Continued from Community Forum: Paladin builds

[Ax2Grind]

A little setup for those not familiar with the other thread. I'm getting irked at B.ent, gamekill every other game, looking for someone to convince me to keep using it instead of going SP or ditching the game entirely. I throw out a suggestion that there are fewer builds now due to synergies, citing my All-Paladin group as an example, Merick takes exception stating there are dozens of builds, I'm here to prove there are actually scant few with slight variations on each. Anyone else can pitch in but please be helpful, don't slam the concept due to expense or the like. After all, the highest runeword I've made is Heart of the Oak, anyway...



Exemplar (mix of martyr and vindicator fully synergized)
Templar (mix of thaaretic and crusader fully synergized)
Trinitar (mix of avenger and ranger fully synergized)
{Unknown} (fully synergized Holy Bolt and Cleansing)

Fanat/zeal
Sacrifice/zeal
hammer/conc
holy shock/zeal
holy freeze/zeal
vengeance/convic
foh/convic
smite/fanat

charge seems hopelessly bugged, so no charge/fanat

and you could also include:
holy shock and freeze/bow
Holy bolt healer/undead killer
sanctuary/zeal
"zerg" pally focusing on life replenish
auradin using many aura granting items

First of all, lets clear up a misunderstanding: I didn't say I've played every build. If I had I wouldn't even be asking these questions, please reread that post in the other thread. Now...

Exemplar:
---Skills: Sacrifice, Redemption, Fanaticism, Smite, Holy Shield
---Equipment: Passion, Exile, Andariel's Visage, Highlord's Wrath, Dracul's Grasp, String of Ears, Gore Rider, Shaftstop, javelin and rings
---Alternate equipment: Call to Arms (+Sacrifice/+Smite/+Zeal caduceus), Eternity (+Redemption/+Fanaticism/+Conversion caduceus), Faith, Harmony
---Mercenary: Thorns with Tomb Reaver for summoning/controling gear is ideal
---Explanation: Though this is the build I'd use for getting Hellfire Torches, its development was suspended due to all you read in the other thread. It was supposed to be capable of immense damage while using two skills that require Life Tap to be successful, hence a maximum damage Zeal weapon. This build was intended to surplant the Martyr, Vindicator, Relinquisher, Dragoon and Zealot (power variation, of course) while still being capable of a gear change and playing a different but still effective way: as a missionary of sorts. While this build technically doesn't have maximum damage without a Might merc wearing Pride, that can be changed if so desired, but the point is for this build to be used with the other three and, unlike Fanaticism, Might and Concentration don't have reduced benefits for party members, so this choice made sense.

Templar:
---Skills: Blessed Hammer, Charge, Might, Blessed Aim, Vigor
---Equipment: Eh, must I really list the obvious hammerdin gear?
---Explanation: I won't go into much detail here about Charge other than to say Spire of Honor is ideal for it's upgradability and damage, but without IAS it's relegated to Charge seeing as attack speed is irrelevent with that skill. This is why the 'Charge/Fanat' concept you listed above makes no sense, at least to me. Anyway, this is the build that'd use a Might Warrior wearing Pride, as he needs the Concentration to have lethal BH damage and both auras help Charge, well enough. As for the name, Templars were a higher (the highest?) order of the Crusaders, and since charging is as close to crusading as this game can go (and we don't disagree with that name) then a Templar should be a Crusader and something else, at least in my opinion. I chose, of course, the Thaaretic (a play on Hammer of Grahb Thaar and heretic I invented), which is the non-adin name for hammerdins, because it only needs two more skills to maximize the synergies and Concentration can be had on a polearm. You may slam me now.

