View Full Version : Area Levels - Classic Diablo
I didn't see a thread on this, so I thought I'd post one up. Thanks to RTB for just confirming something for me.
I've broken the areas up into Acts. I can't think of a good way to set it up, so I've left it the same way I typed it up. I've tried to keep the areas in the order you meet them.
It's Area Name = NormalLvl / NightmareLvl / HellLvl.
Act 1:
Blood Moor = 1/26/51
Den of Evil = 1/26/51
Cold Plains = 2/27/52
Cave Level 1 = 2/27/52
Cave Level 2 = 2/27/52
Buriel Grounds = 3/28/53
Crypt = 3/28/53
Mausoleum = 3/28/53
Stony Field = 4/29/54
Tristram = 6/31/56
Underground Passage Level 1 = 4/29/54
Underground Passage Level 2 = 4/29/54
Dark Woods = 5/30/55
Black Marsh = 6/31/56
Hole Level 1 = 5/30/55
Hole Level 2 = 5/30/55
Tower Cellar Level 1 = 7/32/57
Tower Cellar Level 2 = 7/32/57
Tower Cellar Level 3 = 7/32/57
Tower Cellar Level 4 = 7/32/57
Tower Cellar Level 5 = 7/32/57
Tamoe Highland = 8/33/58
Pit Level 1 = 7/32/57
Pit Level 2 = 7/32/57
Monastry Gate = 8/33/58
Outer Cloister = 9/34/59
Barracks = 9/34/59
Jail Level 1 = 10/35/60
Jail Level 2 = 10/35/60
Jail Level 3 = 10/35/60
Inner Cloister = 10/35/60
Cathedral = 11/36/61
Catacombs Level 1 = 11/36/61
Catacombs Level 2 = 11/36/61
Catacombs Level 3 = 12/37/62
Catacombs Level 4 = 12/37/62
Secret Cow Level = 28/53/78
Act 2:
Sewers Level 1 = 13/38/63
Sewers Level 2 = 13/38/63
Sewers Level 3 = 14/39/64
Rocky Waste = 14/39/64
Stony Tomb Level 1 = 12/37/62
Stony Tomb Level 2 = 12/37/62
Dry Hills = 15/40/65
Halls of the Dead Level 1 = 12/37/62
Halls of the Dead Level 2 = 13/38/63
Halls of the Dead Level 3 = 13/38/63
Far Oasis = 16/41/66
Maggot Lair Level 1 = 17/42/67
Maggot Lair Level 2 = 17/42/67
Maggot Lair Level 3 = 17/42/67
Lost City = 17/42/67
Ancient Tunnels = 17/42/67
Valley of Snakes = 18/43/68
Claw Viper Temple Level 1 = 14/39/64
Claw Viper Temple Level 2 = 14/39/64
Harem Level 2 = 13/38/63
Palace Cellar Level 1 = 13/38/63
Palace Cellar Level 2 = 13/38/63
Palace Cellar Level 3 = 13/38/63
Arcane Sanctuary = 14/39/64
Canyon of Magi = 16/41/66
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Tal Rasha's Tomb = 17/42/67
Duriels Lair = 17/42/67
Act 3:
Spider Forest = 21/46/71
Arachnid Lair = 21/46/71
Spider Cavern = 21/46/71
Great Marsh = 21/46/71
Swampy Pit Level 1 = 21/46/71
Swampy Pit Level 2 = 21/46/71
Swampy Pit Level 3 = 21/46/71
Flayer Jungle = 22/47/72
Flayer Dungeon Level 1 = 22/47/72
Flayer Dungeon Level 2 = 22/47/72
Flayer Dungeon Level 3 = 22/47/72
Lower Kurast = 22/47/72
Kurast Bazaar = 22/47/72
Upper Kurast = 23/48/73
Sewers Level 1 = 23/48/73
Sewers Level 2 = 24/49/74
Ruined Temple = 23/48/73
Disused Fane = 23/48/73
Forgotten Reliquary = 23/48/73
Forgotten Temple = 24/49/74
Ruined Fane = 24/49/74
Disued Reliquary = 24/49/74
Kurast Causeway = 24/49/74
Travincal = 24/49/74
Durance of Hate Level 1 = 25/50/75
Durance of Hate Level 2 = 25/50/75
Durance of Hate Level 3 = 25/50/75
Act 4:
Outer Steppes = 26/51/76
Plains of Despair = 26/51/76
City of the Damned = 27/52/77
River of Flame = 27/52/77
Chaos Sanctuary = 28/53/78
Hope this'll be of some use to some people
Exactly how did you come up with these numbers?
- Akukami
Noite Escura
30-12-2005, 16:00
Hmmm, I think the Darkness site had that numbers for Normal levels(I'm sure they have it for monsters). You just add 25 NM and 50 to Hell. It's the same way for monsters.
