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Jordanbcool
30-12-2005, 21:48
This is a revised and re-edited version of my original MvP pure summoner guide. I have included many more equipment options as well as some customization for melee and mage summoners. Enjoy!


After searching through the different guides in the druid forum I noticed a lack of a pure summoner guide. Even though there already is a guide by Lothric (which is very good I might add) the guide I am about to make will focus completely on summons rather then employing different skills to compliment them.

Introduction

Summoning druids are one of the greatest builds to play out there. They focus completely on their mercenary and summons to decimate their enemies. Even though they will not destroy everything in sight, they are much more fun to play then other MvP builds. With the right equipment you can give your summons a host of auras to further help them along the way and make them into an effective killing unit. A summoner “draws his power from others” as a necromancer would put it. However even though you will not have as many summons as a necromancer, you will be able to summon your pets out of thin air, making your playing style less restrictive and more adaptable.

First I will discuss your stat points and how to allocate them. This will give you a general idea on what you should accomplish but will leave some room to customize your build.

Strength- since you are a summoner you wont really need many points in here. I would suggest putting enough points in here to wear your heaviest armor.

Dexterity- you can decide whether to put 0 points in here or to put enough to get max block. I found that max block was a great thing to have and saved my butt many times. Put as many points as you like either nothing or enough for max block.

Vitality- everything else, more life is always better for any build.

Energy- none, you don’t really need energy because your summoning will be in town. When you run out of mana simply go to the town healer and fill up your bulb and continue to summon. If however you want to be more versatile 10 points in here is the maximum points you should put.

Next I will discuss the build and the differences between this guide and Lothric’s guide.

Skills

As you would imagine all your skills will be put into summoning but I would also advise a few points in one other tree. This will give you more life and be able to help out your summons in a way.

You may only have the following summoned at one time.

1-5 Ravens
1 Vine
1 Spirit
1 Grizzly, 3 dire wolves or 5 spirit wolves.

There are many different opinions on what is the best combination to have. Some people argue for grizzly and some people argue for dire wolf. I will explain the pros and cons of each so you can make your own deductions about what’s best.

Grizzly (pro)- This summon is the strongest one you have. A fully synergized grizzly will have life in the thousands rather then hundreds. He also has knock back, which is great for keeping monsters off your other summons/merc. He does great damage (1k and up) and combined with some good auras will be able to tank and kill any monster you come across.

Grizzly (con)- You will only be allowed to have one grizzly out at a time, which means less summons and less crowd control.

I found the Grizzly to be a huge help to me for Act bosses and against smaller packs of stronger monsters. However I found him to be less help when dealing with larger crowds.

Dire wolves (pro)- These guys do double the damage when they eat corpses. They are also much stronger then spirit wolves but there are more of them then one grizzly. These guys are very powerful and are my personal favorite because of their great crowd control.

Dire wolves (con)- Against Act bosses and stronger packs of monsters these guys usually get their butts handed to them.

Spirit wolves (pro)- These guys use teleport to offensively attack monsters and kill them even before you come across them. You can also have five of them, which is much more then one grizzly or three dire wolves.

Spirit wolves (con)- Even though there are more of these guys then the other choices their power is greatly diminished because it is split 5 ways. This means that in hell these guys will last only a minute or two before being destroyed. Also they do teleport a lot, which separates them from the rest of the party. This way they cant get the bonuses from your spirit or mercenary and become even weaker.

In my personal experience I relied on spirit wolves only through normal, then I moved on to dire wolves, which I used almost exclusively, even through hell. However in hell I found myself using grizzly on a lot of random uniques because he could handle them much better then my dire wolves.

Spirits

Oak sage- This spirit gives you more life. The basic principle is life over damage. I will not bore you will mathematical calculations because I think they aren’t needed. All you have to do is decide which one you think is better and max it.

HOW- This spirit gives you more damage and AR. This is my personal favorite because summons have had their life increased greatly in 1.10. Also if your pet does die they can quickly be resummned without any further duress.

A special thing I wanted to note is that Lothric had a very good point. I would like to quote him because after all he is the one how originally said it.

“One final point on the debate: Spirits die quickly in Hell. No matter where you cast them they will wander right back into the middle of combat, roll over and die. When you’re in the middle of combat and this happens to your Oak Sage the sudden loss of life can be fatal to both you and your minions. On the other hand, having your HoW killed in Hell is less serious as you and your minions are only losing out on a few seconds of additional damage.”

Again however it is all up to you to decide what’s best. I am merely presenting you with the necessary information to make that conclusion.

Vines- I used only one vine the entire time I played my summoner. Poison creeper was very useful to me to stop monster healing in hell.

Now since I have giving you a basic overview of the differences in this build and the summons it employs I will give you how many points you should actually put into these skills.

Ravens- 1 point. These guys cannot be hit but their damage is pathetic even at low levels. There is no reason why you should put more then 1 point in here because anymore would be a huge waste.

Poison creeper- 20 points. You might think that this is a big waste to go ahead and max this but it really isn’t. I decided to max this not because of the damage (which was small) but so the vine can simply survive in hell. If the vine is always dead he cant be much of a help in stopping a monster from simply healing all the damage it takes from my other summons.

Carrion vine- 0-1 point. This vine I only used a few times to get my life full. This vine isn’t actually needed so if you want to use it put only one point. If not then don’t put any points in here.

Oak sage- 1-20 points. I decided to max HOW instead of this so I only put one point in here. If however you disagree with me then this should be maxed.

