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hiroshimana
30-01-2006, 17:49
***First dont fight me if u got a constructive or destructive coment ill carefully read it and see what i can do about it if you send it in a PM. This guide is long and mostley a rare would always be better and it wont be cheap. also my dueling facts may seem ridiculous but they have work on me and I am doing a research for upgrading them so the dueling methods you see here would be upgraded and with some luck they will acomplish being perfect :P.***

If you are reading this i bet you it covered your attention when you first saw and dont say no because, guess what? You still reading. I bought Diablo 2 December 6 in Canada, 2000, and since my first character i liked it more than any other game. As you may notice Diablo 2 isnt a (what i would call) restricted game as WoW(Maybe now you know what i mean) but it is open as for what we call nk's...(thats just an example) What im trying to get is than since patch 1.01 since I started playing b.net i always had this feeling that IMO most people everywhere has, of competition. Sometimes i win, but sometimes i loose. Is it posible to avoid loosing? Yes but, you wont feel as great after a time, YOU wont feel you are in that competition again. But still we always want to win, or at least in my case... After years of practicing and many diferent characters done by myself(most of them with h*cks) Ive seem to come with the only Diablo 2 character that may what we say own all the other classes in a 1v1 duel or maybe with luck and rare items on 7v1. Also am doing this because i wont be on the closed side of b.net since ill be in what in this forums you cant talk about much open. Yes im crazy but guess what i like it im the only player ive seen on open that actually knows how to hex items so im taking that advantage to own it :P.(dont erase this post for that plz :P)

Said this, the character i'll be talking about is a pvall barb...Was that surprising? Of course it wasnt... Now ill take my time to explain in each class how can a barb defeat other characaters...(to this u need skill and pratice and lots of items; also in this first post am just pointing out how to win in a duel but yet i wont post skills attributes or items. I still need a truthful source to offer me each equation involving a dueling...from penalties to blocking math so i can come out with each single part...this may even take me months but i started it so what the heck)

Amazons: This are known for patch 1.08 and there godly bows. They dont have them any more but still they can win u easily if they want to, Unfortunately a barb has a skill advantage from this class, that is, Increase Speed. after you get it to lvl 5 or so it sure be more than enough to be able to win her in a race so how u kill a bow zon?(i need to get pics but i need a friend from here so we conect in IP adress so i can take pics :)) this would need a pic to explain but you gotta name lock th bowzon, yes lock it with normal attack so you follow her and wait dont even get ur mouse out of her yet. When u are close enough if she has played before with a bowzon he would act like a human meaning he will change her direction. A sec before this you gotta predict when she is gonna do this and change name lock to ww lock hey but dont loose her there u gotta name lock her again on case she escapes with little life...after some pratcice, ezzz kill. then comes the javazon with only one attack that she may run and do but if you do the same thing before of ust get her surrounded she is killed to. Thats it for zons.(more on how to duel this character later.)

Necromancers: this is the easiest of all since we only gotta take care of one part, the bonemancer. this after playing with them all this ladder i finally have come to kill some and here is the most important detail: i got a 1.9 procesor(eny cheap pc or old one has) and i installed a 1gb ram plus a cheap internet and unless my internet server is down most likely, i dont lag. why is that? RAM is all about speed and having a low procesor increase it mores since the same procesor wont be needing much of ur ram. why 1gb? ust to be sure u may use 700 if u dont haver 150 cash and itll come cheaper. this hasnt end though a necromancer still may kill you so what you do? tank him depending on the situation. yes tank him. thats the only resonable way of killing a necromancer but how? first since they would try killing u with bspirits and cages just run with your left click on leap and right on ww when u cage press shift and when u see he disapears from your map you gotta go and tank him leaping cuze he will cage u. by this time you wont have Iron Maiden and if he has caged himself then its ezz kill go leap on his head and then use berserker (if he cast IM on you)on him mostly he would hit you and if u see no progress leap on him like a ***** till u got IM off or nec walls go, it would work. if he is not caged himself go and ww lock him why? first you must do this very close because then he will wait till u ww in a line so he dodges you and the cast a bone wall but guess what u ww locked and hitted him so if you dont lag bye this mosment, in this microsecond u gotta tank ww like a ***** cuze when u ww lock him he wiull be hitted and a bit stuned and theres ur chance. (more on how to duel this character later.)(to much use of the word B*stard Oo)