If you guys can confirm that this is correct I will add it to the sticky.
fledgeling
30-12-2005, 18:10
whats the best way to exp?
monsters need to be 1level higher than the player? or the same level as the player
tritruns are definitely NOT the fastest way
I think around level 13 you get a lot of exp in sewers 2 but nearly 0 exp in halls of the dead
Immortality
30-12-2005, 18:36
I'll have to disagree about the hell cs lvl and pretty much everything in hell act 4. I use hell cs to GET to lvl 78, not from it. I would say 65-70 for cs. Depending on the build.
And as for the normal cow lvl, if you talking about being able to kill cows on your own, then your almost right, but if your talking about exp.. then your about 8 lvls off. By lvl 20, you can leech exp off your buddies doing cow runs.
As for being independent on norm cow, you can be a lvl 24 blizzer and fare quite well.
Immortality
30-12-2005, 18:36
ARgh, double post.
By lvl 20, you can leech exp off your buddies doing cow runs.
Actually, it starts at 18. (Tested this in a 1 player Norm Cow game with my LLD Level 18 Hammerdin.)
Also, once I get to Level 30, I'll normally rush myself to Hell CS and leech XP off runs until D. Then I'll leave and make the next game. :xmas23:
- Akukami
Immortality
30-12-2005, 19:53
Actually, it starts at 18. (Tested this in a 1 player Norm Cow game with my LLD Level 18 Hammerdin.)
Also, once I get to Level 30, I'll normally rush myself to Hell CS and leech XP off runs until D. Then I'll leave and make the next game. :xmas23:
- Akukami
Yes, your correct. Its been awhile :xmas17:
Exactly how did you come up with these numbers?
- Akukami
They were taken from Levels.txt, which was extracted from the mpq files. This is the same place that lists the expansion area levels.
If anyone wants to check it out, they can. ATMA comes with levels.txt in the config directory, just open it up in excel and check out the colums MonLvl1, MonLvl2 and MonLvl3, which correspond to the area's level in normal, nightmare and hell. The expansion area levels are right next to it, in MonLvl1Ex, MonLvl2Ex and MonLvl3Ex.
I *think* the one that comes with ATMA is 1.10, but nothings changed in 1.11 anyway. I did a quick compare between my notes and that in the 1.11 Levels.txt, and they're all the same.
I sat down again this morning, and compared my numbers again. All of them seem fine, though I did notice 2 mistakes that I had thought I fixed before posting, but obviously didn't. I can't edit my original post, but if Dacer92 could make the following changes it'd be appreciated:
Moo Moo Farm - 28/53/78
Sewers Level 3 - 14/39/64
I guess he should fix up my incorrectly spelt "Disused" while he's there too, with regards to the temples in Act 3 :rolleyes:
They were taken from Levels.txt, which was extracted from the mpq files. This is the same place that lists the expansion area levels.
I would think that is confirmation. Stickied in the Build guides and useful stuff thread.
I can't edit my original post, but if Dacer92 could make the following changes it'd be appreciated:
Moo Moo Farm - 28/53/78
Sewers Level 3 - 14/39/64
I guess he should fix up my incorrectly spelt "Disused" while he's there too, with regards to the temples in Act 3 :rolleyes:
Done :xmas10:
purplelocust
31-12-2005, 00:09
They were taken from Levels.txt, which was extracted from the mpq files. This is the same place that lists the expansion area levels.
If anyone wants to check it out, they can. ATMA comes with levels.txt in the config directory, just open it up in excel and check out the colums MonLvl1, MonLvl2 and MonLvl3, which correspond to the area's level in normal, nightmare and hell. The expansion area levels are right next to it, in MonLvl1Ex, MonLvl2Ex and MonLvl3Ex.
Looks great, well done and thanks for the explanation! It certainly is helpful and much more up to date than the Darkness monsters data, which gives monster levels instead of area levels.
hiroshimana
31-12-2005, 05:06
honestly lvl has nothin 2 do at that much in ladder, I get lvls up from 25+ in hell cs if u go to only 1 hell cs in lvl 25 youll get lvl 30 in that same cs so i have to disagree with you guys...
Immortality
31-12-2005, 16:26
honestly lvl has nothin 2 do at that much in ladder, I get lvls up from 25+ in hell cs if u go to only 1 hell cs in lvl 25 youll get lvl 30 in that same cs so i have to disagree with you guys...
Well, thats called rushing.
This is probably more based on single player and where you cannot skip anything.
purplelocust
01-01-2006, 16:40
Well, thats called rushing.
This is probably more based on single player and where you cannot skip anything.
Many players prefer to level up themselves instead of leeching off of others and knowing the area levels can give a good indication of where is a reasonable place to get decent experience for their own kills at a particular character level. For melee characters, monster level is particularly important as it is a prime determination of chance to hit, so it is very useful to know there as well.
Another thing to note is that area levels affect the item drops, so this makes me wonder about the claim- NM Andy can't drop an SoJ in Classic. NM Cat 4 is area level 37, and the ilvl of an SoJ is 39. So normal monsters in NM Cat 4 can't drop an SoJ. (In expansion, NM Cat 4 is area level 43, see the strategy compendium Facts and Formulae archive for LoD (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551), so in LoD NM Andy is apparently a great place to look for SoJs. ). But I thought that Champions and unique monsters got a +2 and +3 to ilvl, so that means that champions in Classic NM Cat 4 and Classic NM Andy would be high enough levels (39 and 40) to drop an SoJ. Am I missing something here?