HOW- 0-20 points. I think you should max this but others think life is more important so it’s up to you. This spirit gives you a huge bonus in AR and damage so that your summons can actually kill monsters in hell. What good is having summons that never die, but struggle to kill monsters anyways?

Spirit wolves- 20 points. This skill is a must. Even though Lothric made a good point about defense being less of an issue I found it very difficult for my summons to hit monsters in hell even with my HOW. If you max this skill you will get a healthy AR bonus to your Grizzly and Dire wolves.

Dire wolves- 20 points. These guys will be your main killing source in nightmare and hell. They also give passive bonuses to your grizzly and spirit wolves so you cant lose when maxing this. If you do not max this, your summons will be to weak to make it in hell mode the way monsters are in 1.11.

Grizzly- 20 points. This guy is the best summon of all the character classes because of the skills he uses. I used him almost as much as I did Dire wolves in hell because of his knock back effect. He is a great companion and is a very tough animal to kill even for something like a super unique venom lord.

Shape shifting

The 5 points you will spend in here are more then necessary to help your monsters kill in hell. I went down the WereBear path so I could have more life and so I could have access to a stun skill.

Werewolf- 1 point- needed prerequisite.

Lycanthropy- 1 point- gives you more life while in werebear form.

Werebear- 1 point- needed to actually change into a bear. You get a good life bonus, which will help you to stay alive in the later difficulties of hell.

Maul- 1 point- prerequisite/secondary skill.

Shockwave- 1 point- with you plus skills you can stun for a couple of seconds. What danger are monsters to you or your minions if they can’t attack?

Some people might say you could go down other paths to make yourself more versatile later on in hell, such as going elemental. Since you are a pure summoner the damage you would do is insignificant in hell and therefore a waste if you were to do that. I also found shockwave to be a huge help in stunning monsters so my minions could deal with them and the life bonus of werebear saved me many times in battle.

Equipment

I will not give you low level or mid level options because I think you should focus on the end result of your build rather then its lower stages. I will suggest only the best weapons and armor to make you a better summoner. If however you cannot afford what I propose you need not worry because your killing power is based on your summons rather then equipment unlike a barbarian who relies solely on equipment to be good.

Helmet
Jalal’s Mane (+2 druid skills, +2 shapeshifting, +20 Str/Energy, +20% AR, Resists)
Harlequin Crest (+2 skills, +1.5 life per level, +1.5 mana per level, 10% PDR, +2 stats)
Rockstopper (30% FHR, 15 to vitality, 10% DR, Good cold, lighting, and fire resists)

Armor
Arkaine’s Valor (+1-2 Skills, 30% FHR, +0.5 Vitality per level)
Chains of Honor Rune word (+2 skills, +20 Str, Replenish Life, +65% Resist all)
Skin of the Viper magi (+1 skills, 30% fcr, 120% Enhanced defense, +20-30 resists)
Bramble (lvl 15 thorns aura when equipped, 50% FHR, Increase maximum mana 5%, Mana regeneration 15%, Lvl 13 spirit of barbs charges, +resists)
Shaftstop (Damage reduced 30%, 30 to life)
Stone (2k+ defense, +15 all resistances, 16 to strength, 16 vitality, 10 energy, 60% FHR, lvl 16 clay golem charges)

Belts
Arachnid Mesh (+1 Skills, 20% FCR, Slows Target 10%, +5% Max Mana)
Verdungo’s Hearty Cord (10% FHR, 10-15% PDR, +30-40 Vitality, Replenish Life)
Trang-Oul’s Girth (Cannot Be Frozen, +25-50 Mana, +66 Life, Replenish Life)
String of ears (10% DR, 8% life leech)

Gloves
Frostburn (Maximum Mana 40%, Adds 1-6 Cold Damage)
Dracul’s grasp (8% life leech, 25% OW, +13 Str)


Boots
For summoners there aren’t many options here. Basically whatever you want is probably a good choice as far as boots go. You could use gores or something as simple as Nat’s boots. There really isn’t a wrong or right piece to use for this. Since there are so few options of which to choose from I decided to leave this “blank” and let you come up with what’s best.

Amulets
Mara’s Kaleidoscope (+2 skills, +5 all stats, +20-30% Resistances)
Good rare/crafted/magic amulet
Highlords wrath (+1 skills, 20% IAS, %chance for Deadly strike)

Rings
Bul-Katho’s Wedding Band (+1 skills, +0.5 life per level, 3-5% LL)
Stone of Jordan (+1 skills, Increase Max Mana 25%, +20 Mana)

There aren’t really any other choices here then these two. If you don’t want to worry about being frozen though I’d advise you throw in a raven frost to protect you against that.

Shields
Stormshield (35% PDR, +60% Cold Resist, +25% Lightning Resist, +30 Str 75% chance to block)
Lidless wall (+1 skills, 20% FCR, Increased max mana 10%)
Sigons Shield (+1 skills, 75% chance to block)
Spirit (+2 skills, 30% FCR, 55% FHR, 22 to vitality, cold, lightning, poison resists +35%, 111 to mana)

Weapons
Heart of the Oak Runeword (+3 Skills, 40% FCR, 7% ML, +10 Dex, Increase Max Mana 15%, +30-40% Resistances, Level 4 Oak Sage, Level 14 Raven)
Beast Runeword (Level 9 Fanaticism Aura, 40% IAS, 20%CB, 25% OW, 240-270% ED, +3 Werebear, +3 Lycanthropy, PMH, +25-40 Str, +10 Energy, Level 13 Summon Grizzly)
Call to Arms Runeword (+1 Skills, +40% IAS, +250-290%, 7% LL, +2-6 Battle Command, +1-6 Battle Orders, +1-4 Battle Cry, PMH, 30% MF)
Doom Runeword (+2 Skills, Level 12 Holy Freeze Aura, +45% IAS, +330%-370% ED, -40%-60% Enemy Cold Resistance, 20% DS, 25% OW, PMH, Freezes Target)
Wizardspike (+75 all resists, 50% FCR, Mana regeneration 15%)

These are all great choices and you CANNOT go wrong with any of them. Also against PI’s I suggest carrying around a gimmershed or some other form (bow) of elemental damage. This way you and your merc can do the killing while your other summons tank.

