A tournament idea!

[SuperSavage]

Was thinking about a tournament and It is just an "idea" so inpute would be awesome from anyone. A point system will be used.

Main rules:

- HC characters only
- 3 characters total
- no twinking at all
- can trade between players but has a price
- can re run any area anytime
- any /players x setting allowed
- all charges from items can be used within restrictions
- gambling is allowed
- must stay 2 acts within all characters (example: justt starting out... my druid beats act 3, he has to sit in town and cannot leave but may interact with NPC in Act 4 until I started my second and third characters then when both of them reach Act 2, druid could go to Act 5.

Characters:

- must have a melee character
- must have a elemental character
- must have a ranged character

Melee Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of elemental damage at any time.
- No use of any kind of ranged attack at any time.
- Skills that allow you to do elemental damage with a melee attack is not allowed at any time.(example: enchant/holy shock/holy freeze/vengance)

Ranged Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of elemental damage at any time.
- No use of any kind of melee attack at any time.
- Skills that allow you to do elemental damage with a ranged attack is not allowed at any time.(example: freezing arrow/hydra/lightning fury/lightning sentry)

Elemental Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of melee attack at any time.
- No use of any kind of ranged attack at any time.
- Anything that allows you to do physical damage at all is not allowed at any time. You can only use elemental damage.

Points and values:

- Complete a quest - 1 point
- Aqquire all WP's in one act - 1 Point
- Complete Normal - 5 Points
- Complete Normal at level 30 or lower - 5 Points
- Complete Nightmare - 10 Points
- Complete Nightmare at level 45 or lower - 10 Points
- Complete Hell - 15 Points
- Complete Hell at level 70 or lower - 15 Points
- Every one item traded to teammate (choose wise) = -1 Point


At start of game each character will choose that they can not use uniques,sets,runes(runewords included).
- Deny use of Unique items at start - 20 Points
- Deny use of Set items at start - 10 Points
- Deny use of Runes/Runewords at start - 10 Points

Just a BASIC layout of the tournament itself but we need lots more adding so help me out and get your word in. I will think of stuff and put it in later or ask what people think. I do realize this is a somewhat time consuming one but I love em.

[Chicago]

Well, it sounds good, but the Elemental users actually have the lowest restrictions. I'm trying to think of something that would be more devastating than not being able to use melee or ranged attacks. Come to think of it, does a spell such as Orb, or Bonespear count as a ranged attack?

[DementiaMaster]

If the 3 characters were controlled by 3 different players, it could be interesting.

[SuperSavage]

Come to think of it, does a spell such as Orb, or Bonespear count as a ranged attack?

Orb is ranged and I need to know if Bonespear and Bonespirit is magic and if magic is diff. than elemental :). Elemental users are gonna be good, its the character that will be the best its just how its gonna work because their is so many elemental skills. Somehow they can be restricted, need to think.

[Docturnal]

Orb is ranged and I need to know if Bonespear and Bonespirit is magic and if magic is diff. than elemental :). Elemental users are gonna be good, its the character that will be the best its just how its gonna work because their is so many elemental skills. Somehow they can be restricted, need to think.
How about only allowing 1 element?
In the case of necro/druid that would probably mean no summons/curses 2...

I dont think allowing a merc is a good idea... at least not unless they are subject to the same restrictions as the chars.

And a question: How are elementals supposed to get their first levels if they cant melee or use ranged attacks? At least meleeing with the starter gear should be allowed.

[SuperSavage]

Mercs have no restrictions at all.

sorcs could be limited to 2 skill trees maybe for the elemental char.

[Chicago]

Bonespear and Bonespirit are magic. Same with Blessed Hammers. So your saying a sorceress can't use Orb? What about Hydra or Firewall? What exactly is your definiton of ranged :P.

[Arreat_mercenary]

Melee Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of elemental damage at any time.
- No use of any kind of ranged attack at any time.
- Skills that allow you to do elemental damage with a melee attack is not allowed at any time.(example: enchant/holy shock/holy freeze/vengance)

Ranged Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of elemental damage at any time.
- No use of any kind of melee attack at any time.
- Skills that allow you to do elemental damage with a ranged attack is not allowed at any time.(example: freezing arrow/hydra/lightning fury/lightning sentry)

Elemental Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of melee attack at any time.
- No use of any kind of ranged attack at any time.
- Anything that allows you to do physical damage at all is not allowed at any time. You can only use elemental damage.