Sorceres: This character it my nature :P. First lightning sorces, get a bh and lr shield and ww lock gf. Second Fire sorceres, you a barb so get 4 angelics, hspurs and 40+fr from other parts of gear results as 16 per fball gf. Then, comes the big biatch the orber. never ww lock them, never, u gotta predict there movements. This may sound weird but its true the only way to win a orber efficiently is wait and see how she behaves to then try see where she most likely would teleport and then kill her. takes practices but ive done this with hammerdins and sorcers. another way is ww glitching them, this is mostly luck but ill say a way it most likely will work. get next to one of those ponds in the map and ww lock them if the pond doesnt let you pass most likely with luck you will be able to tele and hit her cuze of this glitch. also for a orber get 90 cr with twitcha try wwing her only when she comes near you. or do what i said no but will be your last source, ww lock >.<, i gotta do research bout this char. Blizz sorc, get a bh 120cr shield twitch and 70 cr w/o that shield and ust ww lock her till you hit her and go again and tank her if you can like i explain ith necs. if you cant keep ww locking. (more on how to duel this character later.)

Paladins: Fohs, this is way to difficult you must stack a total of 70 lr (im gonna use natural resist :) ) and get a 120lr shield. why? this way youll have 40 lr with the best -150 conviction so why risk it? then ww lock the bastard till he dies remember conviction has a radius so if he charges he wont be able to do that much dmg to you as he thinks :). Dins is another of my natured talents IMO because there is no din that w/o using a glitch of this ladd that can own me. they have never done that, ask every channel op faf- op cof op csx etc.(USEast) and this glitches owned me because of my old pc because tele walk isnt afecting me much now is the hammer glitch with charge but if he misses i tank him and his dead :). wat to do in a din? never tank, you gotta wait even though they say zzz or anything you gotta wait. wait the to the mistake a making a hammer in your face or close but also dont be stupid and ww direct into were his other hammers are, try wwing in a direction away from them or even sometimes if he coming from south ww to the east but a long ww so they make the mistake of folowing you and die... it is all about adapting to the way he duels but always play offensive with a din always IMO. (more on how to duel this character later.)

Barbarian: This is the hardest of all since its the only char that is made to kill you. THE BVB. yes, wow! a shield baba with a bh zzzz. This from all the things i said it gonna be shocking, but to win a bvb it all range, yes range. the my only way of ezzz killing a bvb unless u get a bvb gear Ive won to five differet bvbs with this a martel and they using a bh wat do i do i ww in the same direction but i always try to be farther and make short wws till i got it. takes time and u may loose trying at the begining but Ive done it and it can be done, ITS POSSIBLE. to win a mart barb wait for me to do research and a bvc or lance barb plz ust tank him. (more on how to duel this character later.)

Thats it for now let me get a page with all the equations and ill go to work in few weeks youll have a full post of my results on how this pvall will be, but believe me its gonna be great because right now i have 1 and he is great but still it takes mostly my skill to kill people and thats why im trying to avoid need of skilll because it wont be cheap but im trying to make it easier for someone to kill chacters that when they see you theyll think, HAH i won and then theyll loose, ty.

PD:as two old sayings one known the other not known: ''dont judge a book by its cover'' let me do my stuff and they PM me negative stuff bout it and ''That one who fights unceasinly its because he is wrong but he cant sstand being wrong'' so if u fight i would take you as you are wrong.(if u got any page offering a good link or wanna help on at anything just ask)
ThankYou.

fredsta54
30-01-2006, 18:17
Perfect dueler? WW lock doesnt solve all your problems. I know english is not your native language but you should type like this.

A good speedazon will beat ANY barb easily

Gl catching a 110fcr fballer with ww lock

A good orber who stays off screen will own you

All characters you have listed can beat your barb lol.

My pvm "budgetsorc" using full ithara, magic 30/20 20 pris bone, no + skills beat your barb, and you only take away 1/3 life with ww lock








Fred

hiroshimana
30-01-2006, 18:27
First place i said PM please, Second this post wasnt the way You have to duel is my way just giving a opion on what is gonna be a before and after... meaning this is the before get it? yes my english not so good i type fast but I try my best and see my post again and youll see i corrected most mistakes.

about hose characters you just mentioned i can give u as an example PWNTS 91 lvl fballer she had 112 fcr and i won her >.> my gear counts of a perfect 40fr gauntlets a 23fr belt hspurs and angelics she did 16 ddamage to me and she teled and even so i won her because apparently u havent come out that i dont use ww lock for everything i try only using the glitch and as i said on orb i use ww lock as my last try when im about to get killed...

ThankYou for letting me finish i said it more than two times let me finish this before you do any rough coments the dueling ways i just said are my opinion what i do and i dont die much how come you say any character can own me if I myself have seen how i kill this guys?

