View Full Version : Bows and more bows
My question here involves which bow I should be using. Yes, I've done a search on the topic. Unfortunately, most of the discussions are either forcused on softcore or impossibly rich builds. The closest I've seen is the Medusa write up.
So, my general criteria is to first stay safe, and second to kill. It doesn't do me any good to have uber damage but be dead. My second criteria is to kill, of course.
Currently I'm using an Upp'd WWS socketed with Amn and Nef, a Delirium helm, goldwrap armor, peace and raven rings, IM kings belt (for the fire and lightning resists), and tearhaunch boots, 7% mana leech and 18% resist all ammy, and chance guards. This gives me 75 resist all (cept cold at 65) with a few charms, knockback, and leech. The mana leech doesn't generally support freezing arrow like I'd like it to, but...oh well. I have not done the Act 5 Anya quest in Hell yet, so eventually I'll get another 10 to resists here...
Anyway, a Silence (with 75 resist all) would allow me to maintain my resistances but switch out to, say, a wealth armor for magic find, though I'd probably want gloves with knockback and a source of life leech. The higher mana leech means I could replace my ammy with a +28 resist all and replace the boots with crushing blow boots (for example). But, is this a good choice given that the damage from Silence is probably less than it is for WWS due to WWS's deadly strike?
And then comes Windforce. Though I don't have one at the moment (nor do I have a Vex for Silence), it's greater damage might mean I can sustain FA-though I'd have to use like gloom or something for the armor to bring my resists back up.
Anyway, any thoughts about these three and complementary equipment that is likely to be available to a legit HC player? My highest rune at the moment is IST, though with some forges coming up, I should be able to cube to a gul and I hope a vex.
thanks for your input,
Savvi
CoRRuPt-OnE
29-01-2006, 06:41
I think that for safety the witchyzon build by chip is your best bet.
tomatoman
29-01-2006, 07:03
get a might merc and equip him with a nice insight eth weapon, that will solve your mana problems, and i would stay with the upped wws but i havent made a zon in forever
Omikron8
29-01-2006, 07:27
the DS on WWS beats anything the silence can offer
get a might merc and equip him with a nice insight eth weapon, that will solve your mana problems, and i would stay with the upped wws but i havent made a zon in forever
That's an interesting idea and one I hadn't even thought of at all. He's using an upped woestave right now to slow the buggers down some (especially bosses), and he is the might aura version. But you're right, insight would solve that problem. Thanks!
Savvi
I second that notion. Stick with WWS, and use insight. amp+DS means quadrouple damage output instead of listed after all.
Wolfedude
30-01-2006, 06:17
Savvi, you may have read about my experiences in trying to get my strafer up to snuff. I have read your post and have a few thoughts. But my main concern is that you are not reaching the speed level necessary to be a successful strafer. You need 86% IAS to reach the 9/2 speed. I don't think you are even at the 9/3 speed.
This is probably the main thing you need to be concerned with.
Savvi, you may have read about my experiences in trying to get my strafer up to snuff. I have read your post and have a few thoughts. But my main concern is that you are not reaching the speed level necessary to be a successful strafer. You need 86% IAS to reach the 9/2 speed. I don't think you are even at the 9/3 speed.
This is probably the main thing you need to be concerned with.
You're right, I've never worried in hard core about IAS. I worry first about safety, and second about mana leech (whatever life leech I have is always enough for a bowazon). Safety means keeping my resists up (which are now about 75 across the board as you know) plus keeping the mob's AI "preoccupied". That never leaves room for AIS for me. That IS a question I wonder about though. AIS doesn't help my resists, doesn't help my leech...but of course makes you somewhat safer if the mobs die faster...but despite how preoccupied people are about that, it's not clear to me that outweighs the other two factors. I am interested in talking about this though. Is it really more important?
Now, I did add Mav's gloves the other day. But, knowing my general build, what would you suggest I change out? I wouldn't give up delirium or the knockback on the bow, and I need *some* life and mana leech, and leaving me much under 70 resists would make me nervous. You could assume I have runes up through gul.
Savvi
How is your charm setup? Got room to add some resists and open up some places for IAS.