I see many problems with such restrictions. First, elemental chars are going to COMPLETELY domminate this tourney, since they have almost NO restrictions, have you seen a sorc using a death clever or any melee weapon in hell if they aren't an enchantress? Their main restriction would be the first levels, and I see no way for elemental chars to deal with the first and second act in normal, I want to see a sorc firing 60+ firebolts to cold crow because she can't use any melee attacks, those acts would be a pain in the arse (and many mana potions drinking).

Besides, how about fishymancer? are they ranged or elemental!? they don't even attack, just wear their t-shirt b**tch :lol: and let their skellies do their work, and this char has NO restrictions at all in this tourney (they aren't melee for sure, and they almost don't need mana potions).

And I want to see how ranged and (mostly) melee are going to deal with areas full of PI monsters if they can't use elemental attacks (think about arcane sanctuary *shrudder*), I'm not very fond of running of monsters. What about of berserker from the barbs? that's magic, I don't know if you're counting that as elemental or melee, but it's a melee attack that don't do physical damage :scratch: I want to see for example a zealot,MA sin,bowazon or the kind trying to clear the arcane sanctuary without the use of elemental attacks (maybe with the use of amplify damage charges, but you'll rely HEAVILY on those)

I think the idea is good, but needs some re thinking and defining what's elemental, what's ranged and what's melee

[SuperSavage]

Ok so here we go. One thing to note is that magic damage is not elemental damage so we need to decide if magic is allowed or not.

A melee character HAS to be attacking upclose and have an melee attack all the time. Too make it easier for the melee character he or she will be able to use magic and elemental damage. A melee character of course cannot used a ranged attack at ANY time.

A ranged character is attacking from afar all the time. He or she does not use any elemental damage at all as well as no melee attack. Uses physical damage only.

A Elemental character uses elemental only and cannot use physical damage or magic damage at any time. Character can be ranged and melee if necessary. This character for restriction will be starting out with -15 points to start with(15 is a start for the number).

What do people think? If we made it too where everyone was one diff character these rules would be ridiculous lol.

[SuperSavage]

Melee skills useable: (each period seperates skill tree)

Barbarian - Bash, Double Swing, Stun, Concentrate, WW, Frenzy. All Combat skills. All Warcries.
Amazon - Jab, Impale, Fend. All Passive and Magic skills but Decoy. No Bow and X-Bow skills.
Sorceress - Enchant, Warmth, Inferno, Blaze. All frozen armors and Frost nova. Only nova and energy shield. All elemental masteries useable.
Assassin - Tiger Strike, Dragon Talon, Dragon Claw, Cobra Strike. Only Blade Shield. All shadow discipline but Mind Blast, Pyschic hammer, Cloak of Shadows.
Druid - Cyclone Armor, Artic Blast. All Shapeshift. All Summons but Raven and posion creeper.
Necromancer - Posion Dagger, Bone Armor. No Curses. All summoning but skeleton mages and you cannot revive a ranged or elemental monster only melee.
Palidan - Zeal, Sacrifice, Smite, Vengance, Holy Shield, Charge. All defensive auras. All offensive but Conviction and Sanctuary.

Here is the list of every skill a melee character can use. Gonna make elemental and range soon.

[Arreat_mercenary]

Melee skills useable: (each period seperates skill tree)

Barbarian - Bash, Double Swing, Stun, Concentrate, WW, Frenzy. All Combat skills. All Warcries.
Sorceress - Enchant, Warmth, Inferno, Blaze. All frozen armors and Frost nova. Only nova and energy shield. All elemental masteries useable.
Necromancer - Posion Dagger, Bone Armor. No Curses. All summoning but skeleton mages and you cannot revive a ranged or elemental monster only melee.


Here is the list of every skill a melee character can use. Gonna make elemental and range soon.

It's a nice start, but I see some other problems with your rules here:

Barbarian: No berserker? Then how are barbs going to deal with PI monsters? berserker is just THE skill for PI monsters and Iron Maiden. A barb without berk is almost as good as dead upon IM on. And you haven't decided if you won't use magic or not (which is the kind of damage of berseker)

Sorceress: No static field? Enchantress is good, but without SF they are going to be VERY nerfed.