LukeJames
30-01-2006, 18:37
Why not switch to a 30/20 Shield + Battlehammer for BVB duels?
You aren't restricted to only using Martel in every duel..

fredsta54
30-01-2006, 18:38
I imagine pwnts lvl 91 fballer is not very good, do you beat her every time or just ocassionally?

I still find it hard to read what you say so sorry if i have overlooked everything

I was just making comments because you described your barb as the "perfect" dueler, which it is not

I dont say my sorc owns your barb, i said i can beat your barb using crappy gear, and that your ww lock isnt effective











Fred

Kevin William Cox
30-01-2006, 18:54
I smelled that coming a mile away. Good point Fred, I disagree also. I don't believe there is one all mighty kill all charectar. It's a combination of all the charectars that make the game fun. One build can win a lot of duels BUT it WILL lose to other builds.

You need to post with a little more tact. You come off to people as you know everything and we know nothing. I think you have some knowledge of the game, but you need to work on your communication skills.

Posting and telling people not to comment, good or bad, but to PM you isn't going to cut it here. You have to open yourself to criticism. If your right, people will agree with you, and the ones who disagree will look silly. Respect is earned, not given.

Lastly, like Fred said, I realize that English is not your first language. But I IMPLORE you please use a little more grammer and punctuation. I'm not trying to flame you. I just nearly went blind trying to read your post. I suggest a dictionary by your computer. I always have one right beside mine.





Kev

hiroshimana
30-01-2006, 19:06
Thank You Kev, Fred, Luke. Yes i missed on tact. I dont know everything, (unless I had made the game which I didnt) What i was trying to say with perfect dueler its that it could be a character that may or may not win all the other races not an exact one but all. Luke you may be right but to say that he needs a bh or a mart or a ancient axe or any other weapon i gotta see the good and the bad of it and analyse it which is what I tried to said by saying give me time.

About pwnt if they are supose to have one of the best svs sorce (a blizz one) it means IMO they a good clan and yes i won 4-2 this fballer it was hard but i did and mostly when I try to say my combat tactis I mess it up maybe because of the language because I feel i cant express myself as well or maybe because i kinda try to rush into things. About perfect barb i meant it in a not literally i meant it in a more analitical way but anyways ill change that. And yes, your sorc may own my barb thats another thing i tried to tell on my first post. this character, what i tried to mean is that, is a character im trying to build so it can kill any character with the need of such a good skill because as we all know if you got the skill it doesnt matter which character you use if you know it well you will most likely win thats what i'm trying to do with this a character you can get use because it has the power of killing if you learn how to use it.

ThankYou

I hope that had more tact lol (j/k)

Kevin William Cox
30-01-2006, 19:13
It did. I'd be happy to read more of your ideas, even though I may disagree with them.:thumbsup:




Kev

fledgeling
30-01-2006, 22:57
I always thought that a blizz sorc is the best, however I never duelled a lot and Im not sure about

orb vs ama (teleport?)
orb vs java (teleport?)
orb vs speeder-tank (teleport?)

fohers tend to own me :/ (crappy gear? 192mb of ram)

basically I always thought you can abuse teleport and orb



btw
foh vs java?
java vs necro?
foh vs necro?
good java vs barb? (barb wins?)
light sorc vs java,necro,firesorc, amazon?

hiroshimana
31-01-2006, 01:42
most likely a bowazon(IMO)would be easy owned by a sorc, a javazon with good gear will own a orber and speeder like a iratha one could own a orber too.

i go for foh in foh v java
i go for java in java v nec
i go for nec in foh v nec
i go always for baba :P
a light sorc is a good sorc but you need very good gear : /

i like this commments maybe while i keep doing research people may coment about who IYO would win in a duel.

I have got a question too, never seen this...
FoH v Fballer
FoH v light sorc Oo <-----ive never seen that and lr versus lr seems tough

LukeJames
31-01-2006, 01:49
A good orber should be able to beat a javazon.
After all, javazons main attack point for an orber is Lightning Fury which is not terribly strong.

fredsta54
31-01-2006, 02:50
A good orber should be able to beat a javazon.
After all, javazons main attack point for an orber is Lightning Fury which is not terribly strong.

dont forget farcast

For those of you who dont know what it is, or didnt read my stickied pvp javazon mini guide, farcasting is casting charged strike ranged across a screen. It owns sorcs.








Fred

hiroshimana
31-01-2006, 02:59
That's exactly the reason I said a javazon may own a orber.(If I am not mistaked I dueled once your javazon Dred, I mean Fred :P) Getting back on topic, could anyone answer my questions?

I have got a question too, never seen this...
FoH v Fballer
FoH v light sorc Oo <-----ive never seen that and lr versus lr seems tough

fredsta54
31-01-2006, 03:55
That's exactly the reason I said a javazon may own a orber.(If I am not mistaked I dueled once your javazon Dred, I mean Fred :P) Getting back on topic, could anyone answer my questions?

