Why my 562/672 mgf char doesn't find anything HELP!!!!

[WilcodenBrok]

Hello.... maybe this isn't that newbie this question but I don't know a place where to ask elsewhere.

Two days ago I traded a shako and i Topazed it. That day I was finding a lot nice items .... Enthousiastic as I was I was playing yesterday and today the whole day! And I could not find anything with the worth higher than pul rune.

When I do a magic run I do baal and I do travincial. It takes me 15 min total. Because I'm a necro I kill the whole place! Once I have enigma the runs would be faster. Is nice Item finding something like a baterie or something like that? Or does blizard think: Today you deserve nice items?

Is runes finding really randon or item finding really random... CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPAIN WHERE IT DEPENDS ON!!! HELP!!!!!

P.s How do I find High runes do they exist in the game? I believe almost that they come only by guys who are buying ****.

[Chewtoy]

its just bad luck..item and rune finding is random, and high runes do exist, they are just rare
magic find just increases your chance to get magic/rare/unique/set items, it doesnt increase you chance to get GOOD magic/rare/unique/set items
you are running trav and baal in hell right?
a lot of people run meph instead of trav cause hes pretty easy and can drop some really nice stuff
the best way to get runes is to just kill tons of high level monsters...you can also try hell forges and countess runs

[innorton38]

Hello.... maybe this isn't that newbie this question but I don't know a place where to ask elsewhere.

Two days ago I traded a shako and i Topazed it. That day I was finding a lot nice items .... Enthousiastic as I was I was playing yesterday and today the whole day! And I could not find anything with the worth higher than pul rune.

When I do a magic run I do baal and I do travincial. It takes me 15 min total. Because I'm a necro I kill the whole place! Once I have enigma the runs would be faster. Is nice Item finding something like a baterie or something like that? Or does blizard think: Today you deserve nice items?

Is runes finding really randon or item finding really random... CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPAIN WHERE IT DEPENDS ON!!! HELP!!!!!

P.s How do I find High runes do they exist in the game? I believe almost that they come only by guys who are buying ****.

Finding HRs is completely random and VERY rare. In all honestly, it's unlikely you'll ever see one drop no matter how long you play. I've played this game since it first came out (with the occasional retirement) and the highest non-forge rune I've ever found was a mal.... As for finding good items, mf will make it slightly more likely that you'll find good items but it's still basically random. The best thing you can do is keep killing everything in sight as quickly as possible and, *gasp*, lower your expectations. The game is designed so that the really powerful items are exceedingly rare. If HRs, CoA's and Tyreal's were dropping in every other run, Diablo 2 would have been popular for about a year...

Good luck

and

:xmas10:

[krischan]

As long as you don't have Enigma or other silly items like that armor, the best MF character regarding uniques and set items is a meteorb sorc, simply for her speed at killing Mephisto and a few other monsters and areas while wearing a ton of MF stuff. A Mephisto run takes 1-2 minutes, without using hacks and including game creation etc. if you know how to reach the stairs down quickly and how to kill him safely. Other profitable targets for her are Pindleskin and Eldritch and if you want a full clear of an area, teleport to the Ancient Tunnels or to the Chaos Sanctuarium, or start at the City of the Damned waypoint and kill everything along the River of Flames on the way to the CS.

[WilcodenBrok]

Wel I have strongly the feeling that those Item findings are correlated. When I find something gold I am almost sure that in the next 15 min.... I will find another gold item! When I find only blue items the next time that I will find a gold item will take some time.

In this case: There is a correlation between finding items. So it is not totaly random! So it depends on something.

In World of Warcraft when you spend too much time in the game your items findings and experience also slows down..... I have stronly the feeling that Blizzard also made some correlations in Diabloii.

Do other people have the same feeling?

[TheSpeaker]

IMO for a necromancer you should run the pits (Tamoe Highland cave, you know, between Black Marsh and Outer Cloister in act1) because of the boss packs and the high lvl of items that can drop.