By the way, NM Arcane is the first place that non-bosses and non-champions can drop an SoJ. Though a lot of rings drop in the Arcane from the wraiths there, I've never found an SoJ there.
Immortality
01-01-2006, 18:21
Many players prefer to level up themselves instead of leeching off of others and knowing the area levels can give a good indication of where is a reasonable place to get decent experience for their own kills at a particular character level. For melee characters, monster level is particularly important as it is a prime determination of chance to hit, so it is very useful to know there as well.
Another thing to note is that area levels affect the item drops, so this makes me wonder about the claim- NM Andy can't drop an SoJ in Classic. NM Cat 4 is area level 37, and the ilvl of an SoJ is 39. So normal monsters in NM Cat 4 can't drop an SoJ. (In expansion, NM Cat 4 is area level 43, see the strategy compendium Facts and Formulae archive for LoD (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551), so in LoD NM Andy is apparently a great place to look for SoJs. ). But I thought that Champions and unique monsters got a +2 and +3 to ilvl, so that means that champions in Classic NM Cat 4 and Classic NM Andy would be high enough levels (39 and 40) to drop an SoJ. Am I missing something here?
By the way, NM Arcane is the first place that non-bosses and non-champions can drop an SoJ. Though a lot of rings drop in the Arcane from the wraiths there, I've never found an SoJ there.
You cannot get a soj off nm andy.
Actually, it starts at 18. (Tested this in a 1 player Norm Cow game with my LLD Level 18 Hammerdin.)
Also, once I get to Level 30, I'll normally rush myself to Hell CS and leech XP off runs until D. Then I'll leave and make the next game.
- Akukami
Wait.. I refute my latter statement. I was correct after all. You cannot leech exp off your fellow players until you are lvl 20.
It can start for hammerdins at 18, but you won't be getting any exp from your buds.
Zodijackyl
02-01-2006, 19:03
Although these areas are helpful for leveling up to 80 or so, at higher levels only certain monsters help with XP. My main advice to leveling at 90+ is KILL UNIQUE/CHAMPION URDARS. I'll double my experience from one CS run by killing a pack of these off at level 91.
But I thought that Champions and unique monsters got a +2 and +3 to ilvl, so that means that champions in Classic NM Cat 4 and Classic NM Andy would be high enough levels (39 and 40) to drop an SoJ. Am I missing something here?
To my knowledge, champions and uniques do get +2 and +3 to their mlvl's. Also remember that Act Bosses have their own mlvl's, which are not determined by area levels.
The Act bosses mlvl, by difficulty are (Normal/Nightmare/Hell):
Andarial = 12/37/62
Duriel = 22/47/72
Mephisto = 26/51/76
Diablo = 40/65/90
Yes, Andarial cannot drop a SOJ on Nightmare, and yes Andarial's mlvl is coincidentally identical to catacombs level 4 area level.
Edit: Thanks goes to Go_Limyh for helping me seperate the expansion mlvl's from the classic ones.
purplelocust
03-01-2006, 16:18
To my knowledge, champions and uniques do get +2 and +3 to their mlvl's. Also remember that Act Bosses have their own mlvl's, which are not determined by area levels.
The Act bosses mlvl, by difficulty are (Normal/Nightmare/Hell):
Andarial = 12/37/62
Duriel = 22/47/72
Mephisto = 26/51/76
Diablo = 40/65/90
Yes, Andarial cannot drop a SOJ on Nightmare, and yes Andarial's mlvl is coincidentally identical to catacombs level 4 area level.
Edit: Thanks goes to Go_Limyh for helping me seperate the expansion mlvl's from the classic ones.
Great, thanks for the confirmation and explanation! I figured I had to be missing something about the 37 +2 or 3 not being at least 39 but I didn't realize that act bosses levels are hard-coded. Are there other monsters besides the act bosses whose level is not determined by the "area level + bonus" method?
It does seem weird that champions and uniques who might be right near NM Andy could drop SoJs when she can't. I wonder if Blizzard deliberately made sure that she couldn't drop an SoJ to keep the production of SoJ's down. If she could, I'm sure there would be an industry of LoD people making Classic characters to farm NM Andy for her SoJ drop potential, just like there is an industry of LoD people using the Hellforge drop for converted rushed characters to farm runes. As I've said before, I think it would be better for game balance to not allow conversion from Classic to LoD for ladder characters but it's clear this isn't a big concern to Blizzard.
Edit: Thanks goes to Go_Limyh for helping me seperate the expansion mlvl's from the classic ones.
Note that you used the monstats.txt found in D2Data.mpq, which is the 1.0 version (some newer CDs have up to 1.04 as standard D2C version). Should still be accurate, but just so you know.
