, but not as much as it dies.
I don't even see how it can beat a WW barb...
Pure charger isn't top tier IMO, second tier if anything.
RetroStar
17-03-2006, 06:17
yeah, Zangief is a crazy us east nl llder. i'll say one of the top.
but his llders havn't been able to kill my lvl 90 ww baba yet. :shocked:
zan, with 9 into jab....its gonna cost a lot of mana, why not just put 9 in inner sight for the -def?
The amount of damage a charger will do is massive. The amount of damage that a blizz or fire sorc will do to a properly equipped charger is very small. Good chargers have 95 fire resist and 85 cold resist with a lot of stacked res. If they trade hits, even with block, the charger will win easily. A charger is also one of the best choice against a necro, you can easily land charges without getting hit by bone spirits. WW will be almost impossible to beat, but there is no build that beats everything. Many people think that a charger is the absolute strongest level 30 build, which is why chargers are restricted to level 27 on LLD101.
Mana is definately an issue for vlld jabbers which is why you need a decent mana pool and dtm on your gear. My jabber has 85 mana and 33 dtm and I have never run out in a duel.
Your argument for a charger being better than a sorc was already covered in my post so you just wasted your time.
A charger will not beat a necro, sure it's easy to dodge spirits but it's not as easy to dodge them after being hit by bone spears. Find one using bone walls or even prison and you will soon see that a bone necro is superior to a charger.
I question your experience with using and fighting chargers, these strategies to beat them are not uncommon. And you say a caster will run during the fight, which is completely bogus unless you only fight crappy people.
I'm not saying that chargers can't be good, but how are they top tier if they can't beat any of the top tier classes minus the fireball sorc, which they can only win if they put on +max resist.
Well you're wrong, chargers do beat necros. I don't know what else to tell you. I duel the best llders in the game and the general consensus among anyone that knows what they are doing is that chargers are top tier. It might not make sense the way you're playing the duel out in your head but in reality chargers are godly.
Ok, think what you will. If these so-called best players on East can't even kill a charger with a necro when they can completely stop the charger from ever even getting close to hitting them, then I'm glad I'm on West because that's just terrible. Come on, they have a 25% chance to hit even if they get close which should be very rare. I guess you just never fought someone who could use bone walls.
And in case you're wondering I do use a charger and am very successful with it. Only difference is that I fight people who actually know how to win, not just some chumps with a bunch of good items.
I guess you just never fought someone who could use bone walls.
I guess you've never fought someone who knows how to use charge.
Ok...
All you've basically said is "chargers are godly" without any evidence to prove so. There's no way charge can get around bone walls without taking dmg, and even if they through them they are going to die or miss 75% of the time. I haven't even taken bone prison into consideration which would completely obliterate any chance a charger could win, even moreso than bone walls. But of course I suppose you're so good with charge that you can't get trapped in it.
This discussion is over. Theres no point in trying to convince someone who, for one reason or another, hasn't had enough experience with the topic to understand.
DarkMousy
18-03-2006, 01:04
lvl 30 caster killer kicker was my fav. lld character. Not cheap though =(.
Fart, who are you, I know the good llders on west too.
Ask around about Ram on West.
Jerkazoid
18-03-2006, 03:41
iv never heard of ram
who are you?
I won't say my account name but you know me, just not by that name. Besides, you haven't been on forever.
Anyone who joins public games has probably seen me.
DarkMousy
18-03-2006, 06:03
Wall doesn't do **** too a good desynch charger.
[img=http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7100/screenshot0070jn.th.jpg] (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0070jn.jpg)
What's he gonna do? Desync to inside the walls?
[img=http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7100/screenshot0070jn.th.jpg] (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot0070jn.jpg)
What's he gonna do? Desync to inside the walls?
lol... all i gotta say is...owned
What's he gonna do? Desync to inside the walls?
How about not going near the necro until he stops being ***?
By your logic a hammerdin will never beat a necro as they can never get close either LOL.
faceinthecrowd
23-03-2006, 06:42
How about not going near the necro until he stops being ***?
By your logic a hammerdin will never beat a necro as they can never get close either LOL.
