My Din, (Zealot) Opinions Please. [Archive]

Draco

10-01-2006, 17:04

Drazy, lvl 92. Europe Non-Ladder - Zealot.

Equipment:

- Crown of Ages ''ChamBer'' 29 res / 14 dmg redu
- Enigma Wyrmhide 1287 def
- Ethereal Botd Zerker 403ED/12LL
- Upped HoZ Ummed 198% ED
- Verdungo's 32vit dmg redu 15%
- Draculs 10/15/10
- Gores 200%

W Switch:

- Call to Arms Zerker 6/5/2
- Spirit Gilden Shield 33 FCR

Inventory:

- GC 110 ar / 5str
- GC 9max / 64 ar / 6str
- GC 81 ar / 34 life
- GC 128 ar / 22 life
- GC 122 ar
- LC 70 ar
- LC Hellfire Torch Pala 15/18
- SC 2max / 15ar / 2str
- SC 10 ar / 19 life
- SC 19 life / 8psn resist
- SC Annihilus 15/18/10

Merc:

- Pride eth CV lvl 20 Aura / 15%ed
- Eth Andy 10ll / 30 str
- CoH Dusk 15%ed

Skills:

- Sacrifice 20
- Zeal 20
- Holy Bolt 1
- Blessed hammer 1
- Smite 1
- Charge 1
- Holy Shield 20

- Might 1
- Blessed Aim 1
- Concentration 1
- Fanaticism 20

- Defiance 15
- Salavtion 1

Stats:

- Strenght 95
- Dexterity 90
- Vitality 355
- Energy 15

every kind off advice is welcome :)

Thanks,
Draco.

gorash

10-01-2006, 17:16

shield - i prefer a eth glitch'd exile vortex ed/ar over hoz on a zealot. gives huge def also
otherwise if u want to stick to hoz, use a eth up'd hoz
armor - fort definately with that 300% ed
helm - ber ber coa
rings - 250/20 raven and dual leech/stat ring

switch - if u can afford, +3 HS cta. not sure if they exist on europe though
inventory - try to stick to ar/life charms instead of other types. one mod'd gcs that i can see there are kinda useless.

merc armor - eth glitch'd archon fort

Draco

10-01-2006, 17:21

thansk for reply'ing so fast :) u got some good points there alltough the ''eth glitched fort'' doesnt exist on NL since the glitch only came after the ladder reset :p and i was thinking of using dual leacher/raven and a nice mara or any other amu for a long time, will definatly do that now. i needed the CBF in my coa becouse i used angelics wings / ring / ring (huhm, forgot to mention that ~~ doh)

gorash

10-01-2006, 17:23

Draco

10-01-2006, 17:26

my res are nice. i can live with em :p and the IAS on that hl would be pretty awesome too (ey also another bo lvl :p coz of the 1 skill) i will definetly do that! wowie *think of the worth filter* double dmg... i need that :o

thnx for ur input in this, much apreciated!

/Draco

kingdryland

11-01-2006, 14:50

Is this pvm or pvp? Your gear selection screams pvp. If so the only amy/rings you can use is angelic combo. You can always get a ber ber coa and change enigma for fortitude or stone or an elite zoded ethereal armor . You lack attack rating and defense.

If it is pvm then get a guil face helm instead of coa.

sorceressgod

11-01-2006, 17:08

i think HoZ is a choice of shield for a zealot. the resists are obscenely good, as well as the +skills to add to fanaticism..

almost same gear as me though, only that i use CoH(of course, for the resists).. seeing your setup makes me want to re-make my zealot.

but i'm not sure though, enigma or CoH??

oh, i also keep a weapon switch of a BerBer Heaven's Light and etheral exile glided shield for killing bosses :), losing that extra space for CTA for smite gear is worth it if u ask me, not to mention i've only got like 1.1k max life(added everything into dex for AR last time - stupid, yeah)..

nice inventory though, a a**load of ar charms :).

kingdryland

11-01-2006, 17:58

i think HoZ is a choice of shield for a zealot. the resists are obscenely good, as well as the +skills to add to fanaticism..

