View Full Version : Singer questions
Hi everyone,
I'm relatively new to the Barbarian realm. I usually play Paladins or Amazons so I'm not all that experienced with the Barbarian. I want to try out a Singer build and studied the PvM singer guide closely... but I still have some questions.
-WC does physical damage. What should I do against PIs? Maybe put a point in Berserk... or does anyone have a better idea?
-Since WC does physical damage... does WC benefit from mods like CB, OW or DS? (I don't think so but I just wanna know for sure). And how about Decrep/Amplify... does that affect the damage of WC?
-In your opinion, what's better... dual spirit or dual wizzy?
-I'm not rich and everything that costs more than an UM is usually above my spending limit (I just don't feel doing countless Pitruns with my Javazon pitrunner). Therefore, Sojs are out of the question. What rings should I use, assuming that the FCR and FHR breakpoints are already reached?
-How high should Leap/Leap Attack be and which of the two is better?
Phew, quite a few questions. I hope someone can help me.
-Ava
inanefedaykin
02-01-2006, 17:43
-Mercenary
-No and I don't know but I think it does
-Dual spirit imo
-fcr/str/res/mana rings get two rings with fcr and ditch fcr gloves
-Leap
dual wizzy is best imo gives you easy max resist and huge mana (you gonna need that) and it provides you with 100 fcr already only 100 more remaining for nxt bp :xmas17:
a singer only expensive thing is his eni and the rest is fairly cheap:
armor: eni
weapons: dual wizzy
gloves: magefist
belt: arach
boots: eth sands
amu: +2 baba/2 warcries 20 fcr
rings: 10 fcr rings high mana
helm: +2 baba 20 fcr 2 sox (2 shael)
you need alot of mana with a singer depending on if its pvm or pvp.
go for max warcries and synenergy and lvl 17 leap
Actually if I'm not mistaken, if you use dual wizardspikes you wont need anymore fcr since you'll be at the second to last BP for barb casting rates and the last one is over 200%. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But either or, if you have plenty of fcr items go for 1 wizardspike/1spirit. That way you get both hight resists and a bit more dmg, FHR AND to top it all off, some vit.
Rememeber, with a singer the +to all skills isnt all that great since it raises the dmg only slightly, but increases the mana cost, so find the balance that works for you.
With my singer I noticed that there's a rather large difference in PvM. Meaning the monsters either drop in a couple of casts, or they take so long that you WILL need mana potions (think all the bosses, especially in hell) in other words having +max mana or mana regeneration is nice but dont sacrafice too much for it. dual wielding wizardspikes can always solve that problem if need be.
P.S. but then again I'm speaking from the perspective of 1.10...
0% 9% 20% 37% 63%% 105% 200%
these are the bp's and for pvp a singer needs 200% fcr else he is just a walking cry baby as he cant keep up with some other casters... :xmas24:
0% 9% 20% 37% 63%% 105% 200%
these are the bp's and for pvp a singer needs 200% fcr else he is just a walking cry baby as he cant keep up with some other casters... :xmas24:
Well I tend to disagree here because in order to get the 200% fcr you do need to sacrafice some pieces of equipment that could aid you in many more ways than just hitting that last BP, but that's just my take on the situation. In any case, I dont see either way as a mistake, just a matter of preference.
Well I tend to disagree here because in order to get the 200% fcr you do need to sacrafice some pieces of equipment that could aid you in many more ways than just hitting that last BP, but that's just my take on the situation. In any case, I dont see either way as a mistake, just a matter of preference.
I have a singer that I've built to take on PvP (As a side note, they suck in pvp, but it's fun to watch the responses you get), and I can tell you right now - the guys are mana leeches. If memory serves, I believe that War Cry costs 9+slevel mana, meaning at around level 30 you're going to be sucking back 40 mana in order to deal about 1,000 damage to everything in a small radius. Granted, if you build him with 200 faster cast rate, you'll be doing this VERY quickly, but that means your mana is draining even faster.