The Act bosses mlvl, by difficulty are (Normal/Nightmare/Hell):
Andarial = 12/37/62
Duriel = 22/47/72
Mephisto = 26/51/76
Diablo = 40/65/90
How does this work? I am looking for Sigon stuff, so Sigon Glove/belt/boot is set level 9, but base items are level 27. So does this mean that any boss that can drop >27 can drop these? I have found these off norm Mephisto, so I am a bit confused...
Noitulover
20-03-2006, 02:15
How does this work? I am looking for Sigon stuff, so Sigon Glove/belt/boot is set level 9, but base items are level 27. So does this mean that any boss that can drop >27 can drop these? I have found these off norm Mephisto, so I am a bit confused...
i have no idea myself but i did get sig belt and gauntlets off meph yesterday
How does this work? I am looking for Sigon stuff, so Sigon Glove/belt/boot is set level 9, but base items are level 27. So does this mean that any boss that can drop >27 can drop these? I have found these off norm Mephisto, so I am a bit confused...
In order for a monster to be able to drop a certain unique or set, it must be able to drop both the base item and meet the qlvl of the set/unique.
Your right with regard to the qlvl of sigon's sets, which is 9. Since this is lower than Meph's mlvl, then Meph only needs to be able to drop from the TC that contains the base item in order to drop the relevant sigon part.
If I remember correctly, Sigon's Gloves are part of the armor27 TC, and Meph can drop from that TC. This is not to be confused with Meph's mlvl. The mlvl of a creature is not used to determine whether or not it can drop a specific base item - only it's TC is used to determine that. The creatures mlvl is used to determine the ilvl of the item (and subsequently the affixes available to it, if it's a magical or rare item), and whether the creature can drop certain uniques and sets.
OneFromBeyond
20-03-2006, 03:37
Stupid question, but then Pit runs aren't done in Classic (because of the low levels)?
*OneFromBeyond - looking for easy ways to shoot into the 70s
Stupid question, but then Pit runs aren't done in Classic (because of the low levels)?
Most likely not (though I can't really say what people do). The whole "level 85 area" thing was only added to the expansion, and as such there really is no advantage to doing an area like the Pit in classic, when compared to areas like the City of the Damned, Flame River, or Chaos Sanctuary.
purplelocust
20-03-2006, 04:12
Most likely not (though I can't really say what people do). Indeed- I think the point of running the level 85 areas in LOD is to find the elite items, which can't drop anywhere else. In Classic, there are no elites so there isn't much difference, I would think, in terms of the number of exceptionals that drop in a level 70 area versus a level 75 area, although of course this depends upon the particular monsters there. But more significantly, there aren't a great many high level affixes to get in Classic, I think. Consulting Orphan's excellent post in this thread http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=435372 about Classic affixes, the ones that you want that are very high level are "of the Mammoth" at 68, "of the Titan" at 58, and the enhanced damage and defence ones that are much lower alvls. The only alvls I see that are 70 or above are alvl=90 for +2 amulets (gamble or Hell Diablo only, of course) and +3-5 life replenishment on armor at alvl=70. Whereas in LOD, there are many more affixes higher than alvl=70 (and people don't really care about rares as much, anyway, I think), so there is a bigger difference there between affixes found on items dropped in a level 70 area versus a level 85 area.
Maybe I am missing something, but it seems to me that in LOD the emphasis on elites pushes item-hunting into the really high level areas, but in Classic, that doesn't need to happen.
Sigon's Gloves are part of the armor27 TC, and Meph can drop from that TC. This is not to be confused with Meph's mlvl. The mlvl of a creature is not used to determine whether or not it can drop a specific base item - only it's TC is used to determine that. The creatures mlvl is used to determine the ilvl of the item (and subsequently the affixes available to it, if it's a magical or rare item), and whether the creature can drop certain uniques and sets.
Thanks for the clarification. I take it then that the area level lists and boss level list is good for the ability to get affixes, but not really for sets/uniques then. I have all the TC information for LoD, but is there a list anywhere of what TC that say, Andy/Duriel/Mephy/Diablo drop, along with maybe some of the more common SuperUniques such as Travincal Guys/Mephy's support guys/Diablo seal guys/Cow King?
purplelocust, while it's true that alot of people run the pit for high level items, there's still some that run it for the experience points. Being level 85 monsters, the creatures in there have quite abit of experience points, yet are somewhat easier than those found in areas like Flame River, or Worldstone Keep.
Also, don't forget that in alot of cases the ilvl does not equal alvl. The alvl of an item is determined by it's ilvl and it's qlvl. Rings and amulets have a qlvl of 1, so it's safe to say that the ilvl does indeed equal the alvl for those two scenarios, but for weapons and armor this would not be the case.
For example, in order for an Ornate armor to get the "of the Giant", it must have an ilvl of 77. This would mean that you can only find this armor from the City of the Damned, Flame River or Chaos Sanctuary (or one of the lesser areas, but from a boss). Likewise, in terms of Act bosses only Hell Diablo could drop such an armor.
Ricker, alot of uniques have a higher qlvl than base item. For example, the Goblin Toe has a qlvl of 30, but it's base item (Light Plated Boots) are in TC armor21. This TC is easily within the range of normal Meph, but his mlvl is is not high enough for the qlvl of the unique. In this case, knowing the mlvl of the boss/area level would be useful in determining whether or not an item can be dropped.