Exile offers +2 to offensive skills,hoz offers 2 to all levels +2 to combat skills. That means both shields offer +2 to fana.For zealots,imho Hoz is inferior to exile and alma negra for pvm and stormshield,exile and alma negra for pvp.

sorceressgod

11-01-2006, 19:12

well, but resists? i can't afford to invest in a truckload of resists sc/gc with mods for my pally, too expensive :/.

kingdryland

11-01-2006, 19:36

Umed hoz is 72 all res and a good exile is at least 40. Not that big difference. A 30 all res metalgrid,an average torch,a duress, a 10 all res ring combined with 40 all res exile and 30 all res from anya can give an easy 140 all res (170 cold). Leaves you with belt/gloves slots open to cover that.

MegaFlame

11-01-2006, 20:37

kingdryland

11-01-2006, 20:57

For pvm exile is not needed cuz the defense is gonna be ridiculously high that the actually benefit will be too small to notice. Speaking of life tap, you do not need it since BOTD leeches a ton of life and mana from zealing. Last thing, the exile is very expensive so only get it if you want to do pvp.

Leech from botd is not enough. It won't cut it. Life tap leeches from skeletons as well,don't forget that. Smite can leech from tap too,normal leech won't be of any help there.
In any case , even a good alma negra (good damage and ar bonus,about equal defense and block to hoz) is superior to hoz provided that you can cover the resists from somewhere.

MegaFlame

12-01-2006, 02:03

kingdryland

12-01-2006, 02:24

At the fast zealing speed the leech from BOTD will definitely be enough if he doensn't go ubers. With good ar he can leech good life and mana from act end bosses too plus if he tries to get huge resists from other gears other than his shield then it might affect his damage negatively.

Ever zealed in the middle of a reanimated Horde while under the influence of amp damage? Life tap is more than necessary. Leech is nerfed ,not even 30% is enough. And as I described above,he can have perfect resists with minimal use of charms and really elite killing gear.

MegaFlame

12-01-2006, 05:23

Ever zealed in the middle of a reanimated Horde while under the influence of amp damage? Life tap is more than necessary. Leech is nerfed ,not even 30% is enough. And as I described above,he can have perfect resists with minimal use of charms and really elite killing gear.

Well what you say might be true but as a good player he should never places himself in danger no matter how good his gear is. It's not like you can say: I can take on 10 minions of destruction all together just cuz my defense is 47k and I have gosu life tap. So if he ever zeals a load of animated deads while being cursed with life tap then he's not a wise player. And he will die more often than people with mediocre gears who play smart.

AnimeCraze

12-01-2006, 07:02

The real gosu players will adapt their strats to their equipment, and vice versa. He will zeal in a pack of 10 minions of destruction if he believes that he can tank them, and will not otherwise. He can distinguish the fine line between playing safe and dangerous, and stay as close to the line as possible to optimize kill speed. Of course, what makes him gosu is his judgement of what he can and cannot do, and the accuracy of his judgement.

One thing I would say about life-tap. It is pretty much necessary in some areas. Skeletons and souls comes into mind. But if really needed, you can use a wand on switch, and curse as necessary. Just don't get killed before you got it off (which DOES happen). The fact that he is using anni/torch is getting me to lean towards exile, though.

kingdryland

12-01-2006, 10:36

You know there are cases that you actually get surprised in pvm. Like a bad tp during a hell baal run or during a team play that a party member will cross his path with yours while chased by a group of deadly monsters. If you are cursed with amp damage and they are melee or under conviction and they are casters you really really need the instant-life-fill-with-every-hit that life tap offers. I have spent endless hours playing fanatic zealots with all sorts of gear setups in all areas and Life tap is indispensable.

In general pvm the life tap wand imho is a no no. A fana zealot must have on switch a weapon like gimmershred to deal with physical immunes and iron maiden casters.

AnimeCraze

12-01-2006, 19:29

Gimmers still gets you killed when there are a horde of hell temptress (whatever they are called) that shoots crap at you. ie. It doesn't solve much of anything. I use the wand for merc, MoD's, and ubers. Anyways, tap is not an absolute must, just like how enigma is not a must for a hammerdin. It's just so useful that it is strongly recommended.

kingdryland

12-01-2006, 19:45

ArcaneLegend

12-01-2006, 19:54

Gimmers get you killed?What do you mean?
A hammerdin can beat the game easily with or without enigma,it is a matter of speed. A guardian angel hammerdin can tank way better and survive way easier,he is just slower. A non-life tap zealot is slower and more prone to death. Do a travincal run without any life tap and then switch to something that offers the curse to see the difference.
One Zeal brings my life to max without Life Tap. In the case that you are facing unleechable monsters, there is almost always a leechable one nearby. If anything can get you killed, it's the crap blocking on Exile.

kingdryland

12-01-2006, 20:14

One Zeal brings my life to max without Life Tap. In the case that you are facing unleechable monsters, there is almost always a leechable one nearby. If anything can get you killed, it's the crap blocking on Exile.