The most important mods, I've found, for a singer are :
Faster cast
Resistances
Mana, Mana, Mana, MANA, MANA, MANA!!
+skills
In that order. Of course, that's my opinion, some will disagree. My barb is on Useast NL, but if you have a char there (Or feel like making a char on that realm just to see) I'd be more than happy to show him to you. As far as I'm concerned, if you're looking for a cheap gear singer, you'd be best served by aiming for the 200 fast cast breakpoing, using items such as :
2x wizardspikes (I would never use anything but these, they have three out of your four most important mods on them, in huge amounts, and they're cheap as dirt)
Vipermagi - you can use a 20 resist one, remember that you've already got 150 resist from wizardspike, plus natural resists (maybe), plus anya...
DUal fast cast rings, a second mod of mana is nice. Crafted rings made at a very low level for highest chance of the Apprentice mod work very well for these
Crafted Caster amulet
Crafted Caster belt
Magefist gloves - trangs would work as well, but the mana regen is sweet
That'll give you somewhere in the neighborhood of 180-190% faster cast - more, if you can score a crafted amulet with the apprentice mod. Then you just need to find a circlet with fast cast on it (again, other mods are nice, but if you can find a +3 warcries/20 fast cast circlet that'd be beautiful) and you're good to go.
Considering the second mods are only helpful and not necessary, this gear can be gotten for fairly cheap if you go for the lowest end things. Keep in mind that with low +skills you may not break 1,000 damage with your war cry - but you'll still have every monster nearby stunned for about 7 seconds, and you're capable of casting almost four times a second, stunning each time. And NEVER underestimate the power of Howl. If you're in a tough situation, spam Howl and Battle Cry back and forth - you'll cause the outermost group of enemies to run, but if a frightened enemy can't run, they'll turn back to you, and still have the fear curse thing. Spamming battle cry then howl again resets it.
Also, I HIGHLY recommend an act 2 merc with an insight polearm. Yes, even with all that additional mana, you will still want one of these guys. Even with level 16 meditation and over 1,000 mana on my singer, who has approximately level 35 War Cry, if I stand there spamming it, he loses mana steadily.
As far as skills go - Again, it'll result in a cut to your damage, but definately max BO first. You're going to have to get very close to your enemies, you'll need that life, and you'll definately want *Gasp* The mana! If you only intend to do PvM and you're going to use Wizardspikes, I recommend not putting any points into natural resists, because ultimately, it's a waste. Wizardspike x2 + all three anyas = 80 resist all in hell. You can also save points on iron skin, because frankly, your defense blows, it's not worth it. If you can get an enigma, skip increased speed as well. These guys are skill point pigs, and if you get all four of those, plus one in leap, plus maxing BO, war cry, and all synergies, it'll take till level 96 or so to finish him. Cutting those four passives out brings you that much closer to an early finish... and if you have enigma, then wearing .. is it gorefoot? The boots with +2 to leap. Will also help save you some points. If you're going to put the one into leap (the skill is extremely useful for spamming around irritating enemies while your mana recharges) then I recommend you use waterwalks - big life and dexterity boost, means less dex invested for wizardspikes, and results in even MORE life. 15 points saved + say 50 life (can go as high as 65), means 110 life, BEFORE battle orders. Nice little increase.
::Edit:: Varion - Richo was saying that for PVP you need 200%. And I agree with him. War Cry is blockable, dodgeable, and is affected by Damage reduced by %, such as Stormsheild. Also, you have little faster hit recovery unless you get VERY specific gear. Your ONLY advantage is in the fact that you can move with insane speed. Conveniently, using caster items for the fast cast also means you get more mana, which without your insight merc in pvp you're in even more of a hole. Keep in mind that I built my own singer for both pvm and pvp, of course - and that I have a fair amount of experience with him. That faster cast allows me to keep stun lock. One frame of difference would often have meant getting my face beaten in.