As for the classic TC list, I don't think there is one around. I'll do abit of hunting around to see what I can find, otherwise I might sit down and compile one sometime.
fredsta54
20-03-2006, 19:30
purplelocust, while it's true that alot of people run the pit for high level items, there's still some that run it for the experience points. Being level 85 monsters, the creatures in there have quite abit of experience points, yet are somewhat easier than those found in areas like Flame River, or Worldstone Keep.
Also, don't forget that in alot of cases the ilvl does not equal alvl. The alvl of an item is determined by it's ilvl and it's qlvl. Rings and amulets have a qlvl of 1, so it's safe to say that the ilvl does indeed equal the alvl for those two scenarios, but for weapons and armor this would not be the case.
For example, in order for an Ornate armor to get the "of the Giant", it must have an ilvl of 77. This would mean that you can only find this armor from the City of the Damned, Flame River or Chaos Sanctuary (or one of the lesser areas, but from a boss). Likewise, in terms of Act bosses only Hell Diablo could drop such an armor.
Ricker, alot of uniques have a higher qlvl than base item. For example, the Goblin Toe has a qlvl of 30, but it's base item (Light Plated Boots) are in TC armor21. This TC is easily within the range of normal Meph, but his mlvl is is not high enough for the qlvl of the unique. In this case, knowing the mlvl of the boss/area level would be useful in determining whether or not an item can be dropped.
As for the classic TC list, I don't think there is one around. I'll do abit of hunting around to see what I can find, otherwise I might sit down and compile one sometime.
Yes, a full game pit clear in xpac is an easy way to get into the lower 90's! =/ ive done it on a werewolf. I love xpac but only to play druids and assasins. If i wanna play the original 5 ill stick to classic :)
Flayer can get monster levels of up to... 78? when its a unique monster. Getting to the mid 80's in classic can be easily achieved just from flayer/river/trav/meph etc. which in single player on builds that cannot quickly complete cs is the next best thing ^^
Fred
Flayer can get monster levels of up to... 78? when its a unique monster. Getting to the mid 80's in classic can be easily achieved just from flayer/river/trav/meph etc. which in single player on builds that cannot quickly complete cs is the next best thing ^^
If by "flayer" you mean act 3, then durance can get monsters up to mlvl 78 yes. But if by "flayer" you mean the flayer jungle then the highest mlvl you'll probably find there will be 75 (unique monster = mlvl +3 mlvl = 72+3).
That said, I do agree that it would be a nice place for experience. I remember back on expansion where I used to run flayers with a wind druid because of the huge drop count. On more than one occassion I had to sit and syphon though the drops simply because pressing 'Alt' didn't display everything on the screen. Although I didn't do it for the experience, I managed to go from 82 to 89 without even noticing it.
In classic, I imagine it would be the same boat. The main advantage of flayers is the huge monster count. Still, you would need to compare it to Hell Cows, which would have quite a fair amount of monsters in itself.
fredsta54
21-03-2006, 02:17
Yes thats what i mean. FLayer jungle in act 3. If you can kill an 8 player game full screen of monsters in 1 ww (yep ez to do with even a bsnap) then flayering is awesome~ :d
My friend has a level 88 sorc thats not even in act 4 O.o She gets her levels from raiding full player games and killing hell meph... goodies drop, and her xp is fun. It also gives her the mephy bug
Fred
purplelocust
21-03-2006, 02:56
Also, don't forget that in alot of cases the ilvl does not equal alvl. The alvl of an item is determined by it's ilvl and it's qlvl. Rings and amulets have a qlvl of 1, so it's safe to say that the ilvl does indeed equal the alvl for those two scenarios, but for weapons and armor this would not be the case.
For example, in order for an Ornate armor to get the "of the Giant", it must have an ilvl of 77. This would mean that you can only find this armor from the City of the Damned, Flame River or Chaos Sanctuary (or one of the lesser areas, but from a boss). Likewise, in terms of Act bosses only Hell Diablo could drop such an armor.
Thanks for the explanation- I didn't realize that the higher qlvl items were harder to get the higher affixes on. I re-read the item generation tutorial and it makes much more sense now. The relevant bit is the code: {
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
}
which means that higher qlvl items get lower level affixes, if everything else is the same. That explains why I find more +2 prismatic bone shields than +2 prismatic grim shields, for example, and I'd been wondering if I was just unlucky on that front.
Pimp By Blood
27-07-2006, 23:12
Although these areas are helpful for leveling up to 80 or so, at higher levels only certain monsters help with XP. My main advice to leveling at 90+ is KILL UNIQUE/CHAMPION URDARS. I'll double my experience from one CS run by killing a pack of these off at level 91.
unique urdars and their minions give really cool exp, and i can confirm the doubling of exp as up to lvl 92. champion urdars dont give nice exp at 92 anymore. from 93 unique urdar exp suxx too.