Necro: No curses!? I want to see a poison necro or commandomancer without lower resist or amplify damage taking out lister and company, and the ages it will take to bring izual down, not to say how they are going to deal with gloams without dim vision being melee.

I don't know very much of sins,druids and paladins, so, I don't see any problems with that setup, but probably others can comment something

[SuperSavage]

Ranged Skills useable: (each period seperates skill tree)

Barbarian - All warcries except War Cry and Battle Cry. All Combat Masteries. Double Throw, Leap, Leap Attack.
Amazon - Magic Arrow, Multi Shot, Guided arrow, Strafe. All passive and magic skills but Valkrye. No javelin and spear skills.
Sorceress - We wont be seeing any ranged sorcs, trust me.
Assassin - No traps just Blade skills. No Martial Art Skills. All Shadow skills except Venom and both shadows.
Druid - Cyclone Armor, Twister, Tornado. No Shape-Shifting skills. Raven, Carrion vine, Solar Creeper, Oak Sage, HoW, Spirit of Barbs.
Necromancer - All P&B Skills but Posion skills and Bone Armor. All curses. Only summoning skills are raise mage or raise ranged attacking revives only.
Palidan - Conversion, Holy Bolt, Blessed Hammer. All defenseive auras. All offensive auras but Holy Fire,Freeze,Shock.

Here is the list of every skill a ranged character can use. Still have magic damage for ranged and melee characters but not for elemental, listed. Range characters cannot use elemental damage or melee attacks so they are pretty limited. Some arent too limited but if there was no magic it would be crazy for most of em. Just the way it is.

EDIT: Melee skills on barbarian... they can use Leap.

[Milb]

Palidan - Conversion, Holy Bolt, Blessed Hammer. All defenseive auras. All offensive auras but Holy Fire,Freeze,Shock.


You may have to change this one a little, maybe ban Concentration as well otherwise a cookie cutter Hammerdin would be easily made.

Milb

[SuperSavage]

It's a nice start, but I see some other problems with your rules here:

Barbarian: No berserker? Then how are barbs going to deal with PI monsters? berserker is just THE skill for PI monsters and Iron Maiden. A barb without berk is almost as good as dead upon IM on. And you haven't decided if you won't use magic or not (which is the kind of damage of berseker)

Sorceress: No static field? Enchantress is good, but without SF they are going to be VERY nerfed.

Necro: No curses!? I want to see a poison necro or commandomancer without lower resist or amplify damage taking out lister and company, and the ages it will take to bring izual down, not to say how they are going to deal with gloams without dim vision being melee.

I don't know very much of sins,druids and paladins, so, I don't see any problems with that setup, but probably others can comment something

Good eyes. Can't believe forgot those.

Melee barbs can use zerk.
Sorcs can use static field.
Necros still cannot use curses, because fishys would get too strong with amp. Hard choice to add or remove curses. Any curse skill is a ranged skill but does not do damage, helps it. I'm gonna add curses to the melee necros just because of the fact that when u curse something it isnt hurt from it. Thats how a ranged skill isnt a ranged attack unless u do damage from it, like auras as well as curses.

[SuperSavage]

You may have to change this one a little, maybe ban Concentration as well otherwise a cookie cutter Hammerdin would be easily made.

Milb

there is gonna be better builds than others, not much u can do to even everyone out. U take magic out then their goes a bone necro or zerk barb and pretty much a ranged palidan.

[Milb]

there is gonna be better builds than others, not much u can do to even everyone out. U take magic out then their goes a bone necro or zerk barb and pretty much a ranged palidan.

I'm not saying take magic out altogether, just limit the Hammerdin. Many builds here have been nerfed by the restrictions you have put in so it would make sense to restrict probably the most powerful character in the game and balance things out a little.

Milb

[SuperSavage]

I'm not saying take magic out altogether, just limit the Hammerdin. Many builds here have been nerfed by the restrictions you have put in so it would make sense to restrict probably the most powerful character in the game and balance things out a little.