If the sorc teles on top of the foher and spams the sorc wins. If the sorc doesnt stack and dies 2-3 hits, the foh wins usually







Fred

Immortality
01-02-2006, 04:33
The limitations of orbers:

1. Being teleported ontop of by a orber isn't likely, as an up close orb does zlitch.

2. Stacking cr pretty much totally negates the damage of orb, blizzers still have a chance.

3. Orb explodes on the edge of their screen.



Babas vs Orb: Stack cr, have lots of r/w, wait till they make a mistake.
Java vs Orb: Do the same.

Basicly anything with alot of life can make a duel between an orber REALLY LONG

Dacar92
01-02-2006, 04:58
Whew! Just finished reading this. Hiroshimana, please, you are welcome to post whatever you want to post. As long as your posts do not include anything about hacks, hex's, or whatever. You already mentioned it once. That is the only chance you get. This thread will be closed if you mention it again, or mention the fact thay they flourish on open Bnet.

The guide has stimulated conversation. I am glad for that. Thanks. A guide deserves to be stickied if it generates conversation, questions, or good advice and multiple posts. Just because someone writes a guide, it does not automatically deserve to be stickied, just because it has been written. But even if that happens here, I cannot sticky this or submit it to the Strategy Compendium, unless you rewrite it or have someone do it for you.

You have stimulated conversation. Keep up the good work!

Immortality
01-02-2006, 05:07
Whew! Just finished reading this. Hiroshimana, please, you are welcome to post whatever you want to post. As long as your posts do not include anything about hacks, hex's, or whatever. You already mentioned it once. That is the only chance you get. This thread will be closed if you mention it again, or mention the fact thay they flourish on open Bnet.

The guide has stimulated conversation. I am glad for that. Thanks. A guide deserves to be stickied if it generates conversation, questions, or good advice and multiple posts. Just because someone writes a guide, it does not automatically deserve to be stickied, just because it has been written. But even if that happens here, I cannot sticky this or submit it to the Strategy Compendium, unless you rewrite it or have someone do it for you.

You have stimulated conversation. Keep up the good work!

Your philsophy is just like the courts... "In its opinion the Court blurs the distinction between true and false statements by recharacterizing the latter as a "valuable contribution to the public debate"

Those intelligent design idiots...


I really don't hope that you go back to law school and become a judge.
:smiley:

"Gets onto the tallest bulding in school and loads a rifle round"




:thumbsup:

Dacar92
01-02-2006, 05:09
Your philsophy is just like the courts... "In its opinion the Court blurs the distinction between true and false statements by recharacterizing the latter as a "valuable contribution to the public debate"

Those intelligent design idiots...


I really don't hope that you go back to law school and become a judge.
:smiley:

"Gets onto the tallest bulding in school and loads a rifle round"




:thumbsup:



Ha! What do you mean? I am already a judge. :grin:

hiroshimana
01-02-2006, 05:10
Thank you Dacar. Yes sorry about that and I won't say it again but you should know what i meant. This when i finish what I am doing, will be a guide I'm just trying how things go and doing my work.

Yes, conversation is one of the themes I wanted to be present here as we continue expresing which character could win another specific character.

IMO a good orber wont loose by a barb because they can tele. Its like me trying to out run sizzle or jwnz fballers, [yes they the best on east (In the opinion of lots)]and they havent won me because ww lock stops but they have not only ecade ww lock but also because of it they had made me loose 1/2 or more health.

Immortality
01-02-2006, 05:13
IMO a good orber wont loose by a barb because they can tele. Its like me trying to out run sizzle or jwnz fballers, [yes they the best on east (In the opinion of lots)]and they havent won me because ww lock stops but they have not only ecade ww lock but also because of it they had made me loose 1/2 or more health.

Its not much of a duel, most of the time the orber runs out of mana pots and teles back into town.

Zodijackyl
01-02-2006, 05:37
A good blizz can beat any barb.
Even with 95CR and 150+ stacked, 3000+ damage blizz wrecks. If I use full damage gear (tarn, 2 sojs, +2 amu, +2sorc +3blizz staff) I do nearly 5000 damage, and with -145 to your CR. Even if you're using hawk+irathas for the 95 CR, 4.8k damage hurts, and I can just tele away. I'm not going to give away my tactics, but even the toughest barb which can tank 20+ blizzes will still eventually lose if the sorc keeps up her mana. Most speeders only have 90 from hawk, not using irathas, meaning almost 500 damage per blizz, and 8-9 kills the pure vita ones, or 6-7 the lower life ones, with full stack. Barbs that don't stack enough die easily.
The balance here is that orbers and fballers own blizzers. Blizzers are great against hammerdins too, because dins usually have less ability to stack, having no natural resistance skill, and rarely getting more than 40 from their shield.