Ideal weapon setup for melee summoners

Rockstopper (30% FHR, 15 to vitality, 10% DR, Good cold, lighting, and fire resists)
Stone (2k+ defense, +15 all resistances, 16 to strength, 16 vitality, 10 energy, 60% FHR, lvl 16 clay golem charges)
String of ears (10% DR, 8% life leech)
Dracul’s grasp (8% life leech, 25% OW, +13 Str)
Highlords wrath (+1 skills, 20% IAS, %chance for Deadly strike)
Bul-Katho’s Wedding Band (+1 skills, +0.5 life per level, 3-5% LL)
Stormshield (35% PDR, +60% Cold Resist, +25% Lightning Resist, +30 Str 75% chance to block)
Beast Runeword (Level 9 Fanaticism Aura, 40% IAS, 20%CB, 25% OW, 240-270% ED, +3 Werebear, +3 Lycanthropy, PMH, +25-40 Str, +10 Energy, Level 13 Summon Grizzly)
Gore riders (30% Fr/w, 15% CB, 10% OW, 15% deadly strike)

This setup is aiming for as much damage reduction as you can possibly get. Also there are many different items that grant crushing blow or deadly strike to further help you kill monsters. Maximum block is a MUST for this build because you will be right next to your summons doing all the dirty work.

Ideal setup for a mage summoner/aura summoner

Jalal’s Mane (+2 druid skills, +2 shapeshifting, +20 Str/Energy, +20% AR, Resists)
Chains of Honor Rune word (+2 skills, +20 Str, Replenish Life, +65% Resist all) or Bramble (lvl 15 thorns aura when equipped, 50% FHR, Increase maximum mana 5%, Mana regeneration 15%, Lvl 13 spirit of barbs charges, +resists)
Arachnid Mesh (+1 Skills, 20% FCR, Slows Target 10%, +5% Max Mana)
Frostburn (Maximum Mana 40%, Adds 1-6 Cold Damage)
Good rare/crafted/magic amulet or Mara’s Kaleidoscope (+2 skills, +5 all stats, +20-30% Resistances)
Stone of Jordan (+1 skills, Increase Max Mana 25%, +20 Mana)
Spirit (+2 skills, 30% FCR, 55% FHR, 22 to vitality, cold, lightning, poison resists +35%, 111 to mana)
Beast Runeword (Level 9 Fanaticism Aura, 40% IAS, 20%CB, 25% OW, 240-270% ED, +3 Werebear, +3 Lycanthropy, PMH, +25-40 Str, +10 Energy, Level 13 Summon Grizzly) or Heart of the Oak Runeword (+3 Skills, 40% FCR, 7% ML, +10 Dex, Increase Max Mana 15%, +30-40% Resistances, Level 4 Oak Sage, Level 14 Raven)

This setup tries to give you as much +skills or auras as possible. This way you can make your summons much stronger then they already are and better able to kill/survive in hell. Your job is then of less importance, as all you do is sit back and re-summon dead minions. You also cast shockwave a lot so FCR is very important, and blocking is of less importance for obvious reasons.

Mercenary Act 2

This is a must to make your party stronger and better able to kill PI’s. He not only provides extra killing power but also helps your party defensively or offensively. He does however need some good gear to be able to kill and tank so this should be your main concern when building your summoner.

Armor
Eth Stone (3k+ defense, +15 all resistances, 16 to strength, 16 vitality, 10 energy, 60% FHR, lvl 16 clay golem charges)
Chains of Honor Rune word (+2 skills, +20 Str, Replenish Life, +65% Resist all)

If you want your mercenary to be harder to hit go with stone. If you want your mercenary to have a better aura and higher resists then go with COH.

Weapon
Ariocs needle (30% IAS, ignore targets defense, 394 poison damage over 10 seconds)
EBOTD war pike (1k damage, 60% IAS, 12% life leech, -25% target defense, +30 all attributes)

I’d actually go with Ariocs needle for two reasons: 1) its a lot cheaper then EBOTD 2) you need to use it for PI’s.

Helmets
Gaze (8% life leech, 20% DR)
Stealskull (5% life leech, 10% IAS and FHR, 227% enhanced defense)
Rockstopper (30% FHR, 15 to vitality, 10% DR, Good cold, lighting, and fire resists)

These are the ideal setup for your merc and will provide him with a lot of killing power and survivability in hell. There are other equipment choices (like gladiators bane) that have their own benefits. Just try to get your mercenary high life, defense, damage reduction, and maxed resists. You can either choose to go defense or offense (aura) when choosing a merc. Again this is all up to you and both are good choices.

Conclusion

I would like to thank Lothric and everyone else that pitched in to my last summoning guide. I got a lot of my information from Lothric’s guide and he was the basis for my first summoner. I gave a basic overview of what you need to do to accomplish a very fun and effective animal party. I hope you have as much fun as I did building and playing this summoner. Good luck to you and if anyone has any comments or suggestions fell free to leave them!