The biggest thing about IAS and Strafe is ending a string faster so you can "stick and move". The slower your string is the longer it is the more likely to get hit.......BUT and its a big BUT I would want to run resisits naked to get it either!
Delirium
Delirium
Lem + Ist + Io
Clvl Required: 1% Chance To Cast Level 50 Delirium When Struck
10% Chance To Cast Level 14 Mind Blast When Struck
20% Chance To Cast Level 13 Terror When Struck
33% Chance To Cast Level 18 Confuse On Striking
+2 To All Skills
+261 Defense
+10 To Vitality
50% Extra Gold From Monsters
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
Level 17 Attract (60 Charges)
Seems to me the Confuse would be simply destroying your Amp casts alot. Also, do you realize how Confuse pulls mobs and that isnt wanted for a Strafer IMO.....now maybe a MS build or Freezer. Personally I think you are crazy trying to run this helm on a Strafer.......
Upp'd WWS socketed with Amn and Nef
Shael/Shael FTW
Crafted KB Glooves FTW
Tals Helm
IMO this beats your setup in those areas easily.......You can IAS the helm
PhatTrumpet
31-01-2006, 16:53
The gloves slot should always give ias on any decent Bowazon setup. Chance Guards were never meant to be put on a Bowazon, and Mav's gloves should really only be used on a Mav's Zon. Use Laying of Hands or Lavagout. If you absolutely can't do without knockback craft some with 20%ias, but I'd think having both knockback and Confuse is kind of redundant.
How is your charm setup? Got room to add some resists and open up some places for IAS.
It's pretty tight. Counting one extra set of arrows, I've got only 4 spaces open (and the cube of course). I'm hoping to cube some resist-all charms to change that, but I was planning on putting several 7% mf charms in their place if I do. Overall, my charms aren't great on this character...but that will slowly improve. Right now though, I'm stuck with no real extra space.
The biggest thing about IAS and Strafe is ending a string faster so you can "stick and move". The slower your string is the longer it is the more likely to get hit.......BUT and its a big BUT I would want to run resisits naked to get it either!
Yep, I agree, and that's one thing I've considered. I almost never get into a strafe lock problem though because I tend to run into new areas with decoy prepped, not strafe, so the first thing I do is lay down the decoy, backup, and then strafe.
Delirium
Seems to me the Confuse would be simply destroying your Amp casts alot.
Well, that is true. However, the amp is only "for" bosses and champions so to speak, so it sticks perfectly to what I need it sticking to. In fact, it's kind of ideal that way. Everything gets confused and hits the amp'd boss ;-).
Also, do you realize how Confuse pulls mobs and that isnt wanted for a Strafer IMO.....now maybe a MS build or Freezer. Personally I think you are crazy trying to run this helm on a Strafer....... Explain why? Though this is the first time I've used Delirium, I've never had a safer character (and on those rare occasions when I group, people are always saying they never realized how nice it was to have that going off). But, what do you mean by "pulls" mobs?
I do know the contant confuse gives me very very good protection from ranged attackers since they target the confused mobs (including each other), and not me. And, unlike attract, they do it regardless of how far away they are, as long as they are closer to the confused mob than they are to me.
Shael/Shael FTW
Crafted KB Glooves FTW
Tals Helm
IMO this beats your setup in those areas easily.......You can IAS the helm
(I don't know what FTW means here). But I do have a Tals helm, and I could perhaps put the delirium on the merc...but I've been saved more than once by strafe's confusing things behind me that I didn't know were there (especially in Meph's dungeon and in the Act 3 jungles).
Savvi
FTW = For the win
Confuse sort of acts like Attract and or bonewalls, it will pull mobs towards the cursed target that normally would not even get aggroed. You may not notice this much since you have Amp and Confuse going of pretty regularly but you can literally get everything in say a 1/4 of a cow level all aggroed just with Confuse.....if you use it in Arcane Sancturary you will pull ghosts from far away.
Now.....partied, I could see this guy being a ton of fun but partied I wouldnt care to use the confuse myself. a Melee build moving up in front of you will only help Confuse pull more mobs getting you into 2-4 boss mob situations which is a very fast way to get killed in hell especially places like the Pits.
I used confuse a bunch with my Skelly Necros its alot of fun, live on the edge a bit and more bodies to CE.