[WilcodenBrok]

IMO for a necromancer you should run the pits (Tamoe Highland cave, you know, between Black Marsh and Outer Cloister in act1) because of the boss packs and the high lvl of items that can drop.
What is IMO?

[rsed]

Wel I have strongly the feeling that those Item findings are correlated. When I find something gold I am almost sure that in the next 15 min.... I will find another gold item! When I find only blue items the next time that I will find a gold item will take some time.

In this case: There is a correlation between finding items. So it is not totaly random! So it depends on something.


Nope. It is random, with probabilities determined by monster level on tables that can be looked up on this and other d2x sites. No mystique, no tricks, no silver bullet to riches in Three Easy Steps.... You just gotta keep killing a lot of high-level monsters. It takes patience.

Edit: IM(H)O = In my (humble) opinion. Find a lot of abbreviations here:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/abbreviation_guide.php

[Leohappy]

Yeah I've always been wondering myself... good stuff usually drops in "cycles". Mostly I'd get only blue items, but at certain moment I'd get a bunch of golds/greens.

Maybe there's a flaw in random seed generator?

[cynicalcat1]

just pure plain luck.i go for weeks wondering why the heck am i doing this.then in 1 week i found a griffons,2 tal armors,30 maras and a ber rune.just gotta hang in there. :xmas10:

[innorton38]

Yeah I've always been wondering myself... good stuff usually drops in "cycles". Mostly I'd get only blue items, but at certain moment I'd get a bunch of golds/greens.

Maybe there's a flaw in random seed generator?


I think it's basically random. If you find a shako during a cold period, it doesn't stand out but if you found a nice string of things, you call it a hot streak... I just think that good streaks stick out in our minds so we think that item finding is streaky. I believe my prof called this the Availability Heuristic in my psychology class... Google it and it'll explain better than I am... Learning is fun!

:xmas10:

[WilcodenBrok]

I think it's basically random. If you find a shako during a cold period, it doesn't stand out but if you found a nice string of things, you call it a hot streak... I just think that good streaks stick out in our minds so we think that item finding is streaky. I believe my prof called this the Availability Heuristic in my psychology class... Google it and it'll explain better than I am... Learning is fun!

:xmas10:
Yeahyeah a heuristic is a rule of thumb and the availabitiy heuristic is that you only look at those reasons that are available. I'm a student of Human technology interaction in Eindhoven (holland).

And Yes this heuristic came up in my mind. BUT like a real student you always have to be sceptic. And in this situation: I still have the feeling gold items go in a string.......but if NOBODY has this same feeling.......then you are right and I keep my mouth shut!

[RTB]

Everyone has this feeling where they can influence the drops they get with a certain action... It's needed to keep on MFing, or cold streaks would make you quit the game fast.

If the RNG didn't have streaks it wouldn't be so random, because streaks should happen in a random enviroment.

[WilcodenBrok]

Everyone has this feeling where they can influence the drops they get with a certain action... It's needed to keep on MFing, or cold streaks would make you quit the game fast.

If the RNG didn't have streaks it wouldn't be so random, because streaks should happen in a random enviroment.

Are you right?....that is the question...is it a streak in a random sequence or not? I still search for a waterproof argument.......

[krischan]

Are you right?....that is the question...is it a streak in a random sequence or not? I still search for a waterproof argument.......
A streak in the random sequence isn't enough. That streak also has to follow the order of things which random numbers are needed for, like where a monster runs to, when a dungeon level is to be created etc. etc.

Every software random number generator has streaks which is just another way of saying that parts of its results are predictable which is obviously the case if we know its algorithm and its internal state at the time the number is to be generated. We might know its algorithm, but not its internal state, so from our point of view, we normally can't distinguish a series of produced numbers from "true" randomness.

[WilcodenBrok]

A streak in the random sequence isn't enough. That streak also has to follow the order of things which random numbers are needed for, like where a monster runs to, when a dungeon level is to be created etc. etc.

