noob question about experience

[WinterBreak]

So, if you're playing with others, under what conditions do they gain experience as well for someone you kill? For example, do they have to be on the same screen? the same party? the same map?

Also, do you get the same exp points by killing stronger monsters because of having more players in the world?

Thanks.

[gorash]

So, if you're playing with others, under what conditions do they gain experience as well for someone you kill? For example, do they have to be on the same screen? the same party? the same map?

Also, do you get the same exp points by killing stronger monsters because of having more players in the world?

Thanks.

afaik, u gain exp as long as ur at max 2 screens away where the kills are made. same map? isn't everyone in that game on same map.... should be in same party too. the person who got the kill however will get more then the others who are either leeching or also trying to kill.

when more ppl enter games, the monsters become stronger, therefore u gain more exp when u make the kill when there are more ppl in the game. i could be wrong on some of these though.

[LorveN]

Iirc, the one putting the killing blow gets 20% (or was it 25%?) more exp. This applies always, no matter how many there are in the game.
(If a monster usually gives 100 exp, if you kill it, you gain 120)

There is a formula for calculating exp gained depending on the number of players in the game, but to put it simple: You gain more exp if there are more people in the game, regardless of if they are in your party or not.
(Like as the 100 exp-monster instead should give 600 in an 8player game. Not sure on that number though)
Your stronger-monster-theory also works, stronger monsters do in general also give more exp, for example, champion monsters give double exp iirc.

[McCain123]

If a charakter kills a monster, the game will check how many players are in the game and how many players are in party with the killer and not more than 2 screens away. The xp of the monster will be split between those chars, according to their level. Lets just say, a lvl 10 and a lvl 90 are in party in an 8 player game. The rest of the players are doing something else.
First of all, all monsters have 450% of there normal xp ( number of player + 1 ) / 2. For every char in range and party apart from the killer 35% xp are added. So every monster that the highlevel kills gives 485% of the normal xp. Now these XPs get split up. The high level gets 90 / ( 90 + 10 ) = 0,9 of that and the low level gets 10 / ( 90 + 10 ) = 0,1 of that, so 436,5% monster xp for the high level and 48,5% monster xp for the low level. In the next step the monster level is compared to the character level. Lets say these two kill hell baal. Baal is lvl 99, so both will suffer quite a lot from the level difference. The high level will get 99/90 * 0.9 * 0.24 * 0.0596 * 22000938 = 311554 XP ( lvl Baal / his level * his part of the xpshare * penalty lvl difference * penalty charakter lvl * 4.85 times baal xp ). The low level will be treated different, since he is below level 25, so his gain would be 0.05 * 0.05 * 0.1 * 22000938 = 5500 ( twice the penalty for lvl difference * his part of the xp share * 4.85 times baal xp ). After that bonusses of anni and ondals are added to the XP. There is no bonus for the killer of a monster, but only his merc will get some XP.

Hope this clears things up.

XP explained (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/experience.shtml)

[thegiantturtle]

If a charakter kills a monster, the game will check how many players are in the game and how many players are in party with the killer and not more than 2 screens away. The xp of the monster will be split between those chars, according to their level. Lets just say, a lvl 10 and a lvl 90 are in party in an 8 player game. The rest of the players are doing something else.
First of all, all monsters have 450% of there normal xp ( number of player + 1 ) / 2. For every char in range and party apart from the killer 35% xp are added. So every monster that the highlevel kills gives 485% of the normal xp. Now these XPs get split up. The high level gets 90 / ( 90 + 10 ) = 0,9 of that and the low level gets 10 / ( 90 + 10 ) = 0,1 of that, so 436,5% monster xp for the high level and 48,5% monster xp for the low level. In the next step the monster level is compared to the character level. Lets say these two kill hell baal. Baal is lvl 99, so both will suffer quite a lot from the level difference. The high level will get 99/90 * 0.9 * 0.24 * 0.0596 * 22000938 = 311554 XP ( lvl Baal / his level * his part of the xpshare * penalty lvl difference * penalty charakter lvl * 4.85 times baal xp ). The low level will be treated different, since he is below level 25, so his gain would be 0.05 * 0.05 * 0.1 * 22000938 = 5500 ( twice the penalty for lvl difference * his part of the xp share * 4.85 times baal xp ). After that bonusses of anni and ondals are added to the XP. There is no bonus for the killer of a monster, but only his merc will get some XP.

Hope this clears things up.

XP explained (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/experience.shtml)
This is not completely correct. The boni for more total players and partied, nearby players are mulitplied, not added. it should be 4.5 * 1.35 = 6.075, not 4.85. Also, these values are not exact. The exact is too annoying to write.

[McCain123]

Did you do testing about that, as it is not exactly mentioned?

Apart from that, there are some stupid bugs Blizzard built in the XP calculation. This is what we found out, when we did Baalruns:

If you have the exactly same group of players with the same character levels, Baal gives more XP to a group of 4 players then to a group of 3 players ( being 3 of the 4 players of the first test). This should not be possible, but it happens in 8 player games.