You don't get out much to dueling bone necros do you? Make a good hamdin or chargy on west lad and ask around for no_fair. I'm sure he'd love to decrep+prison you, then spear you like a lil fishy :D.
faceinthecrowd
23-03-2006, 06:43
Also, maybe ask for rifa or rifador. I'm sure his foh/smite lvl 30 would love to mop up any of your tier 1 chars.
LOL @ decrep - I don't duel pubs.
theredpredator
24-03-2006, 19:49
I got a boner(necro that is ofc lol), and he doesnt lose against chargers. 2 walls in front fo you. Spam spirits, he comes tele a little aroun the walls and keep spamming when close enough prison and collect the money.
As for necros being *** for using bone wall... bull****. What are we supposed to do? bend over and wait for a charger to hit us with a desynching attack?
As im a necro i ise walls and prison. Dont like it? ur problem. If ur really that godly as you say you are youl just charge threw the walls and kick my ***. Untill then, cry.
I never said I have a problem with bone wall or prison.
GL blocking a charger with bonewalls and running away when they hit you and aren't even on your screen.
theredpredator
24-03-2006, 23:59
I never said I have a problem with bone wall or prison.
GL blocking a charger with bonewalls and running away when they hit you and aren't even on your screen.
Firstly, I dont run. i tele. And second. I havent been killed by a charger yet in a 1 vs 1 duel.
LOL, you've never dueled a good charger. Anyone decent will just switch to insight and charge away until you run out of tele charges.
Then the real duel begins.
theredpredator
25-03-2006, 14:54
LOL, you've never dueled a good charger. Anyone decent will just switch to insight and charge away until you run out of tele charges.
Then the real duel begins.
tele charges? i got enigma. The duel continues..
Do you understand we are talking about level 30 characters?
LOL what an idiot.
Do you understand we are talking about level 30 characters?
LOL what an idiot.
*cough* 9<30 *cough*
I know 9 is less than 30, what is your point?
I know 9 is less than 30, what is your point?
o...huh....i didnt remeber typing < ...i meant -
The debate for the last few pages has been over the effectiveness of a level 30 charger
zang, i used to vlld on west with a javzon, would you mind giving me some pointers since i've stopped for a year and started back up on east?
I posted a jabber build on page 4.
It's pretty much all about the quality of your jewels which can be quite expensive. I've paid 120 sojs for a vlld jewel in the past.
Getting a good eth/rep/ias tspear is very hard too.
nice, thanks
edit - what do you suggest stat wise?
55 dex to use tspears, or 56 if you use a 3 sock large shield to hit 75%.
40 str to use -60 ancient, or another option is -60req gothic plate and 3 sock large shield with one of the jewels having -req lets you go 29 str.
Rest into vit.
theredpredator
27-03-2006, 11:01
Do you understand we are talking about level 30 characters?
LOL what an idiot.
I did not. I was just talking about my experience on chargers. And dont lol me idiot again, i mean it.
No problem, try reading either the title or a single post in the thread next time.
LowLevelDueler
27-04-2006, 11:36
www.lld101.com has everything you would ever want to know about low level dueling plus trading forums and more
faceinthecrowd
28-04-2006, 22:45
MORE site whoring. Anyway, Zang, I'm sorry but max block sorta asks a charger to hold its ankels or retie its shoe laces. A necro should kill any charger unless the necro is busy twiddling his fingers.
Sorry random guy who has probably never LLDed but a defensive charger is 100% unkillable for any necro.
Sorry random guy who has probably never LLDed but a defensive charger is 100% unkillable for any necro.
Erm, not so much. Sure, if the necro is going to play like an idiot, and go running after the charger he'll die. I think for the sake of argument, we're going to give the necro the slightest bit of common sense. If he's playing a charger whose playing very defensively, our necro is going to throw up a couple well placed bone walls and start tossin bone spirits at the charger. Necro with BS surrounded in walls should beat a charger. Best case (best for the charger that is...) is that he plays a very defensive duel, and basically stays out of range of the necros BS attacks. He simply cant hit him, because hes surrounded by walls, and if he tries to get close enough to hit the walls and then the necro, he'll be skewered by spears, and chased off by spirits.
And no, I'm not a "random guy who has never llded before". I've made both chargers and necros at and around that level, and dueled the other with each.
-Matt
You also think 31 is LLD so I give you no credit.