Trinitar:
---Skills: Resist Fire, Resist Cold, Resist Lightning, Salvation, Vengeance
---Equipment: Doom, Dream (helm), Dragon (armor), Ice, Infinity, Stormshield, Verdungo's Hearty Cord, Crescent Moon (amulet), rest unnamed as of yet
---Alternate equipment: Dream (shield), Dragon (shield), Hand of Justice, Crescent Moon (weapon), rest unnamed as of yet
---Explanation: Some people call the main equipped the Holy Trinity. To avoid any arguments I did a little research and decided that's not an appropriate name for this, as Holy Trinity refers to the three principles of Christianity, which don't apply in Sanctuary (anyone know why Halbu genuflects?). A trinitarian is an individual that believes in the Holy Trinity, and that would be a much more proper name, however even that isn't really good enough. I abbreviated it to Trinitar because it has a more intentful sound to it, more along the lines of Sinistar (anyone remember that game?), it ends in -ar like the other two (helpful in remembering the build and its purpose) and just outright sounds cool while maintaining a three-based prefix.
---Further explanation: Now, as you can see the gear is meant to totally destroy via the main three elements, but even in the alternate gear you can comprehend why this build replaces the Dreamadin/Dragonadin (ugh, I hate those names) designs at the same time not requiring time to make another character, or two, or three. The berserker axe and crossbow in the base gear provide Holy Freeze while Dream and Dragon give Holy Shock and Fire, respectively. It is the armor and helm, however, along with the merc's polearm, that are the centerpieces of this character. Without going into more detail, with raised maximum resistances, huge elemental damage while lowering enemies tolerances, boosted attack rating with a reduction in enemy defenses, and having high fire/cold/lightning/physical resistances itself, this character can concentrate on making the runewords in high defense armors and get ideal blocking with the most points into vitality. Leech isn't as important or as useful in this build as the Exemplar, but more is still good as long as other areas don't suffer.

{Unknown}:
---Skills: Cleansing, Prayer, Holy Bolt, Blessed Hammer, Fist of the Heavens
---Equipment: haven't gotten this far yet, just throwing it out as is
---Explanation: I expected one of those hidden runewords to have FotH charges allowing the use of Holy Shock for skills, thereby creating the ultimate caster Paladin: four Trang-Oul's pieces, Dragonscale the charged weapon and various other gear. With a Prayer Warrior wearing Insight and having Azurewrath/Lawbringer on switch a build like this could be more than just viable, but allows all four of these builds to use every Paladin aura in the game. Insane, huh? Well, it didn't quite end up that way, did it? Still FotH charges could complete it, even if they wouldn't work as a synergy for Holy Bolt it'd still get synergized from it and Holy Shock while giving lightning damage to a halfway decent Lawbringer, so here's hoping it might happen one day.

Now, all of this was thrown together hastily, and without more detail you might think I'm insane. Here's your chance. While individual-skilled builds, like pure Vindicators, will still be played, once you've played them doing the exact same thing over and over and over what then? The Exemplar has multiple ways of dealing with many situations, as I explained in the roughdraft guide I presented (do a search if you're really interested), and even if you do grow tired of Sacrificing, Smiting, Zealing, Berserking and throwing huge damage around you can still switch some of the gear and play a slightly different way using the exact same character: no deletion or time spent making a specific build for a specific idea. This allows you to make original build, like a Werebear Paladin or somesuch, since that's quite limited in what it can use.

Alright, let me have it. :xmas17: {Ducks and covers, then searches for hammer to nail Merick back onto the wagon.}

[Merick]

You don't have zeal (other than on switch), holy shock, or holy freeze anywhere. Those are all very good skills. You also never max defiance for the holy shield synergy. I often do this when I have maxed all my damage increasing skills.
Charge/fanat doesn't make sense to you because fanat adds ias? Fanat adds the most ED. Vigor is possible too as it makes you run faster when charging.
You also only have holy shield for one build? Holy shield provides a huge defense , blocking, and faster block bonus. Holy sheild is the paladin's only skill that gives you defensive properties without using a defensive aura, and thus decreasing your damage. I don't know how your trinitar would stay alive with little leech, little physical damage, and no holy shield while meleeing. And no conviction? Or any offensive aura of any kind?

[rolling stoned]

fohers are already known as templars. they have been for a long while, so i don't really see anyone changing their thinking just for the sake of it. that's just my opinion

[koeraokse]

if u create new build then come up with a new name too, dont put good old names to new builds, thank you :xmas30:

:cheesy:
*priit2

[Ax2Grind]

You don't have zeal (other than on switch), holy shock, or holy freeze anywhere. Those are all very good skills. You also never max defiance for the holy shield synergy. I often do this when I have maxed all my damage increasing skills.
Charge/fanat doesn't make sense to you because fanat adds ias? Fanat adds the most ED. Vigor is possible too as it makes you run faster when charging.
You also only have holy shield for one build? Holy shield provides a huge defense , blocking, and faster block bonus. Holy sheild is the paladin's only skill that gives you defensive properties without using a defensive aura, and thus decreasing your damage. I don't know how your trinitar would stay alive with little leech, little physical damage, and no holy shield while meleeing. And no conviction? Or any offensive aura of any kind?