[thegiantturtle]

Did you do testing about that, as it is not exactly mentioned?The arreat summit is not a reliable source of information. My information comes as hand-me-downs on this board and competing boards through people who have debugged the code or who have studied with them.

If you have the exactly same group of players with the same character levels, Baal gives more XP to a group of 4 players then to a group of 3 players ( being 3 of the 4 players of the first test). This should not be possible, but it happens in 8 player games.I have a few questions about this:
1) What was the level of all players?
2) How did you figure the amount of experience he granted?
3) Do you know how he was activated? (I'm not sure if the entry point to the worldstone activates him or if you have to move from that location.)

Total monster exp is set when an enemy is activated. If he was activated by one player each time (i.e. he is activated when you enter the worldstone), then it would be expected that each player would get more experience if 3 player's shared the kill than if 4 player's shared the kill.

[HeavensAvenger]

Hi, was in a baal run the day boosting my mate and someone was moaning becuase i was using metor to vape everytin as it appeared claiming he doesnt get hardly any xp if i do that? is this right? (i was clvl 84, they were all about 30 - 40)

D

[McCain123]

1) What was the level of all players?
This should not matter. It was the same 8 players doing both Baalruns. But for the report, most were highlevels ( 95+ ).
2) How did you figure the amount of experience he granted?
Press 'C', write down number, kill Baal, write down number, do the math. :D
3) Do you know how he was activated? (I'm not sure if the entry point to the worldstone activates him or if you have to move from that location.)
All 8 players were in the game, until he was dead, so this can be excluded.
Total monster exp is set when an enemy is activated. If he was activated by one player each time (i.e. he is activated when you enter the worldstone), then it would be expected that each player would get more experience if 3 player's shared the kill than if 4 player's shared the kill.
I´m not sure, if I get you right on this. You suppose it could have been a matter if people are already in Baalparty when they enter the throne, or if players are still in a party of 8? Hmmm, would be worth testing.
Hi, was in a baal run the day boosting my mate and someone was moaning becuase i was using metor to vape everytin as it appeared claiming he doesnt get hardly any xp if i do that? is this right? (i was clvl 84, they were all about 30 - 40)
D
Bull****. How you kill a monster( type of skill ), has nothing to do with the amount of xp. However some people will have some lag because of the flames from meteor or some skellies, so these rumors are widely spread.

Some skills to be careful with:
Summons : Don´do too much, people with slower connection or hardware might lag.
Bonewalls : Bad mannered, as nontelers are blocked.
Meteors : same as summons
Mindblast : Converts monsters and increases time it takes to bring monsters down.
Shadow : uses Mindblast, so same as above
all skills that require a corpse : others might need these too

I might have forgotten some. Just use common sense, how your skills affect the party.

[thegiantturtle]

1) What was the level of all players?This should not matter. It was the same 8 players doing both Baalruns. But for the report, most were highlevels ( 95+ ).What matter's is the level of the 3 partied players killing baal or the 4 partied players killing baal. Those matter because experience will be split up based on these values.

2) How did you figure the amount of experience he granted? Press 'C', write down number, kill Baal, write down number, do the math. :DWhat math did you do? To figure out the total amount of experience given out by baal, you have to calculate based on each character's level compared to baal and compared to the rest of the party. Since you don't seem to know the levels of those killing baal (or understand fully how it is split up (see next response), I can't take your word for properly calculating the amount of experience baal bequeathed (before splitting among members and lvl penalties).

3) Do you know how he was activated? (I'm not sure if the entry point to the worldstone activates him or if you have to move from that location.) All 8 players were in the game, until he was dead, so this can be excluded.You're premises are flawed. How many players are in the game is only 1 of the important variables here. The following paragraph explained that it also mattered if he is just activated by the first player to enter the worldstone, or whether there were (or even could be) other partied players within 2 screens when he is activated. The "partied, nearby player" bonus to exp is determined when he is activated, not when he is killed.

Total monster exp is set when an enemy is activated. If he was activated by one player each time (i.e. he is activated when you enter the worldstone), then it would be expected that each player would get more experience if 3 player's shared the kill than if 4 player's shared the kill.I´m not sure, if I get you right on this. You suppose it could have been a matter if people are already in Baalparty when they enter the throne, or if players are still in a party of 8? Hmmm, would be worth testing.Neither. When Baal is officially activated by the game, his experience is determined by (1) how many total players are in the game (you said 8) AND (2) how many total players are both NEARBY AND PARTIED. That is what determines how much experience Baal grants. If Baal is automatically activated when the first player enters the worldstone, then the same amount of experience will be given out by him whether there are 4 partied players present at the kill or 3 partied players present at the kill.


Please, please, please understand the mechanics of how the game is known/expected to work and test to those mechanics BEFORE you decide what is and is not a problem. A result out of a valid procedure is invalid if you supplied even one incorrect premise. Your premise that more people at the kill should cause more experience was not valid.

In the above case, IF Baal is activated when you enter the worldstone, then there would be no experience bonus to killing Baal in a large party. IF this is true, then for power leveling, it would be most efficient for only the highest player to be present when baal is actually killed. If we find that to be true, then you could make a case that it is a bug that baal is activated upon entrance to the worldstone, but you'd have to accurately measure the experience he provides in different settings before deciding that his experience payout is bugged.

