Whateverdin (Elemental Zealot/Thrower/Dreamer/Smiter/Medic) [Archive]

niner

06-01-2006, 01:20

After many failed attempts at making viable Avenger type melee paladins for PVM/Baal running that ended up using Zeal anyways, I have come up with what I call the Whateverdin. This build addresses all of the common problems associated with typical Zealot builds such as IM caster areas and PI monsters. Using Conviction as his main aura, and a balanced elemental attack as well as a physical attack that can get through any part of the game. This is not an inexpensive build to make however nothing good ever is.

This build will give you a Zealot/Thrower/Dreamer/Smiter/Medic with all the skills necessary to clear any area in the whole game using 6-7 different auras at once(with mercs gear). There is alot of variations/modifications that can be done to make a decent PVPer if you like as well.

Im sure you will also enjoy topping out at 95% lightning res and 80% of both cold and fire res.

Skills

Conviction~20
Your main aura. Breaks resistance of all enemies to -150%. Lowers enemies defense to make them easier to hit.

Lightning Resist~20
Is synergy for Holy Shock which boosts dmg from your dual Dream on switch. Also add +1 to your max lightning res for each 2 points spent here.

Zeal~15-20
Will be your main attack

Sacrifice~15-20
Synergy for Zeal

Holy Shield~10+
Each point spent here adds huge bonus to Def and adds dmg to Smite as a synergy.

Smite~1
1 Point is enough with combined with Holy Shield, and an elite shield to kill any and all bosses/Ubers in the game.

Cleanse~1
Very helpful for removing curses and poisons that you come into contact with as you melee away at closer ranges.

Redemtion~1
Recovers Life/Mana from the dead. Useful wheile weilding dual Dreams and throwing after battles as lifeleech doesnt work with throw weapons.

Stats

Plan out what equipment you are going to use and even better obtain it before making a build can let you know exactly how much str and dex you need to wear it so that you can put more into VIT.

Strength-
Enough to wear gear. I would suggest first planning what type of shield,weapon and helm you are going to use and the Str requirements on them before you make any build.

Dexterity-
Enough to obtain max block with the type of shield you are planning to use. Also make sure you have enough dex to equip the weapon you choose as well.

Vitality-
All spare points go here as usual.

Mana-
None

Equipment choices-

I went with MF theme as most of the R/W this build uses already has some mf, and since I play PVM, I figure that I may as well get something out of all the monsters I'm killing anyways. Im sure some of you can do some modifications to this and make some nasty PK'ers if you like. My pally has 400mf with gheeds and can kill ubers in Trist fairly easy.

Helm~

Dream
With highest res/fhr/mf you can get. this provides added dmg with Holy Shock to your melee attacks.

Amulet~

Highlords Wrath
+1 Skills, Deadly Strike,Light Res,Lightning Dmg, IAS. Clear winner for this build.

Armor~

Enigma
When you can get a Last Wish, and res charms the RW,MF,STR,+2 skills,DR and of couse teleport make it ma favorite!

Duress
Res,CB,DEF,FHR,ED All this for a little more than an UM rune makes a good choice for this build.

Most all common Zealot armor can be used here.

Weapon~

Last Wish
60-70%CB,CTC Lifetap,CTC lvl 20 Charged Bolt,Might Aura,ITD, Blinds Target, CTC Fade to make you harder to be hit,MF%. This weapon cuts through Baal and the Ubers like a hot knife through butter. A real Beauty! Make in a Phase Blade as this weap has no IAS bonus.

Grief
If you like 1 hit kills or cannot afford LW yet use this one.

Famine
Hella good Elem dmg from all sources on this one, even has some magic dmg!

Almost any other 1 hand Zealot weap you wanna use here will work.

Shield~

Exile
Lifetap,Defiance aura,MF,+5 to max FR and CR,Freezes Targets+2 Offensive skills. Make this in no less than an eth elite shield with the best res you can find.

Rings~

Ravenfrost
AR/Cannot be frozen (a must for any zealot). Adds cold dmg too.

Rare or Crafted
+AR/LL/ML/res/Life/Stats

Belt~

Thundergods Vigor
+20 STR, +20 VIT, Lightning Absorb, +10 to max light res,+lightning dmg. Best belt PVM for anyone period. It makes any monsters lightning dmg heal you if you have maxed lightning resists.

Gloves~

Crafted Blood Gloves
20ias/LL/ML/10%CB/Life/Mana/Res if you have Exile or Last Wish.

Draculs Grasp
if no Exile/Last Wish

Boots~

War Travelers
+STR,VIT and MF. Also adds some physical dmg

Gore Riders
OW,CB,DS probably the best boots for melee char.

ETH Treks
FHR, VIT,STR, PR good choice

Tearhaunches
If you need the +10 to res all.

Weapon Switch

Weapon~

Gimmershred Flying Axe
Hella elemental dmg and can be thrown in IM caster areas. Does dmg from all 3 elementals nothing immune to this one.

Shield~

Dream
With highest res possible.
When used with Dream helm you are already wearing, and your maxed Lightning Resist skill this makes for a fully synergized lvl 30 Holy Shock.

Merc

Act 1 Rogue

Bow~

Mandatory Faith Bow. Your Whateverdin will need Fanatacism for the IAS and AR boost Just remember its a Rogue not a Zon so it cannot use GMB or Matriarchal Bow. Make in a Crusader or Hydra bow.

Helm~
Use whatever works I use Dream for the MF/Holy Shock/CTC Confuse/Res

Armor~
Same as helm use what ever you prefer. I use Dragon for the Holy Fire and CTC Hydras.

Strategies

Is pretty simple folks just click on the monsters name and hold mouse down till it dies. If you are in IM casting areas then switch to the Gimmershred/Dream setup and throw at whatever comes at you and is lightning immune. Also some areas like the pits and worldstone keep can be done with dual Dream switch in its entirety with Redemtion to recover life from all the dead Holy Shocked monsters after each battle. Use your Smite skill to kill Baal,Diablo, and the Ubers. and Zeal with Conviction as your main aura for the rest. Just dont forget to switch to Gimmers when approaching IM areas else youll die from IM.

I hope that you all enjoy this build and I look forward to hearing how you do with any modifications to it. And I'm sure I missed something as usual.

MarathonMatt

07-01-2006, 04:07

Sounds like fun dude, Good job on the guide. I'm sure if I had the gear I'd be making one already. Sounds like the gear the char will use will have a few + skills so mabye 20 points into conviction isn't quite necessary because I know it caps a a certain -%, I just cant remember what :)

masterazn

07-01-2006, 05:44

niner

07-01-2006, 10:01

150% is cap but more conviction= more to lower def so it doesnt hurt.

Not alot of skill items used here as no hoz,maras,bk etc. Items used all have some added elem dmg and melee minded stats.

cassurai

07-01-2006, 20:16

Nice to see your whateverdin up as a guide man!

I've seen this in action and I must say, it's probably the most fun PvM build around today. Conviction and Dream owns the pesky low life little monsters, your big physical damage and fast Zeal speed takes care of the big fellas, while that huge CB on Last Wish owns Ubers as well, even with just 1 point Smite. And what's more, IM knights get beaten by Gimmershreds hurled at them and they die quickly enough since they have such a high level conviction is on their butts, not to mention they are frozen by Exile's "Freeze Target" mod.

:)

Perhaps a lack of alternative gear for the poorer people here, but other than switching Last Wish for other Zealot weapons such as Stormlash the other parts are pretty essential. I figure if one has no Exile, HOZ would be great too (just get Drac's and hit pots till Life Tap casts), saves a lot on Blocking as well. An expensive build for sure, but it's fun to try and anyone who can afford it should give it a shot, especially duellers who miss some real PvM fun with non-cookie cutter builds such as this.

niner

10-01-2006, 22:31

No way around not using Faith will need it for this build.

However Im sure that you can get by on some cheaper Zealot gears. Here some other options I can recomend that will get you by till you can obtain the more spendy gears.

Helm- Gaze,Guiliames Face

Armor-Shaftstop(dr%),Guardian Angel(max to res,+1 all skill)Leviathon (dr%)

Shield-Dragonscale(Hydras,fire dmg,Elite for smite dmg!) Stormshield(dr%,Light res)

Gloves- Lying of Hands(ias,demon dmg) Dracs(life tap!) Lavagouts(ias,Fire dmg)

Belt- T-gods

Boots- Gore Riders, Tearhaunches

Rings- Ravenfrost, ar,leech,res,stats

Amu- Highlords

Weapons- Baranars Star(huge tri elem dmg, ias) Crescent Moon Phase Blade(OW,CTC Static Field,lowers light dmg,ias,ITD)Shaeffers(elem dmg,Static,Light res)

Switch

Weapon- Gimmershred(throw at IM areas) Bone wand( Sounds funny but alot rare wands with alot 300+ elem dmg's out there since IM only affects physical dmg you can zeal and still do alot elem dmg with these while only reflecting small amounts of physical dmg to yourself)

Shield- Dragonscale,Sanctuary( if made in Elite shield can be used for Dream later..)

Merc

Weapon- FAITH

Armor-Duriels(norm or eth)

Helm-Stealskull

I had a great suggestion to use a faster bow for merc's Faith like a Ward bow , or a Great bow. This sounds like a great idea.You lose some physical dmg but the speed will make up for it.

Although you may have a tough time doing an Uber Trist.The budget build should get you around in Hell mode till you can save up for the higher priced runewords. I played like this for some time and picked up the runewords one at a time when I found good deals on them and could afford.

I may do an update to this guide sometime in the future. But for now I need feedbacks and questions about anything that I may have overlooked.

Mammel248

11-01-2006, 08:57

Nice Pala name lol :lol:

kilo

11-01-2006, 14:48

Nice Pala name lol :lol:

I jus finished my 3rd rebuild of my Dreamer. I decided to take a spin on this last one. Instead of maxing convic, I maxed fanat and gave my merc an Infinity. It is more expensive, but allows the dreamer to be much faster and more powerful. (Some of my previous builds had speed problems a well as leach problems.)

His gear is: Dream BV, Dream Royal Shield, Fort AP, rare +2 pally/ +14 str/+10 all res ammy, dual leach ring, 20 dex raven, switchedoff between tgods and vergungos, Goreriders, 10/15 Draculs, and CTA/Spirit on switch.

niner

11-01-2006, 18:29

I jus finished my 3rd rebuild of my Dreamer. I decided to take a spin on this last one. Instead of maxing convic, I maxed fanat and gave my merc an Infinity. It is more expensive, but allows the dreamer to be much faster and more powerful. (Some of my previous builds had speed problems a well as leach problems.)

His gear is: Dream BV, Dream Royal Shield, Fort AP, rare +2 pally/ +14 str/+10 all res ammy, dual leach ring, 20 dex raven, switchedoff between tgods and vergungos, Goreriders, 10/15 Draculs, and CTA/Spirit on switch.

I've considered this before. Insight/max fana or faith/max conviction.

With -45%-55% light res and lvl 12 conviction, hard to ignore this weapon. Insight gives you a pole merc whos gonna die from IM 6 times on Diablo run and 9 times on WK lvl 2 run, leaving you with lvl 20 fana and zeal with your favorite weapon (which is?) to fend off the hoards. this may be the way to go PVP but I dont think the best choice PVM.

On the other hand Faith mercs wont die from IM as they generally stay out of the way and back from any harm. If they do die you still have options running maxed conviction with HS pulses and throwing gimmershreds. Only place I can see troubles is that 9/10 times she will die doing Trist Ubers but I never had any probs killing them with only Conviction/Smite even with 3 other players in the game. Might be some troubles there if you dont have exile to gain the 20 ias from craft gloves. If you can kick off lifetap with dracs youll be fine.