Every software random number generator has streaks which is just another way of saying that parts of its results are predictable which is obviously the case if we know its algorithm and its internal state at the time the number is to be generated. We might know its algorithm, but not its internal state, so from our point of view, we normally can't distinguish a series of produced numbers from "true" randomness.

So we can't distinguish a "true" randomness from a correlated algoritme?

I know the possibility of succes is small, but I want to search out if other players know/thinking of a correlation somewhere in the game:

Like:
- Dying
- Go to town when almost killed baal
- The effects (more than only more drops) of multiple people

See you Wilco

[AnimeCraze]

The correlation is not going to be things so obvious like dying or going to town...... Unless the program that USES the RNG is flawed (like Nilk's maps), you should not be able to see the correlation in any obvious manner at all. Now, streaks should happen even in true randomness, try throwing a coin 200 times and see what I mean. There should be a streak of 7 consecutive heads/tails with an overwhelming probability.

We can distinguish true randomness and a correlated algorithm, by the use of statistical methods. Just a friendly reminder, human preception is not one of the tools, since it is flawed as well.

[WilcodenBrok]

The correlation is not going to be things so obvious like dying or going to town...... Unless the program that USES the RNG is flawed (like Nilk's maps), you should not be able to see the correlation in any obvious manner at all. Now, streaks should happen even in true randomness, try throwing a coin 200 times and see what I mean. There should be a streak of 7 consecutive heads/tails with an overwhelming probability.

We can distinguish true randomness and a correlated algorithm, by the use of statistical methods. Just a friendly reminder, human preception is not one of the tools, since it is flawed as well.

Hmm how can you be so sure that the correlation is not going to be obvious things? (ok ok you're probably right....). So until now:

- We can't distinguish a "true" randomness from a correlated algoritme.
- A perception of humans leads to the availability heuristic.
- The only smart way to search this out is by statisical methods.

If so many people are searching for items.. and in mine oppinion: the biggest group of players is real fanatic and wants only REALLY GOOD items. And there are groups who doing a lot of magic find runs.....

Ghe if someone is workless......why don't WE make a statistical program? Or is there?

[AnimeCraze]

The reason why things like dying or going back to town is not unlikely to cause correlation is because they waste an uncertain number of "moves". Each move should call the RNG at least once, to decide what move it is. I remembered playing with an emulator with save state for PS before, and the way I try to get the desired result is to make the opponent waste a certain number of moves. Of course, with save state, I can constantly reload......, including reloading the RNG.

- We can't distinguish a "true" randomness from a correlated algoritme.We can, by statistical methods. The programs are out there, for testing RNG's. There are few problems of actually applying this. The RNG is being seeded by time. This is 1 factor that you cannot control at all. Can you kill Baal with the accuracy of 1/10th of a second, and/or making him waste X moves? Second, so you know there is a correlation, but what does the correlation mean in the game? (the correlation is going to tell you what patterns can occur more often, or at very best, predict the next number; it doesn't tell you what it means in the game)

[krischan]

We can distinguish true randomness and a correlated algorithm, by the use of statistical methods. Just a friendly reminder, human preception is not one of the tools, since it is flawed as well.
That's true, of course, but regarding Diablo, the problem might be being able to make meaningful statistics about it. That makes it random again in our eyes. For example, if we consider Mephisto's drops, a lot of random mumbers might have been generated to produce the dungeons, its inhabitants and how they react to the character's presence while he moves to Mephisto. That's not an environment which is under the control of the viewer, unlike flipping a coin where you won't miss any generation of a random number.

Flipping a coin 200 times will most probably produce results like heads or tails 7 times in a row, but that's not a streak in the sense I meant. It would be one if it occurs with just 7 throws, i.e. you can also predict more or less accurately when a random event will produce a certain result.

[Kalaq]

This might go a bit off-topic but anyways its not all about the mf. Of course it does increase your changes of getting something. It doesnt guarantee any better drops. Sometimes i might do pindle / meph / other ugly nasty bossruns a week and best drops i get is 20 and ½ isenhart sets. Then on the other day i do 5 runs and get draculs, ik armor, verdungos etc. And sometimes it really feels that the less mf you have, the better changes of getting better items. I havent found not single arreat myself, but my brother (who kindly borrows me stuff and meh to him) has found 5 with 0mf. Just keep mf'ing, you never know when you get some godlike item.