-TGT

Sorry if this came off a little harsh. When I'm dealing with logical questions, I try to exculde emotion (emotion tends to cloud judgment), and lack of emotion is often taken as harshness (also, I sometimes fail to remove the emotion :xmas17:).


EDIT: Also, in a game of size X, if there are 3 partied players activate a monster of type M and kill him, and then 4 partied players activate a monster of type M and kill him (still with game size X), each member of the 3-man party will get MORE experience than those in the 4-man party (the exp equation can be broken down as: ~2.05/3*someExp vs ~2.4/4*someExp). The benefit to the larger party shines in the speed of the kill. Enjoy.

[McCain123]

I don´t mind if you or I sound harsh at times, I just want to give Baal an optimum of XP, when killing him. Alhough you state, that I might have done mistakes in my calculations, you don´t clear up, how the game actually calculates XP. I understand, that there might by more factors than the number and levels of players in the whole game and in the party killing Baal, but some things are just not mentioned by you, so I´ll just plain ask:

1. When exactly is Baal spawned? When going down in the WSC or if you approach?
2. If Baal is spawned when entering WSC, are the players in the Throne next to the TP, within he 2 screens or outside of it?
3. Does it make a difference, if the same players spawn Baal in a party of one or in two seperate parties?
4. Although this was not part of our discussion so far, but does it matter ( for the XP ), if someone leaves the game, once Baal is spawned?

I really do a lot of testing, but I guess you can imagine how hard it is to get 8 players in the same run, all doing exactly what you want them to do, just for some tests.

One last remark. Although you state I might have made mistakes in my calculations, I am still convinced, that Baalparties of three players have some sort of bugged XP. The parties of three and four ppl killing Baal in the game with the same 8 players in it, contained the same three ppl both times. The one guy that was added in the party of 4 ppl was about the same level as the other 3. I can´t swear it, but the first time party was like ( 98 , 97 , 97 ) and second time party was like ( 98 , 97 , 97 , 97 ) so the XP is almost shared equal. So it would make sense, that if the XP is shared between 3 ppl it would have to be more than if it was shared between 4. Since we not only tested once and in every run came to the same result it is not very likely that we manipulated other factors, so that it would always have that outcome. But perhaps you can enlighten me on these. :)

[thegiantturtle]

1. When exactly is Baal spawned? When going down in the WSC or if you approach?I don't know. I said that a couple times.
2. If Baal is spawned when entering WSC, are the players in the Throne next to the TP, within he 2 screens or outside of it? I believe traveling through a red portal is like taking a waypoint to another act. The 2 areas are not considered near each other.
3. Does it make a difference, if the same players spawn Baal in a party of one or in two seperate parties?As stated, what matters for spawning baal is (1)how many total players are in the game and (2) how many players are both in the party of the player causing the spawn and within 2 screens. IF baal is not automatically spawned by the first person in the chamber, then it WOULD matter who spawns him. If there are 4 people down there in a party of 1 and a party of 3, then if the party of 1 guy spawns him, there is no party bonus; if the party of 3 spawns him, there will be a party bonus of ~70%. If all 4 players were partied together, there would be a party bonus of ~105%
4. Although this was not part of our discussion so far, but does it matter ( for the XP ), if someone leaves the game, once Baal is spawned?No. When baal is spawned, his total experience is determined. That total number will not be modified by changes to total players, parties, players in the area, parties in the area, etc... What I am not sure about is if everyone leaves baal's area for long enough and returns, whether or not his Exp is respawned (I know his def would be reset in this case; see discussions about -target defense).

I really do a lot of testing, but I guess you can imagine how hard it is to get 8 players in the same run, all doing exactly what you want them to do, just for some tests.I applaud the effort, but some detailed background on your tests would be helpful when you are making resultant claims.

One last remark. Although you state I might have made mistakes in my calculations, I am still convinced, that Baalparties of three players have some sort of bugged XP. The parties of three and four ppl killing Baal in the game with the same 8 players in it, contained the same three ppl both times. The one guy that was added in the party of 4 ppl was about the same level as the other 3. I can´t swear it, but the first time party was like ( 98 , 97 , 97 ) and second time party was like ( 98 , 97 , 97 , 97 ) so the XP is almost shared equal. So it would make sense, that if the XP is shared between 3 ppl it would have to be more than if it was shared between 4. Since we not only tested once and in every run came to the same result it is not very likely that we manipulated other factors, so that it would always have that outcome. But perhaps you can enlighten me on these. :)In the 4 player party, each person should get less exp, but you can not simply add up everyone's exp directly. I honestly don't feel like working out all the formulae, but the different player levels will have an affect on the exp split, and the mlvl/clvl and high clvl penalties could be causing the discrepancy you are seeing. If not that, then I don't know.

If you would really like to test baal's exp in 3 and 4 man parties in 8 player games, I suggest having 4 players of the same level (for calculation ease) and always make sure Baal is definitely spawned by only one player (to avoid possible total exp differences). Maybe you could enlist someone with multiple cd-keys to do some testing.