Also the re-animates are a nice bonus as they keep the hoards attacking them instead of you so you can simply stay behind them and pick off any nasties without taking any damage to yourself and merc. Also Faith provides 15 res all which can allow you to equip your merc with a Dragon armor(ctc Hydras and holy fire) and Dream helm (ctc Confuse, Holy Shock) with 14 res min will make merc have max resists.

Mammel248-

With all the different auras this Pally uses at the same time.
Conviction
Might
Defiance
Holy Shock lvl 30 or lvl 15 based on what switch hes using
and merc
Holy Shock lvl 15
Holy fire
Fanatacism

and attacks
Zeal with CTC, Lifetap,lvl 20 charged bolt,Confuse,Firestorm(Torch),Fade
Smite with CTC^^
Throw with CTCconfuse,Firestorm

And merc CTC Confuse,Hydras,Re-animates

And medic duties.

He just does whatever with whatever it takes to get the job done. Back in Spring of last year when my friend SAM_SDG was making these for PVP I was making it for PVM and we were trying to come up with a name for it. He said whateverdin so it kinda stuck.

How bout Elemental Faithadin? Maybe you guys can help me to comeup with a new name for it and Ill make it so when I put together a refined version 1.2 of the guide.

sorceressgod

11-01-2006, 19:02

WOW...

but not sure if its good in PvP though... nowadays in PvP many people are using paladins which are either hammerdins/smiter/charge or foh/smite. so hard to kill :/.

kilo

11-01-2006, 23:05

As for your concern with iron maiden, I use an infinity on my sorc made in a regular normal poleaxe. He gives her the conviction, and if he gets maidened he can take about 5-6 hits before hit dies. That is usually enough time for me to tele out of the way. A similiar idea could work with my pally

niner

11-01-2006, 23:38

I think a maxed conviction will do more dmg with holy shock than a lvl 12 one the -% to light res may make up for this. anyhow lmk how this turns out.

kilo

12-01-2006, 00:23

I think a maxed conviction will do more dmg with holy shock than a lvl 12 one the -% to light res may make up for this. anyhow lmk how this turns out.

I am presently lvl 85, I do 2412-14k dmg with 2810 life(with cta)

Of that, 2370-7577 is Physical, rest is due to the dreams (Approx 6.5k)

In this way, I get a very good balance between Speed, Physical Damage, and Lightning, of of course, Kick-arse-itude. I do not have to rely on life tap to trigger to survive in a pack. This is not a character for pvp, but I is one of the most balanced builds I can think of for pvm.

niner

12-01-2006, 01:05

I dont think this can clear Chaos Santuary or Worldstone lvl3. Unless im missing something Im will eat him up. Also they have physical and lightning immunes monsters to deal with as well.

niner

18-01-2006, 19:16

I need more feedback on this so I can revise this guide and hopefully get it stickied. I will assume that since nobody has made any negative comments is a good thing and that I covered all with this. I see alot of ppl looking for a new kind pala to make this should be it.

theHATERSclub

28-01-2006, 18:22

I've used something similar to this back in 1.10 before dream gear caught on.
Skills: 20 conviction, 20, zeal, 20 sacrifice, 20 holy shield, rest where ever
Gear:
Glimmer (tried famine zerker but had to repair it every 2 min, which is REALLY expensive)
CoH Archon
Exile
Andariels Ugly Visage
T-Gods
Lavagout
Gores
Highlords
Ravenfrost
Rare duel leech ring
Anni, pois, life, elemental dmg charms

I must tell you, this build and gear selection kicked butt. Glimmer is underrated, the elemental dmg is HUGE and you basically double the dmg due to conviction. And when you hit IM areas, you already have it equipped to throw. Only problem with glimmer is its range (1) so zeal wasn't always a flurry of attacks. Other weapons I used where the trusty lightsabre and azurewrath.
Like I said, very similar to your set up with out the dreams and an extremely fun build. Since Dreams have become popular, your set-up would work very well and will give players bored with the norm cookie builds a chance to have fun and be unusual again. Using convicion with zeal paired with tons of elemental dmg is extremely effective.

niner

29-01-2006, 00:25

theHatersclub- Res lightning is a synergy for holy shock so maxing that will increase not only the holy shock pulse dmg but also the melee added lightning dmg as well when you are using dreams. With a weapon switch of

exile+favorite zeal weap- with dream helm you get the synergized benefit of lvl 15 holy shock added to your zeals dmg + minimal shock pulses.

on switch

Gimmershred+Dream shield- You get the synergized lvl 30 holy shock and are able to throw gimmers. You become a dreamer/thrower with gobs of elem dmg thrown at enemies with a fana boost from merc. also no res lost on this switch as dream takes care of that if made in the proper shield.

maxed light res also gives you 10 to your max lightning res as a passive bonus coupled with t-gods make lightning your friend and uber meph like a child

Having the faith merc offers up some fanatism, which was only available on the 1.10 patch which gives big ar% bonus and 32 avg on the ias. which really makes this pally rock whether throwing/zealing/smiting. Maybe faith wasnt around when you made yours. It is the godsend for this build.

I too first made this build around famine zerker which was an awesome weap but ran a little too slow for me and lacked the CB needed to kill baal in a timely fashion. maybe if your gonna go famine make in a war spike. I hadnt gotten that far yet when i abandoned it for LW for the CB for making baal and ubers melt like butter and the mf etc, and Ill never go back.

theHATERSclub

29-01-2006, 03:18

niner-
I know lit res adds to holy shock dmg as a synergy and increases your max lit res (2 active raises it by one). I was just describing my similar build before dreams became used. Using the dreams and lit res will greatly increase your killing power. I was just trying to add a little feedback on how effective this build could be. I have a dreamadin and he is quite effective.

popab

01-02-2006, 03:02

Hey niner!

I like the like the possibilities of this build. Hafta make me one.

Just as a note on mercs --- ya might check out the "TOWNSFOLK" section on this website. You will notice that Rogue hired from a normal game does more damage than one hired from a hell game. There are also ias breakpoints listed for various base weapon speeds,(bows) which should suggest the optimal bow to make your 'faith' with. This will vary depending upon any increased attack speed from her armor and hat, but will result in the fastest, (arrows fired per second) highest damage bow (great, ward, diamond or crusader) for the gear. There is just a wealth of info and charts for all mercs there, so give a gander at "TOWNSFOLK"

secretzone

08-02-2006, 10:46

hey niner, nice to see yur whateverdin guide up !

secretzone

08-02-2006, 10:46

hey niner, nice to see yur whateverdin guide up !

HeavAngel

16-02-2006, 21:03

Added to the Guide Thread.:thumbsup:

niner

25-02-2006, 17:48

Pobab- Thanks for that townsfolk info! I been searching forums for it and was all on the dii main page. Here's the link to it http://diabloii.net/townsfolk/mercias/rias.shtml

Secretzone- Thx man

And thanks for adding it to the guide section. I will make up a updated version with some added info on ghetto gears, merc info, play strategies and such in the future.

garion

24-03-2006, 23:22

what and interesting build =P....and this runs ok in hell huh niner? would love to see a demo some time you're on

garion

27-03-2006, 13:52

wow..what a build....got to see a live demo from niner...and this build was fast for a melee based build

cleared chaos (8 player!) with little to no help (i just sat back mostly...and tried to protect him whne he typed...lol...cause i asked so many damned questions....probably distracted the heck out of niner =P)

but seriously...he hacked his way from the river to chaos and switched to glimer...and "shredded" his opponents....use cleanse to get rid of auras...but really just muscled through chaos...:shocked: (very quickly in my opinion...granted a few the hammerdin might be faster.....but he wasn't using tele...and killed practically every opponent himself - i can't say that for anyother melee based char :laugh: )

he did tp once...for what i can only assume was a repair on the glimmer (i didn't ask)

i forgot to ask niner how he was healing (no leech when throwing)...pots? redemption? i also didn't know what medic meant =( (im so dense)

this char looks fun to play..and very versatile...i didn't get to see him in action against gloams...but niner mentioned that he actaully heals from them with tgods only (with 95% lit res)

this build is very very intriguing...

my only dilema now is deciding who to i will have to delete to make space for my new whateverdin! =D

thanks for the great guide niner..im sure i will have more questions along the way (about the d clone stuff too =P)

ps: forgot to mention...niner noted that his whateverdin has also tangled and slayed uber trists :thumbsup:

garion

20-04-2006, 00:50

is there a particular skill we should focus on whne building?

im guessing zeal/sacrafice first...than slowly pumping conviction.....light res...etc?

niner

21-04-2006, 01:30

Sac+might lvl 1-12
Zeal+might lvl 12-30
lvl 30+ zeal+conviction till you can equip your merc with the faith.
goldstrike,gaze/stealskull,duriels for her till she can equip.

Might be a good idea to do some runs with sorc or java till you get up there. They will surely enjoy having you merc for them.. Your gonna be slow till you get the fana.

Maniphesto

01-05-2006, 04:06

What about charms?

and resists?

my trial shows me having some pretty low resists in hell.

Maniphesto

01-05-2006, 04:20

n/m

I see now when fade activates resist issues dissappear ha.

this is an awesome build, g/j with this.

starting mine right now.

In testing, the build seemed to max around 9.XK AR, is there anyway to get it any higher then that? charms seem to be the only way I suppose.

Maniphesto

01-05-2006, 09:26

Im still playin' around with this build and i was thinkin something here.

although I love gimmershred and its pretty styling to have a pally tossing axes I think its also pretty cool to try throwing a hand of justice into your weapon switch, and have your merc wearin the dragon armor to stack holy fire, any extra skill points could be put into fire resist and this would allow a pretty rockin holy shock on one hand and a pretty rockin holy fire on the other. What do you think?

EDIT: this also allows for you to maybe throw your dream shield into your primary attack so your alwayys going with the lvl 30 fully synergized holy shock, throw your exile into your switch with hand of justice and your going with your synergized holy fire.

providing of course your merc holy fire and yours will stack, they do stack right?

niner

01-05-2006, 19:14

Res can be made up in good dreams and exile, ring, blood gloves. Use Duress as well. You dont have to go Enigma but if you do you will need to make up that res. Is another fun part of the build is always upgrading your equipment.

AR can never get enough of. Max zeal,Sacrafice, use charms, Crafted blood rings and blood gloves. Rings and gloves can spawn AR+ 5% bonuses to AR.

I dont use any AR charms and I have no probs hitting nything with max Conviction,High Zeal, High Sacrafice and of course sexy mercs Fana aura.

Mercs auras will not stack with yours. I use Dragon on her anyways for the hydras and the +5% to max lightning res and the ctc Venom. If there was a way to incorparate a good dmg from holy fire I would of.

Have fun man.

Maniphesto

01-05-2006, 20:37

whats up man?

Yeah, im showing my AR topping out at about 9.X K right now, kinda low but I don't really have much problem hitting the enemies.

What kinda stats are you looking at with your pally? life, AR, damage etc.??
Also in terms of charms, i have a few defensive aura charms with life. If im correct you cant increase synergies with +skill charms right? so it would be better if i could get my hands on some combat GC's? I dont really think offensive auras would be any good since convic is the only one were using and lvl 25 is enough for me on that.

Maniphesto

01-05-2006, 21:35

I've been testing out this build with ebotd zerker and my killing speed is faster then last wish by a noticible amount.

niner

01-05-2006, 22:11

Im not a stats guy especially when there is soooo many variables in this build with added dmg from auras,elemental added dmg, physical added dmg combined with conviction and all the CTC's spells and variations on gear selections. So many that dont even show up on char screen.