Other people that left helpful advice…

ElJefeII
Zigot_HD
Stoutewolf

the boss
31-12-2005, 13:32
hehe, still looks darn well good written to me :xmas30:
good job on the previous one too

Just a few thoughts here, Merc weapon can be Eth doom, while you have beast on your hand. You can have a Mer Pride so you can just safely equip a hoto for any situation.
Eth stones can now go up to 5k in a nice eth supped sacred armor

Good job!!

:xmas10:

Cppo-The-Wild
01-01-2006, 12:37
Reaper's Toll (ethereal) on act2 merc is very nice for breaking PI's
Nicely written btw :thumbsup:

-Cppo

Jordanbcool
04-01-2006, 15:21
Thank you for your comments/praise. I hope this gets stickied :xmas22:

ElJefeII
05-01-2006, 04:30
Thank you for your comments/praise. I hope this gets stickied :xmas22:


Hey I do too!

I am curious though as the weapon choices are all super expensive.

Have you considered something such as a Flesh Render? Maybe do a ladder, medium +skills level of a build.

I am trying to find a near 200% fleshrender and upgrade it. I want to smack things, yet not invest a lot into the Shapeshifting tree.

Thank you for your reference! :xmas5: It would be a first for having my names, Eljefe or Salo, to be mentioned in a stickied build for any reason!

(normally I am booted off of forums, let alone get thank you for something!)

DennisBergkamp
05-01-2006, 05:25
Nicely smoothed out guide :)

Yes, Reaper's toll is great (much better for PI's in my opinion than ariocs), and Obedience is awesome as well (plus being ridiculously cheap for it's power)...

I've been playing a summon druid using a Harmony bow and treachery dusk+Trang Gloves... deals about an extra 1k elemental dmg. I also really enjoy the lvl 10 Vigor it comes with along the Valk (mine's lvl 11 with +skills, so decently tough in hell). Too bad it's not the greatest source of damage against PIs (especially with more players in game). I was really heartbroken when I found out you can't use bow in wolf mode :(

ElJefeII
05-01-2006, 06:38
Nicely smoothed out guide :)

Yes, Reaper's toll is great (much better for PI's in my opinion than ariocs), and Obedience is awesome as well (plus being ridiculously cheap for it's power)...

I've been playing a summon druid using a Harmony bow and treachery dusk+Trang Gloves... deals about an extra 1k elemental dmg. I also really enjoy the lvl 10 Vigor it comes with along the Valk (mine's lvl 11 with +skills, so decently tough in hell). Too bad it's not the greatest source of damage against PIs (especially with more players in game). I was really heartbroken when I found out you can't use bow in wolf mode :(

it still works just doesnt project

Jordanbcool
05-01-2006, 14:56
Hey I do too!

I am curious though as the weapon choices are all super expensive.

Have you considered something such as a Flesh Render? Maybe do a ladder, medium +skills level of a build.

I am trying to find a near 200% fleshrender and upgrade it. I want to smack things, yet not invest a lot into the Shapeshifting tree.

Thank you for your reference! :xmas5: It would be a first for having my names, Eljefe or Salo, to be mentioned in a stickied build for any reason!

(normally I am booted off of forums, let alone get thank you for something!)

Hey you gave me some good advice, so including you was a must :xmas9:

wow that smiley looks weird.......

Forcefeedback
05-01-2006, 15:29
For gloves you could suggest bloodfists for fhr and life or trang oul's claws for fcr and resist.

You need to say the merc is act 2 nightmare offensive(might), my recommendation or act 2 nightmare defensive(holyfreeze), if you are lazy with shockwave.

Jordanbcool
06-01-2006, 01:25
For gloves you could suggest bloodfists for fhr and life or trang oul's claws for fcr and resist.

You need to say the merc is act 2 nightmare offensive(might), my recommendation or act 2 nightmare defensive(holyfreeze), if you are lazy with shockwave.

True, i just tried to be as broad as possible. Prayer isnt actually that bad either on your summons. I also kinda like defiance but i just wanted people to have the freedom to choose whatever they want.

ElJefeII
06-01-2006, 04:01
True, i just tried to be as broad as possible. Prayer isnt actually that bad either on your summons. I also kinda like defiance but i just wanted people to have the freedom to choose whatever they want.


How good is Blessed Aim? I am more and more a believer in it. perfect hits are always useful. how difficult is it for a decently high summons to hit?

Jordanbcool
08-01-2006, 14:40
How good is Blessed Aim? I am more and more a believer in it. perfect hits are always useful. how difficult is it for a decently high summons to hit?

Hmm i never thought of that, but yea if you ALWAYS hit even if you do "ok" damage you will kill monsters very quickly. This is why in my guide i suggest maxing summon wolf. That gives your grizzly and dire wolves much higher AR. We all know how high the defense has been amped up in hell so i think this is a must. Try it out, you can always just go back to nightmare or hell and hire another merc if you not satisfied with the results. The key to truely knowing what works best is to test it.

-jordan

Forcefeedback
08-01-2006, 16:21
How good is Blessed Aim? I am more and more a believer in it. perfect hits are always useful. how difficult is it for a decently high summons to hit?
From maxed spirit wolves you get +525% attack rating, from level 15 blessed aim you get +285% attack rating.
Attack rating without BA: 100% + 525% = 625%
Attack rating with BA: 100% +525% + 285% = 910%

ratio added: (910 - 625) / 625 = 0,456

It might be more useful than might if you attack with something too since you wouldn't need as much ar charms etc.

Jordanbcool
09-01-2006, 15:41
Since i go with HOW and maxed summon wolves i tend to go defensive when choosing my merc. Just to kinda balance everything out. I really like prayer because it heals your whole party which i found keeps my HOW alive alot longer.