A necro can never kill a charger because of prayer and rep life. I'm talking about high end LLD duels, not pubby killer builds.
It takes more than 1 spear to kill a charger LOL.
You also think 31 is LLD so I give you no credit.
A necro can never kill a charger because of prayer and rep life. I'm talking about high end LLD duels, not pubby killer builds.
It takes more than 1 spear to kill a charger LOL.
You're going to need a better excuse than that to give me no credit, if you'd really that concerned about it, go ask around the hardcore forum, I've been LLDing on hardcore for a long time.
In "high end LLD duels", the necromancer is not going to be running after the charger, particularly if its an extremely defensive one. I never said it took only 1 spear to kill a charger, I said if a charger decided to try and break through the necromancer's bonewall sanctuary, he'd get speared and bone spirited outta there.
Sure, a necromancer cant kill a charger who runs away whenever hes onscreen, if the criteria is "can stay alive while hostile to someone in the blood moor" just about any chacter can be made immune to anything without teleport. However, if we're talking an actual duel, the necro is going to come out on top. It comes down to this, the charger has nothing in the way of ranged attacks (and if he did, the necros would be both more accurate (spirit) and powerful). The necro on the other hand has bone walls to surround himself and the charger if he gets within range, decrepify to slow him down, and bone spear/spirit to kill him.
You're saying I'm the one with no credibility, continue to argue that a good level 30 charger will beat a good level 30 necromancer, it's really helping your case.:rolleyes:
-Matt
You also think 31 is LLD so I give you no credit.
A necro can never kill a charger because of prayer and rep life. I'm talking about high end LLD duels, not pubby killer builds.
It takes more than 1 spear to kill a charger LOL.
That's plenty! Matt is a VERY capable HC dueller, and he knows damned well what he's talking about. As for the Necro vs Charger debate: Sloppy Necros die, good necros are unbeatable without a ranged attack. I've lobbed off a fair share of HC ears myself, and from personal experience (using a charger to kill people from 2002 to feb 2006) I can GUARANTEE you that a good necro is pretty much unbeatable.
Now, have a nice day. And be VERY carefull about what you say next.
How about not going near the necro until he stops being ***?
And just so that we are clear on this subject: You sir, are a biased fool who makes very, very, very dumb comments.
HC LLD duels are completely different.
The setups are garbage and everyone s/e's when they get low.
PhatTrumpet
02-05-2006, 18:56
Those "garbage" setups are what win duels and get ears in HC. If you tried most of your setups on HC you'd probably get laughed at. Yes they're completely different, so maybe instead of calling our setups "garbage" you could simply say, "they don't work on SC," else you incite another HC vs. SC flame war.
Maybe some guy shouldn't tell me what works in SC based on what works in HC. I've already stated that I'm not talking about HC earlier in the thread. High end LLD is obviously something that very few people on this forum know about.
A HC necro can use pcrown, spirit, vmagi, rhyme nec head, 15 lifers and lose little effectiveness compared to a SC build.
The charger won't have 3/20/15s and 24max jewels though.
Thanks Baranor :)
Zang, I think this little debate is over... we've gone from actually debating something to you resorting to "well, uhh, your builds all suck, and none of you know what you're talking about because I say so" If you've got anything you'd like to actually debate, by all means, post it.
EDIT: and what if he does have those? He WILL have 15 life SC's on HC, though you're right most dont have a lot of nice dual modded charms. However, the point still stands, the necro is going to be protected by his bone walls, the charger will still be 1hitting the bonewalls, whether he has dual mod charms or not, and his life will be very much the same in either case. While he's trying to break down the walls, the necro will be skewering him with spears. I'm not seeing what difference dual mod jewels and charms on the charger make in this case, its not as though the bone walls are too high damage to KO in either case, and neither one adds more life than you'd find on a HC charger. Fact remains, he'll get dominated trying to break past the walls, and he still has no viable ranged attack, and the necromancer does.
-Matt
No. The fact remains when he gets to 1/3 he will charge away and be back at full life in less than a minute.
This is how every duel vs. a charger goes.
Eventually he will desynch enough to hit you when he isn't even on your screen.
No. The fact remains when he gets to 1/3 he will charge away and be back at full life in less than a minute.