I show
1613 life 1683 on gimmer switch
5355 ar
15,636 def with lvl 20 holy shield and eth sacred targe
1653-4242 zeal dmg
850-8442 throw dmg

I suppose these just physical dmgs...

If I recall when I made a hammy that + skill items boosted synergies for chosen skills. Im not sure if they boost for item granted skills, I dont think so.

ZeroUnderOne

03-06-2006, 05:15

Would maxing fanat instead of convict, and using an infinity merc be a bad idea?

niner

03-06-2006, 21:06

Would maxing fanat instead of convict, and using an infinity merc be a bad idea?

Infinity gives a lvl 12 conviction -85% res all and -45-55% light res.

A max conviction as a skill will give -150% to all resists. Better dmg for throwing at the nasties with your gimmers as it does elemental dmg from all 3 elements not just lightning dmg. Also better if you play with any party as they may not all be lightning attackers.It breaks down defense as well making you able to hit with less ar. Furthermore it was pointed out that a maxed conviction overrides Uber Mephistos negating its effect on you.

adamthezeek

13-06-2006, 06:59

niner

13-06-2006, 18:39

Hmmm cool build, but I am confused, why not vengeance? I know its an Avenger build if you do that, but isnt that better than straight up Lightning Resist? Since your not using holy shock anyways besides for extra weapon damage? Or am I not catching on to something?

Vengence requires a bit of mana for the attack. If you come across a pack of mana leechers you will be rendered pretty much useless to normal attacking when your mana runs out. Vengence also only hits one target at a time dealing out tremendous elem dmg from all 3 sources. Its like driving a slow moving tank, you can get er done but takes a long time. On the other hand zeal provides 5 hits per attack with only 2 mana points spent+ Zeal gives more ar enabling you to hit your targets more often than vengence making you kill faster and leeching more which keeps you alive.

The reason for the maxed light resist is that for one it gives you the 95 resist on lightning dmg. Couple that with a t-gods and the absorb it makes all lightning dmg that monsters deal out to you heal you.

Its also a synergy for the holy shock aura(s) granted by wearing dream helm when zealing (lvl 15), and on your weapon switch of dream shield and gimmershreds makes for a lvl 30 holy shock synergized with the max lightning res+ the maxed conviciton=Stronger holy shock pulses and extra lightning dmg from your gimmershred thrown at enemies in IM casting areas, therefore enabling you to run the Chaos Santuary and Worldstone keep lvls with a viable tri-elemental+physical attack heavy on the lightning that nothing has any immunities to, and not even having to worry about the instant death that IM provides melee chars.

ZeroUnderOne

15-06-2006, 13:14

Would Faith Shadow bow be the best choice for merc? 2 ave dmg lower than crus/hyrda, but 10speed faster.

niner

15-06-2006, 17:57

Would Faith Shadow bow be the best choice for merc? 2 ave dmg lower than crus/hyrda, but 10speed faster.

I actually ammended it a few posts down that the Great Bow would be the ultimate for the ias and dmg thanks to Pobab for the merc ias charts link
http://diabloii.net/townsfolk/mercias/rias.shtml

The faster bow gets off the hydras faster if you plan to use the dragon armor on merc. I also looked into achieving max breakpoint for ias and came up with Andys visage and Crow Caw armor to get that but it didnt seem nearly as fun as Dream and Dragon for merc. If you get a cold merc and use Dream Helm and Dragon then she becomes a tri-elemental threat. Not so much from the lvl 15 holy fire/shock pulses but from the added dmg's plus the chance to casts hydras/confuse/venom. the +5% to max lightning on dragon is sexy too so merc can ahcieve 80% max res on the lightning which really helps on the soul/gloams situations.

snipe_the_snipe

23-06-2006, 10:24

sounds good sean but also sounds like alot of work since im just returning so ima need some help ^ - wink wink

snipe_the_snipe

23-06-2006, 10:24

oops double post sorry guys

CreepyFingers

02-07-2006, 02:34

I must say this is one of the best chars i ever made. i mostly play PvM and paladin is prob my favorite class so far. i dont even have all the gear... this what i got

lw pb (had a very nice lw z and sacraficed it because of repair costs)
dream bv
e exile
highlords
tgods
raven frost
treks
arch nigma

i dont have a merc and im having trouble getting ahold of a merc faith. heh but i tell you as long as my sword is swinging i wont die (sometimes i die :embarassed: ) but nice light res i dont really fear souls even in helli havent even started looking for glimmer... i should prob also rebuild pally because of new reqs for pb n stead of zerker

also how much life do you have because thats one of my biggest problems and with no cta on switch?
and how much damage do you do?
mine with the pb is 1.2-2.9k or something like that.(i need fana aura badly cuz its kind of slow killing)

heh my first post and i actually joined to give props on build its alot of fun and i can actually pvp halfassly with just this setup... heh pwn my noob friends :D

niner

05-07-2006, 17:14

Good to hear man!

Once you get the Fana from merc you will be unstoppable. I suggest making in a Great Bow for the speed on it.

I show
1613 life 1683 on gimmer switch
5355 ar
15,636 def with lvl 20 holy shield and eth sacred targe
1653-4242 zeal dmg
850-8442 throw dmg

Alot of damages dont show up on char screen like chance to casts, holy shock pulses etc...

If you are going to re-build I suggest getting an enigma in a breast plate or a mage plate for the low str req on them bp=30 mp=55 that way you can use less points into str and more into vit. With the archon you are getting 200-400 def out of it when you could be getting 130-210 base life.

CreepyFingers

06-07-2006, 16:53

i just got faith the other night. i traded for all peices and everything couldent get a great bow but meh. anyway its true i compleatly destroy everything with fana aura... it brings my damage up to past 4k. i almost have as much life as you im about that 200 off because of the arch.

i do need to rebuild because i dont have light res maxed (how important is this?) or holy sheild for some reason i maxed zeal n sac, plus i just got a dru torch on my din... (lol it was free :grin: ) i think i may try n trade it for a ptorch so i can take down stg a bit more but thats all to come.

once again gj with build fun times

chek

06-07-2006, 21:34

Niner how fast do you clear baals minions and baal himself with this build? Is it faster than hammerdin or light sorc?

CreepyFingers

07-07-2006, 18:48

minions are nothing for me. i cut through them like butter.

lite sorc is prob way faster because of static but baal cant attack fast enough to kill you when you have fana aura on with all the leech life you got goin on from life tap. i just press n hold click and baals ded in a min. ive actually been doin baal runs myself and so far i found a nice eschutas :D.

now that i have merc i feel spoiled because when she dies everything goes a hell of alot slower.

niner

07-07-2006, 23:43

Niner how fast do you clear baals minions and baal himself with this build? Is it faster than hammerdin or light sorc?

A typical Hammy can tele a whole Baal run in 4-6 min or even less depending on how soon they find the stairs to the throne room. No doubt the most efficient pally for getting to the throne room, and raping Baal for his loot. as far as light sorc I havent played any sorc since .09 so I couldnt say.

WK lvls 2 and 3 and chamber lvl are hi TC mf areas and provide good enough loot worth doing as there are very high numbers of monsters to kill + pack bosses. My opinion is that the greater masses of monsters killed makes for more drops, and the more items drop, then the better chance you have of getting the sweet stuff. I compare it to like a pit run with a beautiful Tc lvl 99 Baal drop at the end.

The Wateverdin takes a different approach to a Baal run. As a Zealot with zero fcr and few mana tele around to find holes, he happily kills everything on the way. That will take him roughly 6-8 min longer than the Hammy. Once he gets there then its gravy.

Here is how I do this.

OK heres the deal. All worldstone keep and throne of destruction lvls spawn 3 different monster types on each floor.

WK lvl 2-

You can either zeal the whole way or holy shock the whole way. Depends on the creatures in there if they arent any lightning resists then holy shock emm all. 1-3 pulses dispatches any within the range of your conviciton. I usually zeal the whole way here but will use switch if they are all non light resistant.

WK lvl 3-

Before you go into this floor make sure you have your gimmers/dream switch on. When you can identify all 3 types of monsters spawned on this level and you determine that there are no IM casting nights, then you may switch to your preffered zeal weapon and zeal this level till you find the hole. Or Holy shock em.

If you do encounter casters the simply throw at them with gimmers. It takes 2-3 hits to kill them with direct hits from gimmers at max conviciton.
Allow your merc do some work as well with casting hydras and summoning re-animates which will block for bout 15 seconds if needed. If it ever gets hairy it wont last for long. Once you sart taking hits (which you can handle)
then the high % CTC confuse usually kicks in and they fight each other which is really fun.

Throne of Destruction-

Same method as WK lvl 3. Make sure when you get to the Throne room that you redeem all the IM casters before you start this fight because they can be re-animated in the 2nd wave and cast IM on you while your zealing minions.

Clearing the minions

1st wave- Zeal Colenzo where he spawns 3 times till dead. his minions will run away then come back to you in 2-3 secs in their final suicidal move.

2nd wave-Zeal Achmel where he spawns till he dies then switch to cleanse and zeal out the rest of minor bosses with cleanse aura till they die and poison wears off you and merc. Then switch to dual dreams and holy shock pesky cold casting skellies if they arent dead yet already.

3rd wave- Zeal Bartuc where he spawns till dead staying in the middle of theyre hydras absorbing the fire dmg as you have a nice 80 res to FD. Merc dont like it too well but she will run away as soon as they spawn so if you stay in the fire shell be np.

4th wave- This is where Baals Decrep will affect your melee attacks slowing you down and greatly reducing your defense. So I would suggest taking this fight back out of range of Baals Decrepify casting range. If you count 2 pillars back from where they spawn its out of decrep range and the monsters will run right to you as soon as they spawn. Aim for Ventar. The rest will die on your other hits.

5th Wave- Same as 4th wave. Aim for Listor till he and all others die.

Once you get to the Throne room clearing it is easy I would say Whateverdin is 9/10 the speed as Hammy to clear this room and all minions.

Killing Baal himself? Id say that Hammy is 9/10 the speed of the Whateverdin with high CB%. Zealing Baal and Smiting Baal takes the same amount of time with Whateverdin. Either way is fast.

Creepyfingers- The light res is a synergy for holy shock dmg to dreams, and melee attacks+ adds to your light max up to 95% which make total lightning ownage.

If you feel like your Holy shock pulses arent doing the job well enough then yes re-build and max this skill. All depends how perfect you want your Whateverdin to be.

For merc. most of the time she stays out of the way or runs back when in any harm. however some areas may have fana,cursing fast monsters that give no chance for her to do this.

Use enigma the way that a summoner does with minions to keep a naughty merc in line. Only thing is making up Pallys res loss as enigma has none. But isnt really any prob to stock up on res charms till you get high res dreams.

Rynas

02-08-2006, 22:58

Does this build break down w/o Dream and a Fanat merc? I'm non-ladder :( mostly playing open/single-player with my gf until school starts...

niner

03-08-2006, 19:55

Does this build break down w/o Dream and a Fanat merc? I'm non-ladder :( mostly playing open/single-player with my gf until school starts...

I wouldnt advise you to make this build without them. Overall would be too slow as a Zealot without Fana. The stats on dual Dreams as a synergized lvl 30 Holy Shock combined with Conviction+the stats are priceless for melee Pally.

Id wait till the ladder ends and these RW's become more available. Or make a ladder account if theres enough time b4 reset....

ioupainmax

02-09-2006, 02:35

sir goatscelot

26-09-2006, 19:23

I had the chance last night to play with Niner's Whateverdin Paly. I promised I would send a bump and pimp his guide a bit lol.