-jordan

ElJefeII
10-01-2006, 04:42
Some +skills on the merc would be good for a Prayer merc. hm

does he +pally skills or +combat skills from pally combat things?

I forget. I thought yes at first. but i duno

Forcefeedback
11-01-2006, 03:55
Some +skills on the merc would be good for a Prayer merc. hm

does he +pally skills or +combat skills from pally combat things?

I forget. I thought yes at first. but i duno
I'm pretty sure its only +all skills. They're desert warriors after all, not some goody goody paladins. ;)

Zigot_HD
12-01-2006, 07:05
Hi and thx for including my name in the credit.

All skill items will work.

In general, an act2 merc are great with their aura ( might, holyfreeze, prayer are best when u have pets )

But of course, a rogue merc in act 1 does great also with right gear.

Z

Jordanbcool
18-01-2006, 01:11
i also like barbarian mercs because of their knockback :) i also think they look more scary then other mercs :)

ElJefeII
18-01-2006, 02:08
i also like barbarian mercs because of their knockback :) i also think they look more scary then other mercs :)


yes indeed, a barb merc would be a good alternative. THey do a lot of damage. If the PI could be figured out, a nice weapon is Bul kathos with an Amn in it or a shael rune. PI is complicated for a merc. they tend to keep hitting things they cannot kill or leech off of. Now a build with heart of Oak and one of these guys from norm would be a very formidable opponent. They do the most damage per minute of any merc, they run around and smack the crap outa things nonstop. Shaftstop and Tal Helm are my favs for this character.

Jordanbcool
23-01-2006, 02:15
This is off topic but im very very annoyed that the druid moderator will not even answer my PM's. Shows how much people still care about this game and what its become. Just like blizzard soon this whole site will fall apart.....o well im playing guild wars now and its everything diablo II isnt :) mostly NO DUPING!!! or any of the other problems of diablo....

-jordan

p.s. i wish someone would come along and either breath new life into this game or come out with diablo III. For christ sake, i JUST bought guild wars and already they have an expansion coming out!!?? talk about on the ball.....i've been playing diablo for 3 years now and i've never seen such enthusiasm about a game:azn:

omgitsmeta
23-01-2006, 03:22
I wouldn't expect Diablo III anytime soon. Hell, Blizzard didn't even announce anything related to Starcraft 2, which is probably the most awaited game of all time. Even less DIII, since Diablo already has 2 titles and LoD and Starcraft just 1 and one expansion. :(

Meanwhile, they keep developing crappy games such as the horrible Warcraft series. -_-

ElJefeII
23-01-2006, 10:56
yeah WCIII and WoW are such money makers they wont bother for a while.
which is lame because they only would make much more money making more games....


Starcraft II would be the most purchased and played game in the world.

IF IT WAS GOOD!

I think for a long time people have feared that any slight flaw would kill sc2 compared to sc1.

I still play sc1. it is an awesome game.

NOw here is an idea I have said many times: Make a re-nake of sc that is 1600x1200 at max resolution, has full 3D units, has EAX and all that sound stuff capable, BUT keep the game the exact same. That would be so sweet I couldnt help but piss my pants.

yes im geeky. But 10 years now the game has been 640x480 :shocked:

omgitsmeta
23-01-2006, 11:53
That's what a lot of hardcore SC:BW fans are suggesting: that the "skeleton" of SC1 is kept and the graphics, etc improved. Maybe add some neutral units for UMS maps, add more tilesets and upgrade the campaign editor... and maybe even add 1 or 2 units to every race. If Blizzard is going to make it from scratch, it will most likely be worse than SC1. Their fault for setting a quality pattern so high in the first game... now everyone is skeptical of SC2's quality(compared to SC1 it is). SC:BW is still, in terms of gameplay, balance and originality, the best RTS out there.

I for one am one of the few here not looking forward for D3. Mostly because that'll have to be an exercise in creativity: how many new original, never-done-before skills can you add to this game without copying most of D2's existing skills? D2 was overkill, actually: 7 characters with around 30 skills each, dozens of monster types, hundreds and hundreds of items, all major villains are dead, a good portion of the entire world has been shown already... what new things are there to be added? What was originally a modest, mindless, very repetitive but fun gothic hack'n'slash/dungeon crawl game became an epic adventure.

I don't believe Blizzard is capable of turning D3 and SC2 into really really good sequels to their previous games, mostly because the "base" material already has almost unsurpassable quality.

But then this is off-topic and I should respect Jordan's thread. :)

Another off-topic theme, though: the attention to D2 today is far bigger than the attention to any other game released at the same time, so I don't think we can complain too much.

Jordanbcool
23-01-2006, 15:53
That's what a lot of hardcore SC:BW fans are suggesting: that the "skeleton" of SC1 is kept and the graphics, etc improved. Maybe add some neutral units for UMS maps, add more tilesets and upgrade the campaign editor... and maybe even add 1 or 2 units to every race. If Blizzard is going to make it from scratch, it will most likely be worse than SC1. Their fault for setting a quality pattern so high in the first game... now everyone is skeptical of SC2's quality(compared to SC1 it is). SC:BW is still, in terms of gameplay, balance and originality, the best RTS out there.

I for one am one of the few here not looking forward for D3. Mostly because that'll have to be an exercise in creativity: how many new original, never-done-before skills can you add to this game without copying most of D2's existing skills? D2 was overkill, actually: 7 characters with around 30 skills each, dozens of monster types, hundreds and hundreds of items, all major villains are dead, a good portion of the entire world has been shown already... what new things are there to be added? What was originally a modest, mindless, very repetitive but fun gothic hack'n'slash/dungeon crawl game became an epic adventure.