Milb

Very very good idea, new rule... if you are making a ranged blessed hammer palidan you cannot use concentration AT ALL EVER and only get 1 point in it for pre reqs if needed. Without concentration u think it be too strong with 2 full 14% synergy bonuses?

[Milb]

Very very good idea, new rule... if you are making a ranged blessed hammer palidan you cannot use concentration AT ALL EVER and only get 1 point in it for pre reqs if needed. Without concentration u think it be too strong with 2 full 14% synergy bonuses?

It should be ok with the synergies but without concentration, iirc, my old bnet hammerdin which was decked out wasn't that fast a killer without his aura, might be worth finding someone to test for you though.

Milb

[JohnnyBravo]

a question and a suggestion

Question: When you say useable skill are points allowed to be put into the synergies if we don't use them?

Suggestion: Can you repost the useable skills with the mentioned changes to make it easier to plan builds. Or start a new thread with the revised skills.

[SuperSavage]

a question and a suggestion

Question: When you say useable skill are points allowed to be put into the synergies if we don't use them?

Suggestion: Can you repost the useable skills with the mentioned changes to make it easier to plan builds. Or start a new thread with the revised skills.

Q: The skills I list for each character are the skills that they can use for ATTACKING/DAMAGE for each melee/range/elemental characters. Yes, you can use synergies for skills you cant use.

S: Got it on lockdown, thanks tho lol. Gonna do Elemental skills useable then ill post up.

[Quickdeath]

Look, the premise of the tourney seems a bit confused.

There are five ways of "delivering" the effects of a skill:
1. melee weapon,
2. ranged weapon,
3. spellcasting,
4. summoning and
5. passive skills (masteries and armors).

Skills have 6 different kinds of effects:

1. They deliver or increase physical, elemental or magic damage to a targeted monster.
2. They deliver damage to an area of effect, or increase the damage or area of the effect.
3. They improve your attributes (e.g., Natural Resistance, Dodge, Penetrate, Vigor, Defiance, Frozen Armor, Bone Armor, Cyclone Armor, Burst of Speed, Increased Stamina - which are all usable whether you are ranged, melee or "spellcasting").
4. They weaken your adversaries (Amp Dam, Cold Mastery, Battle Cry, Conviction, Clay Golem).
5. They effect the AI of your adversaries (Attract, Cloak of Shadows, Ravens, Conversion, Taunt, Grim Ward.) Again, these are all useful to melee, ranged and spellcasting characters.
6. They provide animated or stationary helpers who divert the enemy and who may provide some or many of the first 5 effects. (Skeletons, Summon Grizzly, Valkyrie, Hydra, Shadow Master, Trap Skills, Bone Wall)

So there are 30 tyoes of spells (5 delivery categories and 6 effect categories).

If you think about skills in the way that I propose, then you should be able to characterize just about any skill. IMO, your tourney suffers from defining "elemental dmage" as one of your three categories, rather than spellcasting. Additionally, you are trying to lump summoning skills and passive skills into one of your three categories. You are also trying to categorize skills that affect a characters attributes, or weaken the opponents or affect their AI and somehow make these skills be "melee" or "ranged" or 'elemental."

I'd suggest dropping back and rethinking the logic of your categories. It seems like you have a good idea, if you can sort out the logic for why each of the three "characters" has certain kinds of restrictions.

[SuperSavage]

Main rules:

- HC characters only
- 3 characters total
- all characters must be different class
- no twinking at all
- can trade between players but has a price(below)
- can re run any area anytime
- any /players x setting allowed
- all charges from items can be used within restrictions
- gambling is allowed
- all characters must stay 2 acts within each other
- one character dies you carry on with the other 2 just like TWD.

Characters:

- must have a melee character
- must have a elemental character
- must have a ranged character

Melee Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of ranged attack at any time.
- Magic Damage may be used at any time.
- Elemental Damage may be used at any time.

Ranged Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of elemental damage at any time.
- No use of any kind of melee attack at any time.
- Magic Damage may be used at any time.
- Skills that allow you to do elemental damage with a ranged attack is not allowed at any time.(example: freezing arrow/hydra/lightning fury/lightning sentry)
- Any Hammerdin user CANNOT use concentration at any time, only 1 skill allowed for pre reqs.