The mlvl of a creature is not used to determine whether or not it can drop a specific base item - only it's TC is used to determine that.
What does TC stand for?
You people are positive Andy can't drop a SoJ on NM? I heard if in a game a Manald ring and a Nagel ring have dropped, the next unique ring to drop would always be a SoJ. Is this true? If it is, then would it be possible for NM Andy to drop one, or would she still not be able to?
Zodijackyl
10-06-2007, 07:21
What does TC stand for?
You people are positive Andy can't drop a SoJ on NM? I heard if in a game a Manald ring and a Nagel ring have dropped, the next unique ring to drop would always be a SoJ. Is this true? If it is, then would it be possible for NM Andy to drop one, or would she still not be able to?
TC = Treasure Class
If a Manald and Nagel drop, the next unique ring to drop will be an SOJ, but the odds of a unique ring drop being an SOJ are 1/31, and if it does roll a unique ring drop after a manald and nagel drop, unless it rolls the 1/31 chance of being an SOJ it will just drop a rare ring.
Does this Include the secret cowlevel?
Zodijackyl
10-06-2007, 07:28
Does this Include the secret cowlevel?
The way a drop > Unique Ring > SOJ rolls is universal if that's what you were asking.
The way a drop > Unique Ring > SOJ rolls is universal if that's what you were asking.
I was asking if the secret cow level includes to the game, so act1, act2, act3, act4 + cows. So if I found a manald and nagel in an early game, anywhere (including the cow level). Would it be reasonable to clear the entire game? (I am talking about NM mode)
Zodijackyl
10-06-2007, 08:00
I was asking if the secret cow level includes to the game, so act1, act2, act3, act4 + cows. So if I found a manald and nagel in an early game, anywhere (including the cow level). Would it be reasonable to clear the entire game? (I am talking about NM mode)
It is never worth clearing the entire game, the overall odds of finding an SOJ never change, because it is still only a 1/31 chance if the drop category rolled was a unique ring. You just know that if three unique rings drop in one game, one of them will be each unique ring.
But of course the cow level is included in the game.
Yea, I figured the chances are still relatively low. I just wanted a 2nd opinion. Thank you :)
Yea, I figured the chances are still relatively low. I just wanted a 2nd opinion. Thank you :)
Still? Maybe u misunderstood Zodi. He tried to point out that in this patch, there is no point to clean the whole game. (If your sole reason for cleaning is the searching of the fabled soj) Odds of finding Soj won't change even if u do find Nagel and manald in the same game. Its always 1/31. U will just end up with rare rings.
Furthermore, Andy in nm does not drop soj, but the unique monsters in Andy's chamber can drop it since their MC is high enough.
-Lorg
I read it wrong the first time. Replied too fast and forgot to added it. But thanks anyway.
add* Why won't it let me add my posts? It's very annoying!
WarlockCC
12-06-2007, 10:57
You can edit them in the first hour after you made the post.
forum Pals can edit them for longer iirc.
ok so in normal at level 30 where is the best to place to level, sorry Im having a hard time understanding this for some reason, can you elaborate?
WarlockCC
13-06-2007, 11:37
At level 30 you can level in CS, cows or move on to nm act 1
TraderScope
06-08-2008, 13:56
I'm still confused with how the chance for bosses to drop items with certain affixes are calculated..
ie. Hell Mephisto has a monster level of (mlvl?) = 76.
The King's Mod has an level of 56, the executioner's Sword has a qlvl of 54(?), so basically Meph should be able to drop Executioners Sword with the King's Mod?
HegemonKhan
06-08-2008, 20:08
here i'll show u why creon and lorg say hell meph can NOT drop kings mod (ON CERTAIN ITEM TYPES?) (but other item types he can?) and they seem to be right based on the post creon gave showing it:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
creon's post:
Some quick info as you guys are discussing ilvl and mods. I scanned the thread and didn't read everything, but you should ignore everything except the item level the monster drops and the "Quality Level" of the item as listed at the Arreat Summit. Use the code someone posted before:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
Affix levels can also be found at the Arreat Summit under prefixes and suffixes. As an example, we will take a rare Martel de Fer dropped from Andariel, Mephisto, and Travincal Council.
Andariel drops ilvl 62 items. 62 < (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = 62-(53/2) = 38. Looking through the lists at Arreat Summit, some popular mods you will never roll on this Martel include Lord's (prefix), King's (pre), Berserker (pre), Giant (suffix), Titan (suf), and Performance (suf, +9-14 min).
Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53. You will still never see Kings (56) or Titan (58, assuming Martels are considered a "Hammer" and not just a "Mace").
Council drops ilvl 78. 78 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*78)-99 = 57. The only significant mod you can miss at this point is Titan.
The general rule is that ilvl 78 is the minimum required for Kings on high-end weapons. This is the reason I MF/GF Council instead of glitching Meph (along with my gambling addiction and ~350k gold per run). This also means you want to imbue at level 74+. I tend to imbue battle hammers at level 75 to open up the Titan mod availability. For clarification, the ilvl of a gamble is clvl+4. At level 75, it's ilvl 79 and rolls from alvl = (2*79)-99 = 59, enough for Titan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
taking a look at this from creon's post and using the formula he gives:
1. Some quick info as you guys are discussing ilvl and mods. I scanned the thread and didn't read everything,
but you should ignore everything except the item level the monster drops and the "Quality Level" of the item as listed at the Arreat Summit.