I don't believe Blizzard is capable of turning D3 and SC2 into really really good sequels to their previous games, mostly because the "base" material already has almost unsurpassable quality.

But then this is off-topic and I should respect Jordan's thread. :)

Another off-topic theme, though: the attention to D2 today is far bigger than the attention to any other game released at the same time, so I don't think we can complain too much.


I agree that if they try and make SC2 from scratch it would be a total failure. Starcraft was the whole reason i got into diablo II in the first place. I remember back in the day (way way back) when i first started playing starcraft. Playing as the protoss and kicking butt with my carriers on money maps was my version of a good friday night. Just like diablo i would spend countless hours upon hours playing and playing, until someone introduced me to diablo II and then i was hooked. Bought the expansion and have been a rabid addicted fan every since. I dont think they will come out with a D3 in my opinion. I really dont think they thought diablo II would be this popular either. Maybe they did go "over board" with diablo II but i loved every second of it. Playing the assasin for the first time and watching her traps rip apart everything gave me chills. I honestly wouldnt mind if the D3 they came out with (like S2) was pretty much the same thing. I wouldnt mind having the same characters (for the most part) or the three prime evils, or even the same basic plot. Maybe in diablo 3 after you defeat all the prime evils mortal bodies over thousands of years they do pretty much what they did the first time and one of them somehow comes back. This way they could revamp the acts and make the cities more modern (say industrial revolution). This way you would have different forms of weapons and evil yet maintain what most people love in the game, magic. These are just ideas and i've been thinking about them for ages. I know if a diablo 3 was made in the time period of the early 1800's most people would reject it but its only ideas. All i can do now is wait for them to come out with crap, nothing, or surprisingly to amaze and dazzle us once again with a greater title in the diablo series.

-jordan

omgitsmeta
23-01-2006, 22:43
I agree that if they try and make SC2 from scratch it would be a total failure. Starcraft was the whole reason i got into diablo II in the first place. I remember back in the day (way way back) when i first started playing starcraft. Playing as the protoss and kicking butt with my carriers on money maps was my version of a good friday night. Just like diablo i would spend countless hours upon hours playing and playing, until someone introduced me to diablo II and then i was hooked. Bought the expansion and have been a rabid addicted fan every since. I dont think they will come out with a D3 in my opinion. I really dont think they thought diablo II would be this popular either. Maybe they did go "over board" with diablo II but i loved every second of it. Playing the assasin for the first time and watching her traps rip apart everything gave me chills. I honestly wouldnt mind if the D3 they came out with (like S2) was pretty much the same thing. I wouldnt mind having the same characters (for the most part) or the three prime evils, or even the same basic plot. Maybe in diablo 3 after you defeat all the prime evils mortal bodies over thousands of years they do pretty much what they did the first time and one of them somehow comes back. This way they could revamp the acts and make the cities more modern (say industrial revolution). This way you would have different forms of weapons and evil yet maintain what most people love in the game, magic. These are just ideas and i've been thinking about them for ages. I know if a diablo 3 was made in the time period of the early 1800's most people would reject it but its only ideas. All i can do now is wait for them to come out with crap, nothing, or surprisingly to amaze and dazzle us once again with a greater title in the diablo series.

-jordan


You know what idea I'd fully support? A sci-fi, futuristic game that played like Diablo. Instead of the D2 classes, you got Weapon Specialists, Psychics, Heavy Soldiers, Vehicle Specialists, Cyborgs etc. Think of it as a Diablo version of Shadowrun or something, with plenty of ravaged cities, tech centers and stuff. Now that would rock. You'd get machine guns and grenade launchers instead of Frozen Orbs and Tornadoes, machine sentries instead of assassin traps, automated droids instead of wolves and skeletons and so on. That'd so damn rock. And it's an entirely new universe as well. :thumbsup:

ElJefeII
23-01-2006, 22:51
hellgate london thing is that.

I am guessing you will enjoy that then!

I know I will so long as it isnt over kiddie crap and console looking. *vomits*

Jordanbcool
24-01-2006, 14:26
You know what idea I'd fully support? A sci-fi, futuristic game that played like Diablo. Instead of the D2 classes, you got Weapon Specialists, Psychics, Heavy Soldiers, Vehicle Specialists, Cyborgs etc. Think of it as a Diablo version of Shadowrun or something, with plenty of ravaged cities, tech centers and stuff. Now that would rock. You'd get machine guns and grenade launchers instead of Frozen Orbs and Tornadoes, machine sentries instead of assassin traps, automated droids instead of wolves and skeletons and so on. That'd so damn rock. And it's an entirely new universe as well. :thumbsup:

damn that would be badass! you could have like terminator mercs with automatic machine guns!!!! Come on lord of terror show me what ya got!:azn:

ElJefeII
24-01-2006, 17:05
damn that would be badass! you could have like terminator mercs with automatic machine guns!!!! Come on lord of terror show me what ya got!:azn:


Well you take Shadowrun character development, use Fallout II backdrop, humour and time period, and put in hack and slash system of a DiabloII with all of its item finding and all that.

be a sick game.

Shaperla
24-01-2006, 20:28
This is off topic but im very very annoyed that the druid moderator will not even answer my PM's. Shows how much people still care about this game and what its become. Just like blizzard soon this whole site will fall apart.....o well im playing guild wars now and its everything diablo II isnt :) mostly NO DUPING!!! or any of the other problems of diablo....

