Ideal combination when Doom is necessary

[Imbecile]

I have been screwing around trying to find the ideal combination of my weapons when I fight certain enemies where doom is necessary for me to use. Against opponents that doesn't need to be slowed I use the ideal combination of Grief Ba + Beast Ba, but against javas I have tried with
Doom + Beast, and Grief + Doom, but IMO I think that Doom + Beast is better than Grief + Doom, maybe I am mistaken. Since I still keep strength bonus from Beast I can equip CoA BerBer, which is a must against certain matchups, my friend prefers Grief Ba + Doom Ba over Doom Ba + Beast Ba, whereas I am in favor of the last. I am still a major fanboy of Grief Ba, which I think is the most excellent runeword, but against some smiters the extra AR and Ow, is extremely valueable, when using Doom Ba + Beast Ba.

Now I just wondering about the math, what is in reality the best combination, since I try as much as I can to avoid using doom, since I rather will make 6.6k ww with Grief + Beast, than mere 5k/ 5k doom ba + Beast ba.

MATH PLX, I want to know the best setup of weapons when you have to use doom T_T

[mastermind]

hey i usally use doom + beast if i have to use doom cuz the beast helps with the ar and adds a little dmg to the weapon in ur main hand which will help plus also thing like the ow and crushing blow

[Imbecile]

hey i usally use doom + beast if i have to use doom cuz the beast helps with the ar and adds a little dmg to the weapon in ur main hand which will help plus also thing like the ow and crushing blow

I wrote the same thing in my post, I need math not opinions, which setup is best, in reality.

[Ce Olba]

I wrote the same thing in my post, I need math not opinions, which setup is best, in reality.

Even thou i cannot give u the "MATH PLX" i'll tell u, i think that Beast+Doom is better, as u have 60% ow on beast, which will be your mainhand weapon, and as OW is capable of dealing about 500-600 dmg over 8 seconds. But then again, with grief u should have about 75% actual dmg increase because of huge DS. It's a tought matchup. Anyone PM Hal here?

// After checking Hal's DMG COMPARISON from the STICKIES THREAD, i came to the conclusion, that Grief seems to do more dmg than Beast, even tho i'm not totally sure, but i still think Grief does more.

But as u probably know, it's all up to WHO u duel. If u duel someone with huge defense, block, and dr, u want Open wounds, as it deals dmg over time. But if u duel someone with no or minimal blocking, minimal to no dr, small defense, u want grief for fast kill.

Personally i always use Grief, just in case someone decides to jump me.

[Imbecile]

Even thou i cannot give u the "MATH PLX" i'll tell u, i think that Beast+Doom is better, as u have 60% ow on beast, which will be your mainhand weapon, and as OW is capable of dealing about 500-600 dmg over 8 seconds. But then again, with grief u should have about 75% actual dmg increase because of huge DS. It's a tought matchup. Anyone PM Hal here?

I can only agree with your arguments, being lvl 92 really helps making nice OW duration, and prebuffing with venom from grief, each hit can really lower their life. Often resulting in "OMG BARB HAS 37 x 290", when I only have venom from grief ^^.

But yeah I would really like to hear the opinion from Hal, RTB or any other competent barb player, even you Morotsjos :P

[Ce Olba]

I can only agree with your arguments, being lvl 92 really helps making nice OW duration, and prebuffing with venom from grief, each hit can really lower their life. Often resulting in "OMG BARB HAS 37 x 290", when I only have venom from grief ^^.

This gave me a reason to smile, once again. This has happened to me. People usually complain about how I'm a "poison-using noob" because of venom from grief. Some people even cry when i prebuff with Treachery to get Fade (very rare thou).

But yeah I would really like to hear the opinion from Hal, RTB or any other competent barb player, even you Morotsjos :P

ME TOO, ME TOO. This is really something that i've been wondering, but it's not such a huge issue to me, as i don't have all that godly gear like coa berber, but yes, i do have grief, beast, doom, eni :p And yes, i do play BvC. Among my D2 friends some of them usually dislike me, as i love to prove how something like a sorc or poison charms or venom or poison nova is totally useless after some prepairing. With math of course.