This is how every duel vs. a charger goes.
Eventually he will desynch enough to hit you when he isn't even on your screen.
I thought you were all about "only good mannered duels, following these guidelines, anything outside that doesnt really count, because its all BM". Call me crazy, but I'd consider running away whenever you're at 1/3rd life to go play with flavie while you've got prayer on, and then desynching like mad pretty BM. However, unless our necromancer is not the brightest fellow, he'll likely still notice his bonewalls crumbling as the desynching charger tries to break through them, and begin spamming spirits at him.
-Matt
YouHaveMail
03-05-2006, 02:41
Yeah I can vouch for matt, baranor, pt, and other HC players as some pretty well-known LLDers.
In the past I've taken some chargers out there against necros, and I fear for my life heh. I know it's not a smart duel, but it's fun. Once you go out, the necro will just BP you. If not during your charge when you get in range, he can just BP you rigth there, or wall you. And running away at 1/3? It should take only a few spears/spirits to kill you, and while trapped in that BP, and decrep'd, good luck charging outta there that fast.
HAHAHHAHA NOOBS
DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT REALL LLD IS ABOUT??
DRUID SUMMONERS ARE DA GOD135t bu1d ev3r!!
so l333t
Before you fight always have a lvl 60 enchant ur minions
Get heart of the wolverine, spirit wolves, ravens, and you'll PRAWN EVERYONE. Use a teleport ammy and NAMELOCK. Necro can't touch you just keep casting wolves on him when he spirits them to death!! OMG ROXXOR.
AND DEN you can take turn into a werebear and shockwave necro's/chargers and LOCK them with your FURRY FRIENDSSS.
GFG dearest, how bout that. . .
:wave: Sorry for this post, there is no other interesting topic in the forum I haven't commented on yet and btw JUST so you know. . . (the only LLD i've ever done in my life is when i tried to inferno my friend at lvl 16 cuz the LCS said I did hella dmg)
edit: it's 1:00 in the morning and I still have some notes to finish
No. The fact remains when he gets to 1/3 he will charge away and be back at full life in less than a minute.
This is how every duel vs. a charger goes.
Eventually he will desynch enough to hit you when he isn't even on your screen.
*yawn*
Say, is the sun shining outside Matt? It sure is here... weather is nice, and even better, my desk is located opposite to not one but two very lovely young ladies.
OK, why don't you go to the LLD forum I shouldn't mention here but everyone should know, post a topic in one of the appropriate forums there and ask if a charger is top tier LLD.
You will get your answer from people that know what they are talking about rather than HLDers who made a LLD necro for 5 sojs once.
Mmm, lemmie see now, I'd rather trust my own evidence. Do I have the right to trust said evidence? Well, I dunno, I carved off roughly 1730 hardcore ears varying from level 9 to 74, with my own characters variying from level 9 to 32. Judge for yourself.
Did I mention the fact yet that I think you, sir, are an idiot who makes sexually biased comments? No? Good! You sire, are an idiot who makes sexually biased comments. No matter what you say, your relevance, indeed wholesale intelligence is in doubt if you think making said sexually biased comments is fine. Apart from that, a necromancer using his bonewalls to lock himself in is lame, but runing off to heal with prayer is not? Blabla, so long, bye bye, move along. Pot, meet kettle, etcetera.
HC players have so little experience dueling, it's hilarious that they even attempt to argue. When I log onto D2 I'm immediately in a LLD dueling game with the top duelers on East. We duel over and over again perfecting our dueling strategies and learning how to duel vs. various classes. You can't do that on HC. After the rare scenario that you kill another top LLDer, you have to wait months for him to rebuild before you can duel again.
1730 ears is a couple days of dueling to me. Now how many of those ears belonged to godly level 30 characters? All of mine are.
Don't bring up experience when you play on HC.
I said charging away and healing is what a good charger will do AGAINST a lame decrep necro who bonewalls himself in. They wouldn't do it in a GM duel. Of course it's always easy to charge around with the intention of desynching while healing 100 life every couple seconds and make it look GM.
HC players have so little experience dueling, it's hilarious that they even attempt to argue. When I log onto D2 I'm immediately in a LLD dueling game with the top duelers on East. We duel over and over again perfecting our dueling strategies and learning how to duel vs. various classes. You can't do that on HC. After the rare scenario that you kill another top LLDer, you have to wait months for him to rebuild before you can duel again.