Immortality
01-02-2006, 05:43
A good blizz can beat any barb.
Even with 95CR and 150+ stacked, 3000+ damage blizz wrecks. If I use full damage gear (tarn, 2 sojs, +2 amu, +2sorc +3blizz staff) I do nearly 5000 damage, and with -145 to your CR. Even if you're using hawk+irathas for the 95 CR, 4.8k damage hurts, and I can just tele away. I'm not going to give away my tactics, but even the toughest barb which can tank 20+ blizzes will still eventually lose if the sorc keeps up her mana. Most speeders only have 90 from hawk, not using irathas, meaning almost 500 damage per blizz, and 8-9 kills the pure vita ones, or 6-7 the lower life ones, with full stack. Barbs that don't stack enough die easily.
The balance here is that orbers and fballers own blizzers. Blizzers are great against hammerdins too, because dins usually have less ability to stack, having no natural resistance skill, and rarely getting more than 40 from their shield.
Too bad you deleted her. Opps, did I say that out loud:grin:

hiroshimana
01-02-2006, 17:37
Continuing on my research, I have made certain formulas grabed from the arreat submit which gives me IMO interesting facts to support that Vitality may be worst than Strenght.

As an example here my math:
My barb does 1.394 dmg whith gear on.
that with penalty on is 232 and without strenght bonus is 180 meaning my bonus is of 2.09 per strenght with my weapon. My strenght is 220. If I had a strenght of 250 i had 2.75 per strenght which makes a total of 114 because of strenght while it was 52 with 220. As we may see putting on 30 points of strenght have just made my damage increase by what Ill say its big. 294 damage with penalty versus my 232 usual damage. wouldnt that help on pvp? maybe yes maybe no but also this is important as for pvm. i get 687 damage on pvm with 250 strenght while i get 312.40 with 220 making me do with high strenght a total of 1.769 damage and I am just using a 226 damage martel.

If you'll like to know what would be your damage with higher strenght just ask me. Right now im ust more interested of knowing the damage of any user here with a 280+ martel and what is his/her strenght. With this str bonus u may even come to do 2.3k which is 380 with duel penalty(more or less) and that will make as an example, ww lock or other such skills more powerful.(also take in mind I am not using CB yet so mostly u will do 1k+ with a CB damage and thats only per ww hit (You may hit up to 5 times in ww meaning u will own hammedins 11k hammers :P) anyone with a character that uses a 280+mart or 270+ tell me. Thank you.(am also insterested on a battle hammer and i need your strenght and damage in ww too)

hiroshimana
02-02-2006, 02:41
Since it didnt let me edit, i would say some new results:

As i have continued researching I may say I have found mostly all i needed to complete this guide of the PvAll. Also this guide may serve as a poper after all skills use for the other stuff...
Skills:
20bo
20ww
20mace mastery
6 IS
13 NR
+10prereq

And if you wanna be mfer:
12 into pop (u going to need bo sticks, and +2 ammy)
+1 prereq
+1 berserk

This will make 30 FRW, 60 resist and you will finish level 79 unless you do the mfer that will be done at 91...

Next to come attibutes and gear.

Zodijackyl
02-02-2006, 03:13
Too bad you deleted her. Opps, did I say that out loud:grin:

All my sorcs are still around. 91 blizz (Zodijackyl) 89 fball (UM-GodKiller) 87 orb/ts(UM-Zodijackyl) and my old xpac sorc DeathFromAbove (96 blizz)

Kiwi Legend
02-02-2006, 09:47
All my sorcs are still around. 91 blizz (Zodijackyl) 89 fball (UM-GodKiller) 87 orb/ts(UM-Zodijackyl) and my old xpac sorc DeathFromAbove (96 blizz)


You quiting d2 zod?

Zodijackyl
03-02-2006, 22:36
Nope, I was just offline for a week.

Kiwi Legend
03-02-2006, 22:38
Confused why Fred said your not going to value items anymore?.. did i miss something?

Zodijackyl
03-02-2006, 22:49
I had no internet access for a week, and I wasn't able to tell anyone why.
I'm back, and I'll get back to the price check thread soon.

Just thinking of it now, you used to be in RiJa clan, correct?

fredsta54
04-02-2006, 00:45
Confused why Fred said your not going to value items anymore?.. did i miss something?


my misunderstanding, i thought he had quit







Fred