The thing is when you are a Necro you can recast Confuse at will where you cant wiht the helm and you could pull a big pack up tight then amp triggers and the whole mob turns on you with only a 33% chance of Confusing them again. Seems like a perscription for death that most of the time is looking like it rocks but the percentages can put you in a world of hurt.
The gloves slot should always give ias on any decent Bowazon setup. Chance Guards were never meant to be put on a Bowazon, and Mav's gloves should really only be used on a Mav's Zon. Use Laying of Hands or Lavagout. If you absolutely can't do without knockback craft some with 20%ias, but I'd think having both knockback and Confuse is kind of redundant.
I don't have LoH yet (which is strange...past ladders they fell out of the sky like rain it seems like), nor have I seen Lavagouts.
Knockback works on bosses and champions-confuse doesn't. A confused monster won't target you if they are closer to something else, but some monsters (I'm thinking dolls here in particular, but a number of others as well) have a "random dart someplace" in their AI...and pushing them away from you is an important extra safety factor. I *could* live without it but...
I'll start crafting though ;-). Even if nothing else changes, freeing up a bow slot for something other than a nef sounds smart.
By the way, I found a 40% enhanced damage jewel last night. Is that worth putting in the bow? If not, is it worth anything (in terms of runes) on the open market for trading? (I know this isn't the trading forum...).
Savvi
FTW = For the win
Confuse sort of acts like Attract and or bonewalls, it will pull mobs towards the cursed target that normally would not even get aggroed. You may not notice this much since you have Amp and Confuse going of pretty regularly but you can literally get everything in say a 1/4 of a cow level all aggroed just with Confuse.....if you use it in Arcane Sancturary you will pull ghosts from far away.
Now.....partied, I could see this guy being a ton of fun but partied I wouldnt care to use the confuse myself. a Melee build moving up in front of you will only help Confuse pull more mobs getting you into 2-4 boss mob situations which is a very fast way to get killed in hell especially places like the Pits.
I used confuse a bunch with my Skelly Necros its alot of fun, live on the edge a bit and more bodies to CE.
The thing is when you are a Necro you can recast Confuse at will where you cant wiht the helm and you could pull a big pack up tight then amp triggers and the whole mob turns on you with only a 33% chance of Confusing them again. Seems like a perscription for death that most of the time is looking like it rocks but the percentages can put you in a world of hurt.
Okay, I see what you mean now. My experience has been that the increased pack size works incredibly well with my pierce...I always saw it as an advantage ;-). You really do kill faster with strafe or with FA if they are bunched up and "attracted" like that.
Though Amp does over-write confuse on occasion it's never caused me a problem so far. I think this is for 2 reasons...first, the amp radius is only 4.6 yards while the confuse radius is 15.3 yards. The effect is to *further* concentrate the mobs. Second, my Valk and Merc are in the thick of things...the mobs may well turn on them until confuse goes off again. Confuse goes off fast though...with ten arrows all able to fire it with a 33% chance, there's a 99.9% chance of it going off again within a only a few seconds (assuming I just did my probability calculations correctly) if there's a group of them together.
I haven't seen confuse draw things from afar quite the way you describe though because they don't come *towards* me if there's anything else closer that is confused. The do clump, but they clump wherever they are pretty much (I guess the unconfused that can see the confused *do* come to the confused though). Also, remember, the confuse at this level lasts for something like 45 seconds or so, so most things really are dead by that time.
By the way, I appreciate these comments. It's got me thinking ;-).
Savvi
Well, with seeing numbers I feel better about the setup, I had never used a high level confuse its always been 1 point +skills, and that small an amp would act much differently than how I was imagining.
I guess just keep in mind what confuse does and if you want to see what it can do grab a wand and just use confuse alone in a low level area.......the best light show in the game is Act 2 on the way to Durys Tomb wiht lightning bugs.......one cast and a little movement can aggro a ton just like a bonewall.
My biggest concern is simply those solo situations in a bigger game like trying to do the pits solo. Those Archer boss packs tend to be closely positioned and I have frequently seen MS/Amp/Fant/Might...etc all in one little area and watched Skellys die as quickly as they are targeted. Similar situation would be in Nithlaks area, or any Viper packs, and then you have Dolls and even some others that could get aggroed and pulled together that you just dont want.