We went from act3 hell to act5 baal while carrying anywhere from 1-5 players along the way. If you can afford it( sorry Niner but it is exspensive lol), it may be the last Paladin you make. Versatility and survivabilty are all excellent..not mention hefty mf.

So if you have the means, do give it a try.

There you go Niner..as promised!

koeraokse

26-09-2006, 19:54

actually your post is not a bump, bump is when you post into a thread that is lets say in page 47 and after your post it will be on 1st again :azn:

but now we know hes guide is good and I might even try it...

:shocked:
*priit2

sir goatscelot

26-09-2006, 20:08

mckfroig

28-09-2006, 02:39

Hey Niner,

Great build and it looks like it's a blast (one day if I ever get enough of this stuff, I might give it a whirl!) I was wondering if perhaps instead of tgods you use razortail for the pierce... maybe that would really boost your kill speed when throwing! You would sacrifice survival though (95 res lightning is so good). Just a thought. Keep at it!

-Mckfroig

niner

29-09-2006, 18:42

im not sure if someone mentioned it already, but the question on the first page about mercs with infinity, i don't think the -45-55% LR works for you, it only applies to the merc so in any case it is definately better for you to have conviction on

Even better... But is best to have a lvl 25+ Conviction than a lvl 12 anyhow.

sir goatscelot- Thx man! glad to be of help. is all I do anymore since ecxonomy went screwy I havent done any trading since Feb/March when HI runes became like candy that melted in your stash, not in your hands.

koeraokse- You havent already?

mckfroig- The main point of the T-gods is total lightning ownage. This build has max light res anyhow, but T-gods also absorbs lightning which in effect heals you when any lightning spawning creature like black souls,gloams, lightning enchanted attack you.

mckfroig

29-09-2006, 23:10

Oh, trust me, I love the lightning immunity! I have a dreamer with max light res (95) and with the 15 absorb on tgods... let's just say the gloams are good for me because if I get in health trouble, they're right there to heal me up.

But yeah, the razortail was just a suggestion and something to give a try if you wanted to see! I know pierce is great for any thrower, so just wondering if it would work!

Mckfroig

niner

29-09-2006, 23:27

niner

29-09-2006, 23:27

HCKull

27-10-2006, 21:59

Make sure when you get to the Throne room that you redeem all the IM casters before you start this fight because they can be re-animated in the 2nd wave and cast IM on you while your zealing minions.

what does this mean ?

niner

29-10-2006, 06:50

what does this mean ?

In the throne of destruction where Baal's minions spawn in 5 waves. The 2nd wave re-animates undead Achmel the cursed and boys will re-animate any Dolls, Souls, and Oblivion Knights corpses that may be lying around on the floor. Make sure to redeem these bodies if any Oblivion Knights spawn this level else you will die from Iron Maiden while zealing the minions.

RssDiablo

16-01-2007, 05:14

Clervis

16-01-2007, 15:38

hey niner, big fan of ur build. but i just had a question about ubering with it cuz i've been having some trouble. I can uber with it but its a struggle. Once i start smiting the bosses i just tank it and pretty much cant die, but i often die before im able to touch them. i have maxed resists, but i misused like 40 stat pts extra into dex and str because i didnt have gear aside from the getgo, would that make a huge difference in life? also im using dracs atm cuz i couldnt find ur specified crafted gloves yet although would that 20ias and 10 cb and lifeleech be way more efficeint than teh drac life tap? also, most of my inventory is 7mfscs. What would u recommend as best most balanced charm scheme for ubering and baaling. some of the problem may be lag though as i have a slow computer. any help would be greatly appreciated, im also thinkin about solving the problem by switching in a 6bocta/spirit for gimmershred and dream just for uber prebuffing. But all in all he works great, im just planning on remaking him and fixing everyproblem ive had so the new whateverdin will flawless, and any help would be greatly appreciated. thnx
rss
*caedes

There's a few ways to address your problem. First, get the uber's alone so you don't have to attack them all at once. Second, use to life charms, the mf won't help you here. Third, yes, CtA would be the ideal switch for this situation. Fourth, it can be better to walk to them, not run, because your defense and blocking drops when you're running. Fifth, if you don't have Exile, Drac's are the only gloves you'll want. Sixth, if you can't get to them because you have to wait for lifetap to kick in, try buying a wand w/ lifetap charges, casting it, and then attack; or because it is much faster, use zeal until the lifetap activates. Seventh, see one through six.

RssDiablo

17-01-2007, 03:59

thnx for the help, i am wearing a 45res ev exile though btw, so i already have ctc lifetap from exile and lwpb already. And thnx for the tip on the running vs. walking but could u explain that a little more? cuz i usually just vigor my way around all the minions. also, would u happen to know the recipe for those crafted gloves i mentioned above? i know it would take a lot of tries to make and a ton of each ingredient rune/jewel or wutever, but i can afford, just dont know how to make. theyre 20ias,10cb,lifeleech, and mf if possible. And yeah i know 20s for life instead of mf, but i mostly use this char for mf, so i'll see how much impact remaking him has on life first. probably get another 300+ more. that with cta should be helpful
thnx again
rss

niner

17-01-2007, 19:21

Although Vortex is a nice shield you can save 62 more points by getting a Sacred Targe by str req. That with the 40 others wasted gives 102 base more for life*3= 306 more base life without losing any smite dmg. You lose some def wich I believe to be minor as you have defiance and holy shield giving plenty enough. You also gain a higher block rate with a Sacred Targe meaning less into dex for even more life. I run mine at around 1600 life without any CTA.

I believe CTA to be non-essential to any well built Pally that leeches. Give it to your Sorc and save that extra stash room for your Baal drops.

By using Dracs gloves you lose an extra 20 ias+life+res+stats over blood gloves. When you uber you lose merc immediatly, therefore the extra 20 ias is needed for an extra frame rate on attack to give better chance at casting off the LT. If you want to get the last bp you can use the Grief pb but then you lose all the cool stuff that goes with LW. I use LWpb and dont need to switch out anything just to do the Uber Trist. I just tele on Meph first, then take care of whoever is next closest till they all done.

For charm setup I use Enigma for the mf Whateverdin version and need to make up alot of res so I use mostly 7mfsc's with max res's which is another project in itself as they are very hard to find.

Assuming you already have decent anni and torch;
7mf+ any typical melee stats like life,ar,max dmg,elem dmgs(beside lightning) will do the trick.
Also be sure to carry a +2 to cold dmg sc for more freeze targets added to your zeal/throw attacks

Whateverdin for magic find is more challenging and costly and very item specific on what to use for survivabilty vs drops balance. Very rewarding in the end game though.

Nef+P Ruby+Junky Jewel+ magic Heavy,Sharkskin or Vampirebone gloves
Gloves can be gambled off of vendors. As a master crafter I never makegloves in heavy gloves only sharkin or vampirebones cuz the def is so low in heavies that when I make some godly gloves I'm always dissapointed that the def can be under 20 I try to craft them as I mf cuz im always finding nefs,junkys and rubys when I do. Baal dropped gloves can spawn an extra stats on them giving 7 instead of 6 sometimes so they are best to use.

culpjd

02-02-2007, 11:45

niner

02-02-2007, 20:13

Niner,

great guide by the way, i love it. Im having some trouble though, you do way more dmg than me and have alot more AR, can you tell me what i did wrong.

i do

2400-4500 throw damage
2100-3400 zeal
4338 AR after mercs fanat

these are rough averages but what am i doing wrong?

Can you list your equipment?

I use enigma but its hard to make up the res lost, but it adds tons of str to add physical dmg I also use War Travs with more str and added dmg. And of course mf....

culpjd

03-02-2007, 00:48

Can you list your equipment?

I use enigma but its hard to make up the res lost, but it adds tons of str to add physical dmg I also use War Travs with more str and added dmg. And of course mf....

Sure I can,

Helm: 20 Resis Dream
Ammy: Highlords
Weapon: 375/70 LW PB
Shield: 44+ Resis Etheral Exile Vortex
Switch; 190% Gimmers/47 Resis Dream Sacred Targe
Armor: Light Plate Enigma
Gloves: Blood Gloves with 20% IAS/3%LL/9%CB/+5Str/+14Life (i think 1 or 2 more mods)
Ring1: 222/20 Raven
Ring2: Rare DL with AR and Resis
Belt: TGods
Boots: Gore Riders

Charms: Anni - P Torch - 9x 15 Resis GC /W Dex - 8x 100 pdsc /w life

thats it i think

niner

21-02-2007, 22:01

Only things I can see that may be different is my merc faith is max fana. I use various 7mf+ar/res sc's, max ar raven,111ar on ring,210% gimmers. I collected perf or close to perf stat items religiously. I use a sacred targe instead of vortex but that shouldnt matter if anything you put more into dex than I did to get max block. I messed up my firewall and forgot password so I cant log in to check stats. I cant see anything wrong with your char secpt for some minor detail perfection stuffs. You should be rock-n-rollin.

nikstykal

25-03-2007, 18:04

can you describe how you do ubers with this build? thanks

niner

25-03-2007, 18:42

can you describe how you do ubers with this build? thanks

Sure.

I use enigma so I teleport to right on top of mephisto in his room first, then smite him down using conviction with exile, then Baal or Diablo whoever shows first till they all dead. Merc most likely will croak right off the bat so you lose fana, but your convicton will override Mephs making his non-effective.

If you dont use Enigma then you may want to lure them out and fight them one-on-one. Just name lock smite on them.

nikstykal

26-03-2007, 01:57

ok, thats what i was confused about - keeping the merc alive. i'm still having trouble finding some crafted blood gloves, how much do those normally go for? also, what is your smite dmg, as mine is just around 900...

niner

27-03-2007, 07:35

Merc does fine in whole game cept trist, as she stays out of harms way usually casting confuse if taken a hit. Then dropping back and making a returned or few to block. Those gloves can go for some spend sky the limit on em dep on str/dex mainly. I craft any vampirebone/sharkskin gloves I find when/as I play. You can obtain them gambling quite easy and the recipe is nef+p ruby+blue gloves and junky jewel. nefs are cheap..... my smite dmg shows 750-1200. Zeal is the main attack. Smite for ubers. I find that zeal drops Baal bout as fast as smite does with last wish.

nikstykal

28-03-2007, 02:32

thanks a lot man. Zealer is complete, 80-80-95-80 res, lots of damage and can do ubers in less than five minutes. Pvm is just as good, especially with merc. Thanks for idea

Jormasteri

24-04-2007, 17:15

Great guide, my Pala is still on nightmare, lvl 77 and planning to make the move to hell. Actually I've used both your guide and some other, gear choice is mostly from your guide apart from few items I haven't managed to get. (Amulet is rare pala amu, armor is Duress, and those gloves need some more crafting, using Laying of Hands atm).
He is doing fine, or should I say great, though he is a bit weak against physical damage monsters. I've been carrying String of Ears with me to use on switch, since my health is a bit low still. Or so it seems.. :thumbsup:

Rane-

02-06-2007, 08:11

Does anyone find the lack of DR a problem? I've been using verds instead of tgods on occassion and I seem to take a lot more damage with tgods on.

niner

03-06-2007, 18:06

Does anyone find the lack of DR a problem? I've been using verds instead of tgods on occassion and I seem to take a lot more damage with tgods on.

You should be leeching enough to keep the bulb full with lifetaps going off to make up any dmgs taken. Some problems may be not enough life to sustain till these spells cast cuz of high requirement shield and armors and base points into vit. Then some dr may be useful. however if you plan to go anywhere that Black Souls or Gloams are, then the lightning absorb on t-gods will be your best friend and the way to go. Also the lightning enchanted monsters will be nulled. I run Enigma that provides some 8%dr which is a somewhat difficult armor to use with this because you lose the resists that other popular zealot armors may have which then need to be made up with resist charms. but the enigma also provides tele to keep merc inline if she gets lost,str to add to base physical dmg,life, and of course the mf.