[AnimeCraze]

That's true, of course, but regarding Diablo, the problem might be being able to make meaningful statistics about it. That makes it random again in our eyes. For example, if we consider Mephisto's drops, a lot of random mumbers might have been generated to produce the dungeons, its inhabitants and how they react to the character's presence while he moves to Mephisto. That's not an environment which is under the control of the viewer, unlike flipping a coin where you won't miss any generation of a random number.I agree. Diablo 2 is not turn based, so controlling the time factor is going to be hard. Even if you know how to predict the your "fate", you can't influence "fate", at least not in a meaningful way.

[arcticknight]

i remember back a while when i made my first hammerdin with no enigma so i couldnt tele. i really liked doing nm and hell andy till i got enigma. i had the timing down of when to throw a hammer at andy to get unique rings almost every run. running to the boss took up time so i did that, killing alot on the way down. i could never prove this but i never complained. also i have had experiances where if i had my sorc running hell meph i could switch skills back and forth alot and sometimes i would get a good drop as well as teleing down to meph, put a tp up and sitting a while before killing meph in town. i dont do this often enough to prove but on occasion it does something. also i found that on saturday morning i could find better items than when i mfed at another time during the day or week. just a few things i have noticed at times but never could prove. i havent had much luck this time starting ladder a few months ago and only coming up with 1 shako. im not playing quite as much as before but still... :xmas10: ha. well dont concentrate too hard on all this. it would be very hard to test a hypothesis without some outside help in D2. Just my 2 cents (or maybe more).

[WilcodenBrok]

It's about 4 days ago when I posted this thread. And still I didn't find a thing more worth than a pul. Correlations yes or no. I expected to find a lot mor nice **** with a 620 mgf-der. So this is also a bit a complain. The progress is going too slow! Many people who play diablo decide to quit because of the slow progression. Is there someway that I can make a complain about this? Maybe I should make a big list af people who also are complaining about the slow progress. Ok I can understand that too fast finding things is not good for the duration of the game. But somewhere is a limit and that limit is almost there! And of course that is the reason why people buy duped items! And at that moment the game would be screwed up.

AND

I WANT DIABLO III! Or more Uber games...........

[AnimeCraze]

Probably because you loaded up too much on MF and sacrificed for speed and power. That happens to a lot of people, and the way to solve it is to lower your MF (more like increasing your kill rate). Remember, MF only affects the quality of the item, NOT the base item type (which sucks). You get more Isenhart's instead of magic breast plates, for example.

[ranoutofnamez]

There is a glitch in mf running that I have discovered with a few friends of mine. I don't know if its wide spread, but I do like to share the wealth. If a person that still needs the Baal quest joins an already made game, and the said game is made by someone who has killed Baal. Work all the way to Baal, and let the person that has not completed the quest get the killing shot on Baal, and you get the quest level drop everytime. Its not a guarantee that uniques will drop from the heavens, but I have NEVER had gold coins, gems, white items drop when I do it this way. I make it a point to only do this with those that I trust, otherwise other peeps get in with their "kung-fu" clicking and snag everything before anyone sees it. I have not tried this with other bosses, but am in the process of checking it out. I will post if i find out.

[Noodle]

I have NEVER had gold coins, gems, white items drop when I do it this way.

You will never have white items drop from Hell Baal. He can only drop magic, rare, and unique, never white or grey.

- Noodle

[ByteMeHard]

How many runs are you getting per hour? You make no mention anywhere of your speed with your current MF. Are you not finding anything GOOD? Or are your not finding anything at all? I only run with 420 MF, and I still find Uniques, at least one per boss run usually. They're usually garbage, but sometimes.....