The odds of a bad situation sounds very small now but just keep in mind it is still possible.
40ED doesnt mean squat unless the base damage is big. A WW doesnt have a big base to work with so I would suggest trading it or saving it for something else. Now a +Max wiht a second mod could rock withthe WW.
YOu really need double shaels in that bow to get your speed. I use to have a link to a calc for weapon speeds but I cant find it, maybe someone can PM it to you and you can play around wiht it and see what you can do. From what I see you have a very slow Strafe that could easily be faster with just the double shaels, and you may not be far from a 9/3 and 9/2 might be easy once you really look at it. If all fails you can use the Sigons glooves/Boots for speed, leech and MF as well as some cold rez IIRC as the Mavs dont do a bunch for you and the Walks could be replaced if you can get good use by doing it.
YOu really need double shaels in that bow to get your speed. I use to have a link to a calc for weapon speeds but I cant find it
I had a link to that German weapons site. Since I'm using an upped WWS, which has no built in AIS, I set it just for the Diamond Bow weapon type, and the strafe skill. According to that, I'm at 3 fpa right now (and 8.3 attacks/sec). To get to 2 fpa, I need 86% IAS (which would give me 12.5 attacks/sec). Does it help to get anything between 0 and 86% IAS? If not, I don't see how I can get to to 2 fpa at even a remotely acceptable cost; I could get to 60 easily enough between the bow and gloves, but I'd still need 23 IAS to get anywhere. Thoughts?
Savvi
xeyloderixed
01-02-2006, 18:34
i have tried both wws and wf, and sadly i must say that wf beats wws hands down. while it is true that the damage on the bows are very close, the other mods on wf just beat the extra resistances that wws has to offer.
kb make it much much safer to run certain areas. frees up gloves slot, so you can use loh (which is a very underrated piece of insanity).
the mana leech on wf is enough to spam just about anything.
the speed ain't that bad either.
my last zonny (rip now, i was watching teevee and didn't see the 2824628946 flayers around me) had this setup, which you can switch up to make her more survivable):
kiras (ias), wf (shael), skullders (ias), noscoil, loh, cats eye, ravenfrost, some lifeleech ring, travs.
torch, anni, and various res all charms in inv.
she had max res all except poison.
PhatTrumpet
01-02-2006, 19:21
On that German site you can hit the "Show IAS Table" thing and it'll give you all the IAS breakpoints. Aim for as close to one of those as you can without going under.
The best defense is a good offense.
Strafe IAS Breakpoints with Witchwild String (Base 0 speed bow)
13/3 - 0% IAS
12/3 - 9% IAS
11/3 - 20% IAS
10/3 - 37% IAS
9/3 - 63% IAS
9/2 - 86% IAS
8/2 - 105% IAS
7/2 - 200% IAS
I tried building Strafers with a balance between IAS, resists, MF, defense and +skills and they were always poor performers.
My latest Strafer is lv 80 and going strong because I just went for IAS and resists, specifically lightning and fire.
In my opinion, given Strafe's ability to kill things off screen, you should not even see anything that can hurt you. (Except Gloams, Diablo's fire ring, etc. thus the light/fire res focus mentioned above)
The items listed here are essential for my build and slots I do not mention can be interchanged based on taste.
Armor - Twitchthroe/Ort 20% IAS 30% Lightning resist
Hand - Laying of Hands 20% IAS
Bow - Witchwild String/Shael/Shael 40% IAS
Helm - Stealskull/Jewel of Fervor 25% IAS
Belt - Goldwrap 10% IAS
Amulet - Cat's Eye or Highlord 20% IAS
105% is the 8/2 breakpoint. I have 135% so I have alot of options to change out gear. 200% IAS and the 7/2 breakpoint would be impossible for me.
The best defense is a good offense.
Strafe IAS Breakpoints with Witchwild String (Base 0 speed bow)
13/3 - 0% IAS
12/3 - 9% IAS
11/3 - 20% IAS
10/3 - 37% IAS
9/3 - 63% IAS
9/2 - 86% IAS
8/2 - 105% IAS
7/2 - 200% IAS
Your table is for a normal attack, not for strafe. I hope no one gets confused by your post.