Sorry, was kinda waiting to see if any edits would come up based on the comments being made. Regardless, one PM got me to look at the thread, see there was still ideas being tossed out, and decide to wait to see where it goes. but there hasn't been a PM since. Sorry for not reading your mind on that.

Jordanbcool
25-01-2006, 00:38
Sorry, was kinda waiting to see if any edits would come up based on the comments being made. Regardless, one PM got me to look at the thread, see there was still ideas being tossed out, and decide to wait to see where it goes. but there hasn't been a PM since. Sorry for not reading your mind on that.

lol you could've told me you atleast got my message....I kept checking to see if you got my message and it said it was sent so i thought you were on vacation or that i didnt meet certain criteria so i just kinda gave up. I guess i should've PMed you more.....eh

regardless im glad your looking at it, and tonight whenever i get a chance i'll look over the suggestions/comments one more time and PM you when im done.:laugh:

woooo of all the guides i've concieved one is getting some attention!!

NacRuno
25-01-2006, 12:45
Hello, that's a very nice guide there, but i wish to ask a few questions. I am planning to build a summoner soon, but i was rather impressed by the idea of hunter druid. I haven't seen a recent guide or talk about it but i really want to give him a try. Do you have any ideas about such a build?

Skill would go about the same and dex would be much more important of cource. And with that build HoW should be the one to use i guess. Does anybody has gear ideas about it? Should CtC or Elemental damage be preferred on the bow? I am not asking this only to the writer of the guide as it requires a bit different experimentation with druid but if anybody has ideas about this, i think it is better be told under this thread.

Have fun all with the game...

Jordanbcool
25-01-2006, 16:19
Hello, that's a very nice guide there, but i wish to ask a few questions. I am planning to build a summoner soon, but i was rather impressed by the idea of hunter druid. I haven't seen a recent guide or talk about it but i really want to give him a try. Do you have any ideas about such a build?

Skill would go about the same and dex would be much more important of cource. And with that build HoW should be the one to use i guess. Does anybody has gear ideas about it? Should CtC or Elemental damage be preferred on the bow? I am not asking this only to the writer of the guide as it requires a bit different experimentation with druid but if anybody has ideas about this, i think it is better be told under this thread.

Have fun all with the game...

There is a hunter guide in the forum sticky. It's part of a few different variations of a summoner druid. My guide however is for a pure summoner druid.

-jordan

ElJefeII
28-01-2006, 03:09
There is a hunter guide in the forum sticky. It's part of a few different variations of a summoner druid. My guide however is for a pure summoner druid.

-jordan

So far I am level 40. I only did one baal game in normal, I did most of the killing.

I have now a 197% ED (200 is perfect) with a shael FleshRender. Quite possibly the best cheaper weapon possible for this build.

I have 1 in the recommended shapeshifting tree, I have 940 hps without putting more than 100 in vitality... cough cough cough... sick!

My summoned Friend Bear mauls things decently well. I do see the need for him to have more attack rating. I think a heavy investment into spirit wolves is a good idea. I also think that dire wolves might not get maxed but instead an even push into both spirit and dire. The grizzly with using Shockwave really has his own playday. I can see that he MIGHT get killed ONE DAY in hell but really... he has over 2500 hitpoints and doesnt seem to take damage. only time he did was against baal in normal. He was down to 70% health.

Here's some notes: crushing blow, prevent monster heal, and some open wounds makes very quick work with the summons pounding.

Note 2: Poison creeper has the most points, is near 17. He does do a lot of damage in nightmare. Alot? He might not KILL anything but he keeps them ticking.... The bar keeps going down.

Note 3: Ravens: Man. these things REALLY rock. They arent that dumb at all, and actually, if they keep nailing the same couple of guys, thats ok, they keep them blinded. I am seeing that maybe I just MIGHT possibly put 2-3 more from base 1 in them. They trully change the battlefield. They stop monsters from casting at times, they monsters swipe at them it appears. I noticed that when I am down to zero ravens, things swarm my team much faster. I have to see that with all of my +gear what level the ravens will be. It is part of a "viable" build though. Just make sure pcreeper and bear are maxed, everything else seems up for grabs as of now.

Note 4: Prevent monster heal. If the monster cannot gain hitpoints back ever, pcreeper with his multimats and such does a good deal of damage. I am seeing that PMH is a good modifier to have. Better than OW. OW is hard to command at a respectable %. Reason being is that PMH triggers easily and allows the team to go kill. OW has to trigger, it might not, and, it might wear off before that monster comes back for some more action. FLeshrender is pwning.

Note 5: There might be room for a Blessed Aim merc vs a Might merc. I am not sure just yet. Can anyone give me an idea of how to calculate Bear or doggie attack ratings? I would hate to have to increase HoWolverine past more than 5-6 base.

Jordanbcool
28-01-2006, 05:44
So far I am level 40. I only did one baal game in normal, I did most of the killing.

I have now a 197% ED (200 is perfect) with a shael FleshRender. Quite possibly the best cheaper weapon possible for this build.

I have 1 in the recommended shapeshifting tree, I have 940 hps without putting more than 100 in vitality... cough cough cough... sick!

My summoned Friend Bear mauls things decently well. I do see the need for him to have more attack rating. I think a heavy investment into spirit wolves is a good idea. I also think that dire wolves might not get maxed but instead an even push into both spirit and dire. The grizzly with using Shockwave really has his own playday. I can see that he MIGHT get killed ONE DAY in hell but really... he has over 2500 hitpoints and doesnt seem to take damage. only time he did was against baal in normal. He was down to 70% health.