2. Affix levels can also be found at the Arreat Summit under prefixes and suffixes. As an example, we will take a rare Martel de Fer dropped from Andariel, Mephisto, and Travincal Council.
Use the code someone posted before (cut and pasted from the end of #1) :
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
3. Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53. You will still never see Kings (56) or Titan (58, assuming Martels are considered a "Hammer" and not just a "Mace").
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. the item type (mart, exe, bh, naga, grim sycthe, balista, gothic bow, etc) (i presume, ask creon as i not sure if this is correct) determines what qlvl (quaility level) it is. so the above seems to be jsut for marts. so maybe hell meph jsut can't spawn the kings mod on marts but he might be able to spawn the kings mod on exe's ?
5. i don't understand this that well so #4 could be wrong.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
we need creon's help as i don't know if i understood/understand this.
TraderScope
06-08-2008, 21:02
Thanks Hedge, this cleared up it all for me! I should've remembered this formulae from Area Summit but I thought it involved other things like crafting, in Exp-pack!
About the Qlvl's of different items I got one nifty program for it, called: LODEncyclopedia, try to
find it yourself or I can give it you via MSN if you PM me..
This is a seperate program from Diablo2, doesn't reguire one to be installed in the first place, only containing valuable information on various things that involve Diablo2 the game (similar to ATMA).
HegemonKhan
06-08-2008, 21:25
ach, i'm looking at creon's post and i think he messed up:
creon put:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
3. Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53. You will still never see Kings (56) or Titan (58, assuming Martels are considered a "Hammer" and not just a "Mace").
----------------------------------------
creon used the wrong formula:
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
creon was suppose to use the formula:
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
so what it should be is this:
Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73.
the above line is true, so.... (see below)
Thus, alvl=alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2
Thus, alvl= 76-53/2
Thus, alvl=76-26.5
Thus, alvl=49.5
this still means hell meph can NOT spawn kings (at least, on a mart)
so it shoulda read this:
Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73.
Thus, alvl = 76-53/2 = 49.5
You will still never see Kings (56) or Titan (58, assuming Martels are considered a "Hammer" and not just a "Mace").
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR, IGNORE EVERYTHING ABOVE THIS, IN THIS POST OF MINE!!!!!!
creon did everything right!!!!!!
the ONLY mistake he made was a typo in this:
3. Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53. You will still never see Kings (56) or Titan (58, assuming Martels are considered a "Hammer" and not just a "Mace"
this:
Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73
should read:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
< (NOT > as creon put down)
Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 < (99-(53/2))=73
his entire equations ARE right, despite his tiny typo, which i caught and it made me do all that work for nothing cuz i thought he used the wrong formula when he used the right one but he jsut made a small typo of putting > in stead of < in this part of his steps for the equations: Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73 when it suppose to be Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 < (99-(53/2))=73
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, all that work for nothing....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
TraderScope
06-08-2008, 21:41
Hedge, Creon used the right formulae mate, he just put the "mathematical part" different there :P
This is still all true:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
3. Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53.
HegemonKhan
06-08-2008, 21:49
Hedge, Creon used the right formulae mate, he just put the "mathematical part" different there :P
This is still all true:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
3. Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53.
#3. has the tiny typo of > when it should be < *if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))*
this small typo that i caught caused me to think that he was suppose to use:
then {alvl=ilvl-qlvl/2}
instead of what he did use:
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
but he was right to use:
else {alvl=2*ilvl-99}
since he only typo'ed this:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
as:
if (ilvl>(99-qlvl/2))
which was a mess up on his part which in turn messed me up, grrr!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ach, nooooooooooooooooooo
i looked at it again and as he posted it, he HAD it right....
i just for some reason got confused.....too much math (LOL)....it's messing up my ability to read now!!!
creon posted it perfectly....i'm jsut really messed up..from trying to do all this math and calculations and equations and formulas!!!
laughs
ps,
sorry creon (especially), and traderscope. i was the confused one!!! creon had it posted perfectly and traderscope was trying to point that out to me.
my bad.
i need to stay off this math stuff...its really messing me up..effecting my reading and comprehensions skills now!!!
TraderScope
06-08-2008, 22:02
hehe, well this turns to a bit offtopic, but if the mods may I will reply once again ^^
since he only typo'ed this:
if (ilvl<(99-qlvl/2))
as:
if (ilvl>(99-qlvl/2))
I think that's not a typo, he was already making the "mathematical part" or calculating there and he didn't use "if" operator in that context btw:
Mephisto drops ilvl 76. 76 > (99-(53/2))=73. Thus, alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53. You will still never see Kings (56) or Titan (58, assuming Martels are considered a "Hammer" and not just a "Mace").
With ">" he meant that the number 76 is higher than 99-(53/2)), which is 73.