However, I was wrong about not being able to get to 86% and not compromizing my safety, which is the ONLY breakpoint for strafe using WWS. (I spent way too much time today understanding this!). For those who might be following this conversation, I can do it this way and still have my 75% resist all, delirium helm, and current jewelry:
Twiththrow with jewel of fervor: 35
WWS with two shael: 40
crafted KB gloves with 20% IAS: 20 I assume I can get this with life leech, right?
That's 95 IAS, enough to get to the 2fpa breakpoint (and could even trade one of the shaels out for a jewel of fervor with a second mod on it). If I gave up my IK belt (with its huge lightning and fire resist...), and put on a Nos. Coil, I could get to 105 for normal attacks...but I wouldn't likely make that sacrifice, not at least until I get better resist charms to compensate.
For what it's worth, I am grateful to the people who got me looking at how to improve the build while still maintaining the level of safety I'm comfortable with ;-). Off to craft those magic gloves!
Savvi
Here are the updated strafe BPs for a Witchwild.
0 WSM Bow
0% IAS 13/3
13% IAS 12/3
26% IAS 11/3
29% IAS 10/3
56% IAS 9/3
86% IAS 9/2
113% IAS 8/2
It's sticked in the guides on the zon forum.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=183692
Here are the updated strafe BPs for a Witchwild.
<snip>
It's sticked in the guides on the zon forum.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=183692
Great-I couldn't get that off the German site (or it wasn't obvious to me anyway). So, a question for you. Assuming you *weren't* able to get to 86% for some reason...how useful is it to get the minor break points? For example, if you're shooting 10 arrows with 0% IAS, you take 40 frames to do it, but 39 frames if you get to the first breakpoint with 13% IAS. It seems so little (but worth more if fewer arrows are going out I suppose).
The big advantage seems to be if you get to 86% where EVERY subsequent is going out 33% faster than it was before.
Savvi
PS: I had done a forum search for "breakpoint" and "IAS", etc. and never came up with the sticky guide! I didn't think to type in "strafe" and "breakpoint" <sigh>.
56% IAS 9/3
86% IAS 9/2
I would get 9/3 at a minimum if it were me, and with a double shaeled bow that shouldnt be a problem. Arent Shaels 20? so that is 40 with Glooves at 20 you have this and you need 36 more for 9/2 right?
IAS jools can help you get to 9/2
I think there is an Ammy that gives you speed......Cats Eye? Hell I dont remember, but there is one and then maybe a Tals Helm with 15 IAS can do it. Tals will help wiht the loss of 18% from Ammy......then you may need some chamr work.
I know you wnat to add MF charms.....
Armor......it says "goldwrap armor" you mean Goldskins? There should be several armors that can help you more than Skins......these also slow your movement. Some of those higher runeword armors rock, or even a simple Smoke can free up alot of stuff, or Durys maybe.
MF doesnt mean much to me, hell I will do MF runs with 75MF if that is all I can do with optimal killing power. Personally I dont add MF to anything but a full MF build unless it takes NOTHING away from my build. Oh one of those MF charms takes away life charm spots, but that is resonable trade off.
Get speed and resists and life......then worry about the MF....
Wolfedude
02-02-2006, 18:43
I actually posted in the Amazon forum a cheap build that gets you to the 8/2 breakpoint. It isn't too hard to get there as long as you use a 4 socket armor with 4 IAS jewels, and the crafted 20% Ias knockback gloves and then the 2 shaels in the bow. That right there gets you to 120% IAS. You are gonna need resists and leeching from somewhere but you do have the other slots to fill for that purpose.
I am gonna try that build soon.
Stinger: Your idea for the Tal's helm is a great one...if I were willing to forgo Delirium. It's just too damned much fun though ;-). Seriously, you should try it!
Getting to 9/3 from 13/3 would increase my damage/unit time by 10%. But, assuming for the moment the two bow sockets are all I changed, it's outweighed by the life leech and KB. If this weren't HC, I'd be with you 100% though since the consequences aren't as high in SC.