[Noodle]

Well, you also have to consider the diminishing marginal utility of MF - once you get past 300% or so, each percent increase means very little. You might as well keep your MF around 300 and try to stack your killing ability. Ultimately, it's likely to be more effective.

- Noodle

[lUSBlpornstar]

i found rends 2 skill valor and soj in one day oO is that call lucky ? i always find sojs Oo

[Lotheil]

I thought I also had a problem with my MF'ing, but I lowred my MF and but on some nice +skill items. Works great now, "only" got around 410MF and can do Hell meph (witch I almost only do :P) with no trouble.

Have done 160 runs in 3 days (gonna do another 40 later) and I have found, 2 Occu, 1 Herald, 2-3 Ravenfrost and other rings, 2 Shako and some other "crappy" items that I sell or give away.

So just hang in there!

[WilcodenBrok]

How many runs are you getting per hour? You make no mention anywhere of your speed with your current MF. Are you not finding anything GOOD? Or are your not finding anything at all? I only run with 420 MF, and I still find Uniques, at least one per boss run usually. They're usually garbage, but sometimes.....

Hi dudes...untill now....Yes I did find some items....but I'm playing less and less diablo. I do a baalrun and travincial in 15 minutes and then I kill the whole place (I think killing everything= better). I do travincial because I heard from some people they found HR there. I also run the pitts...but there are less monsers than in the baalrun and I can't complete the whole string of Corpse Explosion and the killing spree takes me a bit more time. And yes everything that drops is blue (most of the time my whole screen is blue).


I'm a necro and then you have Corpse Explosion --> it does not that hard depend on +1 skillers (only the radius is changing). And once you have cast a skillie the skillie stays on the same level. So I CE with my mgf items and when I need some skillies I switch to my caster weapons. The big disadvantage of the necro is that he can't "run" a baalrun.

Ok and my friends are sheering me up: With the whole group we have about 7 Ists and we only need about 1 ist for a nice Enigma (maybe there is someone that kind for trading an Enigma sheaper:)). Then we're use my mgf necro for the final blow.

Of course it is smart to use some systems but I still complain about the slow process.

Maybe I need some experience from other players. In this thread I hear a lot of "hot" streak findings and that I have to "hang in". But my question is: What does work the really best? Is it THAT different than my necro?

With an Enigma does it REALLY help that much. Or otherwise is a Sorc that much better then a level 91 necro. SO TELL ME YOUR EXPERIENCES maybe I'm really too slow. And the necro is not good for mgf ding?!??!?!

Such a tip from ranoutofnamez is verry nice and I'm sure I'm going to try it!

[Daematt]

I've built a tal Meterorb with skill lvls (34) and a MF of 540. It is my pride and joy. Whenever I come to Baal/Mep/Andy or pit runs i always change my SOJ to Nager rings. Regardless of this my finds are pitfullly. Ive just come out of a 15 Baal run and the best I found was a Tal lidless eye. It has even got to the point where I can predict the unique/set item I will get. I have a good ratio MF/killing but still nothing drops.

I realise you hav to hang in there - but it is wearing me down. i can zip thru these runs (even to the point where i get banned) and yet nothing godly has even fallen. The best items I have (Tal Amr/Ik Amr and uniques) all came through trading - paying over the odds at that. Ive been lucky enough to build a necro/mavina/Ik and Tal set but all through trading. Ive never had the rare set items ever drop.

I have started doing the pits etc... but this has prodcued nothing.

Regarding runes - Ive found that if you are in a game with a high level party member there is a greater % that one will drop. Ive seen a Vex/Sur/Lo drop in party games but the highest Ive ever got in a single game is a KO.

Some luck, for the love of god some luck.... :D

[Noodle]

Regarding runes - Ive found that if you are in a game with a high level party member there is a greater % that one will drop. Ive seen a Vex/Sur/Lo drop in party games but the highest Ive ever got in a single game is a KO.


Sheer coincidence, my friend. The level of party members in a game has absolutely no effect on the level of rune that will drop.