::Edit 2:: Just thought I would mention that a straight +mana mod is usually better than +mana/level, and is ALWAYS better than +energy. Mana/level isn't increased through battle orders, nor is energy. A +energy bonus will give you as much mana as it does energy, you get 1 mana/point of energy. The mana/level gives you the appropriate amount (though this mod on wizardspikes will give you almost 200 mana per spike- HUGE!!). +mana, on the other hand, will get doubled, or even tripled, by your battle orders.
Agreed. To be honest I havent done all that much PvP with the singer, although it was on my to do list. Perhaps I should go back to him and do some more testing. But as far as I got, the majority of my victories were mostly from the moment of hesitation of my opponents in the "whaaaaat...?" raised eyebrow when they actually see a singer trying to warcry them to death lol. Any experienced dueler tends to be a bigger bite than my singer can chew.
In any case, Ava, you had many questions, I think we got more answers than you bargained for. Hope this info is enough :xmas30: (not from me, mind you, since I made some conclusions about my own shortcomings with this build)
Agreed. To be honest I havent done all that much PvP with the singer, although it was on my to do list. Perhaps I should go back to him and do some more testing. But as far as I got, the majority of my victories were mostly from the moment of hesitation of my opponents in the "whaaaaat...?" raised eyebrow when they actually see a singer trying to warcry them to death lol. Any experienced dueler tends to be a bigger bite than my singer can chew.
In any case, Ava, you had many questions, I think we got more answers than you bargained for. Hope this info is enough :xmas30: (not from me, mind you, since I made some conclusions about my own shortcomings with this build)
*Chuckles* Yes, I know all too well how it is when people stop and stare. I've had people continue to try to fight me like I was a ww barb, some sort of demented BvC (I use base strength and dex, relying on my torch/anni to wear wizardspikes, so no one knows what weapons I use) that was trying to stun them as well. Actually... that might not be a bad idea. A long-duration warcry followed by triangle whirls... ew... Definately something to think about.
But yeah, true singers just aren't cut out for PvP. They can't do much against anyone with block, any dodging amazon, they literally CAN'T hurt ss-wearing javazons with block and dodge... Necro's bone armor absorbs singing.. it's fun to take down non-block sorcs though! :lol:
inanefedaykin
03-01-2006, 21:58
How about an insight ca on switch to whirl with?
How about an insight ca on switch to whirl with?
In order to whirl you need to invest some points into it. That alone (wthout mentioning the mastery point spendings) will make your warcry synergies pretty much weak and ineffective. as if the warcry at max synergies wasnt weak enough already.
the idea of WC and a triangle WW doesnt seem like much of a good idea. the stun doesnt seem to be much of a stun in anycase, despite the shown length. Of course, here I might be wrong, but this is just based on observation. If opponents can manage a few steps in between casts with the second to last BP, then it shurely wont be much of an advantage as a crippler before whirling.
In order to whirl you need to invest some points into it. That alone (wthout mentioning the mastery point spendings) will make your warcry synergies pretty much weak and ineffective. as if the warcry at max synergies wasnt weak enough already.
the idea of WC and a triangle WW doesnt seem like much of a good idea. the stun doesnt seem to be much of a stun in anycase, despite the shown length. Of course, here I might be wrong, but this is just based on observation. If opponents can manage a few steps in between casts with the second to last BP, then it shurely wont be much of an advantage as a crippler before whirling.
The point here would be to get the swirlies over their head - I'm fully aware of the fact that the initial hit recovery thing wouldn't really be that effective, but I'm talking... if you could get, say, a five second duration on your war cry stun, the swirlie is over their head. If you can namelock, tele, cast war cry once and then start whirling, every time it checks for a whirl and you're in range of them, they would either block, dodge, or go into hit recovery.
Maybe this is something to ask of the barbarian forum at large... I think I'm going to do that, see if anyone else has tried it.
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