If the exile user is stupid enough not to have enough dex for max block that is. As for 1 zeal to fill life i m afraid it is impossible unless you only lack a few tenths of hitpoints.My zealot with grief (even bigger damage than botd) and 10% dracs and nosferatu just won't leech enough without tap.You can barely see he is leeching at 15%. Life leech in hell is nerfed after 1.10, even 30% is not enough, and that amount is not that easy to get anyway without sacrificing optimal gear.

I rest my case here. I hope that this thread won't let some less zealot experienced people think that life tap in pvm is anything less than necessary.

ArcaneLegend

12-01-2006, 22:15

If the exile user is stupid enough not to have enough dex for max block that is. As for 1 zeal to fill life i m afraid it is impossible unless you only lack a few tenths of hitpoints.My zealot with grief (even bigger damage than botd) and 10% dracs and nosferatu just won't leech enough without tap.You can barely see he is leeching at 15%. Life leech in hell is nerfed after 1.10, even 30% is not enough, and that amount is not that easy to get anyway without sacrificing optimal gear.

I rest my case here. I hope that this thread won't let some less zealot experienced people think that life tap in pvm is anything less than necessary.
Exile requires significantly more dex to max blocking, which results in lower life.

Assuming I deal exactly 5K physical damage per hit, and have 21% life steal (cut to 7% in Hell), i would steal 350 life per hit, or 1750 for a full Zeal. It's very possible.

I hope you are not implying that I am inexperienced. It is you who thinks that PvM is so difficult that you need Life Tap. Quite honestly, PvM is a joke these days.

AnimeCraze

12-01-2006, 23:20

Gimmers get you killed?What do you mean?The only real way not to get killed by hell tempress is to run...... A large pack of them do a lot of damage in a short time.
A non-life tap zealot is slower and more prone to death. Do a travincal run without any life tap and then switch to something that offers the curse to see the difference.You are not more prone to death if you play it a lot more carefully. It's just that, it's A LOT slower, like taking 3~5 times as long. (try luring them out 1 by 1, use gimmers to finish off the FE one, etc., etc.) My point is that it is possible to solo the game without life-tap, just not advised.

Edit: I guess my definition of necessary (being able to solo hell, in 1 way or another) is different than yours (being able to do hell efficiently, even with multiple players). Of course, I still STRONGLY recommend life tap.

kingdryland

13-01-2006, 01:01

About hell temptresses they are only problem for my hammerdin and not for my zealot. Even the PI ones around nihla are not an issue unless they are a huge pack.It seems to me that the combo of torch and venom from grief takes them down eventually and not that slowly.With gimmers they seem easy. But generally I agree with you Anime.

As for exile. A level 90 char needs 158 total dex for max block with a sacred targe exile and 20 at holy shield. The same char needs 130 dex for max block with hoz and 24 at holy shield. Given that it is very possible that the char will need more than 130 dex for his endgame gear (grief pb will need 136 dex) the difference is even less. Not significant for pvm. Not to mention that the exile user has a clear empty slot in the glove department (he needs no dracs so he can get blood gloves with +dex or bloodfists that offer life) and can opt for a high life armor even, to compensate. But if you mean that exile is not essential for pvm I 'll agree. It is just a luxury.

About life leech, it is universally cut down to 50% at nm and 25% in hell difficulty If I'm not mistaken-someone could verify or cancel that statement. If you have 21% ll it means an actual 5.25%. The optimal return is 5 succesful zeals ( I thought that you meant 1 swing before by the way) which when the avg. damage is 5k means just above 1k in return in terms of life. That would be neat but: First,even if you use itd weapon you ll never constantly land 5 zeals in a row because monsters have block as well and especially not vs bosses. Second,the more resistant to physical the monster is the less efficient leech becomes. Vs PIs both leech and tap are useless.