[mastermind]

yeah that a better definition as stated by Ce Olba it does matter on the char ur dueling, i.e a person with max block or max dr and good life, an ow approach would be better, i.e against a smiter or something.

But against say a cs zon or even a bow ama a high dmg approach may be the best (Grief + Doom) as these types of amas can tank alot of dmg and high amounts of dodge, so a high dmg approach would be good.

im not too good on the math part but judgeing on ur lvl at 90+ OW is good anyway.

Also from my experience i have alot of psn charms i carry which i need to remove, i.e a 290 which i keep and a charm with 175 psn so that kinda replaces the need for the venom on the grief.

[Imbecile]

yeah that a better definition as stated by Ce Olba it does matter on the char ur dueling, i.e a person with max block or max dr and good life, an ow approach would be better, i.e against a smiter or something.

But against say a cs zon or even a bow ama a high dmg approach may be the best (Grief + Doom) as these types of amas can tank alot of dmg and high amounts of dodge, so a high dmg approach would be good.

im not too good on the math part but judgeing on ur lvl at 90+ OW is good anyway.

Also from my experience i have alot of psn charms i carry which i need to remove, i.e a 290 which i keep and a charm with 175 psn so that kinda replaces the need for the venom on the grief.

How can you compare poison charms damage with venoms damage? Honestly do you have a clue about what you write? By the way where do you duel bowzons who tank?

[mastermind]

How can you compare poison charms damage with venoms damage? Honestly do you have a clue about what you write? By the way where do you duel bowzons who tank?

well if u did know what u were talking about u would know that most amazons especially the CS or should i spell it out for u the CRITICAL STRIKE ZONS and BOW AMAZONS can do some tanking i.e 50 - 60% dodge.

hmm u are rite cuz venom acts alot faster than psn on scs as it delivers lot more dmg in a short space of time and due to the fact the grief has -res plus the -100% poison length reduction penalty which would possibly double the dmg as it will increase the length of 4 secs to 8 secs which i did not calculate properly. My bad :xmas17:

But still there is no need to be so obnoixous dude, im just trying to offer some help. I may not know everything but i can teach u guys a few things or 2 in dueling and possibly how to use ur characters.

[Imbecile]

well if u did know what u were talking about u would know that most amazons especially the CS or should i spell it out for u the CRITICAL STRIKE ZONS and BOW AMAZONS can do some tanking i.e 50 - 60% dodge.

hmm u are rite cuz venom acts alot faster than psn on scs as it delivers lot more dmg in a short space of time and due to the fact the grief has -res plus the -100% poison length reduction penalty which would possibly double the dmg as it will increase the length of 4 secs to 8 secs which i did not calculate properly. My bad :xmas17:

But still there is no need to be so obnoixous dude, im just trying to offer some help. I may not know everything but i can teach u guys a few things or 2 in dueling and possibly how to use ur characters.

Be my guest meet me on Europe and teach me................... And no bowazons don't tank.

[mastermind]

Be my guest meet me on Europe and teach me................... And no bowazons don't tank.

I would but one slight problem i have no amazons. I talking from what i have seen in dueling and yes i am Europe NL and Ladder.

But still the point is ur rude dude u don't talk to people like that, especially if they are try to attempt to help u.

acc is Halo273 if u still want to bring something up with me

message me if im online

[Imbecile]

I would but one slight problem i have no amazons. I talking from what i have seen in dueling and yes i am Europe NL and Ladder.

But still the point is ur rude dude u don't talk to people like that, especially if they are try to attempt to help u.

acc is Halo273 if u still want to bring something up with me

message me if im online

You give me advice? Did I ask about getting advice, I asked if anyone knew which statisticly damaged most of the above mentioned setups, so don't start crying of me being rude, when you just post already mentioned information.