So 76 > 73, thus alvl = (2*76)-99 = 53.
HegemonKhan
06-08-2008, 22:06
ya, i finally get it now, and...
ya we going a bit on and on (off-topic), but i thought my idiocy would be funny for u guys to read:D
*if u do something stupid (like me jsut now messing up with creon's post), u might as well laugh it up, as its all u can do!
but if its just wasted posting, warlock can remove:D
TraderScope
06-08-2008, 22:17
haha, I laughed but not with bad intentions, I just happen to know how even professors (or exspecially them) tend to make these type of mistakes almost every day, but usually correcting them ofc.
Orphan's signature says it better really:
95% of the time I'm right, so why worry about the other 2%?
:)
EDIT:
I would like to know the mlvl's of the councils in Travincal (is that 74+3=77? Since champions seem to get +2 and unique-monsters +3 to their mlvl's), this would also mean that they would not be able to drop items with the King's mod (that is if the mlvls for the councils are not fixed also, like act bosses), since the min. ilvl should be 78..
in this light then, Creon's Theorem would be incorrect:
The general rule is that ilvl 78 is the minimum required for Kings on high-end weapons. This is the reason I MF/GF Council instead of glitching Meph (along with my gambling addiction and ~350k gold per run).
Also I would like to ask from Orphan,
from where is he looking at the mlvl's of act bosses and could you please look if there are Travi councils listed there also, and Meph's councils also (this would mean they are treated like bosses for mlvls)? I already found the file Levels.txt from Atma directories but don't seem to find the mlvl's of the bosses.
TraderScope
06-08-2008, 23:25
But then again, you could get items with the King's Mod from the council's near Mephisto (75+3=78)..just not Travi ( I actually don't know which Creon meant). At least I always thought these "councils" in Travi are the councils people talk about, but if people mean the councils near Meph, then they are right about them being able to drop uber godly Martels and for example Execs..This would also make Travincal less attractive as a MF-place, since it's area level is only 74 and the unique monsters there are lvl 77, -1 from what is reguired for the King's Mod, using that formulae above..
HegemonKhan
07-08-2008, 00:16
i asked which or both council he (creon) ment in one of my posts,
and he (creon) answered in a responding post: both of them, in trav and doh3 (meph area)
just a tiny comment:
for both councils (trav and doh3): there are normal (white color named monsters) council members and the super uniques (gold or bonze color named monsters) (named monsters that are in every game and location=super uniques) council members
so i think we are both right, in taking creon's quote saying councils (both areas he answered) are ilvl 78, and assuming that the super unique council members (geleb, dragonhand, etc) would be the ilvl 78 's (able to spawn kings mod) and the normal council members would be ilvl 75 (not able to spawn kings mod).
i think the council monsters are probably hard coded...cuz they are a very "unique" monster type that is found no where else.
otherwise, maybe the trav special (super unique) council members might be ilvl 78 and the ones in doh3 might be even higher cuz of the area they are in?
no idea, jsut speculating (and listing) possible things
TraderScope
07-08-2008, 01:16
I got an answer from a relatively trusted person in some other forum and he said that some haxor once used a hack to get all the Mlvl's of monsters and he has showed that the councils in at least Travincal are indeed mlvl of lvl 75 (75+3=78 for King's!) although they show as mlvl of 74 in the game's data-files..it is not known what has went wrong, and why the games mechanics are like this but many people seem to have found King's Mod Execs and Martels from the Travincal councils..
75-74 = 1 the famous n-1?:)
The council members and minions are indeed mlvl 78. This is because in the text files the base mlvl is 75. Classic, unlike Exp, doesn't result in monsters having an mlvl equal to the area level. The area level is used more-so for chests and racks. Items dropped from stashes in Trav would have an ilvl of 74, for example.
Edit: I thought I'd elaborate abit more.
I ran some tests awhile ago that indicated that the mlvl of creatures in classic kept their own hardcoded mlvl, rather than the area levels. I started these tests because someone one here mentioned that might have been the case (I apologise because I cannot remember the name). That said, the mlvl's of classic monsters don't completely match Arreat Summit so another source will probably be required. I'm looking towards the D2 wiki to update them if it doesn't already.
fledgeling
07-08-2008, 14:56
uh, couldnt someone just take out the mlevel list from the mpq files? I thought it was just a long text file after a decompilation
TraderScope
07-08-2008, 15:11
That said, the mlvl's of classic monsters don't completely match Arreat Summit so another source will probably be required. I'm looking towards the D2 wiki to update them if it doesn't already.
I am looking forward to this, it would be of great help, thanks!
uh, couldnt someone just take out the mlevel list from the mpq files? I thought it was just a long text file after a decompilation
I was more-so thinking of everything, not just mlvl for the monsters. So things like HP, TC, damage, etc. The wiki at the moment doesn't contain very much information on classic (in terms of monster stats).
I think the Darkness page that used to be linked to dii.net had the classic monster levels. Tried to get there from web archive but with bad results :)
Cs in a4 hell does seem to be level 80 instead of 78 :whistling:
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