I did make a surprising change that's helped some though. I put on IK boots and gloves on a lark-which I had no idea added 25 IAS (not to mention 40% R/W speed, a nice boost to AR and 25% mf). Curse that 26 IAS breakpoint! On the other hand, with a simple Fervor Jewel in the Goldskin, I'm at 40% IAS and at the at 10/3 breakpoint. It's DEFINITELY not worth giving up KB or LL to get to 10/3 (which would otherwise improve my net damage by only 2.8%). So, I think not only have you convinced me to increase my speed some, there's a way to get most of the gain without a radical change in play philosophy (safety first...).
Wolfdude (the next post after Stinger's). Seriously, I'm completely addicted to this Delirium helm. Want to try something fun? Try it ;-). Truly amazing. Anyway, it means I don't have other free slots (but otherwise, what you're proposing is exactly what I was thinking...if you pushed for the ulitmate speed, you could get at least 195. But that's for a SC char, not HC in my view).
Savvi
PS: I'm so close to L89 I can taste it...and I still haven't done Diablo, much less Mr. Baal yet. Hard walking alone.
Full_Circle
03-02-2006, 05:25
I actually posted in the Amazon forum a cheap build that gets you to the 8/2 breakpoint. It isn't too hard to get there as long as you use a 4 socket armor with 4 IAS jewels, and the crafted 20% Ias knockback gloves and then the 2 shaels in the bow. That right there gets you to 120% IAS. You are gonna need resists and leeching from somewhere but you do have the other slots to fill for that purpose.
I am gonna try that build soon.
If you are going to go with a non-resist ias type armor, Treachery seems waaaaaay better than a plain 60% ias suit. I think I'd take 9/2 with Treachery over 8/2 w/ 60% ias armor any day. 1 frame on the initial attack means very little for pvm. 1k poison damage per second, some cold res, fhr... these things you might want. Of course, I'm probably biased. Treachery is my answer for everything... except when my answer is Javazon. :wink2:
Savvi, the speed is for safety, the damage is just a nice bonus. You have leech issues with 7 ML Tals is 10. Faster the Strafe/shooting of any skill the safer you are as long as it isnt sacraficing too much from other areas.
Now with all that said, you are 88 in Act 4 I assume......I am not pushing it, what you are doing seems to be working fine but I just want to sort of slap you into your senses to see where speed matters, especially going from virtually no speed to some speed.....IMO Strafe requires speed more than any other zon skill as you cant move during the Strafe......fast in, fast out....stick and move or stick and cast and move.....speed is important and you need to get what you can out of it even if it means keepin that helm and not hitting a 9/3 just get closer like you did with the IK move......if you can do more...do it
Savvi, the speed is for safety, the damage is just a nice bonus. You have leech issues with 7 ML Tals is 10. Faster the Strafe/shooting of any skill the safer you are as long as it isnt sacraficing too much from other areas.
Now with all that said, you are 88 in Act 4 I assume......I am not pushing it, what you are doing seems to be working fine but I just want to sort of slap you into your senses to see where speed matters, especially going from virtually no speed to some speed.....IMO Strafe requires speed more than any other zon skill as you cant move during the Strafe......fast in, fast out....stick and move or stick and cast and move.....speed is important and you need to get what you can out of it even if it means keepin that helm and not hitting a 9/3 just get closer like you did with the IK move......if you can do more...do it
Good points, and it did motivate me to think more about the IAS stuff...which I just didn't understand clearly before this thread. I think being at 10/3 is good enough though...getting to 9/3 saves you 40 milliseconds on a strafe that is lasting 1.6 seconds so I'll be pretty good at this point.
I really do get the impression though that people put way too much emphasis on IAS...and that I was putting too little weight on it before now.
I do wonder how effective it might be to put Delirium on my merc though, and Tal's on me...more stuff to experiment with ;-). The merc wouldn't be confusing stuff coming up behind us like strafe does, but that might not be real significant. But, I've got nearly a 100% chance of it firing within 2 seconds (because of the pierce if nothing else), while he's going to have a much lower firing rate. Still, MOST people don't use it at all and get along fine ;-).
Full_Circle: (Hey, I haven't seen you posting as much lately. I've always appreciated your input so it's nice to see you weighing in) I agree with you. If it weren't for the resist issue, I'd be going treachery and be done with the problem. If I can come up with two 15 resist all grand charms, I'm there all the way!