My pick is T-gods to avoid the almost instant deaths to Souls/Gloams even with the max light resists. But if you're not planning on going into to these places then sure Dungo/String could be more beneficial. But i like to be the guy in the Baal game that whenever all else says "Oh no souls" I can say np man.

Rane-

04-06-2007, 03:27

Yeah I still use Tgods main it was just food for thought. I have plenty of life and with lifetap on nothing kills you eevn if you have -100res. It's just for when you're waiting for lifetap to trigger, my res is fine but 8% DR means there are some things in Hell (Frenzytaurs, Snakes, Death Lords) that do have the ability to kill you if you aren't watching.

niner

04-06-2007, 17:08

Oh yeah I almost forgot bout fade gives an additional 11%dr if you use LW.

The only problem I ever have with the snakes is that they die too fast sometimes to leech em. Use tactic of getting right into their faces with zeal so that they cannot charge you. They also die quite quickly with HS pulses if you would rather keep your distance.

Frenzytaurs,Death lords I just straight up zeal em. PI or not you have enough elem dmg to take care of them and can still leech of of the non-boss PI. If you are amped and they have fana+might then take it slowly and seperate em by running/tele back some till the auras seperate. Then ease way back in. If you are in an IM area then you can retreat some to seperate from OK's then switch to zeal and finish em off if they got the bosses with the nasty curses/mods, else just stay in there and throw/pulse em.

TurkeyLurkey

05-06-2007, 08:15

niner

19-06-2007, 20:28

Niner I am wondering if you could help me on my setup.
I am going to use Dream Helm. Dream Shield. BeastZ. For my Armour I have either Coh, Fort, Or durress. For Boots Gore Ridders and Dracs Glove wise. I don't know belt right now. But will I get ripped apart in hell with no damage reduction?

Although this isnt the Whateverdin build, I say go with the COH mainly for that 8%dr and rese's make sure that you check the fhr table for the exact breakpoints you need out of your dreams to lower stun lengths.If you can get enough ar,leech,fhr then you wont need alot of dr to get through hell mode cuz you will be killing and leeching. I believe that T-gods is the best belt on the pvm because of the lightning immunity that it provides as the lightning attacking creatures are very strong and is usually coming at you from many sides when you arent in range to melee attack. Try out the SOE and the Dungo to see if it makes any difference but I think that you will always go back to the T-gods everytime you die from a Black Soul/Gloam attack.

garion

20-06-2007, 05:18

sweet niner...ive assembled the faith crusader bow now...im working on the last two runes of the lastwish...and then i can start on this whateverdin =P...oh that and bumming a nigma off another one of my chars =)

Dbsoccerkid

08-07-2007, 00:40

Im gonna try the whateverdin build hopefully it turns out good!

Dbsoccerkid

08-07-2007, 00:42

:azn: Im gonna try the whateverdin build hopefully it turns out good!:lipsrsealed:

niner

04-09-2007, 23:50

:azn: Im gonna try the whateverdin build hopefully it turns out good!:lipsrsealed:

It will np!

Gary dont see you on much anymore. If you need some that NL gear gimmie hollar. I just got mine done on the new ladder already, just working on the final mf touches so that I can use him more often for mfing. LMK

MaStAViC

19-09-2007, 03:56

And thanks for adding it to the guide section. I will make up a updated version with some added info on ghetto gears, merc info, play strategies and such in the future.
Just to make sure, you haven't update this guide, have you?

Also, can you give us a mini update if there are any skill and gear changes since you posted this guide? A lot of replies tend to change a few things. And - one last thing - if I would rather not focus this Paladin around magic find, are there any gear alternatives that will make this Paladin an even stronger PvM/Uber killer?

Thanks!
Victor Ly

lendial

19-09-2007, 21:10

from personal experience with a budgetdin(lol) ubering mostly solo with rare sorc tele help: using a general smiter (holyshield fana smite defiance)

wpn-replace last wish with grief phase, much cheaper and much stronger for general pvm, for ubers theres only a slight if any decrease in killing speed.

helm-you can replace dream with guils face, crushing blow,deadly, fhr, str, simply too cheap and too effective. the crushing blow from this item ALONE is more than enough to take down any high hp monster

shield-you can save some runes by using upped hoz. the lost defense is really unimportant as my budgetdin(154 ed hoz) sports 20k defense and can evade most attacks. the life tap is not an issue with a weapons swap or dracs. of course if you are swimming in runes , by all means get an exile (preferbly eth as well).

the first time i did ubers i was using razors edge, un upped hoz, shaftstop, guils face, dracs, gores, rare belt, rare rings with res, amulet +3 to combat skills and a lifetap wand on swap. it wasnt easy but i was able to eventualy smite down the ubers. total cost is less than 1 hr+10pgems.

after getting grief phase blade, fortitude armour, kiras guardian i was able kill ubers without any difficulty. total cost is about 2.5 hrs.

lastwish exile dream etc etc is about 10. however this build has the power to do chaos runs and bases damage around auras/eledmg and convict which i assume you dont really care about.

niner

20-09-2007, 00:27

Victor- I havent really re-composed the guide, but I have fully addressed any comments by replying to them throughout the thread. Maybe someday soon when this new ladder economy gets so bad or boring ill find the time to do so.

The only thing that I would suggest to change from the original write up is making mercs bow in a great bow for her ias bp. And possibly adding several more to Salvation to increase HS if you like. That just depends if you want to sacrafice some from Zeal,Holy Shield,Sacrafice for less def,ar,base melee dmg etc...for a slightly stronger Holy Shock pulse. Is a preferance thing and should be thought out before making your new char.

The wearing of the either Duress or COH for armor, gore riders for boots, the use of grief for weapon, and the changing out mf sc's for melee/life/dmg scs will do it for optimizing the whoop-*** factor of this build in the Uber
Trist Department. But I never had any problem doing it with the mf version too just takes slightly longer to do.

Lendial- This build requires minimum Faith merc to successfully be a Zealot that uses Conviction as the main aura which enables the char to maximize the elemental dmg from his attacks and the speed/ar to be able to hit often enough. As far as LW vs Grief. Ive used both and either of them kill as fast as the other without much noticeable difference. I just prefer the LW for the style points and all the really cool stuff it does for this build end game.

MaStAViC

20-09-2007, 00:50

Victor- I havent really re-composed the guide, but I have fully addressed any comments by replying to them throughout the thread. Maybe someday soon when this new ladder economy gets so bad or boring ill find the time to do so.
Thank you for replying. I did read all of your replies and they really did help a lot.

The only thing that I would suggest to change from the original write up is making mercs bow in a great bow for her ias bp.
I am looking for a Great Bow instead of a Crusader or Hydra Bow (I was thinking about Great Bow before I read your reply anyway).

And possibly adding several more to Salvation to increase HS if you like. That just depends if you want to sacrafice some from Zeal,Holy Shield,Sacrafice for less def,ar,base melee dmg etc...for a slightly stronger Holy Shock pulse. Is a preferance thing and should be thought out before making your new char.
Sorry, am I supposed to add skill points to Salvation and Holy Shock at all? I didn't see you point that out in the initial post.
Edit: Just realized that Holy Shock would be from Dream items. I do not need to add any skill points to Holy Shock, right? Also, would one point into Salvation be a good idea?

The wearing of the either Duress or COH for armor, gore riders for boots, the use of grief for weapon, and the changing out mf sc's for melee/life/dmg scs will do it for optimizing the whoop-*** factor of this build in the Uber
Trist Department. But I never had any problem doing it with the mf version too just takes slightly longer to do.
Would Chains of Honor be a better armor for Uber Trist and general PvM than Enigma? What about Grief and Last Wish (I can afford either of them)?

Newbie Paladin Questions:
I found someone who has an ethereal bugged 4-Socket 450Defense Vortex Shield with 45%resistances (legit) and am considering trading for it. However, you pointed out that the strength requirement may not be worth it (a difference of 62 strength when compared to Sacred Targe). Additionally, Sacred Targes have a 60% base Chance to Block, while Vortex Shields have a 51%, which would mean I would need more dexterity. Should I look for a Sacred Targe to get this Vortex Shield?

The best helmet I can make Dream in would be a 3-socket 15%ED Bone Visage, right?

The best sword I can make the Grief or Last Wish in would be a 15%ED Phrase Blade, right?

Thanks a lot!
Victor Ly

niner

20-09-2007, 01:59

None into holy shock at all.

Dreams provide a lvl 30 Holy Shock and lightning resist synergizes it. Salvation synergizes it as well but to a lesser degree as lightning resist at only 4% per lvl vs 12% , and at the cost of less spent into Zeal and its synergy making your Zeal attacks less potent.

Hence the preferance of choice between stronger shock pulses when dreaming and added light dmg to your physical attacks vs a stronger physical attack and lighter shock pulses while dreaming. Cant go wrong either way works.

I prefer a higher physical attack with best chance to hit while im melee. I dont really need salvation for defense because I top out at 80/95/80 resist to tri-elements.

General PVM I prefer LW for the MF,CTC's fade,lifetap,Charged bolt,Might and has major CB so works as well as Grief on bosses/ubers.

I dont consider Enigma a very top notch armor for zealots that are hell bent for leather because although str is nice for melee the other stats are minor compared to other zealot armors with more melee friendly stats like Duress,COH, Fort among many other good zealot armors that are out there to choose from. I just enigma for the mf/str and the teleport now and then to get merc closer when they stray off or if I dont want to walk to the CS or something. If you use Enigma you dont have the mana to teleport like a caster long distances. You wont need to. Just kill everything in the way.

MaStAViC

20-09-2007, 02:34

Again, thanks for replying. I edited my post above a bit after I initially wrote it, and it seems like you may not have seen the edits. If possible, can you answer these questions for me as well? If I'm throwing too many questions your way, just let me know. Thanks!

I found someone who has an ethereal bugged 4-Socket 450Defense Vortex Shield with 45%resistances (legit) and am considering trading for it. Though it requires quite a bit more strength to wear and dexterity to reach maximum blocking, if I wear an Enigma armor, I could use the +Stength mod on the Enigma to help boost enough strength to use the Vortex shield. Any thoughts on this?

The best helmet I can make Dream in would be a 3-socket 15%ED Bone Visage, right?

The best sword I can make the Grief or Last Wish in would be a 15%ED Phrase Blade, right?

Thank you!

niner

20-09-2007, 07:00

I prefer Sacred Targe over Vortex personally for the extra life but alot of people like Vortex for the insane def and max smite dmg, just remember you will be wiffing 5 dmg as much as 80 with it. You may be able to trade it rather easily(?) for a ST. Vortex is doable if you dont want ST. You make Enigma in MP you need 55str for it. then at 110 str you get 20 more from t-gods, 10 from travs for 140. PB takes 126dex so keep that in mind as well when figuring what you ll need for block rate with your shield. Im sure theres a chart somewhere with it.

And ya on the BV and PB for the runewords Demonheads just look like crap.

MaStAViC

20-09-2007, 13:08

Going back and forth between Enigma and Chains of Honor. Enigma's most useful mod for this build seems to be the strength bonus, which does not rival the nice mods of Chains of Honor, as you pointed out. I'm a bit torn at the moment.

By "just remember you will be wiffing 5 dmg as much as 80 with it," what did you mean?

Thanks,
Victor Ly

ImmaMechE

21-09-2007, 23:53

The character is pretty sweet, I'm not gonna lie... But with all those auras, it's kinda hard to not have a great character...