Trinitar:
---Skills: Resist Fire, Resist Cold, Resist Lightning, Salvation, Vengeance
---Equipment: Doom, Dream (helm), Dragon (armor), Ice, Infinity, Stormshield, Verdungo's Hearty Cord, Crescent Moon (amulet), rest unnamed as of yet
---Alternate equipment: Dream (shield), Dragon (shield), Hand of Justice, Crescent Moon (weapon), rest unnamed as of yet

All the answers for elemental auras and Conviction are right in there. SLvl1 Zeal is necessary as a prerequisite for Vengeance, and only a single Hellfire Torch is needed to reach five swings; just right when its purpose is distributing elemental damage. Attack rating is the only boost after that, yet with a Blessed Aim Warrior wearing Infinity you don't need that extranuous AR with Vengeance maxed. As for leech, I never said is was unimportant, but it's less important than higher life/vitality and not as important as it is on the Exemplar. The Trinitar is using Crescent Moon (amulet), among other things, and that provides a good deal of mana and some life stealing. More life stealing can be obtained from other sources, but with high maximum (including physical) resistances, high base defense, physical and magic damage reduction and some per-point absorb this build should be taking far less damage than others and still has a ranged attack, but - I admit - I haven't been able to get the runes necessary to make and hone it, yet.

Holy Shield is synergistic to Smite and from Defiance, those three skills have no other synergy relationship to others. While a pure single-skill build, such as a Vindicator, may use it (unadvised), the Defender design of synergizing HS is only truly seen in Werebear Paladins, since no other Combat Skills are useful to said build. The Werebear is one of those other four I spoke of, but I believe the current guide is more than adequate, unless I'm missing something. As for using it for other builds, notice the Trinitar only has 102 skill points used, with eight free to distribute. Five used to attain a SLvl1 HS can be more than enough when boosted given the blocking bonus curves. True, the defense raises every level, but I believe the armors are more than sufficient to sustain a high base defense for HS to account for it. Same is the case with other builds (the Thaaretic/Crusader has one point into HS as well as into Concentration, Meditation, Redemption and Salvation).

As said above, a Thaaretic is a hammerdin and a Crusader is a charger, both use Vigor as a synergy. I don't understand where I mistyped anything, but as for Fanaticism and Charge... If you believe it's necessary on a Crusader to use Fanaticism, by all means do so, but given this build already has Might and Concentration from the mercenary, and Charge is a single-attack skill, the physical damage given up by allowing the Exemplar (who's maxed it already) to provide it versus losing a skill from this build or magic damage gained from fully synergized Blessed Hammer doesn't equate. Attack rating and additional enhanced damage, which is halved for party members, are the only benefits, and your AR should be fine; the IAS, the main reason for choosing Fanaticism over other auras, is wasted when already provided from another source. If you don't plan to play these builds together then different equipment (Beast two-hander for charging) or variants (altering twenty or fewer skills) may be desirable. In short, the slight loss of physical damage without high-level Fanaticism or Concentration for magic damage is nothing compared to the versatility and total damage this build is capable of when those auras are provided by other sources.

fohers are already known as templars. they have been for a long while, so i don't really see anyone changing their thinking just for the sake of it. that's just my opinion

if u create new build then come up with a new name too, dont put good old names to new builds, thank you :xmas30:

:cheesy:
*priit2

I'm quite aware of the previous name, and I mentioned the reasoning in an extra long explanation (don't know if you missed it), but I personally questioned the use of Templar for FotH a long time ago, as well as Holy Trinity for the 'auradin' (yuck) in the explanation immediately following. Not only does Trinitar sound better but pulls away from Holy Trinity as well as defines more alternate equipment replacing those other autoaura builds. I didn't say anything because I'd probably be attacked and didn't want to make waves, but 'changing their thinking for the sake of it' and 'changing the name because it never logicially fit' are two different things. I could argue that Templars are done a great disservice if they're not related to Crusaders somehow, but what's the point? There are a lot of writings I haven't made public, some for years, so if you want to debate this use something other than 'we're already used to it,' please.