Elemental Character Restrictions:

- No use of any kind of melee attack at any time.
- No use of any kind of ranged attack at any time.
- Anything that allows you to do physical damage at all is not allowed at any time. You can only use elemental damage.
- When picking a sorceress u may only pick 2 skill trees before you play the character at all. Also NOT 1 Fire/Cold/Light Masteries skill allowed.

Points and values:

- Complete a quest - 1 point
- Aqquire all WP's in one act - 1 Point
- Complete Normal - 5 Points
- Complete Normal at level 30 or lower - 5 Points
- Complete Nightmare - 10 Points
- Complete Nightmare at level 45 or lower - 10 Points
- Complete Hell - 15 Points
- Complete Hell at level 70 or lower - 15 Points
- Every one item traded to teammate (choose wise) = -1 Point

At start of game each character will choose that they can not use uniques,sets,runes/runewords.
- Deny use of Unique items at start - 20 Points
- Deny use of Set items at start - 10 Points
- Deny use of Runes/Runewords at start - 10 Points

Melee skills useable: (each period seperates skill tree)

Barbarian - Bash, Double Swing, Stun, Concentrate, WW, Frenzy, Berserk. All Combat skills. All Warcries.
Amazon - Jab, Impale, Fend. All Passive and Magic skills. No Bow and X-Bow skills.
Sorceress - Enchant, Warmth, Inferno, Blaze. All frozen armors and Frost nova. Only static fiend,nova and energy shield. All elemental masteries useable.
Assassin - Tiger Strike, Dragon Talon, Dragon Claw, Cobra Strike. Only Blade Shield. All shadow discipline but Mind Blast, Pyschic hammer, Cloak of Shadows.
Druid - Cyclone Armor, Artic Blast. All Shapeshift. All Summons but Raven and posion creeper.
Necromancer - Posion Dagger, Bone Armor. All Curses. All Summoning Skills but skeleton mages and you cannot revive a ranged or elemental monster only melee.
Palidan - Zeal, Sacrifice, Smite, Vengance, Holy Shield, Charge. All defensive auras. All offensive but Conviction and Sanctuary.

Ranged Skills useable: (each period seperates skill tree)

Barbarian - All warcries except War Cry and Battle Cry. All Combat Masteries. Double Throw, Leap, Leap Attack.
Amazon - Magic Arrow, Multi Shot, Guided arrow, Strafe. All passive and magic skills but Valkrye. No javelin and spear skills.
Sorceress - We wont be seeing any ranged sorcs, trust me.
Assassin - No traps just Blade skills. No Martial Art Skills. All Shadow skills except Venom and both shadows.
Druid - Cyclone Armor, Twister, Tornado. No Shape-Shifting skills. Raven, Carrion vine, Solar Creeper, Oak Sage, HoW, Spirit of Barbs.
Necromancer - All P&B Skills but Posion skills and Bone Armor. All curses. Only summoning skills are raise mage or raise ranged attacking revives only.
Palidan - Conversion, Holy Bolt, Blessed Hammer. All Defenseive auras. All offensive auras but Holy Fire,Freeze,Shock.

Elemental Skills useable: (each period seperates skill tree)

Barbarian - All Combat Masteries. All Warcries but Warcry. No Combat Skills. Just like a ranged sorc lol.
Amazon - All Bow&X-Bow Skills except Magic Arrow, Multi Arrow, Strafe and Guided Arrow. All Passive&Magic but Valkrye. All Javelin Skills except Jab, Fend and Impale.
Sorceress - All Fire Skills. All Cold Skills. All Lightning Skills. Not 1 Fire/Cold/Light Masteries skill Allowed. ONLY 2 Skill trees allowed.
Assassin - All traps but Blade Fury and Blade Sentinel. All Shadow skills but both Shadow Warriors, Mind Blast and Psycic Hammer. *Cobra Strike, Fists of Fire, Blades of Ice, Claws of Thunder, Phoenix Strike, Dragon Tail.
Druid- All Elemental but Twister and Tornado. Rabies, Lycanthopy, Werewolf, Werebear, Fireclaws. Posion Creeper, Oak Sage, HoW, Spirit of Barbs.
Necromancer - Raise Mage, Revive(elemental monsters only), Skeleton Mastery, Golem Mastery, Summon Resists, Fire Golem. All 3 Posion skills, Bone Armor, Bone Prison, Bone wall. All Curses.
Palidan - Holy Freeze, Holy Shock, Holy Fire, and Conviction. All Defensive auras. Vengance, Fist of Heavens, Holy Shield.
* Exception on Assassin - May use Cobra Strike if you finish it with Dragon Tail.