Im sure you will also enjoy topping out at 95% lightning res and 80% of both cold and fire res.

Using the suggested equipment, you will probably NOT get this 95% resist lightning, so what good does having 95% max do you?
Quest = 30% all
Duress = 15% all
Exile = 45% all
Torch = 20% all
Anni = 20% all

Total = 130% All.

Sure, if you can get the fade from last wish to stay active, this will put you at about 80% resist all in hell (requiring a few charms to up lightning), however, from my experiences with my Tesladin - who has less armor (Probably 1/3 of this build) and a higher level fade (Treachery) - This is not reliable. And it only takes one time of running into a pack of gloams without Fade active to get demolished. This is also assuming that you have perfect resists gear. If you have average to slightly above average equipment, you're losing 10% to 20% resist all.

I notice that far too often guides focus on the offensive power of a build... Certainly this makes for a great looking character on paper (or LCD screen), and it crushes most opponents... Hoewver, this character will run through 90% of the game and then they run into gloams... Certainly you can avoid these enemies and situations, so it's not the end of the world... Anyway, the build really looks good...

But... when you spend 11 HRs + Runes equaling a twelth... ???

niner

22-09-2007, 01:35

You forgot to add these to your equation.

Rings can add up to 15res all just blue. Crafts and Rares can spawn numerous combos for res.

Highlords provides 35% for light res and duress has 30% more for cold res. That leaves mainly fire and poison to be addressed.

Dreams have 5-20res all + up to 45 more for dream shield. I have found through the massive wasting of JAH and PUL runes, that it is indeed better to look for a higher res dream for sale than to try make one.

Your crafted gloves can spawn up to another 30 res in 2 elements.

Anything else you need can be made up with a few charms based on what you are lacking from your ring and gloves to make max res all.

Fade isnt something to be relied upon here for survival but more of as a luxury for DR and stacked res. As far as gloams and souls go with your 95%lr and t-gods. You will be the one to show them who the true lightning master is garanteed. Any lightning dmg you encounter throughout the game will heal you unless you are convicted by a pack boss or lower res cursed by OK's.

If you run into OKs and Souls at same time in worldstone chamber your fine throwing to kill souls and HS pulsing for the rest, just watch out for the lower res curses that the OK's occasionally throw at you and medic that curse off with cleanse or till it changes or till confuse kicks in. Dont be so gung ho when you are throwing as the strategy is different than zealing. Between you and merc is like 45%ctc confuse if she has dream. she will cast hydras with dragon and has 10% chance for re-animate which gives you 1 or more skellies for like 30 secs which is plenty enough time for you and merc to clear things out as it takes all the dmg.

MaStAViC

22-09-2007, 03:25

Fade isnt something to be relied upon here for survival but more of as a luxury for DR and stacked res. As far as gloams and souls go with your 95%lr and t-gods. You will be the one to show them who the true lightning master is garanteed. Any lightning dmg you encounter throughout the game will heal you unless you are convicted by a pack boss or lower res cursed by OK's.
I'd like to post a testimony that the Paladin I built according to this guide, though only about 75% complete, have no problems whatsoever with Gloams/Black Souls.

Niner, thank you so much for your help. The Paladin is working out great so far for general PvM, though I am not done with it yet. I finally decided to go with Chains of Honor instead of Enigma because of the resistances and nice mods offered by the CoH. The Paladin is currently level 86, but I am starting over with a new one because I messed up the stat points by quite a bit... haha. I'm a major Paladin newbie and didn't realize that Holy Shield had to be cast and that it isn't passive, so I put way too many stat points into dexterity =P

Thanks again for ALL your help!
Victor Ly

Pacalypse

23-09-2007, 23:30

Hi, first of all...Great Guide/Great Build!!!

Got a quick question. I don't think there is a part in this thread about getting the organs? Fighting lilith, uber duriel and izual, how can this build handle them, viable?

ImmaMechE

24-09-2007, 07:57

My point is simply this... When you spend 12 + high runes, not counting the cost of the socketables (~1 Hr) , a decent Paladin torch (~2 Hr), and annihilus (~1 Hr), your character better be able to handle everything in the game! (AND, that is not counting you mercenaries equipment, which I assume uses a couple high runes to acheive some of your auras.) I mean, for christ's sake, your running 7 different auras!!! You spent about 20 high runes on this build... Do you realize that...?

I can build a smiter which will spank the ubers just as well as this (better, actually) with less than a single high rune. The most expensive piece for gear for him would be dracul's grasp (goes for about an Um), and that's just not really negotiable. Everything else is in the Pgems range.

If you want to write a guide, write a guide to making a character hell viable/survivable for less the cost of than 2 or 3 high runes. But for christ's sake, anyone who can afford it can throw the godliest equipment on a single character and run over the game...

niner

24-09-2007, 19:48

I can build a smiter which will spank the ubers just as well as this (better, actually) with less than a single high rune. The most expensive piece for gear for him would be dracul's grasp (goes for about an Um), and that's just not really negotiable. Everything else is in the Pgems range.

Ya and that smiter will sit on the shelf until needed for ubers too because he cant even make it to Baal or Diablo. This one is designed to play the whole game, and look really cool doing it. Not as an Uber Tristram specialist for pgs. Else I would have written it that way.

My point is simply this... When you spend 12 + high runes, not counting the cost of the socketables (~1 Hr) , a decent Paladin torch (~2 Hr), and annihilus (~1 Hr), your character better be able to handle everything in the game! (AND, that is not counting you mercenaries equipment, which I assume uses a couple high runes to acheive some of your auras.) I mean, for christ's sake, your running 7 different auras!!! You spent about 20 high runes on this build... Do you realize that...?

Actually my last one I wouldnt sell his gear for anything less than 100hrs worth.

If you want to write a guide, write a guide to making a character hell viable/survivable for less the cost of than 2 or 3 high runes. But for christ's sake, anyone who can afford it can throw the godliest equipment on a single character and run over the game....

If you think you can come up with a better guide, with an original idea for a classy character based on years of knowledge of the game then please do so. Or if you have some constructive criticism, please leave it. If you cant, then go somewhere else. Show some class.

MaStAViC

02-10-2007, 11:17

If you want to write a guide, write a guide to making a character hell viable/survivable for less the cost of than 2 or 3 high runes. But for christ's sake, anyone who can afford it can throw the godliest equipment on a single character and run over the game...
If you think you can come up with a better guide, with an original idea for a classy character based on years of knowledge of the game then please do so. Or if you have some constructive criticism, please leave it. If you cant, then go somewhere else. Show some class.
I think this guide is great. In response to ImmaMechE's comment of "anyone who can afford it can throw the godliest equipment on a single character and run over the game," well, then I would consider this Whateverdin the "single character" that I am "throw[ing] the godliest equipment on [to] run over the game." I know that even if I had the godliest equipment, without knowledge of a Paladin build, I may not be able to put a good Paladin together, which is why I treasure this guide so much.

Thanks, niner,
Victor Ly

MaStAViC

03-10-2007, 15:45

I may need more specific help with my Whateverdin now...

For the most part, I really, really like the Paladin, who is level 90 now. He's a load of fun to play and it's nice to see how impressed people are when they see all the auras and such. However, the Paladin tends to die rather easily when he gets crowded by more than half a dozen strong monsters or so, and he kills monsters somewhat slowly. I cannot figure out why this is so.

Gear (Main):
Last Wish Phase Blade (made in a 15%ED sword)
Chains of Honor Dusk Shroud (made in a 15%ED armor)
Exile Sacred Rondache (made in a +43 to all Resistances shield)
Dream Bone Visage (made in a 14%ED helmet)
Thundergod's Vigor War Belt
Raven Frost Ring (20Dexterity, 220AR)
Gore Rider War Boots
Highlord's Amulet
Bul-Kathos' Wedding Band Ring (will change this out soon)
Darcul's Grasp Vampirebone Gloves (will change this out soon)
Annihilus
Hellfire Torch Large Charm

Gear (On Switch):
Dream Sacred Rondache (made in a +45 to all Resistances shield)
Gimmershred Flying Axe

Skills:
Sacrifice (20 Base; 25 with Items)
Zeal (20 Base; 25 with Items)
Conviction (16 Base; 21 with Items)
Resist Lightning (18 Base; 23 with Items)
Holy Shield (11 Base; 16 with Items)

Stats:
142 Strength
145 Dexterity (not maxed blocking yet, but am thinking my future gloves/ring will give me dexterity)
350 Vitality
50 Energy
95 Stat Points Remaining

Level 90
1345 life, 297 mana
Zeal Damage 1205-3513; 1417-3752 with Mercenary's level 15 Fanaticism
Defense 8601; 16461 with Holy Shield
94 Lightning Resistance; 63 All Other Resistances

Any thoughts as to how I can improve this character?

Thank you very much,
Victor Ly

maiku

03-10-2007, 18:07

It's possible you are not getting enough leech off of your LW to keep your health up while being pounded on in Hell diff in large games, before Life Tap triggers. LW adds a load of ED to a weapon, but in a phase blade, I feel this ED is somewhat wasted.

Couple of examples:
- Lightsaber can get a max of 200% ED and a possible 135 max damage. Hmm.
- Azurewrath can get an impressive 270% ED and a possible 129 max damage. Hmm.

I'm not sure what it can get at 345-400% (including your 15% superior mod), but some "upgraded" (formerly ethereal crystal swords or dimensional blades) phase blades around 200%+ do 200+ max damage. This seems like it should be decent damage to leech off of, but in Hell, not enough leech or raw physical damage to leech off of hurts as a meleer. Remember that Hell applies a severe penalty, so we're only leeching at a rate of like 1/3 of what we should be doing.

A high-end Zealot using a Grief will probably not notice any problems with leech, because a Grief phase blade will still do ridiculous amounts of physical damage per hit (like 3,000 to 6,000 or more). Factor in his high chance for Deadly Strike. Even with the leech penalties or a small amount of leech, a Zealot can't help himself from leeching like crazy. This is before his Life Tap fires off from his Dracs or Exile.

A Whateverdin relies heavily on his Dream and Crushing Blow for high damage. Unfortunately, one cannot leech off of elemental damage or Crushing Blow. Further, IIRC, CB is less effective the more players that are in a game. In a normal 1-player game, it removes 1/4th enemy life per blow. This is not the case in a 8-player game. CB is still useful in large games, but it is *not* as useful as it is in small games. The current Whateverdin build relies heavily on CB, and becomes much less effective in larger games as CB becomes less effective.

So what happens if we change from a LW to another weapon which would provide a lot more damage for this particular build?

More leech + physical damage route --> Grief
More elemental damage route --> Rift

Grief v1.0

Grief gives you quite a bit of Deadly Strike, ridiculously high physical damage as mentioned in addition to your Holy Shock damage, lots of %ED against demons (which increases kill speed + leech), +10-15 life per kill, and 30-40% IAS, which lessens your worries about other IAS equipment. You will lose Fade, Might, and more Life Tap without a LW, but you will probably gain a lot more physical damage, 1-2-hit kills as Niner mentioned at the start of this guide, and lots of leech, so you don't die easily.

If further modified, you could go for crafted Blood gloves (20% IAS, 10% CB, etc.), skip the Dracs, put on your other Dream shield instead of the Exile so you have a dual Dream setup, which will give you ridiculous amounts of lightning damage. IIRC, many Dreamadins have around 20-30K lightning. Finish maxing Resist Lightning. Then substitute an Atma's Scarab, so when Amp goes off it will not be overridden by Life Tap (means no LT equipment on when you have Atma's, swap to LT equipment and Highlord's when you want to Uber). When Amp is in effect (and it should be often with Zeal), you will do double physical damage. When Deadly Strike and Amp are both in effect, you will do quadruple physical damage. This is no small thing when you have a Grief. 1-hit kills = automatic life saved. Think about adding a Fortitude to this setup, and you will watch your damage move up even more.