By the way you weren't online so I couldn't contact you. And your postcount has nothing do do with knowledge of the game.... Spammer

[mastermind]

sry double post

[mastermind]

i would reply but i dont have the breath to argue with ppl today

anyways im online

[Imbecile]

well if u did know what u were talking about u would know that most amazons especially the CS or should i spell it out for u the CRITICAL STRIKE ZONS and BOW AMAZONS can do some tanking i.e 50 - 60% dodge.

hmm u are rite cuz venom acts alot faster than psn on scs as it delivers lot more dmg in a short space of time and due to the fact the grief has -res plus the -100% poison length reduction penalty which would possibly double the dmg as it will increase the length of 4 secs to 8 secs which i did not calculate properly. My bad :xmas17:

But still there is no need to be so obnoixous dude, im just trying to offer some help. I may not know everything but i can teach u guys a few things or 2 in dueling and possibly how to use ur characters.

What do you mean by a critical strike zon? I only know Charged strike.....

[mastermind]

What do you mean by a critical strike zon? I only know Charged strike.....

typo sry i meant charged strike :)

edit..

sry about that i had a huge lagg my computer froze up, im running the game on my slow computer

[Summerfun]

I really dont understand how you can be so arrogant an at the
same time so ignorant (Luder)

Reading through your posts, it seems like you allredy have the answer to anything! So why even post here, when all you do is critizice??

What kinda math did you expect to see here anyway??
Were you hoping to see some kinda equation, showing you
when to use beast and when to use greif??

Its pretty simple, if you have enough AR, use greif for superior damage!
If you lack AR feel free to use Beast.

If you have decent gear you should easy get 16-17k ar with Doom Greif,
and as we all know AR suffers from diminishing returns, therefor I would
allways use greif over beast. (and yes, i dont think OW is important in anything else than BvB)

Im pretty sure that i have one of the best barbs on Europe
called "Exziter"

If you like, Whisper me on Europe NL. *SummerFun

[Summerfun]

Sorry for double post!

Just occured to me that saying
"im pretty sure i have one of the best barbs on europ"
might sound arrogant.

Take this as an invitation to prove me wrong. :xmas17:

[mastermind]

Exziter hmm i think i heard of a barb by that name on Europe NL hmm BvC?

[Imbecile]

I really dont understand how you can be so arrogant an at the
same time so ignorant (Luder)

Reading through your posts, it seems like you allredy have the answer to anything! So why even post here, when all you do is critizice??

What kinda math did you expect to see here anyway??
Were you hoping to see some kinda equation, showing you
when to use beast and when to use greif??

Its pretty simple, if you have enough AR, use greif for superior damage!
If you lack AR feel free to use Beast.

If you have decent gear you should easy get 16-17k ar with Doom Greif,
and as we all know AR suffers from diminishing returns, therefor I would
allways use greif over beast. (and yes, i dont think OW is important in anything else than BvB)

Im pretty sure that i have one of the best barbs on Europe
called "Exziter"

If you like, Whisper me on Europe NL. *SummerFun

Sounds like a challenge, yes I have seen Exziter, Im glad you think your the best on europe realm, that sounds intelligent. I don't know if you have noticed but guys like Rikstaker have made several calculations to find out the ideal setup, doom not included. I am interested in knowing which setup that's most effective accompanied with doom, when you consider the math, I asked the question because I am interested in having the best performance against several classes, not opinions.....

Btw. will you be online tomorrow ?

[morotsjos]

I really dont understand how you can be so arrogant an at the
same time so ignorant (Luder)

Reading through your posts, it seems like you allredy have the answer to anything! So why even post here, when all you do is critizice??

What kinda math did you expect to see here anyway??
Were you hoping to see some kinda equation, showing you
when to use beast and when to use greif??

Its pretty simple, if you have enough AR, use greif for superior damage!
If you lack AR feel free to use Beast.