MegaFlame

13-01-2006, 02:26

Well it's too bad that most are speaking of life tap as if it is always on so that they always have the 50% leech. Too bad, exile has only 15% chance of life tap so that it's not always on(not even close). And while the life tap is not on, you lack of blocking, resists, attack rating, and damage that hoz can provide will knock you out cold and although you can say: so what? I can get all these things from other gears. Well, invalid statement, if you really do try to get them elsewhere then many other attributes will be affected. For example, in order to use an exile and thus lacking resists, you'd probably use coh instead of fort(which was your original ideal armor), although coh itself aint all that bad, you just realized that you sacrificed the huge damage bonus and might get owned by monsters because you couldn't kill the monsters fast enough while the life tap did not get activated.

kingdryland

13-01-2006, 03:44

This thread makes me feel I'm playing a different game. 15% chance to cast on striking for a fanatic zealot means about always :) The only case it won't trigger is when you thrash the enemies with a couple of hits (hence there is no danger).

I'm enjoying maxed resists and supreme killing speed by using a pdiamond alma negra (19 all res) and I'm using fortitude with it,thx to torch and anni. With an exile it would be way easier to get maxed resists.
Anyway for pvm Coh has very nice damage mods too. Exile doesn't lack block,it just needs more dex for it and as I said above you can easily make up for a great deal of the vitality loss for using it (because more dex translates into less vita,not less block).
A fully synergized zeal offers 6%ed with every +combat skill. Which means that Hoz offers a stunning 24%ed to damage more than exile.Bonus to ar is 20%, not that good...The huge damage bonus is actually peanuts.
For me a zealot in pvm has mainly two options. Alma negra if he has the resists,sanctuary if he lacks a lot or need to stack (ubers anyone?). Exile is just for the luxury and Hoz is a nice compromise,it works very nicely but it is far from being ideal,and its price has a lot to do with it.

AnimeCraze

13-01-2006, 04:05

Let us do the math.
We know 1 / (1 - x) = 1 + x + x^2 + x^3 + ...... (taken straight from high school math)
Differentiating both sides gives. (this can be done if we look at |x| < 1)
1 / (1 - x)^2 = 1 + 2x + 3x^2 + 4x^3 ......

The average number of hits needed to trigger is:
average = 0.15 * (1 + 2 * 0.85 + 3 * 0.85^2 + 4 * 0.85^3 + ......)
= 0.15 * 1 / (1 - 0.85)^2
= 0.15 / 0.15^2
= 6.667 hits

ie. 2 zeals is more enough to trigger life-tap vast majority of the time. Is that always? No. But does it trigger very, very often? Yes.

MegaFlame

13-01-2006, 06:07

Pots any one?

ArcaneLegend

13-01-2006, 07:09

Life/Mana Stealing
Are cut 2/3 in Hell.

By the way, why do you seem to make such a big deal out of Trav runs? Since I'm a PvP Zealot, my PvM setup isn't optimized, so I lack quite a bit of DR, but my resistances and blocking are still maxed, and that seems enough to handle anything. Yes, anything. I don't remember the last time I died.

Pots any one?
Indeed, we seem to be forgetting the purpose of healing and rejuvenation potions. Why spend so many runes on an Exile when it's been in your belt all along? :wink3:

AnimeCraze

13-01-2006, 07:43

Indeed, we seem to be forgetting the purpose of healing and rejuvenation potions. Why spend so many runes on an Exile when it's been in your belt all along? :wink3:Same reason that I use prayer/insight merc on my sorc, even though I can get a HF one.

Laziness, the main propellent of human technological evolution.

ArcaneLegend

13-01-2006, 08:05

Same reason that I use prayer/insight merc on my sorc, even though I can get a HF one.

Laziness, the main propellent of human technological evolution.
Naw...laziness would only hinder progress. :grin:

The little bit of life steal that I have pretty much removes the need for potions. I don't even bother to keep a full belt any more.

kingdryland

13-01-2006, 11:40

Since I'm a PvP Zealot, my PvM setup isn't optimized, so I lack quite a bit of DR, but my resistances and blocking are still maxed, and that seems enough to handle anything. Yes, anything. I don't remember the last time I died.

Indeed, we seem to be forgetting the purpose of healing and rejuvenation potions. Why spend so many runes on an Exile when it's been in your belt all along? :wink3:

Zealots are meant mainy for melee duels so maxed DR comes first and resists later. But if you mean in pvm play,then yes,even pvp chars (zealot build is about the same pvp or pvm) shouldn't bother too much about DR. A small amount is fine.