Rift v1.0

Assuming you want more elemental damage via Rift, you will need to think more offensively *and* defensively. By taking this path, you won't be a Whateverdin--let's make that clear. You'd be more of a Rift/Dreamer hybrid. Rift casts lots of Level 21 Frozen Orbs. With Conviction, these do a lot of damage, slowing and chilling enemies all over the screen. If enemies are chilled, they will attack you slower and you won't take as much damage. With high level Conviction, it's likely you will break most Cold Immunes and chill them, as well as damage them.

With your merc providing Fanaticism, you have a lot more IAS, possibly enough to reach 4 fps Zeal, which means you may be able to launch several FOs a second. I'm not sure of the exact damage numbers, but usually Riftadins are working with 5 fps Zeal. You may be able to achieve a 4 fps Zeal if you add 44-48% more IAS (Level 15 Fanaticism versus Level 12) via equipment (Highlord's 20%, 20% IAS gloves, 10% from Nosferatu's Coil, for example). A 4 fps Zeal will substantially increase damage over a 5 fps Zeal as many more FOs are launched and damage all enemies on screen. Instead of loading up your inventory with +max damage charms as you probably would with a Grief or LW, switch to good elemental charms, lifers, and resist charms to round out your weaknesses. Either keep Chains of Honor on for the +skills or substitute a Fortitude, since it has higher defense. You could also try a Gladiator's Bane for its damage and magic damage reduced, high def, and socket w/ a nice jewel. Use dual Dreams, Highlord's, etc. in this setup. Don't think about Atma's, because with very little physical damage, Amp is useless to augment it. A Rift setup should concentrate on absorbing and lessening damage, making leech not as important. This is why an upgraded Shaftstop, Gladiator's Bane, etc. may make very nice armours for such a path.

Parting Thoughts

I would go the Grief route, because that's how your skills and equipment so far have been optimized. To go the Rift route requires less investment in Sacrifice, and more investment in Holy Shield (recommended maxed), Conviction (maxed), etc. If I'm not even remotely addressing what's wrong, just forget everything I said. :smiley:

niner

04-10-2007, 05:03

Vic-One thing glaring at me is the ias deficiancy. With dracs will make you slower, you lose 20 ias especially without fana if merc croaks. Is been a while since I looked up the ias tables but iirc you need the lvl 14+fana which you have,20ias on gloves,20ias on highlords to get he bp's of 4fpm with fana and 5fps without it for a pb with no ias on it. This make a big difference because the most important thing for a zealot are speed, leech and life bulb. You need to optimize the amount of attacks to be able to set of ctc's lifetap.

LW has zero ias so these minimums need to be met to be able to use it correctly. You will need to find/make some crafted gloves with melee stats for the best way to do this. Also some ML by ring or gloves would help too for when you get mana burned you can easily leech back the 2 mana to do a zeal rather than a slow normal attack when you have no mana.

minimum lvl 25 conviction with +gears for maxed dmg from your elemental dmg and increased chance to make your hits from lowered enemy defense. Some will say you dont need ar because maxed conviction is all you need because it lowers the defense so much. As conviction is excellent at making you hit more often I still whiff and miss with maxed 25+ every once in a while so as much as you can find in the ar department on your crafted ring,charms and gloves will make for less misses and more leeching,ctc's and overall hurting.

Maxed Resist Lightning will also boost your added elem dmg from holy shock added to your physical attacks like zeal and throwing, as well as boost up your holy shock pulses when dual dreaming as a synergy. These will make things die faster from both physical and elem dmg.

When you come across some ugly packs aim for the boss and namelock it till it dies. Try to kill him first before he gets off any undesireable curses on you,then the rest of his minions will fall off as you are killing him. Dont try running into packs when you are amped, or low on life it only takes a sec to cleanse or redeem up your life. This is your first zealot so may take a little while to get used to strategy of playing it as well.

Maiku- CB is not the most heavily relied on skill for the Whateverdin to be successful, its the speed and the abilty to hit often to release the elemental/physical melee dmgs that it can posess in attack mode. CB is most beneficial to make the Whateverdin a more efficient and faster boss killer.
If you throw a Grief on a Whateverdin its a Whateverdin with a Grief.
If you throw a Rift on a Whateverdin its a Whateverdin with a Rift.
If you throw a LW on a Whateverdin its a Whateverdin with a LW.
If you throw any good Zealot weapon on a Whateverdin its a Whateverdin with any good Zealot weapon and it will work.

Just make sure you hit your bp's and gear up accordingly to the weap you plan to use so that you have your reses covered as well.

MaStAViC

06-10-2007, 16:51

maiku: Thank you for the continued support! I know what you mean about physical damage and wish I could have higher physical damage as well, but my life leech, even without Life Tap, seems to be sufficient at this point. It just seems like the life bulb drains rather quickly when I am stuck in a big group. If I can attack a monster or two, all of my life will fill right back up, but if I can't hit anyone for one reason or another (i.e. getting stuck in Diablo's Bone Wall/An Evil Force in Uber Tristram), then I would die really quickly. Also, thanks for the information about Crushing Blow being not as effective in larger games; I did not know about that.

niner: Thank you for pointing out the IAS problem. I was just using Dracul's Grasp for the time being, but after you posted your reply, I changed it to a pair of temporary Laying of Hands, which has 20%IAS on it. In the meantime, I am crafting Blood Gloves, as per your suggestion. Actually, I could maybe use your help in a thread I started, titled Need Help Crafting Blood Gloves (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=5933514), you being a "master crafter" and all =P I replaced my Bul Kathos' Wedding Band ring with a 6% dual leech ring with decent resistances, which will be my ring until I can find a better one.

I now have level 25 Conviction and level 25 Resist Lightning. The Paladin is currently level 92, and I have maxed Conviction, Resist Lightning, Zeal, and Sacrifice, and approximately level 20 Holy Shield with gear. Should I level the Paladin up another level or two?

I did my first Uber Tristram earlier today! My girlfriend and I (she was on her Amazon) ran Uber Tristram after collecting the three body parts. The three red portals were a breeze, as I just used Zeal the entire time and monsters dropped around us. However, when I got to Uber Tristram, I ran into some problems. In the end, I died three times and my girlfriend died twice. In Uber Tristram, I used Smite and fed myself a total of over 25 full rejuvenation potions to stay alive most of the time. Biggest problem seems to be that my life drains too quickly because I am surrounded by monsters. Second problem is that I have a hard time when Diablo casts his Bone Shield on me, which requires several seconds to break - several seconds where an army of monsters is attacking me. Any recommendations or suggestions regarding this?

By the way, this was my first Uber Tristram that I have done on my own ever! The Hellfire torch that dropped turned out to be a Paladin one with 18 to all attributes and 18 to all resistances! With the newly acquired Hellfire Torch, I was able to dump the Necromancer one I was using for my Paladin =P

Thank you very much,
Victor Ly

niner

08-10-2007, 18:46

Vic-
In Tristram you need some strategy. Walking right in to the middle of room and smiting everything in sight isnt the way to do it. You need to lure the bosses outside of the middle if Trist one by one using zeal on the minions till you get a namelock on the boss then switch to smite to take them down if you are using the non tele method with coh/duress etc. Try this method next time.

I merely teleport on top of the bosses(Meph first) cuz I use enigma and smite them down. Then zeal my way out till I can see another boss , namelock, switch to smite when I get on them. Its hard to use enigma on this build because of all the res you lose by using it, you gotta save up the killer res charms first. 3 times dying your very first time in Tristram isnt really that bad.

Congratulations on your first torch its a dandy!!

MaStAViC

08-10-2007, 18:58

Thank you very much for giving information about Uber Tristram strategy. I wasn't exactly sure how the bosses were set up in Tristram, but since my first two runs (I ran another one today), I have been reading guides to help me out more. Surprisingly enough, on the second run, I fought Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto, and all of the minions all at once (in the same screen) and didn't have too many problems. In fact, my girlfriend and I didn't die at all, though I did spam a lot of full rejuvenation potions =P

This build is awesome. I highly recommend it to anyone who can afford it. And for those who can't yet afford it, I'd like to let you know that this could be the build to aim for as you accumulate wealth.

Thank you for all of the help and for answering so many of my (newbie) questions! I really, really appreciate it and will recommend others to try this build.

Victor Ly

MaStAViC

16-10-2007, 22:47

It has been slightly over a week since I have finished building my Whateverdin, and I have returned to speak praises of this build. This build is everything I wanted my first Paladin to be and so much more. It's a very fun build, very strong, and the Whateverdin is just a great build overall.

I have used my Whateverdin to help groups defeat Hell Ancients with ease (I could be the only player fighting in a six-player game and the Ancients would still pose no problems). When Baal runs go bad and other players, including Hammerdins, start having problems, my Whateverdin shows up and impresses other players. I have ran Uber Tristram with no problems: just recently, I had Uber Diablo, Uber Mephisto, Uber Baal, and Uber Baal Clone on top of me, along with all of the Uber minions, and I was able to smite my way to victory without dying. The only bit of help I had with my girlfriend's Amazon, which isn't built for Uber Tristram so she was just tagging along for the most part.

The only problem I have had is against Iron Maiden-casting monsters. Gimmershred does not do enough damage to matter against most of these types of monsters, so I do not really have a way to defeat them (if you have other strategies, please share, niner).

This morning, I finally crafted Blood Gloves good enough to replace Laying of Hands: 20% Increased Attack Speed, 3% Life Leech, 5% Chance of Crushing Blow, +11 to Strength, +15 to Life, Fire Resist 27%, and 79% Extra Gold From Monsters.

For those who are interested, this is my complete gear:
Main Items
Chains of Honor Dusk Shroud
Dream Bone Visage
Exile Sacred Rondache
Last Wish Phase Blade
Self-Crafted Blood Gloves (see stats above)
Gore Rider War Boots
Thundergod's Vigor War Belt
Highlord's Wrath Amulet
Raven Frost Ring
Rare 6% Dual Leech Ring with other mods
Annihilus
Paladin Hellfire Torch

Items on Switch
Gimmershred (weapon)
Demon Limb Tyrant Club (for pre-buffing)
Call to Arms Flail (for pre-buffing)

I only have some charms, none of which are amazing. Altogether, they cost about three high runes. I have found that using my inventory to store Full Rejuvenation Potions is a good idea for some tough spots when running Uber Tristram.

Side note: Amazingly enough, my Rogue mercenary has survived most of the Uber Tristram games that I have run. She is wearing a Faith Great Bow, Fortitude Loricated Mail (ethereal glitched), and and Crown of Thieves Grand Crown (I plan to change this helmet out; any suggestions?).

If anyone has questions, feel free to post a reply here. I will remain subscribed to this thread so that I can help anyone who has questions. I feel that I am indebted to Niner for all of the help he has provided me, so I will try to tackle questions posed by others and give him some time to rest. Niner has been amazing - helpful, understanding, and patient. Most people wouldn't be able to handle the load of questions that I threw at him =P This is the very first Paladin I have built after playing dozens and dozens of high-leveled character, and by all means, this is a success, thanks to Niner's great guide.