Savvi
xeyloderixed
03-02-2006, 18:43
delirium is just awful for wws zons, because the irritating curses it sets off cancels the amp damage on wws. this might not be a big deal for 1p games, but you will really need the amp to trigger in bigger games.
heck, delirium isn't really good for a zon. it does most nothing to your damage, and it doesn't improve your resistances. there are just a bajillion hats that seem better for a bow build (kira's for res, mavs for ias, or even gaze/tals for dual leech, although the last alternative is the weakest).
goin below 9/3 is just unacceptable for hc purposes. in some areas you can do fine with < 9/3, but you need the speed to farm the most profitable areas. not only does ias speed your runs, ias also makes them much safer.
Omikron8
03-02-2006, 18:44
Delirium is much better on the a2 merc instead of yourself
put tal's on your head
he will poke and confuse everything while you have high leech
and you won't turn into a doll
Wolfedude
03-02-2006, 20:06
I disagree about using Trechery instead of a 60% IAS 4 socket armor for only one reason. Trechery may add 45% IAS but the 1K poison damage is wasted on a strafer. My ideal setup, cheap, would be the following:
4 IAS jeweled Wyrmhide armor
2 Shaeled upped Whichwild String
20 IAS crafted knockback gloves
Tal's Mask socketed with a 15% resist all jewel
Amulet with + life and resist all
Ravenfrost
15% resist all ring
Triple resist rare boots
Rare belt with + life and resist all
This setup allows you to reach the 8/2 breakpoint keeping the knockback for safety. With a few charms you can also reach close to 75% resist all in hell. The setup only requires 81 strength, a lot of which you can get from either charms or 1 or more of the items. This permits more points going into vitality and dexterity so that you have more life and hit more often.
You can even switch out a few items to add, say, a Goldwrap for added magic find. Or a Natures Peace ring to keep dead monsters dead.
With the added flexibility for the interchange of items, the faster killing speed, the lowered strength requirements, I feel that this gives you a setup that could be assembled for less than an Ist rune and would kill safely and quickly in hell.
PhatTrumpet
03-02-2006, 22:11
Wire Fleece or Dusk Shroud would be so much secksier than Wyrmhide. -.-
That 1k per second number was a simplification by Full_Circle. It's actually 305-325 poison over 0.4 seconds. This is definitely not wasted on a Strafer because I don't care how much IAS you have, next-delay prevents you from hitting a given target much faster than that if at all.
Kira's
Cat's Eye
upped WWS ('ShaelNef')
'Treachery'
LoH
Nos Coil
Travs or Gores or WWalks or Tearhaunch or Nat's or Sander's or CK... whatever you got layin' around
Ravenfrost
Manald or decent rare with AR/ML/res
Is what I'd probably use even though the IAS isn't optimized. 86% is really the only relevant IAS breakpoint on a WWS Strafer. Think about it: you're shooting ten arrows per attack, so going from 9/3 to 9/2 is taking almost half a second off your attack cycle time. Splitting hairs between 11/3 and 10/3 and 9/3 is just silly unless you use FA/Multi/Guided a lot.
Like Omikron said, if you're addicted to the 'Delirium' stick it on your Merc. The +2 skills will actually boost his Might aura some. Give him Reaper's or 'Honor', or stick an 'Amn' in his current weapon if he needs LL.
Hmm, I personally like Tal's on a strafer, dual leech, mana/life/res all seems a good fit to me...
I'd think something like:
Treach
LoH
WWS (Shael/Nef)
Nos Coil
Cat's Eye
iirc that gives you 115 IAS, so you're set on that.
Raven
Tal's Mask (Res all jool/um/heck even an ort)
Nat's Boots
Dwarf
This gives you 115 IAS, KB, 15% Life Leech, 10% Mana Leech, Cold/Fire Absorb, Venom from Treach, and heck you can even prebuff fade to help with your res, but LoH and Nat's cover different reses so you shudn't be too badly off.
-Tai
I'll give an update (either in this thread or a new one) in about a week about what I find when comparing my "Delirium build" versus a 9/2 build in terms of safety and killing effectiveness, etc. At the moment I'm short a fervor jewel though <sigh...with all the fervor's I've sold, and _now_ I don't have one! ;-).
Savvi
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