Ok, heres an updated version of everything. What we wont be seeing is a ranged sorc or a elemental barbarian but thats how it is.

@Quickdeath Good input... didn't want to get THAT crazy in it but man you did your homework.

Everyone's elemental character will probably be better, theres a LOT of elemental skills in the game. Its a point system... and people do things differently imo I like the whole thing.

EDIT: Need to make more Point rewards as well as fix up what I have already.

[JohnnyBravo]

I'm definately interested. Here are my characters to make sure I understand this correctly.

Melee:
Class: Barbarian
Main Skills: Combat Skills/Masteries as needed. Bash, Stun, and/or Double Swing

Ranged: (undecided)
Class: Amazon
Main Skills: All Passive & Magic, Magic Arrow
or
Class: Necromancer
Main Skills: Curses, Bow and/or Poison & Bone spells

Elemental:
Class: Necromancer
Main Skills: Curses, 3 poison skills

Two Questions:
1) Are there any restrictions on the mercs?
2) Can we use other skills/attacks untill we get the required skills?

[SuperSavage]

I'm definately interested. Here are my characters to make sure I understand this correctly.

Melee:
Class: Barbarian
Main Skills: Combat Skills/Masteries as needed. Bash, Stun, and/or Double Swing

Ranged: (undecided)
Class: Amazon
Main Skills: All Passive & Magic, Magic Arrow
or
Class: Necromancer
Main Skills: Curses, Bow and/or Poison & Bone spells

Elemental:
Class: Necromancer
Main Skills: Curses, 3 poison skills

Two Questions:
1) Are there any restrictions on the mercs?
2) Can we use other skills/attacks untill we get the required skills?

U have it down pretty good. In your ranged character, after curses whats that bow mean?

1 - No restrictions on mercs.
2 - You can use any skills, it is just that you CANNOT use a skill you are not allowed to use to damage or attack an enemy. Examples are: if your elemental necro gets lvl 2, and u choose teeth... you cannot use teeth at all because it is "magic damage". Another example is: You choose an elemental amazon and you get level 2 and you choose jab for a pre req., you cannot use jab at any time to attack or damage an enemy. If you are Melee, you have to attack Melee always, Melee can use elemental/magic. On Range, you must attack from range at all times, you may use magic damage but not elemental damage at any time. For Elemental, you may never use physical damage as well as never to use magic damage. Elemental can have a melee or an ranged attack.

[SuperSavage]

Still a couple things need to be redone. The point system looks ok but I wanted to get a couple more things to make it funner. A couple of things need to be edited to the whole thing, after looking it over. If we can get some people in, we could start it pretty soon. If we can't this idea will be lost in the darkness.

It's hard to come up with things that give you points, but with 3 characters... people will have quite a bit added together. Lots of tournaments/other things going on right now also and people are tied up pretty good. Anyone have anything to add, suggestions, problems?

[Docturnal]

I still havent gotten an answer to my question, so ill restate it in a clearer manner:
How are classes not properly equipped going to be able to get those first levels?
Example. Lets say youre a necro and should be a ranged char. How are you going to get to either a: getting a bow or, b: getting to level 1 so you can use teeth?

[SuperSavage]

I still havent gotten an answer to my question, so ill restate it in a clearer manner:
How are classes not properly equipped going to be able to get those first levels?
Example. Lets say youre a necro and should be a ranged char. How are you going to get to either a: getting a bow or, b: getting to level 1 so you can use teeth?

Ranged Necro could use at start:

1 - any bow/xbow (short/long/cross)
2 - teeth (magic)
3 - Any throwing weapon (knives, axes, javelin)
4 - Any Fulmating/Posion potion
(Can't really think of any more ranged damage u could do at start)

You use what you have at the start until you FIND or BUY a weapon that properly fits the character.