Victor Ly
*mastavicx and *mastavic (USWEST Softcore Ladder)

maiku

17-10-2007, 02:50

MaStAViC

17-10-2007, 05:49

For Rogue merc, I suggest Andariel's Visage, normal or ethereal, socketed with a 20-30% fire resist jewel w/ IAS (to cover the -30% fire resist from Andy's). Good leech, lots of IAS, high poison resist, and with a nice fire jewel in it, will cover up its only major defect. And you won't have to stare all the time at Andy's Ugly Visage, as I have to on my Strafer. -_-
Ah, great suggestion. Now that you bring this up, I was trying to obtain an ethereal Andarial's Visage (or just use a normal one), but wanted to make sure that I have the jewel you described before I put it on the mercenary due to the high negative fire resist; however, I kind of forgot all about this... haha. I even started a thread a while back titled [L] ISO: High Fire Resist Jewel + Second Mod (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=593034) where I was looking for the exact same jewel you described. Thanks for the information and reminder!

By the way, maiku, I appreciate all that you have helped me on, not only regarding Paladins but other general information as well. You've been giving very thorough suggestions since the first day that I became interested in Paladins and I really wanted to thank you for that.

Victor Ly

niner

17-10-2007, 19:42

Vic- Gimmer throwing has enough dmg to kill IM areas just not as fast as zealing would. Here you have to take some time. You will be pulsing lvl 30 holy shock for non lightning res monsters they will drop eventually from this depending on how many people are in the game as per how fast. For lightning res monsters hit em with Gimmer, it has hella tri-elem dmg and some physical as well. I have actually tested gimmer and I can clear from Hargorath all the way to throne room using gimmer only, no matter what types of creatures spawn. If you in a big game with lots of players either make them help cuz your auras will make them godly killers when they normally wouldnt be either by provide the melee/missle with fana/might/defiance or the casters with conviction, or take some time for strategy by letting merc get off a skelly and following it in while it blocks. seems these returned take hella dmg and keep going like they on a timer or something. I still havent found any stats on a returned but they work wonderfully for this. Also be leary of the curses you are getting from the OK's. If they hit you with lower resist you better cleanse it off if you have some pit lords,souls,death lords around you before you get near them because of the elemental attacks they use. run back some to thin them out rather than taking on the whole group. Also try to get your confuse off as it helps tremendously and is quite easy to let one off by taking a few hits as you will be taking hits when things get ugly. CS same thing if you see little purple bubbles above your head back off, cleanse and proceed forward cuz the fire-breathing pit lords will hurt you. also take advantage of the redemtion after or during mass monster attacks going into battles with a full life bulb.

As far as Rogues gears; I use Dream helm and Dragon armor on an ice merc. The Dream and Dragon provides lvl 15 holy shock and holy fire to her missle attack already with the cold arrows multiplied by maxed conviction making for a tri-elemental balanced potent attack vs anything. You make up your res with a good res dream and +5 to max lightning from the dragon to help vs the souls lightning. You gte ctc Hydras which are devastating with conviction + you get an extra 15% ctc confuse(see above about confuse). This merc stays out of harms way if attacked, and runs out of melee range. Most of the game you will be zealing away and casting lifetap so leech is not really all that neccesary she doesnt melee.

MaStAViC

17-10-2007, 20:29

Thanks for the reply, niner.

I seem to have the most problem in Furnace of Pain (Uber Izual's place) because Gimmershred's elemental damage won't even pierce many of the monsters there, as they're immune to virtually all elemental damage. Currently, I let my girlfriend's Amazon kill monsters and I just tank and provide auras for her. However, she is about to use a Barbarian built just to run Ubers, and the Barbarian won't be able to attack either when he is cursed with Iron Maiden. Any thoughts regarding this?

I like an ethereal Fortitude on my mercenary because it helps her stay alive in Uber Tristram. I'd sacrifice some damage from my mercenary for survivability, as she provides the nice Fanaticism aura for me when she's alive.

Thanks,
Victor Ly

niner

17-10-2007, 22:00

Pit Lords with OK's in furnace-

The Pit lords are immune to lots they have to be dispatched with zeal. This cannot be done within OK's casting range. They are however very fast runners which will be they downfall. When you see the mix let them chase you backwards with your cleanse on until out of OK's casting range. Then press w and zeal away till they die recovering your life bulb as they go down. Then go back and use the Atilla manuever with gimmers and your merc to dispatch whats left. And if more Pit Lords come then same tactic you will always have a cleared path to fall back on if you follow the take no prisoners approach to redemtion. You get more drops that way too.

maiku

18-10-2007, 05:30

jdmandich

20-11-2007, 01:58

Sweet build man

niner

25-11-2007, 20:04

Mastavic, no prob. In regard to your problems with the OKs, do you think an Azurewrath and its Sanctuary aura, which affects undead, might help out? Besides cold damage, it deals a hefty amount of magical damage which they may not be able to resist.

Gimmershred with physical and tri-elem dmg thrown at these with maxed conviction, lvl 30 fully synergized holy shock added, and firestorm does the trick wonderfully. Backed by mercs fanatacism, tri-elem dmg, hydras, and re-animated skellies that you can follow in. 30% ctc confuse if anything hits you and 15% if hits merc makes them attack and curse each other.

This is the way to handle it with this build.

jdmandich

27-11-2007, 22:52

niner

28-11-2007, 19:30

Gimmershreds work great with this build Ive almost got mine complete...I just need exile and a ptorch and I should be just about finished. Its a pretty cool build.
You use dragon on your merc, does it really help out allot/ is it worth it runewise?

Faith has 15% all res already. When merc gets to around lvl 85 or so she will have max reses so an armor with res isnt all that necessary. Merc stays away from the fight usually so def isnt all needed so much as well. The main reason I use Dragon armor is for the ctc lvl 15 Hydras. These are devastating with maxed conviction running. Dragon add some str which will boost her base physical dmg also boosting holy shock and holy fire dmg from the arrows. Also provides the extra 5% to max lightning res which is enough to keep her from instantly dying from the Gloams and Black Souls. This merc doesnt need lifeleech cuz you will be spawning lifetap constantly.

Dream Helm in conjunction with Dragon armor on a cold arrow merc will provide a Tri-Elemental dmg merc that just fits the theme.

jdmandich

28-11-2007, 22:46

Ahh that sounds good.
I guess I still have some shopping left to do...lol
now whats better armor for myself? Enigma/Duress/Dragon/Fort?
With the conviction wouldnt dragon be ideal?

niner

09-12-2007, 22:56

Ahh that sounds good.
I guess I still have some shopping left to do...lol
now whats better armor for myself? Enigma/Duress/Dragon/Fort?
With the conviction wouldnt dragon be ideal?

You go with duress/fort/duriels until you can get up your resists to be able to use enigma.

Res all sc's, Higher res Dreams, your 2nd ring beside RF, and crafted blood gloves are all good ways to achieve this. They take some time to find the right ones and some planning so use the Duress till you can switch over to the enigma.

I think Dragon Armor sux for a Zealot, would only be useful if you were planning to make a torchadin with dragon shield,armor and Hand of Justice for the lvl 48 holy fire+ Synergized wich is a different build altogether. It just doent have very good stats at all for a melee character.

zzzackkk

29-01-2008, 02:36

Great build. You really sold it to me when you were talking to me about it. For those of you who think that this is too expensive to try, think again. Scroll down a little bit from the original post and you will see niner's gear list for the poorer, and like niner told me, make it a work in progress, cause this build tears through everything once it's done. I'm just now starting mine.

richuwo

01-03-2008, 05:32

i love this build... i have everything but the merc faith... i play non-ladder, so im havin a tough time acquiring it, even when offering 6 pcombs for one. ive been tryin for the last week. im also using an ap fort instead of the enigma. my resists are in the high 20s without it...

if anyone has a merc faith ft, or knows someone that has one... i have 6 pcombs for it.

great build niner.

flvrflv

07-03-2008, 03:19

niner

08-03-2008, 20:28

Before I go and spend hard points. Just as a double-check. Do hard points spent in Resist Lightning increase the damage done by the Holy Shock Aura that comes from the dual Dreams?

I know it seems like a dumb question, but I really want to be sure.

Yes it does. It adds to your melee hits and your pulse dmg as it normally would with the base skill holy shock. Is what makes the build rock!

niner

19-09-2008, 17:14

Anyone make one this ladder season yet? Im still gathering up my gears but will have mine up soon.

Azhul

23-02-2009, 01:36

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715499

niner

29-04-2009, 00:05

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715499

Fana from the merc will affect everyone in the party within range of the merc's aura.

UberB

28-09-2009, 01:07

What's the point of getting an ebugged Exile when you already have last wish for all the lifetap you need? Why not just get a second Dream and let your damage skyrocket?

With a Highlord's no further IAS is needed to get a 4 frame zeal, I would use Magefist for gloves to get a decent tele speed.

With a second dream on main I would just keep a gimmershred in inventory and have cta on switch.

niner

08-10-2009, 22:12

What's the point of getting an ebugged Exile when you already have last wish for all the lifetap you need? Why not just get a second Dream and let your damage skyrocket?

+5 to max on cold and fire res, freezes target,MF and defiance for you and merc. Why would a Zealot NOT want to have an Exile?

With a Highlord's no further IAS is needed to get a 4 frame zeal, I would use Magefist for gloves to get a decent tele speed.

This Pally doesnt need to tele if it can kill anything. With blood gloves you get more res,CB,str,dex,life,IAS and any other stat you may be lacking.

With a second dream on main I would just keep a gimmershred in inventory and have cta on switch.

CTA is for people who dont know how to make a sound pally build losing VIT points into STR/DEX because of poor planning. Save your CTA for your Sorc.

UberB

09-10-2009, 03:10

1. Exile lacks resists and a second Dream shield would greatly boost your damage. I see no point to use Exile especially when you already have Last wish.

2. If you don't need to tele why do you advocate Enigma and not Fort?

3. Now the CTA comment here is the most arrogant of all. I only needed to swap the weapon to have a strong anti-IM switch, so why not have CTA on switch and just keep a Gimmershred in inventory? My CTA easily gives me half again as much life, and yes, I have planned my points down to the letter. Who can say no to more life? Why do you think all barbs max BO?

niner

09-10-2009, 22:40

UberB

10-10-2009, 16:07

As long as you have Exile as a staple with this build you can use any good 1 handed weapon you want to as stated. 2 Dreams on zeal provides way overkill while lacking the safety factors of + max res, defiance, lifetap,freezing targets when zealing in crowd while cursed, or whacking Ubers. This will keep you alive.

As far as safety goes LW already comes with all the safety you need. You don't need the lifetap of Lastwish AND Exile in order to be safe. Personally if I had an Exile I would get a Grief PB instead, you only need one of LW and Exile really. I do agree that gear can be swapped around, using LW/Dream or Grief/Exile, but LW/Exile is a waste of not only a good amount of HRs but also damage that was given up for excess amounts of safety that's not even needed.

Theres a difference in max BO and lvl 6 BO, maybe thats why they max it? BO to this build. Is it nice to have? Yes. Is it neccesary? No. This build is sound enough not to need it with plenty enough life and def to overcome. Switching from a Zealot to a Thrower with fully synergized lvl 30 HS with the simple press of the W key is far more efficient. Rather than going to stash to get a certain needed weapon through out the game. Chances are in a 8 ppl game someone will BO you. If they dont. No biggie.

I'll admit this is more of a matter of taste. My point is, you can swap out Exile for a second Dream. This will greatly boost your damage and still not hinder your ability to survive. By doing this, you only need to switch your weapon to Gimmershred when you get IM'ed. You can simply put the Gimmershred in your inventory (just two spaces) and have a CTA on switch instead for even more survivability. You just need to swap a weapon. I'll admit it's not as simple as pressing W but I'd take the occasional I and two clicks in exchange for having CTA.