1730 ears is a couple days of dueling to me. Now how many of those ears belonged to godly level 30 characters? All of mine are.
Don't bring up experience when you play on HC.
I said charging away and healing is what a good charger will do AGAINST a lame decrep necro who bonewalls himself in. They wouldn't do it in a GM duel. Of course it's always easy to charge around with the intention of desynching while healing 100 life every couple seconds and make it look GM.
I highly doubt you get 1730 ears in "a couple of days", but regardless, its a different ballgame. In hardcore, VERY few of those 1730 people Baranor has killed were dueling to the death, the vast majority were not looking to die. You're dueling people who will duel to the death. Imagine if whenever you're about to win a duel, people either chicken (which IS frowned upon in hardcore duels, and none of us you're arguing with use it, but go ahead and take your predictable jabs about "all hc llders chicken") or quit. Bottom line, every duel in SC ends with an ear for someone, it's simply not comperable.
I honestly wish I had a LLDer on the same realm/gametype that you have, I always find it amusing when someone who has never experienced hardcore llding tries to say we have "so little experience". Quite the opposite, every duel we have could be our last, the learning curve is quite steep, and you're forced to learn what you're doing and how to survive against, and kill a variety of other well built LLDers. I'd also argue that for the most part, private dueling leagues and such aside, hardcore duelers are going to be better prepared, it'd be a waste to duel with anything other than a well built, finished character, else you're just asking to die when you duel someone who is.
Now, I've got no problem with SC LLDers, this isin't about that silly hc vs sc debate, I'm not claiming that HC duelers are better duelers than SC, I really think its simply different, but to say we have so little dueling experience, dont know what we're talking about, all that jazz, its simply incorrect.
For all this talk of "perfecting strategy", its seeming more and more like you're suggesting the necromancer in our little scenario should be just standing there shooting things at the charger waiting to be flattened by the first charge. Hmm, good strategy:shocked: Are you honestly suggesting that the necromancer should not use his bonewalls and/or prison, and sit there in the open waiting for a charger to KO him? Nobody's arguing that a charger isint capable of KOing a necromancer, I'm arguing that is the necromancer has the slightest bit of common sense, he wont give the paladin an opprotunity to do so.
-Matt
Decrep is BM.
Bonewalling yourself into a corner with 5inch thick walls is BM.
Of course the nec should be running around and using bonewalls.
Well, as far as I can see, this is more of an "if you duel the way I want you to duel, and dont do anything which would cause me to not be able to kill you, I'll be able to kill you" type thing.
No.
If you duel BM it's fine with me. You won't be able to kill me either as I can just charge away and regen.
That just isn't much fun though.
Lol. 2 years of sc duelling and 3 years of hc duelling. Nope, sorry, i dont have ANY duelling experience. None whatsoever. I'm just a clueless newbie, blinded by the great light and knowledge that is Zangeif.
Whatever gives you the idea HC duellers are not twinked beyond their teeth? Every single dueller on hc is a clueless newbie.
Goodbye.
ow, and as for your ears:
my charlevels:
9-32
ears from 9 to 74.
I'm sure you'll notice the teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeny level difference.
:thumbsup:
74 is your highest kill with a LLD? That's pretty low.
PhatTrumpet
03-05-2006, 23:42
Sorry, but I have to chime in here.
Matt and Barry: his point about SC vs. HC dueling experience is actually valid to an extent. Even the most dedicated HC dueler is not going to have as much experience as an avid SC dueler. Why?
For one, the nature of SC is more supportive of attaining dueling experience. You never lose gear, you never lose charms, and you never really have to spend much time looking for a duel since the community is so much larger. This nets you much more time to fool around, experiment, and find out exactly what tactics work and how best to execute those tactics.
On HC you lose gear which you have to replace (unless you always have a loot mule on a second computer), you lose charms which you have to replace, and you spend at least half of your remaining time just trying to find a duel thanks to all the botting/maphacking lamers out there. Even if you botted all your wealth at night while you slept you wouldn't be able to amass the dueling experience you could attain on SC, and just because the stakes are higher doesn't mean the experience you do gain is necessarily any more valuable. To really argue the experience issue you'd probably have to talk about time spent either loot-sparring on HC or dueling on SC.