If you have decent gear you should easy get 16-17k ar with Doom Greif,
and as we all know AR suffers from diminishing returns, therefor I would
allways use greif over beast. (and yes, i dont think OW is important in anything else than BvB)

Im pretty sure that i have one of the best barbs on Europe
called "Exziter"

If you like, Whisper me on Europe NL. *SummerFun
What does your opinion has to do with anything?
Statements like "best barb in realm" sound pretty pathetic when uttered by someone who thinks open wounds is unimportant outside of bvb.
You are utterly ignorant if you think you stand any chance at all vs blizz/orbsorcs with 9x%es/maxblock/30-50%dr without open wounds.
Anyone who have dueled with a barb for more than a few weeks understands how important open wounds is in 90% of all duels. It's very basic.

Personally I dont get why "math" is so hard to understand. Last time I checked "math" did not equal "opinions".

Luder: see pm.

[Summerfun]

Maybe i diddent make myself clear! i dont think OW issent important.
Just in any duel where you would use Doom i dont see the use for OW.
asuming that you only use doom vs smiters and amazons.
who would use doom vs a blizz sorc anyway?

And yes, i have dueld many 9x es cold sorcs, and actualy never died to one of those yet! Just call me lame but with 2 ravens and 4xx stacked cold res
its pretty impossible to die. Further more, you could allways just drink some thawning pots for 100 momre stacked res and 85 cold res.

I NEVER sayd i were the best barb! i sayd one of the best....
So its up to you how you define "one of the best"
What meant were that im yet to loose to another barb more than
50% of the times. And im doing fine in most public games,
even when im VS. 2 or 3 or 5 or 6. Sure i loose some times,
but what did you expect??

Back to the math! i have no problems what so ever understanding the math.
I just have a hard time seeing how you could use math to find out when to use greif or beast...
For one to do the math it requires you know the ar of the attacker;
def, block, dr, life of the victim.
All beeing things we dont know and will never know!
Thats why i sayd you cant solve this question with pure math!
Its a question of estimations, and trying different setups!

But hey, im looking forward to seeing you doing the math!

SummerFun

[mastermind]

hmm chill guys we all know are barbs are pretty tough in the duel arena :xmas9:

but anyway, against es sorcs u do need some kinda ow as from wat i have seen these sorc absorb huge amounts of dmg and still have max dr. although the venom from grief does help alot as well as psn and ow is the only thing that can get past Energy shield and attack the life dirrectly.

[morotsjos]

Maybe i diddent make myself clear! i dont think OW issent important.
Just in any duel where you would use Doom i dont see the use for OW.
asuming that you only use doom vs smiters and amazons.
who would use doom vs a blizz sorc anyway?

And yes, i have dueld many 9x es cold sorcs, and actualy never died to one of those yet! Just call me lame but with 2 ravens and 4xx stacked cold res
its pretty impossible to die. Further more, you could allways just drink some thawning pots for 100 momre stacked res and 85 cold res.

I NEVER sayd i were the best barb! i sayd one of the best....
So its up to you how you define "one of the best"
What meant were that im yet to loose to another barb more than
50% of the times. And im doing fine in most public games,
even when im VS. 2 or 3 or 5 or 6. Sure i loose some times,
but what did you expect??

Back to the math! i have no problems what so ever understanding the math.
I just have a hard time seeing how you could use math to find out when to use greif or beast...
For one to do the math it requires you know the ar of the attacker;
def, block, dr, life of the victim.
All beeing things we dont know and will never know!
Thats why i sayd you cant solve this question with pure math!
Its a question of estimations, and trying different setups!

But hey, im looking forward to seeing you doing the math!

SummerFun
So you dont think open wounds is important vs smiters? May I ask what smiters you duel that die in 5 seconds?
Obviously I expect "one of the best barbs in europe" to be able to kill sorcs without 2x ravens and 500% stack. Then again you dont sound like you're able to catch anyone decent anyway. My guess is that you lose to hammerdins/smiters/mages/necs/druids too lol.
I have a question though: exactly how is "best" defined when watching two meatbags whirl each other for 3 minutes until the most unlucky dies? If you think that bvb is based on something else than luck you should stop dueling useless pubs and try someone non-retarded with equal gear. What a worthless waste of time...
No offense but you sound just like the sore losers I encounter in every pub, who stands outside town crying cause they cant catch me with 0% fcr. "come here barb. i wanna try you. come. scared. i hab best barb cuz i kill all barbs. run". Zzzzzzzzzz...
I never even bother getting my ghettohammer since I know that they're all utterly worthless. There are like 10 barbs max in europe who knows how to duel hammerdins. I doubt you're one of them.