- Noodle

[Daematt]

I know but at times it does get me thinking. I even went through a stage of entering high level character games to do runs as I found the rewards to be greater. Again sheer luck - but my finds were always good (Monarch, Archnid & HOZ on 3xMeph)

Side Note: Why is it that in group games it takes longer to kill monsters. I always find they have higher resistance/life? Is it just me?

[Noodle]

They absolutely have higher life - in an eight player game, I believe their life is four and a half times higher, with a corresponding increase in experience. The amount of gold dropping will also rise, as will the number of items. The QUALITY of the items, however, is unchanged.n It's best to find a balance between kill rate and the inherent bonuses of playing in games with multiple players.

I play exclusively Single Player now (with some TCP/IP multiplayer games thrown in.) One of the nice features is that you can enter commands to make the game play as if there are other players in the game, up to eight. In version 1.09, you could set the players setting as high as 64. It makes the lower levels go by incredibly fast, even when playing solo.

- Noodle

[WilcodenBrok]

But.....if you can't do the cow game anymore....what is the best place to find a hight rune?

[Orphan]

If I remember correctly, a monster would need to have an mlvl of 80 or higher in order to drop every rune in the game (regular cows, on hell are mlvl 81). This would mean that any high density area that has a level of 80 or greater should be alright to do rune runs.

A list of the area levels can be found at: http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=218836, post #6.

Edit: Most of the "Ghost" creatures seem to have a higher chance of dropping a HR. By "Ghost", I mean:

- Gloam/Black Souls/Burning Souls - ones that shoot out lightning. An example are the ones found in worldstone keep.
- Ghosts/Dark Shapes/Wraiths/Specters/Apparition - ones that only have the melee attack. An example are those found in arcane sanctuary.
- Storm Caster/Doom Caster/Strangler - ones that shoot out those little balls that drain your mana. An example are those found in the flame river/chaos sanctuary.

[WilcodenBrok]

Hey it is true that I found my last Ist (my only high rune) out of a spooky. So I rather keep running baal!

[Noodle]

Please keep in mind that high runes, despite their prominence on the Realms, are incredibly scarce. There's no single place or monster that you can expect to run devotedly for a day, a week, or a month (or longer) and expect to get one. I play exclusively Single Player now, and between my seven characters at level 89 or higher I've found an Ist, two Guls, and a Vex in the last nine months. The Vex was in a /Players 8 game in the Ancient Tunnels, which is a level 87 area.

I don't want to discourage you, just don't want you to have unrealistic expectations. Playing on the Realms, you're far more likely to get high runes by running Hell Meph for unique items, and trading your way up to a duped rune. (And hoping you can avoid having it poof on you.) It may seem harsh, but it's a fact. Best of luck to you.

- Noodle

[WilcodenBrok]

Yes and that's just exactly why I keep posting this thread. I started really enthousiastic with the game. But if I get once a year one High Rune (while playing this every day.) the game becomes a bit like mindless gaming. And I really can understand why people buy duped ****. So it's mindless gaming or it's buying duped ****. I expect that that is exactly what Blizzard doesn't want to become.

So why not finding (just a bit) easyer items? Is it all about WOW? That makes more money and diablo less? But I hate the slow fighting in WOW!

P.s Was it a year ago easyer to find high runes or nice items?

[AnimeCraze]

Forge rush on 2 computer can get you the lower HR's without way too much effort. Also, you don't need HR's unless you are PvPing.

[WilcodenBrok]

Sorry I tried that with two computers....but it goes sometimes for stupid reasons. And it still takes a LOT of time. The most time takes the final baalrun. It does cost you at least 6 hours to get at the hellforge in nightmare.

[Naitti]

Ermm, if you have a decent level and equipped rushing char, like hammerdin or sorcy, you can rush a mule to hell difficulty with two computers in ~2 hours. Hardest part is to find a baal game: "Baal 4 quest" or something like that. Keep your lvl1-2 rushed character in the harrogath when the player, who needs the quest kills baal and you are free to go to next difficulty level.