74 is your highest kill with a LLD? That's pretty low.
It really isn't if you consider how careful HC players are once that hostile siren goes off. Getting a hit in is enough of an achievement; getting an ear is practically unheard of.
Lol. 2 years of sc duelling and 3 years of hc duelling. Nope, sorry, i dont have ANY duelling experience. None whatsoever. I'm just a clueless newbie, blinded by the great light and knowledge that is Zangeif.
Whatever gives you the idea HC duellers are not twinked beyond their teeth? Every single dueller on hc is a clueless newbie.
Goodbye.
ow, and as for your ears:
my charlevels:
9-32
ears from 9 to 74.
I'm sure you'll notice the teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeny level difference.
:thumbsup:
duel on SC for proper duellers cos they dont lose their equip after they die, my lvl 9 assas highest kill: 84 ama i lost my assa though cos i didnt play d2 in about a year but im back with a lvl 9 barb aiming for 1k dmg 400 life 600 defense 75% block (OFC) if u want to know how 1k damage consider this: 6 socket war axe filled with 17-20 ed 9 max jewels = 30-110 dmg or so level req = 9 ofc, same in armour + helm or 14 max's 2 in shield with 30 fbr sigons shield in switch for +1 skill, 5 str amu (mines got 20 ar ^^) and a few 3 str charms with the masses of life ones and occasional fhr gc, current highest kill with him 4x noob, pretty poor but hes just started ^_^
A 9/9/1/1 bash barb can only get around mid 700s max dmg assuming you aren't pumping str for the % dmg increase.
Sac barbs can get over 1000 but the repair costs are annoying.
My basher is 660 max, 630 life, 729 def, 2086AR
Well I see you're using a war axe, that would probably get you in the 800s, but the extra frame on a pick is much more important.
duel on SC for proper duellers cos they dont lose their equip after they die, my lvl 9 assas highest kill: 84 ama i lost my assa though cos i didnt play d2 in about a year but im back with a lvl 9 barb aiming for 1k dmg 400 life 600 defense 75% block (OFC) if u want to know how 1k damage consider this: 6 socket war axe filled with 17-20 ed 9 max jewels = 30-110 dmg or so level req = 9 ofc, same in armour + helm or 14 max's 2 in shield with 30 fbr sigons shield in switch for +1 skill, 5 str amu (mines got 20 ar ^^) and a few 3 str charms with the masses of life ones and occasional fhr gc, current highest kill with him 4x noob, pretty poor but hes just started ^_^
I highly doubt you killed an 84 amazon with your level 9, and if you did, he surely was naked, or might as well have been. Your AR at level 9 is simply too low to hit an 84, unless, as I said before, he was naked and AFK or something. I've dueled much higher levels with my LLDers as well (highest ear with a sub 30 is somewhere in the 80's, silly MF sorceresses thinking they wont die when a good level 27 charger hits them...), so I'm not just guessing or something... Now, I know level 9's are quite capable of dueling (and beating) PvMers into their 40's, and the occasional 50's character, but when you're killing an 84, I have a very hard time believing that he was fighting back...
-Matt
billybadarse
20-08-2008, 21:39
uhhh . . . hehe im gonna have to go with zangief's advice on this one . . . lol. from my experience zangiefs advice seems right on. Friggin' chargers seem to own most at lvl 18-33. I could imagine a pimped-out ww barb beating zangief's charger maybe. Now, concerning fart's boner necro, I would love to see u try to duel zangief's charger . . . lol. ill take the day off work to see: . . . 1) u talk nonsense 2) u step outside town gate 3) zangief wait patuiently for u to set up bonewalls , bone prison, and w/e else makes u feel safe and 4) zangief charge thru ur bone wall and toast u in 1 hit . . . .lol.
Oh, wait i would only need to take a 5minute break to see fart's boner get broken several times , . . . hehe.:whistling:
billybadarse
20-08-2008, 22:02
y not say ur acct name??
Uncle_Mike
20-08-2008, 22:05
y not say ur acct name??
Why bump threads from 2006?
:closed:
ps. double posting is generally frowned upon here.
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