Although the calcs are somewhat complex I'll try to explain:
DONT USE ****TY DOOM VS SMITERS.

[Summerfun]

Seems like you are speaking to the wrong person!

Although the calcs are somewhat complex I'll try to explain:
DONT USE ****TY DOOM VS SMITERS.
i never uses doom! dont even have 1 on my barb!

All i sayd was, that he couldent expect to see some equation,
showing when to use beast over greif. It simply dont exist!

Regarding your issue about dueling casters, i never sayd that i did use all
that stacked res or dual ravens. just statet that it is a option!

Dueling smiters, i dont think OW is more important that pure dmg.
Remember this is if you were to use doom with greif or beast!
I myself allways uses greif AND beast. Therefor i dont have the problem.
But if i had to switch either of them for doom, beast would be the one!

My guess is that you lose to hammerdins/smiters/mages/necs/druids too lol.
Its funny how much you know about my barb!

I can tell you this, i have lost to one wind druid called "fasttipper" or something like that. smiters are no problem (unless its the type of smiter that has bugged exile and eth fort, combined with good skills and actualy knows how to play the char.)

Decent bone necros or better ones, playing defensive i tend to loose to!
remember im BvA so i dont have a very impressing leap.

Hammerdins are pretty much 50/50. sure i could just keep fireing guideds after them with widow maker, but my life is to short for that.
Hammerdins that dont actualy teleport ontop of me gives me a hard time!
Desync hammers tend to kill me very fast

[mastermind]

well in general hammerdins are hard for most barbs, the ones hat sit in a pool of hammers are easy u can do 2 things leap, to move them or GA there butts to oblivion.

But the ones that desync and tele - namelock are a different story they can kill u fast if u don't know what ur doing

hmm that the only problem with BvA is that u sacrifice on leap for defence as i also use a BvA but against caster it does not compare well to the BvC

[RetroStar]

Another random post by me.

OW is needed vs. smiters. You'll have a hard time hitting a smiter with high defense with 11k ar. Trying to do perfect triangles around them can be a pain in the butt and the longer the duel, the higher chance you'll get hit by a smite and getting life tap to trigger. Open wound also forces smiters to play offensive as they see their lifes slowly being chipped away, which is a good thing for ww.

Casters with ES. If you don't have OW, good luck bypassing their ES unless you got amazingly good WW that put them into fhr. If you don't have OW, watch them tele away from your attack and their mana pool quickly regenerate. OW bypasses ES and directly dmgs their life pool.

Hdins you won't hit these guys often when they desync or make hammerfields. So OW is the best killer compared to pure dmg.

The whole point of using a widow is for the OW to kick in or life tap. GA isn't used for pure dmg.

Anyway, I havn't read what most of you wrote so flame me this has been posted alrdy.

[jake007]

its pretty impossible to die. Further more, you could allways just drink some thawning pots for 100 momre stacked res and 85 cold res.

Another thing learned :D (I'm a newbie ^^)

[Summerfun]

Many people dont know that! but drinking thawning pots gives
you +100 cold res +10 max cold res for 20 sec.....
VERY usefull!

[mastermind]

Many people dont know that! but drinking thawning pots gives
you +100 cold res +10 max cold res for 20 sec.....
VERY usefull!

to add to that u can also do the same with antidote pots, good for taking on those psn nova necs which lower ur res.

i think it adds about the same amount of max res and and stacked res as drinking a thawning pot

[morotsjos]

Many people dont know that! but drinking thawning pots gives
you +100 cold res +10 max cold res for 20 sec.....
VERY usefull!
No it doesn't. It adds 50 cold res and 10 max res for 30 seconds.