Here's some notes: crushing blow, prevent monster heal, and some open wounds makes very quick work with the summons pounding.

Note 2: Poison creeper has the most points, is near 17. He does do a lot of damage in nightmare. Alot? He might not KILL anything but he keeps them ticking.... The bar keeps going down.

Note 3: Ravens: Man. these things REALLY rock. They arent that dumb at all, and actually, if they keep nailing the same couple of guys, thats ok, they keep them blinded. I am seeing that maybe I just MIGHT possibly put 2-3 more from base 1 in them. They trully change the battlefield. They stop monsters from casting at times, they monsters swipe at them it appears. I noticed that when I am down to zero ravens, things swarm my team much faster. I have to see that with all of my +gear what level the ravens will be. It is part of a "viable" build though. Just make sure pcreeper and bear are maxed, everything else seems up for grabs as of now.

Note 4: Prevent monster heal. If the monster cannot gain hitpoints back ever, pcreeper with his multimats and such does a good deal of damage. I am seeing that PMH is a good modifier to have. Better than OW. OW is hard to command at a respectable %. Reason being is that PMH triggers easily and allows the team to go kill. OW has to trigger, it might not, and, it might wear off before that monster comes back for some more action. FLeshrender is pwning.

Note 5: There might be room for a Blessed Aim merc vs a Might merc. I am not sure just yet. Can anyone give me an idea of how to calculate Bear or doggie attack ratings? I would hate to have to increase HoWolverine past more than 5-6 base.


I dunno ravens always annoyed me at how they act, maybe its just me but from what i observed they are retarded. I wouldnt be surprised if they attacked my own minions. I just cast them to add "insult to injury", just to do that little bit more of damage. I liked maxing all three minions (wolves, dire, grizzly) for the bonus AR, life, and damage. I actually use regular wolves at times when im bored and im in act1. I love it when im missing one and i find it 3 screens away attacking some random corrupted rouge. Gives me a little chuckle....anyways i dont know how to calculate all that as i suck at math.

BTW. with the poison creeper...if your summons can handle it go into an eight player cow game. The poison mat damage is insane because of the way its calculated from monsters. Im pretty sure more monsters spawn in 8 player games but im not 100%. Anyways i took my summons into a game like that and ran off by my own. Boy did those cows fall fast, i almost felt sorry for them. PC was my main killer in that level, all it needed was a good tank to keep from dieing and he was owning everyone.

-jordan

ElJefeII
30-01-2006, 10:02
what the heck level was your Pcreeper !!???

that pimp's ho'z

was it hell cows?

blinko
30-01-2006, 10:55
yeah thx champ! I have been waiting to build one of these babies, but i have been told too many times they wouldn't make it to hell.

STICKY THIS GUIDE!!

ElJefeII
31-01-2006, 02:56
yeah thx champ! I have been waiting to build one of these babies, but i have been told too many times they wouldn't make it to hell.

STICKY THIS GUIDE!!


So far in NM, my crew wrecks things.

you figure in hell I will do about 2x the damage as a character, and the summons will do 3-4x. they will kill in hell, and very easily at that.

What is variable is Heart of Wolverine. I wouldnt sink a lot into it, 2-4 and then wait and see how it works. Spirit wolves adds such a key and hidden punch to the build, I think I might max them before Dire. (of course grizzly will be maxed before all of them)

Jordanbcool
31-01-2006, 04:20
what the heck level was your Pcreeper !!???

that pimp's ho'z

was it hell cows?

Pretty high, 30 something. Thats high in my opinion, but its not really the level of your poison creeper as much as it is how many monsters are in the game. If your in a game (or place i should say) with alot of monsters (like the cow level) then your PC will do TONS of damage. They are however like sorcs dealing crazy poison damage but dieing really easily. Thats why i recommend having the rest of your summons up to par so they can protect your valuable vine. Also cows have a pretty low resistance to poison which makes it work even better. Dont try and play this guy in Act IV with all those venom lords that are immune to poison. Thats a no no.....

BTW- it was hell cows

-jordan

ElJefeII
01-02-2006, 05:07
So far, the build is chugging along. The usage of the Fleshrender was a nice choice. Now I need a Pul rune when I get to hell so I can upgrade it.

Gear I have traded for over the past month:

Highlord's ammy - this was the most difficult, people wanted too much for it
Shako - bought it for an Um, which apparently is a good deal. (ladder)
Upgraded Vipermagi - has the -11 MDR and +1 skills I like to have. 948 armour too! (the res all is not a big one, i use absorb and MDR gear instead on a build like this)
Ravenfrost - seems to be generic but good
Laying on of Hands - I might change this, but I just found it, this will ensure demon deaths in hell and give the 20% ias I need
Goblin Toe boots. 25% cblow and -1 MDR.
String of Ears - 6% leeech, -14 MDR
Dwarf Star - +40 life and -14 MDR

total is -40 MDR. Good for hell on a big hitpoint character. (tal's plate is best for all of this but lacks skills and I dont have it)

I am figuring the 45% crushing blow will be decent to get things moving. I will probably switch to a 10% cblow Blood Glove, but I cannot get 20% ias to roll at all, so that's out for now. I cannot think of another glove that gives good mods that has 20% ias. I would have gone the Bloodfist route but then I would be missing 10% ias. No room for it.

SHIELD: Need recommendations here. I could do a pdiamond stormshield, I have one, someone like kinda gave it to me for almost nothing. Freaky. But, I am considering maybe Spirit?? I duno. SOmething with +skills maybe? Hm. I cannot figure it yet. Any suggestions?

Ladder, remember.

Level 49 just entering act III NM.